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663 comments

Great (2, Interesting)

Quasar1999 (520073) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162579)

Apple the next microsoft.... Oh, yeah, here's some great technology, but if you don't use it with our hardware, and our software, well then we'll get nasty on your ass... Oh and by the way, you also void your warranty...

What next? Nvidia sues end users over moving their video cards from their AMD to their Intel systems? WTF???

Re:Great (5, Interesting)

pi radians (170660) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162611)

Actually, its quite the opposite. In order for someone to burn DVDs they need to use Apple's software iDVD.

That software is only licensed to be used if you purchase a machine with one of Apple's Superdrive.

This story is actually on of fighting software piracy. Of course you have to have a little more knowledge to know that because reading the "Slashdot spin" is going to have every company look evil for protecting themselves.

Re:Great (1)

ObviousGuy (578567) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162617)

So you're saying that Apple doesn't trust its users to be able to be good citizens and not pirate software?

Re:Great (4, Interesting)

pi radians (170660) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162655)

It's impossible for them not to pirate the software. iDVD is only supplied as a free application with a SuperDrive that Apple sells you. If you are using another company's DVD burner, then you cannot use Apple's software.

Why is this so hard for some of you to understand?

Re:Great (4, Interesting)

dschuetz (10924) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162694)

If you are using another company's DVD burner, then you cannot use Apple's software.

How's this any different from Microsoft saying "If you throw away your PC and buy a new one, you can't use the software on that box?"

The DMCA allows, if I recall correctly, modifications to software to ensure interoperability. Here's software (iDVD) which doesn't work with a drive (external 3rd party DVD burner). Someone wrote software to make iDVD interoperable with the external drive. Perfectly legal.

In violation of an EULA? Well, that's up to Apple, the people using the patch, and all of us who haven't decided whether we believe EULAs are enforceable or not. Violation of DMCA? No. Can lawyers make your life hell even so? Certainly.

What it comes down to is this breaks Apple's business model for DVD burning. There's an easy solution: Stop giving away iDVD for free. Sheesh.

Re:Great (4, Insightful)

pi radians (170660) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162764)

How's this any different from Microsoft saying "If you throw away your PC and buy a new one, you can't use the software on that box?"

A - Microsoft doesn't manufacture PCs

B - Microsoft doesn't freely distibute Windows on a PC that they have sold

It's all in the license agreement. iDVD was made and given away for consumers that bought the SuperDrive. It is not Apple's responsibilty to ensure that every DVD burner has software to run it.

Apple does supply software that can use 3rd party burners as a seperate purchase: DVD Studio Pro.

Re:Great (3, Insightful)

gaj (1933) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162752)

And if I buy a SuperDrive *AND* another DVD-ROM, and choose to use iDVD on both drives? How the hell would that be "pirating" iDVD?

Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Re:Great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162664)

"That software is only licensed to be used if you purchase a machine with one of Apple's Superdrive."

And this is the problem. In many countries there are laws to prevent this kind of abuse: You must sell your different products independently. If you want to sell DVD playing software you must sell it to ANYONE who is interested.

Re:Great (2)

MaxVlast (103795) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162715)

Does that mean I could go up to BMW Sweden (or whatever) and demand that they sell me that funky new computer control system without the bother and expense of a new car? I could then go install it in my '93 Camry and be the coolest kid on the block?

Re:Great (1)

realxmp (518717) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162730)

I hate to ask the obvious question here but how does using only an Apple Superdrive help fight piracy any more than using another manufacturers? Actually I don't see how this patch violates the DCMA. I doesn't circumvent copy protection, it's merely reverse engineering to allow system interoperablity.

Re:Great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162747)

Did you read that article?

It has nothing to do with software piracy. It is purely that Apple doesn't want people burning dvd's on external drives. They limited the iDVD software to work only on the internal drives.

The apple developer sold a patch that allowed users to burn dvds on external drives using iDVD.

Now, I don't believe Apple can prevent someone from coming out with a competitor to iDVD that WILL allow burning dvds on external drives. The DMCA can't prevent THAT.

Re:Great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162772)

Good job READING the artcile, dumbass.

Same news, different day . . . (2)

SimplyCosmic (15296) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162613)

Company uses DMCA to prevent competition, film at 11.

It's the same old story, the DMCA is used to stop the use or development of technology that would compete with that of the original corporation, doesn't require the original corporation to change and improve their tech to stay competitive, yet we're to believe the well-compensated politicians that the DMCA doesn't inhibit innovation?

Feh.

Re:Same news, different day . . . (5, Informative)

pi radians (170660) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162683)

Company uses DMCA to prevent competition, film at 11.

On the contrary, now there is room for another company to come in and develop a DVD authoring application. Apple has stated that their free software is only licensed to buyers of Apple's SuperDrive.

For a user who adds some other company's DVD burner they have to use a competitors product.

Re:Great (4, Informative)

entrox (266621) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162615)

First of all, Apple is in the business of selling _hardware_, not software.

iDVD is part of the i-suite of provided FREE applications with the sole reason to boost sales of Macintosh systems and Apple hardware in general. They don't make a single penny on iDVD per se, but on the drives it supports - if somebody now makes iDVD work with third-party burners, they take away the only reason why it is provided at all (for free).

Apple the next microsoft.... (1)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162675)

Apples always been worse than Microsoft.
e.g.
The go mad if anyone release pre-views of there stuff.
Never ever try to reproduce the Aqua desktop for fear of grim death by apple.

don't try to use there dvd software with a non apple dvd drive.

People Thought Apple Was a Kinder Master than MS (3, Insightful)

FreeUser (11483) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162691)

Apple the next microsoft.... Oh, yeah, here's some great technology, but if you don't use it with our hardware, and our software, well then we'll get nasty on your ass

No doubt. What is so twisted about software licensing and copyright as it is currently implimented is that, unlike every other piece of technology we buy (your car, your boat, your plane, your refrigerator), you're not allowed to take it apart and see how it works, or modify it to better suit your purposes.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

If you switch to Apple to free yourself of Micrsoft, rather than switching to free(dom) software [FreeBSD, GNU/Linux, whatever], you are merely trading one set of masters for another. Apple may seem to be the kinder master, but it is nevertheless a master. Now it looks like they might not be so kind, after all.

All the apple spinmeisters would have us believe we're somehow 'stealing' from Apple by not paying their inflated hardware prices, to which I respond "you can't have it both ways." Either the software is free (beer) and I'll use it as I damn well please, or it costs money and you'd better charge me a fair market price for it. But to give me something, and then threaten to sue if I don't use it precisely as you intended, is just utter crap.

That the DMCA allows this sort of nonsense is yet another concrete example of the despicable corruption at the top of the Corporate States of America on both the political and corporate side, and the ever greater price the rest of us are paying for allowing that corruption to continue.

Re:Great (2)

jmv (93421) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162696)

Apple the next microsoft

If (I doubt it) Apple gets anywhere near as powerful as MS is right now, be afraid!

Re:Great (1)

billcopc (196330) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162778)

That's a good idea. NVidia should sue Geforce owners with non-AMD rigs, just for the fsck of it. So then someone else can step up to the plate and build Geforce-clones for Intel rigs, at half the price to balance everything out. 100$ Athlon, 300$ geforce.. vs 300$ P4, 100$ G-Fork.

w00t (-1)

Guns n' Roses Troll (207208) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162586)

Early 90s-era Alicia Silverstone and Liv Tyler need to lesbanize something fierce. I downloaded the Aerosmith videos 'Amazing', 'Crying', and 'Crazy' and she was so hot in all of them. What the hell happened? She turned into a fatty.

fp (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162588)

first post fun time dmca == bad;

Apple have the wrong idea (1, Insightful)

timmyf2371 (586051) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162589)

Reading this article made me lose a litte respect for Apple. I've always thought of them as the sort of 'cool' company who were decent.

The idea behind computer's is that they be easily upgradable, so that you don't need to buy a new computer if you only want to upgrade one component.

I feel Apple have made a mistake here, which will hopefully be rectified by discussions with the companies involved.

Tim

Re:Apple have the wrong idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162658)

Apple never wants its users to tinker with the insides of their computers. Early on, you needed special tools to even OPEN a Mac.

Re:Apple have the wrong idea (2)

MaxVlast (103795) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162744)

Uh, how come a major selling point of new Macs is the unbelievable ease in opening the case? It took me two clicks to find this page: http://www.apple.com/support/

Because Apple made the original Mac hard to open (a good idea, because the first thing the user would find is the deadly CRT) doesn't mean that now, nearly twenty (20!) years later, they still have the same intentions.

Re:Apple have the wrong idea (2)

MaxVlast (103795) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162766)

Dammit. Wrong URL. Try this [apple.com].

Silly OmniWeb has a few annoying quirks. If you select the address area, then put your mouse over another link, it fills the address field in with the moused-over link, so when you apple-C, you copy the new link, not the old one.

Re:Apple have the wrong idea (0, Flamebait)

leviramsey (248057) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162678)

Apple has never been a "cool" company. Yeah, they opensourced Darwin when they didn't have to. They've been able to hide it fairly well, because they can hide behind being a "hardware" company (after all, OS X is a $100 operating system with a $2,000 hardware key), but they've never really wanted freedom for their users. The fact that many/most of their users supported wholeheartedly the decision to submarine the clones leads me to believe that most Apple users are fascists who have deluded themselves into thinking that they are liberal.

Re:Apple have the wrong idea (0)

ACNeal (595975) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162749)

When in the long history of Apple have they ever come across as a cool company.

They were dog-eat-dog before anyone else.

The closed hardware model, all the attacks they made on people trying to clone them, the suit to close down eMachines for their multi-colored cases.

They have a cool startup story, but that is where the cool stops. They do have nice products, and deserve to be a little pretentious. But they have never created easily upgradable computers.

so the score thus far is .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162590)

Apple is evil today. Sony - evil. M$ - evil. Is HPaq evil or not, I forget. Sun - evil. Intel - evil.

That's right. Limit your customers' capabilities. (1)

Richard Steiner (1585) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162592)

This is one of the reasons I've always had issues with buying a Mac. I love the MacOS, but Apple hasn't always been a kind and generous hardware vendor.

Re:That's right. Limit your customers' capabilitie (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162762)

Apple sells hardware, that's how they make their money and they tie it to their software so that it WORKS.

Sure upgrading should be easy but then where would Apple be?

Encrypted Viruses (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162593)

When will we get encrypted viruses so that we can sue companys who provide anti-cirus software for Window for violation of the DMCA law.

The great redeemer is fallible after all! (1, Troll)

ObviousGuy (578567) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162595)

If the one-button mouse couldn't convince Apple zealots that their company didn't have their best interests at heart, perhaps this latest move to take the decision out of the user's hand will.

Rip, Mix, Burn?

Well... If you can't rip...

-1 Overrated (1)

ObviousGuy (578567) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162630)

That was a terrible post. What got into me?

Re:-1 Overrated (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162660)

it's the jews. pls shower in zyklon-b asap

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Re:The great redeemer is fallible after all! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162725)

Apple's problem is not with the rip part believe it or not. That's something a user may choose to do and hopefully do legally.

Apple's problem in this case is with the burn part. Specifically there problem is with burning DVD's via apple's software when the DVD drive did not come from them. It seems screwy to give software away for free (basically) but put checks in the software so that it won't work with a non-apple drive. I don't see how disabling or circumventing that check violates the DMCA really, and this is probably baseless.

I do feel sorry for Apple, as a hardware manufacturer and US company they are bound by all sorts of laws including their contracts with the DVD consortium. All around apple are software vendors who feel they are only bound by their click wrap licenses.

This does screw customers and I do not believe it has to work this way. Other apple software is occasionally limited or restricted but never anywhere as limited or restricted as their DVD software. Disk burner and itunes work with a wide variety of CD-r drives, it is iDVD that does not work with non-apple DVD-R drives. Apple should re-check their DVD licenses and see if they really have to be this totalitarian. It obviously is not in their customers' interests or desires.

I'm proud to be someone who hacks Apple's DVD software to allow better interoperability with different hardware, I'm also proud to be an OWC customer. I wish OWC would have been allowed to continue to distribute their enabler software. There is nothing wrong with allowing someone to use software that was bundled with their computer with an after market DVD-R drive, any DVD-R drive. To say that there is somewhat demented.

Uh....? (1, Interesting)

numbski (515011) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162598)

Okay, so my question becomes quite simply....

I understand that the dealers are inclined to do what Apple wants. Since all your goods are belong to Apple and such, but really...couldn't they just tell Apple where to stick it aside from that? I mean what part of the DMCA disallows patching a driver?

They're just mad because then you could use iDVD and not buy a new computer to do it. ::Cries like a baby::

You're building market share. Take it and like it.

Where's the problem? (3, Insightful)

Amarok.Org (514102) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162602)

Apple wrote the software, at their expense, and distributes it *free of charge* in order to sell their hardware. Now, a third party application cracks the hardware restrictions, allowing non-Apple DVD drives (for which they've received no revenue) to utilize their software. Without this crack, to use the software you're required to provide Apple revenue through the purchase of an Apple DVD writer (even if that's bundled in a new system).


If you want to use Apple's software is worth using, it's worth compensating Apple for it's development. If you want to use a non-Apple DVD writer, that's fine - the OS will let you. Just grab one of the other award-winning, easy to use, and powerful DVD authoring apps out there that are free. Now, where did I see those...

Re:Where's the problem? (1)

inkfox (580440) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162618)

To be fair, I don't remember people being this kind to MS when it shipped mere drivers which only worked with the Microsoft Mouse.

Re:Where's the problem? (1)

gstevens (209321) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162626)

Um, if it's a Mac, Apple's received revenue....

Re:Where's the problem? (3, Informative)

Amarok.Org (514102) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162644)

Um, if it's a Mac, Apple's received revenue....

For the machine? Yes. For the development of iDVD? No.

iDVD is a great FREE tool for CD authoring, better than many EXPENSIVE tools out there. Apple didn't write it just to be nice, they wrote it to sell DVD burners.

Re:Where's the problem? (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162692)

However...

People are more likely to buy a Mac in order to use this free software.

The total number of DVD burners from all manufacturers, including Apple will increase if people have the software to use it.

If Apple require you to buy their burner to use the software, then it is not free. It costs the same as the burner.

They are not entitled to a profit just because they have spent money on it. The market doesn't work like that. If they feel they deserve to make a profit on the software, then they should sell it for a profit.

If their business model costs them more money than they make, then they don't deserve to make a profit

Re:Where's the problem? (5, Insightful)

Amarok.Org (514102) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162777)


People are more likely to buy a Mac in order to use this free software.

I'm sure that's Apple's intention, yes.

The total number of DVD burners from all manufacturers, including Apple will increase if people have the software to use it.

Agreed. How eager do you think Apple is to support the sale of their competitor's products?

If Apple require you to buy their burner to use the software, then it is not free. It costs the same as the burner.

I'm not disputing that. You're absolutely right, looked at from the right angle, iDVD isn't free - it's included for use with purchased and profit producing Apple DVD hardware.

They are not entitled to a profit just because they have spent money on it. The market doesn't work like that. If they feel they deserve to make a profit on the software, then they should sell it for a profit.

Ah, but that's where you're wrong. They *are* entitled to make a profit on it if they wrote it to support only their hardware. For what it's worth, they ARE selling it for a profit. By making it compatible only with Apple DVD drives, they're guaranteed that they sell DVD drives for it's use. If you crack the software, you've circumvented that protection and deprived Apple of revenue. To counter the arguments I can already feel coming about "If it didn't support non-Apple drives, I'd never use it, so they're not losing revenue" this is akin to "It's ok to sneak into the movies if I wouldn't have paid for the ticket in the first place." The argument just doesn't hold water, sorry.
If their business model costs them more money than they make, then they don't deserve to make a profit

Presumably, their business model does allow them to make a profit, assuming that people don't illegally modify their code.

Re:Where's the problem? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162646)

But it's old revenue.

This is just as thieving as the immoral types who try and get Quartz Extreme on anything less than current production hardware.

Apple relies on sheeple to understand Apple-TM Uber Alles.

Re:Where's the problem? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162656)

Is there any way a third party can legally "buy into" iDVD? Pay apple a royalty for iDVD and they support your drive

Re:Where's the problem? (2, Funny)

motox (312416) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162657)

I feel a lot of people already compensates Apple politics on hardware by not buying apple computers :)

Think cars! (2)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162661)

The first most obvious problem is that apple should be 'giving away' the software with there DVD drive not giving you the software expecting you to buy there DVD drive.

If I buy a car from ford, ford expect me to get the car fixed and repaired using only ford authorised mechnics and parts (which they make money on?).

A lot of people will do this, and it keeps the resale value of the car higher.

But, there's nothing to stop me using anyones parts and getting anyone to fix the car.

(n.b. I know there's certian things you need to be authorised to do to cars in places like france)

Re:Think cars! (2)

entrox (266621) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162707)

Your analogy is flawed:

Apple developed iDVD at their expenses and provide it FREE of charges! I highly doubt you'll get the car for free. Selling their own drives is their _only_ stream of revenue in this case.

A better analogy would be razors: Apple provides you with a free Gilette and expects you to buy their razors. If somebody now distributes some kind of adapter (patch) to Apples gilette to fit their own razors, then Apple would lose quite a bit of money, wouldn't they?

Re:Think cars! (2)

zyklone (8959) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162731)

Having a bad business idea should not give you legal protection.
This is pretty much like the CueCat fiasco where they gave away a product for free and attempted to put restrictions on how it could be used.

If you recieve something FREE of charge you are not required to buy something else to pay for what you recieved for free.

Stupid laws.

Re:Think cars! (2)

entrox (266621) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162773)

Having a bad business idea should not give you legal protection.
No, but having your product cracked by a competitor should.

the first and most obvious problem (1)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162742)

Apple should be either providing the software with the driver or selling the software.
If the software's FREE what do they expect, to get paid for it?

Now that they've applied that rule and sorted out the business model

Think Cars!

Re:Think cars! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162769)

And I`m supposed to give a sh*t? If they're going to use a flawed business model, that's their problem not mine.

Re:Think cars! (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162776)

If somebody now distributes some kind of adapter (patch) to Apples gilette to fit their own razors, then Apple would lose quite a bit of money, wouldn't they

Nope. They simply wouldn't gain as much. Giving away a freebie is a calculated risk. X% of people will use the manufacturers product because they know the brand. As long as X/100*profit_per_unit*sales > cost_of_freebie, they make money. If they don't give away the freebie then their total profit is zero.

Re:Think cars! (2)

Amarok.Org (514102) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162708)

It's nothing like what you described.

iDVD is the authoring tool, the expensive front end to a cheap piece of hardware. If you do this crack, you've essentially "stolen" (I hate to use the word, because it means so many different things in different contexts) Apple's R&D. You've got a product which you didn't pay for that was developed at great expense for the purpose of selling Apple hardware and modified it to work on non-Apple hardware. You've circumvented Apple's methods for protecting their R&D investment.

Re:Think cars! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162718)

Quoth the poster:
If I buy a car from ford, ford expect me to get the car fixed and repaired using only ford authorised mechnics and parts (which they make money on?).


A lot of people will do this, and it keeps the resale value of the car higher.

But, there's nothing to stop me using anyones parts and getting anyone to fix the car.

Apple is not stopping anyone from hooking up a non-apple DVD writer. The auto analogy is apt, but the real issue is more like the following: Will your local FORD dealer hack your control computer to allow non-Ford after-market fuel injection system (especially if Ford sells it as an option)? Maybe, but it probably depends on if you know someone in the service dept really well. Will Ford be unhappy about the local dealer doing it? Yes. Will they give the dealer a black mark for doing it? Yes.
The only difference here is that Apple use dumb law instead of extortion to exert control. In the absence of said dumb law, they could have just used extortion and threatened to remove the certified developer designation.

Re:Where's the problem? (1)

Claw919 (604849) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162695)

Quite honestly, that's an old and flawed argument.

Just because Apple wouldn't be making any money directly (eg. by the sale of their DVD writer drive itself), doesn't mean that other Apple-related purchases would be made. For example, RAM upgrades, etc.

Besides which, the case for the domination of the PC (which, by far, certainly wasn't been the most powerful hardware platform to have competed in the '80s) shows easily that it's all about convenience and sheer weight of numbers. Anything that allows Apple to sell more machines that run on their OSs only increases the probability that better applications will be written for them by third-parties - which increases the likelihood that people will be drawn to those machines in the future.

An even more obvious analogy is VHS vs. Betamax. The latter was a superior standard, but the number of installed VHS machines made it win the market race.

They are only trying to protect (0)

gsergiu (585096) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162603)

their intelectual property. Hmm, I think i've heard this before. Oh, well, thats life.

RIAAitus is catching (2)

haplo21112 (184264) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162604)

Seems like Apple has now joined those with the germ....I was getting close to considering apple cool for its unix factor, oh well I'll wait another 10 years for the next recovery of cool facotedr I guess.

wtf (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162605)

Step One: Exclude existing customer base while citing DMCA
Step Two: ???
Step Three: Profit!

heil apple (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162606)

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do they have a leg to stand on? (3, Interesting)

Borealis (84417) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162607)

I'm not familiar with the mac systems, but how the hell is this circumvent copy protection? While Apple obviously has these folks by the balls (since they primarily sell macs), I would think that this threat would be empty if somebody else decided to do it. Anybody have more info?

Re:do they have a leg to stand on? (2)

Quixadhal (45024) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162745)

That's the beauty of the DMCA... It doesn't have to really make sense. :)

If I add the line "This post is copy-protected by my YOU-NO-READ-ME encryption tags", and then you go ahead and read it anyways, you have technically circumvented my copy protection (which asked you not to read it), and are in violation of the DMCA.

So, basically, if you put any kind of restriction into a software (or hardware!) product, and someone gets around that restriction (even accidentally!), they are in violation of the DMCA. It has nothing to do with actual duplication, it's just the circumvention that matters.

Any questions citizen? Please place your tongue on the screen for identification...

What's the real APPL's agenda here ? (1)

defunc (238921) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162621)

Why do APPL care if a third party supplies software that allows their users to save iDVD projects to an external drive ? I am sure there are plenty of Mac users out there with no superdrive access. It's just beyond me, and makes me wonder what's is at stake here ? A way to sell more hardware or a really IP issue ...?

You would think... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162622)

You would think the profit on their pricey computer systems would be enough to warrant the software development costs. It's not like people are using iDVD on HP's or Compaqs, they're just using 3rd party external DVD drives on their Apple computers.

Think Different (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162627)

Or don't think too different, or our lawyers will beat you to a pulp.

It's funny how apple advertises with free speech heroes, but then use lawyers and an unfair law to stifle speech.

hardware specific? (1)

numbski (515011) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162629)

The problem is that I don't think that I've ever seen an instance where software was hardware restricted in such a way that it *could* work with other hardware, but only works with *their* hardware because it checks to make sure it belongs to them first.

I'm talking all platforms, not just Apple.

I think it's rather petty and childish, especially considering that there are little to no other alternatives for DVD burning on OS X outside of iDVD.

anyone?

Re:hardware specific? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162759)

Sure there has. I used to have a special edition of some CD-burning software, I forget what it was called, but it came free with the drive and would only work with that drive.

I had OCR software that came free with a scanner and only worked with that scanner.

Apple's motives here are clean, and correct. Anyone who thinks they're entitled to iDVD without buying the Apple hardware is a flat-out thief.

People are cheap (1)

Hanul (533254) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162637)

They always want it the cheapest way. Instead of buying a new Mac wit a Supderdrive, they try to upgrade they old crumpy machines to save some bucks. Man, an eMac with DVD burner is just $1.499. Don't hold to your money, give it away to Apple, they deserve it (and desperately need it). I mean that's only around $1.000 more than an external drive. What are $1.000 for those, who consider Macs anyway. And what's this with iDVD, don't you get some software with your drive to author DVDs?

using DCMA to facilitate JEW burning! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162641)

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where to get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162647)

Does anyone know where to get this patch?

Don't buy an Apple (0, Redundant)

MrFrank (261142) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162649)

I just wrote Apple informing them that I would no longer purchase one of there new iMacs. It a nice little machine but if this is the way they want to play, then they will not get my money.

Re:Don't buy an Apple (1)

avalys (221114) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162679)

Why? Because they actually want to profit from the time and effort that went into developing iDVD?

Re:Don't buy an Apple (2)

danheskett (178529) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162758)

No, because they use a corrupt, invalid, and utterly reprehensible law to do so.

The manner in which you operate is as important - or even more important - then your outcome or goal.

Re:Don't buy an Apple (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162680)

well they won't be paying your letter much heed if you keep spelling LIKE A JEW

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Re:Don't buy an Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162719)

Fine - but don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Translation (1, Flamebait)

JonTurner (178845) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162653)

Apple has sent out a warning to its customers: "We're no different than any other manufactuer, despite the proclamations of our marketing weasels. Don't get under the hood or your machine or attempt to use your hardware to it's potential or our attorneys will slap you down, bi-atch."

How far we've come from the days when The Woz actually encouraged hackers to experiment with the Apple. It looks like we're moving back to the closed architecture days of the early Mac. That's not good.

However, for me this is a blessing in disguise. After being Mac-free, Mac-clean, and Mac-sober for almost five years I was considering buying an iMac for home. I even went CompUSA and played around with one yesterday. However, this article snapped me out of my "Stephen Jobs field effect" judgement fog -- like an abused wife being shown pictures of her cuts and bruises this reminded me what it's like when Apple doesn't behave itself.

Thanks, Apple Computer, Inc. -- I was almost ready to relapse. I guess I'll just spend my quarterly bonus on a new p4 upgrade & a flatscreen for my PC where I can burn all the DVD's I want.

Oh, no! (1, Flamebait)

avalys (221114) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162662)

Oh yes, God forbid any company ever try to make money. That's not what they're there for - they should be giving us high-quality software for free!

As far as I know, Apple bundles iDVD only with Macs that come with a Superdrive. Obviously, they developed that package to promote it as a benefit of ordering that $200 option. They release it for free because they know they will profit from the SuperDrive sales.

Allowing someone to use iDVD without a SuperDrive is taking advantage of Apple's generosity - they don't have to give iDVD away for free. This patch allows people to basically steal from Apple - why is it so terrible for them to do something about it?

Re:Oh, no! (3, Informative)

pbrice68 (581968) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162738)

You are correct. iDVD is NOT a *free* program to just give to everyone. iDVD is part of the SuperDrive package. If you do not purchase an Apple SuperDrive, then you do not have rights to iDVD. You can purchase an internal SuperDrive after the fact form Apple to put in your Tower, and guess what, you get iDVD. OWC was freely distributing Apple's software, which was NOT free. On top of that, Apple must pay a licensing fee for every DVD encoder it ships. If Apple didn't bundle iDVD with the SuperDrive, but just gave it away freely, they would have to pay a licensing fee (you wouldn't, they would) for every copy shipped/downloaded. Imagine, they sold 20,000 SuperDrives, but 50,000 copies of iDVD were distributed? They'd be paying for other people *free* access to encoding DVD's. If you want to hack, hack. If you want to encode DVD's without proper authorization, encode. But wehy do you expect Apple to pay for you to do this? Jeesh...

Steve Jobs Quote of the day. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162666)

"I'd like to thank all the open source developers who proudly use the BSD license for the chance to take their source code, use it in my products and sell that code back to you in binary form. Without all your hard work I would be driving some old Ford Escort instead of this brand spanking new BMW M5 I'm driving today. Just think if you had used the GPL instead of the BSD license I would be out looking for a job just like all of you are today. I just love you guys." -Steve Jobs

Consumer vs Professional (2)

Stu Charlton (1311) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162670)

Please not Apple provides professional DVD burning software: DVD Studio Pro [apple.com], allowing you to burn on any drive for $1000.

Are they within their rights? Sure. Is this wrong? Perhaps.

IVAGINAL (4, Interesting)

stud9920 (236753) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162672)

Just a stupid question : could Microsoft use the same trick to disallow linux on the XBox ?

Re:IVAGINAL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162721)

Not as far as I understand, since the hardware isn't (and can't be?) covered by any kind of EULA.

Apple's "right", but... (2, Flamebait)

jht (5006) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162676)

The DMCA was the wrong club to use in closing this loophole.

iDVD is a nifty, free application that you get from Apple as a "reward" for buying an Apple-supplied DVD burner (the Superdrive). It just so happens that you get the Superdrive by buying a Mac that includes one. They don't sell it as an aftermarket accessory.

That's no surprise - as we've all debated to death here, Apple is not a software company or a peripheral company. They're a hardware vendor, and selling computers is how they make enough money to justify writing cool apps like iDVD and high-octane operating systems like MacOS X. If you patch their software (and not all Apple software is Open Source, just the core OS) to allow it to work with hardware they didn't intend it to, you're looking at Apple losing potential hardware sales.

There are other DVD authoring programs on the market, I'm sure - just not free ones from Apple. Oh well. If you want to use iDVD, buy a Mac with a Superdrive. Otherwise, buy your authoring program separately - that doesn't bug me at all.

However, using the DMCA warclub was stupid on their part. While effective, the DMCA is just the tool that pisses off folks like the Slashdot community - and in Apple's quest to boost market share and gain presence in the geek community those are good people to have on your side. OWC is a Apple dealer - a quick "come to Jesus" call from their Apple sales rep over the issue probably would have been sufficient to shut it down.

Bad PR move, Apple.

This is the last straw (0, Flamebait)

Jack Wagner (444727) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162693)

In conjunction with two other large companies who wish to remain anonymous at this time, Wagner Consulting LLC is instituting a Macintosh buyback program. We are offering $3,000 for any and all makes of Macintosh computers, no questions asked.

Simply contact one of my employees at 1-888-WAGNERC and they will provide you with the details on how to send your Mac to me for full payment. No longer will you need to be oppressed and chastized for your lack of computer knowledge. There is no need to feel ashamed and we won't ask for your name. I realize when you bought your Mac you were tricked into it with slick marketing and you just didn't know any better. Well now I'm here to help you.

I realize you will lose a little money on the deal but we have worked out a special with Dell Computers to receive a %20 discount on all Dells purchased when you show them you Wagner Consulting voucher. Bascially this will enable you to purchase two new faster Dells with more memory and hard drive space.

I plan on donating the obsolete Macs to a third world country.

Warmest regards,
--Jack

DMCA Challenge? (5, Interesting)

imadork (226897) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162697)

Excuse me while I put on my Apple Apologist hat for a moment...

This seems way too odd for Apple. While I don't recall them ever stating an explicit opinion on the DMCA, we know that they've embraced MP3s without restrictions, don't put Product Activation in their OS (and recently started selling a 5-license Family Pack of OS X for $200), and Steve Jobs has publically stated that Piracy (in relation to Music, but it can be extended to all media) is a social problem, not a technological one, and technical efforts to combat it will fail. In short, they haven't been the biggest proponent of draconian copyright protection measures.

Now, they seem to be invoking the DMCA to protect what seems to be a small revenue stream: people who already have Macs without an internal DVD burner and want to use iDVD with an external burner. Apple would rather have them buy a new Mac. Truth be told, however, lots of people in this position will buy a new Mac anyway. In truth, the number of people who would use this patch is quite small. Does Apple really think acting belligerent with third-party hardware vendors will lead to increased sales? Furthermore, what right does Apple have to limit their software to working on only internal drives when we all know that there's no technological reason for it? That sounds fishy to me, but totally legal under the DMCA.

The Conspiracy Theorist (and unabashed Apple fanatic) in me wants to believe that Apple knows that this action wouldn't hold water in court, and is trying to find a third-party who is big enough to challenge it, and get the DMCA overturned, so it can protect its future (and much bigger) revenue stream coming from Digital Hub-type applications and devices!

Then again, the realist in me believes that Apple is all in favor of a liberal approach to copyright protection only as long as it can make more money that way.

Re:DMCA Challenge? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162775)

stupid apple fag - I have a theory too. Steve got tired of giving it to all of you up the ass, so now he is giving you a donkeypunch and dirty sanchez as well.

dipshits - as much as the losers here complain about stealing musak and evil M$ - you penis birds are the true bitches of the computing world. "You want me to dress like a japanese school girl while you shove that icube up my ass Steve? Whatever gets you off steve!"

no it should be (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162706)

From the "Think Different" Dept.

some possible solutions? (2, Insightful)

xirtam_work (560625) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162712)

is for apple to allow OEM's to bundle a crippled version of iDVD which will only work with the manufacturers drive (like so many OEM cd burner software bundles). Apple could then licence each manufacturer/bundler to make extra money on the software, rather than buying it directly from Apple. After all, the margins on hardware aren't that great, and no-one is going to buy a brand new Mac just for the superdrive, especially if you just got one a few months back.

Another possible solution is for Apple to release their own external FireWire DVD-RW superdrive product and bundle iDVD with it.

There is other software that will work with 3rd party external drives, Final Cut Pro does as far as I know (but I could be wrong).

Also, couldn't Apple allow the sale and installation of Apple branded SuperDrives a Apple stores and authorised dealers as upgrades for G4 Macs? It's not as if there is a shortage of these drives at the moment. That way they could sell them at whatever cost they wanted.

I know these are not great solutions, the best solution would be for Apple to allow this kind of thing to happen and not cripple their software in this way, but hey, it's probably not going to happen.

A LAW IS A LAW! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162753)

why does everyone here seem to continually support the breaking of federal laws? speeding is selling drugs is murder is stealing copyrighted software and art.

If you ask me... (5, Interesting)

nochops (522181) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162755)

If you ask me, I say this is a good use of the DMCA. That's right, a good use.

Apple is using the law to prevent people from modifying it's software with a third-party patch that enables the software to do something it wasn't intended to do.

What's wrong with that? Picture the average Mac user who's gonna use this software. Now picture the same person when he burns a bunch of coasters, or the program keeps crashing, or something worse. Who's he gonna blame? Apple, because they made the iDVD software, right? Even though though it was the third-party patch that allowed him to run the software on unsupported hardware in the first place.

The fact is, unsupported means unsupported. It's as simple as that. You can bet your sweet ass that [insert company name here] doesn't want to hear about it when their Windows software doesn't work under Wine or Lindows. It's the same thing. Think of Wine as the "patch" that allows you to run the software in an unsupported environment.

I say cheers to apple for standing up for their rights.

Why no OS X on Intel (1, Troll)

chill (34294) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162756)

This also highlites why there is no OS X for Intel hardware. Apple makes by far most of its money selling machines. Apple does not sell Intel hardware. Apple couldn't get the same margins selling Intel hardware.

Remember, one of the first things Jobs did upon his return was to kill the recently authorized Mac Clone market.

Apple does what is in Apple's best interests -- selling more Apple hardware. NOT what is necessarily in the user's/dealer's best interest. Frequently there is an overlap, but when they DO conflict, Apple will always side with Apple.

There may eventually be an OS X for Intel, but it will take a major thought-process shift in the upper echelons of Apple.

A "crack", but how does the DMCA apply? (3, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162770)

IANAL, but patching a program to create a derivative work which has the ability to write to other CD-burners is extremely similar to a "crack" like you find in the warez community for crippleware demo versions. How the DMCA applies to this I don't understand, then again I get the impression you can apply it to almost anything.

Kjella

GrapeJews (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4162774)

DEATH TO ALL JEW NIGGERS

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Apple Good? Bad? (1)

killmenow (184444) | more than 11 years ago | (#4162779)

OK, first, is Apple bad today? I thought they were good just the other day?

Second, I think Apple has every right to tell a distributor or reseller that they have to stop selling Macs with patched versions of iDVD and non-Apple DVD burners. After all, Apple wrote the software and they make the rules if you want to be an authorized (by...guess who...Apple...tada!) distributor or reseller.

That being said, I think it's fscked up that Apple would cripple software that comes with its SuperDrives so that it won't work with alternative DVD burners.

I mean, if I bought a Mac with a SuperDrive thereby getting iDVD, then I bought a different DVD burner from a third party...well, Apple's already got my money...and there's no reason iDVD shouldn't be allowed to work on the new drive as well...other than Apple is being pissy about it.

But then, I doubt Apple is going after people in this case. They just don't want dealers selling Macs without SuperDrives but including iDVD and the crack.

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  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
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