Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

cancel ×

409 comments

fist post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883484)

fist post up fist up your post fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fist fucking post fist this post up your ass

Re:fist post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883488)

Please, mod this up : +1 Informative

Freedom is an illusion (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883486)

An interesting development has occurred. You see Slash-Dot is attempting to censor all those that disagree with them.

I have never crap flooded, tricked people into going to goatse.cx [goatse.cx] , done page widening or tried to break slash-code. But i now have terrible karma (no, not bad TERRIBLE) because i don't agree with everyone else and have a handle that contains both Microsoft and CLIT (cabal of logged in trolls).

I am a model Slash-Dot citizen because I have used Linux for years and now use Debian. However the hypocrite moderators complain about their rights being destroyed while at the same time not allowing alterintive views. However I was happy to post at -1.


However my precious liberty has now been stolen from me. I am no longer able to voice my opinion. I have been silenced.


Just as in communist china i am forced to use proxies to have my voice heard. Let us end this Dictatorship of Editors.
microsoft.CLIT

Re:Freedom is an illusion (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883512)

You could always start your own site... you could even use Slash!

Re:Freedom is an illusion (0, Offtopic)

orthogonal (588627) | about 12 years ago | (#3883552)

What's page widening, and why's it controversial? (I use a filtering proxy, so maybe I just don't see it.)

Call it an evening, Cowboy (-1)

RTFA Man (578488) | about 12 years ago | (#3883557)

This is your User Info page. There are thousands more, but this one is yours. You most likely are not so interested in yourself, and probably would be more interested in the Preferences links you see up top there, where you can customize Slashdot, change your password, or just click pretty widgets to kill time.

Karma: Terrible (mostly affected by moderation done to your comments)

Re:Freedom is an illusion (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883679)

If you have to say something negative, then say it anonymously. I only use my account
when I am saying something simple. When I feel like speaking my mind, I post as anonymous.

Aslo, when you post anonymous, your karma will not be removed. The only drawback is that you have
to use search the website for your posts, to see if you have any replies, and this is hard, specially
when there are alot of posts or when you make a lot of posts to one story.

I looked at your user profile and you are not a troll. You just say things you feel like. I really
wouldn't say things you said, because I might annoy moderators. Infact, there are a couple of guys
who just hate me for what I write, even the stuff that gets modded up.

In slashdot, even if you appeal to the moderators and you oppinions are valued by them, or if you
provide informative links or tell funny jokes, still, there is someone who will hate you and stalk you.

Post anonymously, that is what I do these days. Having an account is a real hastle.

-56ker

Yet another signature block [level80.co.uk]

Re:Freedom is an illusion (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883726)

The only problem is that they track your IP address so you have to use proxies.
It's a conspiracy, Big brother is watching you.heh.

Anyway the problem is that I speak my mind about everything.
I guess that somehow talking about my water cooling case is trolling.

Microsoft.CLIT

Saturday Night's Alright For Fighting (-1)

The Lyrics Guy (539223) | about 12 years ago | (#3883489)

I never thought I'd admit to liking Elton John but this is a great song.

Elton John - Saturday Night's Alright For Fighting

It's getting late have you seen my mates
Ma tell me when the boys get here
It's seven o'clock and I want to rock
Want to get a belly full of beer

My old man's drunker than a barrel full of monkeys
And my old lady she don't care
My sister looks cute in her braces and boots
A handful of grease in her hair

Don't give us none of your aggravation
We had it with your discipline
Saturday night's alright for fighting
Get a little action in

Get about as oiled as a diesel train
Gonna set this dance alight
`Cause Saturday night's the night I like
Saturday night's alright alright alright

Well they're packed pretty tight in here tonight
I'm looking for a dolly who'll see me right
I may use a little muscle to get what I need
I may sink a little drink and shout out "She's with me!"

A couple of the sound that I really like
Are the sounds of a switchblade and a motorbike
I'm a juvenile product of the working class
Whose best friend floats in the bottom of a glass

Re:Saturday Night's Alright For Fighting (1)

BlackHat (67036) | about 12 years ago | (#3883616)

You forgot to put the rest of the song in. Which is Elton yelling saturday 94 times while dry humping his stool.

Well.. (3, Interesting)

iONiUM (530420) | about 12 years ago | (#3883490)

but certain doctors seem to feel threatened by this sort of database.

If you just payed a TON of money to goto medical school, would you then want all your education flaunted all over a network of information? Probably not, it's the fact that you know something others don't is what makes you money. This applies to specific fields, and research as well.

Re:Well.. (1)

AvitarX (172628) | about 12 years ago | (#3883519)

I bet software like this is made illegal for anyone but doctors to use for that reason. My Grandfather was an optomitrist, that had his ability to distribute contact lenses taken away. Why? because the bonafied MDs lobbied to make it so only they could perscribe them.

Laser surgery is relativly easy to perform, and was invented as a CHEAP alternitive to glasses, yet it is locked up for use at huge prices by only MDs.

This technology could litterly be used for relativly accurate internet diagnosis (if the certainty was under a certain percent you simply refer to a "real doctor to prevent mis-diagnosis). Or you could have specialy trained people that simply do the diagnosing and streamline the medical prosses.

What I see happening is doctors lobby to be the only ones with access. Then instead of fearing it, and slamming it, they advertise it as an added service. spend less time working with a patient and charging MORE for the added service.

Re:Well.. (1)

SN74S181 (581549) | about 12 years ago | (#3883585)

Laser surgery is relativly easy to perform, and was invented as a CHEAP alternitive to glasses, yet it is locked up for use at huge prices by only MDs.


Somehow, I can't see people lining up at a kiosk in the shopping mall to get laser eye surgery. If it wasn't a regulated procedure, they'd have it as a sideline at the Piercing Pagoda. That would suck.

Re:Well.. (1)

AvitarX (172628) | about 12 years ago | (#3883658)

I didn't say unregulated, I just don't think you nead a full fledged Doctor that knows every nook and cranny of the eye to due it. I wouldn't think there would be a booth next to piercing pagoda, but I would imagine it could be as simple as getting a haircut. Call, make appointment, go in, drive home. And could easily cost around 500 dollors (less then an hour of time, no dangerous anestetic). Optomitrists want to be allowed to do this (hell , they want to be allowed to perscribe contacts again), but it will never happen due to the interests of eye-doctors.

The surgery was invented in Russia as a cost saving messure for the state run Medical offices, not as a way for the more wealthy to have easier lives.

Note: the comment about contacts may be state, and not national, and obviously I am USian.

Re:Well.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883705)

Proof?

Not that I disbelieve you, but proof? (articles,etc.)

Medical Doctors are Arrogant! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883695)

Remember Pasteur? He had two PHDs, in Physics and
Chemistry, but because he was not am MD they REFUSED to accept that microbes cause ilnesses and that they have to work in a sterile environment!

Lots of beople died because of their arrogance!

Re:Well.. (2)

Gaccm (80209) | about 12 years ago | (#3883587)

No, a doctor, plumber, electrician, etc, don't make money from knowing more, in all those fields a regular person could do the research and solve the problem themselves. The reason people pay them is their expertise. I know it's possible to replace the transmission on a car, and i could look up how to, doesn't mean that i could do it as well as someone with expierience. In research, top scientists get paid more money than newbies because they have years of expierience to back up all the knowledge that they got out of school.

Re:Well.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883645)

It's called convenience and part laziness. Why bother trying to learn something you may only use once. Then again, there's the other half of that, which says that the less you know, the more you rely on others, which would be bad.

Re:Well.. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883608)

I agree and disagree.

Disagree: The amount of money one pays to go to medical school varies hugely and has little to do with the elitism of the profession. Many state backed institutions are actually rather inexpensive. Schools range from the $30 and $40 grand a year for tuition/academic fees to a cumulative of $35 grand for all four years (for a standard 4 year program). $35 grand is inexpensive for 4 years of training. Most schools that force the premium are those in financial trouble, e.g. plugging financial debts through their grad programs.

Furthermore, what happens with the medical profession has little to do with other "specific fields". Other specific fields demand is limited by funding in their field and available resources. A grad program will only accept grad students with whatever grants (mostly government) and endowments allow to that insitution. (Facilities and size of program are an extension of that funding.) In the medical profession, demand far outstrips supply, yet supply is not ramped up so that there is nearly always a doctor shortage.

This mandated demand is why physician salaries were so high in the 70s and 80s. The only reason they stabilized and have NOT gone up is because of the HMO system, not because of competition within the profession.

Agree: It's a profession, at every stage. Doctors are a strictly controlled supply. Tell that to your doctor or a medical student, and they'll throw a fit (e.g. "I save/improve a life, I should get $120,000+ a year for all my trouble in helping you and the shit I went through in residency, college, and med school..." (the "trouble" is professional hazing and has little to do with training qualified physicians, as well as forced all nighters as right of passage). To take the MCATs (limits on number times test is taken). To apply (monetary and limits on applications). To get in--about 50% of a medical school class is either undergrad alumni of that same school, have a parent or sibling related to the institution, spent heavy time in some health field related activity to the school, or is from an even more deemed elite insitution.

The profession is also tightly controlled as to how many medical schools are accredited to give out MDs or ODs. Combine that with limitations on class size. All this is clearly documented year after year. Occasionally, the AMA will come out and say something like there will be a doctor surplus or whatever in X number of years, but the reality is, they have a rather skewed viewpoint. Not anyone can waltz in and become an MD, thankfully and obviously, nor should they be able to, but still, well qualified people are turned away. 15,000 people apply to single programs with a class size of 150 reguarly. Half of those applicants are *over* qualified to get in.

Some of you may be saying "But doctors are worth/deserve it." Yes, they are. But the fact still remains that the *right* to save your life is given and a near monopoly restricted by the government and profession. The ability to save a life is something achieved and separate for which the opportunity, that right, is not market generated.

Re:Well.. (2)

PacoTaco (577292) | about 12 years ago | (#3883609)

If you just payed a TON of money to goto medical school, would you then want all your education flaunted all over a network of information?

Also consider malpractice lawsuits. If a physician badly misdiagnoses something and the correct answer is listed in a widely available database, that could mean big trouble for the doctor in court.

Re:Well.. (2)

1010011010 (53039) | about 12 years ago | (#3883666)


Boo. Hoo.

Perhaps the doctor should look in that same database...

Re:Well.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883625)

If you just payed a TON of money to goto medical school, would you then want all your education flaunted all over a network of information? Probably not, it's the fact that you know something others don't is what makes you money. This applies to specific fields, and research as well.

That may be true, too, but I think the real concern is on the part of abortionists. There have been a number of cases of them getting stalked and killed. There was some controversy over a web site that listed their pictures and addresses, but I don't really remember the outcome.

Liberty in our Lifetime [freestateproject.org]

FREE Medical Education (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883631)

In all Communist countries Medical Education was
free (in many of these countries still is)
In Cuba a medical student DOES NOT PAY A PENNY
FOR HIS/HER EDUCATION!

Re:FREE Medical Education (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883691)

Free education doesn't trump no food and a savage, oppressive regime, asshole.

Re:FREE Medical Education (1)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | about 12 years ago | (#3883721)

In Cuba a medical student DOES NOT PAY A PENNY FOR HIS/HER EDUCATION!

Yes. That is why *so many* students are flocking to Cuba to obtain their meducal education.

Too bad for MD's. (3, Funny)

Skyshadow (508) | about 12 years ago | (#3883493)

Things like this are why I firmly believe in having no discernible useful function within my organization other than to slack and criticise others -- lets see some computer database duplicate *that*.

Re:Too bad for *all* geeks (3, Funny)

Tablizer (95088) | about 12 years ago | (#3883547)

(* Things like this are why I firmly believe in having no discernible useful function within my organization other than to slack and criticise others -- lets see some computer database duplicate *that*. *)

In a recent slashdot forum on an AI topic, I concluded that it is easier to automate "rational" things than it is irrational [1] things, like marketing and PHB's.

Thus, techies will probably be automated out of a job before PHB's and sales. (That is if H1B's don't do it first.)

Geeks are Doomed! Eat, drink, and skydive from space, for tomarrow you are unlayable gutter meat.

[1] I don't know whether they are irrational, or just very hard or impossible to ascertain the rules for.

Re:Too bad for *all* geeks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883630)

Your conclusion is wrong.

Automation of rational things always misses then irrational aspects that yet to be rationally discerned. Techies will always have that to do, not to mention new areas of expansion irrational things generate. After all, an observation that leads to a hypothesis is not a scientific fact but that of intuition that it may be, hence the term "discover." You can't rationalize discoveries until you automate the irrational, ad naseum.

Re:Too bad for MD's. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883548)

You mean, you want to be a manager?

Information is power (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883494)

If you control it, you have power. It's only human nature that many people fear losing power. When books were easily printable, and the masses began to read, you don't think the people who had that ability earlier felt threatened?

Re:Information is power (-1)

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM (537317) | about 12 years ago | (#3883610)

I still feel threatened by the masses beginning to read. I have a chronic brain disorder preventing me from reading. So I have car accidents often because I can't understand road signals. I type with my feet because I'm blind. Please can I borrow three quarters to buy a bag of chips.

Wow... expert systems. (0)

Astrorunner (316100) | about 12 years ago | (#3883496)

What a bround greaking idea.

Expert systems are *so* 1980s.

Re:Wow... expert systems. (1)

igbrown (79452) | about 12 years ago | (#3883538)

"But now Weed believes his newest innovation, the Problem Knowledge Coupler, is finally ready for mainstream use."

No kidding. This is not really an innovation by any stretch. Rule-based diagnostic systems such as MYCIN [hw.ac.uk] first appead in the '70s!

And... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883612)

So are jaded asshole remarks...

Database vs Doctor (1)

jkastner (581372) | about 12 years ago | (#3883499)

A Ph.D/M.D. colleague of mine one remarked that a doctor is nothing more than a walking database. You tell him your symptoms, he'll look up the possible problems in his head and give you a potential solution. That being said, it is only natural that some doctors might be threatened by the idea they can be so easily replaced.

Re:Database vs Doctor (1)

varak_mathews (592911) | about 12 years ago | (#3883563)

I think the definition extends more than a walking database. A database that is constantly learning ( probably thats the reason they are always "practicing" ). Which I believe will be impossible to replace. I would like to see this kind of applications are used as on automated-opinion ( something like a second opinion ).

Re:Database vs Doctor (2)

Sheetrock (152993) | about 12 years ago | (#3883646)

Diagnosis is only one of the functions doctors perform. A database has no humanity; how can it console you if it determines you have HIV or cancer? A database does not have five senses; a doctor will always be able to observe at least as much if not more (although I'm a bit hazy on what a doctor would taste to make a diagnosis). Databases are only as good as the information contained within and the algorithms that show the likelihood of a particular ailment; how they would have determined someone had Lyme's disease before its existence was common knowledge is a mystery.

No, make sure you tell your colleague doctors are more than databases. This is a tool, probably capable of making doctors more effective but not a replacement.

Re:Database vs Doctor (3, Interesting)

Turing Machine (144300) | about 12 years ago | (#3883711)

Doctors used to taste urine to diagnose diabetes. No kidding!

There was also a well-developed technique of thumping parts of your body while listening with a stethoscope. A skilled practicioner could learn a surprising about about what was going on inside your body from this (very valuable in the days when there were no CAT scans, or even X-rays, and exploratory surgery meant almost certain death from massive infection).

New diseases would presumably be entered in the database the same way that they get into the wetware databases that doctors use now. Patients present with symptoms that don't quite fit anything they know about. They try a treatment, then another, then another.... Over time the pattern of symptoms gets recognized as a new disease, and the treatment becomes standardized.

The difference is that with an expert system this process could be much, much faster than it is with the old-fashioned word of mouth method, or even with journal publications.

There is other problems with this sort of thing... (4, Interesting)

os2fan (254461) | about 12 years ago | (#3883501)

Is that people tend to live the symtoms that their medical complaint suggests. That's why you have to run blind and double blind tests, to weed out people who unconciously fake what they know to be the symptoms.

Something like this could comprimise the blind tests.

[On the other hand, a lot of subtle bugs in software come from analysing the blind elements. Ie, trying to understand subtle behaviour.]

Not just threatened... (1)

Thenomain (537937) | about 12 years ago | (#3883502)

I'm sure they're not just threatened, but some could be legitimately concerned that people will take this diagnostic database as some kind of authoritative source.

No, they shouldn't; it should be treated just like a book, but I'm just counting the days before someone sues the database for "giving them bogus information". And I'm counting the hours until we all become hypocondriacs.

If I were a doctor, that's what I'd be concerned about.

Re:Not just threatened... (4, Insightful)

dattaway (3088) | about 12 years ago | (#3883524)

Doctors are just technicians that happen to work on people. They are no more perfect than the grease monkey at the car dealership. Using a computerized database of information to research the very complex organisms we are is just common sense and is perhaps why computers became popular in the first place. Sure, some doctors will manage to make mistakes using a tool like this, just as some high school kids still can't seem to use a calculator correctly.

Suing for bogus information? One always has to consider the source of information. A dabase like this can be considered only as a helpful tool. Tools help find a working solution, but it takes experience to make it happen. A good doctor is someone who is responsible for using his tools properly, not pushing buttons.

Re:Not just threatened... (1)

EvanED (569694) | about 12 years ago | (#3883577)

>>They are no more perfect than the grease monkey at the car dealership.

And the grease monkeys even have computers to help them...

(Second thoughts: though I suppose their computers are more information gathering than problem solving, so maybe the computers in cars are more analogous to MRI scans and stuff like that than they would be to this...)

Re:Not just threatened... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883686)

Also, the job of the grease monkey is usually not to fix things. It is to replace something. Change the oil, replace the ignition module, put in a new engine block, etc. Whereas doctors cannot just order a new part. (With the exception of the odd organ transplant, of course.)

Re:Not just threatened... (2)

Turing Machine (144300) | about 12 years ago | (#3883731)

Doctors are just technicians that happen to work on people

In the John Varley "Eight Worlds" fictional universe, automated medicine has become so perfect that (e.g.) movie stuntpeople actually do get shot in the head or leap off a building. They're modded such that their pain centers are turned off, and they have replacement parts like titanium skulls with shock-absorbing mechanisms. As long your skull doesn't get crushed, and as long as they get you in the tank in time, the autodoc can fix anything

In one of the stories a small boy is watching a human medico fix up an accident victim using the automated equipment. "Think you might like to be a medico when you grow up, son?" "No thanks. My teacher told me I need to go to college so I can get a good job."

Heh.

Re:Not just threatened... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883644)

You do realize that most doctors "authoritative sources" are books and magazines? You do realize that most physicians do not "mix the bag" and do both practice and research; there are exceptions, but the vast majority are one or the other.

btw, doctors are sued. A company of a database being sued would be nothing new or threatening that would inhibit propagation of a database as a source.

Trans. From the Host Geek Pt. 1 by poopbot (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883509)

Credits: BankOfAmerica_ATM

SUBJECT: GREAT STOCK OPPORTUNITY!!! help me Get Big Brands on eBay I DON'T KNOW WHERE I AM! PENTIUM III CPU's IN STOCK
Begin Fwded Message:

If someone is listening out there, HELP! I'm trapped, and I don't know where I am. I know this sounds fucked up, but I started reading about this ATM 73.9GB SCSI SCA-2 LVD 3.5 X 1.6 80-PIN 5.7MS 4MB CACHE 10,000RPM HITACHI HARD DRIVE - $269.00 - only 1 left! ITEM#... DK31CJ-72MC http://www.hardwarest.com/product.asp?sku=DK31CJ%2 D72MC+&dept_id=7 online. Yeah, not like withdrawal or anything, but this was an actual ATM, and it was alive, and posting messages to this educational website that I visit from time to time.

Pretty soon, I realized that not only was this ATM visiting the same site I liked, but (believe it or not) this ATM was conveniently located near me!!!!! is to take advantage of the current climate in the telecommunications industry!!!! In every industry downturn, opportunities can present themselves for a small aggressive company like GloboPhone to develop relations with corporations that have networks, infrastructure, and personnel but lack sufficient customers. This is GloboPhone's advantage.

I don't have to tell you, this was no ordinary ATM. Actually this ATM had the power to transfer its consciousness into your mind. I know it sounds ridiculus, but...it used the magnetic strip to actually go inside your mind. Well like any computer lover I am always wanting to try the new technology, so If you are ready to become the biggest man you can be, then order your supply of Magna-RX+ today! See for yourself, what thousands of satisfied men (and their lovers) have already discovered: Magna-RX+ is the world's #1 Best-Selling Penis Enlargement Formula for one very simple reason: IT WORKS AND NOTHING ELSE CAN COMPARE! I went to where the ATM told me to (his inclosure) and swiped my card.

I blacked out and when I awoke, I was in a new place. Yeah, that's right, the ATM had actually taken ahold of my body. It had done stuff like buy a bunch of magazines and alot of candy. It was like, he and I were different partitions on my brain's hard disk,. Anyway, he took control of my body in order to topple this great conspiracy called Project Faustois-an who doesn't want to stick it to the man? This is when all the trouble started...

So now, after a few motnths of letting him use my body (although I quit for awhile) he's gone and done this to me. Normally I "wake up" from his using my body in a convenience store near my house, and it's no trouble getting home. But this time I'm trapped in We will be on the East Coast later this year.
---------------
- Tuesday June 24, 6pm - 7:30pm


Apple Store at South Coast Plaza, 3333 Bear St., Costa Mesa, CA 92626
714-424-6331


Mac Experts, 2300 Lincoln Blvd, Santa Monica, CA 90405
310-581-1500
---------------
- Tuesday July 9, 6pm - 7:30pm


Apple Store at Fashion Island, 367 Newport Center Drive, Newport Beach, CA 92660
949-729-4433
---------------
- Tuesday July 16, 6pm - 7:30pm


Apple Store at Northridge Fashion Center, 9301 Tampa Ave., Northridge, CA 91324
818-709-2253
---------------
- Tuesday July 23, 6pm - 7:30pm

Apple Store at Glendale Galleria, 2148 Glendale Galleria, Glendale, CA 91210
818-502-8310
trapped in a strange place. Not a good place either. This makes me think of like, 2001 or something. But like creepy. See it's all this white under fluorescent lights and I can't see any windows or even doors. All that's in here is this old-ass terminal. Man, what the fucked happened? Then I remembered: I "picked up" the ATM on my way home from work, but I forgot that it was the fourth Thursday of the motnh. Usualy the day I host D & D for the guys. The ATM must have ben there in my body when my frends came over. Wnoder what happened then?

Some point later, I'm here in this white room. It's scary at first, I know they're watching me. All I have in this room is this computer terminal. This has got to be the Project Fastus that's what the ATM has been trying to get inside all along. So I guess it's great that I'm (and he???) is insid, it's like I'm in the frickin' Death Star or something, but I don't see any garbage chutes or anything.

After a few hours of clicking through on thiscomputer terminal (looks like they're running some old-ass *NIX : ) these two guys in suits come into my room from my room. Now it's serious.

They drag me into a room full of all this really sciency equipment-you know, blooping and bleeping gadgets, big cold noises from the air conditioner. I thought I was in 2001 for a second, except instead of HAL, there's this big bald guy. He's red and pretty sweaty despite the massive air conditioning. He barks a few words to the suited guys and they go away.

"So you've been harboring our little ATM problem," says the man nonchalantly. I don't say anything (I'm nervous). He restarts his spiel a few seconds later, this time with a bit of veins comung out of his neck.

"Joel Shane Cross. That is your name, isn't it?" The guy went from good cop to bad cop pretty quick-which was really disturbing. I was already out of sorts with reality, waking up in nowheresville, this odd place. He just kept talking, and I started to get scared, and actually kinda angry. "We know all about you, Mr. Cross. We know that you've been allowing the ATM to inhabit your body for some time now. You've been mislead, Mr. Cross. Working for the wrong people."

"I belive the ATM!" I told him, stickin to my guns while Istuck it to the man.

"You'll learn in time," the red and sweaty man said it from his mouth, but the noise of his voice was all over the place. And then he was gone. Not by turning around, by like, vanishing. And the sciency room was gone too, replaced by the big white place I was stuck in. I don't know where I am. But this shit is If you are ready to become the biggest man you can be, then order your supply of Magna-RX+ today! See for yourself, what thousands of satisfied men (and their lovers) have already discovered: Magna-RX+ is the world's #1 Best-Selling Penis Enlargement Formula for one very simple reason: IT WORKS AND NOTHING ELSE CAN COMPARE!
crazy. If someone gets this message...please help.


END TRANSMISSION.

- poopbot: because even your grandmother can use lunix

weed problem ? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883511)

oh, it's 4 am.

used a damned large paintbrush didn't he? (3, Insightful)

Em Emalb (452530) | about 12 years ago | (#3883513)

from article:

"But, according to Cross, the neurologist who originally diagnosed the case as an REM sleep disorder had a very different reaction to the use of the software. When the plumber and his wife handed that doctor the PKC printouts, he shuffled them, left the room, and, Cross says, "returned with a very hostile, angry disposition." Viewing the results as computer-generated quackery, he refused to back down from his original diagnosis."

I read the article. This was the only example I saw...I'd say that's painting a very broad generalization. I also happen to know many doctors that EMBRACE technology.

Sounds to me like this was just one guy he was pissed because his diagnosis was proven wrong, and (like anyone) didn't like it.

Other than that, decent read.

Re:used a damned large paintbrush didn't he? (2, Informative)

elmegil (12001) | about 12 years ago | (#3883523)

Doctors that have their professional judgement questioned by patients are FREQUENTLY hostile. Many of them suffer from expert's disease: "how can you possibly have a valid opinion about this matter, you're not the expert, I am!" Which is not to say such attitudes are acceptable, only that they're prevalent.

Re:used a damned large paintbrush didn't he? (2, Interesting)

EvanED (569694) | about 12 years ago | (#3883581)

A perfectly good example is in Richard Feynman's "What Do You Care What Other People Think?" Feynman's girlfriend (this is the awsomest love story I've ever heard, real or fictional) was misdiagnosed. Twice. The first time, Feynman called the doctor on it, but the doctor didn't listen.

Re:used a damned large paintbrush didn't he? (1)

Jason Pollock (45537) | about 12 years ago | (#3883582)

But the good ones _love_ it when the patient comes in knowing what's wrong. If you can say, "I had this last year, the doctor gave me this and it went away." Helps shortcut the whole thing.

Jason

Re:used a damned large paintbrush didn't he? (2, Insightful)

ergo98 (9391) | about 12 years ago | (#3883618)

The same holds true of many professions : Have you ever had two "expert" programmers with diametrically opposed viewpoints who have each other's word used against each other? The outcome can be very ugly.

An M.D. is just a Mechanic + 8 years of school (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883693)

My wife has several medical problems. Each successive doctor would examine her for 1 fucking thing they "thought" it could be. When that test came back negative they'd send her on her way, "Nothing wrong here my diagnosis was negative". Pathetic fucks in my opinion. After seeing over 20 doctors a fucking eye doctor caught the problem that she said is realitively common and should have been caught by at least 1/2 the doctors (specialists for the most part).

In the end it's all about some asshole's ego because they (99.99%) lost the ability to care long ago. So in my opinion fuck all doctors because I trust my mechanic more than doctors.

Re:used a damned large paintbrush didn't he? (2)

(H)elix1 (231155) | about 12 years ago | (#3883662)

The The truth is even more frightening... most physicians, or heath care providers if you want to use a more derogatory term are some of the most technical luddites out there. I've worked for companies where they gave doctors PC's, another company gave the doctors handhelds -- all with software that really gives you a leg up on helping the patient. Most never even turned them on. As a younger crowed moves in, it is not quite as bad as the boomers practicing.

The real training most folks get for the MD is not hard-core sciences. Sure, there is some... but most of the training in the people skills. A lot of time is spent learning how to interview and deduce what is wrong. (minor rant) The liability issues have not helped things any, but that is another issue. I suspect the I'm never wrong bit is due more to lawsuits.

Re:used a damned large paintbrush didn't he? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883675)

You didn't go to med school, did you?

Doctors use technology when it suits them. Palms, ipaqs, patient database management systems, etc. They like their laptops. They like their whiz band diagnostic tool or anything that helps visualize a solution. Anything to make their life easier. They are technicians.

That's not the same as challenging their professional practice and ability to pull in 6 figures a year. The socialization of the physicians world is still well-entrenched in the old days before they accepted scienitific dogma as their own (you do realize their embrace of true scientific hypothesis testing is not yet 100 years old, right?).

Only recently have medical schools even included basic doctor-patient interactions in their curriculum. Patient autonomy is still not yet a fully accepted idea in the profession.

EMH (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883515)

Now, if they can just give this database a holographic body, and a little personality, we'll have Emergency Medical Holograms ready to go. Maybe they can even get around to giving them a name!

Re:EMH (1)

martyn s (444964) | about 12 years ago | (#3883545)

How about "Joe"? I like the sound of that one.

one of many professions to be threatened (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883518)

its only a matter of time... computers will be able to do everything better than humans eventually. its been shown that expert systems can outperform doctors in certain areas already, this one should be no different.

this is nothing but good for the patient, itll lead to cheaper and more accurate diagnoses.

Re:one of many professions to be threatened (1)

SN74S181 (581549) | about 12 years ago | (#3883620)

Actually, there's still a substantial body of activities (most things, actually) that computers still can't do. [walmart.com] The field of Artificial Intelligence as hyped in the 60's, 70's, and 80's has pretty much imploded.

It blows me away, BTW that I was able to link to Dreyfus at WallMart. I doubt if any of Minsky's blather is that widely available.

Re:one of many professions to be threatened (1)

martyn s (444964) | about 12 years ago | (#3883710)

True, AI as hyped in the 60's, 70's and 80's *has* pretty much imploded. So has the "dot com" hype. Does that mean the internet isn't *really* so important or revolutionary anymore?

Personally, I believe that the direction with the most potential for AI is using nanotech to emulate the human brain, or any brain. I believe that when convincing and effective AI is finally developed, that this AI will be more hardware than software. That it won't involve "programming". It will learn, not be programmed. Of course, it's possible to write a program that "learns" using traditional hardware, but this is just my unsubstantiated hunch.

But on the other hand, anything that has neurons, and is structured like a human brain will likely be called 'intelligence' not 'artificial intelligence'.

Indeed (0, Troll)

PhysicsGenius (565228) | about 12 years ago | (#3883521)

This kind of database is the kind of positive effect that technology can have on daily life. Now more than ever in today's busy world we need our doctors to have the latest information about what really works and what really doesn't.

Which is presumably why these naysayers are against the system. It correctly lists herbal and other alternative remedies as being both cheap and effective, kind of the Linux of the medical world. The AMA, with its vested interest in expensive, proprietary medicine, is totally opposed to any body of facts, electronic or otherwise, that would expose them for the money-grubbing reductionists that they are.

The only way to fight back to make this information widely known and of course take herbal remedies and perform chiropractic regularly to maintain a balanced chi.

Re:Indeed (4, Insightful)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | about 12 years ago | (#3883537)

Even herbal treatments in the absense of a proper amount of research can be troublesome. People tend to let themselves think that because it is natural, it can't be dangerous.

Not true (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883551)

That's the beauty of the Natural Way. Your body knows what it needs. When it is replete with healing essence your desire to ingest more of Gaea's bounty will subside. There is no danger of overdose.

Re:Not true (1)

SN74S181 (581549) | about 12 years ago | (#3883632)

And then when you die from lack of efficacious treatment, Gaia absorbs your body as fertilizer and the marvelous Cycle of Life continues.

Re:Not true (1)

caca_phony (465655) | about 12 years ago | (#3883640)

A list of natural things:

cyanide
uranium
opium
hemlock
radon
tobacco
nightshade

Re:Not true (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883653)

Don't forget the porcupine foot/neck massager!

Re:Indeed (0, Redundant)

caca_phony (465655) | about 12 years ago | (#3883624)

PhysicsGenius, how ever do you do it? You are one of the few folks here who can troll without getting modded down (true trolling, not just flamebate and crapflooding). Congrats.

Regarding medical info databases, they generally can give a list of probable diagnoses and need a little human common sense to help them out. Expert systems generally suck at common sense.

Time for Doctors to embrace the techology (2, Insightful)

H3XA (590662) | about 12 years ago | (#3883526)

Doctors need to think of this as a tool and not as a threat to their job. Just because I can try to diagnose my problems online dosn't mean I don't see a doctor. I am glad when I visit the doctor and he uses the computer or medical books to check the current best treatments or for other conditions with similar symptons - this shows the doctor is not oblivious to the fact they can't know everything.

As long as the software is properly regulated, just as docotors are, then there really shouldn't be a problem. The doctors can use the software to "help" and then make the final decision on the best course of action, as the computer cannot do that.

- HeXa

Re:Time for Doctors to embrace the techology (1)

scrote-ma-hote (547370) | about 12 years ago | (#3883626)

Yes, you may go and see a doctor, but what about the people who don't. They just assume what they see is correct. The analogy to a mechanic is a fair one, in that not only are doctors a database, but they have experience. You could find two diseases with similar symptoms, one serious, one not, and pick the non-serious one, and not go to the doctor.

An example of this is costochondritis and a heart attack. Costochondritis gives chest pains similar to a heart attack. What happens if the patient thinks they have one and dies.

OK it's good for those rare diseases, but it must be used correctly. The internet is already too much of a minefield of inaccuracies for medical information.

Re:Time for Doctors to embrace the techology (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883725)

I DO NOT WANT THE DAMN INFORMATION OR SOFTWARE REGULATED.

It's not regulated now. Why should it be just because it is in a MORE useful form?

You sound like the damn RIAA and MPAA. I buy a CD, and when I stick it in my MP3 player, they throw a fit.

So somone takes Robinson's, linearizes it, and now only doctor's are allowed to have access? Good lord.

What you say is essentially that same as "It's fine as long as their monopoly on a profession is not undermined". Doctors are great and deserve fair compensation, but doctors do not deserve a monopoly on access to health information or software usage, esp. when such non-personal/non-private information is paid for by taxpayers dollars (most medical reserach comes from government funded grants; most residencies rely heavily on Medicare and Medicaid payin; most hospitals were constructed from tax dollars).

I do not want another Intellectual Property fight. Music, patents, movies, and now medical databases? NO, NO, NO. It's fair if the database company wants to be paid, but such a database should NOT be regulated to only MDs in the field. There would be no check for such information to be correct. And physician's have a sorry record for verifying their data.

Example: I have to go to a doctor, dish out $140 twice a year, just to renew a prescription on a drug I know I will have to take for the rest of my life. I don't do that, I die. And no, they can't be sued, based on the practice of law in every state (common law, regarding the right of a physician to turn away a patient, even one that needs help and has had up to then continued contact with (known as continuity in the med profession). And no, unless I'm an MD, I cannot do it myself even though I know more than my doctor does about my disease family.

Now you want to give them more through regulation? Enough is enough. One of the many reasons why health care in this country costs so much is because of the strict regulation to enhance doctors (and drug companies) entering the profession. I don't want the information or software also to be restricted because you're scared what might happen. *I'm* the one scared because I know *will* happen.

Oh help us all (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883528)

next thing you know they will make a walking reference database for all things computer, programming, networking, or database related. Ok look if you see anything labeled "Howto" delete it, we can beat this. (/sarcastic_humor off) Walking database helps you help yourself, knowledge never hurts when properly applied, but face it people will still go to doctors, just as they still hire database admins, network engineers, EE's, or CS's.

Confidence vs. Arrogance (4, Insightful)

Roarkk (303058) | about 12 years ago | (#3883534)

After reading this article, I am reminded of a good friend of mine, an M.D./Ph.D. student at Duke University, and some of the stories she tells me. I've heard of doctors that take advise even from an intern as a threat, much less advice from a computer.

The doctors that dismiss this type of aid out of hand are suffering from arrogance of the worst sort... they are dismissing a tool that can be used to further their patients health.

A person who has confidence in their own abilities can evaluate a tool and use the results as they see fit. While they need not use the tool as a crutch, they will use it as it is meant; as an aid to diagnosis.

Re:Confidence vs. Arrogance (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883732)

Unfortunately, you are talking about a subset of a profession. iow, still the profession within itself--doctors who will evaluate the tool versus doctors who will not evaluate the tool. Still within the professional context of doctors, isn't it?

If they were truly confident, they wouldn't mind competition and be advocating lower the barriers to qualified access to drugs. They don't, because it hurts their bottom line.

MDs ARE poor diagnosticians (2, Insightful)

gelfling (6534) | about 12 years ago | (#3883535)

They hate this because like everyone else they hate to be proven wrong let alone QUESTIONED. OTOH HMOs love this stuff because it represents one less person they have to hire.

Human Factor Still Valuable (1, Insightful)

dmwst30 (463874) | about 12 years ago | (#3883543)

I think the idea of a public medical knowledge database is an idea long overdue. However, IMHO, there is no substituting the medical doctor's long-time familiarity with both real-life cases of these symptoms/diagnosis/diseases and much of the data contained within such a database.
Also, dealing with a human being rather than a database can be rather reassuring in and of itself. Having a doctor confidently tell you a prognosis and treatment for it is alot more reassuring than seeing even those same words on a screen or piece of paper.

Re:Human Factor Still Valuable (2, Interesting)

flonker (526111) | about 12 years ago | (#3883584)

I personally would like it if both the doctor and database agreed on the prognosis.

It would also be interesting to add some sort of artificial learning to the system. Recognizing patterns such as, "people at this clinic seem more likely to display these symptoms, which means that cancer based on the local environment is a strong possibility." or "This patient has a genetic predisposition towards disthymic disorder, and now seems to be showing some of the symptoms. Normally, it would be diagnosed as a sleep disorder, but with the genetic predisposition in mind, we should be weary of that."

ObDisclaimer: IANAMD

Slashdot weiners! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883546)

I wish I were a Gay Slashdot Editor,
That is what I'd really like to be!
Cuz if I were a Gay Slashdot Editor,
Everyone would want to ass-rape me!!

It's all just EGO (4, Interesting)

erroneus (253617) | about 12 years ago | (#3883553)

As the article points out clearly and several times, doctors are (usually) humans. This means they have personality traits that affect they way they accomplish their work.

In this case, it's ego. Of course no one wants to see a printout handed to them by someone who isn't a professional in the field saying "hey, this computer said you're wrong!" For chrissakes!! I wouldn't either. Of course there should be some level of interest and consession by the professional to review the information and test its validity. A doctor with an ego problem should be avoided just like a network engineer/administrator who thinks he already knows everything he needs to know about any given subject.

So yeah, it's fun to take the immortals down a notch back to Earth reminding them that they're still human. But it should also serve as a reminder to anyone who lives in the ever-growing world of science and technology (this does include medical science) that there is always something new to learn and never to stop challenging the "facts" that have been layed out before us. Oddly, there is no "spontaneous generation" as was once suspected and those "wandering stars" (aka, planets) aren't like other stars for more reason than the fact that they don't move like the rest.

And of course, let us never forget that "science" isn't about proving anything "right" so much as it is about proving things to be wrong. It's never easy to know the truth. But we get closer every time we eliminate that which is untrue.

it seems to me (2, Insightful)

Megahurts (215296) | about 12 years ago | (#3883554)

This could be an extremely useful tool. Why any good doctor would be opposed to it is beyond me. A truly professional doctor should be completely willing to defer to specialist or some sort of well-researched body when he is any less than 100% certain of his own work. Really, the only doctors I could imagine this would hurt are the bad doctors.

Re:it seems to me (1)

ergo98 (9391) | about 12 years ago | (#3883657)

It's important to remember that on the opposite side are people passionately defending their system just as stubbornly, and it's very likely (because such is human nature) that when they punch in the facts and it spits out a grossly incorrectly, possibly even dangerous, diagnosis that it's quickly deleted. I doubt the doctor in question had a problem with a computer system doubting his findings, but rather just personal pride getting in the way when someone made him question his own ability: You can find the exact same reaction in some members of any knowledge based field. Tell that Linux guy at work that you think he's way in left field and has got it all wrong, because that's what you read on an AOL board...

Expert systems have been oversold for decades, and if you believed the predictions 20 years ago you would be sure that any knowledge based career would have been long obsoleted by such systems.

Most visits easy to automate (5, Funny)

Tablizer (95088) | about 12 years ago | (#3883565)

Most doctor visits that my kids and I have been to follow a rather simple algorithm:

1. Get swabs of patient mouth and ass
2. Perscribe patient antibiotics and
Codene.
3. Politely send patient away
4. Send swabs to lab
5. Play golf

Re:Most visits easy to automate (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883664)

hopefully they swab the mouth *before* the ass..... or better up that dosage of antibiotics......

Even if. (2)

Renraku (518261) | about 12 years ago | (#3883574)

Even if that information were detailed and free for anyone with an internet connection, part of going to medical school is to learn to accept responsibility. Any fool can read a car manual and learn how to fix his car, but if he is wrong and breaks the car, who has to pay to fix it? Also, do you think that us non-doctors can prescribe medication for ourselves? Doctors should not feel threatened at all.

Second opinion (2)

Tablizer (95088) | about 12 years ago | (#3883583)


If I want a second opinion, do I leave the Oracle office and drive to Sybase?

Attention Geeks. (1)

sinserve (455889) | about 12 years ago | (#3883601)

Don't celebrate yet. Doctors are being replaced by huge/costly databases, your average /. nerd OTOH,
will be replaced by a /small/ shell script .. not even bash, but the minimal old sh!
You too trolls, you are being replaced by a one liner, written in a turing incomplete configuration
file language, no doubt.

One doctor's view (5, Insightful)

TheMohel (143568) | about 12 years ago | (#3883614)

As a practicing physician (and software engineer since 1978, so don't get in a hissy fit), I have very little use for the program. Not that I don't find the idea of an expert system for diagnosis to be interesting, but it's clinically useless for most of us.

It may come as a surprise to most people, but diagnosis is not the hard part of medicine. Oh, sure, there are the occasional wierdies like the one in the article (and then I'd love to have the program), but mostly the diagnosis is either (a) not remotely in doubt, (b) irrelevant to the treatment (I don't care WHICH virus gave you diarrhea, I just care about hydration and mental status, and I don't need a computer program to help there), or (c) not something I need right now.

Clinical medicine is not mostly about diagnosis. It's mostly about disease management, triage, clinical efficiency, relationship building, and a huge dose of having to deal with every person that walks in the door, regardless of IQ, regardless of psychiatric diagnosis, and regardless of what I personally would like to do with them. Where excatly some peculiar expert system fits in with all that is something of a mystery to me.

(Oh, and surgical medicine is all of the above, plus time-critical eye-hand coordination, plus the routine inability to diagnose anything until you're in the OR, and the expert system is stone useless about then.)

New and better tools to solve problems that don't come up very often are interesting, but hardly something that will revolutionize medicine.

Re:One doctor's view (1)

frankmu (68782) | about 12 years ago | (#3883674)

Thanks for that wonderful observation. As a fellow doc, i can vouch for that. most of the time, i can get most of my diagnosis in the few minutes of chatting with a patient. i think it would be nice to have, but it be as another tool to broaden our .

besides, as someone else pointed out, we are getting "expert systems" in the form of managed care. you should all take a look at your insurances... those with HMO's will be under some sort of "guidelines", and can only receive medicine and treatment that the HMO can get in bulk. kinda like shopping at costco.

also, as an ob, sometimes those babies just won't let me reach for the computer to make a decision for me...

Re:One doctor's view (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883690)

I've started to view GPs more as gateways to specialists - it doesn't take something particluarly weird to throw a general practitioner, whereas the specialist will recognise it at a glance.

You illustrate the physician's view quite positively, but I can't help but feel that augmenting a GP's ability to diagnose accurately would be a good thing.

They are right to be afraid... (2, Insightful)

eyepeepackets (33477) | about 12 years ago | (#3883628)

...because their expertise is knowledge based and any knowledge based profession is vulnerable to the same thing that is currently happening with the programming profession: It's being shipped to other countries in order to lower costs while raising profits.

For example, a hospital/HMO combo needs to watch costs, so has local technicians to do the local non-surgical stuff. Information on the patient is interpreted by an MD in India for low bucks, and the local technicians do the final, hands-on work if needed. Only time the hospital/HMO needs a "real" doctor/surgeon is when the patient really needs that level of hands-on work.

Hospitals/HMOs stand to make much bigger profits from this scenario and you can bet your doctor's bottom dollar they know it.

I repeat: Any and every profession which is knowledge based is vulnerable to this type of exporting.

"Sorry kid, I hate giving good people bad news." -- The Matrix

How does (1)

waspleg (316038) | about 12 years ago | (#3883641)

the machine take the hippcratic (sp?) oath?

what happens with l33t h4x0rs change the database so that cancer is treated with rubbing popsicles on your testicles

(or even less savory, used to assassinate someone w/ an incorrect diagnosis and treatment)

definitely technology can aid doctors, if they let it.. i don't think they will be replaced any time soon though...

once doctors realize they provide a service even if the machines make 99% accurate diagnosis people will still see doctors to make sure they're right, hear personalized advice etc.. doctors are more than just walking encylopedias of medical knowledge -- they should adapt quickly

Some patients are panicky morons. (4, Insightful)

JonMartin (123209) | about 12 years ago | (#3883655)

Too much information is bad for some patients. For example there are books available to doctors which compile every medication available and what the results of the clinical trials were. Every result - from effect on symptoms to side-effects to placebo effects (the side-effects that the people given placebos developed) - in brutal detail. If you prescribe Foo(tm) for illness bar, and the patient looks and sees that a patient given a placebo Foo had a heart attack, what do you think they will do? The rare individual will say "Wow. Weird." and understand that Foo is perfectly safe. But the majority will run away screaming to another doctor and refuse treatment with Foo for the rest of their lives.

Everyone thinks that doctors are just data libraries and that anyone with the same information could do just as good a job. Not true. Most of the job is interpretation. That is why different doctors make different diagnoses. The doctors most respected by other doctors are those that consistently "see" things that others don't ("Well this looks like bar at first, but it reminds me of baz for some reason. Let's do some tests to check that out.").

Re:Some patients are panicky morons. (5, Insightful)

danheskett (178529) | about 12 years ago | (#3883700)

Giving more information to patients may do harm in the short term, but in the long term, it will elevate the people - just as giving people more information has *always* elevated people over time.

Knowledge is power. It's clichque, silly, stupid, and all that but it's true. Almost every person who has been given a "you have six months to live speech" has gone home and researched the crap out of their ailment. The reason is of course power.

I am always skeptical of my doctor. I try to poke holes in his case like Perry Mason or Matlock would. If he tells me I have XYZ then I want to know details. Yes, he thinks I am an SOB; but hey, you know what, too bad. I treat my doctor, my mechanic, my priest and my boss the same way: don't just tell me, convince me.

A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing (3, Insightful)

MBCook (132727) | about 12 years ago | (#3883659)

Yes, this could save time, make doctors lives easier, lower your HMO bills, etc. But everythings NOT comming up roses. There is a negitive to this kind of thing:

It's not at all uncommon for people to stop taking prescription drugs when they feel better. And to give the rest to friends or family members with similar symptoms, despite the fact that doing both of these can be very dangerous. Why? Because people "know what they're doing". If someone has the same symptoms as you, they must have the same illness, right?

Isn't it common for medical students, at the very start, to go looking for zebras when they hear hoofbeats? Well when you hear hoofbeats, chances are it just a horse, and doctors know that. But many times the students at the start go looking for odd diseases. All we need is for normal people to type "headache, sneezing, aches, tiredness" into a computer and see things like Bubonic Plague, Ebola, Haunta Virus, and other such things. Nothing spreads panic and fear like a little knowledge.

As the saying goes: "A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing"

It's worse (5, Interesting)

gmhowell (26755) | about 12 years ago | (#3883667)

It's actually frequently worse than this. (I work currently with 8 doctors, four pediatricians, three internists, and one FP. I've worked with.... Problem two dozen over the last few years. What I say doesn't necessarily reflect on the ones I currently work with.)

Doctors have bad egos. Really bad. Many of them refuse to acknowledge the shear drudgery of their average daily workings. Like another poster said, every one of her kids visits were the same. Yeah, no kidding. 90-95% of the visits to our office are within a few categories. Colds, heart problems, diabetes, and checkups of various sorts. (There are a couple of others, but not many). Yet it is not at all unusual for doctors to rail at this sort of technology for even these cases. They cling to an absurd belief that each patient is different. That, to put it bluntly, is bullshit. Most patients are the same. This sort of tool would make the routine stuff go MUCH faster, and would help narrow down the weird stuff to where you are doing real tests to really differentiate between two different (or five, or whatever) diagnoses. Of course, when those weird cases are programmed...

Others in this topic have mentioned that docs embrace new tech. Kinda. They embrace new diagnostic tools that they can play with. But they are not as in love with decision making/helping tools. It undermines their education. It undermines the fact that most of them just have incredibly good 'wetware' databases.

I would also discount the actions/thoughts/ideas of younger docs. They frequently change by the time they hit their mid-30's. I've seen it before, I'll see it again. They love the idea when in school/fresh out, but come to believe in their own manifest godhood over time. No mere pile of silicon could be greater than I.

Another problem that I actually do sympathize with is that this is grounds for serious lawsuits. You could claim your doctor did nothing/wrong thing based on what some stupid machine said to do. Any rational person knows the doc shouldn't automatically trust what the machine spits out, but you and I also know that there will be at least one or two docs who, when these things gain wider use, will take an extra martini at lunch, counting on the machine to catch his stupidity, ignoring the fact that the man and machine have to work in concert.

Given the decision support software (the drug interaction databases are one example. The only problem is that EVERY reaction is typically flagged, so you need to know what's going on to interpret the data. Kinda like the discussion of SQUID and other NIDS the other day) I can forsee this making strides. But it will be some time. Twenty years? There are two scenarios where this will happen faster:

First, HMO's and other insurance companies use this software or something similar to find out how quickly their docs are zeroing in on diagnoses. If they find something that lets them diagnose in one visit instead of four, they'll use it. And that's good for them and good for the patient (cheaper, quicker, more accurate care). The other scenario is one wherein the government mandates this sort of testing. Likely it would manifest similar to the HMO model, and be used to cut costs of state-subsidized healthcare. Again, not a bad thing.

The better docs I have spoken with (and being raised by a physician, I've likely spoken with more physicians than the average slashdotter knows) wouldn't mind getting to deal with the tough or fringe cases. That is a challenge. That's interesting. Pap smears and kid shots are rote drudgery.

I hope we'll see this gain prevalence soon, but don't count on it. And, as the article says, docs are more likely than ANYONE to dig in their heels.

A MD's perspective? (4, Insightful)

Lurkingrue (521019) | about 12 years ago | (#3883681)

As someone who will be graduating medical school in about a year, I can point out what my biggest hope/fear is with this kind of software -- and its not what readers have been suggesting in this thread up until now.

The thing that makes me both intensely interested and worried about this method of diagnosis is ... time management. Most patients don't seem to realize what ridiculous time constraints we're on -- the massive patient load we need to see just to tread water and keep the HMOs/hospital adminstrators/etc happy.

One of the most important parts of our training is learning how to balance diagnostic thoroughness with constant efficiency, and we learn all sorts of methods to do this. Any system like this software could seriously disrupt our breakneck pace, and its value is entirely unproven. Since the healthcare system is already stretched to its breaking point in the US, I worry that any changes that lower efficiency will send us into a tailspin.

Conversely, the idea that we could add such a powerful new tool to our arsenal seems like a dream come true. I would be thrilled to spend more time with each patient, to have a system that makes our diagnoses even more accurate and more focused, and to always be able to encompass the latest literature's suggestions and results.

The big hurdle to overcome in testing and implementing a system like this is getting the necessary volunteers. I'm not sure that I would be comfortable (when I'm about $300,000 in debt from medical school) being trained in such an unproven method of diagnostics. I suspect that most other medical students/schools, when faced with the uncertainty of the situation, would be equally reluctant to commit their money and their years to take such a risk when practicing modern medicine is already such an uncertain proposition.

"Money Grubbing" (4, Insightful)

HoaryCripple (187169) | about 12 years ago | (#3883682)

I really take offense to the people here who state that "The AMA are just a bunch of money grubbing..." whatever. These people have no clue as to how much the average doctor gets paid these days.

As a resident ~ $37,000 a year for ~100 to 110 hours of work per week.

As a Primary care physician ~$180,000 for ~80 to 100 hours a week (of course this figure really depends on how much you want to work)

As a specialist ~ it really depends. Usually not above $300,000 a year

And that's after 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, 3 years of residency, 3 years of fellowship and for some a couple of years post fellowship. And, remember that most people are in the hole ~$180,000 - $200,000 (including interest) after medical school.

So, in my particular case I'll be seeing $300,000 a year after 12 years of getting under mimimum wage. If anyone wanted to cut it more than that, well, then bye, bye medicine. You can go see the baseball players that get $5,000,000 a year (and still want to strike for more money) hooked up with a medical database.

That said, I think that the database is a good idea. Technology is our friend -- already my colleagues and I use software for the Palm platform which finds obscure drug interactions. The PKC is an extension of this kind of functionality. Change is good.

Re:"Money Grubbing" (1)

frankmu (68782) | about 12 years ago | (#3883723)

actually, the AMA and other medical organizations are self-serving entities, i think. they are out to protect their own interests, like any other groups (democrates, republicans, labor unions, etc.) i believe they have lost touch with the physicians in the trenches. they should be checking information systems like this. instead, their idea of the internet is another way to spam my e-mail address. speaking as a bitter doc.

[Horny Smurf] Rough & tough (ebonics style!) (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883706)

By popular request!

Tonight way goin' t'be awesome. What it is, Mama! ah' plum gots plantation fum wo'k, took some shower, and now ah' wuz puttin' on mah' favo'ite outfit. Right On! It wuz Friday night and no one wuz goin' t'stop me fum havin' some baaaad time tonight. ah' metdownwid some uh my homeys at some gas stashunwaaay downde street. We decided t'hit some few clubs, den afterwards, if we dun didnt hookdownwid anyone, we wuz goin' t'go t'our favo'ite bar "Shouters". We had da damn whole night planned out. We wuz plannin' t'be feelin' de effects uh tonight until late sunday evenin', hopefully not monday when we all had t'go back t'wo'k. So we all jumped in de cars and drove ova' to de strip. We went into some few clubs. danced wid some few mama, but da damn clubs plum were not jumpin tonight fo' some reason. 'S coo', bro. We all began t'grow bo'ed uh dancin' and da damn loud beat, so's we all decided t'go ova' to Shouters earlia' den whut we wuz plannin'. We started off wid some few beers, den we all plum said fuck it, and started o'derin' de hard shit. Afta' a few shots, and some lot mo'e drinks, ah' wuz completely waisted. Right On! My homeys wuz not as messeddownas ah' wuz. So ah' wuz sittin dere fo' some while and dis dude walks in. 'S coo', bro. He walks right behind me and some how he hit me in de back uh de 'haid. ah' dun didnt know o' care if it wuz accidental, but ah' jumpeddownand started t'whup' de shit out uh dis guy. Slap mah fro! My homey all pulled me off uh him and da damn bartenda' told me t'get da damn hell out uh his bar. Right On! ah' told mah' homeys t'stay dere and finish dere drinks. ah' would be outside waitin' fo' dem. 'S coo', bro. ah' had t'piss so's bad-ass, and da damn only place dat wuz jimmey at dat time around dere wuz de bar, and since ah' couldnt go back in dere, ah' had t'look fo' some place outside. What it is, Mama! ah' saw an alley on de side uh de buildin', and decided dat ah' should plum go into de alley and do mah' business. So ah' unzip mah' mants, pulled out mah' dick and proceeded t' snatch some piss right dere in de alley. Slap mah fro! Afta' a few seconds ah' could hear foot steps behind me. What it is, Mama! "Hey ya' know ya' kin git arrested fo' dat. Right On! " ah' heard da damn voice say. Slap mah fro! "Fuck off" ah' told him, and kept goin'. De footsteps gots closer, and as ah' turned t'look, ah' could see dat dis guy wuz huge. What it is, Mama! about 6'5" 260lbs uh hard muscle. Right On! ah' squeezed out da damn last few drops uh piss and da damn guy grabbed mah' arms and held dem tightly behind me. What it is, Mama! "

What da damn hell you is doin. Right On! " He grabbed mah' dick. "Here let me shake it fo' ya" He dragged me furda' down de alley. Slap mah fro! ah' wuz tryin' t'yell fo' help, but it wuz now use, He put his huge hand ova' my moud. No one could hear me. What it is, Mama! He took me inside some doo' dat led into some room wid an old mattress layin' on de floo'. ah' wuz terrified. Right On! ah' dun didnt know whut dis guy wuz goin' t'do wid me. What it is, Mama! He took out some handcuffs and cuffed me t'some poles dat wuz on de wall. ah' wuz layin' on de mattress wid mah' hands cuffed t'a pole. What it is, Mama! ah' wuz dinkin' dat maybe he wuz some weirdo dat wants'ed t'to'ture me. Right On! ah' started t'sweat profusely. Slap mah fro! He came ova' to me and told me t'shut da damn fuck up. He gagged me so's i couldnt yell o' say anydin'. He started t'pull mah' jeans off. What it is, Mama! Den he slid mah' boxers off. What it is, Mama! He walked ova' to some table and grabbed some pare uh scisso's. ah' wuz terrified. ah' dought dis guy wuz about t'cut mah' dick off. What it is, Mama! ah' tried t'scream and yell, but it wuz no use, de gag wuz doin' its job. Sheeeiit. No one could hear me. What it is, Mama! ah' sighed as he brought da damn scisso's closa' and he started t'cut mah' shirt. ah' had neva' been so's relieved in mah' life. What it is, Mama! He cut mah' shirt off, and ah' wuz layin' dere on de old matress completely nude, gagged and bound t'de poles on de wall. He started t' snatch his clodes off. What it is, Mama! He wuz completely naked. 'Sup, dudes body wuzsheeitmuscled, wid real light fro on his chest and stomach. 'Sup, dudes dick wuz huge. Right On! de big-assgest ah' had eva' seen befo'e. Right On! . Right On! It wuz as big-ass around as some bea' can and about 7" long, and it wuznt even hard yet. Right On! He started t'play wid himself, attemptin' t'get himself hard ah' suppose. What it is, Mama! ah' saw dis wahtahmellun grow into some fuckin' monster. Right On! It wuz about some foot long, if not longer, and dis wahtahmellun wuz so's dick. Right On! . Right On! . Right On! He walked ova' to me and flipped me onto mah' stomach. ah' saw him reach fo' some bottle uh sump'n, but ah' couldnt make out whut it wuz. ah' felt sump'n wet and cold drizzlin' onto mah' ass. He grabbed mah' ass and spread me wide open. 'S coo', bro. He started t'rub dis stuff all ova' my asshole. What it is, Mama! ah' almost started t'cry as ah' had figured he wuz goin' t'stick his huge cock in mah' ass. Right On! . Right On! . Right On! ah' wuz so's terrified ah' dink dat mah' pubes where turnin' grey. Right On! ah' felt his fin'ers rubbin' mah' ass. All uh a sudden ah' plum started gittin' all dese emoshuns and feelin' dat ah' had neva' had befo'e. Right On! ah' mean sho' nuff ah' gots' dought about bein' wid anoda' guy befo'e, but whut guy gots'tant. So as ah' wuz layin' dere wid him completely in control, ah' started t'get real aroused. ah' couldnt recon' whut wuz happenin'.

Dis guy wuz about t'rape me and ah' wuz enjoyin' it. Right On! As he rubbed mah' asshole ah' plum gave in t'de pleasho' nuff. My cock started t'grow and ah' pushed mah' ass upward mo'e so's i could git mah' ass jimmey a little mo'e. What it is, Mama! Den it happened, he plunged one uh his fin'ers into mah' ass. Oh mah' it felt amazin'. De feelin' wuz indescribable. What it is, Mama! ah' started t'moan and buck mah' assdownand down. 'S coo', bro. Den ah' felt anoda' fin'a' violate mah' rectum. 'S coo', bro. ah' figured dat he wuz loosenin' medownfo' his huge pecker. Ah be baaad... Den he pulled out, and ah' felt it. Right On! It huge cock wuz at da damn entrance t'my pink virgin bung. Right On! ah' felt him drust his hips fo'ward, and wid one sin'le push de 'haid uh his cock wuz inside uh me. What it is, Mama! De pain wuz so's immense, ah' dought dat he had t'of done some majo' damage t'my ass. Den he pushed it all de way in. 'S coo', bro. ah' started t'buck and wiggle mah' body. Slap mah fro! it hurt so's bad-ass dat ah' had tears runnin'waaay downmy face. What it is, Mama! de pain wuz immense. Right On! Just try shovin' some bear kindownyo' virgin ass and tell me how it feels. As dis guy wuz violatin' mah' rectum, all ah' could dink about wuz how hot ah' wuz gittin'. My lust wuz overridin' de pain. 'S coo', bro. It started t'feel so's amazin' havin' his huge prick inside uh me. What it is, Mama! ah' couldnt recon' whut wuz happenin'. Oh mah' god, ah' had neva' in mah' entire life felt sump'n as baaaad as dis huge dick bein' plunged deep into mah' ass. Den he pulled out. He turned me on mah' back and saw how hard ah' wuz. He ax'ed me if ah' wuz enjoyin' him fuckin' me likes some bitch. Right On! . ah' told him dat ah' wuz and he kneltwaaay downin between mah' legs. He took mah' 8" cock into his moud and began t'suck it likes some pro. Right On! as he wuz suckin' me he wuz rammin' his fin'a' in mah' ass. ah' started t'moan. 'S coo', bro. It felt so's baaaad t'gots' anoda' man suckin' me. What it is, Mama! ah' started t'cum likes ah' had neva' came befo'e. What it is, Mama! He plum kept his moud right ova' my cock and took every bit uh my seed into his moud. he pushed himselfdownwid his massive arms and took de gag fum mah' moud. He leaned his face towards me and began t'stick his tongue in mah' moud.

My cum wuz still in his moud. de taste wuz incredible. What it is, Mama! dis wuz de fust time dat ah' had eva' in mah' life tasted cum. 'S coo', bro. ah' had neva' even dought about it befo'e. What it is, Mama! As many times as ah' had da damn chance t'do it befo'e, ah' plum neva' dough about doin' it. But ah' loved every minute uh it. ah' savo'ed da damn taste uh my cum and his tongue in mah' moud. ah' felt chills goin'downandwaaay downmy spine as dis fuckin' hunk had his tongue rammedwaaay downmy droat. De he grabbed mah' legs and drew dem ova' his shoulders. He spread mah' ass again and inserted his huge piece uh meat. Right On! ah' moaned and gasped as he shoved it back into mah' warm dude hole. What it is, Mama! Oh it felt so's baaaad. ah' told him t'fuck me likes de little bitch dat ah' wuz. Fuck me until ya' fill mah' ass full uh yo' honky creamy jism. Right On! . Right On! He started t'fuck me so's hard. It wuz amazin'. He started t'jerk me off as he wuz fuckin' me. What it is, Mama! Just some few jerks and ah' wuz cummin' again. 'S coo', bro. All ova' his stomach and chest. mah' cum wuz flyin' everywhere. What it is, Mama! ah' had neva' came likes dis befo'e. What it is, Mama!

Dis wuz de best sex ah' had eva' had in mah' life. Right On! ah' saw his face turn bright red, and his body began t'shake. What it is, Mama! He let out some huge gasp and den he moaned so's loud. He must gots' squirted some fuckin' gallon uh cum into mah' ass. He wuz jerkin' fo' whut seemed likes 2 minutes straight, when he finally finished he dropped ova' on top uh me and told me dat it wuz de best he had eva' had. Right On! . He told me how tight ah' wuz and how he loved rippin' me open. Right On! . ah' told him dat it wuz de best fuckin' sex ah' had eva' had. He said dat he dun didnt wants' me t'gots' any hard feelin's. it wuz plum dat he likesd whut he saw, and he snatch'd whut he likess. ah' told him dat it wuznt some problem, afta' all. How kin ya' rape da damn willin'?......

[horny smurf] rough & tough, ebonics style (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3883717)

I've got more proxies than you have mod points!

Tonight way goin' t'be awesome. What it is, Mama! ah' plum gots plantation fum wo'k, took some shower, and now ah' wuz puttin' on mah' favo'ite outfit. Right On! It wuz Friday night and no one wuz goin' t'stop me fum havin' some baaaad time tonight. ah' metdownwid some uh my homeys at some gas stashunwaaay downde street. We decided t'hit some few clubs, den afterwards, if we dun didnt hookdownwid anyone, we wuz goin' t'go t'our favo'ite bar "Shouters". We had da damn whole night planned out. We wuz plannin' t'be feelin' de effects uh tonight until late sunday evenin', hopefully not monday when we all had t'go back t'wo'k. So we all jumped in de cars and drove ova' to de strip. We went into some few clubs. danced wid some few mama, but da damn clubs plum were not jumpin tonight fo' some reason. 'S coo', bro. We all began t'grow bo'ed uh dancin' and da damn loud beat, so's we all decided t'go ova' to Shouters earlia' den whut we wuz plannin'. We started off wid some few beers, den we all plum said fuck it, and started o'derin' de hard shit. Afta' a few shots, and some lot mo'e drinks, ah' wuz completely waisted. Right On! My homeys wuz not as messeddownas ah' wuz. So ah' wuz sittin dere fo' some while and dis dude walks in. 'S coo', bro. He walks right behind me and some how he hit me in de back uh de 'haid. ah' dun didnt know o' care if it wuz accidental, but ah' jumpeddownand started t'whup' de shit out uh dis guy. Slap mah fro! My homey all pulled me off uh him and da damn bartenda' told me t'get da damn hell out uh his bar. Right On! ah' told mah' homeys t'stay dere and finish dere drinks. ah' would be outside waitin' fo' dem. 'S coo', bro. ah' had t'piss so's bad-ass, and da damn only place dat wuz jimmey at dat time around dere wuz de bar, and since ah' couldnt go back in dere, ah' had t'look fo' some place outside. What it is, Mama! ah' saw an alley on de side uh de buildin', and decided dat ah' should plum go into de alley and do mah' business. So ah' unzip mah' mants, pulled out mah' dick and proceeded t' snatch some piss right dere in de alley. Slap mah fro! Afta' a few seconds ah' could hear foot steps behind me. What it is, Mama! "Hey ya' know ya' kin git arrested fo' dat. Right On! " ah' heard da damn voice say. Slap mah fro! "Fuck off" ah' told him, and kept goin'. De footsteps gots closer, and as ah' turned t'look, ah' could see dat dis guy wuz huge. What it is, Mama! about 6'5" 260lbs uh hard muscle. Right On! ah' squeezed out da damn last few drops uh piss and da damn guy grabbed mah' arms and held dem tightly behind me. What it is, Mama! "

What da damn hell you is doin. Right On! " He grabbed mah' dick. "Here let me shake it fo' ya" He dragged me furda' down de alley. Slap mah fro! ah' wuz tryin' t'yell fo' help, but it wuz now use, He put his huge hand ova' my moud. No one could hear me. What it is, Mama! He took me inside some doo' dat led into some room wid an old mattress layin' on de floo'. ah' wuz terrified. Right On! ah' dun didnt know whut dis guy wuz goin' t'do wid me. What it is, Mama! He took out some handcuffs and cuffed me t'some poles dat wuz on de wall. ah' wuz layin' on de mattress wid mah' hands cuffed t'a pole. What it is, Mama! ah' wuz dinkin' dat maybe he wuz some weirdo dat wants'ed t'to'ture me. Right On! ah' started t'sweat profusely. Slap mah fro! He came ova' to me and told me t'shut da damn fuck up. He gagged me so's i couldnt yell o' say anydin'. He started t'pull mah' jeans off. What it is, Mama! Den he slid mah' boxers off. What it is, Mama! He walked ova' to some table and grabbed some pare uh scisso's. ah' wuz terrified. ah' dought dis guy wuz about t'cut mah' dick off. What it is, Mama! ah' tried t'scream and yell, but it wuz no use, de gag wuz doin' its job. Sheeeiit. No one could hear me. What it is, Mama! ah' sighed as he brought da damn scisso's closa' and he started t'cut mah' shirt. ah' had neva' been so's relieved in mah' life. What it is, Mama! He cut mah' shirt off, and ah' wuz layin' dere on de old matress completely nude, gagged and bound t'de poles on de wall. He started t' snatch his clodes off. What it is, Mama! He wuz completely naked. 'Sup, dudes body wuzsheeitmuscled, wid real light fro on his chest and stomach. 'Sup, dudes dick wuz huge. Right On! de big-assgest ah' had eva' seen befo'e. Right On! . Right On! It wuz as big-ass around as some bea' can and about 7" long, and it wuznt even hard yet. Right On! He started t'play wid himself, attemptin' t'get himself hard ah' suppose. What it is, Mama! ah' saw dis wahtahmellun grow into some fuckin' monster. Right On! It wuz about some foot long, if not longer, and dis wahtahmellun wuz so's dick. Right On! . Right On! . Right On! He walked ova' to me and flipped me onto mah' stomach. ah' saw him reach fo' some bottle uh sump'n, but ah' couldnt make out whut it wuz. ah' felt sump'n wet and cold drizzlin' onto mah' ass. He grabbed mah' ass and spread me wide open. 'S coo', bro. He started t'rub dis stuff all ova' my asshole. What it is, Mama! ah' almost started t'cry as ah' had figured he wuz goin' t'stick his huge cock in mah' ass. Right On! . Right On! . Right On! ah' wuz so's terrified ah' dink dat mah' pubes where turnin' grey. Right On! ah' felt his fin'ers rubbin' mah' ass. All uh a sudden ah' plum started gittin' all dese emoshuns and feelin' dat ah' had neva' had befo'e. Right On! ah' mean sho' nuff ah' gots' dought about bein' wid anoda' guy befo'e, but whut guy gots'tant. So as ah' wuz layin' dere wid him completely in control, ah' started t'get real aroused. ah' couldnt recon' whut wuz happenin'.

Dis guy wuz about t'rape me and ah' wuz enjoyin' it. Right On! As he rubbed mah' asshole ah' plum gave in t'de pleasho' nuff. My cock started t'grow and ah' pushed mah' ass upward mo'e so's i could git mah' ass jimmey a little mo'e. What it is, Mama! Den it happened, he plunged one uh his fin'ers into mah' ass. Oh mah' it felt amazin'. De feelin' wuz indescribable. What it is, Mama! ah' started t'moan and buck mah' assdownand down. 'S coo', bro. Den ah' felt anoda' fin'a' violate mah' rectum. 'S coo', bro. ah' figured dat he wuz loosenin' medownfo' his huge pecker. Ah be baaad... Den he pulled out, and ah' felt it. Right On! It huge cock wuz at da damn entrance t'my pink virgin bung. Right On! ah' felt him drust his hips fo'ward, and wid one sin'le push de 'haid uh his cock wuz inside uh me. What it is, Mama! De pain wuz so's immense, ah' dought dat he had t'of done some majo' damage t'my ass. Den he pushed it all de way in. 'S coo', bro. ah' started t'buck and wiggle mah' body. Slap mah fro! it hurt so's bad-ass dat ah' had tears runnin'waaay downmy face. What it is, Mama! de pain wuz immense. Right On! Just try shovin' some bear kindownyo' virgin ass and tell me how it feels. As dis guy wuz violatin' mah' rectum, all ah' could dink about wuz how hot ah' wuz gittin'. My lust wuz overridin' de pain. 'S coo', bro. It started t'feel so's amazin' havin' his huge prick inside uh me. What it is, Mama! ah' couldnt recon' whut wuz happenin'. Oh mah' god, ah' had neva' in mah' entire life felt sump'n as baaaad as dis huge dick bein' plunged deep into mah' ass. Den he pulled out. He turned me on mah' back and saw how hard ah' wuz. He ax'ed me if ah' wuz enjoyin' him fuckin' me likes some bitch. Right On! . ah' told him dat ah' wuz and he kneltwaaay downin between mah' legs. He took mah' 8" cock into his moud and began t'suck it likes some pro. Right On! as he wuz suckin' me he wuz rammin' his fin'a' in mah' ass. ah' started t'moan. 'S coo', bro. It felt so's baaaad t'gots' anoda' man suckin' me. What it is, Mama! ah' started t'cum likes ah' had neva' came befo'e. What it is, Mama! He plum kept his moud right ova' my cock and took every bit uh my seed into his moud. he pushed himselfdownwid his massive arms and took de gag fum mah' moud. He leaned his face towards me and began t'stick his tongue in mah' moud.

My cum wuz still in his moud. de taste wuz incredible. What it is, Mama! dis wuz de fust time dat ah' had eva' in mah' life tasted cum. 'S coo', bro. ah' had neva' even dought about it befo'e. What it is, Mama! As many times as ah' had da damn chance t'do it befo'e, ah' plum neva' dough about doin' it. But ah' loved every minute uh it. ah' savo'ed da damn taste uh my cum and his tongue in mah' moud. ah' felt chills goin'downandwaaay downmy spine as dis fuckin' hunk had his tongue rammedwaaay downmy droat. De he grabbed mah' legs and drew dem ova' his shoulders. He spread mah' ass again and inserted his huge piece uh meat. Right On! ah' moaned and gasped as he shoved it back into mah' warm dude hole. What it is, Mama! Oh it felt so's baaaad. ah' told him t'fuck me likes de little bitch dat ah' wuz. Fuck me until ya' fill mah' ass full uh yo' honky creamy jism. Right On! . Right On! He started t'fuck me so's hard. It wuz amazin'. He started t'jerk me off as he wuz fuckin' me. What it is, Mama! Just some few jerks and ah' wuz cummin' again. 'S coo', bro. All ova' his stomach and chest. mah' cum wuz flyin' everywhere. What it is, Mama! ah' had neva' came likes dis befo'e. What it is, Mama!

Dis wuz de best sex ah' had eva' had in mah' life. Right On! ah' saw his face turn bright red, and his body began t'shake. What it is, Mama! He let out some huge gasp and den he moaned so's loud. He must gots' squirted some fuckin' gallon uh cum into mah' ass. He wuz jerkin' fo' whut seemed likes 2 minutes straight, when he finally finished he dropped ova' on top uh me and told me dat it wuz de best he had eva' had. Right On! . He told me how tight ah' wuz and how he loved rippin' me open. Right On! . ah' told him dat it wuz de best fuckin' sex ah' had eva' had. He said dat he dun didnt wants' me t'gots' any hard feelin's. it wuz plum dat he likesd whut he saw, and he snatch'd whut he likess. ah' told him dat it wuznt some problem, afta' all. How kin ya' rape da damn willin'?......

dangerous trend (1)

negativethirsty (555244) | about 12 years ago | (#3883720)

Databases are nothing new, the older forms are what we call "books". There is a reason medical students are required to do more than just memorize facts about the human body etc. They provide insight and experience in interpreting the facts/test results. I believe this could be a tool for them to use but very open to abuse. What if insurance companies and other type instituions opt for a cheaper alternative analysis simply because its plausable to reply on a computer?
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...