Diamonds - Are They Really Worth the Cost? 2388
hardDiamond asks: "I'm going to get engaged. I know my 4 C's. I know I'm going to get screwed by the jeweller, but that's okay: after all, a diamond engagement ring is a time-honoured tradition... NOT. Having checked out the goods, looked for the flaws, I found the biggest one of all. Diamond engagement rings are the creation of a well orchestrated advertising campaign for most of the last century - according to this article.
Would you buy one for the love of your life? I know my girlfriend would love a diamond, but ethically I have my doubts. Diseased-miners, child slave labour, cartel inflated prices... and as if that wasn't enough, diamonds have no resale value. Naddah. Zilch. They'll sell you the shit, but damn it, they're not taking it back at any price. So what have my fellow slashdotters done with regards to engagement rings? What's a good substitute for diamonds? My girlfriend understands my thoughts regarding diamonds, but deep down, I'm sure she would like a diamond. Even a small one." I've never even thought about questioning such a time honored tradition, but now I'm curious. Have any of you looked at the issues surrounding diamonds and found them wanting? What alternatives have you found and were they acceptable?
After researching this a bit, one of the key facts to surface is that 2-4.5% of diamond sales will go to finance terrorism or forms of violence. Such diamonds, for want of a better term, have been named "conflict diamonds". For those of you interested in following up on this subject, here are a few more links:
For those of you who have a subscription to Science News, the cover story, this month, deals with this issue as well.Fatal Transactions
Conflict Diamonds: Sanctions and War
The Campaign to Eliminate Conflict Diamonds
The Kimberly Process, which will attempt to track diamonds to their origin. This is to begin in November.
alternatives? (Score:3, Insightful)
My gf's brother just got engaged. His fiance announced this to my gf by saying, "here's mine, where's yours?"
Whether or not this is obnoxious is not the point. Her friends are going to do much the same.
Time honored is true, but expected is more the reality.
Re:alternatives? (Score:5, Insightful)
I may have plenty of ethical issues against the fine leather used in the new shoes my wife wants for her birthday, but it doesn't mean I'll try buying her a pair of canvas sneakers and hope she doesn't notice.
Re:alternatives? (Score:5, Interesting)
So if you want to donate money do DeBeers (hint: they don't need any more) go ahead and surprise your wife with a diamond ring. But if you have a relationship of trust and communication (i.e. you're not already screwed), talk about it with your wife -- she's an adult, and can tell you herself what she wants. And keep in mind that any diamond you're likely to buy had no significant value until 1938, and there's no particular reason to think that they will in 2038, so the only real value is sentimental (which in this case is up to your wife-to-be). So talk it over. If she thinks that a diamond ring is important, then it is, and you should buy her one. But treat her like an intelligent human being, and give her the chance to talk it over.
Personally, we bought a moderately sized diamond (this was before I knew just how artificial a diamond's value actually was), but more importantly, it's set in a custom ring that we designed and bought together. Instead of surprising her with a ring, we flew to Paris, and I proposed under the Arc de Triumph looking at the Eiffel Tower (after hitting the Louvre and eating an insanely fantastic dinner). She was still surprised (and had a goofy grin for weeks), and this all cost far less than the "two months salary" line DeBeers pitches, and was a lot more memorable because it represented real effort to arrange rather than simply writing a check. We designed and bought the ring a month or two later, together.
Re:alternatives? (Score:5, Interesting)
As for mine, tiny skulls side-by-side that wraps around my finger molded out of white gold. It was originally based on a cheaply made silver ring I got from OzFest'97. When I first met my wife to be, the ring broke that nite. She offer to repair it and no sooner than after i put it on, it broke. Years later when we decide to marry, she surprised me by recasting the old broken ring into something new and improved. The Jeweler made considerable number of structural improvements and left plenty of room for future customizations (ruby eyes, plenty of surface area to attach additional skulls, etc). Needless to say, I was floored by her surprise.
My point? Why buy stock jewelry at all?? treat it like open source, extend, embrace and wear =)
The uniqueness alone makes it valuable in it's own right, maybe not on the marketplace, or maybe so, but who really cares, it's the sentimental value that matters the most, regardless of cost.
What's that??? some of you are saying i'm blowing shit out my mouth cuz we were able to afford these rings, our tune would probably change if were poorer...HEH...Well remember, her folks gave us the worthless diamond, and all the customizations were under $1000 combined and that's STILL less than 2 months salary, way less,
but worth a million times more than any old piece of junk from a jewelry store.
mindrape
damaged cybernetics
Re:alternatives? (Score:5, Insightful)
JESUS! It never fails to amaze me how little geek guys know about women!
Every single woman I've ever been out with went week at the knees at the sight of me refusing to eat at a restaurant because of poor practice, avoiding a brand for poor ethics, or cycling to work to live 'carbon neutral'.
If you care about this stuff - and your women doesn't I dont care how nice her tits are or how often she gets them out for you - DUMP HER. She'd sure as hell get rid of you if the tables were turned, and theres another one out there with BETTER tits who shares your ethics, and cooks a better omlette - you just have to find her.
If you can shelve your ethics for sex - they weren't your ethics in the first place.
Re:alternatives? (Score:4, Funny)
Well, apparently, they're the materialistic small-minded bitches who would marry someone for the financial security they could provide. OF COURSE they're going to want something ridiculously expensive and pointless - it establishes the way things are to go from that point on.
Sorry, I do know you were joking...
Re:alternatives? (Score:3, Interesting)
With that said, you're probably screwed unless you get your fiancee's buy-in.
Re:alternatives? (Score:3, Insightful)
but is it worth it to save someone's life? maybe you should re-consider the relationship if your fiancee values material goods over human life.
Re:alternatives? (Score:5, Insightful)
Talk it over with your intended. Express your feelings. Come to a consensus. Then, spit in the eye of anybody who disparages your (collective) choice.
OT: how C++ does its dirty deed (Score:5, Funny)
I agree: a lot more people are made a lot more miserable by the diamond trade than by C++. The latter is a subtle, merciful killer; it eschews violence. Freshmen simply lose the will to live about four weeks into CS101, when they learn the true meaning of inheritance and friendship: "you aren't going to get a lot of money from your parents, but you will probably get the same self-destructive behavior they had, which will probably be triggered by someone covering his ass after someone you thought was your friend tripped you up by playing with your member".
["Only friends can play with your member(s)" heard from Andy Kinley at RHIT, IIRC. Hi, Andy!]
Re:alternatives? (Score:5, Insightful)
It depends on the girl. The wives of several friends INSISTED on something OTHER than a diamond. One liked rubies (and had the right skin tone to show it off). Another prefered emeralds (green-eyed redhed). A third wanted NO STONE - put the money towards their first house instead.
BOTH of you have to be COMFORTABLE with the decision. Neither of you are marying HER friends.
[In my case, I had an aunt "in the trade" in NYC, so we were able to cut out the middlemen. This was EONS ago, before any awareness of "conflict diamonds"]
Re:alternatives? (Score:4, Insightful)
It has a smiley face on it.
I did get her a wedding ring with a few small diamonds.
Re:alternatives? (Score:5, Funny)
Just give her a gold band with a large piece of coal embedded in it and tell her that you're making a very long term investment in your future together.
Re:alternatives? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:graphite Thermodynamic stability of Diamonds (Score:5, Funny)
I routinely put my girlfriend in a high temperature and pressure environment. She seems to enjoy it.
Re:alternatives? (Score:5, Interesting)
I've never understood the point to diamonds. They're shiny, sure, but so are soap bubbles, sunlight, and tinsel. The "good" ones are perfectly clear. What's the point? And while we're at it, gold can take a hike; yellow doesn't look good on me.
So you know what people say when they see my ring? "Oh, that's so pretty; is that a sapphire? How nice, and different." I have never had a single person, friend, family, or stranger on the street, imply that they thought there was something wrong with my ring, or that maybe he was being cheap. If they had, I would have explained to them that I *asked* for these materials, but it's never come up.
When it comes down to it, if she wants a diamond because she thinks she's supposed to want a diamond, and you want to get her a diamond because you think you're supposed to get her a diamond, I don't know what to tell you except to find your own mind. Oh, and look into created diamonds. [bbc.co.uk]
some friends (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is not the lack of a diamond, it's the lack of friends worthy of the term "friends."
Whether or not this is obnoxious is not the point.
I disagree... The whole point here is that people are pressured into shelling out $thousands for, basically, rocks. How can you overlook that fact that people have been brainwashed into letting peer pressure from blatant snobs run drive them to such extremes? Not to mention that the diamond cartel has brainwashed people into becoming such shallow snobs in the first place.
It gives me the creeps, and makes me ever so thankful that my girlfriend doesn't want a diamond either.
Re:alternatives? (Score:3, Funny)
(The above was a joke. Reference to Wind..aw, screw it.)
Re:alternatives? (Score:5, Insightful)
>
> (The above was a joke. Reference to Wind..aw, screw it.)
Actually, there are people warezing diamonds [pbs.org].
The funniest thing was listening to the DeBeers drone talk about a "natural" diamond -- and that in order to ensure that their chunks of crystalline carbon retained a hold on the market, they're laser-inscribing "DeBeers" on the ones that come through their monopoly.
He sounded like a RIAA executive, as he tried to advocate the position that someone selling a chunk of crystalline carbon that was atom-for-atom identical to the ones DeBeers sells is selling a produce that's somehow "a cheap copy" of the chunks of crystalline carbon that have the word "DeBeers" and a serial number etched into it with a big honking laser, which somehow qualify as "perfect".
If I were female, I'd be far more impressed with the warezed diamond. "This 4-carat carbon crystal was the product of decades of research that allowed it to be fabricated by dissolving carbon in molten metal, and then precipitating the dissolved carbon for a month at high temperatures and pressures, and then any remaining nitrogen atoms lingering in the crystal lattice were shaken into invisible pockets inside the crystal in order to get rid of the icky yellow color" than "This 1-carat carbon crystal was dug out of the mud in a third-world shithole by a guy getting paid $0.01 per day."
From the bottom page of the documentary transcript [pbs.org]
Fuck DeBeers. They're the RIAA of carbon.
Re:alternatives? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:alternatives? (Score:4, Insightful)
Flamebait? Maybe but-- the only person who can make her into a wierdo is her-- is she a wierdo or not? That's her choice and a diamond or lack thereof makes no real difference.
But you run a copy of Windows at home, don't you?
No I don't, nor do my parents.
The real point is that it doesn't matter the marketing hype. What the questioner needs to do is simple-- make sure that the ring:
1: Looks nice on her.
2: Is really really special.
The diamond could be one thing that could impact #2, but depending on her needs and concerns may not be the only thing that could make it work.
Anyway I will also ask you one more question-- What the hell are you doing asking for romantic advice on
Re:Used Diamonds? (Score:4, Insightful)
She didn't even really want an engagement ring, but I convinced her to at least accept a small token, and since I knew about the evil deBeers monopoly, I was morally okay with buying a used ring, and since it's a diamond, no one's going to ask for some long explanation of why it isn't.
But, that said, if I had it to do over again, I'd probably buy it over eBay, prices are even cheaper there, and you can get some good deals if you're careful and buy from someone using an escrowe service. I know someone who bought a ring for $500, arranged that the money stayed in escrowe until he had the ring appraised for at least the $500. He took the ring in, it appraised at $1500, and he released the money from escrowe.
Another thing to consider, is using a family diamond. If your dead great-grandmother's ring is still around, think about having the stone set in a modern setting, if the ring design is somewhat hideous.
And, personally, if a girl wanted a $4,000 piece of carbon from me before she'd marry me, I'd get a new girl. Since I only bought a $280 ring, I was able to afford buying us a house to start our new life together in this summer, I know friends who spent more on engagement rings than I put down as a down payment, and they're married, but stuck renting for another 2 years while they save up money. Hmm, what's more important, a shiny rock on your finger, or a house?
On a related note, I'm getting married on Sept 7th, check out the web site.
http://www.sethb.com/wedding/ [sethb.com]
Now that's a geeky thing to do, have all your wedding info online.
Re:alternatives? (Score:4, Insightful)
I used to think like this. Until I met the girl I wanted to marry. Turns out she wanted a diamond ring . . . . . . . . what can you do? You don't kick out someone who you are in love with becasue they want a diamond engagement ring. I don't speak for all women here, but something I have noticed is that many women need to be habitualy reminded that you think about them, and most of them have been trained to expect gifts as a sign of thoughtfullness. Its pretty sad from my point of view, but when you care about someone, and they end up feeling like you don't think about them enough, precicely becasue you don't give them any material signs of affection . . . well then you start buying things for them. In most cases, sitting them down and explaining that you don't think that way will make no difference to them. Don't try to understand it, they are women.
Opals (Score:4, Informative)
Try Emeralds (Score:4, Informative)
Emeralds are actually more rare than diamonds, and so are worth more.
Re:Try Emeralds (Score:3, Funny)
Value, worth, social pressures, and traditions are all arbitrary. Decide if you're someone who likes to go along or rebel or somewhere in between, then get on with your life.
You know, it's just too easy (Score:5, Funny)
Girlfriends?
Marriage?
This has to be some sort of hoax. Is it April already?
Re:You know, it's just too easy (Score:5, Funny)
Just wait for five years until the Slashdot generation starts having kids. You'll be seeing stories about baby formulae and disposable diapers.
Terrorism vs. Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
What percentage of gas sales do you think finance terrorism? Money goes from our hands to the gas companies to oil companies in the Mid-East to (possibly) terrorist organizations. Probably true about many other products as well...
Easy alternative (Score:5, Funny)
How can they have no resale value? (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree with most of your other points about the disgusting practices used to produce diamonds and market them.
Ever been to an estate sale? (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, if DeBeers ever falls apart, diamonds will be worth about as much as it costs to put and polish them.
Re:How can they have no resale value? (Score:5, Insightful)
One word: liquidity (Score:5, Insightful)
The used diamond market isn't like the used car market, where the resale value drops as soon as you drive your shiny new Mustang off the lot. That is, it's not that market prices are low -- it's that there is no market. Because De Beers has created the impression that diamonds are priceless (if not in monetary value, then in sentimental value), almost no one sells their used diamonds. And because no one sells them, no one expects to buy them either. This has completely eliminated the secondary market for diamonds -- outside of shady outfits like pawn shops, which can hardly be considered bastions of "fair market value".
The total lack of liquidity in the used diamond market means that De Beers can continue to have complete control over prices. Why is stifling liquidity just as important as stifling competition? Look at what happened to hardware companies like Cisco when the Internet bubble burst. As if it weren't bad enough that Cisco lost customers, they found that prospective customers were buying cheap, lightly used hardware off the dot-bombs at fire sale prices instead of from Cisco. This is even more important for De Beers, since a diamond has a considerably longer usable life than a router. The moral of the story: if you want to sell your product to everyone at ridiculous prices, without screwing yourself in the future by saturating the market with resalable goods, then do exactly what De Beers has done.
Cheers,
IT
Re:How can they have no resale value? (Score:5, Interesting)
Better yet, see if you can somebody to refer you to a diamond wholesaler. They save you a bundle, and the person who refered you will get a small kickback as a referer's fee. I got my diamond for wholesale, and because the jeweler recommended me, he ended up applying the referer's fee to the price of the ring. Result? The ring appraised the next day for almost double what I paid for it.
Re:How can they have no resale value? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:How can they have no resale value? (Score:4, Funny)
Sound like a good description of the marriage proposal process.
Two Words: (Score:5, Interesting)
I gave my wife a pretty cool engagement ring from an antique jewelry outfit. Sure, it's 2nd hand, but it has the personality and it doesn't get crazy as far as prices go either.
Purpose of Article? (Score:3, Insightful)
As for the tagged on question at the end, have you considered your fiance-to-be's birth stone? My grandmother had a beautiful ruby and silver engagement ring. If you're not looking for a ring, then it really depends on how much a traditionalist your girlfriend is. Just whatever you do, if you're going to skip the ring option, don't try to weasel out with something less than the cost of a diamond ring, or it's likely she'll suspect that money was the real motivation.
Canadian diamonds (Score:5, Informative)
They're called Polar Bear Diamonds.
Re:Canadian diamonds (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.siriusdiamonds.com/ [siriusdiamonds.com]
Fuck tradition (Score:5, Insightful)
My girlfriend told me not to WASTE our money and instead we spent three crazy weeks in Hawaii AND had money in the bank.
God I love her!
The Gods Must Be Crazy (Score:4, Insightful)
My wife is Japanese, and we didn't have to go through ANY of this lame b.s. We got married in Japan without a stadium-sized crowd and did a tea ceremony. There were no "trinkets" exchanged, only love expressed through ACTION. Now I'm all for diamond rings as a gift, or to show appreciation, but if a woman requires a ring for engagement - if it takes a manmade little rock and metal craft to make her smile, then her heart is in the wrong place.
Re:Fuck tradition (Score:3, Insightful)
2) $2000 x compound interest x 70 years.... if she is alive, she can have a lot better than a piece of metal and a mineral all but worthless except in certain industrial applications.
3) For some people, experiences are more important than things.
For others, who live in a world where the diamond mythos looms large and in which they will be constantly judged by diamond size (both husband and wife, yes), well, maybe the diamond is worth it.
diamond sponsored terrorism (Score:5, Funny)
Re:diamond sponsored terrorism (Score:5, Funny)
"I helped blow up a fireman's dog - by driving my SUV!"
Show on Nova last week! (Score:5, Informative)
currently Gemesis [gemesis.com] is America's primary manufacturer. They are building a $25m factory for making better/ different colored diamonds. Currently they can make yellow ones, though the show showed clear, and fanciful colored ones (in testing it seems).
They are "real" diamonds, pretty much seeded carbon crystal. Any gemologist can likely tell you they are real diamond, albeit manufactured. AFAIK the cost is a little higher, if not compriable for now.
Most women aren't nearly so shallow (Score:4, Funny)
Get a GIANT phoney and she can still brag/lie to her family/friends and secretly feel morally superior.
Do you two talk to each other? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Do you two talk to each other? (Score:4, Funny)
It's not worth taking the risk.
Re:Do you two talk to each other? (Score:4, Funny)
I am a very practical person who sees such things as being symbols pointing to something much greater. Whenever I see those "A diamond is forever" commercials, I think "So 6 months' salary saved towards a house!"
A tatoo on your ass, now THAT lasts forever!
As it turned out, she felt the same way, so we took a route that was appropriate.
I think it is helpful to just establish what her hopes are related to this(real hopes, not what she thinks she should say) and what your real reservations are...then explore options that make both of you honestly happy. If this is an important issue to both of you, then compromising becomes a lose-lose situation and will pop up to bite one of you two later. Indeed, compromise is only acceptable if one of you turns out not to care all *that* much about the issue....a helpful tip to remember.
My girlfriend and I once fought about an issue for 18 months before finding a win-win solution.....mainly because if one of us compromised it would have haunted us later.
As far as win-win possibilities go, antique jewelry is a wonderful way to go. All of the jewelry will have a history and story related to it, and may cost less than "new" jewelry.
Also perhaps visiting a jeweler to discuss other gemstones would be helpful. My mother (a collector) showed me "Mystic Pink Topaz" the other day. It's an absolutely beautiful rose colored gem that seems to yank the light right out of the air and sparkle with blues, greens, purples, etc.
Good luck with the ring, the relationship, etc etc etc.
Re:Do you two talk to each other? (Score:5, Funny)
As it turned out, she felt the same way, so we took a route that was appropriate."
Now, I have to ask... Did you really intend to write those two sentences together?
Imitation? (Score:3, Insightful)
Progress in synthetics (Score:5, Informative)
A good account of the state of the art two years ago can be found in the transcript of a NOVA show on diamond synthesis: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2703diamo nd.html [pbs.org]
One answer, eh? Ethical Canadian Diamonds (Score:4, Informative)
to quote: Canadian diamonds treasured by the worlds diamond experts. Sought after for their incredible beauty and brilliance. Mined in accordance to the highest ethical standards.
I believe everything I read on the Internet, of course, but hey, worth a look - especially if you want to REALLY surprise her with the kneeling and the asking and the whatnot.
My wife is cool (Score:4, Interesting)
Seeing as how I had no idea how to pick a ring, I bought a $20 engagement ring for my wife. When I proposed I gave it to her and told her it was a symbol and that we could pick the ring of her choice for her. She refused and said she didn't want any other ring. She said that was the ring I gave to her and it was the most beautiful ring in the world.
Not just advertising... (Score:5, Informative)
Premarital sex was not invented in the 1960s, and has in fact been around ever since just before the first marriage. Of course, back in the good old days, a good girl would never have sex before wedlock. However, some were willing to bend the rules once they were engaged. So, men quickly discovered that you could ask a woman to marry you, have sex with her, and then break off the engagement.
Up until 1935, this was considered an actionable tort in 47 of the 48 states. A woman who was deceived in this way could sue for the value of her lost virginity and subsequent difficulty in acquiring a husband. State legislatures passed laws against these suits in the 1930s and 1940s.
So, after this ability was removed, women needed a new way to ensure that a man proposing marriage really meant it. It became social custom that a man asking for marriage would post a performance bond equivalent to about twice his monthly salary. This bond would be forfeitable upon his breaking off of the engagement, but returnable if she broke off the engagement. This 'bond' was implemented as a diamond ring, because it was an easy way to, er, 'crystalize' two months of his salary in an easy-to-handle package.
In essence, the engagement ring is a private reimplementation of a canceled government policy.
Buy used (Score:3, Interesting)
Or am I being hopelessly naive somehow? (it wouldn't be the first time
Reset a family heirloom (Score:3, Interesting)
You can always get another stone as well. There is no rule that says it has to be a diamond. The first engagement ring I bought, several years ago, was a created sapphire. There are many semi-precious stones out there that are quite beautiful. Depending on your girlfriend's preferences, you may have a lot of options.
Having said that, if she wants a diamond, then it's worth it to get it. Just keep in mind that you don't need an internally flawless diamond. A VVS1 or 2 will do just fine, and a VS1 or 2 is going to be OK too. As you have noted, diamonds really don't have a resale value, and how many people are going to be looking at it through a scppe after you purchase it? Same goes for color. Get a G-H, or F. And as for the carats, you'll pay a bit less if you stay just under the round numbers, so
The one thing you really want to make sure is excellent is the cut. This is something you want to be as close to ideal as possible. A friend of mine recently got married, and her well-off husband got her a rather large diamond for her engagement ring. When I looked at it, I was horribly underwhelmed. It was a poor cut, and reflected very little light. It looked flat. And this is not a man that I would have expected to miss the details.
I know you know the 4 Cs, but it's always worth repeating, and elaborating on how to get a better deal using what you know.
-Todd
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?!! (Score:5, Funny)
You are a nerd with a girlfriend.
Most of the people here rarely talk to girls (no, its not flamebait; im one of them), let alone marry them! Buy her a diamond ring you idiot!
Don't be a moron (Score:3, Insightful)
Then BUY HER ONE!!!!!
I'm not married, but I am in a serious relationship and have been for about 4 years. I'm sure I'm not the first to tell you this, but if you love her, right now is not the best time to wage your anti-tradition diamond ban. You don't want to spend a ton? Buy a smaller diamond, you said yourself she will probably still want at least a small one.
And if resale value is a major concern, is this a person you really feel comfortable proposing to / marrying? Be sure before you buy the rock. And good luck!
Mark
Wrong Question (Score:5, Insightful)
Much like the megahertz myth, the need for a diamond engagement ring has been cultivated through careful marketing and peer pressure.
But.
The cost of NOT getting this diamond ring may be the relationship itself. It may not occur right away (she might still accept your proposal) but this will be a major disappointment to a woman who has had an engagement ring (or a rock as my ex-girlfriend called it), and it just might set the tone for the rest of your time together.
As has been pointed out elsehwhere in this very thread, gasoline, diamonds, honey, opium, and a whole bunch of other products all contribute to terrorism or cruel treatment of our fellow humans or various other badnesses in the world.
In the end, though, it will be infinitely easier to get a fuel-efficient car and switch away from various other products than it will be to alter the mindset of the woman (and ALL of her friends) who considers not where it came from or how it got there, but merely that it is on her finger.
So, if you want to get married and start of on the right foot with her, you should of course shop for the best value you can find in your budget and so on, but yes, the diamond is worth it.
[save your energy... cede her victory on this one, fight the good fight when she wants to know why you are "wasting" so much money on a cable modem/DSL, fast graphics cards, etc.]
Re:Wrong Question (Score:5, Insightful)
If someone is SO materialistic so as to BREAK OFF a relationship that is leading to marriage just because they don't get a diamond ring, then there's a decent chance that they're probably not worth the relationship in the first place.
I happen to really believe in commitment, and someone who would break off a relationship that is that serious for a reason such as this, just doesn't seem like they are committed to the relationship themselves.
Yes - you need to get one. (Score:5, Insightful)
But basically, unless you pass the following test, I suspect that deep down you are looking for an excuse to be cheap:
Unless you do all of those things, I would posit that you are already contributing to unethical behavior with your participation in commerce. If you do do all those things, and your g/f isn't open to the no diamond idea although she will jump through those hoops, then she is being hypocritical.
I say buy her the diamond and have a wonderful life together. Coming from a happily engaged man (who both bought and used inheritted diamonds)
Re:Yes - you need to get one. (Score:5, Funny)
(snip snip)
If you answer 'yes' to any one of the following questions, you must also be cheap:
- I like to pay extraordinary amounts of money for products of inferior quality.
- I enjoy pissing away thousands of dollars on a piece of jewelry that is kept artificially overvalued.
- I love being at the mercy of international jewel cartels.
- I like getting ripped off.
I Got my wife a Tree (Score:5, Insightful)
Our wedding was under the tree. We are planning to buy a bench to place under the tree as soon as the city allows.
Yes, it's worth it. (Score:3, Insightful)
I know there are some people who go for the alternative side. We certainly like to try to spend our money in ways that have the most benefit.
The principle behind the diamond is to symbolize your commitment. You're telling her that you want to spend the rest of your life with her. Resale value? Are you sure that marriage is the right next step? Perhaps there are some more conversations to have.
I've been proudly and happily married to the love of my life for almost 2 years.
Better quality diamonds are able to be man made for cheaper. But, a good jeweler won't serve them. Volunteer to make up for your conscience. Show your love by finding a good jeweler, being honest, and buying what she deserves. First, find out why you're worrying about resale value and take care of it.
Buy a Canadian Diamond (Score:3)
Of course, that doesn't help if you think we are being force-fed a useless commodity.
For that, go for a small diamond set with other stones (rubies, emeralds, etc). Or go for a small ring and get a pearl necklace.
Or go to your mother and see if she has any jewelry that she would donate and that you could have remade into an engagement ring.
My mother passed away four years before I got engaged. My sister inherited her large jewelry selection, but honoured my mother's request that my brother and I be able to pick out a ring for our future spouses.
Style (Score:3, Insightful)
I was lucky. I married someone for whom funky stuff like integrity, thought, consideration, selflessness, originality were priorities. To her, the traditional goal of "it must be so big I can't lift my hand" was tacky, ostentatious, gaudy, all the hallmarks of a wannabe who needed validation from outside, rather than someone looking for something that had significance simply for what it was.
The end result for us was a third of a carat rub over setting on a really unique band. For her, it's perfect as it comes across as stylish, vastly more sophisticated and, her highest priority, she doesn't spend the rest of her life being scared of knocking a large rock out of a cheap setting.
I still managed to spend a fair bit of money, but that was on: getting it engraved (without her knowing) on the inside; on getting it rush ordered so I could still suprise her, even though we'd chosen it together; on finding the perfect time and place to do the proposing; on getting matching earings made to go with it. Those are all the subtle things that allowed me to put vastly more value in to it for her without buying in to a deliberate, tacky, hype.
So, like I said, it depends a lot on who you're marrying. If the biggest, gaudiest rock is simply the only way to feel she's valued, that's what you should get her - you chose that type of person. If style and the suble touches are what're important, congratulations, you've found someone who's going to appreciate everything you do for her, regardless of how well off you are at the time. That is the kind of woman I wanted to marry. :)
OK, now lets get back to bitching about Microsoft. This is getting sappy!
Diamonds aren't this girl's best friend (Score:5, Interesting)
When Richie and I got engaged, it was back in the day when South Africa was ruled by the Apartheid regime and Nelson Mandela had been doing time for longer than I had been alive. I told him "no diamonds." We went to a local lapidary shop where they had many different options for stones and picked out a sterling silver setting for it. I chose a diamond-cut quartz crystal. It was beautiful, the ring didn't cost much at all, and after someone assembled it Richie proposed to me in front of everyone in the store. Got on one knee and everything. Priceless. Everyone applauded.
However, that ring was short lived. I don't remember exactly how I did it, but the ring's setting got bent and I lost the stone. It lasted only a few months.
Next, sometime around Christmas that year, there were several small jewelry carts that set up in the local mall. One had a ring with a great-looking amethyst point mounted on it. Not too expensive, looked cool. We grabbed it. The ring lasted for about a year before the amethyst point worked its way loose. I Krazy-glued it in and it stayed in for a few weeks more before I lost it for good.
Richie was upset, I was bummed. Two rings given, two down. I decided the next replacement for the engagement ring would not have a stone, tradition be damned.
That next summer I found a sterling silver Claddagh ring. Traditional Irish love token. Symbol from pre-Christian times. Very appropriate. Very cool. I've had it ever since.
Anyway, even with Apartheid over, I wouldn't touch diamonds if they were...well, diamonds. For one thing, I'm not crazy about them aesthetically. I'd rather have a blue topaz or a sapphire or a ruby or emerald or even better, a fire opal. For another thing, unless you can make darn sure where you are getting them from, you could get them from terrorists or Russian mafiosos or any number of other unsavory folks.
And most importantly...I would rather spend my money on geeky stuff. Save that money and get something I really want...like a DVD-RW or a Radeon AIW 8500 video card.
If your intended is a geek grrl, get her something she'll really want. If she isn't...well...maybe that diamond is kinda mandatory. Check up on the provenance of that rock...there are Canadian stones from the Yukon Territory strike that have a polar bear etched next to the laser-inscribed ID. There's nothing morally reprehensible about the Canadians, last time I checked.
figures (Score:4, Interesting)
-a
Just tell her I said, (Score:5, Funny)
"BTW, I re-partioned your PC, got rid of Windows, and set you up with free BSD and a Tesla coil."
"Honey? Honey?"
lessons from my family (Score:5, Interesting)
Some personal perspective on the issue:
That isn't very many data points, but I think the lesson is that if the ring selection is more of a personal investment than a shopping effort, it's a good sign. Sure, the ring should have some durable value, but anyone who says only diamonds have value as a symbol of love needs to ponder on the primary practical use of diamonds: an abrasive.
Jon
The Atlantic article is really interesting (Score:5, Informative)
One ring to tule them all... (Score:5, Funny)
This ring is guaranteed to last for all eternity, and will grant countless powers as well as being a pledge of your ever lasting and eternal love. When my grandfather first forged this ring in ages past, he made it to last, and it has certainly stood the test of time. What better way of telling that special someone "This is going to last forever?"
Supplies are EXTREMELY limited, so hurry on in, or email DarkLord@mordor.org for this and other wonderful items.
Something I saw posted... (Score:5, Funny)
Actual conversation between me and my girlfriend:
Me: If we get engaged, don't expect much in the way of a ring. I'm pretty broke.
Her: It's OK. I don't need a very expensive ring.
Me [uneasy at the qualifier "very"]:
Her: Yes, it was beautiful! I'd love to have a ring like that!
Me:
Her: Don't be silly. I wouldn't want more than you could afford.
Me: Define "afford."
Her: Two months' salary is normal.
Me [calculating]: Um... wow. That would be, like, $4000. That's a lot.
Her: Gross, dear, not net. It would be more like $6000.
Me: Who makes up these rules?
Her: That's just the custom, honey.
Me: You know that's just a marketing gimmick started by the diamond cartels around the turn of the century, don't you?
Her: Silly. I don't need an expensive ring.
Me: The conversation up to this point notwithstanding?
Her: Two months' salary is normal. It's not expensive.
Me: So if you found, say, $6000 worth of computer hardware on our joint credit card, I could say "Hey, that's not expensive; it's just what computers cost!"
Her: That's different. That would be just for you. The ring is for both of us.
Me: So I get to wear this ring part of the time?
Her: Silly. The ring shows everyone how much you love me.
Me: And what shows everyone how much you love me?
Her: The ring.
Me: Do you see a certain asymmetry in this arrangement?
Her: You should be proud that everyone sees me wearing your ring. It tells the world how much you value me.
Me: Approximately $6000 worth, apparently. Does this mean that rich men value their wives more than poor men?
Her: No. It's two months' salary for everyone.
Me: Ah, so wives are priced on a sliding scale, then, like low-income housing?
Her: I wouldn't put it that way.
Me: How would you put it?
Her: A little money is a small price to pay for something that lasts forever.
Me: You lifted that directly from a jewelery commercial.
Her: That doesn't make it untrue.
Me: Touché.
Her: Look, if you live to be 80...
Me: I don't like that "if."
Her [ignoring me]:
Me: I'm alarmed at how quickly you arrived at that number.
Her [ignoring me]: $130 a year isn't so much for my love, is it?
Me: Well, it's a good deal cheaper than escort services.... OW! OW! Quit hitting; I'm driving here!
Her: You get a lot more from this relationship than sex.
Me: Yeah, the contusions make it all worthwhile.
Her: Baby.
Me: Y'know, this actually works out better for you if I die early. Your yearly value increases inversely to the length of my life. If I only live to 50....
Her: I'm tired of talking about this.
Me: That's because you're losing.
Her: I'm not losing. We're not competing. You told me you couldn't afford an expensive ring, and I said that was OK.
Me: Ah, so it's the "affording" part that's irrelevant.
Her: Stop being so silly. I've bought jewelry on credit before; it's no big deal.
Me: That's the solution!
Her: What is?
Me: You buy the ring.
Her: That's not how it works, honey.
Me: If people look at the ring to see how much I love you, wouldn't it make sense to get the most expensive ring available? You've got better credit than me, so....
Her: But the point is for you to buy it, so people can see how much you value me.
Me: How are people going to know who bought it? Do the salespeople engrave the credit card holder's name on the band?
Her: I'll know.
Me: Well, yes, that's a given.
Her: I'll know you didn't want to pay for my ring.
Me: I thought we'd established that.
Her: I'm tired of talking about this. Forget it.
Me: I'm trying to understand, really. We're supposed to have a token of our love, right?
Her: Whatever. Right.
Me: This token is something you would want anyway, a piece of jewelry.
Her: Honey...
Me: Bear with me. The token is sized for you, presumably styled the way I think you'd like it...
Her: Actually, I get to pick it out.
Me: Even better for my purposes. So the token is styled just for you, sized so only you can wear it. You keep it with you always. Do we both own it?
Her: No, the bride owns the ring always.
Me: OK. So you get a ring that may or may not be expensive, depending on your definition, which is your exclusive property to do with as you please. I get to pay for it. Remember what I said about asymmetry?
Her: So you want a ring?
Me: No. To be symmetrical, it would have to be something I want. A laptop, for instance.
Her: You want an engagement laptop?
Me: That's just an example.
Her: That's not parallel. Computers depreciate; good jewelry doesn't.
Me: Good point. I guess there's no such thing as a ring upgrade.
Her: Actually, they make these things called "sleeves" which you buy for major anniversaries....
Me: Dude, I'm gettin' a Dell!
Re:Something I saw posted... (Score:5, Funny)
Scene: a chalet bedroom, 3am.
Her: Do you love me?
Me: Wha? Who? Whassamatta?
Her: Are you asleep?
Me: Have we not already established the futility of asking that question?
Her: So you don't love me?
Me: What? Start over.
Her: I asked if you love me and you said it was a futile question.
Me: No, asking "Are you asleep?" is a futile question.
Her: Why?
Me: Either I am, in which case I can't hear you, or I'm not, in which case you can go ahead and talk to me without asking if I am. The question itself is pointless.
Her: But if you answer it, I know you're awake.
Me: But you want to know if I'm awake for a reason, right? You want to ask another question, right?
Her: Right.
Me: So why not just ask it? If I'm awake, I'll answer. If not, I won't. Same thing, fewer questions.
Her: So asking if you're awake is inefficient?
Me: Exactly.
Her: I wasn't aware efficiency is a concern in conversation.
Me: Efficiency is always a concern.
Her: So why do you leave the seat up?
Me: Clarify.
Her: Why do you leave the toilet seat up? I always need it down, and you need it down 50% of the time. Efficiency would require leaving it down as a matter of practice.
Me: True.
Her: So why doesn't efficiency govern your behavior in the bathroom?
Me: I'm a hypocrite.
Her: That's a defense for anything.
Me: Clarify.
Her: Committing to a principle means abiding by its consequences. If you adopt rules in one situation, but ignore the implications of those rules in another...
Me: I'm a hypocrite.
Her: Exactly.
Me: But I admitted that.
Her: That obviates the utility of adopting rules in the first place. If you can wiggle out of anything by acknowledging hypocrisy, I could kill you and justify it by saying, "Well, I don't believe in killing people, but I'm a murderer."
Me: That's interesting.
Her: That's what you say when you can't think of anything else to say.
Me: What?
Her: "That's interesting." Then you say "What?" when I call you on it.
Me: You wanted something when this conversation started, didn't you?
Her:
Me: Your critique is merely descriptive, and therefore trivial. I know what I do. Stating it as if you've caught me at something scores you no points.
Her: I just wanted you to know I'm not fooled.
Me: Noted. Now, was there some other question?
Her: Do you love me?
Me: I believe the fact we were just married should answer that question adequately.
Her: Lots of married people don't love each other.
Me: True. I do love you, as it happens.
Her: Thank you.
Me: Wanna have sex?
Her: It's less fun now that it's legal.
Me: Is that a "no"?
Her: No.
Advice from a /. chick! (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Even the most progressive feminist can sometimes be profoundly cliche'd when thinking about marriage. Our society teaches and reinforces strong ideas and imagery around weddings and marriage from a very early age -- heterosexual women are steeped in cultural tradition around marriage. It's hard to fight decades of "this is every girl's dream".
2. If she wants a diamond, get her a diamond. Don't make her spend the next 50 years of her life looking down at her hand and thinking, "Instead of a diamond ring, I got a symbol of his political and social stance."
3. If you don't want to support new diamond sales, consider estate jewelry. For a reasonable price, you can buy a ring that has a sense of history to it, that is a beautiful thing, and is less charged with the modern baggage. For that matter, an estate jewelry specialist can also help you make the choice. Talk to a pro! Explain you want something beautiful and unique, that you want to spend X dollars, etc.
4. If you decide not to go with the diamond, give your bride-to-be *positive* language around your choice. Don't get her a different kind of ring because you don't like the social ramifications of diamond mining -- get her a different kind of ring because you don't feel a run-of-the mill diamond ring accurately reflects the special and unique qualities in her and in your relationship.
5. Don't use not getting a diamond as an excuse to skimp on the cost. Buying a 300.00 ring instead of a 3000.00 ring 'because diamonds are tainted with the blood of workers' says you were looking for an excuse to be cheap. It's not about the money, but it's not just the thought that counts, either.
6. Size *does* matter, but it cuts both ways. Dicks *and* diamonds can both be tooooo big.
Re:Advice from a /. chick! (Score:4, Insightful)
Do I deserve a car, or ring, or anything else because we're getting married? Do I really deserve anything more than love, respect, and honesty? Have I somehow earned something more? What have I paid for it, what have I put into the relationship that demands more than what I'm already getting? I think the real question to be asking here is, "Why do I need this ring? What does it mean?" Think about that, and let me know what your answer is. (BTW, I don't consider spending money for its own sake a worthwhile reason. I consider it flamboyant, vain, and ultimately destructive.)
And frankly, if the love of my life got me a present based on her political stance, then considering the fact that I was planning on marrying this woman, and that I must already be happy with her views, I would be deeply honored.
If you decide to go down this road, then I applaud the creativity of this suggestion. Positive language is important. But please don't tell me how to feel, or what I may like or dislike, or by what reasons I am allowed to act. No one has that right. When I buy something, I trade my money, the exchange for the fruits of my labor, for the fruits of someone else's. The amount I'm willing to pay depends on how much value I think I'm getting from the transaction. What value am I getting from this purchase?Furthermore, I don't put a price-tag on emotions, since they are no one's to buy or sell. My love for any woman isn't worth $300, $3000, or $3,000,000. It's priceless, because it's mine, and mine alone. And if it's not the thought that counts, is it the money? Is it the prestige? If I spent the aforementioned $3,000,000 on a diamond ring, would the woman I gave it to love me any more than if I spent $300? If so, she's no one I'd want to marry.
Agreed, on both counts.Best Form of Carbon (Score:5, Funny)
According to a friend's chemistry professor, diamonds are a rip-off anyway. The crystaline structure of the carbon atoms in diamonds isn't the most stable form of carbon. Apparently, diamonds aren't really "forever," they're only for a few billion years. Now graphite, on the other hand, now that's forever! (Or at least a lot closer!)
So buy her some pencil lead, and maybe one of those cool, high-dollar mechanical pencils to go with it!
(Disclaimer: I assume no responsibility for any bodily harm that may result from following this advice. I, myself, am happily married, and if you tell my wife I said this, I'll deny it.)
love and devotion (Score:5, Interesting)
She loved it, because of what it represented. She knew I had more prospects than money, and she was able to see the ring for what it meant, rather than what it was composed of chemically. She told me that she was glad I hadn't blown a ton of dough on a big ring I couldn't really afford, because she didn't want to start our married life in debt for something that wouldn't add to quality of life the way a car, house, blender, etc. would. Our wedding was great, our marriage has been wonderful. I would be a shabby imitation of myself if I didn't have her in my life.
She got a lot of really great reactions to the ring, surprisingly. A red stone for an engagement ring is unusual enough to be eye-catching. It's a dark red garnet, and a lot of people asked if it was a ruby. She's not ashamed of her ring, and always told them that it's a garnet, a semi-precious stone. I suppose there's a certain cache in that, a ring who's value is so purely symbolic, because she often saw women with big diamond rings in platinum settings get jealous.
We've been married 11 years, now. Our third child, a little girl, was born 8 weeks ago, and our two boys are bright, energetic, handsome kids. Our love is flourishing. As for the ring, my wife accidentally dropped it over the railing from the third tier at Wrigley Field a month after we were married, still not used to wearing it. By some miracle, we found it on the pavement outside the park; one of the prongs holding the garnet in place got bent, but the stone was OK. After a few years, the thin gold band was wearing through, and the bent prong would catch on fabric, and she had to be really careful with it. For our 5 year anniversary, I suggested we get her a higher quality ring. OK, but she wouldn't hear of replacing her garnet. We had the stone reset in a better quality band, flanked with a pair of small diamonds. We'd saved up some money, despite both of us being in graduate school at that point, and went with diamonds for an aesthic reason - they set off the garnet and made it appear even more dark and lustrous.
When I finished my PhD, and got a postdoc position, with my first salary that didn't start with a "1", I wanted to adorne my wife, to gild the lily, give her something beatuiful and extravagant and utterly impractical, to make up for the years of more practical and useful gifts. She selected small diamond stud earrings... because our new baby boy kept grabbing at the long, dangling earrings she typically wore. Sensible, even in her extravagances. What a wife.
I got a real job three years ago, and we moved and bought a house. For our 10th anniversary, we were still broke from buying the house. For our 11th anniversary, our 4-week old baby let us sleep for 6 hours straight. It was wonderful. After a few raises and promotions, I've got some money now. I suggested to my wife that we get her some more jewelry, maybe some rubies or emeralds to set off her eyes. With a kiss and a hug, she handed me a stack of brochures about savings plans for college tuition, and said that there were more important things. What a wife.
With 300+ comments already attached to this
Agreed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The Answer (Score:5, Funny)
To all the replies that say that diamonds should be bought she replied "Whipped!" "That one's whipped too!"
Re:They missed the best selling point! (Score:5, Funny)
You wish you could make your girlfriend QUIET.
=)
Re:The Answer (Score:5, Insightful)
They're only worth the cost if they make her happy.
But then, the focus should be on what can you do to please the woman you love, not whether you can or should afford to buy things she may not even care about.
Me, I think the whole diamond=love thing is bullshit. Want your woman/man to know you love her/him? Don't fuck around; don't lie; pay attention and listen; be free with the compliments and sparse with criticism.
Oh, and because this is
Re:The Answer WTF (Score:5, Insightful)
Further more, do you think there is some correlation between the relative size of the diamond to marital success - I think not. I would even guess there might be a negative correlation.
When I got married I felt pressured (form others not my wife) to my a diamond. Recently after reading stories of chopped limbs, rape, child conscription, guerrilla warfare, etc. orginating in the major diamond producing areas of the world we decided to sell the diamond and donate the money to a charity working in Sierra Leone.
Just do a google search on "Conflict Diamonds"
Re:The Answer (Score:4, Funny)
Think about it... Made in Canada by skilled craftsmen and it will last an eternity. Get aircraft grade for extra strength. Sure you can wimp out and get one with a diamond, or gold and support the slave labor in hotter than hell diamond pits n Africa, but why?
http://www.titaniumrings.com
SR-71, Spacecraft, Mountain Bikes frames, Medical Tranplants. Modern man always uses Titanium where it counts. Put it on your girlfriends finger today!
Material Science Ignorance (Score:4, Informative)
Dude, I don't want to make you sound stupid or anything, but the lack of information about materials out there is astonishing. It really bothers me. I feel obligated to straighten out your misconseptions. After all we don't want the misinformation you spread to spread too far.
So let me start with the hardness issue:
The hardest materials known to material science today are ceramics, and your right, diamond is at the very top of the list. Now anyone whos taken a material science course at college should know that hardness is closly related to tensile strength. Now here are the tensile strength values for both diamond and top of the line titanium alloys (note these are approximations):
Strength(diamond) ~ 8000-10,000 MPA
Strength(titanium) ~ 1000 MPA.
As you can see, diamond is ten time stronger than titanium and therefore ~ ten times harder.
Its 3 times stronger than steel and half the weight.
Really? I don't think so buddy, good steel is actually stronger than titanium. These are the figures for the hardest possible steel and hardest possible titanium alloy (approximate):
Strength(titanium) ~ 1000 MPA
Strength(steel) ~ 1900 MPA
You are almost correct about the weight:
Density(titantium) ~ 5 MG/m^3
Density(steel) ~ 7.5 MG/m^3
If you want to be anal about it, the weight titantion is 3/4 the weight of steel and not 1/2
Anyway, it's alright... not everyone's a mechanical engineer out there.
"Ah yes, another problem that can be solved by bending"
High tensile bolt cutters (Score:4, Funny)
Besides, it's motivation to stay trim taut 'n' terrific, isn't it? (-:
He could always be proactive and fatten her up before the wedding, before sizing the ring...
Re:The Answer (Score:5, Funny)
And some additional tips.
-You better remember each and every anniversary. When you met, the first date, when you proposed and yeah, when you got committed (I got hitched on 50th anniversary of Pearl Harbor, so the news gives me a tip off, lest I forget)
-Birthdays. Its ok to forget age. Or at least preface it with "well you don't look a day over".
-Valentines day. A biggie. Plan ahead. They can spot last minute shopping efforts a mile away. A six pack and a candy bar don't cut it.
-And practice your responses to the following: Do I look fat? Do you still love me? What are you thinking? Do you think she's good looking? A moments hesitation will land you in the dog house.
Good luck on your incarceration.
Let's give this some thought (Score:4, Insightful)
This is a threat, and a scare tactic, pure and simple. In the society of the United States, in dating, the man has innumerable responsibilities which mostly involve spending money, whereas the woman has nearly none. Diamond dealers, and you, Chester K, want me to believe that if I don't buy a diamond, I'll be in big trouble with my lady friend, and maybe I don't even love her. But just to be fair, let me see if I follow your "logic."
*Are you a Star Wars fan? If so, then every single piece of star wars crap [imdb.com] ever marketed is worth the cost.
*Are you a Catholic? If so, then you agree that the Jews needed to be tortured to death during the Spanish Inquisition.
If it were true that buying a diamond (hereafter referred to as "clear carbon crystal") is a necessary part of loving a woman, then I would by all means buy her a diamond.
And even though I'm not necessarily brainwashed, if it were true that in order to convince a woman that I loved her, I had to buy her a diamond, I might still do it. But if she's that stupid/stubborn, I might have trouble falling in love with her.
And let's be fair - it is by no means human nature to spend a maybe a month of your life working purely for a tiny chunk of otherwise-worthless, not-so-rare rock because if you don't your supposed life partner will think you don't like her. Even in western cultures, that particular superstition is fairly recent. In Africa, or Japan, or South America, the two notions are not connected at all. In some countries, it is customary for the parents of the woman to pay a dowry to the family of the man, and vice versa in others.
I am willing to do things that I don't think make sense, for the sake of my girlfriend, even if she doesn't reciprocate (and it sure seems like women aren't expected to do so). I'd buy her flowers, or greeting cards. But if she needs a sizeable chunk of my net worth to be wasted just to believe I love her, then maybe she has trust issues - and if not, if people really do need that kind of proof, why hasn't she spent several grand on me? Why hasn't the sexism whistle been blown on this one, now that every instance of the word "mankind" has to be changed to "humankind," and "woman" is often spelled "womyn" to avoid the word "man?"
Sigh. I have a lot of frustration with the way dating works around here.
Re:Let's give this some thought (Score:5, Insightful)
Have you ever been in love?
I'm stupid in love with this girl. Have been for years. And she loves me back. I know this because of all those times that she didn't kill me, even though I deserved it.
I can make her happy. I'm not quite sure why, but for some reason I have this ability. And nothing in the world feels better than making her happy. Period.
I also have opinions about politics and human rights and whatnot. But-- sorry to be so frank-- all of that stuff takes a back seat to making my best girl happy. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite, maybe it makes me a bad person. But that's simply the way it is. I would do anything to put a smile on her face.
So I bought her a ring. I proposed to her with an empty box from the upscale jeweler in my town-- which caught her off-guard, until she read the card that said we had an appointment to pick out a ring the next morning. We went there and spent about three hours looking at rings. Myself, I couldn't have cared less. They all looked the same to me. But she loved it. Just looking was the biggest thrill for her.
When she picked one that she liked, I bought it. Didn't even ask how much it cost. (Of course, I'd gone over all that stuff with the jeweler the previous day, so he knew to only show us stuff that I could afford.)
You know something? I don't care how much it cost. I mean, I care, in the abstract sense. You don't drop five figures on something without noticing it, or at least people in my income bracket don't. But beyond the simple "do I have the money for this?" calculation, I don't care. I gave her something that made her face light up. That smile of hers is beyond price.
It was worth every penny.
I'm not saying that I'm absolutely right about this or that anybody else is absolutely wrong. I'm just saying that, in my case, money is a trivial and fleeting thing compared with my girl's happiness. I guess I just have a different set of priorities than yours.
That's all I have to say.
Re:apparently, an ugly rock == proof of love. (Score:5, Insightful)
You've never had a girlfriend, have you?
Look, women think differently than men on some issues, but you disregard that point of view only at your great peril. So fucking what if sending flowers is stupid? If it makes your girl feel loved, well, mission accomplished.
Don't be a goon.
Re:apparently, an ugly rock == proof of love. (Score:3, Funny)
The texturing isn't that great. Whoever made them should go back and redo the bump mapping. And a little anisotropy wouldn't hurt.
Re:apparently, an ugly rock == proof of love. (Score:4, Insightful)
Try this: buy some roses for her on any other day of the year. Not only will they be easier and cheaper to get, but I guarantee you she will be ten times happier with a spontaneous sign of affection. All you're really saying on Feb. 14 is "I got you these flowers because my television told me to." Any other day of the year, the message is "I was driving home from work when it hit me how much I love you, so I stopped off at the store and bought you some flowers."
exactly (Score:4, Funny)
So... Ms. casualgeorge... what are you doing this weekend?
There are other countries... (Score:5, Informative)
Where?
Canada.
What? Canada?
There are only Igloos and Eskimos (Inuit) up there, right?
Not so, there are also Polar Bears.
http://www.siriusdiamonds.com/home.htm
If you're Canadian, buy Canadian.
If you're American, buy North American.
Just a suggestion.
Re:The Answer (Score:5, Insightful)
Is this misplaced desire, partly formed by marketing hype and peer pressure? Yes. But so is my lust for say, a new BMW 5-series, or even the latest 2.6 GHz Pentium.
I spent a bunch on my wife's rock, which felt to me like 'wasted' money, but I have to say it's made her happy. Before you say she's all about the money though... she really isn't very materialistic at all, but getting that nice diamond really meant something to her. When the time came to spend money of other things, such as our wedding plans, or even when I ask her what she wants for a birthday gift, she is quite economical.
Beyond that, though, I also guess that over the course of our marriage, I'll probably spend ten times more on computer upgrades and other "toys" for myself (that she could care less about) as I will on jewelry for her (that I could care less about), so I guess I can't really complain! Probably it'd be the same for many other people here...I think that's something most of the techno-geeks here should keep in mind.
Indeed (Score:4, Funny)
Didn't want to fuel that whole "more time with the computer" thing you know
Great idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Absolutely. Be proud of those ethics so long as they don't really interfere with anything you care about.