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Apple Reveals Mac OS X 10.2, 17" iMac, Windows iPod

pudge posted more than 12 years ago | from the jagwire-is-looking-pretty-sweet dept.

Apple 1073

Steve Jobs today announced at the Macworld Keynote that Mac OS X 10.2 will be available August 24 for $129. "That's less than $1 for each major feature," he quipped. Updates will be available in some cases for $19.99. Also introduced were iTunes 3, iPod updates, iChat, iCal, iSync, a 17" iMac, and a lot more.Many of the new features have been mentioned here before, including QuickTime 6, spring-loaded folders, integrated Finder searching, better Windows integration, new Address Book, new Mail, Rendezvous, iChat, and Sherlock 3.

The Address Book is now system-wide, accessible from many applications, and even has Bluetooth integration. Jobs dialed his cell phone via Address Book, and then when someone called him back on that phone, the computer popped up with the caller's name in Address Book. He had the option to pick up the phone or reply with a short text message.

iSync is a new system for synching your contacts and calendars with GPRS cell phones, Palms, and iPods; so Palms and cell phones are now a part of the digital hub. The iSync program shows you connected devices, and allows configuration of what to sync, and when. The demo showed a complete sync of an address book on the computer to the cell phone, again over Bluetooth. iSync will also allow integration with .mac to update your contacts and calendars between multiple computers, and will be available as a free download in September.

The Mail app now has much better searching and spam filtering, and inline QuickTime (no, that won't be abused ...).

Rendezvous will allow such things as automatic accessing of other's playlists in iTunes, accessing USB printers on the network, and more, with "zero configuration" (I hope there is some configuration, so I can opt in or out of such things). Epson, HP, and Lexmark will have Rendezvous-compatible printers. Jobs didn't mention any way to share USB printers between Mac OS and Mac OS X.

iChat, the new instant messaging program, and iCal, the new shared calendar program, can work with the $100-per-year .mac subscription, or with the free AOL IM account and any web server. iChat will use Rendezvous for finding local users, and shared calendars can be sent via iChat or mail. iCal will ship in September, as a free download.

Sherlock 3 has been completely rewritten, using Internet services (SOAP? XML-RPC?) instead of trying to parse HTML. The demo showed movie listings with embedded trailers, eBay searches with intelligently organized information and pictures, Google image searching, and a Yellow Pages search that knows your ZIP code and sorts by distance, and shows directions and maps.

iTunes 3 is out today, with new features such as rating songs, keeping track of how often songs are played, playing back all songs at the same volume, integration with, and "Smart Playlists" with rulesets so they are automatically populated (e.g., "25 most played songs", or "500 MB of songs where playcount is 0", to play songs you've never listened to). It is only available for Mac OS X, and requires registration with an email address.

For the iPod, Apple lowered prices on the 5GB and 10GB models ($299, $399), and introduced a 20GB model ($499). The 10GB and 20GB have a solid state scroll wheel, a door to protect the FireWire port, a remote control, and a case. The playlist counts, Smart Playlists, and integration sync between the iPod and iTunes. Sound volume check has also been added to the iPod. The new 10GB model is 7.692 percent thinner than the previous version.

Also added to the iPod, in addition to the contacts, is calendars, synched with iCal, so it can really act as a PDA for most people. Jobs also announced Windows versions of iPod, synching with musicmatch and including a FireWire 6-to-4 pin cable.

The new iMac has a 17" widescreen display at 1440x900, with an NVIDIA GeForce4 MX, G4/800, and 80GB hard drive.

Jobs also noted that there are 2.5 million Mac OS X users, that 77 percent of owners of new Macs keep Mac OS X as the primary OS, and that they estimate there will be 5 million Mac OS X users by the end of the year, representing 20% of all Mac users using the new OS in the first 24 months.

Apple showed some new ads in the "Switch" campaign, including a student who lost her paper on Windows, a student whose CDs get messed up in his bag (although they didn't point out that he can use iPod under Windows now), and a comedian who ended his commercial with, "My name is Will Ferrell ... and I'm a porn actor."

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Awesome Shit! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901729)

FP for Katie, and for Jaguar!

Do we need complex acronyms? by poopbot (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901739)

Credits: dmg

Yet again the Linux so-called elite, backed up by their pseudo intellectual cohorts of the w3c conspire to ruin Linux's chances in the marketplace by sowing confusion and complexity. As someone with years of experience in the marketing world, I am constantly amazed at the willingness of the W3C and other bodies to pollute the acronym space with their content free "TLAs".

Basic marketing 101 (and an undergrad course in psychology) would tell them that the normal person is only capable of remembering approximately 7 items of data in their short-term memory, but now we have to remember HTTP, HTML, XML, XSL, DTD, PHP, SSL, DSL, ADSL, ISDN, Perl, etc etc etc

This is a text book example of the tail wagging the dog from a marketing perspective.

I have been following the standardisation of the web for many many months now, but one thing has become clear, E-commerce will NEVER become popular so long as there are so many confusing acronyms involved. The guys in charge of marketing Linux absolutely MUST work to reduce the number of acronyms. One possible solution would be to merge those protocols which are not all that different. For example, why not merge XML with SGML ? (they could call it XSGML or SXGML or perhaps XMSGML), they seem to address the same problems. Or would that be too simplistic a solution for their pampered elitist ivy-league minds to comprehend ?

If something is not done URGENTLY, and I mean URGENTLY, Linux (and other more experimental derivatives such as FreeBSD) can never hope to be taken seriously as an e-commerce platform by the people who count - the accountants.

The miracle of Linux is that anyone actually runs it at all, considering one seems to require a masters in computer science to install it! (contrast this with NT4 which was so easy to install, we let our receptionist upgrade her own machine).

As usual my "open source" advice is free. Hopefully this time my valuable advice will be taken into account the next time the w3c smell an acronym brewing.

Finally, in conclusion, as an American, I am saddened that the Internet seems to have been commandeered by a European based protocol. Was America so short of talent we had to buy the HTML protocol from Tom Berners-Lee at CERN ?

Think of the security implications of the worlds strongest economy, running an e-commerce protocol developed by a foreigner from Socialist Europe. Remember the wall has not been down for that long. Who knows what kind of trojans might be lurking within the depths of these complicated protocols.

I am afraid I am behind Al Gore on this point, how can this be necessary in the home of smart corporations such as Microsoft and Intel ? The answer is the vast subsidies given by European socialist governments to fund development of the HTML specification.

The solution is clear. The federal government should mandate and strongly subsidise the use of Microsoft software for all US corporations involved in e-commerce. Only with a US-developed set of protocols can we be assured of the security of our transactions.

- posted by poopbot: for the crapflooder in all of us


Re:Do we need complex acronyms? by poopbot (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901855)

Moderaters , please delete this nationalistic post please.
poopbot: learn your facts also, in how many governments in Europe are the socialist having the majority now?? Check that out once.
And get out of the cold war , get over it , IT'S OVER.

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901744)


$129?!?!?! (1, Troll)

1010011010 (53039) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901745)

What? The bug fixes cost HOW MUCH? How many times do I have to buy this damned OS?

Re:$129?!?!?! (4, Insightful)

sky289hawk1 (459600) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901762)

Twice. You buy X.0. Then you got X.1 for free and all the updates with it. You then buy X.2. Of course, if you buy a computer sometime in the last 2 years, you will only buy OSX once. Either once with having to upgrade to X.2 or once having to get X.2 for the first time.

Re:$129?!?!?! (5, Informative)

AtaruMoroboshi (522293) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901767)

This is not bug fixes.

This is an update.

You did READ what was posted is going to be in 10.2, didn't you?

If you had watched the keynote like I did (via quicktime), you'd know this is FAR more than a bug fix.


Re:$129?!?!?! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901829)

Mm hm. Just like Windows 98SE and Windows ME were updates... yep.

Keep drinking the Kool Aid or else you might see reality and scare yourself.

Re:$129?!?!?! (0, Insightful)

eyeball (17206) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901871)

Regardless, it's $129 for a bunch of features I didn't ask for (which is also a common complaint behind Microsoft). Of course I'm free to not purchase the 'Update,' but how long until 10.[01] is no longer supported? If I don't buy the upgrade, how long will it be until I can't get bugfixes and critical security updates?

So as I figure it, if Apple continues along this path, that's $130/year from each user.

Re:$129?!?!?! (3, Interesting)

King Babar (19862) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901929)

This is not bug fixes.

This is an update.

Alas, you are correct. It looks like they still have not fixed all the printing bugs.

Seriously, my USB-connected printer was hugely more functional under Mac OS 9. Rendezvous sounds wonderful, but it apparently won't do much for my current HP inkjet.

Yes, there are hacks to get USB printing working under the current OS, and I'll have to go with one of those, since spending $258 to upgrade the OS this year is...not going to happen very quickly. My most likely course of action now is to defer upgrading or purchasing any Apple stuff until 2003, which I fear is the opposite of what they were looking for here.

Re:$129?!?!?! (2, Redundant)

Brento (26177) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901793)

What? The bug fixes cost HOW MUCH? How many times do I have to buy this damned OS?

The undertone of this keynote was, "We need more of your money." Other shows have been all about bringing more users into the fold, but this show was clearly about getting more money from the existing user base.

The funniest part was the absolute dead silence after the dotMac introduction, when users were informed that they were going to have to shell out $100 a year for stuff they've always gotten for free.

Re:$129?!?!?! (2, Funny)

mh_tang (307188) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901909)

The funniest part was the absolute dead silence after the dotMac introduction, when users were informed that they were going to have to shell out $100 a year for stuff they've always gotten for free.
Ahh yes, I believe this age-old trick is known as the bait-n-switch [] ...

Re:$129?!?!?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901805)

Its not a bug fix release, you dolt. Its an upgrade...

Re:$129?!?!?! (1, Informative)

Fugly (118668) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901827)

They'll have the $20 upgrade pricing. No need to spaz.

Re:$129?!?!?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901843)

Have you not paid attention to the myriad of actually new things that have been added? Besides, you're probably only about on par with Windows XP Pro users, $129 ($69 educational) for the full release, $19 for the update if you couldn't get it for free, $129 again for this is still about $280, less than Windows XP Pro full. Not only that, but the cost is spread out and you don't have that annoying license to deal with. There have been many other updates that have been free (but this should be expected).
True, you could have paid for the beta, buuut WinXP had a paid "preview" as well, so that's not relavent. Plus you get OS 9 with this as well. Compared to almost anything else, MacOS is actually not too expensive (disregarding the hardware). Perhaps a Quicktime Pro license will be included too, like it was with 8.5.

I agree, it would be nice to see a $49 OS X only upgrade (9 has seemingly stopped at 9.2.2) or something. But I also think that it's not an unreasonable request considering the fact that 10.1 is pretty solid as is (as in reliable, not referring to redraw speeds or whatnot), and 10.2 is really adding to it, not fixing huge bugs.

Re:$129?!?!?! (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901849)

Man, it's like another $129 bucks every six months. Even Microsoft isn't that brazen.

Re:$129?!?!?! (2, Informative)

questionlp (58365) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901877)

$129 - Full Version (meaning if you have say Mac OS 9 and want to move up to Mac OS X)
$19-20 - Update (Already have Mac OS X 10.x), think MS-DOS 6.0 to MS-DOS 6.2

BTW - I really like the idea of the widescreen iMac, but I'd rather get the TiBook :)

Re:$129?!?!?! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901907)

excuse me, give to me the 72 hour ban. i need it for testing.

$129 only if you don't have OS X yet. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901928)

Pay? I've paid once for OS 10.0. The upgrade to 10.1 was free. This $129 figure is the retail, full-blown version price (ie, for those upgrading from OS 9). Which is the same price i paid for 10.0.

Upgrade pricing for 10.2 has not been announced.


Here's the reason... (-1)

ClickWir (166927) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901931)

The reason it costs so much is because they have to buy new keyboards every other day for eveyone because everyone is wearing out their keyboards pressing all those "i"s all over the place. Everyone knows that apple charges 3X's more for parts than any other company, and with the kinds of idiots that run that company, they are probably charging themselves full price.

The "iAnything" naming convention was neat for like 5 days... then they killed it with overuse... now they are beating the ground where a dead horse once was but has long decayed and gone.

so I have to pay? (2, Troll)

laserjet (170008) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901746)

So, I have an iBook. I got the iBook with OS 9 and OS X preloaded because Apple knew OS X was not quite good enough yet for sole use of that OS. I basically tested the software for Apple, and it does have some bugs, and it quite a bit slower than OS 9.

Now I have to pay to get an updated version?

Re:so I have to pay? (-1, Troll)

Usama bin Laden (544103) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901771)

Your adoration of this femininely shaped machine is pure idolotry. Give up your false Gods.

Allah is the way.

Re:so I have to pay? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901915)

Wow, you're fucking hillarious!


No. (1)

hexdcml (553714) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901784)

No, you don't HAVE to pay. OS 10.1.5 is pretty good. I wouldn't say its buggy as, say.. my Windows 98 machine with ALL the patches installed, its still like a leaky boat. Jaguar is essentially like Windows 98 SE - it's got way more stuff. And like Steve said, at $129 - thats like $1 per feature/bug fix. I dunno. I'd still wait until I'm forced to update. Still, I don't mind the Jaguar price tag.

It's the $99 iTools (.mac) which I'm not happy about. and what about people on the other side of the pond? how do we purchase this? I've been to the site, but it's sitll under construction and things are still quite buggy.

BTW, anyone had sucess d/l iTunes3? that looks darn kewl.

Re:No. (2)

laserjet (170008) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901870)

I am aware of that, but I am still pissed because I, and many Mac users, don't consider OS X to be a "finished product". It doesn't feel solid.

For instance, I have that f&cking beach-ball cursor pop up sometimes for 15 seconds for no apparent reason. I have 384 Megs of RAM, which should be sufficient to run 2 apps at the same time.

OS X feels slow and unresponsive sometimes. I have no data to support this, but OS X users know what I mean when comparing it to OS 9.

It just feels like a beta product to me. I am upset that I have to pay to get the next upgrade version. This is NOT a new OS, this is a .2 update. I am starting to feel like being in the Microsoft trap when it comes to my laptop.

Re:No. (2)

foobar104 (206452) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901911)

Your experience is not typical. I work with many Macs, all running 10.1.4 or 10.1.5, and I don't see the ``spinning beachball'' problem that you're describing. It used to happen in 10.0.n, but I haven't seen it for a long time.

I think you might look into what's wrong with your system before you jump to the conclusion that the OS must be faulty.

Re:so I have to pay? (2, Informative)

Dark Paladin (116525) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901809)

The upgrade to OS X will cost $19.99 - only if you want the CD for it (I'm assuming it's a CD(s) with minimum documentation).

If you walk into an Apple store you'll get it for free, or if you really want to download it (through Software Update or otherwise) that will probably work as well.

Re:so I have to pay? (3, Informative)

Dark Paladin (116525) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901839)

Or I could be wrong - this is what they did last time for OS 10.1, and I'm not seeing anything like this for 10.2.

My apologies for shooting off my mouth and "assuming facts not in evidence".

Re:so I have to pay? (3, Informative)

lunenburg (37393) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901935)

I think you might be - what I took from the keynote was that the $20 upgrade pricing is ONLY for people who buy new Mac hardware between today and 8/24. Anyone else will have to pay the $129.

Re:so I have to pay? (2, Informative)

dair (210) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901844)

The $20 charge was only for people who've bought new hardware recently (possibly from today until the release). Everyone else will be paying full price, at least going by what was said today.


Re:so I have to pay? (1)

mh_tang (307188) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901848)

An article on the New York Times today might shed some light on this. L.html []

Free reg here []

Apparently Apple has not done so well financially for the 3rd quarter. Revenue is down 3 percent, worldwide PC sales in general are declining, the market is weak, and they had to lay off 7 percent of their employees in Sacramento. My guess is that they're looking for cash.

Re:so I have to pay? (1)

RealTC (536594) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901867)

Well actually thats not entirely true about OS X not being quite good enough for sole use on a Mac, in fact OS X is quite good and stable, more stable than OS 9x. Its because there are more titles for OS9 than OSX that OS9 co-exists with OSX.
I mean to say, I dont think Apple would want to upset their customers by just shipping OS X with new macs and basically telling them "Sorry, you cannot run this app under OS X because it hasn't been ported yet".

Re:so I have to pay? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901891)

There was mention of a $19 update for certain cases, which you may fall under.

Also, it's not so much that 10 *can't* be used for everything because of bugs, but more that there's so much software for 9 out there, and the compatability for that depends on a working 9 install.

Oh, and all the old time users that want/need 9 for whatever reason (like audio software).

I just hope... (1)

Mr. Bundy (587176) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901913)

...that the "up to date" program will once again entail the trading in of a mac os X 10.1 coupon for an upgrade to Jaguar for $19.95. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (as if I need to say that here), but isn't that what they did for 10.1? I could've sworn that 10.1 was available for $19.95 when you used a 10.0 coupon. Pleaseopleaseoplease let it be so. Otherwise I'm hosed for a while. $129 for a "new" OS isn't in the budget just now.

Re:so I have to pay? (3, Flamebait)

Halo1 (136547) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901927)

Mac OS X had some bugs? No kidding. I'll tell you a secret, but make sure you don't tell it to anyone else: Mac OS X 10.2 will also have bugs! And 10.3, 10.4, 10.5 and whatever comes next also!! That's the case with every OS or application you'll ever buy. And it's not like the bugs in OS X were that numerous and intrusive they made the OS unusable (at least not for most people). If they were for you, then why on earth did you use it? Because Jobs said it was time to switch?

The main reason they still included Mac OS 9 was simply that a lot of people buying macs also had a Mac in the past and those people want to be able to still run older programs, which haven't (yet) been ported to Mac OS X, on their new computer. Backward compatibility, you know.

Finally, yes, the current/previous versions of Mac OS X are/were quite a bit slower than Mac OS 9 (although not in all regards, e.g. disk performance is already a lot better than in 9; it's mainly the GUI responsiveness imho), but otoh Mac OS X keeps getting faster and faster (and I hope 10.2 will solve this, for me, final issue). I for one am glad they first worked on stability and only then on optimizations. The way they're doing it now, you can really use the computer under OS X (I've barely booted in Mac OS 9 anymore since even Mac OS X Public Beta); if they'd done it the other way round, you'd be bitching even more I think.


Yeah I thought so (2, Interesting)

Uttles (324447) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901751)

Somehow I knew apple wasn't going to come out and just have the 17" Imac as it's headliner. That article from a few days ago "Microsoft one ups apple" was way off...

Umm (2)

crumbz (41803) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901752)

Where is the info on the 17" iMac in this article?

Re:Umm (2)

zaren (204877) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901775)

How about on apple's site? :)

Re:Umm (1)

mattyohe (517995) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901783) VERY pretty screen!

Re:Umm (1)

GedLandsEnd (537573) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901869)

That is one sweet screen. What I really want is the 23" Apple Cinema HD Display [] though. That plus a G4 will only run me what, $5000? Ouch.

the apple site art is now 10.2 widgets. (2, Redundant)

Mr. Quick (35198) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901772)

looks nice.

Don't forget the Notcha!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901774)

Apple can kiss my notcha. What's a notcha? The notcha is the area "in between." It's notcha balls, but notcha asshole either.

Re:Don't forget the Notcha!! (0, Offtopic)

arson1 (527855) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901787)

actually, that's called taint.

Erm, so having got the just bought a ibook... (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901777)

I now have to spend $129 on bug fixes! Un-fucking-believable.

Re:Erm, so having got the just bought a ibook... (1)

donkeyboy (191279) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901852)

I suspect that they'll have a cheap ($20 max) upgrade for OS X users.

Slashdot look/feel (2, Funny)

msheppard (150231) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901778)

Help! My PC has turned into a MAC! Oh wait, it's just the slashdot graphics that somehow changed for this article... does this mean my iPod will work with this machien now?


Re:Slashdot look/feel (1)

so1omon (577498) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901875)

if you had read the article, you would see that your ipod will indeed work with windows starting in august. you just have to use musicmatch, which is godawful, in my opinion.

New iMac Designed With Ancient Mathematical Secret (5, Interesting)

Jonathan Blocksom (139314) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901785)

The wide-screen iMac specs page [] gives the native
resolution of the 17" iMac as 1440x900. This is a 16:10 display ratio, which is about as
close as any monitor I know of gets to the
Golden Ratio [] , (1 + sqrt(5)/2), or approximately 1.618.

Clearly Apple is trying to channel Pyramid Power []
to sell more computers.

What I would like (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901789)

Mac OSX for PC!! Mac is great now.

Does Darwin work on x86 btw?

Darwin on x86 (2, Informative) (551216) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901906)

yes, Darwin is available for x86 platforms. However, you'll miss the great Aqua user interface that comes with OS X. You could run KDE3 [] , which is not as much fun...

those mac commercials almost have me hypnotized... (2)

edrugtrader (442064) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901794)

i was having some problems putting together a new cutting edge x86 system, and said fuck it. now i'm just pricing some G4s. apple, you have succeeded finally in convincing me to buy me first apple since my IIGS. (oh... you know i had the COLOR screen on that folks)

Re:those mac commercials almost have me hypnotized (1)

qurob (543434) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901930)

I was pricing out G4's...well used 400mhz models go for nearly $700, when I can build ONE HELL of a PC for that price. And the parts would be new.

Yeah, yeah, Macs are nice looking, well designed, etc etc. I'll probably just shell the $$ out for one.

Anyone know a good^H^H^H^Hcheap place to buy a 1-2 year old used Mac?

Pictures... (2)

danamania (540950) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901796)


All of a sudden this [] picture I did months ago seems all the more relevant...

a grrl & her server []

first non-WIPO troll (-1)

TweeKinDaBahx (583007) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901799)

This is not a WIPO troll.

I'd just like to say that every single person involved with slashteam is gay. Some are even pedophiles.

VA stock update?Last trade: 11:00am, $0.83 -2.39%

here [] is more info about the slashteam.

also, learn why Linux is becoming so popular here []

why am i a pretty munky munkey? BECAUSE MUNKEHS AER PRETEH!!! p:// %2e%6a%70%67


I wish i could make this troll better but I can't so SUCK IT!! is a fag.


So what? (3, Funny)

NiftyNews (537829) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901800)

"That's less than $1 for each major feature," he quipped."

Bah, I can get Windows XP for only $99 and get thousands of bugs^H^H^H^Hfeatures for my money!

iPod for Windows Makes thesupermikey happy (1)

thesupermikey (220055) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901801)

Ive been waiting for this since i 1st played with a good friend's ipod. He hads tryed all the windows work around but his mac works just so much better.

Windows iPod with a Mac? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901885)

How do they expect to get Windows users to switch to the Mac by giving them a seperate product that probably wouldn't continue to work if they decided to switch because of it.

What's the difference anyway? Is it because of the HFS thing, or is the packaging the only difference (4to6 pin FW adapter and Musicmatch on CD)? (1)

mattyohe (517995) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901804)

If you are curious about what was updated today, just go to [] and hit refresh a couple times... it will eventually scroll through Jaguar/Imac/Ipod/Itunes/etc...

Cheaper to Upgrade (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901807)

The upgrade for existing users is listed as $19.95. $129 is the full cost.

Re:Cheaper to Upgrade (2, Informative)

TexTex (323298) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901918)

Actually, the upgrade price of $19.95 is for people who have purchased a Mac after today that came with OS X 10.1. The Apple stores will probably be selling the most current versions right away but other distributers have that surplus of boxes sitting in the warehouse.

Current 10.1 users on old machines are stuck with the $129 price.

Seems rather odd they're actually making you pay for upgrading something new you've just bought. Usually Apple floats a 3 month grace period. Figure if you're buying a new machine, the OS should be new as well. Guess not.

"Switch" campaign is preaching to the choir (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901808)

The current Apple advertising campaign has been characterized by some as a bad way to get converts because of its negative tone. Many of those who have weighed in on the ads characterize the ads as "preaching to the choir". Frankly, the campaign has actually engendered a backlash against Apple as typified by the mocking found in this recent cartoon. []

isync = syncML (2)

johnjones (14274) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901812)

how are they doing the syncing of calender and contacts with phones ?


john jones

Re:isync = syncML (1)

CH-BuG (55283) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901898)

IrMC is (usually) accessible through Bluetooth.

And i'm screwed b/c my purchase was monday. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901819)

Oh well that's what i get for buying an apple.

Re:And i'm screwed b/c my purchase was monday. (1)

donkeyboy (191279) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901886)

Why? Does dell chase all of the UPS trucks down and switch out their shipping hardware?

That's cool!

Vorbis for iPod. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901820)

If the iPod did Vorbis, I'd be there in an instant. Since it doesn't, I've got no need for it.

Seriously, is there a petition or SOMETHING somewhere that we can sign to get Apple to take notice on this?

20 GB iPod is actually thicker... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901821)

Steve mentioned that the 10 GB iPod was thinner than the original, but didn't mention that the 20 GB iPod is actually thicker (and heavier) [] .

Good For Apple, Good For Us (3, Insightful)

enneff (135842) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901826)

Doesn't a demonstration of such kickass tech (especially the Bluetooth stuff) realised today for the consumer show just how many streets ahead Apple are?

This is all stuff that should exist under Windows, but doesn't. Apple has, after so many years, arrived at the point of equality (and now usurption) to everything else in the market - they can only produce better and better products.


Uh.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901832)

I'm pretty sure the part that says "Updates will be available in some cases for $19.99" refers to OS 10.1 users.

Re:Uh.. (2)

AnamanFan (314677) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901865)

Sorry. All documentation points to only people who buy a new mac from today (7-17-2002) on.

Believe me, I'm not too happy about it either.

MPEG-4 Stream (5, Interesting)

dhovis (303725) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901840)

Phil Schiller noted near the beginning that they had 50,000 streams going and 25,000 of them were using the MPEG-4 stream. I think he said that this was the largest MPEG-4 streaming session ever.

I was sitting at home using the MPEG-4 stream on my iBook 500 over 802.11b through my Linksys base station. The video didn't hiccup once, even as I walked around. I'm impressed. The picture wasn't huge, but it was pretty good quality, even viewed at 2x size. There may be hope for streaming video yet.

iSync looks pretty cool, too. Next time I upgrade my phone, I want to get one with Bluetooth so I can use it. I've tried using a Palm, but I don't need something that big. One of those Sony Ericsson phones would do me just fine for what I want a palm for. Contacts, calander, to do... I'm glad that there is an open standard (SyncML) to do it.

Oh, one more thing...

The 20GB iPod is not the same size as the 10GB model, it is a little thicker than the 5GB model.

Re:MPEG-4 Stream (2)

jamesoutlaw (87295) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901933)

I agree... the MPEG4 stream was great. I was expecting to get disconnected or to experience some stuttering or pausing- i did not experience any problems at all. They really did a good job of putting together a decent system for serving the stream. I wonder how many viewers they were planning for and if they met or exceeded their expectations?

CallerID Info (1)

dr00g911 (531736) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901841)

I'm pretty darned curious if the Address Book's built-in CallerID feature is only going to be supported via Bluetooth (yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool -- but how functional is that, really)?

Last I checked, Apple Internal Modems don't have the chipset to support gathering callerID info. There are lots of USB modems that do, however.

If this transitions over to desktop machines and the internal modem port, it'd be pretty neat 'cuz as Jobs said, the Address Book, and presumably, the caller ID hooks are an open API, used system-wide.

I'm seeing some pretty cool telephony apps with Web integration in my head that would be fairly simple to build, based on these foundations. Couple that with the standard Apache/PHP installation on X, and add in mySQL and perhaps a sprinkling of Applescript or C glue and you could do some massively cool stuff.

Thinking about getting a developer kit just to get the 10.2 seed a little early right now.


MacOSX on x86 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901850)

So Darwin has been ported, how hard can it be to port cocoa, etc so we can run OS X without expensive Mac hardware? I would think porting the kernel would be the hardest part...What's left, just the graphics libraries?

Cost of 17" Imac (2, Informative)

abouttime (542316) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901853)

The one thing I didnt hear in the speach was the price of the new iMac. Just looked at the apple store, its $1999.

Thank God for an update... (1, Troll)

pongo000 (97357) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901854)

...because my G4 running the "latest and greatest" 10.1.x has more downtime due to crashes, "unexpected errors," and reboots than my Windows machine. (This from apps either delivered with the Mac, or "built for OSX." And no, this isn't a troll -- I didn't plop down $2200 for the privilege of trolling /. -- just an observation from a less than happy Mac wanna-be convert.

When he said (1)

nervlord1 (529523) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901860)

When he said "Oh and one more thing.. its about the Imac" My excitement reached fever pitch, only to find out it was just a larger monitor.

Damn you steve! Damn you!

Question (2)

Mr_Silver (213637) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901861)

Jobs also announced Windows versions of iPod, synching with musicmatch and including a FireWire 6-to-4 pin cable.

Neat. Ummm, at the risk of sounding stupid, what is a 6-to-4 pin cable?

It's just a pity that my major source of bandwidth is at work and they'd never ever let me open up my machine to stick in a firewire card :(

Re:Question (1)

dair (210) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901896)

The 6 pin connector is found on Macs and the iPod, and uses 2 pins for power (the iPod can be charged while it's syncing with a Mac).

The 4 pin connector is a different shape, doesn't have the two power pins, and is normally what you see on camcorders (and I guess some PCs).


Re:Question (5, Informative)

mccalli (323026) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901908)

Ummm, at the risk of sounding stupid, what is a 6-to-4 pin cable?

Some firewire interfaces, notably Sony's iLink and most laptops, don't provide power to the ports. These normally take a four-pin cable rather than a six-pin cable. Six-pins carry the full power.

Basically, he's saying that it's easier to plug in your Sony DV gear now.


Re:Question (4, Informative)

jht (5006) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901924)

A lot of Wintel boxes (especially laptops) only have a 4-pin variant of the Firewire port, that doesn't provide power to the bus. All Macs use the full 6-pin version that powers the bus and recharges the iPod directly.

So an adapter's needed for the Windows version else they may not be able to connect.

Is there a plan for these version numbers? (2, Funny)

crazyeddie (137560) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901868)

What I want to know is, looking into the future, what happens when a really big update comes along? Will they stay with 10.x forever, or will there be something more than point releases? "OS XI"? "OS X 11"? (I could foresee some confusion there!)


Re:Is there a plan for these version numbers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901893)

Yeah, that is probably coming from someone that gets confused with the left and the right shoe.

A Trend (1)

Qnal (593075) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901873)

iTunes 3 is out today, with new features such as rating songs, keeping track of how often songs are played, playing back all songs at the same volume

Fine Print:Your listening habits will probably be sent to an advertiser

iChat, the new instant messaging program, and iCal, the new shared calendar program, can work with the $100-per-year .mac subscription

Fine Print:Microsoft made us put that in, thats where they helped, eh..some of that Software as Service crap...

hmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901874)

"Also introduced were iTunes 3, iPod updates, iChat, iCal, iSync, a 17" iMac, and a lot more"

iSee iDoBelieve iSeethe light now.

If they are charging 1 dollar per feature.... (2)

cOdEgUru (181536) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901882)

If everyone started doing this, interesting scenarios/questions emerge..

1) Would Apple let users to substract one dollar per bug as they are discovered ?

2) Would Microsoft start paying their users to use Longhorn ?

3) Somebody please tell me why Linux is free ?

Flamebait/OffTopic/Troll..Is that all you got???

No iMac switch to DVD+RW (2)

mccalli (323026) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901883)

I'm slightly disappointed not to read about DVD+RW as an option in iMacs. DVD-RW seems to have lost the battle, and I would have thought that now would be a good time to make the switch.

I think I've mentioned before - I'd love to get a new iMac, but lack of software is holding me back. Not the generalised moan you often hear about, but three specific areas:

  • No UK version of Quicken (absolutely crucial to me)
  • Remote desktop display is a $200 extra.
  • No standards-compliant video conferencing under OSX

Sadly, I have to conclude the iMac is still not a viable machine for me. Damned shame - I'd love to get one otherwise.


The Good, the Bad, and the Indifferent (5, Informative)

jht (5006) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901884)


- iPod upgrades and price cuts.
- iPod for Windows
- Jaguar before Labor Day
- All the new software tools
- Wide-screen iMac!
- Price cut on the old Superdrive iMac (though that's the original price pre-hike)
- iSync - way cool
- .Mac - nice new features


- The new iMac is still PC100/800 MHz
- No "upgrade edition" of Jaguar. A $49 or around that version of Jaguar that would only install over an existing MacOS X install would be good. I should get some bonus for being an early user.
- .Mac pricing. There should be a scaled-back free edition, like the other services providers offer. I expounded on this in a comment on the initial .Mac thread earlier today.
- No support for either USB 2.0 or Firewire 2 yet. Introducing the new iMac with that would have been nice.


- The iPod accessory kits (pretty much all available in the 3rd party market already)
- The pricing of the new iMac
- The lack of changes to the other price points (I was expecting across-the-board iMac price cuts, but no biggie)

pudge : it rhymes with "fudge" (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901895)

Say this fast 3 times:
pudge facker fudge packer,
pudge facker fudge packer,
pudge facker fudge packer

Pretty Happy (2)

jamesoutlaw (87295) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901899)

I was pretty happy with the announcements at MacWorld NY today. I was really surprised that Apple has added Windows support for the iPod. It will be interesting to see how many of these they sell once it's available.
I watched the MPEG4 stream with QuickTime 6 on OSX... it was fantastic- no stuttering, no hiccups, the sound was good and the quality of the movie itself was great.

iAi, iai, iai (4, Funny)

Anonymous Cowtard (573891) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901902)

iI ithink ithat ithey iare itaking ithis i'i' inaming ithing ito ifar.

er, about this iPod... (1)

altgrr (593057) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901912)

I've seen a fair few overinflated claims before, but a scroll wheel with no moving parts is an impossibility. Unless the wheel doesn't move, in which case it's just no damn good.

A grim connection (0, Redundant)

hoowee (581244) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901917)

Could all this have to do with this [] by any chance?

Now only if (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901922)

Mac had the technology for a 2 button mouse. Man, that would be sweet.

No matter how good it gets, it's still a Mac. email still free? (2)

macsox (236590) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901925)

looking at the .mac homepage [] , it appears that the $50/first year will provide a "full email" account and that a "full account" gives you more idisk storage. it doesn't say the free accounts are going away.

am i looking in the wrong place?

Stupid 17"..... (2)

BMonger (68213) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901932)

It sure would be nice if they had announced that I could spend like... $500 to get my 15" screen "switch"ed (HA!) to a 17" widescreen... oh well... once my flatpanel iMac becomes really obsolete I'll just buy their wearable computer that they will be selling in 2005...

Once again UK users pay over the odds.. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901934)

with the 17" imac coming in at £1,649.00 in the UK, yet the US price being $1,999.00 which is £1,274.54. So why the £374.46 price difference? UK compaines manage to sell goods to the USA at pretty much the same price as the domestic market-and if they do not there is troble.

A small side-note : GCC 3 (5, Interesting)

mcc (14761) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901937)

Just one little interesting tidbit i noticed that is getting kind of lost in the noise: Did anyone else notice the little note on the Jaguar [] page? Apparently the 10.2 developer tools use GCC 3.1!

I found this interesting, as i had heard that the bulk of the linux distributions had not yet managed to migrate to GCC 3. Neat to see Apple is staying on top of this whole UNIX-technology thing :)

Those "switch" ads (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3901939)

Bullshit. I'll be convinced when they say "I'm Joe Blow, and I'm a computer gamer."

It'll never fucking happen, and I don't want to hear from you Mac hippies that "Steve is making an effort and the games are coming just as soon as the are released on the PC!" Bullfuckingshit. We've been hearing about the rebirt of Mac gaming for 10 fucking years now. Jobs can kiss my notcha.

The Street Hates It (2)

Schlemphfer (556732) | more than 12 years ago | (#3901941)

The NASDAQ is up as I write this, an hour or so after Steve's keynote. But Apple stock is down 13%.
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