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Sili-Hudson Valley?

Hemos posted more than 12 years ago | from the building-the-new-new-thing dept.

Hardware 397

guttentag writes "The New York Times reports Sematech (the international consortium of computer chip makers that turned Austin, TX into a tech center) plans to turn Albany, NY into a research hub. The consortium, which represents IBM, Intel, Motorola, HP, TI, AMD, Philips and others, will put up $193 million for the project while New York State will supply the remaining $210 million. The really unusual thing about the deal is that the state isn't offering any tax breaks or loans to lure the consortium to its capital. Why are they so excited about a location that is over 100 miles from their nearest constituent company (IBM)?"

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CLiT (-1)

L0rdkariya (562469) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910118)

Alive and well, you fucking censor motherfuckers.

Re:CLiT (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910347)

shut up bitch

Re:CLiT (-1)

neal n bob (531011) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910485)

youse a pimp dawg. keep it real.

suck it down you smelly hippie fruits.

*BSD is dying by poopbot (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910131)

It is now official. Netcraft confirms: *BSD is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin [] to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

Fact: *BSD is dying

- posted by poopbot: information likes to be narrow

KOIEhTJWfe Post #271

Escape from Silicon Valley (5, Insightful)

Skyshadow (508) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910147)

Affordible housing, jobs, stability, light traffic, companies with reasonable hours, good schools... All the same things that we in the Silicon Valley have to offer...

(pauses, frowns)

Re:Escape from Silicon Valley (1)

homer_ca (144738) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910244)

Let's see what happens to your affordable housing and light traffic after the high tech building boom gets done with the town. And in the end, you'll still be stuck with that lovely upstate NY weather.

Re:Escape from Silicon Valley (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910411)

Eh... considering Albany is just about dead center of New York state, in terms of north/south, I wouldn't exactly call it 'upstate' in the typical sense. Well, unless you go by the "If it's north of New York City, then it's upstate New York" system... And the weather isn't that bad unless you get up into the Adirondacks(sp?)...

Re:Escape from Silicon Valley (1)

lucabrasi999 (585141) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910509)

Upstate is anything North of Yankee Stadium.

Re:Escape from Silicon Valley (2, Insightful)

Jucius Maximus (229128) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910249)

"Affordible housing, jobs, stability, light traffic, companies with reasonable hours, good schools... All the same things that we in the Silicon Valley have to offer... "

Big companies are mroe and more often setting up near small communities because the cost of living in extremely populated areas is astronomical. If they set up in San Francisco, the workers will demand very high wages because of the cost of living.

If they set up closer to smaller cities, the cost of living and therefore cost of employees is lower as well. In the small-medium town (~100K people) where I live, lots of factories and office-oriented companies are setting up nearby because of the low cost of living, attractive locale for people (i.e. small numbers of murders), lack of inner city gangs, low traffic levels, lower property taxes, friendly neighbourhoods, etc. This is driving the population up rapidly and new housing developments are appearing in areas which only a year ago were remote farm fields.

Re:Escape from Silicon Valley (2)

Pxtl (151020) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910340)

Then they take the small-medium town and surround it with a million miles of suburban sprawl. Build some freakin' condoes at least - and not everybody needs an acre. Its just ridiculous what they do to the landscape surrounding these towns.

I have friends who grew up in those places. Unless you have your own car and license, you must be chauffeured, or you get no life.

I'm happy I grew up in a big, stinky, industrial city. Sure, it probably ain't good for my lungs, but I didn't spend 80% of my childhood bugging my folks to drive me to the mall.

Re:Escape from Silicon Valley (-1)

CLIT (581942) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910259)

Just one difference. Rents for office space in Silicon Valley are through the roof. Albany might be a good choice for any company wishing to cut costs.

Re:Escape from Silicon Valley (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910269)

I live in Albany, and the housing isn't so affordable, the traffic isn't that light, jobs are easier to come by down state, and the hours are no more reasonable here than elsewhere. Can't speak much to the quality of the schools though.

Re:Escape from Silicon Valley (2)

Oculus Habent (562837) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910477)

But soon the jobs will be as easy to come by there.

I believe it is an issue of employee potential vs cost. People who live in sparsely-populated (or at least not heavily populated) areas are more likely to travel a short distance to work (the necessity of being nowhere, I know) and you don't have to deal with many of the costs of city-based business.

When Walt Disney bought land for Disneyland, it was an orange field in the middle of nowhere. Plenty of space to do whatever you want. So, if you are building a massive reseach hub, you can put in a campus with space for lakes and bike paths and trees, and whatever else you choose.

Try doing that in LA, NYC, DC, Austin, etc.

Dromi [] - They name everything.

Re:Escape from Silicon Valley (1)

EvilBudMan (588716) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910309)

We have something better than that down south. Cheap Labor! I wish the would come down here in the boonies and bring broadband with them.

Re:Escape from Silicon Valley (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910317)

Maybe they are going to develop things with a dangerously high energy density/throughput and don't want to take out their headquarters in case of a mistake? Next generation processors and the required battery technology perhaps...

I don't understand (1)

Uttles (324447) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910169)

If you're going to single a place out and make it into a technology hub, why not go somewhere like James Island, SC? The cost of living is low, and you're right on the ocean, and very close to the beaches and bars of Charleston, SC... WTF

Re:I don't understand (2, Funny)

idfrsr (560314) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910210)

....because technology geeks have no need for distractions like "oceans", "beaches" and "bars"

I wouldn't want my research monkeys running around a beach scaring the fish...

Re:I don't understand (1)

agutier (471583) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910330)

Also, you don't want to set up your research hub too close to a big city. There is too much competition for comptuer talent.

If you set up a research hub in the middle of nowhere, you won't have competition for your talent. If you can get your high paid researchers to move out into the sticks and enjoy the quite life, you only have to defend against the few other tech companies, rather than all of the industry found in Charleston, or as someone else requested, San Dieago.

Re:I don't understand (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910257)

Because SC is full of rednecks. They'll get things done more efficiently in NY simply because the people can think quicker.

Re:I don't understand (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910262)

Umm, because it's in South Carolina.

Re:I don't understand (3, Informative)

lucabrasi999 (585141) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910466)

The reason they aren't putting it in Charleston, SC is because Albany has RPI, Syracuse University, Cornell, NYU, Columbia, Yale, MIT and a whole slew of SUNY colleges all within about a three hour drive.

SC has Clemson and a bunch of Cocks (Gamecocks, that is).

It's about time (1)

Palshife (60519) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910171)

I went to school in Troy, NY at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute [] , and the've been talking about this kind of expansion before. I believe, however, that there's been some resistance from the local population because they're afraid of pollution.

However, I think people will change their tune when they realize how many jobs something like this will create. And believe me, the capital region of NY can use all the jobs it can get.

Re:It's about time (2)

TWR (16835) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910277)

As an RPI grad myself, I am stunned that anyone in Troy would worry about polution. The Hudson isn't exactly the cleanest river around. Didn't GE in Schenectady dumb a few billion tons of PCBs into the river right around there?

Troy was a mess when I was there years ago. I can't imagine that it's gotten better in the meantime.

This would be great news for RPI, though.


Re:It's about time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910336)

I'm currently half way through my junior year at RPI. Please god let this happen soon.

Re:It's about time (1)

Corby911 (250281) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910408)

As a current RPI [] student, I can say it hasn't gotten much better. We make jokes about throwing things onto the Hudson, not into it. Troy has earned its nickname as "the armpit of New York". However, if this brings the focus of RPI back on its largest majors (EE & CSYS), I'm all for it.

Re:It's about time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910407)

Troy is the armpit of New York. (Really! Look at a map--it's at the confluence of the Mohawk and the Hudson.)

Capital district (2)

ProfBooty (172603) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910453)

Yes NY state taxes are high, but housing is very cheap in the Albany area. Traffic is very light. There is plenty of land to be developed and a good amount of empty buildings. Population is somewhere around 600k+ there as well.

You have one of the top engineering schools in the country RPI (NOT RIT) which consistantly is ranked by working engineers as one of the top 3 (Beating out MIT). General Electric is nearby and IBM is about 1.5 hours away. There is plenty of underused infrastructure (highways and cable) and an international airport nearby.

For recreation, you are 30-40 miles from both vermont and massachuessess so its easy to go skiing, lake george is 1 hour away and its about 2.5 hours to boston or NYC (3-4 to montreal).

It doesn't snow too much up there, but ice is a concern in the winter.

On a side note during my years at RPI i read that Troy has a population of 50k. I'm not sure where they all live though. Troy could use the money, last time i was there, the city Hall still read Tr city hall.

ugh (0, Flamebait)

Zanek (546281) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910178)

Why dont consortiums like this put up money to create research hubs in places people ACTUALLY want to go (ie: near Miami, San Diego).
Who the hell wants to move out to the sticks in NY to do research ?
I think they would get more people if they moved it closer to a big city where people would have more to do on their off time, than tip cows on the weekends.
Why not start a research hub in South Dakota, researchers would love to move there.

Re:ugh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910231)

Some of us researchers actually WANT to live in the country and hate the fact that we can only find jobs of our type in big cities.

Not everyone loves the bright lights, big city.

Re:ugh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910273)

Believe it or not, there are some of us research scientists who *DO* want to live in the sticks, and hate the fact that we usually have to move to a big city to find work in our area of interest.

I grow up in an extremely rural area. I'd love to move back to that type of environement. Peaceful, good place to raise a family, etc. I can't find a job in my niche field in the country, but I'd snap one up if I could.

Bright-lights, big-city isn't for everyone.

Re:ugh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910298)

Actually, I have worked in collaborations with some folk at RPI. The occasional trips to "Albania" as we called it weren't too bad. To boot, there's a pretty good brew pub in Troy.

Re:ugh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910379)

screw you, out in the sticks. All of NY state(minus) new york city is not the sticks. AND BTW, long island is 'known' for its big city feel, being next to the city, but there are alot of farms on long island.

Re:ugh (1)

c-town (571657) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910422)

I think it's actually a good move. I was recently out there for 3 months on business and I'm from the bay area. Granted it might be the middle of nowhere but once technology moves in, you know things will start popping up. Look at Austin as an example. When technology moved into Austin, all sorts of new things came up. That and the UT college girls are there too ;). Once people move out there for jobs, things will naturally pop up.

However, the big thing about being out there is NY city itself. Yahoo maps say it's a 3 hour drive in but I'll bet you can drive and take Metro North [] in 2 and half hours. New York City is definitely worth the drive. San Francisco is a small and boring place compared to NYC. There are definitely more diverse food and more arts. Tons of clubbing in Manhattan, but I'm sure it doesnt interest most of the /. crowd =).

East coast is definitely a lot more beautiful than Silicon Valley, and there are actual seasons! A bonus point goes to Bay Area for good weather though. I think overall, it'll definitely become the next Silicon ________ (Hudson maybe?)

Besides, if people are willing to move out to Texas, I dont think upstate New York is any worse.

Does Distance Matter? (3, Insightful)

idfrsr (560314) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910184)

Why are they so excited about a location that is over 100 miles from their nearest constituent company (IBM)?

Does it matter how far you are away now things like distributed systems, video conference calls and such are making the distance less and less of a practical issue.

Re:Does Distance Matter? (3, Informative)

Ioldanach (88584) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910241)

Why are they so excited about a location that is over 100 miles from their nearest constituent company (IBM)?

Don't forget there are a few good colleges around here. Among them is RPI [] , which I recall being one of the first to get a chip going over 1GHz (1.2 GHz if I recall, before it melted). Add to that SUNY Albany, which is a pretty good state school, and there's GE Power Systems down the street, as well as Plug Power (Fuel Cell developers). Quite a few technical developments have come out of this area.

Within Reason (2)

Skyshadow (508) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910420)

I'd say distance doesn't matter so much as long as you have a decent communications infrastructure and are in the same or immediately adjacent time zones.

I've found things really suck when, say, you're trying to work on the east coast and west coast (much less having people overseas) -- it's tough getting people together for meetings, tough to have people travel back and forth (you pretty much always lose a day flying west-to-east three time zones, whereas you can get between, say, San Jose and Boulder rather easily).

But man, if I never have to work directly with another set of developers in India, it'll be too soon -- that was just a nightmare.

It is a good location. (1)

Herger (48454) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910191)

There has been talk about locating a semiconductor research center for years. Land is cheap, it's an easy drive to Boston and NYC (and IBM's HQ in Armonk, as noted). Plus, you have a reliable supply of labor (full-time and co-op) from nearby engineering school RPI [] (wonder why they're not involved?)

Re:It is a good location. (1)

Palshife (60519) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910251)

As an alum, I can only guess that RPI had something to do with lobbying for this. This would really revitalize the area and provide some possible research opporunities for the computer engineering department.

Basically, if theyre not involved now, they will be. Go figure, 2 months after I graduate...

NY is just better (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910193)

I've been out west a number of times, but nor do i live in "the city". NY people are not flaming liberals people out west are and things get done here.

Great! (0)

asdqaz (594017) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910195)

I think that this is an excellent move for them. With the kind of broadband technology we have today, distance is beginning to matter less, and less.

Re:Great! (1)

jeanluisdesjardins (577209) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910307)

If everyone is going to telecommute anyway, then why bother with building such a place at all... I agree with everyone else, I think if something like this is going to be built, then build it somewheres cool... I am currently unemployed, and I am applying for any job that has a great location (i.e. Hawaii!) If the job ain't that great, the location can make a big difference in my personal happiness...

p.s. hire me []

Thanks a lot, Sematech, for ruining Austin (1)

smcdow (114828) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910199)

As a an old-timer that has lived in Austin since way before Sematech and the subsequent tech-boom, I can safely say that whatever coolness that exists in the Hudson Valley will be utterly gone in 10-15 years.

Be careful what you ask for.

Re:Thanks a lot, Sematech, for ruining Austin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910228)

i'm curious: does the tech-boom have anything to do with the half-finished 5 year old road work in south austin? trying to get anywhere with the shitty feeder roads is bad enough, but the intersections and left turns are all fucked up due to the half-finished on-ramps and such.

Re:Thanks a lot, Sematech, for ruining Austin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910256)

Let's be honest: Austin was never very cool. Why would you move to Texas to live in a town that acts like its in California?

If you want the CA attitude, move to the SF bay area. If you move to Texas, act like it.

Re:Thanks a lot, Sematech, for ruining Austin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910359)

Move to California? Thanks, you can keep your mudslides, earthquakes, sink holes, forest fires, highway shootings, elecricity crises, questionable state government deals with large software companies, outrageous cost of living, state income taxes, cold weather... shall I go on?

Austin may not be "very cool" to you, but we like it here. :-)

You forgot... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910409)

Self-important Hollywood-types, rampant unchecked liberalism, unbelievably shitty traffic, arrogance....

Re:Thanks a lot, Sematech, for ruining Austin (2)

TWR (16835) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910301)

The only coolness in the Hudson Valley area is the frigid temperatures that start right after Labor Day and end the day after finals at RPI...


really unusual thing??? (1)

sloth jr (88200) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910205)

uh -- don't you say in one breath that New York State is kicking in $200M, while wondering what could have possessed the companies to choose New York in the absence of tax incentives or loan?

Just off the top-of-my-head, but don't you think $200M is enough money to make YOUR company open a research facility?

Albany (1)

ThereIsNoSporkNeo (587688) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910208)

They chose Albany because no one notices what is going on in Albany. They can get away with their secret plans of world domination without anyone being the wiser.

Any day now people in Albany will start complaining about the people next door shouting "IT'S ALIVE!!! ALIVE!!!" at all hours of the morning.

Distance (1)

URoRRuRRR (57117) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910211)

Perhaps they like the location *because* it's 100 miles away from the nearest constituant. Not only is it deemed "neutral" by all companies, but people from those companies can visit the center, then relax in albany, citing travel time and other factors for them not being able to return to work.

Re:Distance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910326)

Hahaha, "relax in Albany" :)

I grew up there. I'm guessing you've never been.

Why? - Answer (1)

Fascist Christ (586624) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910213)

Why are they so excited about a location...

So that they can make their chips with SilAlbany and cheese.

why would they move? (4, Informative)

Maeryk (87865) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910216)

Well, Albany is nicely located in NYS. Its also close enough to Canada that drawing people over the border to work there is feasible. Add to that the fact that its not a terrible part of the country weather/climate wise. (We dont get earthquakes, typhoons, torrential flooding, mudslides, wildfires a-la the west, and damn few tornados) and you have a safe place for your busines.

It is also considered NE corridor (or close to it) and they can probably suck in a lot of people who have been downsized/lost here due to the horrible economical situations of late. Many people probably wouldnt relocate to California or Texas, but might move an hour west to be in Albany from NYC.

Plus, you get all the people from NYC who dont want to live IN NYC but want to be close enough to visit.

I live about 2.5 hours from NYC, and we have people living here who work there, and *drive* there daily. the number of cars that sat empty in train and bus station lots after 9-11 kind of pointed that one home pretty hard.

Its not a bad part of the country.. NY state may also have much more lenient laws on things like pollution, building, etc etc. Probably lower land prices has a lot to do with it as well. And lower taxes.


Re:why would they move? (1)

Ioldanach (88584) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910297)

It is also considered NE corridor (or close to it) and they can probably suck in a lot of people who have been downsized/lost here due to the horrible economical situations of late. Many people probably wouldnt relocate to California or Texas, but might move an hour west to be in Albany from NYC.
Um... actually, you'd move 3 hours north to be in Albany. (Or 2.5, depending on how fast you drive) :) My wife's dad works in NYC and lives 2 hours south, and he takes the train in from where he lives. Also, if you want to live just north of Poughkeepsie, an hour south of Albany, you can catch the commuter train into NYC or commute up to Albany if it isn't snowing too hard. Very centrally located, and IBM has a research center there.

Re:why would they move? (1)

Zelet (515452) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910346)

IBM is also building a new 3 Billion microchip plant (I believe) right outside of Poughkeepsie. Maybe they are going to do some engineer sharing between the two plants.

P.S. Poughkeepsie is a shitty city. Don't live there. Albany is really pretty though.

Re:why would they move? (1)

zrodney (253699) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910474)

Add to that the fact that its not a terrible part of the country weather/climate wise. (We dont get earthquakes, typhoons, torrential flooding, mudslides, wildfires a-la the west, and damn few tornados)

as someone who lived in Albany for many years
and went to school nearby (Troy), then moved
to Mountain View (now Santa Cruz)...

I have to say that the weather is much more brutal
in Albany. The one earthquake here caused no
damage vs the snow storms, thunderstorms, tornadoes
and even the occasional earthquake in NY.

Re:why would they move? (2)

Sabalon (1684) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910516)

Given that people don't really like to live in the city as much as commute in (not that Albany is that huge, but a house beats an apartment for any family oriented person), what are the conditions outside of Albany?

When we visit the in-laws, we fly into Albany and head about an hour east...very depressing some parts - mountain "towns" that have nothing other than maybe a gas station.

I know that right across the hudson, you've got things like Schnectedy (why do towns in NY have to be so hard to spell?) and it didn't seem that bad - but usually we just drive through. Didn't seem like someplace I'd like to live, then again driving through on the main roads, you usually just see the business areas and houses with crummy location...could be some nice areas right off the road.

Then again, Poughkeepsie, Red Hook, New Paltz, etc... isn't that far out of the way to be ruled out either. Especially with the train.

About the only thing (and it's what keeps my wife from moving back) is the winters. Some people just hate the cold and snow.

But I'm all for seeing New England revitalizing itself. Too many little towns (like where my wife is from) that are beautiful locations, but with the mills that closed, they just can't support an economy.

RTP, North Carolina (1)

stevenbdjr (539653) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910221)

Why are they so excited about a location that is over 100 miles from their nearest constituent company (IBM)?

I'm sure people asked the same kinds of questions when Research Triangle Park [] was being put together by a multitude of companies. Now it's one of the best places to live in America for technology workers.

Why? Lithography research alliance with SUNY. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910229)

"Plans for a joint five-year $320M program to accelerate the development of next generation lithography were announced today by International SEMATECH (ISMT) and The University at Albany-SUNY (UAlbany)." Lithographic technology is critical to improving chip performance. (full text) []

Why? (1)

sulli (195030) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910230)

Why are they so excited about a location that is over 100 miles from their nearest constituent company (IBM)?

Why did the Dodgers move to Los Angeles? Cold, hard cash.

why not? (2)

Dalroth (85450) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910240)

What's wrong with Albany New York? I hate to say this, but New York City, L.A. and San Francisco/Silcon Valley are *NOT* the center of this vast and great country of ours!

We have thousands of cities across 50 states that could all just as easily serve this purpose. Quite frankly, I find it really refreshing that other people/places in this country is being given a chance.

Not everything has to be (nor should it be) congregated into one small hub. That's how companies and governments die (think of those poor companies who were housed 100% in the WTC buildings as an example). Our tech industry SHOULD be spread across the country, it's too important to be otherwise.

Sili-Hudson Valley? (3, Funny)

Lev13than (581686) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910260)

I hear their next project is to turn Churchill, Manitoba into Sili-Hudson's Bay.

high-tech NY campaign & job listings (1)

mkbz (317881) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910265)

check out [] for info & job listings!

TECH VALLEY YEAH! (5, Insightful)

dasmegabyte (267018) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910267)

I live in Tech Valley, (Wynantskill, actually) and I can tell you a few of the reasons why it's so popular:

1) Though taxes are high, the cost of living and operating are low -- at least 20-30% lower than in NYC. Which means you can offer an employee less money and it'll be worth more to them. Insurance is also cheaper.

2) Tons of infrastructure. A lot of big fat unfettered pipes and buildings waiting to be filled.

3) Nice setting. Those pictures of your corporate headquarters at the top of a rolling green hill surrounded by trees sure beat the arrow-pointing-to-an-office-floor stuff some people have to deal with. We've got nice sprawl for your employees, too (not a good thing if you, as i do, live on the street leading to the sprawl, but there you are).

4) RPI. RPI graduates tons of brilliant tech youths with experience in wierd technology. RPI honors and grad students create all sorts of brilliant tech advances, and when they get their sheepskins they'll need some place to hole out for 20-30 years. A wise tech company grabs them while they're young and cheap...we have a dozen consulting companies around for this reason; hell, even Microsoft has a recruitment office here.

5) Dude, you're 2 hours from Canada, 2 hours from the City, 2 hours from the shore, Cape Cod in the summer, Vermont in the's nice in NY man.


Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910403)

6) And only 10 minutes from the hood. Watch out! Muthafuckas will jack you in Arbor Hill.

Re:TECH VALLEY YEAH! (-1, Troll)

Snarfvs Maximvs (28022) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910417)


Please. RPI was my absolute-last-resort safety school.

Re:TECH VALLEY YEAH! (0, Flamebait)

wpjmurray (594069) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910456)

You are SOOOO smart! Asshole.

Re:TECH VALLEY YEAH! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910478)

for what? management?

RPI is consitantly ranked overall in the 40's for all programs offered in the US. its usually ranked in the top 3-5 engineering programs among practing engineers (not princton review which includes things like endowments, bet you didnt know that MIT is pass/fail first year)

if you want cs, goto CMU, but if you want engineering RPI is one of the top

Re:TECH VALLEY YEAH! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910418)

Definitely great news for the area. Definitely have the infrastructure in place between RPI and SUNY Albany. However there's one element that's missing that Pataki and Jerry Jennings (Albany's mayor) are going to have to pay attention to in order for things to take off. And that's the quality of life for those 20 to young 30-somethings that said tech companies are going to want to siphon of as they graduate. Albany's great for people raising a family, but they're missing the culture/leisure opportunities of larger cities. See Salon for a similar take : Be Creative or Die []

How about the $210 million? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910270)

I think $210 million dollars is enough incentive to get anyone to move there. I mean, they're paying for more than half the project!

Why? It's simple! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910286)


lots of hookers!

RPI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910290)

I go to RPI, and there are quite a few VERY smart, talented people here. Many of my friends work for small tech companies right now, and there is a LOT of talent in the area, as many graduates stay in the area. In addition, it's a very affordable place to live with a fair amount to do if you like the outdoors at all.

I, for one, have no desire to move anywhere NEAR California, and would love to stay in the Capital District if I could find a decent job there when I graduate.

The Albany Hub (1, Insightful)

Joe U (443617) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910291)

100 miles is nothing when you have several large rail corridors sitting next to your plant.

Albany is a rail hub with low cost for building and housing. You can ship products (or people) to NYC in under 2.5 hours. Or Armonk (IBM) in about an hour. It's also very easy and cheap to ship to Chicago, NJ, PA, CT, MA.

Albany is a wonderland for a manufacturer.
The only thing is, I'm not sure how much manufacturing will be going on here.

I know the _real_ reason (1)

cfreel (594067) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910302)

It's a certain prof. A. Kaloyeros, of the SUNY Albnay physics dept. I worked for him as an undergrad, and he was doing groundbreaking research in materials science. (I probably shoulda stayed working there and done my grad work there, but no.... I thought I was gonna do optics :-p oh well). Trust me, he's built quite a program there from nothing (most of the other faculty was rather envious of him when I left in 93, I can only imagine how it is now). I'm not sure how much credit he gets, but I know that he was near the front of the pack in the process that eventually resulted switching conductive materials within chips to copper (everything was Al until very recently; it's easy to work with, but copper has a lower resistivity, so it generates less heat... tougher to work with, though...). Wonder if I'll ever end up back in Albany, now that they'll actually be some jobs there. :^) Chrisf

RPI (2)

!splut (512711) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910303)

They'd have a steady steady supply of applicants from local universities. Particularly I'm thinking of RPI, which is just across the river in Troy, and has excellent CS and engineering programs...

And it's a beautiful area. Near the adirondacs and catskills. Near Lage George. A freshly dredged Hudson River (new lower PCB content!). 3 hour trainride to NYC, but without the big city drawbacks.

It has all the requirements for an excellent technological hub. Plus snowstorms that drop a good two feet of snow in February, which is really something the Silicon Valley currently lacks.

Re:RPI (1)

limited (17574) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910440)

I'll second this RPI comment, as I will be attending there next year. While Troy and Albany may not be the cleanest or neatest city in the Northeast, it does have several advantages over other places. Albany is centrally located in relation to other cities, just over 3 hours from Boston and NYC, and maybe 5 or 6 to Buffalo. Lots of recreational activities, Adirondacks and Lake George are just a short trip up the Northway(I-87). More importantly, this area needs jobs. Anyone who lives in this area and has seen downtown Schenectady lately (Home of GE) knows that the city has seen it's heyday. Higher taxes and a lack of modern companies seem to be repelling college graduates from staying in the area. My current town, Guilderland has a population of 30,000 people, 40% of which are senior citiziens. Its scary for a teenager to live in a town where politics are dominated by a demographic 4 times your age. I would guess that the largest employer around here is New York State itself. If Pataki can manage to bring those jobs here, it would be a virtual revival to the Capital District. I would love to stay in the area after college, but as experienced by one of my good friends, an MIS major from SUNY Albany- there are just no jobs here. Hopefully in 6-8 years, I can walk through the streets and be reminded of the days when GE kept this area on top. (Except, without all the pollution this time)

factors (1)

Abj (50365) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910332)

There are many other factors to consider other than tax-breaks. If you're thinking the only factors that matter are money, you're right. But there are other ways to save money, like perhaps state tax breaks, that whole $210 million investment from the state, good corporate law (why do you think every company is incorporated in Delaware?).

Personally, however, I think Charleston, WV would be the best place. Extremely, extremely low cost of living, incredibly low crime, and half the US population lives within 500 miles of it.

Infrastucture. (1)

GodInHell (258915) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910343)

The Power, Tele-com, Water Supply, etc for New York City comes from all over northern New York,

Coincidentally enough, the easiest route for such is right down the hudson valley. There aren't many places in the country with that kind of already-established power and communications resources.

I'm from poughkeepsie, IBM has an old interest in the area, lots of old corporate gold clubs, resteraunts, etc. The weather is reasonable, the living is cheaper than along the coast, and hey, It's New York.

Damn, now I'm homesick.

Proud to live in Chicago, Where Flat takes on a whole new meaning.

IBM and hudson valley... (2)

powerlinekid (442532) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910374)

Ok, I work at IBM. My father works at IBM. Good number of my friend's parents work at IBM. IBM is single handedly the most influencial and important business in this area (dutchess, ulster county roughly an hour from albany). When they layed off all those people in the early 90s, our economy went to shit. Many people I know were layed off, closing one plant (kingston) and cutting back in the poughkeepsie plant and east fishkill plants. A few thoughts on why albany. One would be that its the closest large city to here, for convention center and office buildings. NYC is further and more of a hassle. Poughkeepsie, which i believe has a population of 50-100 thousand, is a dump. Yeah there are some nice parts, and I would absolutely love for it to be here (more job opportunities) but its really not that kind of city. Albany also is pretty much the center of the state. If it was NYC, the rochester (Eastman/Kodac, RIT, etc) people would have quite a trip, same for the buffalo people (not to mention Massachusetts, Connecticut, etc). It seems to me that all and all Albany probably is the most logical place. Theres plenty of room, its a relativly decent city and its in a rather convenient location. I hope all of this really does go through because we could definitly use more of a tech industry than IBM.

The answer is in the question (3, Insightful)

Rupert (28001) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910375)

Why are they so excited about a location that is over 100 miles from their nearest constituent company?

slightly further up:

New York State will supply the remaining $210 million

It always feels good to get money back from the government.

the real reason (1)

agusus (470745) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910382)

"Why are they so excited about a location that is over 100 miles from their nearest constituent company (IBM)?" "

Maybe they heard of SUNY Albany's reputation as a party school and they want to meet some girls there?

Re:the real reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910413)

Intel has a huge unfinished sky-scraper for sale here in Silicon Hills? Anyone interested? I hear they will give you a great deal!

Albany v. Austin (1)

bigfatlamer (149907) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910387)

Frist of all, there's absolutely nothing cool going on in Albany so there's no sort of "scene" to ruin (as there was in Austin).

So why Albany? Cheap (for the Northeast) housing, low overall cost of living, reasonable climate (I'd rather be cold than hot personally) and it's a decent transportation hub. Unlike Austin, Albany has a real airport. It's also less than a 3 hour drive to Boston and New York, 4 hours to Montreal and Philly and 6 hours to DC and Toronto. In other words, it's near stuff and it's cheap to live there.

Albany has a pretty decent state university (not UT but that's a plus in my book) and a medical school as well as a burgeoning biotech industry. Seems like as good a place as any to set up something like this.


Albany a good choice (1)

LoPan (113474) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910389)

As a long time resident of the area, temporarily living in Houston, I can say that Albany is an excellent choice. It is situated perfectly to tap resources from NYC, Boston (and all MA), VT, NH and Canada. This includes talent, materials, and more.

As alluded to in the NYT article, there is a wealth of educational resources nearby. RPI [] , my alma matter, is one of the top EE schools in the country, and there are dozens of other colleges and universities surrounding the city. The SUNY system is very large, with numerous campuses throughout the state including the large Albany campus.

Add all these advantages on top of good living conditions, reasonable cost of living, a revitalized historic downtown, and beautiful natural surroundings, and you have all the makings of a city prepared for a large, educated and well-paid population.

I sincerely hope that this brings Albany the kind of work force it sorely needs. I love the area, but the lack of a technology center forces my fiance and I to look elsewhere for our jobs.

As an RPI alumni... (3, Informative)

Sebastopol (189276) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910405)

...all I can say is: why the fuck would anyone want to live in ALBANY!

I hated all five years of the weather in Troy (snow from October to May ;-), and the vast absence of anything to do. The only thing worse than a dead city is a suburban sprawl. The Albany Museum of History, the Egg, and the QE2 dance club are the only things worth a dime. And I think the QE2 vanished some time in 1992?

RPI has great materials engineering, and the 300 million US$ grant by an anonymous coward will go to great use, but I don't think RPI is what it was in the pre-70's. Purdue and Carnegie-Mellon are the best schools for electrical engineering, IMHO. They even beat out MIT and CalPoly, I can say this after hiring several grads from the latter two schools. I don't know what it is about Purdue and CMU, but their grads are far more creative and independent than MIT and CalPoly.

I'm so offtopic right now. I'll take my -1 now...

Re:As an RPI alumni... (1)

Corby911 (250281) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910461)

...and the 300 million US$ grant by an anonymous coward will go to great use...

A large portion of it was alread lost in the stock market. I'm sure the rest is going to Shirley's plans to build a Biomed cetner and the EMPAC (Electronic Media and Performing Arts Center) right in the middle of the best sledding hill in Troy...

Re:As an RPI alumni... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910483)

You didn't live in Albany.

You lived in Troy with a bunch of pillow-biting engineering students.

Albany high on Creative Index (5, Informative)

wpjmurray (594069) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910412)

There's a new book out called "The Rise of the Creative Class" that lists cities according to the number of people who are involved in "creative" fields and the number of venues hosting art, music, etc. Albany was listed #2 in the country for a city its size (Albuquerque, NM was #1). This type of environment is perfect for business growth and is similar to the pre-Internet Silicon Valley area. I think people around here (I live in Albany) would like to see more businesses like this, but are wary of the sprawl and wealth obsession that has hurt San Francisco.

So instead of making them pay it *back*... (1)

Keck (7446) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910427)

while New York State will supply the remaining $210 million. The really unusual thing about the deal is that the state isn't offering any tax breaks or loans to lure the consortium to its capital.

Anyone else see a problem with that? No tax breaks or loans, but $210E6 instead. *NOW* I see how that's better than a loan for the NY Taxpayers..

Albany Rules.. the Adirondacks are beautiful, .. (1)

cez (539085) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910433)

Albany's Awesome! Having grown up in Lake George, NY (45 mins north of Albany) I have to tell you, Its great. Now living in NYC, I still will always love that place. Saratoga is great as have the track during the summer, SPAC and a great nightlife. Plus you can live 50 miles away from albany and still get to work in an hour. The School districts are great, and the landvalue in some places are outstanding investments. I can definately see the Hudson valley area growing into the next silicon valleyish type place...

why so excited you ask??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910438)

"...while New York State will supply the remaining $210 million"


Albany is a hidden gem. (2)

duffbeer703 (177751) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910441)

There are plenty of educated people and none of the traffic problems that you have in larger metro areas. If you live in Saratoga Springs, a popular suburb about 40-50 miles north you have an hour's commute.

This facility is going to be located right near two big highways, about 50 minutes from IBM headquarters. IBM has a big investment in the area, and NYS Government spends massive quanities of cash on IBM.

There is a whole office campus that the state is vacating to attract startups with cheap rents and prime office space.

Albany here I come (0, Offtopic)

notanatheist (581086) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910442)

I sure miss the NE USA. I spent 10 years growing up in Albany and there wasn't much to do at the time. It's mostly a historical place being the capital of NY and part of the original 13 colonies. I can imagine the outskirt towns like Colonie just booming with yuppies. Sure miss good ol' PS16. Anyone else attend there?

It's the women! (1)

edyu (259748) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910443)

Well, Silicon Valley men to women ratio is wayyyyyyyyyyy tooooooooooo bad. I think the ratio at my company is 20:1. I heard that the ratio for NY is 1:9. Well, that would alleviate a lot of problems for the tech men. Of course, whether the nerds and geeks can compete with the bankers for the models is another issue.

interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3910449)

dunno why they are doing it, but I think it's a good idea. I've been through there, even interviewed out there, and I have to say that the place just looked depressing. It used to be a manufacturing are, but then many companies moved out(for whatever reason) and the place had a real down and out look to it. I swear it's the most depressing PLACE I'd ever been before. This looks like it might be good for the area.

Location, location (2)

wytcld (179112) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910452)

Albany sits on a pretty nice conjunction of Interstates [] running to NYC, Boston, Montreal & points west, not to mention the Taconic Parkway [] running to NYC via Armonk. The city may be dreary, but the countyside in every direction is quite fine, surrounded as it is by the Adirondacks (one of the largest parks in the country), the Catskills, and the Green Mountains of Vermont, so the second home and ski-ing opportunities are wide open. It's also a good distance from any terrorist target (unlike NYC and Boston), and it's not in Texas.

One Word Explains it: "Illuminati" (3, Funny)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910467)

Have you ever been to New York state (not the city, but upstate)??

Its well forested, which is wonderful cover for Illuminati complexes.

In desert areas, like Area51, humans eventually figure out something strange is going on; but in well forested areas, people just laugh at hunters "wild" stories.

The Illuminati want the consortium, so they brought it close to home so no good secrets would leak outside their grip, before they allowed it.

Now, I will give you specific coordinates to the entrance to their complex... wait... I hear someone com

why there? (2)

lingqi (577227) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910476)

Why are they so excited about a location that is over 100 miles from their nearest constituent company (IBM)?

same reason as (one of the reasons) why Silicon valley started:

1) cheap land
2) cheap energy

somebody mentioned something about pollution: well, right now rochester, NY is one of the most heavily polluted cities in the US because of the Kodak plant there. i'm just dying to see (no pun, really) what's gonna happen after all these companies drop in. NY used to have more lax environmental laws than CA, which might be one of the reasons. that should (hopefully, anyway) be changing though.

Whoohoo! Endicott! (2)

mstyne (133363) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910500)

A mention of IBM's facility in Endicott brought back some memories... okay, granted they were only from a few months back, but before I graduated from SUNY Binghamton, I used to drive through the facilities there a lot. The ominous stone wall with INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS MACHINES in small block letters really gives one a sense of nostaglia. Upstate NY is sort of a black hole when it comes to corporate enterprise and culture, maybe if some more businesses get the idea that it's cheap to operate there, the southern tier and capital city area will see some sort of renaissance. Right now, the only reason I would go to Albany is Mahar's Public Bar... I love me some Magic Hat!

A smaller target? (2)

Geckoman (44653) | more than 12 years ago | (#3910512)

Except for being the capital of New York state, is there anything there to make Albany an enticing target for terrorists?

After the attacks on NYC and Washington, it seems a lot of companies started questioning the wisdom of having large offices in high-profile locations.

Plus you get the added benefits of living in a less crowded area (for now, anyway).

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