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Gates Tries to Explain .Net

michael posted more than 12 years ago | from the effing-the-ineffable dept.

Microsoft 613

AdamBa writes "Speaking to financial analysts and reporters, Bill Gates admitted that .NET hadn't caught on as quickly as he had hoped. The headline ('Gates admits .NET a "misstep"') is a bit misleading; he doesn't think all of .NET was a misstep, just the My Services part (aka Hailstorm). He also said that labelling the current generation of enterprise products as .NET might have been 'premature.' Summary: Microsoft got too excited about locking in users via Hailstorm and botched the overall .NET message." There's also a Reuters report and a NYTimes story on the same subject, which includes the interesting line: "Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending." It isn't clear if Microsoft is talking about something happening beyond their control, or if they're boasting about ending it.

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Gates tries to explain wet spot on crotch (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951198)

clean as the driven shit. FP CLOT, what what

CLiT 0wnZ this FP (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951231)

...and the war wages on... the CLiT always victorious!

CLiT

Re:CLiT 0wnZ this FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951261)

what are you doing you ignorant fuckbag? the CLOT are the CLIT once we've posted twice in 24 hours.

Re:CLiT 0wnZ this FP (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951279)

The CLiT sees no distinction, you are an AC terrorist, all AC terrorists must be eliminated.

The CLOT is an abomination.

CLiT

Re:CLiT 0wnZ this FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951392)

i'll prove my point thusly:

The CLOT is an abomination.

say that again, cowboy.

not today you don't.

CLOT == CLIT in exile

Gates doesn't do mistakes. (5, Funny)

SpanishInquisition (127269) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951201)

When he does they become standards.

FP ? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951213)

flibit prorti

End of open source... (2, Interesting)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951222)

He could be speaking of the end of open source in the business sense. Look at all the open source companies on the market. The market, itself, is getting hammered. Open source/linux companies are getting hit EXTRA hard (VA was hit >17% just yesterday).

Also, .NET is a nice technology, and has wonderful features (which it should, seeing that it looked on other technologies that broke out, like Java, and improved upon it). And, they are even trying to crack open that "you can only run it on IIS", by attaching it to apache. I'm surprised, myself, how it isn't catching on quickly, but I'm sure the market is mostly to blame.

Re:End of open source... (1)

fluch (126140) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951282)

And, they are even trying to crack open that "you can only run it on IIS"

It's only running on Apache for WIN...

.NET (5, Insightful)

Twister002 (537605) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951302)

I think when developers talk about .NET, we're talking about the .NET framework. Which does have many wonderful features and improvements to the languages (C#, VB.NET is a big improvement over VB 6.0), the ease of making web services. It's much easier to manipulate XML than in previous versions. In the developer community (at least the ones that make money by programming on the Windows platform) it is slowly gaining popularity and many web sites have converted over to ASP.NET.

When the general public thinks about .NET, I think they are referring to the nebulous cloud of "web services" that Microsoft has alluded to, "Hailstorm", ".NET My Services", etc... Those still seem to be up in the air and not many people see the need for them.

I don't think I'd pay Microsoft for a subscription to Word.NET when I can just keep using MS Word 2000 or OpenOffice 1.0, or AbiWord. I don't want to store my credit card info in my Passport (or liberty alliance or any other online identity service) account. Heck, I want the people in the checkout lane to ASK to see my ID when I hand them a credit card, I certainly don't want to hand over all the info that a thief needs to charge things to my credit card.

Web sites converting? (2)

N8F8 (4562) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951347)

What web sites have converted? Could you give a few examples?

Why I am seeing everyone is converting to Java? (3, Insightful)

croanon (567416) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951427)

Then why I am seeing everyone is converting to Java in the last 2 years? No one is using .NET or planning to use it around. My firm tested it, tried to call some legacy activex controls and unmanaged C++ code, they of course rejected it after a biiiiiiig performance hit.
I know lots of developers who shifted to Java from MS platforms though. :)
.NET is new. Not tested, not trustable. Java existed 7 years ago. Why should I risk it? Why should I develop in .NET, just another VM based technology, but this time lock myself to Windows? I know that there will be other implementations of .NET, such as Mono on Linux, but those will not be cross platform compatible at all. Even they say it. One reason is that .NET's most important parts are not given to ECMA, such as WinForms and ADO.NET. Do not forget that. MS is still holding the patterns.
etc. etc.
.NET my BUTT. I will never use it.

Re:End of open source... (1)

Azghoul (25786) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951327)

I think suggesting that Open Source companies are getting hit any harder than the rest of the tech industry (take a look at the state of affairs of the Nasdaq 100, it's a joke) is plain exaggeration.

Then again, there are not as many public OS companies. Maybe the public corporation route is NOT the way to go for a successful OS business model...

Re:End of open source... (3, Insightful)

GreyPoopon (411036) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951385)

He could be speaking of the end of open source in the business sense.

Where in the article did it mention him indicating the end of Open Source? The warning statement was about the end of "Open Computing," and I believe he was referring to Digital Rights Management and other cryptographic technologies being built into the hardware and operating system. Personally, I find this concept MORE frightening than ending Open Source, but he's doing nothing more here than repeating what all of the big corporate conglomerates (RIAA, etc) have been trying to convince us of. Sad really. As much as I don't like Mr. Gates, I would have hoped that the geek in him wouldn't have caved so quickly.

Open computing ending? (4, Insightful)

Telastyn (206146) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951228)

Wouldn't that truly be one of the travisties of humanity? Ending the Information Revolution by returning to where we were before it... Let us just hope and act in such a way that this does not come to pass.

Re:Open computing ending? (2, Interesting)

Noofus (114264) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951338)

The information age seems to have run amok.

Example:

My parents are on vacation in france. They have web based email accounts. One of the hotels they stayed at happened to have internet access. So they sent me (and my grandparents) and email stating that they were having a good time. They did this a few times, until they went on to the next hotel that had no internet access.

My grandmother, who just learned how to use email, has decided that something HORRIBLE has happened to them because they havent sent an email report in 3 days. She is now convinced they are dead, or something stupid.

If I dont have my cell phone with me one day (or god forbid I TURN IT OFF when I go to a movie), I am assumed to be dead by my family because they cant contact me.

I would seriously consider dropping my cell phone plan - except it DOES have its uses. I think it would do the world a bit of good to drop the "Information Revolution" back a few notches. Dropping all the way back to pre-information age technology wouldnt be good. But I think people are taking some of this stuff too far.

Re:Open computing ending? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951361)

Your family is full of delusional weirdos.

Re:Open computing ending? (1)

gordie (139287) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951461)

Then so is mine! It's a generation thing. My Father's generation (he's in his 70's) is just now getting "in to" computers. I remember the day he called me at work, to tell me he figured out how to save a text file on his own. Then called back to ask how to find it again. Email and cell phones are wonders to them. When things do not work as expected, or differently then before, they begin to panic - not an un-natural reaction to (for them) the unknown.

Re:Open computing ending? (2)

Telastyn (206146) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951438)

I actually have no cell phone, and am actively opposed to having one. There's no need for everyone in the world be able to bother me whenever they want to.

There's a difference between free sharing of information and unwanted information being shoved at you or your information that you DON'T share being taken.

Re:Open computing ending? (1)

Azghoul (25786) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951355)

I have an inkling that he's not totally wrong. Seems to me that in the past, everyone just tossed anything they wanted online, people could share all sorts of stuff.

Now, everyone is jumping on the security bandwagon (probably about time!). Take GIS data for instance: Every federal agency freaked out after last September expecting terrorists to come take their GIS data and map out plans of destruction... So they yanked it all offline, to the serious detriment of academic, state and local GIS efforts.

Perspectives have changed.

Now of course, he could be talking about locking everything down with some kind of silly DRM scheme, which we can expect will fail (no way they can get /every/ manufacturer to go along, and no way the laws pass anyway).

Open Computing is Ending? (2, Insightful)

ultima (3696) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951232)

Free exchange of digital information (like Open Source Software) which defined personal computing (GNU did quite a bit of defining with gcc, emacs, &c) is ending?

Sounds like FUD aimed at open source software -- particularly because he uses the term "open computing" :)

On another note, my personal experience of .NET is that it seems to revolve around Visual Basic style API, buzzwords, and commercialism. I was thinking this morning that it seems like companies no longer have any interest in providing developer tools to people who develop for the sake of developing, but rather tools for rather poor coders working for large profiteering companies. It's a shame because it would have been so nice if it wasn't such garbage.

Re:Open Computing is Ending? (1)

cez (539085) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951313)

Gates was just trying to get a media aftershock towards open-source. Open source isn't ending or close too it. It sounds to me like he was trying to throw some negativity towards the private sector who is competing with him using open source (i.e ibm waltmart etc.)+ the consumers who listen to everything the media tells it...common you know they're out there.

Re:Open Computing is Ending? (2)

Kraegar (565221) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951318)

It's a shame because it would have been so nice if it wasn't such garbage.
Yeah, and it's a shame because it would have been so nice if my desktop were a nice new IBM rackmount server.

What you've just said is "It's all a bunch of hype, but it would have been nice if it weren't". Well, duh.

But then again, apparently it's not all hype, else what would Ximian have to interact with? No... poorly implemented good ideas, that's .NET

Hmm. (3, Funny)

TibbonZero (571809) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951235)

Guess they haven't had as good of a '.NET' gain on this as they expected...

No they havn't (0)

TurdFurgeson (592680) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951404)

Because an unexpected shift in primary focus occured. I prefer security over new features to be honest.

With .NET everything will be connected so security will be of more importance then ever. I am glad Microsoft is changing gears and don't care if products are delayed.

- microsoft gets hammered by the world for security problems
- microsoft makes a commitment to place security first
- .net progress slows greatly
- microsoft hacks down
- linux hacks up

The game just started boys!

security and uptime is all you got left!

It's ending because they're ending it. (4, Insightful)

Zone5 (179243) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951237)

"The era of open computing is ending"

You bet your ass it's ending because they're ending it. If the universal pushing of Passport, .Net, and Palladium haven't convinced you yet, you need to do a little reading.

I am genuinely afraid of what personal computing will look like in ten years if Microsoft has their way, and I have never been too concerned in the past, so I am hardly an alarmist Microsoft conspiracy nut either.

Re:It's ending because they're ending it. (1)

Launch (66938) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951291)

To blame MS for ending open source is not fair.

MS makes software. Users make it a standard. If anyone is ending Open Source it's users... If Open Source had created products that truely had greater benefits then the products that microsoft offers then people would be using them, trust me, people don't have fun going to CompUSA to drop two bills on WinXP.

It's not like MS is undercutting their compition to kill them and then jack up prices (which I wouldn't put past MS) but the bottom line is that it isn't any cheaper then free as in beer.

Re:It's ending because they're ending it. (2, Insightful)

Zone5 (179243) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951332)

I didn't say anything about ending Open Source. I said they're ending open computing. Two different things.

Open source is of course, freely available source code. Open computing is the basic interoperability and data exchange upon which we all rely to make things 'just work' together. Try just for a minute to tell me that MS wouldn't foreclose on any interoperability standard they could if it would result in increased sales of their products.

Open source isn't ending, and it never will. It's currently our best hope for keeping MS as honest as possible.

Re:It's ending because they're ending it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951430)

If Open Source had created products that truely had greater benefits then the products that microsoft offers then people would be using them...

Hah! The only reason people use Micro$oft products is because MS managed to corner the OEM market some time back. Now people just think it's the only thing out there. Open Source stuff on the whole light years better (less bloated, less error-ridden, and when an error is found it's usually fixed quickly).

There's only two things an OS like Linux has going against it right now. Admittedly, it's harder for the average drooling idiot to set up. Two brownie points to whoever can tell me what the other obstacle is. (hint: it certainly couldn't be... oh... a rather large software company in Redmond... could it?)

Palladium? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951239)

After all, Palladium allows M$ to screw any GPL software, in hardware level.

.NET isn't a mistake for me.. (1)

hcgenius (139859) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951240)

The more crap like this that MS pushes, the more people will have distaste for MS...

Though.. you'd think after countless lawsuits people would have distaste.. so my logic may be flawed..

Re:.NET isn't a mistake for me.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951344)

You *would* think, but people are... I don't want to say "stupid," so I'll go with odd.

Witnesseth: the scads of users who, despite gobs of news (normal people news, not just nerd news) indicating what a bad idea it is, continue to use Outlook and Explorer. I know the average human doesn't give a rat's ass about ethics, but you'd think security might raise an eyebrow.

He's talking about his palladium (1, Troll)

triptolemeus (538604) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951241)

Palladium will end free exchange. It will also end all non signed software. And it will be forced upon us.

Re:He's talking about his palladium (1)

rushiferu (595361) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951412)

The sky hasn't fallen quite yet.

*DVD encryption prevents all DVD piracy.
*SDMI watermarks are an unbreakable way to secure digital music.
*DVD region codes allow for perfectly contained releases.
*Palladium will end all free exchange.

There's a way (not necessarly easy) around anything.
Hell, if the public outcry/outrage is strong enough in a few years we may be hearing Gates explaining how Palladium was a bit "premature".

boooooooo (0)

TurdFurgeson (592680) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951445)

I am disappointed in your post.

nothing will ever stop exchange of data that people want to exchange. if the data comes to your machine, you can capture it and share it.

do not forget that the creativity of a single person can and always will over come the system.

this is what we call change

Gates give company a "C" (4, Interesting)

pgpckt (312866) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951243)


According to the CNN article, Gates has gone with a report card scheme to give his company a "C" rating (for non-americans, grades can be A,B,C,D, or F (no E), and C is "average").

I guess it is nice to see a top Microsoft exec give a realistic review of the company. I wonder if the corperate scandles of late have anything to do with this unusual honesty? Perhaps Gates feared if he gave too rosey a picture, stock holders would be skeptical.

I think if we were really honest with ourselves, we would rate Linux at around the same score (perhaps C+). It is good to see our main competitor admit that we are on a level playing field :)

Re:Gates give company a "C" (1)

Azghoul (25786) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951286)

It is kind of surprising that we haven't heard about any new SEC investigations into MS's accounting practices. The only thing I can think of is that the SEC just called over to Justice and got all the details...

And I'd give Linux an A. I'd give all the applications and surrounding stuff a B-, but the kernel is good stuff.

Re:Gates give company a "C" (2)

pgpckt (312866) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951390)


I wasn't thinking about the quality of linux per se, but rather how we are doing in market penetration. We are growing, but we have a long way to go.

Re:Gates give company a "C" (2)

Sludge (1234) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951419)

Giving the company an 'A' would give a distinct impression of no room for improvement. The honesty of not giving 100% also helps with the credibility of the proceeding sentences.

Cheap office labor! (3, Funny)

teamhasnoi (554944) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951246)

when you said, 'These two systems have to connect. Bring in 200 consultants at $200 an hour,' are over."

One dollar an hour per consultant? I guess I know how much a MCSE certificate is worth nowadays. Hell, cheaper than temps, though.

Re:Cheap office labor! (1)

curtisk (191737) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951271)

Incorrect! That would be for a MS Certified Solution Provider @ $1 per / hour, plain ol' MCSE's are $0.60 per /hour.

Re:Cheap office labor! (2)

ceejayoz (567949) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951284)

I think there's an implicit "each" in there :-p

Re:Cheap office labor! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951360)

when you're using all your bandwidth to download that days new Linux .ISO image it's easy to miss details.

heh (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951251)

"Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending."

uh-huh

I'm warezing .NET right now.

M$=0wn3r1z3d

sorry Bill... (0)

red_five_standing_by (582037) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951252)

You can't buy Linux.

Hailstorm Not Ditched After All (1)

jgeelan (590550) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951253)

Look at what's said about Hailstorm here: http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/07/22/ 020722hnhailms.xml Microsoft embeds HailStorm into .Net

Marketing to blame (4, Insightful)

glh (14273) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951256)

I think the main problem with .NET is the marketing. .NET means somethind different to just about everyone.. To me as a developer it means the new development tools (ASP.NET, VB.NET, C#, Web Services). I definitely don't think that was a misstep- it is 100x better than its predecessor (COM). However, I think branding hailstorm and all the new version of the enterprise servers as .NET was a mistake. MS was trying to put everything under the .NET umbrella, but since some of those products/concepts have failed (ie hailstorm) it is now going to paint all things .NET in a negative light especially to people who aren't totally familiar with it. I hope they learn the lesson. I can remember visiting the web site several times that talks about what .NET is, and seeing it change about every month :)

Re:Marketing to blame (2, Troll)

Pfhreakaz0id (82141) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951364)

I was gonna say the exact same thing ... I don't give a crap about new servers, passport, hailstorm, some crap about web services (I mean INTERNET web services, business to consumer. I think that is hype, hype, hype... all the USEFUL web service stuff I've seen is between different units of the same business in different locations).

That said .NET/ASP+ rocks... I just wish we could stop buying into the Oracle hype/money machine where I work and actually use it. This is completely offtopic, but would someone tell me what, exactly is the point of going with a completely propietary Java/JSP solution by tying yourselves to Oracles tools so completely? Why not use JBOSS/Linux or even JBOSS on the Sun machines they already have? Your taxpayer dollars are paying good money to port from one completely propietary platform (2k/ASP) to another (ORACLE/SUN). The only difference? The latter costs more.

Here goes some karma... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951403)

Why not use JBOSS/Linux or even JBOSS on the Sun machines they already have?

JBoss doesn't have nearly the performance you need for a solid, production container. JBoss for testing and development is WONDERFUL, but for production, you're best to go with either BEA's Weblogic, or IBM's WebSphere.

what, exactly is the point of going with a completely propietary Java/JSP solution by tying yourselves to Oracles tools so completely?

Well, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is anything in .NET that competes with EJB technology in J2EE. No connection pooling, no data caching, nothing.
Also, Oracle tools access Oracle faster than anything you write in Java, including JDBC. Its best to let Oracle do as much as you can make it do, process wise (stored procedures, triggers, etc...) for performance.

Re:Marketing to blame (1)

pauljlucas (529435) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951380)

I think the main problem with .NET is the marketing. .NET means somethind different to just about everyone.
In the MacWorld keynote speech, Steve Jobs said in reference to Apple's revamped iTools service called .mac, "We know what it means."

I think people are getting more intelligent... (0)

croanon (567416) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951455)

...day by day, and understood in the end that .NET is not something that special at all. Maybe it is to blame. ;)

The seed of the .NET idea (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951260)

"Wouldn't it be great if there were something exactly like the Internet, except that we owned it?"

-- Paraphrased from Clay Shirkey

CNN has a story (4, Funny)

Wind_Walker (83965) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951264)

CNN [cnn.com] also has a story about Gates' .NET evaulation, and it says he gives is a 'C'.

I wonder how he grades the Xbox, with its horrific launch in Japan (still haven't sold through their initial 250,000 shipment), terrible software sales rate (less than 2 per console sold), and overall terrible showing at E3. He'd probably give it a 'C+', or maybe a 'C#'.

Re:CNN has a story (2)

ceejayoz (567949) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951307)

Did anyone ever expect it to do well right off the bat in Japan? I certainly didn't. With the PS2, it has incredibly strong & deep-rooted competition there, it'll take a long time to catch on.

MS has said from the beginning that their plan for the X-box is very long-term... I doubt they were expecting initial results other than what they have now.

Re:CNN has a story (3, Informative)

javilon (99157) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951384)

I guess he would give it an 'A' after the Xbox breaks US sales records [theregister.co.uk] .

They are very persistent and have lots of money. Do not understimate them.

Re:CNN has a story (1)

The_Shadows (255371) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951447)

"He'd probably give it a 'C+', or maybe a 'C#'."

Nah. He'd give it a Cg [slashdot.org] .

Mono progress continues (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951266)

Mono embedded in Gnumeric, running a web server and then an ASP.NET web page that allows people to modify
gnumeric values from ASP.

O'Reilly Mono Presentation [ximian.com]

Re:Mono progress continues (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951442)

Moron moderator - get a clue. This is 100% on topic - it shows what .Net compatable runtime, Mono, is capable of.

Mono embedded in Gnumeric, running a web server and then an ASP.NET web page that allows people to modify gnumeric values from ASP.

O'Reilly Mono Presentation [ximian.com]

Of course it's ending... (3, Interesting)

Stoutlimb (143245) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951276)

And Bill Gates knows it! He probably just had a business meeting with his emplo^H^H^H^H^Hcongressmen, and gave them a big fat bonus and new marching orders. When people this important make statements like this, either they're completely deluded about what's really going on in the world, or they're the ones who are trying very hard to bring such predictions about.

Not a MS bash (really) (5, Insightful)

FatRatBastard (7583) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951280)

... because this quote is dopey no matter who said it:
Jim Allchin, one of the company's top vice presidents, acknowledged the shift in focus in the industry from personal computers to plumbing, and bemoaned the difficulty of getting Microsoft's traditional consumers to care about its new vision.
Well gee, Jim, you have it a bit backwards don't you. Shouldn't the company care about its customers' vision? I mean, if Porsche designed a kick ass lawmower -- I mean a innovative leap in lawnmower technology -- would you expect Porsche's traditional to care about Porsche's new vision?

Re:Not a MS bash (really) (1)

DenOfEarth (162699) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951372)

I'm guessing that if Porsche decided to develop the next great thing in lawnmowers, all the porsche owners who take their cars to porsche festivals, and parade them around would probably buy the lawnmower too. :)

That being said, I agree that this is a skewed way of viewing the markets...it's as though the customer no longer decides what's is necessary, the producer does...I hope supply and demand cathes up with them cuz of it.

Re:Not a MS bash (really) (2)

zangdesign (462534) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951400)

The point of being in business (for a lot of companies) is to sell things. If you can't convince the consumer that your product is the end-all-be-all product to end their computer woes and clear up psoriasis, then you are doomed to fail.

Modern business doesn't wait for the customer to come to them - it goes to the customer and pushes it's products. This action is the product of competition. You absolutely have to outdo your competition in order to survive and grow.

Modern business can't play nice because nice guys finish second, if not last.

What _IS_ .NET? (2)

swordgeek (112599) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951283)

I think that part of the problem here is that .NET is this amorphous thing that MS has been pushing, without ever actually explaining. Sure we know what passport is, but that's one concrete part of...

what?

What is .NET?

Why should we care about it?

A better general VM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951336)

.Net is a universal VM that can (in principle) run any language efficiently - not just Java. Its CLR VM instructions are a superset of those of the JVM. Unlike Java it optionally allows for "unsafe" direct-memory and pointer referencing code for greatly increased speed.

Re:What _IS_ .NET? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951356)

What is .NET?
Why should we care about it?
.NET is the future. It's so amazing you cannot live without it. It would be too difficult to explain .NET in common layman's terms so just understand that .NET is the key to the computing industry for the next thousand years. Microsoft is the gatekeeper and .NET gives YOU the power to expand your horizons and move into the next era of computing by unlocking the doorway for a small monthly fee. Don't delay, call your authorized Microsoft Solutions provider today and tell them that you must take advantage of .NET immediately at whatever cost. Don't be left behind or you may never catch up to this exciting new technology.

Truthfully though, I have no idea what it is either. All I know is that I'll be switching all my computers to Microsoft XP Pro in the next few weeks so I can take advantage of it.. whatever it is. I love being on the leading edge of technology like this.

My Experience with .NET PASSPORT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951296)

I play Asherons Call. It's a good game, good dev team (Turbine) but the biggest pain to the game is the login process of .NET Passport.

This is what happens.

1. Select server to play on.

2. .NET asks if you want to sign in or register. If you are already signed in .NET forces you to sign out.

3. Type in your login information and wait about 5 minutes. A timeout page appears.

4. Hit the back button and type it in again. You get an error message about security. Click OK.

5. You are now logged in.

I swear I have to do this every single time! I've done it from two machines as well and I know at least one other person who has to put up with this.

I really can't see how they can sell this, unless they force you into it by locking it into other software (eg. Asherons Call).

Re:My Experience with .NET PASSPORT (1)

wichtolosaurus (558778) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951429)

You have totally missed the point about what .NET is.
.NET is NOT .NET Passport.
.NET Passport is the latest version of Passport, and the lastest versions are nowadays labeled " .NET" or ".NET ".
.NET itself is a rich execution environment, a framework that I love to use, maybe even a philosophy.
The problem with .NET at the moment is, that too many people believed crap like ".NET is only web services" or ".NET is jave for dictators".
As time goes by, people might start understanding what .NET really is. Watch out for rich clients, watch out for coding at ease.

MS's original intention. (5, Funny)

MongooseCN (139203) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951300)

MS believed that the way to avoid the problem of .COM's going under was to name their product .NET. I mean who's ever heard of a .net going under? Or the .net bubble burst? Clearly by naming their product .net, they would avoid all the problems the .com's had.

Oh really...? No. I don't think so. (3, Insightful)

Rahga (13479) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951301)

"Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending."

That will happen when they pry the webserver out of my dead hands.

Seriously, what is going to happen? MSN will supply all the content for the world? I doubt it.

http://www.rahga.com forever, and I suggest you do the same.

Re:Oh really...? No. I don't think so. (2, Troll)

RocketScientist (15198) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951365)

What will happen is this: All IE browsers will only load pages from "trusted" servers. You can only have a "trusted" server with Microsoft's blessing, specifically if it runs IIS. You can keep your webserver, because 95% of the computer market won't be able to see your pages anyway, or at the very least will get a warning that contains the word "illegal" at least once.

It's all about making your security holes work for you.

Tries? LOL (1)

YahoKa (577942) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951303)

Keyword: Tries

Obligatory quote (1)

Salsaman (141471) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951441)

Do, or do not. There is no 'try'.

Ending? Whateva! (1)

ZipperHead99 (121585) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951304)

"Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending."

Haven't they been saying this for oh um... 5 years now?

Not sure what to make of this (1)

mistermoonlight (80842) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951308)

With this article and the news of .Net working with Apache and Oracle databases, I'm tempted to say "embrace and extend with modesty?"

Is he trying to make it look like MS doesn't want control over data management, just buddy up with the competition?

Why would he even admit this?

Money, Money, Money (2)

N8F8 (4562) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951311)

Even if .NET is a step forward, many business probably face the same problems our company and customers are facing. With all the belt tightening going around, implementing a new platform and retraining a bunch of employees is just out of the question.

Re:Money, Money, Money (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951358)

Real programmers don't comment!
It was hard to write, It should be hard to read!

I hope that is sarcasm, or I hope that I never have to work at the same place as you. =]

free exchange? (3, Insightful)

bigpat (158134) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951317)

Well, I think we should see the writing on the wall for this one. No large monopolistic corporation can make good enough money on a free (as in Paul Revere) internet, so they are trying to divvy it up with proprietary systems and protocols to impose artificial monopolies.

Big companies may be able to undercut the competition at first, but the total cost of ownership will hurt you in the end.

Runnin Sacred! (1)

EvilBudMan (588716) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951326)

This FUD and M$ is runnin scared. Now if only the polititions that they bought off don't double cross them too and pass a nice new law that makes this new theory so.

This stuff has been going on for thousands of years. M$ is just newer. It's called the mushroom treatment. Keep them in the dark and feed the masses full of Sh$t. With the internet, this is not possible. That's why M$ will have to get a law passed to make that happen. Make sure they don't. Vote.

bleh (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951329)

I should never have started to read slashdot. I was so happy with my life beforehand. All this newsfeed does is make me afraid.

ugh

At least he admits it. (2)

Peyna (14792) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951330)

At least he admits that things didn't go well. I get sick of hearing about people saying how great their company is doing (or George Bush saying how great the economy is), when everyone knows it isn't true. I am happy that they can openly admit something didn't work out as well as they planned instead of faking results or whatever it is that everyone else seems to be doing these days.

Thank goodness Gates told the world... (2)

Navius Eurisko (322438) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951339)

open source computing is ending, I wouldn't have known it otherwise. Now I can finally get on with replacing my free, open source applications with commercial offerings. Thank you Bill!

They understand one problem... (5, Insightful)

interiot (50685) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951342)

  • Gates also acknowledged that confusion still reigns about .NET's very definition.
Good -- they understand one problem. People can perhaps point to the CLR and assoicated libraries, but .NET has been touted as much more than that, especially to non-techies.
  • On Wednesday, he hammered home a new definition: "software to connect information, people, systems and services."
Unfortunately, this definition doesn't help at all. Pretty much all internet-based software does this.

Definition? (2)

Interrobang (245315) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951435)

software to connect information, people, systems and services
That's not a definition, that's a mission statement. And like all mission statements I've ever seen, it's generalized (in the specific rhetorical sense) to the point of meaninglessness, and therefore, uselessness.

Microsoft, I mock in your general direction. With all that money, you can't find higher-calibre copywriting talent than that?! (Actually, having seen some of their press releases and other "marketing collateral," I now know that software isn't all Microsoft does badly.)

Open computing may end, somewhere (4, Insightful)

sam_handelman (519767) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951351)

Wherever "open computing" survives will become the dominant cultural force of the next century.

The United States is in a position to maintain cultural hegemony over the whole world - if we don't kill the free exchange of culture in order to make a quick buck.

If we do, I predict, within a couple of generations, that other parts of the world will have outpaced us. Killing open computing will destroy our best way-out of the recent doldrums in popular movies and music.

Server 2000 components weren't ".NET ready". (1)

EvilMagnus (32878) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951353)

Bill admits that all those Windows 2000 Server components (Exchange 2000, MSSQL 2000, Commerce 2000) weren't *really* .NET ready. They just said they were.

From The Register [theregister.co.uk] :
"Perhaps labeling those .NET products was premature," Gates said."[Since then] We've rolled out additions to those server products and now we have total support for XML and SOAP based capabilities."

That was nice, wasn't it? ;-p

The end of the Free exchange of info! (5, Interesting)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951373)

I am only worried about the goverment making Palladium the LAW. We need to tell the our goverment that.
1. You can not take away our freedoms.
2. we do not gives a rats ass about the Record companies.
3. We do give a rats ass about us.
The software compaines do not want DRM. Get talking to your reps.

The end of "Open Computing" (3, Funny)

fobbman (131816) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951376)

Does anyone know whether Gates was wearing ruby slippers when he made the above statement?

Snooze (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951379)

I already saw this on 15 other websites. What else you got for us today slashdot? Anything?

Oohhhhhh that's right I forgot, this site is all about LEECHING content from other sites.

Wait a Second (1)

KingKire64 (321470) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951381)

They released .Net?

It isn't clear ? (1)

NexusTw1n (580394) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951394)

It isn't clear if Microsoft is talking about something happening beyond their control, or if they're boasting about

Surely the " free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry" is exactly what the internet is supposed to be ?

It's quite clear that Gate's uberplan is to lock people into .NET, creating a proprietary internet , a plan started with IE and continued with Passport.

If he's talking about Open Source, he's clearly in FUD mode. Perhaps running scared from the latest UK Government proposals [theregister.co.uk] to look at Open Source software in a more postive light.

the demise of "open computing" (1)

Plug1 (588101) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951409)

I think it is interesting that Microsoft and various corporations are letting people know that their freedoms are gone. It almost seems that they think they can tell us "Well we tried out that freedom stuff and it just wasnt profitable so here is what you get now" and we're all supposed to just say thanks corporate america life with free expression was overated. The world is in a time of transition. What happens now will shape the course of freedom in the future. If we dont stand up now who knows whats next John Ashcroft warning that the area of "open speech" is over?

What I'd really like to know... (1)

windside (112784) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951418)

Is if someone at Microsoft can explain what the mythological construct of .NET is supposed to be. To me, .NET seems to be a generation of software, a plan to end all plans, a poorly woven mesh to weave together MS's myriad products, OR a documentation nightmare. Are they perhaps putting all of their eggs in the .NET basket?

Oh thank god... (3, Interesting)

da3dAlus (20553) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951422)

I thought I was the only one who didn't get the whole .NET thing. Since that hype machine started up last year, I heard so many things from other programmers (who love MS products) talking about VB.NET and other .NET applications. I repeatedly asked them, what's the difference between the old environment and the new one, or simply what good is it all. Never have I recieved a clear answer of what it is, how it works, or what good it is. I'm not saying anything bad (or even good) about the whole .NET thing, I'm just saying that I've never heard a compelling argument from anyone who seems to fully understand it all. I think that right there proves that the idea didn't catch on.

As long as M$ puts out crap.... (2)

i_want_you_to_throw_ (559379) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951431)

Open computing will be just fine. The genie will not go back in the bottle. Worried about Palladium? Now seriously, how long do you think it will be before there's a code work around for that? If I'm building a box am I going to include a Palladium component. My ass....

"Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending."

Please....
This is Microsoft wishful thinking. M$ is full of shit and always has been.

The system, the superior one, will always reign supreme. (except for maybe beta).

Bought my first Mac with OS X yesterday. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951434)

Worth every penny. Darwin is sweet and it's by far the best user interface available. Dont get me wrong, I like Windows and Linux. They just dont compare in ease of use.

Now if Apple could only figure out that they need to lower the prices to decent levels. Just like DELL you can make as much profit on volume as gouging your customer-base.

Say what you will... (-1, Troll)

nakhla (68363) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951444)

Say what you will about Bill Gates, Windows, Microsoft, et al. But Gates' vision of .NET and what Windows will become is far more innovative than anything Linux has come up with or hopes to be. I'm a big fan of Linux, and use it for the majority of my work. But Microsoft is dead on when they talk about needing "freedom to innovate". Why? Because they actually ARE innovative. Sure, the technology the implement may not be new or revolutionary. But, they are enhancing the desktop experience and providing users with something that no one else (with the possible future exception of Apple and OS X) can or will provide.

I hear people talk about how wonderful Linux is, it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, MS can't hold a candle to it, etc. And yes, the scalability and reliability of Linux are far superior. But what is Linux doing that's new or different? At best Linux is a clone. A clone of UNIX, as far as the OS is concerned. A clone of Windows as far as the user interface and applications are concerned -- and a bad one at that. Evolution? A poor Outlook clone. KDE/GNOME? Poor clones for Windows' desktop.

I use these applications a lot, and I love them. But why should someone switch from Outlook/Word/Excel/etc. when there's no value added? Apple has it right, as they're trying to enhance, not only the stability and technology in their OS, but also the functionality. iSync sounds like an incredible product that will begin to tie all of these digital devices together. Why isn't Linux doing this? Newer versions of Office will (they may already, I don't have XP) be able to tie in to web services automatically. Have an entry in your Outlook contacts list? Click on their name and you can get a map to their house, find out how the weather is where they are, etc.

I don't want to bad-mouth Linux. But why aren't the powers that be trying to do anything new? Ximian has produced a great distribution of GNOME. But when push comes to shove, it's simply a desktop shell. Nothing revolutionary about it. Why aren't companies/developer groups trying to push the envelope and move Linux from being a clone to being something that wows people, turns heads, and truly innovates?

Survey says... (-1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951446)

.NET? .NOT!

_NOW_ I know what .NET is (1)

RisingSon (107571) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951449)

From the article (emphasis added):
Gates also acknowledged that confusion still reigns about .NET's very definition. On Wednesday, he hammered home a new definition: "software to connect information, people, systems and services."

What is that noise? That would be the sarcasm meter exploding due to an overload.

New slogan for Sun (1)

ch-chuck (9622) | more than 12 years ago | (#3951453)

"We're the dot in .NET"

NASDAQ:MSFT is currently 43.86, new lows if anyone thinks a company with that much cash and captive customers is undervalued and has a future.

Institute de Linuxville Report (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3951457)

States (9 anyway) that the daze of payper liesense, stock markup bookFUDging FraUD, are .comming to an end. this is something that's beyond our .controll, so we've decided to brag about IT.

Several indictmeNTs are anticipated.
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