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HP: Rival Printers Mean No More HPs Through Dell

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the aren't-we-all-in-the-same-gang dept.

HP 364

blamanj writes: "Dell Computer seems to have pissed off HP, with their intent to sell their own printers. HP will apparently stop supplying printers to Dell, even though the new Dell products are not yet shipping."

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So (-1, Offtopic)

Captain Pedantic (531610) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944605)

what?

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944607)

fp

I like soup (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944608)


It's tasty!

holy shiznizzle, it's Chins McGilicutty! (-1)

Trolling Stones (587878) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944609)

Trolling Stones' lyrics quiz!
See if you can get them all without using a search engine
You must provide the artist and song title for full credit.

1) have you come to raise the dead
have you come here to play jesus
to the lepers in your head

2) i think of all the education that i missed
but then my homework was never quite like this

3) you've been running
hiding much too long
you know it's just your foolish pride

4) he picks up gideon's bible
open at page one
old charlie stole the handle
and the train it won't stop going
you know it couldn't slow down

5) but three months later
he said he won't date her
or return her calls
and she swears god damn
if she finds that man
cuttin off his balls

g to the oatse
c to the izzex
fo shizzle my nizzle eating Tandoori chicke turned my feces bright red!

Re:holy shiznizzle, it's Chins McGilicutty! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944651)

1. U2 - One
2. Van Halen - Hot for Teacher
3. Derek and the Dominoes - Layla
4. Jethro Tull - Locomotive Breath
5. Everlast - What It's Like

Now why in the hell would someone ask this question???

As Butthead would say (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944610)

you said pissed

uh huh huh

goodbye HP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944611)

You were a great company once.

Re:goodbye HP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944791)

Huh? other than their laser printers or their large format inkjets (the old ones, the newer ones SUCK BUG NOODLES!) every computer they made royally sucked. I have and many others have reccomended to people to avoid buying HP computers and serviers for the past 10 years. they suck, everything about them suck.

and all their inkjets suck. Their color laserjet's suck (Tektronix or XEROX are better)

so what about them was good again?

Dell talks to HP (5, Funny)

Master Commadachi (588004) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944618)

Dude, yer goin' to hell!

2p (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944619)

2nd post biznanthcl

No big loss (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944620)

Everyone knows they make the momey from the cartrages, not the actual units. Kind of like the game console sales model.

Re:No big loss (2, Insightful)

silicon_synapse (145470) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944810)

Everyone knows they make the momey from the cartrages, not the actual units. Kind of like the game console sales model

True, but fewer of their printers in people's homes means fewer cartridges will be needed. They're losing more than the profit directly from the printer.

bad decision (5, Interesting)

Auckerman (223266) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944621)

In a truely competitive market, a company gets nowhere by not selling their product to someone else. If I were an HP stock holder, I'd be pissed.

Re:bad decision (5, Insightful)

Sc00ter (99550) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944655)

Well look at it this way.. HP Printers sell thru dell because they're part of a package deal. To buy just the printer alone from Dell is usually more expensive.

If Dell is selling their own printers, they're going to package their printers with their systems, not HPs. So since Dell selling them standalone isn't really worth it to HP, and they're not going to be part of the package deal, they're probably not going to sell many, if any, thru Dell. So what's the point?

Re:bad decision (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944677)

HP still has name recognition. I'm sure quite a few people would spend extra to get the HP over the Dell if given the option.

Re:bad decision (2)

Sc00ter (99550) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944733)

But why get it thru Dell when I can go go BestBuy or Circuit City and get it for way cheaper?

Re:bad decision (3, Informative)

terrymr (316118) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944778)

Warranty, customer service .....

Dell has this weird policy of including a decent 1 year warranty as part of the package and offering extended warranties if you want them.

Best buy offers no meaningful warranty unless you pay extra for it.

Re:bad decision (1)

jalbro (82805) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944813)


To bad any promise of any kind from Dell is dependent upon getting someone on the phone who gives a shit.

I had to file against Dell in small claims court becuase they wouldn't admit they sent me the wrong monitor and wouldn't take it back.

-Jeff

Re:bad decision (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944798)

because nobody says "Dude, you're getting a BestBuy." It just doesn't have the same cachet.

Re:bad decision (4, Insightful)

Telecommando (513768) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944673)

It's probably not as simple as that. HP probably sells printers to Dell at a discount while selling them at full price elsewhere. Now that Dell is going to compete with them in the printer market, why would HP want to give them that discount only to have Dell undercut them on their own printers in the retail market?

Re:bad decision (2, Insightful)

glrotate (300695) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944826)

why would HP want to give them that discount only to have Dell undercut them on their own printers in the retail market?

You're assuming that if one can't buy the HP from dell that one will buy a HP retail.

I don't think you can assume this. A portion of customers buying HP from dell do so because of convenience. It's simply easier to buy a printer with your order of PC's. By eliminating the option to buy a HP, they may buy a Dell or an Epson. You can't assume they were determined to buy an HP.

Re:bad decision (1)

kpgalligan (595579) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944820)

HP is like a whinny baby. We have an hp scanner at work that hasn't been used for a while. I tried to download the drivers from the site, but they only have the update drivers. I called hp and spent about 20 minutes on the phone with various people. I gave them my name and phone number at least 3 times. I finally wound up with one option: pay $10 plus shipping for the drivers, to which I said fu, I'll download them from a bootleg site in Russia, but thanks. Every time I got to a new person they said, "Welcome to the new HP". I used to like HP. My dad bought a LaserJet II years ago and still uses it. Now I can't download drivers for a scanner that's a little over a year old? The new HP sucks. They better start acting like the old HP real quick. Why the hell would they stop selling printers to Dell? It seems to me that if Dell is planning on selling their own printers, cutting off their easy supply route would be a bad option. Just ranting.

Re:bad decision (3, Informative)

Cheeko (165493) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944832)

According to this article [cnn.com] from CNN, Dell's printer sales only account for 2 days worth of all of HP's printer sales for a year. So this isn't a major loss. Add to that, the fact that Dell will likely still by HP printers for some of its customer, just not directly from HP, and HP could potentially make MORE money off of Dell, depending on demand for the HP printers from Dell customers.

Absolutely crazy (2)

colmore (56499) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944622)

I hate this sort of thing. Corporations refusing to sell their products as an anti-competitive tactic. It's a textbook microsoft move.

I'm wondering, how common is this outside of the computer industry?

Re:Absolutely crazy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944663)

Why don't you just go to one of the numerous stores online or in your local town and just go buy an HP printer if you really want one that bad? Besides, Epson printers are better.

Re:Absolutely crazy (2)

crawling_chaos (23007) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944781)

I agree. I want to be able to buy a Toyota at my local Ford dealer, dammit!

In other words, it's extremely common outside of the computer industry.

Ooooh. (1)

Pig Hogger (10379) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944623)

Poor HP is pouting, now.

This is called good business (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944625)

If you ignorant fucking geeks knew anything about it, or if your opinions mattered at all (which tend to go hand in hand), I would be interested in reading the replies to this article.

As it stands, you people will just post a bunch of moronic comments claiming that 'this is bad' or 'this is good' or 'linux r00lz!'.

Go fuck yourselves.

Re:This is called good business (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944689)

Dell sells an incredible number of PCs.
People that buy a Dell would probably continue to
buy HP printers because its a known quantity.
Until people stop buying HP printers from dell it
would be wise for HP to continue selling their printers
through Dell.

Re:This is called good business (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944806)

What percentage of HP printers are sold through Dell?

What are the margins on the printers HP sells through Dell?

Does HP have enough capacity to cover all the markets they have gotten themselves into? (Note to geeks: posting 'HP is real big, they can make shitloads of printers!' is not good enough)

How susceptible is Dell to being strongarmed by HP? (ie-will this move help get HP better margins by forcing Dell to rethink the benefits they get from selling HP printers)

How much responsibility does HP bear in supplying these printers and is this a tactic to get the deal reworked?

See, you people don't know shit. In your little world all a company has to do is sell as much of a product as possible. It ain't that fucking simple and a normal person would have learned that when they saw all the geek startup businesses get chewed up by the market. You people are the height of ignorance. You are more dense than any of Pavlov's dogs.

Smart Move. (4, Insightful)

AtariDatacenter (31657) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944628)

You're only giving a long-term leg-up to your competition by allowing them to smoothly and easily transition to their own product line by continuing to sell them yours. You're giving up a short-term gain for a bit of long-term hurt. Exactly what I would have done.

This whole 'coopetition' thing is just like Microsoft tries to get competitors to do. "Let us use your product and embrace it until we're ready to demolish it."

Re:Smart Move. (2)

ocbwilg (259828) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944746)

You're only giving a long-term leg-up to your competition by allowing them to smoothly and easily transition to their own product line by continuing to sell them yours. You're giving up a short-term gain for a bit of long-term hurt. Exactly what I would have done.

Except that now Dell is going to continue selling HP printers obtained through distributors instead of HP directly. It seems to me that HP is missing out on the chance to make a little more money out of the deal (depending on what prices they sell at vs distributors cost).

Waah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944637)

I'm gonna take my toys and go home.

Go, Dell! (1)

Quantum Singularity (594841) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944641)

Dell really should go ahead with their own line of printers. They're obviously the best in the computer market, and they can be awesome with printers, too.

Re:Go, Dell! (1)

echucker (570962) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944762)

I'd consider buying a Dell over an HP if they could make better drivers. I've been fighting a LaserJet 4050 and a DesignJet2 since I walked in the door at my current job. Each of them has known, well-documented issues that have never been corrected.

Dell, Why? (2)

scott1853 (194884) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944644)

I thought the money was in printer cartridges not the actual printers themselves. Besides, to make money Dell would need to sell their products at retail locations which are already covered pretty well with HPs. They wouldn't be able to make enough money just selling to their own customers.

Re:Dell, Why? (2)

seanmeister (156224) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944691)

to make money Dell would need to sell their products at retail locations which are already covered pretty well with HPs

Dell seems to do just fine selling their products online and mail order. If they bundle their own printers instead of HP printers, why would they need to sell them at retail outlets?

Re:Dell, Why? (1)

Pig Hogger (10379) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944795)

I thought the money was in printer cartridges not the actual printers themselves.
Lemme guess. The DELL printers are not going to use HP cartridges...

(A lot of "secondary" printer manufacturers use CANON print mechanisms/cartridges)

Why does this matter? (2)

SoftwareJanitor (15983) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944645)

Even if I was buying a Dell computer, why would I care? What advantage is there to buying a printer from the same place you order your computer from? Has Dell been selling HP printers less than what I could buy from any other mail order outlet? Less than what I could buy the same HP printer from Fry's (or wherever)?

Dude, You are getting a Dell! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944646)

FP

LURN TOO SPEL FUXORS!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944648)

Seriously, don't use Debian to run Mozilla. People still know you can't spell no matter what
OS or browser you use.

PC Competition (3, Interesting)

EvilBudMan (588716) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944649)

That is because with HP's purchase of Compaq, they are in direct competition with Dell with the PC. Now I wonder who will be next. HP is just shooting itslef on this one. Do they really want Dell to get pissed at them and start making inkjet printers with cheaper ink?

Re:PC Competition (2, Insightful)

hajibaba (468067) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944686)

Err... wasn't HP already in direct competition with Dell before they bought Compaq?

Re:PC Competition (1)

EvilBudMan (588716) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944785)

Yes and No. They couldn't really afford to do this before the merger. Now that the combined companies now move them to the number one spot, HP thinks it can afford to do this. Compaq's and HP's will come with genuine HP printers, but anyone else will have to pay a higher price.

I think this will benifit HP in the short term but not in the long term, especially if Dell can make a decent printer.

Re:PC Competition (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944769)

I don't know, bro. Didn't HP have the Pavillion that competed against Dell?

Re:PC Competition (1)

arglesnaf (454704) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944802)

Umm, the article states that HP did this because Dell is getting into the printer market.

Re:PC Competition (1)

EvilBudMan (588716) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944840)

How would that reason alone help them sell more printers? It would help them sell more computers though.

i agree with HP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944652)

HP doesn't have to sell to printers to Dell if they don't want to. The anti-competitve argument is invalid.

How could they do it? (0, Insightful)

af_robot (553885) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944653)

I don't think HP legally can do it under antimonopoly laws: you can't sell your goods only to selected companies - you MUST sell it to everyone who will pay listed price.

Re:How could they do it? (1)

Zephy (539060) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944690)

Well, the thing is that they probably weren't paying list price (or anywhere near it) for the printers, as they were probably buying in serious bulk for them, and having a "partnership" would get them more discounts.. all this amounts to i guess is "no more discounts for dell"

Re:How could they do it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944701)

Are you really that stupid?? Holy shit, I can't believe how ridiculous this comment is. HP can choose to sell or not to sell to whomever they want. They aren't a monopoly you fucking moron.

Re:How could they do it? (1)

mattyohe (517995) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944707)

Ofcourse dell could buy them, but only at retail price.

Re:How could they do it? (2)

ShavenYak (252902) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944751)

Bullpoop. No company, monopoly or not, can be required to do business with anyone. Besides, HP is not a monopoly, so even if there is some bizarro antitrust law I'm unaware of that forces monopolies to sell their products to competitors for resale, it wouldn't apply to HP.

Re:How could they do it? (2)

ocbwilg (259828) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944771)

I don't think HP legally can do it under antimonopoly laws: you can't sell your goods only to selected companies - you MUST sell it to everyone who will pay listed price.

Why don't you just ring up Intel then and see if you can get them to sell you a processor.

Screw HP (0)

BigChigger (551094) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944657)

Ever since Carly arrived she has been more interested in pushing her "image" instead of doing what's right for the company. She's running HP into the ground, and she's going to make a bazillion $ doing it, while killing the jobs of a bazillion employees.

My next printer is an Epson.

BC

Re:Screw HP (1)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944688)

I know what you mean. We've been boycotting HP at the office. We now look at oki, lexmark, epson first.

It does seem to be an image thing.

Re:Screw HP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944719)

I agree with you! This is one example of why women should NOT be CEO's or in any power postition whatsoever! They are way too emotional, play WAY too many mindgames, and call in sick to work once every month without explaining why. We'll eliminate your damned "glass ceiling" when you start doing what you're supposed to be doing and not whining about equality while wearing a slit skirt and tight blouse to the office!

Re:Screw HP (5, Funny)

ShavenYak (252902) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944794)

I agree with you! This is one example of why women should NOT be CEO's or in any power postition whatsoever!

You're obviously a troll, but I'm going to play with your argument for a bit.

If this is a good enough reason for women to not be CEOs, then the Enron debacle is an example of why men should not be CEOs. Men are far too greedy and aggressive, too willing to lie and deceive to get their way, and spend too much time sexually harassing their secretaries to get any work done. Thus, since neither men nor women are qualified to be CEOs, I propose we dismantle all corporations until such time as we develop an AI suitable for administering their functions.

Re:Screw HP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944721)

you're so vain,
you probably think this song is about you.
your're so vain,
you probably think this song is about you.
don't you
don't you

Fiorina (3, Informative)

Skyshadow (508) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944767)

I couldn't agree more on Fiorina. She's following the path of a typical bad CEO: making deals that don't make a lot of sense, merging with a declining computer maker, etc -- all towards the end of "doing something" to justify her options and salary and at the expense of the little people and the HP corporate culture.

Living in the Bay Area, I find the main trouble I see is that any attack on Fiorina's ideas or methods is immediately interpreted in some quarters as an attack against women in important roles (like CEO). Granted, some people do make things a gender issue ("that stupid bitch", etc), but it's frustrating to be grouped in with them when you try to make reasonable points. It's gotten to the point where I group her with politics and religion as things to avoid in friendly conversation.

No matter, though; I've sold my HP stock and I don't work there, so maybe my company will see a rise in business while HP starts to toss theirs. Still, it's always sad to see a company sunk by its PHBs.

PS: I think renaming the Compaq Center the "HP Pavillion" is probably the tackiest thing I've every heard. Fortunately, for the locals who care it'll always be the Shark Tank.

Re:Fiorina (1)

Pig Hogger (10379) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944828)

Still, it's always sad to see a company sunk by its PHBs.
What do you think PHBs are for?

Great move HP!! That'll learn 'em. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944665)

Dude, you're not getting an HP.

Once again...... The HP Way...... (1)

Sesq (575751) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944667)

R.I.P.

Lexmark (1)

Quantum Singularity (594841) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944668)

I really hope they have Lexmark make their printers. IMHO, their quality is unsurpassed.

Re:Lexmark (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944708)

I've been nothing but impressed by HPs printers, its just that their software sucks. (drivers/print managers)

Hmmm...the ATI of printers.

Epson (1)

Quantum Singularity (594841) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944740)

Epson also is pretty good. And it has good software to go along with it, too. I use a Lexmark Z31 and an Epson C60 and they both work great.

Re:Lexmark (1)

Ark42 (522144) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944756)

Im assuming you forgot the tags around that statement.

Lexmark makes the most unreliable printers I have ever seen, from big office printers to little home printers, they are all the same: Jam frequently, low quality output. And the network ones cant even seem to stay online for a single day. DHCP is hopeless, and even if you go assign a static IP on the things, they still become unavailable on the network for no apparent reason.

Re:Lexmark (1)

Ark42 (522144) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944783)

Slashdot ate my <sarcasm>

Im assuming you forgot the <sarcasm> tags around that statement.

Re:Lexmark (1)

trash eighty (457611) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944827)

my lexmark ain't bad, had no problems with it at all. its been used fairly intensively for over a year now.

Re:Lexmark (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944792)

Yeah, well, in my honest opinion I think the Canon bubblejets of yesteryear were the best.

What, you say they were garbage? Trash not fit to print microsoft test pages?

Yeah, well, I say the same to your Lexmark.

Proposterous! (5, Funny)

L. VeGas (580015) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944669)

Oh right! Dell's going to make printers. That makes as much sense as HP making computers.

wait a second....

Even worse! Apple vs. It's Loyal User Base (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944672)

posted by apple lied yesterday:

Q: Will the new for-pay .Mac service be more reliable?
A: No.
Q: Will there be a phone number to call for technical support?
A: No.
Q: Will there be an e-mail address to report outages?
A: No.
Q: Will there, in fact, be any support at all?
A: No.
Q: Will the 100MB of storage come with an increased bandwidth limit for web sites?
A: No.
Q: Will you be telling us what the bandwidth limits are?
A: No.
Q: Will you support CGI, PHP, SSI, SQL, servlets, JSP, WebObjects applications, or anything else beyond regular static HTML files?
A: No.
Q: Will I be able to get access to my web logs? Or any other realtime webspace access statistics?
A: No.
Q: What about backup--our files are safe if we back them up to iDisk, right?
A: No. Apple does not guarantee the integrity of any files on iDisk, even if placed there by the Apple Backup software.
Q: Well, we can at least use the Backup software to back up our computers to CD-R, right?
A: No, not if you have any files bigger than 650MB.
Q: What about using my external tape drive, DVD drive or Firewire hard drive?
A: No, Backup only works with Apple-supplied internal drives. And only if you're a .mac member.
Q: So the backup software doesn't back up from my local hard disk to my local CD burner, unless I have a .Mac membership and an active net connection?
A: Correct.
Q: OK. The service also includes anti-virus software. Are there any Mac OS X viruses at all?
A: No.
Q: If I don't use Microsoft Office, do I need to worry about macro viruses?
A: No.
Q: Umm... OK. So how much for this invaluable service?
A: $99 for one year. Plus tax. In advance.
Q: Can I get two accounts, for me and my wife?
A: Sure, that'll be $198 plus tax. In advance.
Q: No, I mean can I get a second account at a discount because I've already bought one?
A: Oh, alright then, quit whining. You can get a second account for $10 a year if you buy one full account.
Q: And it'll have the backup, anti-virus, and web functionality?
A: No, only an e-mail address.
Q: Ah... but at least it'll be a full e-mail account, right?
A: No, you'll only get 5MB of space. But that's nearly enough to hold five days' spam.
Q: Can't my two accounts just share the same space for a nominal extra fee?
A: No.
Q: Is there a satisfaction guarantee?
A: Yes. Apple reserves the right to terminate your access to the online services and the software, without cause, without notice and without refunding your money, if it's not satisfied with your behavior.
Q: What kinds of things am I not allowed to post on my web site?
A: Anything "lewd" or "vulgar", anything "embarrassing" to anyone, or anything that counts as advertising for any product or service.
Q: So you want $99 a year for an e-mail address, useless backup software, anti-virus software I could buy for $50, and web space limited to inoffensive pictures of fluffy kittens? $99 even if I only want to keep the "lifetime e-mail address" that you previously said was free just for buying a Mac?
A: Yes. Pay up now, in three weeks we'll delete your files and bounce your mail.
Q: I have one more question... What exactly are you smoking out there in Cupertino?
A: We think it's crack. Think different.

Well.... (1)

YahoKa (577942) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944675)

HP must have be confident that they can do well with their own sales.

Re:Well.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944702)

RTFA. Dell's portion of HP's annual sales is 2/365 = 0.5%. Whoop-te-do. Given the chance, I'd stick it to Dell, too. Upset their apple cart while you still have a chance. Good business move.

Re:Well.... (1)

Zephy (539060) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944834)

That .5% is still quite a lot of money.. admittedly it is relatively small, but i'll wager it's paying for a few people's wages.

Stupid Management (2, Troll)

N8F8 (4562) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944680)

Looks like one bad decision after the next. First that moronic Compaq-HP merger and then this. Horrible to see a great company brought down by stupid mangement [hp.com] .

Carleton S. (Carly) Fiorina [hp.com] is Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Hewlett-Packard. Click the link to tell her what you think.

Antitrust? (2)

pheph (234655) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944684)

With the (somewhat) recent prosecution of Microsoft, I read up (somewhat) on Anti-trust laws, and this seems to be text book. "Hewlett-Packard Co. , the No. 1 printer and personal computer maker" stops selling printers to Dell because of a completely unrelated business venture (Dell making printers), in hopes to keep their 'monopoly' on printers. Could someone explain how this isn't antitrust?

Re:Antitrust? (1)

Rude Turnip (49495) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944742)

I'd hardly call it an antitrust issue. There are plenty of manufacturers of printers and they all work with your computer without problems. The only way there could be an antitrust concern is if HP somehow bought out all of the ink manufacturers or was in a position to dictate ink pricing in a way that would harm competitors.

Re:Antitrust? (1)

echucker (570962) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944789)

#1 monopoly.

Re:Antitrust? (2)

Wanker (17907) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944796)

Could someone explain how this isn't antitrust?
Probably because even though HP is the leading printer manufacturer, they do not have a monopoly. This is actually more common than an industry forming a monopoly. Monopolies form best when there are significant costs associated with leaving one supplier/manufacturer/company and choosing another.

I would argue that it would be exceedingly difficult to have a monopoly on a peripheral like printers. There is no barrier to exit given the modular nature of printing in all major (and most minor) OSes. How hard is it to change printers? Install printer. Install driver. Done.

There are no applications which will cease to work, so there's no need to purchase or install new apps in order to exit from your old printer. The driver install only takes a couple minutes, so the time involved doesn't form a significant barrier to leaving your current printer. Contrast this with changing OS and you'll see why there can easily be a monopoly on an operating system vs. peripherals.

well, this sums it up (2)

rhadamanthus (200665) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944685)

"Dell spokesman Mike Maher said his company would still sell HP branded printers that it purchases through distributors, but expressed dismay at HP's decision. "Frankly we're surprised that a company would make it harder for customers to get their hands on their products," he said. "

I'm not.

Since when have these companies really cared about their customers, rather than their egos?

Sorry to be so cynical, but this is just all too common and pathetic.

-----rhad

Oh well. (2, Funny)

ultima (3696) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944687)

And in other news, Microsoft refuses to sell Windows to Dell as long as they are selling computers with Linux pre-loaded.

HP, uncreative as always, goodbye!

Re:Oh well. (1)

nesthigh (447909) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944803)

Dell can just go over to OfficeMax/Staples and buy a copy of the latest windows just like everybody else.. er.. wait..

Tabloid TV headline (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944698)

Carly Bitch-Slaps Michael, film at 11.

prisoner's dilemma (2, Insightful)

Knytefall (7348) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944703)

This seems actually to be a very good prisoner's dilemma-style situation. And in this case, they both chose to screw each other. If you are familiar with prisoner's dilemma, you know that this is the worst possible option.

I think this is very bizarre... especially since it's really Dell that has the advantage since they possess the customer relationships (the most valuable asset). It seems that it would have been better for HP to hold off a bit and use the time to transition Dell's customers away from HP.

HP Dumb-Ass Decision (1)

daemous (43293) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944705)

HP printers are gold. Who doesn't have one? Dell's printers would have been low-end cheap hassles and Dell would have had no motivation to keep them around without investing heavily into them.

Now HP is forcing to make Dell into a real printer competitor. Like HP needs more competition. Sheesh. Dell will now invest time and money into building a business to burn HP. That effort won't cripple Dell's core business which is stomping HP.

this is a test of an anonymous proxy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944715)

this is a test of an anonymous proxy

HP's stragey (3, Informative)

papasui (567265) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944720)

I know everyone is saying this is a bad move for HP and it very well may be but I think I see what they are doing. If Dell intends to produce their own printers why would they continue to purchase HP priinters in the future when it obviously will end up being far cheaper for them to manufactor and package their own. HP is trying to cut them off before they can do this and hurt them in computer sales when they won't be able to package anymore HP printers while going on with this. One of two things will happen, either Dell will get suckered into a big fat increase on HP printers or they will have to go with another manufactor. Either way its not that bad for HP because they can focus on supplying other vendors, theirselves included or they will get some additional revenue while hurting Dell. Business as usual.

Why would Dell want to sell their own printers? (3, Insightful)

origin2k (302035) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944723)

The article states that printers are sold at a loss and that most consumers prefer to buy their ink cartridges at local retail stores (the profit maker). Because HP has presence in the retail arena this makes sense. However, Dell must believe that customers are willing to purchase supplies online for Dell branded printers, even knowing that most consumers prefer to do retail.

I don't know about everyone else, but I don't buy ink cartridges until I need them and when I do I run down to the store and pick one up because they are so freaking expensive. Unless you are monitoring your ink, you can't predict when you will need to order another one online and wait 3-5 days to get it.

As for HP cutting off sales to Dell? Seems par for the course for a company that hasn't made very many good decisions lately.

OPEN SOURCE MISCONCEPTIONS by poopbot (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944734)

OPEN SOURCE MISCONCEPTIONS
By Serial Troller

Myth: Open Source is written by heterosexuals.

Fact: All Open Source development is done by raging homosexuals. The more flaming examples include Anal Cox, Linus Turdballs, Eric Ass-Reaming Raymond, and the entire Slashdot crew. The ringleader of the slashdotters, a man named CmdrTaco, engages in a practice known as Taco-snotting, along with his faggot-buddies Jeff Homos Bates and CowBoiKneel.

Myth: Open Source is written for heterosexuals.

Fact: Using Open Source software can cause suppressed homosexual fantasies to surface, leading to all out flaming faggotry within 6-8 weeks. Anecdotes of otherwise hetero men turning queer are far too numerous to count, but a few examples stand out. In one case, a man was arrested loitering outside an elementary school and making sexual overtures to several children: he quickly confessed that shortly after installing the Mozilla browser on his computer, he began to have uncontrollable urges to, to put it simply, have his cock sucked off by little boys. He soon met several other like-minded men through discussions on the Bugger Zilla mailing list (all already homosexuals), who together kidnapped a total of seven children whom they brought back to their apartment and sodomized. The other two men are still at large and believed to still be using Mozilla.

Myth: Open Source is multicultural.

Fact: Open Source is openly racist.

Myth: Open Source is democratic.

Fact: Open Source is controlled by a few narrow-minded zealots (mentioned throughout this post), most of whom are either Communists, Stalinists, Nazis, or Fascists. Additionally, Open Source supports terrorism.

Myth: Open Source is tolerant of religious preferences.

Fact: Open Source developers regularly engage in holy wars over the superiority of various Open Source projects, such as the Emacs program (preferred by Christians) versus vi (used mostly by neo-pagans and Satanists); or the KDE desktop (a favorite among Muslims) versus the GNOME project (particularly favored by Jews). Posts initiating crusades or jihads against other developers can be found regularly throughout the newsgroups and mailing lists.

Myth: Open Source is tolerant of sexual preference.

Fact: See above. Either you are a homo, you become a homo, or you never visit Richard Stallman alone in his office and hope to God you never meet him on the street at night.

Myth: Open Source is tolerant of political differences.

Fact: Open Source is an anarcho-communist philosophy bent on the destruction of capitalism. The very same Richard Stallman, a man whose name is disturbingly reminiscent of Stalin, has stated several times in public that his vision includes the subjugation of all who own intellectual properties under the jackboot of the GPL. The GPL is a pernicious piece of literature lifted straight from Karl Marxs Communist Manifesto, and is fortunately banned in many democratic nations.

* * * * * UPDATE * * * * *

Myth: Open Source programming is a harlmess, healthy activity.

Fact: Open Source programming has been known to lead to massive obesity, violent tendencies with an obsession with handguns, paranoid-delusional ranting, and in severe cases, complete insanity. If anyone you know is thinking about going Open Source, stop them before its too late!

* * * * * UPDATE * * * * *

____________________

2002 Serial Troller. Permission to reproduce this document is granted provided that you send all the bukkake porn you can find to serialtroller@hotmail.com.

- posted by poopbot: for all your crapflooding needs

wukJqzoKfa Post #727

+5 funny (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944735)

Found in comp.lang.lisp

--
I can find Ivory for MAC or mac with this board if this available and all
document connect with this my system is expired and crash into
fire....grr...
--

Hilarious.

Important Notice (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944745)

Hi there. I'm CmdrTaco, one of the ruling despots here at slashdot. Earlier today I realized that I've been deeply troubled by recent events here on slashdot, more troubled than I've been willing to admit to myself. The plebs here have been making alot of noise in the last 24 hours, ever since this thread [slashdot.org] arose on the "Oracle Breakable After All" story. My attitude was the usual "fuck them all", and I thought the matter undeserving of even a moment of my time. But then a strange thing happened; I was stricken by impotence. I beat and I beat and I beat, and yet even with the aid of the very finest tentacle-rape anime divx selections available, I found myself unable to climax. Even having Hemos choke me with his belt till my face turned blue failed to do the trick. Clearly, something was terribly wrong.

And so, I went soul-searching. I thought back on the other night and the bitchslapping rampage I went on in that thread. I thought of some of the very low UIDs whom I'd smacked down, I thought about the many user moderations that me and the other editors had unjustly overturned with our unlimited mod points. I considered the outcry, the suggestions that we were ignoring the will of our own community, that we were evading a subject that desperately needs discussing, that we were acting autocratically and making hypocrites of ourselves. All these things I pondered, and I pondered long and hard. And this is what I have to say:

Go away.

When me and Hemos began this site so long ago now, we were starry-eyed small-town lovers; young, naive, and drunk on the possibility that a real revolution of sorts might be on the horizon, and that it might involve small furry animals. And so we opened up our labour of love to the world, never suspecting that it would become even half of what it has become today. Things were good, for a time.

But things change. None of you could ever understand just what it feels like, and what it does to a man, to have such a large userbase grow up under your shoddy perl scripts. Unless it happens to you firsthand, you can never truly know. They say that power corrupts, and I am here to tell you that it is true. Once, I cared. I really did. But you people... you went from being individuals, from people I could care about and chat with on #slashdot, to becoming a giant formless mass.. a formless mass seperated into factions; an army of idiots filling my inbox with crap and my RAID array with drivel. Every thread now, I'm lucky if I can find a single comment that doesn't appear to be stamped down by a dim-witted cookie-cutter of a mind. Endless parrotting, pompous bullshit, and people so one-dimensional that it is frightening. I have a secret for you: I too believe that the absurdist noise and distraction of the 'trolls' is the most worthwhile part of slashdot these days. I don't care about anything anymore, save bukkake vids and the occasional good troll.

So then, why do me and my editors censor with an iron fist? Why do we stamp every bit of humour and joy left in this place out and try to make it more and more soullessly grey with each passing day? Because I don't want to have a dialogue with you fucking plebs about the deterioration of this site, I don't want to save it; I want this failed experiment to implode upon the weight of its users' own hypocrisy and hyperbole. You say this site should be a microcosm for the free and open society of the future? Don't you see that it already is? And you wonder why it stinks of shit...

It will continue as it has. The majority of you will come regardless of what we do. I could piss on your mothers and assfuck your fathers and you'd still come to stroke your egos and share your reactionary politics with the world and to waste countless more hours of your miserable days away. The arms-race will continue. You think a bit of mass -1 Offtopics is bad? Brotha you ain't seen nothin yet. The editors will continue to be my hand-picked squad of the biggest fucking assholes I can manage to dredge up. We will continue to ignore your whinging about censorship, indeed we will ramp it up, because we don't fucking care. There will be countless more stories about the latest lame yuppie toys, the latest minor kernel revision, "look what I found in subsection 123.23.1c of this license!", and all manner of other predictable crap for you to hurl your canned responses at and exercise your dogmas on. Katz will continue to offer you his unique brand of insight until the end of time. And we, as always, could care less what you think or want. Droids and trolls alike; you will all lap it up.

You were expecting some great revelation or commitment to reform to become of this? hohohoho... as if I give a damn about the silly dramas you fools generate out of bit-patterns slapping into my DB. I was troubled, but only because I cloaked my true opinions in silence and continued to play the role of naive otaku-boy and open-source ass-puppet. Because I wasn't being honest with myself or with all of you. Now I can speak the truth, and my soul is unburdened. You may now go back to wallowing in the shit; I'm off to blow my load in Hemos' pretty pink face.

Remember this: we are only a mirror.

Thank you.

Nice Spin (3, Informative)

IWantMoreSpamPlease (571972) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944777)

>>Dell spokesman Mike Maher said his company would still sell HP branded printers that it purchases through distributors, but expressed dismay at HP's decision. "Frankly we're surprised that a company would make it harder for customers to get their hands on their products," he said.

No, it's not harder to get an HP printer, I can go to any of 1000 stores near me and pick one up quite easily, as can any number of new-computer buying people.

Dell is trying to muscle into HP's area, and this is how HP is responding. I'm not surprised at all...

Reminds me a little of my grocery store (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944784)

Dell would have done this anyway, but HP just helped it along...

It reminds me of my local grocery store - Kroger. They, from my perspective, seem to be slowly pushing name brand products off their shelves and replacing them with Kroger brand products.

Same thing - except Kellogg's didn't pull their Apple Jacks when Kroger introduced their cheaper knockoff version.

FREE PR0N (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944790)

www.flashings.com

user: content
pass: content

The Last Debate (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944800)

Hi there. I'm CmdrTaco, one of the ruling despots here at slashdot. Earlier today I realized that I've been deeply troubled by recent events here on slashdot, more troubled than I've been willing to admit to myself. The plebs here have been making alot of noise in the last 24 hours, ever since this thread [slashdot.org] arose on the "Oracle Breakable After All" story. My attitude was the usual "fuck them all", and I thought the matter undeserving of even a moment of my time. But then a strange thing happened; I was stricken by impotence. I beat and I beat and I beat, and yet even with the aid of the very finest tentacle-rape anime divx selections available, I found myself unable to climax. Even having Hemos choke me with his belt till my face turned blue failed to do the trick. Clearly, something was terribly wrong. And so, I went soul-searching. I thought back on the other night and the bitchslapping rampage I went on in that thread. I thought of some of the very low UIDs whom I'd smacked down, I thought about the many user moderations that me and the other editors had unjustly overturned with our unlimited mod points. I considered the outcry, the suggestions that we were ignoring the will of our own community, that we were evading a subject that desperately needs discussing, that we were acting autocratically and making hypocrites of ourselves. All these things I pondered, and I pondered long and hard. And this is what I have to say: Go away. When me and Hemos began this site so long ago now, we were starry-eyed small-town lovers; young, naive, and drunk on the possibility that a real revolution of sorts might be on the horizon, and that it might involve small furry animals. And so we opened up our labour of love to the world, never suspecting that it would become even half of what it has become today. Things were good, for a time. But things change. None of you could ever understand just what it feels like, and what it does to a man, to have such a large userbase grow up under your shoddy perl scripts. Unless it happens to you firsthand, you can never truly know. They say that power corrupts, and I am here to tell you that it is true. Once, I cared. I really did. But you people... you went from being individuals, from people I could care about and chat with on #slashdot, to becoming a giant formless mass.. a formless mass seperated into factions; an army of idiots filling my inbox with crap and my RAID array with drivel. Every thread now, I'm lucky if I can find a single comment that doesn't appear to be stamped down by a dim-witted cookie-cutter of a mind. Endless parrotting, pompous bullshit, and people so one-dimensional that it is frightening. I have a secret for you: I too believe that the absurdist noise and distraction of the 'trolls' is the most worthwhile part of slashdot these days. I don't care about anything anymore, save bukkake vids and the occasional good troll. So then, why do me and my editors censor with an iron fist? Why do we stamp every bit of humour and joy left in this place out and try to make it more and more soullessly grey with each passing day? Because I don't want to have a dialogue with you fucking plebs about the deterioration of this site, I don't want to save it; I want this failed experiment to implode upon the weight of its users' own hypocrisy and hyperbole. You say this site should be a microcosm for the free and open society of the future? Don't you see that it already is? And you wonder why it stinks of shit... It will continue as it has. The majority of you will come regardless of what we do. I could piss on your mothers and assfuck your fathers and you'd still come to stroke your egos and share your reactionary politics with the world and to waste countless more hours of your miserable days away. The arms-race will continue. You think a bit of mass -1 Offtopics is bad? Brotha you ain't seen nothin yet. The editors will continue to be my hand-picked squad of the biggest fucking assholes I can manage to dredge up. We will continue to ignore your whinging about censorship, indeed we will ramp it up, because we don't fucking care. There will be countless more stories about the latest lame yuppie toys, the latest minor kernel revision, "look what I found in subsection 123.23.1c of this license!", and all manner of other predictable crap for you to hurl your canned responses at and exercise your dogmas on. Katz will continue to offer you his unique brand of insight until the end of time. And we, as always, could care less what you think or want. Droids and trolls alike; you will all lap it up. You were expecting some great revelation or commitment to reform to become of this? hohohoho... as if I give a damn about the silly dramas you fools generate out of bit-patterns slapping into my DB. I was troubled, but only because I cloaked my true opinions in silence and continued to play the role of naive otaku-boy and open-source ass-puppet. Because I wasn't being honest with myself or with all of you. Now I can speak the truth, and my soul is unburdened. You may now go back to wallowing in the shit; I'm off to blow my load in Hemos' pretty pink face. Remember this: we are only a mirror. Thank you.

Story Updated (5, Funny)

jaymzter (452402) | more than 12 years ago | (#3944816)

CNN (I lost the direct link) is reporting that the real
reason HP is pulling printers from Dell is because that
lovable scamp, the "Dell Guy", reportedly grabbed Carly's
ass at a recent "goodwill" meeting.

Carly was overheard to say "He'll never get his hands
on my toner again!". The Dell Guy responded with "Dude,
what a rude BITCH!"

Can someone without an actual job please find this link?

Anticompetitive practices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944829)

When are you libertarian types going to figure out the biggest threat to your freedom is not the government, but corporations?

Bad move (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944831)

Ok, HP stock is at $11.58 from $25 a year ago. You would think they would take every sell they could make.

Slashdot has confirmed:PWP is dying by poopbot (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3944841)

Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered trolling community when recently Slashdot confirmed that, after several changes were made to production Slashcode, wide posts account for less than a fraction of 1 percent of all Slashdot posts. Coming on the heels of the latest verions of IE which make page-widening more difficult, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. the wide posts that we love are collapsing into the narrow posts that we are used to, as further exemplified by the lack of Slashbots complaining about difficulty reading Slashdot's articles.

You don't need to be a Klerck to predict PWP's future. The hand writing is on the wall: PWP faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for PWP because PWP is dying. Things are looking very bad for PWP. As many of us are already aware, PWP continues to be defeated by users with thresholds of 1 or higher. Mod points flow like a river of blood. Klerck's PWP-bot posts are the most endangered of them all, having been filtered early on because of their uniformity.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

PWP leader Klerck states that there are 7 wide posts in the average Slashdot article. How many non-wide crapflood posts are there? Let's see. The number of crapflood versus wide posts on Slahdot is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7*5 = 35 non-wide crapflood posts in every Slashdot article. Tacosnotting posts on Slashdot are about half of the volume of crapflood posts. Therefore there are about 17 tacosnotting posts per article. A recent article put Goatse.cx trolls at about 80 percent of total troll posts. Therefore there are a hell of a lot of homosexual trolls. This is consistent with the number of Goatse.cx Slashdot posts.

But Slashdot is only part of the picture. Due to the troubles at Slashdot, negative revenue and so on, the site will soon go out of business and many users will flock to alternative weblogs, where PWP is almost completely unknown. Trollaxor.com, the popular troll hangout, is also dying, its corpse sodomized in yet another Greek bath house.

All major surveys show that PWP has steadily declined in the scope of all troll posts. PWP is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If PWP is to survive at all it will be among Blog faggot using outdated versions of Slashcode. PWP continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, PWP is dead.

- posted by poopbot: who doesn't like scat?

M61vLwMWsK Post #729
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