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Amazon Quietly Yanks Discount for Mac OS X 10.2

pudge posted more than 12 years ago | from the easy-come-easy-go dept.

OS X 102

WCityMike writes "Amazon has quietly revoked the $50 rebate for Mac OS X 10.2 it was supposedly offering through September 3. The rebate form was updated to reflect this a few hours later. While theories as to why abound (including supposed involvement from Apple), some have reasonably pointed out that Amazon may not have expected as voluminous a response as they got, making the rebate a potentially major cash loss had it continued at that volume. People who already placed their orders should probably contact Amazon, while the rest of us can simply continue hoping Apple will offer its own 'rebate'." I think maybe it was a mistake; the rebate form I saw originally never had Mac OS X 10.2 on it.

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Oops!! (2)

b_pretender (105284) | more than 12 years ago | (#3995521)

Hopefully they will at least honor the people who already pre-ordered OS X 10.2.

It's okay if it was a mistake and they were forced to take it down.

Now it's time for everybody to make friends with a college student to get the Apple-Student-$50 discount.

they said they will..... (2)

johnpaul191 (240105) | more than 12 years ago | (#3996882)

they said they will honor orders that were already completed.... too bad mine was/is sitting in my cart. i figured there was no hurry to pre-order and was trying to figure out what DVDs i should buy. i figured i easily went over the free shipping price, so i might as well buy a few books and DVDs that are not always in local stores. oops.
from how they are acting and that one copy of the wonky rebate form i wonder if it was an error. i can see a huge discount coming on remaining copies of 10.1.3, but who the hell would want to buy it? it's not like 9.2 where some machines won't run OS X. if your machine runs OS X then i can't see why it won't run 10.2 even better (faster too).
Amazon has acknowledged errors in the past too. they honor the completed orders, but from then on scrap the deal.

Re:they said they will..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3996970)

If you buy 10.1.3 after the keynote, you can get 10.2 for $19.95 from the Mac OS X up-to-date program [apple.com] .

For the really patient and stingy out there... wait until 10.1.3 drops to about $50, buy it, and mail in the upgrade coupon. Then again, there's always a chance the price won't go down.

What's wrong with making money? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3995532)

Don't think we'll see Amazon delisted any time soon.

`AREDUBYAESS

Hint Apple... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3995549)

If you want greater adoption CHARGE LESS! This should also be patently obvious to Microsoft andf their office X suite. I know it's a good deal 150 improvements. BUT if apple is really serious about greater influence they will bite the bullet and charge less then they originally proposed. Jaguar by itself will convince wintel users to switch. Hell, I'd be giving this away on the condition that you show it off to three of your friends.

Re:Hint Apple... (1)

chump daddy (594222) | more than 12 years ago | (#3996197)

then how would you make money??? os-x costs a lot less than wintendows does.. and you get a few other nifty features like the OSs of olde. stability.. configurability... security.. these are all more important to me than saving a few notes. if you want to start supporting your vendor, that's great, support them by buying their product. don't whinge because they're cheaper, but not by enough for you. or change to linux if you think everybody should give you free software.

Re:Hint Apple... (1)

thaigan (197773) | more than 12 years ago | (#3998455)

Umm...Apple has always made most of their money on hardware. They could practically give this OS away and still make money if we all show our windows friends how cool it is. I'm particularly bothered by the price of Jaguar because I just bought a brand-new machine 6 weeks before MacWorld and I have to pay full price for 10.2. I'm not upset that they came out with a newer machine with a bigger screen than mine or that they lowered the price on mine, but I've been a paying customer for Mac OS X since the beta. Besides, most of Jaguar is bug fixes anyway. Sure there are some new features, but how many of us have or will use a writing tablet. Don't get me wrong, I want it. But it's not worth another $130 on top of the $1999 I just spent on the machine. If I was a windows convert and just buying a Mac for the first time, I really be disappointed.

Re:Hint Apple... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3998697)

of course if this was MS this would be called a whole new operating system and they would charge you $200 to upgrade. I don't think the price is unreasonable, I just think that it would benefit Apple more to make is accessible to everyone. Instead of 30+ nationwide stores you'd have 4 million+ desktops. Why not make sure these millions don't look as good as possible. Apples sell on word of mouth. The best word of mouth comes fron satisfied customers running up to date machines

Re:Hint Apple... (2)

quantaman (517394) | more than 12 years ago | (#3999487)

Selling OS X retail is purely for existing apple users. Anyone new won't care that their freinds version has 150 more features, they will get it for the look and feel which is the same as in 10.1.3. All charging less will do is allow a few more 10.1.x users to upgrade.

That being said I think it would be a fairly good idea for them to offer all versions of the OS for free. I can see it being a HUGE selling point when you tell someone that if you buy this computer you will always get the latest OS on it. Sure they will lose all their OS X sales revenues but they will sell more hardware which is the bulk of their revenue and will get great PR. Can you imagine how happy most windows users would be if their computer always had the latest and greate... nevermind :) version of windows on it? excluding the whole palladium... and DRM... and EULA's... and okay bad example:) Still i do believe that giving away the OS for free would be very good for apple.

the rebate was there (5, Informative)

kelly_hirano (145138) | more than 12 years ago | (#3995561)

the rebate was there, but according to macminute [macminute.com] :

"Customer response exceeded our wildest expectations so we're not continuing the rebate at this time," Ling Hong, an Amazon.com spokesperson told MacMinute. "But obviously all the pre-orders that we received during the time that the rebate offer was posted on our site will be honored." Hong said all orders placed up until 19:00 PT yesterday will be eligible.

Re:the rebate was there (3, Insightful)

Sentry21 (8183) | more than 12 years ago | (#3997219)

Basically what that quote means is 'we thought we'd try a stupid publicity stunt to get more people to come to our website and look around, but then we decided that maybe we shouldn't lose our shirts'.

Rule number one of marketing: let the suppliers do the rebates, unless you have a ton of stock that you NEED to get rid of, but don't want to just mark down. The only reason to ever sell for less than you buy at is amortization, depreciation, or cutting your losses. Selling pre-orders at less than cost is the mentality behind most dot-com businesses - bleed red ink, but make up for it in added services.

Dumb dumb.

--Dan

FUCK!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3995665)

i didnt order it yet

gold box anyone? (1)

diesel_jackass (534880) | more than 12 years ago | (#3995693)

not only that, but they took away my gold box!
i loved the excitement of checking that gold box once a day. (sure i never bought anything from it, but still...)

anyone know any hacks to get the gold box back?

Re:gold box anyone? (2, Informative)

crow (16139) | more than 12 years ago | (#3995753)

Mine randomly goes away at times and then comes back. No big deal. Sometimes they don't have extra-special offers for you. Half the time when they do, at least one is sold out by the time you get to it. I doubt they discontinued the program--it's a great way to unload the last few units of discontinued items.

Re:gold box anyone? (1)

diverman (55324) | more than 12 years ago | (#4002191)

And yet, Amazon feels this need to offer me a deal on a "Hello Kitty board game." I don't know HOW they came up with the idea that I might have ANY desire to buy such a thing, since I pretty much ONLY buy computer books from them. Great system they have there. heh.

-Alex

Re:gold box anyone? (2)

ceejayoz (567949) | more than 12 years ago | (#3995829)

meh... every gold box offer I ever got was for hardware... I don't need no stinking hardware!

Re:gold box anyone? (2)

diesel_jackass (534880) | more than 12 years ago | (#3996765)

i'm assuming that you mean hammers and tools and stuff. i kept getting this $130 rice cooker, it was pretty funny b/c they are like $35 in almost any store. i got the occaisional mp3 player, i almost bought 2 of them. the guy who works across from me has been getting good DVD's for cheap (memento - $10). lucky bastard. i think its because he has some AMZN stock or something.

Re:gold box anyone? (2)

ceejayoz (567949) | more than 12 years ago | (#4001589)

meh... I have AMZN stock too... I want DVD and MP3 player offers! I'm tired of $2000 circular saws and $250 screwdrivers that I don't want, can't afford, and don't need.

Why don't you just get a REAL operating system... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3995738)

...that is made by somebody who treats their customers right?

Microsoft has always provided reasonably-priced upgrades and free bug fixes! Isn't it about time that others follow Microsoft's lead?

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (4, Interesting)

chump daddy (594222) | more than 12 years ago | (#3996222)

apple also provide free bug fixes.

10.1.1
10.1.2
10.1.3
10.1.4
10.1.5

all free

plus software update... all free

10.2 you pay cos there's new features.

microsoft have windowsupdate same as software update. that's it. all versions between updates are chargeable.

arguably service packs are free versions, but 95 - 98 - 98 second edition - ME - XP... all cost money.

and more than OS-X upgrades too..

BeOS also charged. they only released a Personal Edition of BeOS when they got to version 5 to try and promote usage..

guess what? they went under..

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (5, Insightful)

ceejayoz (567949) | more than 12 years ago | (#3996292)

Apple's main mistake was calling it OS 10.2 - they should have learned from MS and called it OS 11, then no one would have complained.

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (2)

John Harrison (223649) | more than 12 years ago | (#3998277)

Actually if they had called it 10.5 most Apple users would have been happier to pay for it. Maybe now there is a more consevative way of numbering things such that point releases will always be something you pay for and the updates to those (10.2.1) will be free. In the past versions such as 7.1, 7.2 were free while 7.5 was not.

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (1)

kalidasa (577403) | more than 12 years ago | (#3999423)

The sensible thing is to have even-numbered point revisions be major revisions, odd-numbered be minor overhauls, and full digit revisions be new products.

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (2)

John Harrison (223649) | more than 12 years ago | (#4000244)

The sensible thing is to have even-numbered point revisions be major revisions, odd-numbered be minor overhauls, and full digit revisions be new products.

I agree. Now should someone who paid full price for 10.0 - 10.1.5 have to pay full price for 10.2?

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (1)

kalidasa (577403) | more than 12 years ago | (#4000522)

I agree. Now should someone who paid full price for 10.0 - 10.1.5 have to pay full price for 10.2?

I wouldn't structure it that way. I'd make OS X say $200, OS X 10.1 $30, OS X 10.2 $100, and anything in between free. Of course, the only difference between that and what Apple is doing is that they charged a lot less for OS X (of course, one could say that was a special promotional pricing to drive early adoption), somewhat more for 10.2, and somewhat less for 10.1.

I didn't pay for 10.1; I will (grudgingly) pay for 10.2.

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (2)

foobar104 (206452) | more than 12 years ago | (#4003449)

I think this is an issue with two very distinct sides. Apple, on the one hand, desperately needs and wants to keep its customers happy. Practically everything they've done for the past five years has been in an effort keep existing customers happy, or to make new customers. They don't have the luxury of being able gouge anybody.

But on the other hand, Apple has to make money. Second only to making money at all is the issue of maintaining margin. If Apple's net margin last quarter was 30% and this quarter it's 20%, Apple's stock will lose value even if their gross revenues increase. In other words, in order to stay healthy as a company, Apple needs to keep their revenues roughly in balance with their expenses.

Apple gave 10.1 away for free to any customer who could or would walk into an Apple store and pick up a CD. That was an amazing show of good will. It may have also cost Apple a fortune. I don't know, but I'm guessing it wasn't cheap.

Now they need people to pay for things they were expecting to get for free, like .mac and OS 10.2. Do you think they're doing this out of greed or spite? I doubt it. They're doing it to keep their net margin steady. They're doing it to stay healthy as a company.

Right now, if I were (say) Sun, I'd be thinking seriously about buying Apple. I have no idea if Sun has that kind of money, but I'm just saying I'd be thinking about it. Sun's server business is top-notch, but their desktop business is waning. Apple's desktop business kicks ass, and it's getting stronger every day. Apple's potential earnings for the next few years are a lot more than the company is currently worth on paper.

If Apple had a bad quarter or two, their stock price would slip and the sharks would start tasting blood in the water.

So they're keeping their gross margins high-- or trying to, anyway-- at the cost of some customer satisfaction. Apple has repeatedly been assessed in the market as having brand loyalty out the ears, so I'd imagine that few customers, if any, are going to switch to Dell or whatever just because Apple's charging $129 for Jaguar.

Net result: Apple's sales stay pretty much constant, every Mac owner from here to Tupelo, Mississippi buys a retail copy of Jaguar, and Apple keeps their net margins up thanks to the extra revenue. Apple's stock stays strong, and they get to keep doing what they're doing.

I'm no business or financial whiz; I may have some or all of my facts wrong. But if you assume that I'm at least mostly right, in the broad sense, then Apple's recent actions make all the sense in the world.

(Oh, speaking of sense, the whole "odd-number this, even-number that" thing is a dumb idea. Not quite as dumb as the idea that Linux 2.2 and 2.4 is okay to use but Linux 2.3 and 2.5 isn't, but that's a whole other ball of wax.)

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (2)

John Harrison (223649) | more than 12 years ago | (#4003631)

Apple gave 10.1 away for free to any customer who could or would walk into an Apple store and pick up a CD. That was an amazing show of good will. It may have also cost Apple a fortune. I don't know, but I'm guessing it wasn't cheap.

Though there was a widely known hack, weren't the 10.1 CDs meant to only function as upgrades? So you had to have purchased OS X for those "free" CDs to be useful.

I agree that everybody is starved for cash right now. That is one reason why I don't see Sun buying Apple. Can you imagine Steve giving up control again? I actually hear a lot of rumours about IBM buying Sun, but never from official sources.

Anyhow what percentage of Mac owners run Mac OS X. I recently saw that it was 20% and that the number was lower than Apple had hoped it would be. They need to keep that 20% happy for now so that they can evangelize the remaining 80%. If the 20% love OS X but are annoyed by the $129 price that will come through. If they were given a $40 discount as a show of appreciation for being forerunners they might be even more enthusiastic about the product.

I do agree that everybody wants to keep their numbers up. I also remember that Apple has billions in the bank. They can take a bad quarter or two.

What they really need to drive revenue is to come out with systems that are faster. They have really been stalled chip-wise. The "MHz Myth" campaign won't do much in a few months when Intel has a 3GHz P4 out. If Motorola isn't doing the job then maybe it is time for them to go with IBM.

The iMac is a great product for the home user, but all the companies buying Macs would love to see some more horsepower. As soon as all the apps people need are running on OS X companies are going to look at upgrading their workstations and wonder why Apple has stalled so badly speed wise. This is going to be a real opportunity for revenue that might be missed.

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (2)

foobar104 (206452) | more than 12 years ago | (#4003672)

I do agree that everybody wants to keep their numbers up. I also remember that Apple has billions in the bank. They can take a bad quarter or two.

Did you miss the part of my post where I talked about net margin versus gross revenue? ;-) I mean no disrespect. I'm just sarcastically making the point that a couple of bad quarters would be bad for Apple in more and bigger ways than just affecting their cash-on-hand.

On the performance issue, I work with media production companies and media service providers. Post houses, service bureaus, studios, that kind of thing. They're very serious and very loyal Mac users, all. And you know what? They're not complaining about the speed of the workstations Apple is selling. They could, and you'd expect that they would in a heartbeat, but they're simply not. Instead, they want more and better OS X versions of their applications. Adobe has done well with Photoshop and After Effects for OS X, but they're not good enough yet. There are still too many inefficiencies and quirks. Of course, some of these are out of the vendors' hands; Apple has to fix them in the Carbon libraries directly. I wonder how much Jaguar has addressed these things?

My point is that Apple's doing the right thing. They're letting the hardware line grow gradually, so customers get a decent depreciation time on their investment. The Mac you buy today loses half its value in about twelve months. If Apple were to accelerate the pace of new system development, that time would dwindle to six months or even less. In PC-land, on the other hand, you're looking at about a 4 month cycle. That makes it really hard to justify going out and spending $4,000 on a new workstation, given that it's going to lose $2,000 in value before the leaves start to turn.

Buying a Mac is easier to justify, because I know (unless I buy right before a product cycle, say now) that the workstation I buy today will hold its value for 8 to 12 months, easy. This is a good thing, both for Apple and for customers.

Apple's doing it right. Accelerate development on the OS, and keep development of the hardware at a pace fast enough to satisfy actual customer demand, but no faster.

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (1)

tuxedobob (582913) | more than 12 years ago | (#4003840)

Buying a Mac is easier to justify, because I know (unless I buy right before a product cycle, say now) that the workstation I buy today will hold its value for 8 to 12 months, easy. This is a good thing, both for Apple and for customers.

Agreed. I have a Dual 450 from fall 2000 (21 months?) and I'd say it's still worth the money. Granted, I've upgraded the RAM twice and added a second hard drive. (Wouldn't that lock out XP, or is that when I replace the vid card in a few months?) It still doesn't seem sluggish, and I don't see any issues with graphics and such, even without Quartz Extreme. The iBook from the same time should probably become a Powerbook G4, but them things is luxury laptops.

(Side note: a PC friend of mine now has nothing to complain about regarding OS X, now that the graphics won't "suck up the entire CPU". Not that I ever noticed it doing that.)

Hmmm, maybe the reason Apple has to charge for software nowadays is that their hardware lasts for so long.

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (2)

foobar104 (206452) | more than 12 years ago | (#4004589)

Agreed. I have a Dual 450 from fall 2000 (21 months?) and I'd say it's still worth the money.

I've been in the market for just such a machine. I consider my Mac to be I/O bound, not CPU bound, but I really like the added interactivity you get from having that second CPU in there. I wish Apple would sell a new low-end dual-CPU system, say a dual 800 MHz or something, instead of just restricting the dual-CPU configuration to the fastest and most expensive CPUs.

That said, I'd offer you $700 for your G4 right now. ;-) It's nowhere near the purchase price, I'm sure, but after all your machine is nearly two years old. Getting 1/3 of the price you paid for it after two years would be pretty good, I think.

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (1)

tuxedobob (582913) | more than 12 years ago | (#4006909)

That said, I'd offer you $700 for your G4 right now. ;-) It's nowhere near the purchase price, I'm sure, but after all your machine is nearly two years old. Getting 1/3 of the price you paid for it after two years would be pretty good, I think.

That's all well and good, but I don't have the $2000 to add to it to buy the system I'd want to replace it with. :-) Since I'm still not yet in the market to sell, I'd suggest you check out the Dual G4 listings [ebay.com] on eBay. Several of them are currently at about that price point. All told, I'd say that a fair offer for my system, sans monitor, of course.

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (2)

John Harrison (223649) | more than 12 years ago | (#4004546)

They're letting the hardware line grow gradually, so customers get a decent depreciation time on their investment.

I really doubt that they are keeping hardware slow on purpose. What evidence is there of that? If you think that they are not releasing the fastest hardware they can while maintaining their pricepoints. I agree that Macs depreciate more slowly than PCs, but that is due to a number of factors other than the fact the they aren't coming out with new hardware as quickly as might be expected.

Every company is looking for performance breakthroughs, even if their current customers are happy with current performance. Obviously if you only have 5% market share there are some people out there that would buy your product if it had better performance.

Why don't you just get a REAL operating system... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3996446)

...that charges a reasonable price for upgrades?

The $200 cost to "upgrade" from OS 10.1 to 10.2 is disgraceful! (Especially when compared to Microsoft's more than generous offers to its customers.)

Maybe Mac users need to learn to expect more.

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (2)

BitGeek (19506) | more than 12 years ago | (#3997711)



$200? Why did you pull that number out of your ass?

You think we don't ALL know that Jaguar is only $129, and widely going to be discounted?

Sheesh.

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3997159)

No they are not free. I paid $129.00 for OS X version 10.1 from Apple two months ago. Now I am expected to pay another $129.00 to get Jaguar? I think I will wait for 10.3.

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3998618)

Just consider it a moron tax and be thankfull we allow idiots like you to breed.

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (3, Insightful)

ellem (147712) | more than 12 years ago | (#3998989)

You idiot.

10.1.1..5 were fixes.
And what you think 10.2 is a whole new OS?

No, you dimwit! It is another fix.

I'll give them 20USD but that's all it is worth.

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3999329)

You think NT4, Win2k, and XP are whole new OSs?

No you dimwit, they are upgrades not bugfixes or new OSs.

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (1)

ellem (147712) | more than 12 years ago | (#4001606)

there is a very large difference in code from NT to W2K, first of all, secondly MS did not charge anyone for their service cracks (ooh I mean packs)

I'll give you 2000->XP (which seems like a step backward to me anyway.) The thing of it is the only real advantage from 10.1 --> 10.2 is that Apple fixed Finder.

Sorry 130USD for fixing your own problems is bullshit.

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4003394)

Pfft. As if there's much of a difference between Win98 and Win98SE besides bug fixes.

Hell, they even released a "Customer Service Pack" for 98 that incorporated all the fixes in 98SE for 98 users (available via Windows Update) - well over a year after 98SE shipped, I might add.

The reality of the matter is there aren't many bugs left in 10.1.5, what you're paying $130 for is new features - and yes, if it runs faster, that IS a feature, not a bug fix.

Christ, Microsoft users have been used to each successive revision to the OS getting more bloated and slower for almost 7 years now. When Apple sells two releases in a row where applications run FASTER due to hard work on their part, suddenly they're evil.

I happen to agree that 10.2 should be named 10.5. It fits perfectly with a x.5 release. The problem is Mac OS XI doesn't have quite the ring, hence Apple isn't in a hurry to get there.

Yet if they named it 10.5, half the people complaining would be crowing about how great it is. The other half would still be complaining, though - but since they don't own a Mac, or don't run X, or are simply a Microsoft employee, they should never have complained in the first place.

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (1)

ellem (147712) | more than 12 years ago | (#4004343)

1 -- MS has UPGRADE PRICING

2 -- I don't care how Apple #s their effing OS. The fact of the matter is that I started with OS X in beta (like a lot of other people) and I have been through each successive piece since. Not all that much has changed. It has gotten somewhat faster.

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (2)

TRACK-YOUR-POSITION (553878) | more than 12 years ago | (#4027956)

Ah, but does this mean no more bug fixes for the 10.1.x series?

Re:Why don't you just get a REAL operating system. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3996846)

apple bug fixes are FREE. thier OS upgrades are cheaper than M$ who charges $280 you dipshit.

Apple Pudge Fackers (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3995761)

Dear Apple,

I ama homosexual. I boughtan Apple computer because of its well earned reputation for being "the" gay computer. Since I have become an Apple owner, I have been exposed to a whole new world of gay friends. It is really a pleasure to meet and compute with other homos such as myself. I plan on using my new Apple computer as a way to entice and recruit young schoolboys into the homosexual lifestyle; it would be so helpful if you could produce more software which would appeal to young boys. Thanks in advance.

with much gayness,

Father Randy "Pudge" O'Day, S.J.

Re:Apple Pudge Fackers (4, Insightful)

BitGeek (19506) | more than 12 years ago | (#3997726)



Funny, I'd love to hang out with a bunch of gay apple users. Most of the gay people I know use macs-- they are far too picky about things being stupidly done and so they go for superiority.

what's the big deal? You think anyone is going to feel bad because you said apple users are gay? Sheesh.... it only tells us that you're insecure about the size of your weenie.

Who cares who's gay and who isn't... anyone worthy posting on slashdot doesn't.

Re:Apple Pudge Fackers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3999439)

I don't think Apple users are the "pudge fackers" anyway. Seems to me like it's Windows users who are constantly getting it up the . . .

Re:Apple Pudge Fackers (1)

tuxedobob (582913) | more than 12 years ago | (#4003854)

Oh, that one again? Yeah, that's been showing up in every Apple post. That's the reason I switched to a threshold of 1, actually.

Hmmmm..... switched..... Somebody spoof that.

www.aquafiles.com has the same $50 rebate! (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3995815)

check it out.....maybe other sites have this as well?

That is the Amazon coupon, which is no good now.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4000155)

You need to have made the purchase by 19:00 PST on July 31, 2002. Just having the coupon doens't help you at all. You NEED to have bought it prior to cancelling of the rebate!!

I hope Apple is watching this... (1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3995882)

This pretty much shows two things:

a) Everybody wants Jaguar
b) Nobody wants to pay Apple's criminally high price

Apple should stop being buttheads. They really are pushing it lately. I only use Macs because Apple's not scummy like Microsoft. That was before. Now they're even MORE scummy than Microsoft. I'm almost hoping the DoJ takes a crack at Apple. What a bunch of crooks.

And I'm not trolling, I've just been constantly pissed off at Apple for about a month. They suck and I hate that I love them so much.

Zoober

Re:I hope Apple is watching this... (1, Troll)

chump daddy (594222) | more than 12 years ago | (#3996261)

then change to linux you cheap wanker.

OS-X is cheaper than windows. pull your head out of your arse.

i'm sick of losers who insist on everything being free. once you fuckwads come out of school and realise there's a real world, you might be shocked.

Re:I hope Apple is watching this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3996832)

no shit, the linux kids around here are practically comminists. they want every thing free, well fine. come here and cut my grass and paint my house, and by the way, im not paying you shit....

Re:I hope Apple is watching this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3996470)

Excuse me, but does your mac do any less then it did before 10.2 was an option? No? Then why do you expect more functionality for free? It's not like they're taking something away from you by releasing 10.2 and expecting you to pay. Same goes for windows recently. Windows 98 doesn't do any less then it did when I bought it, so I don't expect microsoft to give me 2000 or XP for free. I also don't think that the features in 2000 or XP are worth over $100, so I continue to use 98 when I want to do things I cant do in linux. Office is another story, because if you don't upgrade you cant open documents you recieve anymore, and the individual copy license fee is totally outrageous. Back on topic, though, Where do you get off expecting Apple to give you 10.2 for free.

Besides, if you think the price is too high, but you are willing to pay, you can wait a few months until the price comes down. If you really think you're entitled to a free copy of 10.2, then you're probably going to warez it anyway, and you should get over yourself and just go do it.

Re:I hope Apple is watching this... (2)

BitGeek (19506) | more than 12 years ago | (#3997701)



How is charging about half what microsoft charges for an update, and giving you a free one for every one you have to buy (apple only charges every other update) "criminal"? And worse than microsoft?

Hey, we remember getting system 4 and 5 and 6 for free, but Apple has a different business model now.

Think of it this way-- you're really paying for the iApps but getting the OS for free.

Ok?

I really don't see how buying an os upgrade every other year is such a big deal. And it costs %60 of what you'd be paying to microsoft (Really even less when you factor in all the hassle and add-on packs MS sells.)

Re:I hope Apple is watching this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3999250)

No, you PAY for the iApps, with .mac, and you PAY for the OS. And you PAY for the hardware, more than you would for x86 hardware of greater value, and you PAY more for the same apps Windows users get. And you PAY shipping since you have to order them all online, since no stores carry mac stuff. And Apple's OS X performance is sluggish on most computers, which is why people want Jaguar. They want what they were promised in the beginning. A useable system. We NEED Quartz Extreme, and that is why 99% of people want Jaguar. Apple knows we all need it, so they took this chance to charge for it and rake in the green. Amazon offered a discount, and found that EVERYONE who would buy Jaguar would buy it from them. We're all pissed off at Apple's high pricing, but we need Quartz Extreme. Just that. Nothing else in Jaguar matters to me. God knows I'm gonna find a way to uninstall iChat the minute I get Jaguar loaded. I don't want a chat program, don't force one on me, or build it into my OS, slowing down my work apps!

But that's not what's pissing him off. Apple is acting like Microsoft, the price is just the tip of the iceberg. I don't know about Zoober, but personally I don't mind paying more for Mac stuff, but I want a good product from a good company. The product is fine, but he's right, Apple is getting a mite zealous with its Cease and Desist orders, shutting down themes, killing mods for the iPod, stealing Watson (thus crippling a third-party mac vendor), etc. Apple sure does have "a different business model now". They're copying Microsoft's one true innovation - their legal department's BS tactics and total lack of respect for the user base. I was hoping with OS X and their new use of open source code that Apple would get MORE OPEN and not MORE CLOSED. But they're getting more and more defensive and controlling every day. They're losing all the things that made them great in the first place. So many of my friends who are artists and teachers in their 40's and 50's who have always used macs are turning their back on Apple because "Apple's not Apple any more". Apple's acting like a litigious heartless corporation, not a cool group of people who want to change the world. And they are falling for the BS of putting the shareholders before the customers, which works in the short term, but in the long term, customers are what pay the bills. Shareholders invest only to get money OUT of the company. And when there's no money to be had, they're gone.

And I don't want to get hooked on subscriptionware. We have it at work for a CAD program, and it's a pain in the ass. Give me good old outright ownership any day of the week.

I agree with Zoober. Apple needs to wake up and become decent people again. That's why I have always supported them, not because their GUI is better. I supported them when their GUI was worse, because they "Thought Different". Now I just wish they would THINK.

Matt

Re:I hope Apple is watching this... (1, Insightful)

Melantha_Bacchae (232402) | more than 12 years ago | (#4000739)

An AC (Matt) wrote:

> No, you PAY for the iApps,

Nope, usually free with new hardware, or free downloads. Occasionally Apple has charged for them, but even then it is less than $50.

> with .mac,

The money you pay for .mac goes for the 100mb of web space, backup and antivirus software, and web services. I know one company, Hostway, that will charge you more a month ($8.95/mo Hostway, vs. Apple's $8.33/mo) for a mere 5mb of web space.

> and you PAY for the OS.

Of course you pay for an OS that took millions of dollars to develope and millions more to upgrade. Especially with an OS that is far beyond Microsoft's next 2-5 years of vaporware. Then again, you pay for a lot of things of value, especially when they are in a store in a box with a price tag on it. That even goes for boxed sets of Linux OS and software.

> And you PAY for the hardware,

Um, yeah. Name one place that gives you free computers.

> more than you would for x86 hardware of greater
> value,

That is seriously debatable. X86 hardware is of far lesser quality. I don't care if they put a 15 gigahertz sticker on a PC, if my G4 800 megahertz iMac out runs it, it is still slower. Apple's industrial design is so much better that it is a comparison between fresh Apples and fresh cow pies.

The problem stems from one source: Microsoft. Every year, Microsoft sets the specs for the PC world. Aside from the color of the case (and warps in its shape), the individual makers have little to no leeway in innovating the hardware. Fortunately, Microsoft does have one source of innovation: copying Apple. ;)

> and you PAY more for the same apps Windows users
> get.

Get what? Get for free?!? I would hardly dignify with the term "application" the crap that Microsoft bundles with Windows and forces down the user's throat.

If you mean apps the Windows user pays for, most applications are the same price regardless of platform.

There is one exception: Microsoft's Office X is more expensive than Office XP Standard. Feel free to complain about that one: to Microsoft.

> And you PAY shipping since you have to order
> them all online, since no stores carry mac
> stuff.

That is so not true. Here in St. Louis Missouri (in the midwest US) you can at least get boxed versions of OS X at CompUSA. We have a Mac Store, which if you can get a sales person who is actually interested in selling something, you can actually buy some stuff there. Next month we should be getting our own Apple Store (woo hoo!).

I've never had to resort to mail order for an Apple OS upgrade. In fact I plan to get Jaguar at a local store to thank them for carrying Mac stuff.

> And Apple's OS X performance is sluggish on most
> computers,

It might be a wee bit on my older Macs, but I don't really notice it on my G4 iMac.

> which is why people want Jaguar. They want what
> they were promised in the beginning. A useable
> system.

Sorry, but I've had a beautiful, usable system since March 24, 2001. I've had a great system since 10.1 came out. On August 24th, I plan to have the most advanced system on the planet. Where have you been?

> We NEED Quartz Extreme, and that is why 99% of
> people want Jaguar. Apple knows we all need it,
> so they took this chance to charge for it and
> rake in the green.

Quartz Extreme is a new technology that takes advantage of a new generation of video hardware. OS X.1.x is about as fast as the older generation of hardware can get. Apple is not ripping you off here. There is no conspiracy or deep exploitation plot going on here. Just a little something called "a new idea to make OS X better".

Besides I imagine more than 1% of those buying Jaguar will be buying it for all the other new and revolutionary technologies it contains.

> Amazon offered a discount, and found that
> EVERYONE who would buy Jaguar would buy it from
> them.

Not everyone. Certainly not me:

1) I've been burned too many times trying to preorder stuff from Amazon.

2) I'd rather pay full price and reward Apple for a good job.

3) I'd also rather buy local to thank my local retailers. If you don't support them, they go bye-bye.

> We're all pissed off at Apple's high pricing,
> but we need Quartz Extreme. Just that. Nothing
> else in Jaguar matters to me.

Well, that is your loss, as Jaguar has a lot to offer.

Have you checked to make sure your hardware even supports Quartz Extreme?

> God knows I'm gonna find a way to uninstall
> iChat the minute I get Jaguar loaded. I don't
> want a chat program, don't force one on me, or
> build it into my OS, slowing down my work apps!

Now you are confusing Apple with Microsoft. iApps are easy to uninstall, and the OS doesn't depend on their presence. I don't use iPhoto (don't need it with Photoshop 7) either.

> stealing Watson (thus crippling a third-party
> mac vendor), etc.

Sherlock 3 probably went into development the moment Sherlock 2 was released. It may have even been on the drawing board before Sherlock 2 came out. It is my understanding Watson was developed after Sherlock 2's release, copied Sherlock's GUI, derived from Sherlock's name, and used libraries and functionality Sherlock provided on the back end. If that is true, what we have here is an unfortunate coincedence of parallel development , with Watson dependant on Sherlock from the start. Since Watson's reason for existence is to fill in on Sherlock's feature set, their next version should be to see what Sherlock 3 left out, and provide the same sort of complement they provided for Sherlock 2.

> They're copying Microsoft's one true innovation
> - their legal department's BS tactics and total
> lack of respect for the user base.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see that. You are talking about a company that put their people to work overtime, on a weekend, to fix a bad bug in a *free* iApp. Then they offered to pay to have the damage the bug caused fixed. That is how it *should* be, how Microsoft *never* does it.

Yes, their legal department does make a pain of itself. But it frequently is because they have to defend their trademarks, or risk loosing their very valuable brand identity. Apple doesn't make the laws in the US, but it does have to follow them, whether it likes them or not.

Look at your OS X screen. Do you have files on your desktop? Does a menu appear when you click the Apple logo? Those things would be impossible if Apple didn't listen to its customers.

> And they are falling for the BS of putting the
> shareholders before the customers, which works
> in the short term, but in the long term,
> customers are what pay the bills.

Every company with shareholders has a legal obligation to those shareholders in the US. The shareholders own the company, after all. But no company can fulfill that obligation that ignores its customers. I don't know how Apple does in regards to the shareholders (I don't own stock at the moment, though I've been thinking about buying), but as a customer I am very satisfied and happy.

Long term vs. short term: Apple is and has been for the past few years playing for the long term. Every version of OS X, every store opening, every hardware or software advance has been a building block for the future. Apple is very carefully getting itself in position. When the economy surges upward, Apple is going to surge with it. Poor Microsoft won't even know what hit them. ;)

> And I don't want to get hooked on
> subscriptionware. We have it at work for a CAD
> program, and it's a pain in the ass. Give me
> good old outright ownership any day of the week.

Fine. Buy an XServe, get a T1 line, get a copy of Web Objects, and set up your own web server with email and the works. You've got outright ownership for a few measly grand (except the T1 line, a monthly charge you probably can't afford). Me, I'd rather pay $8.33 a month, and let Apple worry about supporting the server and paying to hook it up to the internet.

> Apple needs to wake up and become decent people
> again.

I think they are decent now. And Apple is night and day different from Microsoft.

On December 14, 1996, Mothra resurrected a charred Apple sapling ("Mosura" 1996).
On December 14, 2001, Mothra returned to see its fruit ("Gojira, Mosura, Kingu Ghidora: Daikaiju Soukougeki").
OS X: the Apple of Mothra's Aqua eye.

Re:I hope Apple is watching this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4005197)

Thank you for your kind comments. This confirms what I always thought, that we're perfect. I think I'll raise the price on .mac, since I see by your post that I've got loyal zealots like you completely fooled and willing to pay whatever I say is fair. And forget OS9, I think new Macs won't be allowed to boot into any OS before Mac OS X 10.2. Hmmm....You're right, the market should never be allowed to decide what's right or wrong. All those people who are upset at me might make me rethink my strategies, or God forbid, do what the customers want once in a while. Thanks for never complaining about any of the evil things I do. Thanks for defending my every move, like I am a perfect glorious god come down to earth. Especially thanks for not being honest with yourself or holding me to task for the things I screw up on, or putting pressure on me to improve my product beyond what I feel is necessary. Thanks for not forcing me to grow or change. Thanks for realizing that the best Mac user, the TRUE Mac lover, just shuts up and takes it. The true Mac lover eats whatever I put in front of them without complaint. I am in control. You're not. And don't try to change me, because I'll shut you down or ignore you totally. It makes me feel good to know I'm perfect. Thanks to you, I'll stop listening to those whining welfare scums who try to change me for the better, because I'm already as good as can be, as are my wonderous lifegiving products. From now on, I'll send all their snotty beggin little emails straight to /dev/null.

Constructive criticism, in fact ANY criticism, is for losers. No criticism is necessary for Apple because no improvement is necessary! I'm sending you a new pair of Steve colored glasses with which to view the world. Enjoy the view.

Thanks for reaffirming what I already knew about Mac users,

Steve Jobs,
King of Earth

p.s. You know that Bill Gates is a GOOD FRIEND of mine, don't you? Read the biographies of me. Me and Bill are business partners, and are on the same page - right now he's teaching me to legally "embrace and extend" these open source fools into oblivion. You'll like that, won't you, faithful little muffin? So don't dis Bill or I'll send you a Cease and Desist. I've got a stack of them right here, all it needs is a name and date.

Re:I hope Apple is watching this... (1)

c13v3rm0nk3y (189767) | more than 12 years ago | (#4010376)

Most of the noise over the Jaguar upgrade price seems to be folks who have just paid for the full version with a new system. Most of us don't mind paying something, but $199 (Canadian dollars, no education discount, AFAICT [email if you know different]) is too much just 4 months after buying a full copy of 10.1.

Yes, I consider the $6K I spent on a new G4 package, and the OS X license it came with a "full purchase" of OS X 10.1.x. How is it not?

Sorry, but that is just how I feel. I would gladly pay something, but not full price. It's all in the presentation, isn't it?

Then again, if the "full price" was $299, and apple offered it $199, maybe it wouldn't sting so bad.

The point is that it might make more business sense to offer some kind of tiered pricing, especially given the "switch" compaign. I love my new Mac. Apple should be trying to encourage that warm and fuzzy feeling us UNIX geeks get with OS X.

Maybe the price is fair, and we are all being unreasonable. This doesn't change the fact that Apple could have presented the price in a better light to ease the sticker shock. Somebody fsck'd up.

In the end, only the totally honest will be the ones to pay full price. A good number of otherwise honest folk will find other ways to create their own discount. In this case, they will harangue Amazon. Others will find more creative ways. It doesn't have to be this way.

Re:I hope Apple is watching this... (2)

TRACK-YOUR-POSITION (553878) | more than 12 years ago | (#4027939)

I guess the difference is, with MS I'm still holding on to W2k because XP frightens me, but with Apple I actually want Jaguar. ;)

Nope no mistake. (2)

red5 (51324) | more than 12 years ago | (#3996115)

I think maybe it was a mistake; the rebate form I saw originally never had Mac OS X 10.2 on it.

Hey puge! Look again. I have a backup of the rebateform here [mac.com] .

Re:Nope no mistake. (1)

pudge (3605) | more than 12 years ago | (#3996552)

Yeah, I've now seen copies that do have the rebate for 10.2. The one I saw previously did not.

Re:Nope no mistake. (1)

red5 (51324) | more than 12 years ago | (#3997362)

Hope you didn't get flamed too hard for that. :)

Found another rebate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3996186)

I found my rebate on Kazaa. :-) Thanks zxcmnbkjs@KaZaA!!

Re:Found another rebate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3997215)

But mac owners are rich, surely they can afford it.

Kazaa it don't ask no questions. Heh.

Fucking Steve Jobs (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3996297)

Jobs is fucking determined to alienate every single mac user, isn't he? Charging for bug fixes. 10.0 couldn't play DVD's, burn cds. New 10.2 won't support "old" graphics cards made six months ago. No SCSI support. Pay $100 a year for a god damned EMAIL ADDRESS that they selectively filter (macslash.org lost their domain because of Apple). He won't stop until every single Mac user has gone to windows?

Instead of 'switch' the new campaign should be called 'bait and switch'

Re:Fucking Steve Jobs (3, Informative)

Triv (181010) | more than 12 years ago | (#3996482)

The aquafiles rebate is for Amazon. Nice try tho. :)

Triv

Re:Fucking Steve Jobs (1)

GutBomb (541585) | more than 12 years ago | (#3997587)

New 10.2 won't support "old" graphics cards made six months ago.
Yes it will. it just does not enable the "quartz extreme" feature and it falls back on the default quartz

No SCSI support.
There is SCSI support, just install a SCSI card. the machines do not come default with SCSI but if you install your own card it works fine.

macslash.org lost their domain because of Apple
Not true. they lost thier domain because some squatter got ahold of it when they forgot to renew it

Re:Fucking Steve Jobs (1)

tuxedobob (582913) | more than 12 years ago | (#4003849)

New 10.2 won't support "old" graphics cards made six months ago.
Yes it will. it just does not enable the "quartz extreme" feature and it falls back on the default quartz

Actually, that's not true. Quartz Extreme only requires 16MB on the vid card. The low-end stock vid card in my 2-year old G4 has 16MB. Last generation's Powerbooks had 16MB, I believe, and I'm pretty sure that's also true for the white iBooks with the TiBook form factor. Quartz Extreme, never mind 10.2, will be supporting many "6-month old" graphics cards.

Re:Fucking Steve Jobs (2)

BitGeek (19506) | more than 12 years ago | (#3997721)



Funny, I have an 18 month old laptop that Quartz Extreme supports. how is that?

Sheesh.

And you want SCSI? Ok, fine, its supported under OS X natively. My 9500 works just fine (running OS X)

Re:Fucking Steve Jobs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3998642)

Instead of Anonymous Coward /. should call it Anonymous Fucking Moron.

Apple has spoiled the diehard Mac crowd... (4, Insightful)

MalleusEBHC (597600) | more than 12 years ago | (#3997253)

and somewhat shot itself in the foot by continuously spoiling the Mac faithful for years. Mac users have gotten great free products (iTunes, iTools, etc.) that can be and are flaunted in the faces of Windows users. But after so much of this, Apple has created a situation where many of the diehard Mac users no longer realize that Apple is a company that is trying to make a profit, just like other companies out there such as *gasp* Microsoft. That means that when they release new products, especially quality ones such as Jaguar, they will most likely charge for them. If they offer something sweet for free like iPhoto, the Mac community should be happy but not unfairly raise expectations for more free products. If it really bothers people to be paying for a point release (which as many have pointed out would be a whole new OS by Redmond's standards), think of it as buying a suite of new applications and features: iChat, Sherlock 3, Quartz Extreme, etc.

Re:Apple has spoiled the diehard Mac crowd... (2)

BitGeek (19506) | more than 12 years ago | (#3997707)



Mod the parent up, not down. nobody has expressed this quite this way before, and its insightful.

Re:Apple has spoiled the diehard Mac crowd... (2, Insightful)

thaigan (197773) | more than 12 years ago | (#3998562)

iChat is an Apple GUI on AOL Instant Messenger...Can't be worth more than $10 - $20 bucks
Sherlock 3 is Apple's absorption of the most excellent Watson...$30(includes lifetime updates)
Quartz Extreme...I'd hardly call this an application from the user standpoint. This is Apple making up for opting for stability over performance in the pre-10.2 releases. This is a bug fix; I'm very happy for it, but it's still a bug fix.

It's completely appropriate to charge 130 bucks for this for anyone that didn't pay for the 10.1 release. I just spent $1999 on a new iMac 7 weeks ago. I called Apple to ask them what good my Software Coupons are and they told me they are there to remind me to upgrade now and then. Now I fondly remember when those coupons were there to get you the next release of the OS. So now, just two months after dropping a bundle, I have to shell out $130 just to keep up. There should be a reasonable upgrade price for owners of 10.1.

Re:Apple has spoiled the diehard Mac crowd... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4002982)

In a sense, you're focusing on this page [apple.com] and not looking at this one [apple.com] . There's way more than what you're thinking 10.2 has.

I don't think so. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3997351)

Last I heard under the Consumer Protection Acts of virtually all states there was no means of "pulling an announced rebate."

Amazon's own terms of agreement indicate a rebate is valid as long as it's posted.

Check the link provided. It's still "posted."

They still running the same scam for a number of other products. The coupon still reads the same.

How are they going to "pull the rebate."

They aren't if anyone's in the mood to try them. I am. I ordered another box of Jaguar the day after the rebate "was pulled."

Amazon should know better having had there tit in similar ringers in the past (if you'll pardon the expression). :)

Re:I don't think so. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3998594)

Man are you dumb. Maybe you should read the form at the other end of the link before ponying $120 up. They can pull the rebate by pulling the ad. They still have to honor old orders but get all of the $120 you stupidly gave them after they pulled the ad.

Stupid, stupid rat creatures.

For only $70 more.... (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3997386)

Sign up for the Apple Developer Connection mailing. You'll get OS 10.2 plus a year's worth of developer tools, SDKs, and updates.

Re:For only $70 more.... (1)

apuku (576996) | more than 12 years ago | (#3999008)

Or sign up for the Select ADC membership. It costs you $500, but you can also get software seeds (if you sign the NDA). And, after the first year, you get a hardware discount that typically pays for the membership (assuming you use it). Oh, and you get 5 OS licenses as long as you're use them for developing, testing, etc. There are some other benefits, too, (that I've never used). http://developer.apple.com/membership/select.html

Re:For only $70 more.... (1)

diverman (55324) | more than 12 years ago | (#4002289)

Ummm... what's this $70 thing? The Developer Tools, SDK's, etc never cost me anything. I just signed up for the free Developer Connection. I didn't get OS 10 for it though. A link would be handy/helpful.

But I don't know why I'd pay $70 more if there was no reason to.

-Alex

The mac users are bending over again... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3997432)

oh wait.. you guys are used to that.

10.2 for new users (1)

Giant Killer (33130) | more than 12 years ago | (#3998427)

well, im making the switch sometime this month. im gonna pick up a stacked out powerbook, and am looking forward to finally having an operating system that i really like.

but the specs page for the powerbook says it is shipping with OS 10.1. will i have to pay the full $120 for the upgrade to 10.2?

Re:10.2 for new users (1)

arloguthrie (318071) | more than 12 years ago | (#3998809)

Anyone who buys a Mac that ships with 10.1 before October 31 can get Jaguar for $19.95.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/

Re:10.2 for new users (1)

WCityMike (579094) | more than 12 years ago | (#3999317)

No, as long as you purchase 10.2 before October 31, it will only cost you $19.95. Look at their page describing the Mac OS X Up-To-Date program [apple.com] . If you are willing to delay your purchase by perhaps one to two months (i.e. September or October), they will probably begin shipping it with 10.2 preloaded.

Re:10.2 for new users (1)

Giant Killer (33130) | more than 12 years ago | (#3999588)

thanks for the response, guys. thats all i needed to know. :)

im getting the powerbook at a big discount through a friend who works for apple. he is coming back to school at the end of this month, so i wont be waiting any longer than that.

you guys are most helpful.

Re:10.2 for new users (1)

diverman (55324) | more than 12 years ago | (#4002305)

Just wait. It should be shipping with 10.2 in a couple weeks. Unless you REALLY want your toy, I'd wait. You will still have to wait for "assembly" and shipping anyway.

-Alex

The rebate was called "School of Rebates" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3998460)

The point is: where did Amazon intend to get the money for these rebates?

The "School of Rebates" promotion never comes out and says you have to be a student but it implies that these are "back to school" discounts for people enrolled in schools.

The coupon never requires proof of enrollment and many manufacturers don't care [Sam's and Costco have been reported to sell the educatioanl versions of MS software and not ask for proof].

Apple does require proof of enrollment.

Amazon may have been reselling educational versions in what is an accepted manner for most companies and run afoul of Apple enforcing their policies.

If they were reselling educational copies, Amazon was tacking an extra $10 for shipping & handling and processing the rebate into the price. Nice if you don't really qualify but direct from Apple is a little cheaper for real students and educators.

I wonder what happens if you order from this link? (5, Informative)

dpbsmith (263124) | more than 12 years ago | (#3999465)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail /-/software/B00006F7S2/rebates/02/002-1732681-4549 637

As of five minutes ago...

This link DOES show a rebate coupon, the coupon DOES list "Mac OS X 10.2: Jaguar," and the coupon DOES say it is good for purchases made between 7/29/02 and 09/03/02.

Re:I wonder what happens if you order from this li (2)

dpbsmith (263124) | more than 12 years ago | (#3999666)

Sorry, that URL got mangled... either remove two internal spaces from it, or try this [amazon.com]

No Rebate, No OS9 with 10.2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4000027)

Not only is the rebate cancelled, but it looks like for that $129 you don't get a set of OS9 disks with 10.2 (in the attempt to kill off OS9 development). So that'll probably set you back another $100 for 9 if you need to use something that runs in Classic (which is just about EVERYTHING).

Re:No Rebate, No OS9 with 10.2 (1)

WCityMike (579094) | more than 12 years ago | (#4001690)

I'm sorry, but I'm a bit confused. How is this a problem? People who are buying a new computer presumably have OS 9 pre-installed; everyone else coming to Jaguar will have an OS 9 CD in some form or another, whether it's their original system CD, or the one that was bundled with OS 10.0.x, or the one that was bundled with 10.1.x. If I'm mistaken, please enlighten me (and I don't mean that sarcastically, but honestly).

Re:No Rebate, No OS9 with 10.2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4002706)

I have the borg-ified OS8.6 which came with my G4/500. I didn't get OS9 because Microsoft Office didn't work with it, and I held off on OSX because it was so slow and couldn't play DVD's. Now I can't get 10.2 because I don't have an OS9 to install with it. Guess I'm screwed. Thanks apple.

Aren't they obligated to honor the rebate? (1)

felicity (870) | more than 12 years ago | (#4000205)

The rebate form is still available from Amazon (see another product listed in the rebate form such as PartitionMagic [amazon.com] ) listing Jaguar. Unless they post or otherwise make it known to those who have ordered/who are ordering, that the rebate is no longer valid (which according to the Mac OS X 10.2 [amazon.com] page hasn't happened), they need to honor it. Otherwise how is it different than bait-and-switch?

I ordered it from them pre 1900PDT on 7/31, so according to the article it'll still be honored. If it's not though, I will dispute the charge through my credit card company since it's clearly a rebate for which I qualify, and I have the document to prove it.

I don't know the legalities involved, but I assume that they're ok if they announce the rebate no longer applies before the product is charged.

Read More Carefully, People! (1)

WCityMike (579094) | more than 12 years ago | (#4000537)

YES, the "School of Changes" rebate form still exists on Amazon.

NO, the rebate form no longer has "Mac OS 10.2: Jaguar" listed on it.

Information (2)

Laplace (143876) | more than 12 years ago | (#4000989)

Has anyone contacted Amazon about this? What sort of reply have you gotten from them?

If I can't get the $50 rebate, I'll cancel my order.

Amazon Rebate (1)

Brother Dale (598070) | more than 12 years ago | (#4003664)

I printed out a rebate coupon with OS X 10.2: Jaguar. This is no longer any good? Maybe I should put this coupon on the web for everyone to use. We should flood their store with them. Your Brother Dale.

There should be an upgrade price, but... (1)

tuxedobob (582913) | more than 12 years ago | (#4003860)

don't hold your breath. As I said in the petition [petitiononline.com] , the public's upgrade price should be about $69, and the student's should be about $39.

What Apple (and its customers) need to keep in mind is that unlike Windows, with its myriad versions of the OS, each supposedly targeted for a different market (Home, Professional, etc.), Apple really only has one. Well, unless you're running a professional-grade server, in which case you get OS X Server with it, don't you?

Amazon.com still honoring rebate (1)

Kaworukun (598153) | more than 12 years ago | (#4004432)

As the subject says..I'll quote the email I recieved from Amazon.
Thank you for writing to us at Amazon.com regarding this issue.


We recently offered a $50.00 promotional rebate for "Mac OS X 10.2 Jaguar." This item is currently available for pre-order on our web site. Due to the overwhelming response to this promotional offer, we are unable to continue offering the rebate at this time.

We will be honoring rebate offers for pre-orders of this product that were placed on or before 7:00 pm PDT July 31, 2002.

At this time, we are unable to honor this rebate offer for pre-orders that were placed after 7:00 pm PDT July 31, 2002. We apologize for any inconvenience.

Since your pre-order was placed during the time period that this promotional offer was posted on our web site, please proceed with submitting this rebate offer per the instructions located on the
rebate form. Please note, these offers will be limited to one per household. If you were unable to print this rebate form at the time of purchase, please contact us; we will send you the necessary link to print this promotional offer.

Thank you for shopping at Amazon.com.

CompUSA has a great deal though... (1)

wal9000 (302320) | more than 12 years ago | (#4009795)

Re:CompUSA has a great deal though... (1)

wal9000 (302320) | more than 12 years ago | (#4015444)

Hehe they fixed it. Check out the screenshot [toomuchsexy.org] of the original error.

Amazon suckage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4010095)

I've uded Amazon since the beginning and spent thousands of dollars there. This is yet another reason to buy my books elsewhere. All they do anywya is assult with buy this buuy that shit. Takes forever to check out. Same reason I got off Yahoo after years as my home page.
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