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Microsoft Says IBM/Linux Their Biggest Threat

CmdrTaco posted more than 11 years ago | from the just-not-much-of-one dept.

Microsoft 466

krypt0n0mic0n writes "An article at The Register shows that Microsoft sees IBM and Linux as the biggest threats to their market domination. Microsoft's Eric Rudder is quoted as saying that Linux is a "formidable" challenge and that "IBM is our greatest competitor. In the way they sell products and compete in corporate accounts." It goes on to say that they believe the NET server will be a challenge to these competitors."

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466 comments

I don't think so (1)

Huogo (544272) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959501)

With the track record of IIS, I doubt that many companies will buy into another MS web server.

Re:I don't think so (2, Insightful)

N3WBI3 (595976) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959646)

Remember that at most company the techs dont make the decisions.. I work in an itdev shop and we had a PM come up to us and demend we screap of linux/apache web server and replace it with IIS because he like some of the widgets...

Re:I don't think so (2)

npietraniec (519210) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959751)

Well, I may be in the minority, but if the CFO (my boss's boss) came up to me and said "I think we should use IIS because it looks pretty," I'd call a meeting and help him to understand why a web server shouldn't be chosen based on screenshots. In the end I'm sure I'd have my way because I'm the one with the expertise and he knows that... I read a lot of "Until the president comes up to you and says the wants you to use X because he saw an ad for it in X magazine..." on Slashdot, but I really don't see any of that at my work. Am I really in such a minority?

Re:I don't think so (1)

Corporate Troll (537873) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959654)

You imply that people who make the buying decisions actually know there is something else than Microsoft, that it is better and cheaper?
Forget it....Mostly it's managers that make decisions, and not the technicians. The logic is, "Excell is great, so must be their other products".

Re:I don't think so (2, Funny)

drightler (233032) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959779)

In my experiece with managers it alomost seems like the logic is "It must be great, look at how much money they charge for it!".

Wow (1, Troll)

unicron (20286) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959506)

You mean to tell me a stable os might pose a challenge to a buggy one in the IT market? Ahh, get out. I don't believe it.

Comments on sig (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959659)

"Arrogance and Ignorance go hand in hand"

Hey, it's the American way!

the enterprise will determine who wins (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959507)

To defeat Microsoft, dominance of non-M$ technologies in the enterprise area is key.
If they gain a significant foothold there, their control will be near total, and they'll
have a cash source with which to fund the ultimate destruction of all competetors.

Conversely, if Linux/Unix/Java win the enterprise space, Microsoft will have no new source
of revenue and the encroachment of deskop alternatives (OSX and Linux and BSD) will
eventually destroy their financial base.

It's important to ensure that the .NET CLR is either a non-starter (as it's been thus far), or
that quality, truly open source, implementations exist on non-MS platforms. Whatever they
say, Microsoft wants to control the uptake of .NET in such a way that business software will
really only run on their platforms. They're not producing a public standard for the sake of being
good corporate citizens. They're going to try to ensure that they're the . in .NET, and that solutions
that would have gone Java will go their way on their software. There's no incentive to have
real competition in server platforms for .NET applications. The point of .NET is to sell more
copies of windows, SQLServer, and Visual Studio.

Dupe Article (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959508)

Perl is supposed to be so l33t with text functions
can't u hack a quick title/link search

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/07/17/0235 24 4&mode=thread&tid=109

Lots of Competitors now... (2, Interesting)

djcatnip (551428) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959509)

Funny how that's all they talk about now, who their competitors are.

MS went on to say... (0, Troll)

KingKire64 (321470) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959511)

"We believe IBM is a Monopoly and should be broken up by the government. They impeed on our ability to smash competitors."

Images from bad movies (2, Funny)

interstellar_donkey (200782) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959517)

We've done it! We've captured the MS brain bug!

Doogie puts his hands on it.

"It's... It's afraid!"

Crowd cheers.

Re:Images from bad movies (1, Offtopic)

CaffeineAddict2001 (518485) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959562)

It's shameful how bad that movie was compaired to the book. Heinlein is rolling in his grave.

Re:Images from bad movies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959636)

Wasn't the "badness" of that movie the whole idea?

Re:Images from bad movies (1)

platypus (18156) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959702)

Wasn't the "badness" of that movie the whole idea?

It's really amazing how this movie seperates people. Yes I'm also quite sure that this movie did indeed use some form of "badness" to get a message across. But I'm also still trying to find out what differentiates others and me from the people who don't think that.

Re:Images from bad movies (1)

Noofus (114264) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959715)

I always thought this movie was "awful" on purpose. As a sort of satire to all the communist propoganda from years ago.

I had to watch it 3 times before I picked up on that fact. I too thought it was just another lame 'kill the aliens' movie. It took a while before it all became clear :)

Re:Images from bad movies (1)

Jennifer Ever (523473) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959725)

Bad movies? Bad movies?!

That movie was fucking brilliant.

(Honestly, I don't know if this is sarcasm either.)

Microsoft business plan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959522)

1. Call competitors a threat
2. ?
3. Profit

Re:Microsoft business plan (2, Redundant)

b_pretender (105284) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959626)

1. Pay lip service to "not being a monopoly"
2. Avoid antitrust investigation/litigation
3. Profit (using anticompetitive methods)

Re:Microsoft business plan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959647)

' ---------- Joke

. ---------- You ...And that's sad, considering it's a South Park joke.

Microsoft (2)

sheepab (461960) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959524)

Microsoft: What virus will you choose next?

Anyway, with that said, why wouldnt they consider Linux/IBM (why is IBM first in the headlines?) a threat, doesnt linux have the largest chunk of the server market?

Re:Microsoft (1)

Hatechall (541378) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959599)

Lets see, who do you think is a bigger name, has more marketing exposure, a bigger advertising budget, more employees, greater income, more products, more shelf exposure, higher name recognition and has been that way for many, many years?
And don't you think people who make the headlines would want to put the recognisable name first?

Re:Microsoft (2, Insightful)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959762)

doesnt linux have the largest chunk of the server market?

depends which server market you are talking about.

Good.... (1)

Shade1001 (594630) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959525)

Well, it'a always great to hear that at least something is threatening them! Microsoft seems to be so full of themselves, they don't even consider others. Now if this threat is Linux, then so much the better.

Biggest, maybe... (1)

march (215947) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959529)

Maybe IBM/(GNU)Linux is M$'s biggest threat, but that can be equated to saying that David is Goliath's biggest threat. Sure, once in a while David will win, but what are the odds as they stand now?

Let's just hope that Linux wins the same one that David did.

Help Microsoft Donations! (1, Funny)

jsonmez (544764) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959531)

I am starting a fund to help Microsoft since IBM and Linux are being mean to M$. Please send me money so we can help our favorite company when they are in a time of need.

Biggest Threats? What about consumer benefits? (2, Insightful)

Frobnicator (565869) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959532)

I thought the systems were supposed to be useful, not just purchased. The headline shows corporate greed, once again.

I would like to see a headline like "Microsoft is concerned IBM and Linux may offer more consumer benefits".

Re:Biggest Threats? What about consumer benefits? (1)

mr. marbles (19251) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959639)

who's greed? Microsoft's for wanting to dominate the market or the register's for wanting to shock readers with controversial headlines?

Re:Biggest Threats? What about consumer benefits? (1)

Frobnicator (565869) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959767)

who's greed?

... Or the stock market day-traders for encouraging this type of announcement? Or politicians for accepting so much in bribes and donations from the companies to let them abuse the markets? Or the managers who assume that big company == good products? Or (your favorite pet-peeve here).

I think just greed generally.

-=Sigh=- Call me communistic, but I would love a world where everyone can have everything they need and what they want, within reason. Peer reviews let people have the things that are beyond reason. The world has more than enough of everything. Get rid of greed, set up proper distribution systems, and allow everyone to have all that they want.

Well, back to the world in which we live.

bet your ass.. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959536)

...that IBM is a threat. A company does not persist for four generations and a hundread years (1896) [digidome.nl] without doing things the right way. IBM will continue to be around long after these kiddos have crashed and burned. IBM knows how to do things and how to do them correctly.

Re:bet your ass.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959770)

IBM knows how to do things and how to do them correctly.
Eh, the IBM PC with preinstalled Microsoft operating system anybody?

Used to be (4, Funny)

Bilbo (7015) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959540)

Humm... Before, we were a cancer. Now, we're a puppy. Well, that's a step up... I think.

Re:Used to be (1, Offtopic)

Peyna (14792) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959567)

Puppy's only live 12 years and age 6/7 times as fast as people. Cancer would be better, eating away at Microsoft in their old days until there is nothing left.

Re:Used to be (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959650)

Humm... Before, we were a cancer. Now, we're a puppy. Well, that's a step up... I think.

So is microsoft saying they are trying to kill puppies?

Good old Way-Back Machine.. (5, Insightful)

lionchild (581331) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959549)

Let's all get in our good old Way-Back Machines, and travel back in time... Does anyone remember that joint venture product IBM was putting out? OS/2, version 1.3...then later version 2...and Warp, etc..? For anyone whose been fortunate enough to really work with any of the old OS/2 products, you'll remember that when correctly installed and configured, they're still a very rock solid product. Not much the same can be said for most of the current M$ products, save perhaps Win 2k.

The difference between these two corporate giants is that they really are opposites of one another. You see, IBM -can- make good, rock-solid products...however, they couldn't market themselves out of a wet paper bag. :- While our "friends" and M$ could sell sand to a man stranded in the desert, sometimes the products they rush out aren't as solid as we'd like them to be.

I can see how M$ would be threatened. If IBM learned how to market things, they could be a formidable player.

Re:Good old Way-Back Machine.. (5, Insightful)

turgid (580780) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959621)

...and you've forgotten, or maybe are too young to remember, when it was IBM that had the virtual monopoly...

Maybe Microsoft is about to Microchannel Architectur e itself? "The era of open computing has ended"

Maybe intel is doing the same with itanium...

There comes a time when the market can no longer sustain the over-ambitious revenue plans of monopolies.

Re:Good old Way-Back Machine.. (4, Interesting)

Bobzibub (20561) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959658)

I remember!!!

MS threatened to jack up their prices for W95 if they marketed their competition, and that would have been the death of their PC line. IBM was *forced* not to market OS/2.

It didn't make any sense why OS/2 was left to die at the time but it all came out in court documents later.

Happily, Linux being a kind of "public good" this is a real problem for MS this time around. No one set of thumbs to screw, nails to pull.

Cheers,
-b

Re:Good old Way-Back Machine.. (2)

Telastyn (206146) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959663)

Wouldn't it be great if these two companies put their heads together and made great selling, rock solid products?

Now THAT would be a monopoly.

Re:Good old Way-Back Machine.. (2)

mblase (200735) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959664)

I can see how M$ would be threatened.

I do appreciate your writing about Microsoft. When you spell Microsoft "M$", though, this is what I picture [penny-arcade.com].

Re:Good old Way-Back Machine.. (1)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959704)

I'm so glad PA did that. It makes it much easier to discuss how I view the anti-MS audience.

Re:Good old Way-Back Machine.. (2, Informative)

tshak (173364) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959682)

they're still a very rock solid product. Not much the same can be said for most of the current M$ products, save perhaps Win 2k.


Or, if you want to be objective instead of bashing based on bias:

Software:
Win 2K (as mentioned)
SqlServer 2000
.NET (the Framework) and ASP.NET
Exchange Server 2000
VS.NET
IE 6.0.2600 (gotta love that build number!)
IIS 6.0 (okay, this isn't fair because it isn't even out - but _I_ know that it rocks from experience :-)
VS.NET (still needs work but is probably one of the most stable IDE's I've ever used)

Hardware:
MS IntelliMouse
XBox and peripherals (incredibly high quality, regardless of your console preference)
MS Joysticks (all of them)
OK... pretty much all MS hardware.

Re:Good old Way-Back Machine.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959721)

VS.NET (still needs work but is probably one of the most stable IDE's I've ever used That's amusing. Vim's never crashed on me.

Re:Good old Way-Back Machine.. (1)

(startx) (37027) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959791)

You've got to be joking when you put echange 2000 on that list. It's the crappiest PoS on the market to date. It has constant crashes, numerous security flaws, and constantly corrupts the databases that it's stores email in!

Re:Good old Way-Back Machine.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959726)


",i>Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]"

groooaaannn... very good 8-)

But is it housetrained? (5, Funny)

Bodhammer (559311) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959551)

"Linux is free like a puppy." I've used Linux for years and it only occasionally craps on the carpet or chews my shoes. Now Windows on the otherhand...

Re:But is it housetrained? (4, Funny)

g()()ber (593052) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959635)

Windows allow thieves to crawl into my house and catch fire to my carpets and steal my shoes.

To die by the hand that feeds you. (4, Interesting)

suso (153703) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959555)

I find this rather ironic since Microsoft's big break in the beginning was to be able to create MS-DOS for IBM.

IBM/Linux?? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959561)

Excuse me, I object! You must mean IBM/GNU/Linux!!!

Re:IBM/Linux?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959669)

Ahem, you mean

IBM/(GNU/Linux)

Getting rid of the parentheses gives

IBM/GNU*Linux

Yeah, a lot more to an operating system (0)

paladin_tom (533027) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959564)

"There's a lot more than I/O and memory management to make up an operating system." According to Microsoft, for example, an operating system must include an integrated web browser. :P

Re:Yeah, a lot more to an operating system (1)

NoahsMyBro (569357) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959596)

And spyware, DRM, activation codes, etc, etc....

Re:Yeah, a lot more to an operating system (0)

paladin_tom (533027) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959761)

And cute little puppies that help you search for your files....

Of course, MS's Fressner would point out all the extra costs that cute little puppy brings!

This *is* a surprise, I must say. (2, Funny)

Dthoma (593797) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959571)

"Microsoft sees IBM and Linux as the biggest threats to their market domination."

In further news, the sky is blue.

Re:This *is* a surprise, I must say. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959594)

WTF are you talking about .. blue. hahaha.

D-U-H! (2)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959581)

Microsoft's Eric Rudder is this years winning of the "Blatantly Obvious Award" for those that point out the obvious two years after it was first obvious.

This really isn't news. Just MS admitting to it (after everyone else already knew it).

Re:D-U-H! (5, Funny)

unicron (20286) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959697)

I just love the Slashdot news filtration system:

Routers story: Microsoft announced today they are changing one of the business plans of one of their departments for a limited amount of time in order to better compete with linux.

----SLASHDOT FILTER ACTIVATED----

MICROSOFT, THE SCURVY DOGS OF REDMON, HAVE ADMITTED UTTER DEFEAT!! EARLY THIS MORNING, BILL GATES HIMSELF, THE HIVE MIND OVERLORD, WAS DRAGGED KICKING AND SCREAMING INTO THE STREET WHERE HE WAS JUSTLY AND FAIRLY BEAT TO DEATH BY 20 SCRAWNY, PALE TEENAGERS. THIS IS A GREAT DAY INDEED FOR LINUX FANS, AND LET IT BE KNOWN SUCH IS THE FATE TO ANYONE WHO MAY CHALLENGE OUR O.S.

WORD IS BOND!

IMB/Linux and... (0)

SquireCD (465008) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959582)

Yeah, well... I use linux but I don't think linux is as big as a treat as the US Government trying to axe them up into a few pieces ;)

continued growth (5, Interesting)

f00zbll (526151) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959586)

I told by a CEO once when asked about the future of the company. He drew the following comparison. "We have no revenue right now, so we can only go up. Whereas some one like MS has to always push to sustain the growth, because if they don't the stock market will think they've peaked and are on their way down."

Microsoft has to become a major player in enterprises services. If they don't they won't be able to sustain their past growth rates. The OS is rapidly becoming a commodity, now that win 2K is stable enough that that most people don't need to upgrade ever again. Win 2K already does what most people want and more, so the only way to continue to grow is new markets.

That everyone already knows. Microsoft is doing all these interviews to paint a picture that .NET really is ready for the enterprise world of 24/7 computing. Back in 98 MS commissioned some company to prove SQL Server was good enough to run the NY EX, but everyone in the RDBMS business knows Sybase ASE run the stock market. Is it possible that if MS can't get it's act together with .NET, that they have reached their peek?

Re:continued growth (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959644)

IBM announced a deal a few months ago that would see the NYSE move to DB2. Take that, Sybase!

Re:continued growth (1)

f00zbll (526151) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959691)

IBM announced a deal a few months ago that would see the NYSE move to DB2. Take that, Sybase! I stand corrected. Why wasn't that article posted on /.? That's real news, not this other junk.

Re:continued growth (3, Insightful)

Corporate Troll (537873) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959749)

now that win 2K is stable enough that most people don't need to upgrade ever again

Yes, that is what I said about Windows NT4. I liked it (once I understood it), and thought this is all I need. However hardware evolved and in came Plug And Play devices and later on USB (and AGP, but that was supported by the graphics card manufacturers). Both were never added to Windows NT4. Why is completely beyond me, but it all makes sense. To have those feature you need Windows 2000. Don't underestimate the evolution in hardware: if your OS doesn't support it you will need to upgrade. That is exactly what will happen in the next iteration of Microsoft operating systems. It's just a matter of time.

Re:continued growth (2)

Ralph Wiggam (22354) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959774)

"...now that win 2K is stable enough that that most people don't need to upgrade ever again."

I don't know about the "ever again" part, but I agree is that W2k pro is by far and away the best OS that MS has produced so far. That's why I found it very interesting that Dell (and I assume other retailers) have been forbidden from offering 2k on home systems since March. XP is now the only OS they'll sell you. Hmmmm...I wonder why?

-B

Amazing! (1)

PMadavi (583271) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959590)

They don't completely dominate one aspect of the computer market and suddenly there's a threat to their company.

The problem with M$, of course is that they dominate the o/s applicatin market as well as the o/s market. Good thing "president" bush is in office, otherwise the gov. might have actually been able to come down on M$ and split it up.

If corporations have access to cheap office applications that are M$ compatible, reliable, and well programmed (i.e. no back-orifice type problems), then the revolution can begin.

Microsoft's enemy (1)

Bandito (134369) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959598)

It seems like Microsoft's biggest threat is anyone that they can make sound plausible to the DOJ.

.NET, a typoed name? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959605)

He believes the planned Windows. NET Server will issue a further challenge.

It's hard to type about .NET when microsoft software swap space-dot for dot-space. I guess I need to upgrade to MS Word .NET.

IBM/Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959608)

Computing-world saints :-)

What would've geeks thought of that 20 years ago...

A version of windows for the Power4 chip? (2, Interesting)

DeafDumbBlind (264205) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959610)

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=4639

If true, it would make sense that the Power4 is one of those chicp.

New Saying: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959612)

However, Flessner articulated Microsoft's response to Linux. "Linux is free like a puppy. It looks free but when you get all the pieces around it, it doesn't work out so free."

Free as in Beer Free as in Speech Free as in Puppy?

More interesting is... (1)

Just Jeff (5760) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959618)

More interesting is that Microsoft doesn't see penalties from illegal business practices as a threat. I suppose its a realistic assessment, but its still disapointing that given the choice between illegal business prectices and actual competition, Microsoft's choice is easy...

More FUD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959623)

This is just another vein of FUD. They aren't worried about Linux anymore, which is why they publish this stuff.

They have already determined that linux isn't a threat, or developed a strategy to deal with it that they are comfortable with.

Since the have done that, that gives them room to pretend to be scared, worried about impending failure for several reasons. The greatest of which is to pretend that they have competition, so they can try to get out from under this Monopoly stigma.

When Apple just about went belly up they did one better, they invested heavily in Apple. The whole reason they did that was to have some semblance of competition. Sure they are non-voting shares, but it was a large investment of cash that Apple desperatly needed. The ends that MS will go to to maintain its "Not quite a monopoly" status is astounding.

Checking the clocks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959627)

"IBM is our greatest competitor. In the way they sell products and compete in corporate accounts."

Just a second... nope, it's still 2002 after all.

Formidable Challenger? (3, Insightful)

SuperHighImpact (463360) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959640)

Before everyone gets overexcited and declares a victory of some sort, let's examine possible Micro$oft motives for saying this. It helps them "prove" that they are not a monopoly. By definition, monopolies don't have "formidable challengers."

I have a hard time believing that this (and anything statements from M$) are anything but strategically thought out ways to further line their pockets.

No, their not just being "frank."

Finally (1)

Quantum Singularity (594841) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959660)

Looks like Linux is finally getting some serious recognition here. Maybe Microsoft should just give up and come out with an updated, 32-bit Xenix. Or would they mess that up too?

Remember the trial... (5, Interesting)

Kefaa (76147) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959671)

We have still not finalized the penalty phase. So now that MS has "true competition" the DOJs
proposal makes perfect sense. MS has been pushed aside in the onslaught of the IBM/Linux OS machine.

While the sarcasm light was on, let's face it, MS announces nothing that does not benefit them directly. If they are claiming IBM/Linux is a threat it is because they need to be seen as having a competitor.

Now the question remains "Why?"

Why do they get away with their TCO nonsense? (5, Insightful)

kafka93 (243640) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959680)

It seems that Microsoft has been using the "Linux is only free if your time isn't worth anything" argument far too often without any real response from the OSS/Free software community. Certainly, we all understand the fallacy of the argument, but I think that this is an underappreciated attempt on marketing spin by Microsoft which isn't being properly addressed.

Yes, implementation always costs money. GNU/Linux is no different from any other operating system in this respect. But why is nobody in the media pointing out that *implementing and maintaining Microsoft software is similarly time consuming* and that, over any reasonable period of time, it's *at least as costly* as Linux? By allowing these constant references to "Linux being free like a puppy", and by not responding with incredulity, we're aiding Microsoft. It might seem obvious to you and me that the spin is silly, but journalists appear to be buying into it -- and so will potential users who are already frightened by the concept of arcane shells and incompatible office documents.

The true benefits of Linux need to be restated - as well as being 'free', it's also robust, powerful, usable. I'm concerned that these concessions by Microsoft are really just new forms of attack upon Linux - attacks that are potentially more damaging than the previous tactic of ignoring the operating system completely, since they play to the concerns of non-technical users (and management).

Thousands of happy Linux users can -- and must -- attest to the fact that Linux just works better for a large number of tasks. The ideas that it's more difficult to use well and involves more effort and money to deploy successfully are simply untrue, at least on the server market.

Re:Why do they get away with their TCO nonsense? (1, Flamebait)

An Ominous Coward (13324) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959723)

It seems that Microsoft has been using the "Linux is only free if your time isn't worth anything" argument far too often without any real response from the OSS/Free software community.

Because it's true.

But why is nobody in the media pointing out that *implementing and maintaining Microsoft software is similarly time consuming* and that, over any reasonable period of time, it's *at least as costly* as Linux?

Because it's not true.

The true benefits of Linux need to be restated - as well as being 'free', it's also robust, powerful, usable.

Ha!

(Good-bye, Karma)

because don't always choose the best solution (2)

joeflies (529536) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959789)

Companies choose solutions based that makes the most sense, and the finances play a HUGE part of it.

So if you have two solutions, one based on Microsoft, perhaps not the best tool for the job, but it has some TCO numbers to make a decision, and you have another solution based on Linux, with great technical data but no long term financials, then guess who wins?

I think nearly all TCO studies have flaws, but like it or not, it's a big factor for enterprise decision makers.

Hopefully, now that analysts are doing TCO on linux solutions, this will all change.

IBM Linux Presentation (4, Insightful)

essiescreet (553257) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959681)

I was at a tech show a few months ago, and saw an IBM Linux demo by an IBM guy.

He made a big deal about how much money IBM spent on linux development, and how they made it back within a year.

He also said that they were going to port *ALL* of their products to *ALL* of their hardware lines at a point in the futire.

Think of the implications of this. You can buy an eleventy thousand dollar site lisc. for Microsoft Whatever 2004 and a support contract with Microsoft, or you can buy a $40 copy of RedHat linux and a support contract with RedHat.

That is quite a competitive standpoint for linux in general...

Can you say 'embrace and extend'? (4, Insightful)

alyosha1 (581809) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959685)

"Rudder said in 2003 Microsoft must ensure .NET becomes the preferred architecture for application development. To achieve this, Microsoft must convert millions of developers using existing versions of C/C++ and Visual Basic onto .NET versions of the company's languages." So, I should stop writing C/C++ code that will compile on practically any architecture in existence, and switch to Microsoft's proprietary version that will limit my users to a single vendor's platform? The advantage to me as a developer is what exactly?

and what about REAL IRON (1)

Ozric (30691) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959690)

Not to mention that IBM has real server lines like RS6000, S390 and AS/400.(I forget the new names, old school... dont cha know) The last time I check MS does not even have a 64bit OS and what it does have only runs on x86. Not what I would want for my
Enterprise Data Warehousing needs. Desktop maybe servers, No Way, MS costs too much and offers nothing for it.

Two Monopolies... (1)

Black-Man (198831) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959701)

Big deal. Maybe they can kill each other off.

Folks on here are probably too young to remember IBM's play with their mainframes (still exists to some extent today) in the early 80's, before UNIX became scalable and a formidable foe.

Well Done, Cmdr. Taco (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3959713)

Goood choice - you've still got it. I predict over a thousand posts and 50,000 page views, mostly pro-Linux and anti-MS (not that there's anything wrong with that). This should get the old add revenues up! It is getting close to the end of the month, but it'll still go into this month's sales. Well done. We love to make money from Microsoft.

Thanks and Attaboy,

The Boss at OSDN

Open up! (2, Insightful)

EvilBudMan (588716) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959714)

-- "We need to build a vibrant and healthy developer community. That's the lesson Linux has taught us. Having people to help. Knowing where to get questions answered," Rudder said. --

M$, open up some of your source code. That might help.

i just don't care (0)

mallsop (262039) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959716)

maybe ms should buy ibm then

how about some road rage on the information superhighway?

I thought.... (2)

liquidsin (398151) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959722)

...we were supposed to call it GNU/Linux, not IBM/Linux. Let's hope RMS isn't reading /. today.

In Related News: (5, Funny)

dubiousmike (558126) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959741)

Ford announced IT'S biggest competitors were other car manufacturers.

Duh...
Who else makes OSs for PC architecture.

IBM name change (5, Funny)

Roached (84015) | more than 11 years ago | (#3959764)

...and in other news, Stallman is demanding that IBM henceforth refer to itself as GNU/IBM...
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