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Crossover Gets Quicken

Hemos posted more than 12 years ago | from the sweet-sweet-quicken dept.

Wine 252

Jeremy White writes: "involved with the Wine project 4 years ago, a major personal goal for me was to switch my wife's computer to Linux. But there was a simple caveat: "No Quicken, No Linux." As of today, CrossOver Office now supports Quicken (and my wife was beta tester #1 *grin*). The new version, 1.2.0, also supports Visio and fixes a raft of bugs. The press release is at Codeweavers and a review can be found here. " I've got a similar situation - been running Quicken for the last ten years, and have only one data section lost, so this is pretty darn cool. And it freakin' works.

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ha ha (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022598)

fuckle

Re:ha ha (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022679)

I know this is CrossOver but my measuring-stick with WINE is when it can run applications written ten years ago and slowly modified to work in newer versions of Windows. I'm talking your Jasc PaintShopPro's, your Adobe and Macromedia's, your unclean evolutionised code.

Can they run any of these?

funny (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022601)

isn't it funny that the CEO of Codeweavers has to submit the post to slashdot rather than waiting for fans to do it?... advertising!

lol (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022603)

All your links in the headline are messed up. Way to go Slashdot!

IT'S A MIRACLE (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022605)

This has been my major complaint about Wine for about 3 years!

Standard Wine? (2, Interesting)

BJH (11355) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022606)

Does this work with mainline Wine as well, or is it Crossover-only at the moment?
I know Codeweavers have been good about feeding fixes back into the mainline project (unlike WineX), and I hope they keep it up.

Re:Standard Wine? (1)

kormoc (122955) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022812)

winex does feel into rewind (rewind.sourceforge.net). Rewind is MIT/X11, not LGPL. don't bash winex. They do feed back into the free base, and you can always get winex for free anyway.

Re:Standard Wine? (1)

Captain Morgan (160029) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022841)

Winex only feeds some patches back into mainline wine, codeweavers on the other hand feeds all of their patches back as far as anyone can tell.

Re:Standard Wine? (2, Informative)

kormoc (122955) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022868)

Winex can only feed some back. They use code that is owned by others in the copy protection. I feel this is a valid reason not to. I also pay for software, so this is not a problem for me.

BOMB THE MUSLIMS! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022905)

Bomb the Muslims
(An updating of the classic song "Bomb the Russians" by Fear)

bomb the muslims bomb the muslims bomb the muslims
then they'll never get to you
bomb the muslims bomb the muslims bomb the muslims
then we'll see who buries who

strike while the iron is hot
strike they won't get off a shot
strike so our bombs from space
protect the all american race

strike kill every towelhead
strike they'd be better off dead
strike when their last blood is shed
then we won't worry who's ahead

bomb the muslims bomb the muslims bomb the muslims
we don't have to take their shit
bomb the muslims bomb the muslims bomb the muslims
we'll be better of for it

strike while they're all asleep
strike kill the Arab creeps
strike they messed with the best
now they die like the rest

strike give 'em one more for me
strike put it on t.v.
strike cause the "duke" would do it
he would make the ragheads chew it

bomb the muslims bomb the muslims bomb the muslims!

Slightly OT: GnuCash (4, Interesting)

Space Coyote (413320) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022608)

Was wondering if anyone familiar with Quicken and GnuCash could give a good comparison of the features and usability of both programs, from the standpoint of someone who wants to start managing his or her personal finances. Would it be worth it to buy crossover and quicken, or could the average user get the hang of GnuCash easily enough?

Re:Slightly OT: GnuCash (1)

spagbol (458981) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022645)

I have used both. GNUcash is a double entry system and has taught me lots about proper accounting. Quicken is more of a personal checkbook register. Quicken is probable easier to set up, GNUcash is better for more complex accounting.

Re:Slightly OT: GnuCash (4, Insightful)

athakur999 (44340) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022673)

I tried using GNUcash a while ago. I don't know about Quicken, but at least compared to MS Money it definately fell short. GNUcash does a fair of telling you where you've been, but doesn't seem to have any functionality of telling you where you're going.

For example, in Money I can put in a schedule of all my paychecks, bills, etc., as well estimates of my monthly budget (how much I spend on gas, dining out, etc.). Money can them show me a pretty line graph of a day by day estimate of what my balance is going to look like for the next month, three months, year, whatever. This lets me locate possible trouble points well ahead of time and plan around them, instead of risking overdrafting my account.

You can also put in all your loans, credit cards, etc. with their interest rates, and put in how much you want to pay per month. Money can split up that money and tell you the best way to pay things off while minimizing your interest payments.

GNUcash may have these features now, if so please tell us!

Re:Slightly OT: MS Money (4, Funny)

slickwillie (34689) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022706)

Does it automatically schedule version upgrades and payments to M$, or do you have to put those in manually?

Re:Slightly OT: MS Money (0)

jsled (11433) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022739)

I'm working hard to get that into 1.8. ;)

Re:Slightly OT: MS Money (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022762)

Too funny...!!! Please mod this as such!

Re:Slightly OT: GnuCash (5, Informative)

jsled (11433) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022727)

Scheduled Transactions are in CVS now, and could use some Feedback; they'll definitely be in 1.8, which we are hoping to get out in a couple/few months.

The more forward-looking stuff I hope to add for 2.0, which is quite a ways off. If you're interested in jumping in and getting something basic [like a report which would contain some of the functionality] done for 1.8, please do so. :)

Gnucash development continues (2)

Goonie (8651) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022751)

Amongst other things, scheduled transactions are in CVS now. A fair bit of the development has been on business features rather than personal financial management gloss though, AFAIK (I'm no longer directly involved - I have a thesis to do :).

Re:Slightly OT: GnuCash (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022811)

I have always hated Quicken. When it first came out, it was supposed to be hot, so I tried it, and couldn't stand it -- no double-entry, and you were forced to keep track of your accouting via a picture of a check on the screen (which I found insulting). After they bought my favorite competitor (Parsons software made several different packages, Quicken bought them, killed the accounting package, and sold the rest to someone else), I tried Quicken and decided that it had only gotten worse. Their feature which lessened data entry keystrokes by auto-completing vendor names assumed that I always spent exactly $10.47 at the grocery store, thus forcing me to increase the number of keystrokes. There was so much swearing that first day, that my wife went out and found Money Matters (I think it is called), which is a Java program, thus cross-platform, and a decent program at that.

Re:Slightly OT: GnuCash (3, Informative)

Arethan (223197) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022824)

I vote GnuCash. Seriously. All of the pretty graphs and predictions built into Quicken are great, but it is all absolutely useless when the data entry tools are borked. GnuCash uses a double entry system, which is far more sane than any single entry system I've every seen. (More resistant to typos as well.) And I can't believe that Quicken STILL doesn't have any way to tell you what your CLEARED balance is in your checking accounts. GnuCash has had this ever since I can remember, but I'll be damned if I can find a way to look at it in Quicken. Sure, the column is there, but other than the satisfaction of seeing a little "c" in the column for every transaction, I see no use for it in Quicken. My wife and I each keep track of our own accounts, and I'm consistantly able to tell you down to the penny how much money I have. And she is consistantly able to screw up her registers in Quicken because she can't see what her cleared balance is when she's comparing between Quicken and her online statements.

Like I said, GnuCash has the cleared balance neatly displayed at the top of the register at all times. It makes keeping your bank register and your finance software in sync much easier. But hey, I (and my wife) may just be unable to use Quicken properly. Which I must admit is odd, considering how easy GnuCash is for me to use on a daily basis. Plus, the learning curve was basically nil. I was up and running full time in less than 4 hours, and I have almost no experience tracking my finances this closely. (I used to just make sure I had a few thousand bucks in my account at all times, and then I could be pretty sure I wasn't going to over withdraw it.)

Kudos to the GnuCash team. My only complaint is that I can't download generic precompiled binaries off their website that will run on nearly all linux distros. But then again, that's not entirely their fault, considering how fucked up Linux gets in the cross distro compatibility area...

Anyhow, long story short.
By my vote: GnuCash == good. Quicken == garbage.

Re:Slightly OT: GnuCash (2, Informative)

fo0bar (261207) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022898)

Anyhow, long story short. By my vote: GnuCash == good. Quicken == garbage.

Sorry, I must butt in here. I've been using quicken for about 4 years now, and has work rather well for me.

Yes, you hit my one nerve: no quick way to see the cleared balance via the register page. HOWEVER, if you use an online service linked to quicken (I have the quicken option for Wells Fargo), you can see your cleared balance in the Online Center screen. The point is moot for me, though, because I basically treat each payment as if it were collected immediately. That cash is GONE from my checking account the moment I write that check. The result is I never go into the red, and don't have to worry about it.

Which brings me to the next item: bank integration. I don't forsee an open standard for online banking transactions anytime in the near future. It sucks, but it's the truth for now. In the mean time, quicken's integration with my bank for checking and saving (and investing once Wells Fargo gets off its ass) is a godsend. Makes personal finance about a million times easier when you have automatic reconciliation against the online register. Well worth the $7/mo.

Also, bill pay. Yes, I know every web site under the sun offers bill pay these days, but it's so convienent to automatically send the request to pay Capital One the balance of whatever's in my Capital One account this month, on a certain date. And the fact that it's all in one place is convienent.

My car loan. It's nice to see a chart of my car's equity from the loan payments vs. current value. Also I can see exactly how much out of my monthly $400 payment goes toward interest (at that point I break down and cry, maybe it's not such a good feature).

Basically, it fits my needs. I like it, A LOT. You may not, great. Continue to use GnuCash. Each person has different needs.

EOF

GnuCash DOES have OFX support in cvs now (4, Informative)

benoitg (302050) | more than 12 years ago | (#4023018)

It's not perfect, and does need feedback, but it is there. Standard bank and credit card account are supported. Investement accounts will be when LibOFX (http://step.polymtl.ca/~bock/libofx/ [polymtl.ca] ) matures. As for bill pay, unless banks start giving TRUE OFX access at large, that is still a long way off.

Re:Slightly OT: GnuCash (2, Informative)

bmwm3nut (556681) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022877)

i used quicken for about 5 or 6 years and then i decided to make everything linux, so i had to switch to gnucash. i think gnucash is more true to real accounting pricipals than quicken is (it uses the double entry method). all of my quicken data converted over seamlessly and worked great. for most things i like gnucash better, and i suggest if you're going to start, to start with gnucash, the double entry accounting works better if you start that way rather than converting after you get used to quicken's way of doing things. the only thing that i like quicken for better is some of the reports. different graphs and reports are easier to make with quicken, but it looks like gnucash is getting better there. another thing that gnucash lacks is automatic calculation of amortizations. when i had quicken all i had to do was click a button every month to update my mortgage, with gnucash i have to type it in each month. overall i suggest you go with gnucash. did i mention the open xml data format too?

Re:Slightly OT: GnuCash (1)

jsled (11433) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022887)

Well, in CVS there's a Druid to help setup Mortgage/Loan-repayment Scheduled Transactions... I'd really appreciate you're trying it out, as I don't have a loan/mortgage myself, and it seems like everyone has slight differences in the way their's works, anyways.

quickbooks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022609)

how bout quickbooks pro?

Re:quickbooks (1)

whatparadox (560642) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022810)

I've read on Quickbooks site (don't want to look for it again) that they do not currently plan, or forsee planning on porting Quickbooks to anything else.

Re:quickbooks (2)

ceejayoz (567949) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022856)

No, but they haven't ported Quicken either. Intuit had nothing to do with this. This is just a way to run Quicken on Linux using an emulator, not an actual port of the software.

Re:quickbooks (1)

roybentley (584338) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022949)

i use it at work.. absoulte trash. you may be okay unless you keep inventory in your personal finances. ;-)

Broken Link (2, Informative)

dorzak (142233) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022610)

The first link is broken.....

Re:Broken Link (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022643)

And the second link is about windependece not a review of codeweavers. oi poloi!

Re:Broken Link (1)

bucklesl (73547) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022651)

The first link is broken.....

Well, there CAN only be one..*ahem* working link, that is. Thank goodness my quicken -ing can begin.

All good and cute (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022622)

I use crossover plug to run Office 97 and it randomly locks up all the time. There is no way I'd use that or anything wine- related in a production. Atleast not at any job I value. Freaken Winex w/ counter strike has been broken for 9 weeks now with "a fix right around the corner". To bad turning that corner has now taken 9 weeks.

Re:All good and cute (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022726)

I use crossover plug to run Office 97 and it randomly locks up all the time.

I think you've got it all wrong. This means that it is is far closer to the native windows environment than anybody realized. You should post your success to the wine devlelopers immediately.

now if only (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022626)

it supported DX 8.1
*sigh*

Re:now if only (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022692)

...*OR* if only companies would support openGL and Linux. The sooner we're away from DirectX, the better. *sigh*

Re:now if only (2, Informative)

spectral (158121) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022830)

Although I hate microsoft as much as anyone else (I use it as my main OS because VMWare refused to work, no matter what I tried, and I need IE working for web development, sad, but true), I can't say that DirectX now is all that bad. I personally find it much, much more difficult to code for than OpenGL, but the way it leads standards does seem (to me at least) to benefit everyone. I don't see standardized 3D Positional audio under linux. Until OGL 1.4 there weren't even standardized Pixel/Vertex shaders, were there? Yeah, Direct3D has different versions of them, but code for one and it will work on all cards claiming to support that version of DirectX. DX9 requires all floating point pipelines, etc. Which makes things look better. Yeah, maybe hardware vendors would eventually have done this on their own, but I don't see OpenGL leading them to do it NOW and not later.

DirectX is a horrible API, especially to program for, and definitely for cross-platform, but it at least gets new technology "standardized" quicker. That being said, I code only OpenGL, I like the portability :) Comments welcome, but this is how I personally see the situation.

What? (2, Funny)

buzzbomb (46085) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022632)

Oooh...XHTML2 links must look like this:

http://www/about/press_releases/?id=20020807

I guess I need Mozilla 2.0 to use it. ;)

Re:What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022944)

If you don't upgrade it's your own fault!

The correct link (2, Informative)

marcelkiel (564382) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022633)

CodeWeavers.com [codeweavers.com]

"Use the Preview Button! Check those URLs! Don't forget the http://!"

Links (2, Informative)

mrmag00 (200868) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022646)

Oh so interesting topic - yet so many broken links! Heellllppp!!

Codeweavers Press Release [codeweavers.com]

Don't know about the rest though.

Re:Links (2, Informative)

mrmag00 (200868) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022667)

Ack, I'm an idiot.
The review [desktoplinux.com] link also didnt load for me, maybe it was slashdotted after a couple seconds, but I found this because I wanted to see how well it worked :)

Looks neat.

Cool (1)

Aknaton (528294) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022654)

but if I really wanted to switch, I would have just bought a copy of VMWare.

How well does Internet Explorer work? (2)

e_n_d_o (150968) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022656)

I'd love to hear anyone's experience using CrossOver as a method to run Internet Explorer for the purpose of testing Web applications from a Linux machine. I need IE to behave just like it does on Windows, such that I can test applications and have the results be entirely indicative of their behavior on a real Windows machine. I'd also like to run multiple versions of IE, which is impossible without multiple machines or a VM.

I've tried earlier versions of CrossOver (to get QuickTime support), and while it does "work", the startup time is terrible and it does not work well with multiple desktops. (The QuickTime window is present on ALL desktops and does not behave well with the window manager (Sawfish)).

Re:How well does Internet Explorer work? (1)

repoleved (569427) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022684)

e_n_d_o said:I'd love to hear anyone's experience using CrossOver as a method to run Internet Explorer for the purpose of testing Web applications from a Linux machine. I need IE to behave just like it does on Windows, such that I can test applications and have the results be entirely indicative of their behavior on a real Windows machine. I'd also like to run multiple versions of IE, which is impossible without multiple machines or a VM.

This job sounds more ideal for VMWare, since you could get multiple machines running with different versions of internet explorer, whereas that might be difficult/inconvenient with wine...

As a side note, mozilla now has an Internet Explorer theme which is good enough to fool most people... ;-)

Re:How well does Internet Explorer work? (1)

dcstimm (556797) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022689)

it works great for me! maybe you need a faster computer? What is you hdparm -t /dev/hdx output? maybe you didnt optimize your harddrive? here is my output : /dev/hda: Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 1.82 seconds = 35.75 MB/sec (higher MB/sec the better)

Re:How well does Internet Explorer work? (1)

e_n_d_o (150968) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022701)

One minor clarification: I've used earlier versions of the CrossOver plug-in... I don't have any experience with the Office version, or its performance.

Re:How well does Internet Explorer work? (3, Informative)

kableh (155146) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022709)

I used Crossover Office exclusively as an Outlook Client and Internet Explorer for about 2 months. GUI bugs and other little problems drove me nuts in OUTLOOK, but it was good enough. IE worked fairly well, allowing me to do my online banking, but that was about it. Flash and Media Player 6.4 did work within it, but it seemed to crash just as frequently as it did on Windows =/.

Re:How well does Internet Explorer work? (3, Informative)

sprzepiora (160561) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022723)

I use ie 6 daily with crossover. I havn't had a problem with the last release of crossover.

Re:How well does Internet Explorer work? (4, Informative)

markus (2264) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022884)

I haven't tested the newest version of CrossOver, yet, so support for IE might have improved by now. As for testing compatibility of web sites, my main problems were that:
  1. IE would not always start under Linux, whereas all the other office programs always worked fine (with a few minor bugs). I never figured out why IE would sometimes just refuse to run.
  2. IE doesn't come with all the neccessary components and I could never work out how to install them afterwards. This means, if your web page requires Asian fonts or non-standard plugins, then there really isn't too much you can do.
Apart from these restrictions (which might very well be fixed with the new release of CrossOver), I have successfully tested my web pages using IE on Linux.

I never had the need to run multiple instances of IE at the same time, but you can do so pretty easily under Linux. If I had to do this, I'd probably just use multiple instances of User Mode Linux, because it gives full guaranteed isolation and it is pretty straight forward to set up for this purpose. If you don't quite need this much isolation, then there probably is some way you can make CrossOver run multiple instances of Wine (possibly by using some "chroot()" tricks).

Re:How well does Internet Explorer work? (2)

crisco (4669) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022889)

I'm curious about this as well, especially the correctness part and multiple versions (although I'm hearing more and more of bugs in IE6 that only show up on specific machines, the web designer's nightmare)

Sure, VMWare would work, but at $300 a pop I might as well throw together a multi-boot system specifically for testing.

I know how deep IE gets its roots inside windows, so I can't imagine multiple versions running off one install of Codeweaver or Wine. But what if I installed each as a different user, can I separate out the Wine/Codeweaver installations per user to create a different IE install for each user?

The possibility of Macromedia stuff on Linux sounds rather nice, Dreamweaver MX provides a pointy clicky interface to PHP/MySQL, if the authoring programs and the app server can all live on the same machine that might prove attractive to those that don't want the pointy clicky web designers screwing with the live server.

That's nice. (1)

acceleriter (231439) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022665)

If I wanted to endure Quicken's forced registration, ceaseless marketing spam, and in-program ads, and it's requirement that you funnel online access to your accounts through Intuit, I'd sign right up. But I don't, so I've switched to GNUcash [gnucash.org] and haven't looked back.

Re:That's nice. (2, Interesting)

Hollins (83264) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022710)

All of these nuisances are avoidable in Quicken. Not surprisingly, Microsoft Money is worse. It even hijacks your web browser whenever you visit a site where money can be spent.

In my opinion, the features of Quicken far outweigh its shortcomings. With a bank and brokerage that support online updating, I can download and reconcile all transactions without having to do a cumbersome, and flakey, file import. I pay bills by entering them in the register, then clicking 'online update'. Its investment tracking tools are unsurpassed. It tracks everything from mortgage interest to capital gains to IRA contributions to tell me where I stand with the government at any moment. gnuCash is coming along, but it's closer to managing your finances with a spreadsheet than the features Quicken and Money have. With a little finagling, I've managed to turn off all the ads, and I've never given any information to Intuit's website.

And don't get me started on using Quicken and Turbo Tax in April.

Re:That's nice. (2)

demaria (122790) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022738)

How do you turn off the in programs ads and popups saying "April 15th is coming..." ?

Re:That's nice. (4, Interesting)

Hollins (83264) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022786)

Here's all the things I had to do that i remember:
  • Under the 'General' tab of quicken options, select "Hide advertisements in online financial center"
  • Under the 'Startup' tab, select 'none'
  • Customize the 'My Finances' page to remove the alerts box. This feature does nothing for me, anyway.
  • Right-click the alert bar at the bottom and select the option that removes the alert bar.
  • Remove all Quicken items from Windows' Start folder.
That's all I remember. Like I said, it took some doing, but I don't remember seeing an ad since January.

Re:That's nice. (2, Funny)

BitHive (578094) | more than 12 years ago | (#4023009)

Yeah, a simple "Dude, April 15th was yesterday!" popup would work just fine, thank you.

I love this, first Winex 2.1 and now this (1)

dcstimm (556797) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022670)

I love linux, I am glad, that companies are working make usable programs out of opensource code, I like the idea that if I pay them $39.99 they will support me on installing Office, and Quicktime on my computer. and Since I bought the Codeweaver plugins I get a discount on this. I think its a very good deal! Now if I could only get snood (snood.com) running in wine I would be happy.

Why not support the native Linux alternative? (4, Informative)

Rude Turnip (49495) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022671)

Why not give Kapital [thekompany.com] , put out by The Kompany [thekompany.com] , a try? Kapital is essentially a klone (pun intended) of Quicken for Linux. From what I read on their site, it has most of the features of Quicken, but no automatic online bank dowloads.

Re:Why not support the native Linux alternative? (2)

npietraniec (519210) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022725)

It doesn't look like it's at 1.0 yet... They also say kde 2.1 is required. Will it work with 3.0?

Focus on Linux apps (4, Interesting)

papasui (567265) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022688)

Whats the point of turning linux into a windows machine? If you want to run Windows programs stabably you have this OS called Windows 2000. Seriously this isn't ment to troll or be a flambait, but the apps make the OS why not focus on making great apps for linux instead of making linux this OS that can run Windows apps.

Re:Focus on Linux apps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022745)

we know u r hard with a capital D

but for others, it makes the transition easier

Re:Focus on Linux apps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022774)

It adds tremendous value to Linux...Linux needs to provide a compelling reason for the average user to ask for it when they buy their next PC. We aren't going to get them to upgrade, but a Dell or other manufacturer would consider putting it on where customers want the features of Linux and backwards compatability for their legacy windows apps. If there is no transition path, then there is no transition -- Linux on the desktop falls off the cliff.

Re:Focus on Linux apps (1)

typedef (139123) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022880)

Yeah, but why the hell does the 'average user' need to run Linux? Don't get me wrong, I love Linux. Its my primary operatiing system and I wouldn't even consider using anything else. But I frankly wouldn't find it very useful if I weren't a programmer, and I wouldn't find it very fun if I didn't like to tinker. Linux (or any Unix for that matter) isn't an operating system for your grandmother to use on her E-Machine. Its simply best kept in the hands of power-users for the desktop, and otherwise it should be kept on the server.

Many Windows Apps are better (4, Insightful)

Planesdragon (210349) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022775)

I don't want to run "windows programs" stabiliy. I want to run the best software on my pc--and much of the time, that's software that only works on windows.

Face it; Linux has a piddly market penetration, so bad that it's well nigh impossible to make money supporting it all. A small company (or just a well-run, tight margins, efficient company) that only has the time to develop for one platform will choose windows; unless they're serious hardware or a custom solution, they'd be foolish not to.

By letting Linux run windows apps, Linux makes all those developers that are windows only potential allies, instead of the definite enemies that are now. If your reveune model depends on windows being on the desktop, you're not going to take kindly to efforts to replace it with something else that won't run your program. If this something else *will* run your program, as well as windows will and on the same hardware, then you've nothing to worry about.

Re:Focus on Linux apps (2, Interesting)

DearSlashdot (592493) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022779)

I agree with you to a point. It would be no good to be just a windows clone. However, I think that Quickbooks (which is discussed in the article) is a "killer conversion" app. Many many small businesses run Quickbooks as their mission-critical system. They could get along fine with Mozilla, Staroffice instead of IE or MS office. But the accounting software is the last thing they are going to screw with.

I think this is especially useful when it comes time to expand. When an office suddenly needs two PCs, the logical step is a network. Maybe even a server. That's where sticker shock for a Win2k network kicks in, and where the free (beer) side of Linux can be a huge blessing. Without Quickbooks, moving away from Windows will be painful (espcially since the last time I checked, you can't export your data from Quickbooks).

Re:Focus on Linux apps (1)

whatparadox (560642) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022816)

As the IT Dept for a small company I second that. Hell, its half the reason we have PCs instead of straight Macs.

It's not - not at all. (2)

wirefarm (18470) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022784)

First off, apps do not make the OS! If that was true, I'd still be using Windows.
I think the beauty of this sort of thing is that it helps people cross over (pun intended.) to linux.
Not just end users, mind you, but also the companies that write software. If I was Quicken, I'd be talking to these people to help make sure that Quicken runs great on Linux. For them, it means not scrapping 10 years of development just to gain a 1% share of desktops.

If the CrossOver team can tell them 'Hey, try to avoid these system calls and this DLL and it will work way better,' They just might listen. (It's a lot better than telling them that they need to invest in a KDE development team, a Gnome/GTK development team and of course, a command-line client...) Maybe the managers and the marketing types wouldn't listen, but I bet at least a few of the developers would and code appropriately.

Of couse, I have no idea of the real issues between Windows apps and Crossover - I'm talking through my hat as usual - but I think the general gist of it is not far off.

Cheers,
Jim in Tokyo

Re:Focus on Linux apps (1)

mrmag00 (200868) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022850)

Migration is the key though. You can't open all Microsoft documents that other people send you in Linux. Nor is GNUCASH equal to Quicken feature wise. The list goes on.

Microsoft does the exact same thing - ever wondered why Microsoft didn't jump to convert the desktop version of Windows to a FAR better kernel (NT) until only recently (Windows XP)? Because it lost compatability with most DOS/16-bit programs. They did their best to make as much legacy work as possible, and just let time pass by to let the old applications weed out.

Besides, its too cool to say My OS supports Your OS but Your OS Hates Mine.

Re:Focus on Linux apps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022896)

wtf? if you want windowz programs to operate "stabably" than you have to BUY windows 2000... thats what 200? 300? dollars? linux=free and a hell of a lot more stable than win2k, and it runs on a greater ammnt of machines... write for windows w/codeweaver in mind and release programs at the same time for both linux and windows... which would please consumers and customers alike... wether or not their tech savvy enough to use linux. they have a choice, which could end a lot of this crap were seeing now

Re:Focus on Linux apps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022992)

I don't know what alternate reality you live in buy I leave my Windows 2000 desktop running 24/7 for weeks at a time. The only time I reboot is when I change drivers or boot into Linux.

Hell, NT 4 is just as stable as Linux.

Crossover vs. WINE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022705)

What's the difference, in a nutshell?

My $0.02 (1, Informative)

saxman57 (132496) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022708)

I bought this when 1.0 came out and upgraded to 1.1. Under 1.1 it was much improved but the reality is if I need to run MS Office applications under Linux, I'll do it in VMWare. I'm sure the 1.2 is improved and it is certainly cheaper then VMWare but I don't think it could be used effectively in a production environment by normal business users.

I've been running Quicken for a while under wine.. (2)

npietraniec (519210) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022711)

I've been running Quicken for a while under wine... It never ran perfect, just good enough. This might be it though, especially since I can get a discount for having purchased crossover plugin. Codeweavers is a great company.

This is very good news... (1, Redundant)

Tyreth (523822) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022716)

I think my mum might even be pleased. The press release says "full support for QuickBooks will be forthcoming in the near future". After that I'll have everything my mother needs.

I've been slowly drawing my mother over to Linux. I'm using it and say "Mum come and look at this". And I show her this feature (the updated weather icon in gnome) or that feature, and she says "Can I do that?". So I reply "Sorry mum, you're using windows."

Perhaps soon I'll be able to switch her over at work. She needs quicken and quickbooks for her work since we send that file format off to the accountant.

Re:This is very good news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022820)

The only thing scarier than someone using Quicken is someone who assumes that Quickbooks is an appropriate program to keep track of business finances.

Here is the correct link . . . (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022721)

. . . for the review by DesktopLinux.com of CrossOver Office 1.2: Quicken and QuickBooks and Visio, oh my! (on Linux, that is) [desktoplinux.com] . In the article, DesktopLinux.com founder and executive editor Rick Lehrbaum previews a beta version of CodeWeavers CrossOver Office 1.2, which now supports Quicken and Visio (among other enhancements). Lehrbaum also interviews CodeWeavers CEO Jeremy White, to learn more about what else is coming, and what it takes for new apps to be added to CrossOver Office's support.

For those asking about rolling in changes to Wine (1)

Critical_ (25211) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022741)

I e-mailed Mr. White a while back when Office 1.0 was released. He told me that they will be rolling all the changes back into the wine tree. For the money you pay, you get support plus the nifty installer. I am very pleased with their work and have purchased a copy. In the desktoplinux.com interview, Mr. White says they have gone past the 10,000 mark. People say that you can't make money of open-source but Crossover is doing a decent job. They are rolling changes back and offering a product that people want.

One thing I want to know is how soon the specific Quicken patches will the rolled back into the Wine main tree. Any ideas?

Re:For those asking about rolling in changes to Wi (5, Informative)

jeremy_white (598942) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022754)

The patches will start rolling in next week as we merge our tree with the WineHQ tree.
We only keep Wine patches out while we're stabilizing a version of CrossOver.
Cheers,
Jeremy

Like I said... (1)

Critical_ (25211) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022761)

Awesome support!

Thanks for the info.

Well, thats it (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022743)

Looks like this is the final blow for Microsoft. We all knew Linux was going to take over the desktop market, and now it is going to be funny watching it happen over the next few days.

MYOB? (1)

Espressoman (8032) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022758)

Personally I'd love to see the popular small business accounting package MYOB (Mind Your Own Business) supported. Has anyone had any luck getting this to run with any of the WINE flavors out there?

chicken (1)

froseph (549853) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022760)

Ahhh I read the title as "Crossover gets Chicken". I guess I know what has been on my mind for the past few days.

Re:chicken (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022892)

No, you just speed read. Whether you know it or not.

Re:chicken (1)

xanadu-xtroot.com (450073) | more than 12 years ago | (#4023008)

Ah, don't worry about it, man. You know what they say:

"It smells like fish, but it tastes like chicken"

Your head is in the right place.
:-)

Codeweavers and Transgaming (1)

derinax (93566) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022763)

I have a question. Quicken was the last hold-out; my Windows box can truly become single-boot Linux at this point. But I have a question first.

Can Codeweavers Wine coexist with Transgaming's Wine?

Thanks for your prompt reply.
Derina X. Pinchfish

Re:Codeweavers and Transgaming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022772)

Yes it can. Transgaming's wine is "winex", as opposed to "wine". And they seem to play nice with each other in every way on my box.

Re:Codeweavers and Transgaming (2)

xanadu-xtroot.com (450073) | more than 12 years ago | (#4023027)

Can Codeweavers Wine coexist with Transgaming's Wine?

Yup. Works fine. I've got a couple boxes with both on them. They are happy as a clam together.

Prices... (1, Redundant)

dotgod (567913) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022777)

Quicken 2002 [intuit.com] : $59.95

Crossover Office [codeweavers.com] : $54.95

Total: $114.90

--or--

GNU Cash [gnucash.org] : $0.00

Total: FREE!

Re:Prices... (1)

danheskett (178529) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022792)

And the alternative to spending about $100?

Trusting your finances to poorly tested, unstable, and undocumented software?

Priceless.

Re:Prices... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022826)

sounds like you dont know what you're talking about.

Re:Prices... (5, Funny)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022819)

Except:

Time: Priceless

Quicken + Crossover Office
Adjusted Total: $114.90

GNU Cash
Adjusted Total: $->infinity

Just Remember (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022834)

Linux is free as long as your time is worth nothing.

Re:Just Remember (2)

philipsblows (180703) | more than 12 years ago | (#4023058)

Then Windows costs several thousand dollars per year for me, the single user.

My time isn't free, but I'll spend time learning about an OS that wants to be learned, not wrestling with an OS that doesn't.

Other "critical" applications? (4, Interesting)

Speare (84249) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022832)

What other must-have "mission critical" applications does WINE fully support, or will support soon? Long-term Linux users sometimes avoid tasks or fileformats that are only served by certain applications. New adoptees need a transition plan that includes their favorite applications.

Here are a few I could think of, but I expect there are others.

  • Macromedia Dreamweaver? Any version 2+?
  • Macromedia Flash 5 Editor?
  • Stock photo exporters like Hemera Photo-Objects?
  • Any recent Adobe Photoshop?
  • Any recent Adobe Premiere?
  • Any recent Adobe AfterEffects?
  • Any recent Adobe [nee Aldus] PageMaker?
  • Any recent Adobe Illustrator?
  • Any of the Panoramic photograph stitchers?

(I know that there's Linux programs that are almost as nice, or even in some cases better. The Windows ports and additional tools that accompany the free "PanoTools" are far superior to the available Linux/GIMP integration at this point, for example. This is about transitioning people who are lost without some familiar applications.)

Still Waiting... (1)

rongage (237813) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022840)

When we can run AutoCAD, Quickbooks Pro, and the Allen Bradley Programming tools (RSLogix), then I'll be able to dump Windows 2000 completely. Until then, I have to stay in the Windows world...

and if Crossover fails... (4, Funny)

rope (231419) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022870)

a major personal goal for me was to switch my wife's computer to Linux. But there was a simple caveat: "No Quicken, No Linux."

and if Crossover fails Jeremy can change wife ;)

melt me down (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4022903)

for slag, sell me as scrap metal.

In other news... (2)

artemis67 (93453) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022937)

Intuit has announced that QuickBooks is coming back to the Mac [quickbooks.com] . This is significant for the Mac to start making inroads back into businesses, because QB is such a staple of small business accounting.

I'm not sure what changed their minds; I just remember the announcement in 1997 that QB development on the Mac was being halted (I think it was already 2 years behind the PC version at that point). This in spite of the fact that one of the first things that Steve Jobs did was to put Intuit's CEO on the board of directors at Apple.

As a Mac user, I'm grateful, but I have to wonder what took so long...

QuickBooks or Peachtree? (2)

martinflack (107386) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022960)

Anyone had any success running QuickBooks or Peachtree on Crossover?

I already use Gnucash at home... what I'd love is to switch the accounting at work to a Linux box.

Re:QuickBooks or Peachtree? (2, Informative)

jeremy_white (598942) | more than 12 years ago | (#4022986)

We had a beta tester report success in installing and running Peachtree but we haven't verified or tried it ourselves. He sent some impressive screen shots... (thanks, Tom!).

However, the odds are that an untested application like Peachtree will have enough bugs to not be useable in a production environment.

Of course, a great way to fix that is to buy a copy and then yell at us until we support it .

Cheers,

Jeremy

Re:QuickBooks or Peachtree? (1)

jsled (11433) | more than 12 years ago | (#4023016)

I don't know if it fits the bill in your circumstance, but there are business-accounting features in CVS GnuCash, and I know the developer would love to get feedback on it as we approach 1.7.beta/1.8.
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