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"Fastest Browser On Earth" Cuts Crud

Hemos posted more than 11 years ago | from the better-faster-go-faster-go dept.

The Internet 697

gabec writes "The guys at Opera have been rewriting their rendering engine over the past 18 months, tossing out legacy code and making the browser more DOM compliant with the intention of making the self-proclaimed "fastest browser on earth" even faster. They claim to have succeeded, according to this article on ZDNet.. Fun stuff.. ;)"

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697 comments

Fastest Bowser on Earth (0, Funny)

TheDick (453572) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112478)

More impressive.

Gotta stop mixing Dayquil and Nyquil.

Re:Fastest Bowser on Earth (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112524)

+2 informative? Oh yeah, mods on crack, it's well known!

P

The truth (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112479)

Mozilla > Opera.

Nothing will change that.

Re:The truth (1, Flamebait)

unicron (20286) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112497)

Actually, I.E. will always be the best browser. Say what you will about Microsoft, they make a damn fine internet browser.

Re:The truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112534)

Classic. SOmeone says "Mozilla is better" and get modded up, someone says "IE is better" and gets modded down.
Slashdot-think anyone?

Re:The truth (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112577)

Actually, both got modded down. Moron.

Re:The truth (1)

Piic (146932) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112596)

Well... it's one thing to say one is better and give concrete reasons, but to say one "will always be better" is pretty much Flaimbait. That's a pretty ludicrous claim, don't you think?

Re:The truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112639)

No it's not.

Mozilla IS better.

Denying it makes you ignorant.

Re:The truth (4, Funny)

unicron (20286) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112623)

Yeah, I love it. I'd probably laugh if it wasn't so pathetically sad. Everyone I know that actually runs Linux/Mozilla and knows what they're doing(i.e., not a 12 year who installed Redhat off a bootable CD and considers himself "a linux user") completely agrees that I.E. is a great browser.

What's also funny is the ammo mozilla/opera users use in their arguments:

I.E. user: The compatibility with today's plugins and scripting languages is unparalled.

Mozilla/Opera user: We have pop-up killing!

I.E. user: The image renderer is awesome.

Mozilla/Opera user: We have pop-up killing!

I.E. user: Not to mention that while an open standard is best, you will find most webpages catered to users running I.E.

Mozilla/Opera user: We have pop-up killing!

I.E. user: You got a lot of pop-ups, don't you?

Mozilla/Opera user: All day, everyday, wall to wall pr0n and warez sites.

I.E. user: My god....

Mozilla/Opera user: 1337!

Re:The truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112661)

Mozilla has more than just popup killing (Which fucking sucks in Opera)

The superior rendering engine
The superior tab system
The superior popup killing system
The superior interface
The superior memory managment
The superior mail/chat/news client

I could keep going on, but I don't spend more time than I need to on ignorant IE users.

Re:The truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112543)

Microsoft ain't much for Open Source, but they are for Open Holes. IE has so many holes in it with no patches or anything. Damn fine internet browser? Sorry, but no, you are wrong.

Re:The truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112544)

except for security bugs that let hackers root your system :) sarcasm

Re:The truth (5, Insightful)

SomeOtherGuy (179082) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112549)

Actually, I.E. will always be the best browser. Say what you will about Microsoft, they make a damn fine internet browser.

Damn fine until you realize you can't block popups or have tabs. But then again -- maybe I am the only one who does not liked popups and thinks 1 window is cleaner than 15 windows.

Re:The truth (2, Insightful)

Dynedain (141758) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112657)

I've designed pages with popups.....I admit, popup advertising is annoying, but having the larger version of an image appear in a popup when I click on a button....or poll results, or a movie clip, or ....etc,etc,etc is a interface feature I like and employ. I don't like having to leave a page or having an entire page of content be regenerated for 1 small thing.

And I hate tabs. They are annoying in the photoshop toolsets, they are annoying in the macromedia toolsets, they are annoying in NN/'zilla since they take up more window space on the smaller resolutions I have to design for. I like having pages in seperate windows so that I can resize them however I feel apropriate for comparing the data I'm looking at. I want to be able to place them on different monitors and desktops without opening another instance of the application. Or so I can send only 1 window to the alternate monitor and/or desktop without sending them all.

Re:The truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112603)

Actually, I probably will be moderated troll; but you know what? I can say that honestly, I will not put one above the other.. Mozilla is a respectable browser and a great open-source effort, but you know what? Microsoft, even with their horrid tactics definetly produce an amazing, fast browser. I'm not going to lie about it, it's an awesome browser. Not too fond of their mail client or operating systems, though ;).

The parent was not trolling either, he just has an opinion that differs slightly from 600-lbs men who spend all day in IRC and play games like "Move the red dot to the right", and "Bill Gates is a fag, LOL!".

Re:The truth (1)

Cyn (50070) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112614)

fine internet browser

s/fine internet browser/dangerous shell/

Re:The truth (1)

surfacearea (219926) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112616)

Actually, I.E. will always be the best browser....they make a damn fine internet browser.

Is he serious? IE is not bad, and was the best browser; that is, when nothing else existed except POS Netscape 3 or 4.
Some points:

Is it fast? Not as fast as Opera, I've noticed. Not even a contest--no one is going to argue this.

Does it have a history of breaking standards? You bet your damned britches.

Does it only run on two platforms? What do you think, sonny?

Is it full featured? Yeah right! IE has BARELY updated their feature set for a couple of releases now. IE6 has seen bug fixes, optimizations, image toolbar, and the like, but they STILL don't have a download manager, still can't zoom. Puleeeease.

Is it buggy? I still see crashes in IE, but haven't for a long time in Opera.

Can it print web pages? In your dreams. Has anyone ever tried printing out a page in IE? Probably not, because it doesn't scale ANYTHING to fit the page properly, and has been an essentialy worthless feature since whenever--one must rely upon "printer friendly" versions a page to successfully print.

Re:The truth (1)

surfacearea (219926) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112653)

Apologies. I forgot to close the bold tag.

Re:The truth (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112641)

Apart from it's constant freezes, security holes, lousy support of standards, no support for popup blocking, no cross-platform capability, no tabbed display and huge memory footprint yeah it is pretty good.

Re:The truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112682)

Why is this troll-lamer getting modded up?

Such stupidity in /. these days.

Too bad I'm superior to everyone.

Re:The truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112683)

IE may reneder web pages well and load fast, but it is still a vulnerable POS that gives out too much control over to whatever website you happen to visit... no thanks, i don't want it

Re:The truth (5, Insightful)

gerf (532474) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112563)

Mozilla > Opera

Mozilla wasn't built for only browsing. It was built as a platform, for further development in the open source community. Thus, speed is not the main focus, but useability, and modability. Opera on the other hand, is zoned in on being a hella-good browser. They don't mess around trying to incorporate extra packages and options that are just not necessary for average users. The problem is, average users use IE...

By the way, if you get the student discout, it's half price to buy opera, sans banner ads. And, unless i'm mistaken, that purchase lasts a lifetime.

But ultimately, Hurd concluded, Opera and other Microsoft competitors would do better to support the technologies that the market-leading Internet Explorer browser made available, rather than focusing on industry standards

Mozilla does not attempt to cater to the IE crap-nuances. Opera does. They actually write code that basically says 'click here to emulate IE f0rk-ups.' Oh, i do like opera more than mozilla or 'scape, for my little pitiful uses. I LOVE the glorious plethora of shortcuts, both mouse and keyboard

Re:The truth (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112574)

This is not flaimbait.

This is the truth.

Modding me down only makes me more correct.

I am right, you are wrong.

This is the truth.

I've fallen in love with Opera, but... (5, Insightful)

Marx_Mrvelous (532372) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112482)

They need a few things, IMHO. The frist is a hotkey to enable/disable popus (which they may have, I haven't looked very deeply). The second is a mozilla-like "kill all popups I don't request" option. They kill *all* popups, which interferes with my webmail programs, surveys, etc.

Re:I've fallen in love with Opera, but... (2)

moonbender (547943) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112499)

Agree with both of your points, but, well, the way it is is preferable to no pop-up protection at all. I just enable them on demand.

Re:I've fallen in love with Opera, but... (3, Informative)

simetra (155655) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112502)

F12, down-arrow to desired option, enter. Repeat if desired.

I agree though, it's annoying to have to enable/disable that manually for pages where you want your popup.

Someone mod this up (1)

rppp01 (236599) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112636)

I'd been looking to find out how to change the pop up options....awesome! thanks!

Re:I've fallen in love with Opera, but... (5, Informative)

yog (19073) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112660)

even simpler than that!
F12 r --> disables popups
F12 w --> enables popups
It's an instinctive subsecond keystroke for me now.

Re:I've fallen in love with Opera, but... (3, Informative)

Fweeky (41046) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112669)

F12 and R will turn them off, F12 A will turn them back on.

Down arrow indeed.. tsk :)

Turning off plugins also comes highly recommended for killing Flash banners (F12 p, toggle), and disabling gif anims (F12 g, toggle) makes the rest much less irritating.

http://voi.aagh.net/code/anti-banner.css [aagh.net] kills most of the rest.

Re:I've fallen in love with Opera, but... (2, Informative)

a hollow voice (112803) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112511)

It's not quite as good as a single hotkey, but Opera 6.x (for Windows, at least) has a popup menu associated with the F12 key that allows you to enable/disable popups, change your reported user agent, enable/disable javascript/plugins/cookies/animated gifs/etc.

I'm all for the changes you mentioned to the popup window blocking though.

Re:I've fallen in love with Opera, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112548)

> They kill *all* popups, which interferes with my webmail programs, surveys, etc.

I agree with that. Opera kills all window.open javascript commands, which is a horrible way to do it. Mozilla kills only window.open commands that are called from within the onload and onunload events. This will of course not stop all pop-up ads, but it will stop the most egregious abuses of them. I think this is the best bet and would like to see it done in more pop-up blocking software, both internal and external to the browser.

Re:I've fallen in love with Opera, but... (2, Insightful)

Cyn (50070) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112550)

No they don't - they kill popups created in a certain way. If you have a target="_new" then it should work fine. Popups a-la javascript created new windows is what's being disabled, which makes sense because that's where you get the stuff that's created without user request. If your webmail scripts are doing it that way, they may want to consider doing it otherwise.

still, a hotkey would be nice for those rare occassions :)

Re:I've fallen in love with Opera, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112590)

> Popups a-la javascript created new windows is what's being disabled, which makes sense because that's where you get the stuff that's created without user request.

That is certainly not always true. There are million ways to request things besides href tags, like form elements, that will require a javascript call to open a new window.

Re:I've fallen in love with Opera, but... (1)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112651)

Yes, but a LOT of sites use javascript pop ups for legitimate things, my bank for instance.

I actually got my brokerage to fix their page though, they had javascript on every URL in their nav bar even though it wasn't opening new windows, I told them that was unnecessary and causing breakage, so they fixed it! Not all big companies are unresponsive to customer requests to the webmaster. (My broker is DLJ/CSBF/HarrisDirect if they could only stop merging with companies now)

Re:I've fallen in love with Opera, but... (1)

dvanduzer (563848) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112559)

Others have already noted the F12 key, but what Opera really needs is reconfigurable hotkeys.

Re:I've fallen in love with Opera, but... (3, Insightful)

Psx29 (538840) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112560)

The real problem with Opera is that no one, and I mean no one wants to actually pay for a web browser. The only people I know who use Opera are using a cracked copy. This fact alone will always keep Opera below other browsers in terms of market saturation.

Re:I've fallen in love with Opera, but... (1)

dvanduzer (563848) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112586)

1) Plenty of people use the ad-supported non-cracked version of Opera

2) As stated in the article, Opera is making money from the people who pay for the ad-free version.

Re:I've fallen in love with Opera, but... (2, Informative)

manly_15 (447559) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112627)

However, one thing in Opera's favour is that they are very reasonable in their pricing. Right now they have a 50% off promotion [opera.com] , and if you are a student you get further 50% off. How many other companies offer such large student discounts? I find this very competive, and worthwhile for a browser that I can use on a P100 with 32mb of RAM without a hitch.

Re:I've fallen in love with Opera, but... (3, Funny)

Hayzeus (596826) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112667)

So students get 100% off?

You'd be surprised. (2, Informative)

FreeLinux (555387) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112674)

Microsoft.

That's right M$. They have academic licensing programs that, provided your school has subscribed, allow students to by M$ products for next to nothing. Windows XP for $15 is a damn big student discount.

Did I just plug Microsoft? Jesus Christ!

Re:I've fallen in love with Opera, but... (3, Insightful)

yog (19073) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112694)

It's free if you don't mind the built-in banner ad.
I paid for the Linux version because I mind the banner ad and, at the time, it was the best browser I could find for linux.

Mozilla is catching up, but I still find it big and sluggish by comparison. I love the convenience of Opera's keyboard shortcuts, and its tabbed browser windows are much more elegant and natural to use than Mozilla's.

Ah... (0)

wrinkledshirt (228541) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112491)

Competition smells good, doesn't it?

Now all we need to do is wait for the Evil One to buy Opera out.

Re:Ah... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112528)

Linus Torvalds is thinking about buying Opera?

Re:Ah... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112572)


No jackass. Osama is.

ok lets see some numbers ! (1)

johnjones (14274) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112594)

Ok this is all sales BULL until W see some numbers

e.g.
time to render a standard w3c compliant page compared to IE 6 and compared to Netscape pre7 or Mozilla 1 ?

than we can talk until then its marketing bull and not really news for nerds but news for people who didnt know other web browsers exist (alot of people just click the big E )

regards

John Jones

Re:Ah... (1)

wuHoncho (587718) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112595)

Now all we need to do is wait for the Evil One to buy Opera out.

I don't understand, why would the evil one [barneyonline.com] be interested in buying Opera?

This is a bit silly (5, Insightful)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112494)

First of all, this is bait for trolls to speak about IE and flaming OS zealots to scream about mozilla

Between Opera, IE, and Mozilla, the speed difference is small enough for your average user not to know the difference.
I think we're better off improving the features (like removing pop-up adds, etc...) than to try to squeak out another .01seconds to render the pictures on a screen.

Re:This is a bit silly (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112581)

Depends, for static pages on a fast machine it don't really matter since the download time will be longer then the rendeing time. If on the other hand you have a dynamic page then redraw time gets very important. You wouldn't accept it in a regular app if you can see it redraw parts so why should you in you're browser?

As for not wanting popup adds they block them all now wich apperantly can be overkill (I hate popups period so I like it). At least they have it unlike IE and unlike Netscape(unless you look in the config file).

As for OS zealots, let them. We need zealots to keep on top of things while the rest of us go about our daily lives.

Re:This is a bit silly (1)

bucklesl (73547) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112592)

I use both Mozilla and Opera at work, and Opera exclusively on my gentoo box at home. Opera is definitely quicker in one of the most important parts of browsing, IMHO -- moving back and forth between loaded pages.

Now I realize that you can increase the cache in Mozilla (which I have done), but I've never had to mess with the settings in Opera.

It does need an option to kill popups that you didn't request, though...Maybe in the next version.

Oh, and does anybody know if you get a free upgrade to 7?

Re:This is a bit silly (1, Flamebait)

MisterBlister (539957) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112608)

Agreed. How many people use computers where the rendering speed of any modern browser is the bottleneck rather than the network connection that is downloading the data to display? I'd guess its pretty close to absolute zero.

I'm all for making the browser more standards-compliant, but 'fastest browser on earth' is a completely useless claim.

Re:This is a bit silly (5, Interesting)

Idarubicin (579475) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112609)

Between Opera, IE, and Mozilla, the speed difference is small enough for your average user not to know the difference.

True enough for the mythical 'average user' whose desktop machine is less than two years old. As a university student who is working on a four-year-old PII-300 at home, and a PI-133 with 64 MB of RAM at work (age unknown), every last cycle is precious. Particularly since I'm usually multitasking.

The footprint--in memory, in terms of clock cycles eaten, on my tiny hard drive--of my browser actually a very important consideration for me, and probably for others. The F12 for quick menus (to kill popups, mostly), the clean file transfer monitoring box, and the tabbed browsing (fewer windows on my task bar) are worth their weight in gold.

Opera has also been quick to respond to bugs and make critical fixes--something that some companies are loathe to do. (Ahem. Microsoft. Certificates. Ahem.)

And it really is the fastest (of IE, Moz, and Opera) browser on earth.

Re:This is a bit silly (3, Informative)

FattMattP (86246) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112618)

I think we're better off improving the features ... than to try to squeak out another .01seconds to render the pictures on a screen.
If you had bothered to read the article you would have seen that getting the browser to be faster was a by-product of rewriting the engine. A quote to enlighten you:
"There were some things that were difficult to do with the old engine, particularly with changing elements in pages," said Opera Software co-founder and CEO Jon S. von Tetzchner. "We felt we needed a rewritten engine to have something that works with all the DOM that is coming out."

Re:This is a bit silly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112625)


Mod parent up.

So, with the earlier vi/emacs riot, this makes twice the Ed's have gone "Karma Whoring" today.

Just watch the zealots comment up a fucking pissing-contest of a riot. Way to go guys. Way to fuckin go.

Re:This is a bit silly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112632)

I have an 1.3GHz AMD and Mozilla crawls on it. Startup time, menu draws, DNS resolution, file save dialog popups, etc. All of those are perceptibly slower than with Opera and IE.

And a lot of people have machines that are both slower and have less RAM than mine.

Re:This is a bit silly (3, Insightful)

David Gerard (12369) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112656)

With anything under 64MB, Mozilla is a slug. It would like 256MB. It's better than it used to be, but its arse is still incredibly fat.

The one IE feature I'd most like to see in Mozilla (1)

paladin_tom (533027) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112675)

is the ability to Cancel a download, click the link again, and have the browser (usually) pick up where the previous download attempt left off.

My university's network can be somewhat unreliable, and downloads often stop midway through. I often find that using IE is the only way to get the download, even though I prefer Mozilla (and Galeon, when I'm using GNU/Linux).

5th post (-1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112498)

5th post because I'm using Internet Explorer, the slowest browser on Earth.

Not focus on industry standards? (2)

Mr. Sketch (111112) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112515)

But ultimately, Hurd concluded, Opera and other Microsoft competitors would do better to support the technologies that the market-leading Internet Explorer browser made available, rather than focusing on industry standards.

Let the flaming begin...

IE is the industry standard. (0, Troll)

glrotate (300695) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112573)

People don't care how a bunch of nerds think their browser should behave, they just want it to work with the sites they visit. According to Google [google.com] no other browser is even close to IE.

Go Norway (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112520)

Go Norway, land of the best browser in the world.
They might not have the huge budgets of Netscape fo the past and IE of today, but they still kick ass.

finally (1)

briancnorton (586947) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112522)

all those wasted tenths of seconds on my FREE copy of IE6 are history. I mean seriously, over a lifetime that could add up to hours saved. Man, some people really need to get their priorities straight if they spend 18 months tweaking for minimal gains in what is already their strong area.

But it's not free!!! (5, Insightful)

Webmoth (75878) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112523)

OK, so it's not free. Sometimes, it's worth a few bucks for software that works, works well, and works fast. This is one of the few.

Support Opera. Support well-written code. Pay for it!

I can't say the same thing for software coming from Redmond.

Re:But it's not free!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112547)

You know and I know that /.'ers ain't gonna pay for this. They will get one copy, upload it to gnuTella and crow about how it has been 'liberated'

Re:But it's not free!!! (2, Insightful)

Repugnant_Shit (263651) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112602)

Opera is the best around. I bought a license for my copy at work (windows) and a license for home (linux). Mouse gestures rule.

Re:But it's not free!!! (1)

alienw (585907) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112655)

It's better than M$IE, but it's not half as good as Mozilla. Maybe it's faster on a dialup connection if you're using a slow old Pentium 166, but it's definitely not any faster than Mozilla on a broadband connection on an 800MHz P3. It's less compatible than Mozilla (which is second in site compatibility only to MSIE). It crashes more than Mozilla (I haven't had 1.1beta crash yet, but Opera routinely crashed on my box). Last but not least, it costs money.

If you're going to settle for a proprietary browser that costs money, may I suggest MSIE? Yes, it has the occasional security hole (more of a publicity thing than anything else), but it works with every website out there, and it's more stable.

Re:But it's not free!!! (1)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112665)

The newest Opera crashes a LOT less. The early 6.0TPs were pretty bad with the crashing randomly.

ain't nothin' like... (2, Offtopic)

bsDaemon (87307) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112525)

surfing pr0n in an Xterm. w3m forever!!

Merely telling people over and over again... (2, Interesting)

SIGFPE (97527) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112535)

...that Opera is the fastest browser doesn't actually make it faster (although some religious types might believe differently).

Re:Merely telling people over and over again... (1)

ajb69 (561899) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112679)

Actually, having recently used IE, Mozilla 1.1b and Opera 6 (Win XP, moderately new laptop) - I have to say that Opera was noticeably speedier than the other two, both in loading and rendering.

That didn't stop me uninstalling it this morning though - simply because it could not render several of the pages I often visit! As a Mozilla user, I am used to and ignore small imperfections in pages written for IE users - however Opera just made web-surfing too difficult. For example, I could not log into my webmail [freeserve.com] account (invalid session error). When you added that to the huge amount of ordinary web pages that simply loaded in an illegible state - it had to go and I have reverted to Moz, despite its bloat.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for standard-setting by committee rather than market-share. I know how much Mozilla has agonised over this problem, but I cannot use a product that renders web pages badly, however quickly - especially if they are web pages that Mozilla can render without a quirk (ahem).

cheers

drew

Is rendering speed the problem? (3, Insightful)

Junks Jerzey (54586) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112536)

The guys at Opera have been rewriting their rendering engine over the past 18 months

Was rendering speed ever a problem, in either Opera or IE? Back when I used a double-digit MHz processor maybe, but even on a Pentium II 333 I don't give page rendering speed a second thought.

"World's fastest browser" smacks a whole lot of the "Pentium IV makes the internet faster" nonsense. The bottleneck, even on a slow processor, is the network connection.

Re:Is rendering speed the problem? (5, Interesting)

FFFish (7567) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112591)

Ah, but Opera is far more than a browser for Windows. It's also a browser for cell phones, terminals, PDAs and more. Some of these *are* double-digit MHz machines.

That's not speed... (0, Offtopic)

Piic (146932) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112538)

My wife can flip through the closeout clothing racks in a store at near light speed.

You wanna talk browsing speed? Opera ain't got nothin' on her.

Dillo (4, Informative)

mlinksva (1755) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112539)

It needs work, but Dillo [cipsga.org.br] is the fastest graphical browser I've ever used. As fast if not faster than a text-only browser like lynx, links or w3m. Galeon feels incredibly slow next to Dillo, and Galeon usually feels pretty fast to me.

Re:Dillo (1)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112696)

Dillo supports no where near the amount of stuff a full browser does. If you are just browsing simple sites then sure, but it's a hassle to change browsers just to visit new sites. Opera supports 99.9% of the sites I go to. I only very rarely need to switch to Mozilla, usually for full java applet support, since that is still buggy in the newest Opera Linux.

Lynx (1, Funny)

Dr. Awktagon (233360) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112553)

is it faster than Lynx?

Re:Lynx (1)

Lord Bitman (95493) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112583)

Disable Images, Scripts, Tables, and everything else that isnt plain, unformatted text. Yes.

NO (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112619)

No.

What is DOM? (1)

mbell (80219) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112566)

I didn't know so I found out...

What does DOM stand for?

The Document Object Model. This means that we are developing a model in which the document or Web page contains objects (elements, links, etc.) that can be manipulated. So you will be able to delete, add, or change an element (as long as the document is still valid, of course!), change its content or add, delete or change an attribute. You will be able to get a list of all the H1 elements in the document, or all the elements with an attribute CLASS="foo".

Why should I support or use the DOM?

The DOM API provides a standardized, versatile view of a document's contents. By supporting the DOM API, a program not only allows its data to be manipulated by other routines, but does so in a way that allows those manipulations to be reused with other DOMs, or to take advantage of solutions already written for those DOMs. This interoperability also allows programmers who invest in learning to use the DOM calls to apply those skills to other DOMs.

The intent is that -- if you stick with the standardized APIs -- any DOM implementation can be plugged together with any DOM-based application. The original example of this was dynamic-HTML scripts; by agreeing on the DOM as their standard representation of the document, scripts can be be written that will work properly on all browsers. But this applies to larger-scale programming as well; for example, a server-side solution might be built out of the following reusable components, which may or may not all share a single DOM implementation:

A database which presents its contents as a DOM tree. (Note that the underlying data presented via a DOM need not itself be DOM-like. The DOM is a tool for manipulating data, not a data structure itself.)
An XML parser which generates a DOM tree, used to read a stylesheet.
An XSLT processor which combines these, producing a new DOM tree. ("Extension routines" in the XSLT stylesheet may also access the source document via the DOM.)
A routine which writes a DOM's contents out to the network in the desired syntax (XML, HTML, or other).
If a better implementation of one of these modules becomes available (a faster XML parser, for example) or if an additional/different processing stage is required, you should be able to unplug the existing connections and plug in the new component with minimal recoding.

(The goal is "no recoding", and that is already the case for many applications, but at this writing the DOM Level 2 APIs are not yet complete enough to promise this for all applications. In particular, some of the tools needed to construct a DOM "from scratch" are not yet exposed in the published APIs, and the DOM has not yet defined a representation for the DTD/Schema information.)

Similarly, while all DOM implementations should be interoperable, they may vary considerably in code size, memory demand, and performance of individual operations. So the ability to unplug and replace the DOM itself may also be very useful. For example, since some parsers can write into a user-provided DOM, you may be able to parse a document directly into the above-mentioned database.

There is one potential downside to using the DOM: As with any generalized set of interfaces, the DOM calls can be used to solve a very wide range of problems, but may not be the optimal solution for any specific problem. The advantages of interoperability and familiarity to users will more than compensate for this in many applications, but you will find that some tasks may call for other interfaces in addition to, or instead of, the DOM. For example, your application may wish to use custom interfaces internally for performance reasons, yet be able to import/export/expose its data via the DOM for convenient access from outside.

I am developing a product using the DOM specification. What must I do when the product is released?

Full details are in the DOM specification. A brief summary follows:

if you are copying the DOM specification into the documentation of your product, then you must cite the source (including the URL) and include the W3C copyright notice and the status of the specification
if you are intending to build technologies based on the DOM specification, then you are free to use these. W3C specifications and sample code are freely available for any use by anyone. If you are going to change the DOM bindings in any way, you must document that the bindings have been changed and change, for example, the Java package names.

Why doesn't the DOM specify anything regarding memory management?

The DOM specification does not define any methods related to memory management (such as to release an object). This is because while the DOM is a programming language independent API, the way one deals with memory is very language specific. Therefore any method related to memory management that is required by a particular language, needs to be specified in that language binding. Due to the way memory is managed in Java and ECMAScript, none of the bindings included in the DOM specification have such methods.

-mbell

Incredibly fast but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112571)

Opera seems to crash on me a lot. This happens whether or not I have Javascript disabled. Anybody else have that problem.

newsflash (1)

pbranes (565105) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112576)

Fast browser slowed by repeatedly loading large, annoying advertisements begging the user to purchase the browser. Details at 11.

Re:newsflash (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112652)

PC Plus mag in the UK reviewed the new opera and said it was nice, but slower.

wince... (5, Insightful)

natefaerber (143261) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112580)

But ultimately, Hurd concluded, Opera and other Microsoft competitors would do better to support the technologies that the market-leading Internet Explorer browser made available, rather than focusing on industry standards.

"What these other browser makers should do is stop complaining about what Microsoft is doing and start supporting what Microsoft is supporting," Hurd said. "People out there aren't reading these specs; they're using IE."


This would be a huge mistake for any competitor. Why would you want to jump into line with MS? You would have no opportunity lead. You would just play catch up and never be able to offer the customer a superior product.

Follow the standards and anyone can lead the market if they implement them better. They will also avoid being blindsided by new MS "standards".

OT: Sad news ... Stephen King dead at 54 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112587)


I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Horror/Sci Fi writer Stephen King was found dead in his Maine home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.

Irony of Standards (1)

tyrione (134248) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112589)

The coded i develop is first certified with W3C and then tested for satisfaction within Mozilla because 9.9/10 times I know I don't have to tweak anything for it to be viewed in IE at that point but not the other way around.

Regarding Opera, its definitely 3rd in compliance with W3C standards and explains the arrogant tart comment about not worrying about standards but targeting an approach to hack what IE hacks.

Marketing spin... (5, Informative)

billnapier (33763) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112597)

From reading the article, I get the feeling that the real reason for the rewrite is not to get better speed, that would just be a side effect. It sounds like it had to be rewritten because they were running up to limitations in what they could do by just extending their current engine. These things happen from time to time with larger projects.

Opera Interface (1)

Gaggme (594298) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112598)

Opera's interface wasn't anything revolutionary in the first place. It definatly had quite a few advantages when it came to user interactivity with it mouse movement recognition, and caching techniques, but left room for quite a bit of improvement.

Hopefully the change from Legacy will not literally remove them from the game like it did intially for Netscape.

Lets give it a try! (1)

bDerrly (246981) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112610)

Rather than bashing other browsers or saying one is better than the other. Why doesn't everyone just twiddle theirs thumbs and wait for the code to come out? Then we will see if a) they are in fact the fastest web browser and b) just how opera ranks vs Mozilla, etc.

I for one can't wait to try it out.

So if IE jumped off a cliff... (1)

niall2 (192734) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112612)

The part here that made me worry about the future of any non-MS browser software was

"What these other browser makers should do is stop complaining about what Microsoft is doing and start supporting what Microsoft is supporting," Hurd said. "People out there aren't reading these specs; they're using IE."

On the surface I agree with this (though philosophically I don't like the idea of establishing standards by enforcing a monopoly). If your going to compete you have to do what the leader is doing and try to do it better. What I worry about is that only the leader, who has large resources and a vested interest in seeing everyone else fail, inovates while the others spends all their time catching up.

I don't think thats happening with Opera or Mozilla...yet.

...once it loads (1)

bsd-mon (515734) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112621)

it's the fastest browser on earth. It also seems to make my other apps hiccup (like making winamp skip) when I minimize it, but I think that is more of a problem with W2K

Kick In The teeth (2, Interesting)

SomeOtherGuy (179082) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112622)

"But ultimately, Hurd concluded, Opera and other Microsoft competitors would do better to support the technologies that the market-leading Internet Explorer browser made available, rather than focusing on industry standards."

Wow does not that quote stick out like a sore thumb from the company that prided themselves on following the published standards? To me that is a scary way of looking at things.

why I love opera.. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112626)

tabbed browsing.. zoom function that zooms both text and images.. mouse gestures so I don't even ned gui buttons for navigation.. no pop-ups.. author/user-mode toggle that is useful for those pages with unreadable text/background combination etc.. skinnable.. the adress bar turns into a status bar when loading a page (more screenspace ^_^).. very customizable..

Each time I have to use mozilla or IE it gets uncomfortable, if only for the mouse gestures that makes surfing that much more enjoyable, and perhaps the lack of the zoom (really handy lots of times).

Will their CSS support be up to scratch, though? (3, Insightful)

David Gerard (12369) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112637)

One thing that's particularly annoying about Opera 6 is patchy CSS2 support. Which is quite surprising, considering they basically wrote the spec.

CSS2 and DOM are hard problems - IE's rendering engine needed a huge amount of work to get it halfway right in IE6. A lot of Opera's size and speed advantage comes from cutting corners.

(Statement of bias: I'm involved in Mozilla.)

I used to use Opera (2)

sean23007 (143364) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112649)

For quite a while I used Opera 6, and I loved it. It was fast, and its tabbed browsing was fantastic. The mouse gestures were an unbelievable leap in the speed of web browsing. But I started to get a little ticked off that it blocked all popups, because I liked getting them when I clicked a little javascript button. In order to get these little windows, I had to dig through the extensive preferences menu and temporarily turn on popup windows. It soon began to get tiresome.

Then Mozilla 1.0 came out. I downloaded it, and I've been using it ever since. Mozilla could use some of the things that Opera has, like mouse gestures, but it is more stable (Opera had the habit of crashing when I had more than a dozen windows open) and at least as fast. That's right, Mozilla's rendering engine is at least as fast as Opera's "fastest on earth." Not only that, but it rendered many pages more accurately. With the release of 1.0, Mozilla is a very mature offering, and it makes Opera seem a little less professional, despite the hefty price tag.

Unless the new engine is considerably faster than Gecko, I for one will be sticking to Mozilla. Good luck to the Opera guys though.

Re:I used to use Opera (2)

ONU CS Geek (323473) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112664)

Hit [F12]. It would have brought up a menu, and you can accept/reject pop-up windows from there without going into your preferences.

faster (1)

nege (263655) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112650)

Fastest browser on earth.

Generally the are talking about the render times etc. But what about the load time? When you are talking about windows pcs, you wont find something faster than explorer because its already open all the time. This gives it an advantage because it will always open faster than other browsers on others systems because its built right in. I will use mozilla tho to block those pesky popups.

Go Opera (0)

sllort (442574) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112663)

Ya as I recall it renders renders MSN super duper fast [slashdot.org] .
I thought the browser war wasn't about speed but about using standards churn to lock out anything but the 'A Normal Browser' [microsoft.com] . Oh well, good for Opera.

KWTCMA

Whatever Opera is SLOW (1)

greymond (539980) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112671)

Opera has a lot of cool features that I like BUT there statement on being the "fastest" is total BS on linux I find Konqueror WAY faster and on XP I find IE to work the best, on a mac wit 9.2.1 (havent used X) I find IE to work the best all around. Opera is definately cool with registered copy but I have a 1.5mg connection for a reason (I am impatient) and waiting for opera to just open let alone get me from one page to another quicky (since im impatient) isnt worth it.

About Opera (3, Insightful)

Roadmaster (96317) | more than 11 years ago | (#4112681)

"Between Opera, IE, and Mozilla, the speed difference is small enough for your average user not to know the difference.
I think we're better off improving the features (like removing pop-up adds, etc...) than to try to squeak out another .01seconds to render the pictures on a screen."

Featuritis is what brought us bloated, slow browsers such as IE and Mozilla, while I'm an avid Mozilla user, it's comparatively slow and resource-intensive.

Opera has ALWAYS strived for performance , correct HTML, and truly useful features. Opera pioneered the MDI browser concept, as well as accessibility features such as full keyboard browsing, configurable page zoom and many others.

Best of all, they've ALWAYS done this without adding bloat to the browser. It's always been lean and mean, ever since the 1.x versions (I helped with some language translations so I know about this firsthand).

Keep in mind that many places still have aging 486 or P5 systems with little ram or hard disk to spare. On systems where Mozilla or IE won't even download due to lack of disk space, Opera installs and runs completely flawlessly, and absolutely flies when compared to the two leading browsers.

opera rocks.. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112686)

here are 3 essential opera features I cannot be without:

- mouse gestures! these things get addictive..
I can navigate without using keyboard/GUI.. only downside is I keep trying to pull them off in file explorer, and that doesn't work obviously.. I'm convinced mouse gestures will be implemented in a future version of windows (hope so anyway)

- zoom.. zoom images and text down or up as you please.. can't imagine a wired world without it hehe.

- pop-up killer! YEAH!

Mozilla has the pop-up killer.. great.. and perhaps it has zoom too? don't know.. but it will at least need a zoom and mouse gestures before I consider turning over to the lizard..
but mozilla is too bloated for my taste anyway i suppose.. one another great thing about opera is that it doesn't feel as bloated as IE/mozilla.

Fast me Not (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4112699)

If its fastest then why is enlightenment dr 17 so slow?
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