Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Google Disappears In China

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the man-vs.-state dept.

Censorship 334

An anonymous reader submits: "The censorship in China was finally getting better since people were 'allowed' to read the CNN news now (except for certain articles). But since this weekend it seems that a new web page has been censored in China. Since this weekend it looks like everyone in China is not 'allowed' to use google.com anymore. google.com was also gaining populairity in China as the better search engine (which also works fine in Chinese). But now I guess it got too popular and thus not allowed. Or does it have anything to do with Yahoo signing the agreement to censor?" Comments to yesterday's post "Real-Time Testing of China's Internet Filters" also noted that Google has gone missing within China.

cancel ×

334 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Slashdot still readable (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182764)

I guess they wouldn't ban their communist propaganda sites... makes sense. Praise the motherland, comrade Taco.

Re:Slashdot still readable (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182789)

That was the funniest comment I've read all day.

Re:Slashdot still readable (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182811)

Starting testing... [harvard.edu]
Stage one testing complete.
Stage two testing complete.

Testing complete for http://slashdot.org. Result:
Reported as accessible in China

Re:Slashdot still readable (2, Funny)

Stalyn (662) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182942)

Starting testing...
Stage one testing complete.
Stage two testing complete.

Testing complete for http://www.asianhookers.com. Result:
Reported as accessible in China

and the nation of China rejoices.

FP! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182765)

Could it be, a Fork Pork waiting for me like this?

Yahoo! also dropping Google this weekend? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182766)

That's what some people think [webmasterworld.com] anyway. Seems they've heavily de-emphasized Google in their searches, and in the past, they've used holiday weekends for similar switchovers. Time will tell...

well (1)

neo8750 (566137) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182767)

this is not the first site they blocked so whats big deal? FP..

Cache (5, Insightful)

Stormie (708) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182769)

Surely it's because Google's cache would allow people inside the Great Firewall to read all manner of banned web pages?

Re:Cache (1)

BrookHarty (9119) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182820)

At our work the filtering proxy blocks images.google.com due to porn reasons. They tried to block hotmail, but our marketing uses it, lol..

Re:Cache (1)

Istealmymusic (573079) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182910)

Really? I would have supposed a more elegant solution would be to force a Moderate SafeSearch [google.com] cookie value, which could be easily accomplished through HTTP tunnels and Squid/SOCKS proxies. I don't know what your marketing department is doing in their spare time, but I haven't been able to squeeze a single erotic pic out of Google's safe image search.

Re:Cache (1)

packeteer (566398) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182964)

"I haven't been able to squeeze a single erotic pic out of Google's safe image search"... i feel sorry for you... and im not talking about your failure with google

Re:Cache (1)

jsse (254124) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182932)

Caches can be removed, the question is whether Google would agree to:
1) Remove the caches containing stuffs sensitive to China Government, even though the requester is the China Government itself not the owners(citizens)?
2) Remove those usenet archives [google.com] which contain sensitive matter as well?

Unless Google spams another company in China which contain exactly the same database as the original Google but without the stuffs China Government doesn't like, otherwise there's very little chance Google would contain to exist there.

Re:Cache (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182971)

Do you mean sites like this? [google.com]

the reason (5, Insightful)

GoatPigSheep (525460) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182771)

Google's cached page feature could give anyone in china the ability to see any censored sites (or at least older copies).

Re:the reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182801)

what idiot modded this redundant

Re:the reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182809)

The same one that'll probably mod this off-topic later.

Re:the reason (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182822)

its impossible for the 6th comment to a story to be redundant, you would have to post the comment immediatly to even have it 6th.

But most people on slashdot are morons anyway

p2p (4, Interesting)

asv108 (141455) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182772)

Maybe google labs can whip up a quick p2p client that will allow people to use google in places where it is blocked.

Re:p2p (5, Informative)

Nihilanth (470467) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182823)

It's called "Peek-A-Booty", created by the Cult of the Dead Cow. A fine bit of hacktivism inspired, if i'm not mistaken, by just this sort of behavior.

How long before we'll be forced to use it ourselves, i wonder?

Re:p2p - not possible (1)

CreatorOfSmallTruths (579560) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182936)

p2p isn't possible if the guys who rule the Great Firewall know what they are doing (which brings on an interesting question... who rules the rulers? somewhere in China are people who are VERY CLOSE to the power that be... I wonder where they surf...)
You probably ask "why isn't it possible" and the answer is pretty simple: by working over TCP/IP you have to send all of the data in some recognizble protocol ( a format in which both the client and the server knows how to read and what to read ) and therefor all you have to do is block the packets who looks like they belong the p2p mechanism (and any other packets you don't like).

Re:p2p - not possible (1)

BitHive (578094) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182968)

all you have to do is block the packets who looks like they belong the p2p mechanism

It's called "encryption", and I believe it would avoid this.

Google's cache (0, Redundant)

42sd (557362) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182773)

Is it possible that google's cache allows the Chinese to view 'forbidden' websites?

Re:Google's cache (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182790)

Yes :P

Re:Google's cache (0)

Simon (S2) (600188) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182853)

yep. the firewall (probably) works on the ips of sites. cached sites would have the ip of google.

Google API to the rescue? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182778)

Using the Google API, someone else could setup a Google gateway/proxy sort of thing. It could do searches, and even retrieve cached information on pages. And, the thing is, China would never know where one of these API gateways would pop-up. Only limiting factor would be the 1000 queries per day. I bet a billion Chinese can go through those in no time!

Re:Google API to the rescue? (3, Informative)

Istealmymusic (573079) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182860)

This has been done. And of course, a Google proxy could require the chinks to enter their personal soap key, or even request Google generate one on-the-fly and mail it to a Chinese mail account, assuming .cn SMTP's have yet to RTBL Google.

I am more interested in Google search via phone, as done by Google voice search [google.com] . In theory, someone could set up a VoiceXML 2.0 service outside China's borders on a network such as Tellme Studio [tellme.com] , avoiding the complexity of the Internet. Too bad the Chinese government has a monopoly on telco (which is why they block Net2Phone).

Google.cn? (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182783)

Why doesn't Google set up a bunch of servers operating within China, behind Chinese firewalls, so that Google cannot index or cache pages the government doesn't approve of?

They could call it google.cn...

Re:Google.cn? (1)

notanatheist (581086) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182798)

or google.com/china. Surely y'all know of google.com/linux, google.com/bsd, google.com/mac. Just start the same for countries too. Has China banned microsoft.com yet? :) That'd make my list quickly.

Re:Google.cn? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182902)

Well they already have Google Deutschland, [google.de] Google Italia, [google.it] and even Google Lietuvos, [google.lt] so google.cn makes the most sense.

Re:Google.cn? (1)

packeteer (566398) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182972)

do a quick search on www.google.com/linux for "bsd" brings you to slashdot... slashdot is the ruler of all things BSD/Linux

Re:Google.cn? (3, Funny)

sinserve (455889) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182812)

Google is run by hackers, not businessmen, I doubt they would do such an immoral thing.

Re:Google.cn? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182882)

I don't see it as all that immoral. That's just the way things work in China, and certainly Google of all organizations can't do anything about it.

But Google could be a valuable service to the Chinese. So better to have censored Google than no Google at all.

Re:Google.cn? (3, Informative)

Istealmymusic (573079) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182895)

They could call it google.cn...

No they couldn't. CN NIC [cnnic.net.cn] gives out third-level domains only. Second-level domains (SLDs) of the cn TLD are fixed at one of com, net, org, gov, ac, bj, sh, tj, cg, he, sx, nm, as well as ln, jl, hl, and also the domains js, zj, ah, fj, jx, not to mention sd, ha, hb, hn, gd, don't forget gx, hi, sc, gz, yn, xz, sn, yet theres more gs, gh, nx, xj, tw, hk, or mo.

These regional domains where originally intended to provide censorship of finer granularity, as to match the legislation or lack thereof in specific providences of China.

Waitaminute (4, Funny)

shepd (155729) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182786)

Goatse.cx [harvard.edu] is A-OK by Chinese authorities, but google isn't?

Wow... now that's what I call a strange can of worms.

Re:Waitaminute (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182796)

No, I don't have over 1000 slashdot comments. That's because I don't post horse-shit three times a day.

Re:Waitaminute (1, Redundant)

lpontiac (173839) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182810)

Goatse.cx [harvard.edu] is A-OK by Chinese authorities, but google isn't?

China has a problem with political speech, free flow of ideas, dissent and the like. I doubt the inside of a man's rectum rates as highly on their scale of things that should be oppressed.

Re:Waitaminute (2, Funny)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182938)

For the good of humanity, it ought to be.

Re:Waitaminute (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182835)

Dude! That script is awesome!

Apparently Slashdot is blocked (must be all those YRO stories about China...), but everything2.com isn't (you all remember DMan?)... Contrary to what I've been hearing, nytimes.com works. And chinasucks.com isn't blocked either.

I wonder if I should put up a website that says, "CHINA SUCKS KILL THE GOVERNMENT" repeatedly and see how long it would take for it to be banned...

Goatse's at harvard? (3, Funny)

wirefarm (18470) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182953)

Goatse.cx [harvard.edu] is A-OK by Chinese authorities, but google isn't???

Goatse's at harvard?
I figued that guy was from Yale...

They can still use google. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182788)

Do it through the wayback machine.

Google Banned in China (1)

rela (531062) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182791)

Is anybody even remotely surprised?

Absolutely untrue! (3, Funny)

Nathdot (465087) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182795)

I just tried typing "China" at google.com and I got 24,300,000 results.

Whoever said that china disappearred from google was a complete fucking liar. :)

Re:Absolutely untrue! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182803)

"China not in Google" != "Google not in China"

Re:Absolutely untrue! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182804)

They said Google disappeared from China, not China disappeared from Google. Don't post drunk.

Re:Absolutely untrue! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182909)

You have obviously had a humourectomy.

Don't post anymore. Slashbot doesn't need anymore twats.

Re:Absolutely untrue! (2)

Istealmymusic (573079) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182918)

If you don't want them I'll take em.

Enjoy your sausage fest.

Blocked? Just use google (5, Funny)

MavEtJu (241979) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182806)

It's available from Googles cache [216.239.53.100] .

Err... Never mind.

Re:Blocked? Just use google (1)

TC (WC) (459050) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182891)

Hehe... taken from the standard google cache disclaimer:

Google is not affiliated with the authors of this page nor responsible for its content.

Re:Blocked? Just use google (1)

Nept (21497) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182944)

The cache of Google's main page will come up, but once you run the search, nothing will come up.

The Way Back Machine (2, Interesting)

ender-iii (161623) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182808)

Has China banned The Way Back Machine [archive.org] yet?

Thank God I'm an American? (1)

DavesError (550952) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182813)

Reading news like this makes me glad I'm an American...

But it also makes me a little scared. After reading some of the articles about how Americans are becoming so willing to give up their freedoms for a sense of security [slashdot.org] , I'm afraid that America could very easily slip into this same type of bullsh*t. Don't people see that we need to fight for our freedoms?

Hail free speech!
(I want to be able to keep my porn!)

Re:Thank God I'm an American? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182875)

stuff a sock in it jackass. tards like you give the U.S. a bad name. Please stay in your parents' basement until you get a clue.

Score! (1)

DavesError (550952) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182946)

I knew I could grab some flames from someone.

Thanks man!

Re:Thank God I'm an American? (2)

MillionthMonkey (240664) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182940)

Reading news like this makes me glad I'm an American...

Then read this. [slashdot.org]

Rumors (5, Insightful)

jsse (254124) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182818)

There's no source, no reference; just a wild rumors from an anonymous coward. I don't believe /. editors would down to spreading FUD for a few extra hits.

In China there are some search engines like Yam [yam.com] which is google based and use google's queries. Even if you haven't heard of Yam, you might have heard of a China based search engine company suing Yahoo for stealing queries. Yam is more popular than Google here.

If they block Google they might have to block Yam as well, which would then be a real chaos. :)

Not Rumors (5, Interesting)

Istealmymusic (573079) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182847)

Here's your reference [harvard.edu] :
Starting testing...

Stage one testing complete.
Stage two testing complete.

Testing complete for http://google.com/. Result:
Reported as inaccessible in China

Yam is accessible, and so is Yahoo.

Too bad China overlooked Google proxies [soapclient.com] ...they exist you know.

Re:Rumors (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182849)

FYI, Yam is in Taiwan, not in China.

Re:Rumors (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182926)

China owns Taiwan [kuro5hin.org] . You two are both correct.

Fight The Man (3, Informative)

Istealmymusic (573079) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182829)

I fully support Wayne's Proxy Censorship Avoidance Site, which is quoted as saying:
I am an advocate of free speech, full disclosure etc., of course. But that's not all. The Internet wizards are watching this censorship movement overall and think they have it under control. They have
built in low-level protocols (in very clever ways) which ensure that censorship cannot work . But, in my opinion, they have forgotten that most people don't have their skills or knowledge. Sure, unless a country 'cuts the wire' there are ways to bypass the censorship. Sure, if there's an information flow into and out of a country, you can always get information you want, in spite of any attempt at censorship - and do it undetected. BUT it requires skills. Very few sites on the Internet tell you how to do it. This site attempts to redress this deficiency.
So, as long as China has Internet, the Chinese can circumvent censorship. Unfortunately, this creates sort of a chicken-and-egg problem, where Chinese are uneducated thanks to government censorship, and thus do not possess the required knowledge to bypass censor systems. I provide the following links for those interested:

To the Chinese Government: don't think you can get away with this. We are watching you. Remember the IIS fuck China worm? Remember when Americans penetrated Chinese censorship sites [wired.com] . One particularly activist group is the Cult of The Dead Cow, as they are involved with a US-Canada-Europe anti-China-human-rights-abuses hacking group [wired.com] , the Hong Kong Blondes.

Its only a matter of time until the Internet disappears in China, and the Chinese government succumbs under its own agenda.

From inside the lines :) (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182831)

Google access decreased steadily the whole of last week.

First it was www.google.com that went down, then the country specific versions, now the wwwN.google.com types.

IP addresses work for viewing, but a get/post doesn't work, so no searching.

From what I can see, the firewall is just dropping packets on those ports at the 80,443 addresses.

You can ping google, and see what open ports are on, but a raw GET on port 80 or 443 does nothing.

Net Scan returns this:

IP Address : 216.239.51.100
Resolved : www.google.com
Operating System : probably Unix
Time to live (TTL) : 42 (64) - 22 hop(s) away

Open Ports (2)
80 [ Http => World Wide Web, HTTP ]
H 400 Bad Request
Content-Length: 1210
Connection: Close
Server: GWS/2.0
Content-Type: text/html
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 06:45:23 GMT
443 [ HttpS => Secure HTTP ]

Looks like its back to the dark old days of proxy's again.

Lawrence

www.shanghaiguide.com

Internet vs. Governments (2, Interesting)

ceeam (39911) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182839)

I wonder who will ultimately win?
Or better make it this way - for how long peer connections will be possible?

Re:Internet vs. Governments (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182854)

"The senseless waste of pitting these two mighty forces of nature against each other, like matter vs. anti-matter, will be a tragedy, not only for the teams involved... but for our planet. All nations must band together, to ensure that such a conflageration never takes place."

sourceforge.net is also forbidden (2, Informative)

bash99 (605645) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182844)

any site provide free webpage hosting will be forbidden soon, even just for free software.

Re:sourceforge.net is also forbidden (2)

jsse (254124) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182963)

is it due to the fact that sourceforge host something like that [sourceforge.net] which would really piss China Government?

Slashdot is not blocked [harvard.edu] , so is gnu.org [harvard.edu] .

Hmm, may be I shouldn't speak too loud. :)

More on the Great Firewall of China (5, Informative)

wumingzi (67100) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182851)

Every year or so, I get to rewrite this article, because it seems to continue to be regarded as news.

The government of the PRC, through Zhonghua Telecom, continues to filter traffic going in and out of China.

The filters do not work. This is old news. Proxy servers are everywhere.

Here's the secret which doesn't seem to have gotten out of China yet, the filters don't have to work. They're not designed for the users.

Contrary to popular belief, China is not run as an absolute dictatorship. It's run by a circle of maybe a few dozen people who's opinions really matter. Like any good-sized group, there's a lot of disagreeement about how much (or little) openness there should be to the rest of the world.

The filters exist to appease the more close-minded members of the circle and to let them know that the best efforts are being made to keep bad stuff out of the minds of users.

My best guess about Google disappearing is that one [sina.com.cn] or more [sohu.com] companies [263.net] who are providing portal and search services in China have been complaining to the Ministry of the Information Industry [mii.gov.cn] about loss of market share to Google. The solution? If Google gets blocked, the market share for locally-produced Chinese portals goes up!

Is this good policy? No. Probably not. I've seen protectionist policy used all over the world and it's generally not the consumer or even the producers who benefit. It's a few well-placed friends of the folks in power. At least in this case, there's always another open proxy server which someone "forgot" to close up to work around this bit of government silliness.

Happy hunting all!

j.

Re:More on the Great Firewall of China (3, Interesting)

evbergen (31483) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182970)

Ah, now I finally understand why there are so many open proxies in China and why I get so much spam through them!

Interesting. If they're indeed left open for that reason, I'd almost change my opinion of the admins running them...

Shouldn't this scare the shit out of you? (5, Funny)

Qbertino (265505) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182855)

Hellooo? McFly? Anybody home?
They are blocking 2 Billion + people of an Internetsite that's something like the cornerstone of online information!
Don't you also think that a lot of powerpeople in the US and elsewhere envy the chinese powermongers for this? What will the world look like in 10 years from now, when books are getting scarce and drm is all over us like a polyester safari suit and each of us will be paying hard bucks only to view data - and even that will be censored?
Pretty grim if you ask me...
What I'm saying is: This is not the least bit funny!

Cornerstone? (0)

djupedal (584558) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182870)

You can't be serious. Rankings on google can be bought for a fee....what kind of societly cornerstone are you worshiping that's made of USD? Don't be such a chicken little.

Re:Cornerstone? (3, Informative)

Zagadka (6641) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182915)

Rankings on google can be bought for a fee....

No they can't. [google.com]

Conflicting Results.... (2, Interesting)

Fallen Kell (165468) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182856)

The Real-Time Testing of Internet Filters in China is reporting conflicting results.

In the recent results box:
http://www.google.com - Reported as inaccessible in China
http://www.google.com - Reported as accessible in China

Tests were completed within a few minutes of each other (I know because I did them both).

Re:Conflicting Results.... (0)

djupedal (584558) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182862)

That site is not to be trusted (unreliable)...if you want to know, ask someone inside China to test for you.
I did....

Re:Conflicting Results.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182892)

Weird. We have an easy way around this. Our office in Beijing needed a WAN link back to London. We got slapped down on it but they would allow for a WAN link to Hong Kong. We we installed the WAN to our office in HK and added a port to the router. Simple, uncensored internet access via London.

wayaroundit (0)

djupedal (584558) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182908)

Eaxctly :0 You and 1000 other businesses since 1990....

So that's where he is.... (0, Troll)

idiotnot (302133) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182857)

I guess Jim Exon has moved to Bejing.

Propoganda (-1, Redundant)

djupedal (584558) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182859)

Webster's defines propoganda as: "Any widespread promotion of particular ideas" -

I'd say since a ranking on google can be bought for a fee, it's as much propoganda as any other source from any other country. Why should China buy into yet another western myth? MS splashscreens the hell out of their OS, and no one complains about that version of mind control. Western TV floods the airwaves with photos of paper-thin models, denouncing fat as the enemy. Why should a country that decides to curtail such hype be chastised? China will get along just fine by their own motives and choices. Any westerner that thinks they live a better life in terms of freedom of thought should look closer at the layout of their favorite daily newspaper.

Re:Propoganda (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182945)

your propaganda doesn't wash here. google does not sell placement. their ads are clearly marked as such, and do not appear mixed in with the results. get your facts strait, bucko!

If I wanted to censor web content (2)

jukal (523582) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182871)

...I would use a list of allowed sites, instead a list of creating a black list. Also I would assume there would be more to block than allow. Use same principles as when setting up a firewall :)

Anyway, I wish China could realize and use this (internet) as a chance to stop censorship without loosing their face.

censorship--it's all the rage (2)

g4dget (579145) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182872)

So, China doesn't like its citizens to see subversive or immoral content on the Internet. The US sends in the FBI when people look at the latest Windows distribution, teenagers having sex, or a bootlegged Britney Spears video on the Internet.

In my opinion, both the US and China have, in different ways, crossed the line of what is reasonable in terms of controlling on-line information. Both societies seem to be driven by irrational fear, and neither is afraid to crush people with the full force of the respective government and police force.

(What would be reasonable you ask? In the US, copyright violations should be treated as civil matters, not criminal matters. Tax payers shouldn't have to pay for enforcing conformance to bizarre contractual obligations imposed by companies like Microsoft.)

Re:censorship--it's all the rage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182917)

perhaps the difference is that the U.S. does not shoot its criminals in the head without a trial and then make the "criminal's" family pay for the bullet. You don't think this happens in China? Ask any tibetan.

Re:censorship--it's all the rage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182925)

... which is much the same argument against there being a left and right side to politcs. you go so far in either direction that you end up on the other side.

Re:censorship--it's all the rage (5, Insightful)

fireboy1919 (257783) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182948)

Yeah...why, just the other day, a friend of mine was "censored" when the army came and took him away for publically speaking out against the government. Later, there was a report on the news that he was to be imprisoned, tortured, and shot.

He was part of a rally in Times Square, and they arrested him. Sucks that we live in a country without peaceable assembly.

Wait...I think it was actually someone I didn't know who was killed in Tiananmen square [christusrex.org] for a pro-democracy demonstration.

I think I got it straight now. The US is NOTHING like China when it comes to censorship. We don't imprison and kill people because we don't like what they say. We certainly don't use full force; on the contrary, our main censorship punishment is fines, or at the very most, a minimum security prison sentence. Of course, you have to consider that we are not trying to censor, our goal is to avoid copyright violations. You can say anything you want, as long as it isn't libel (untrue statement of FACTS - all opinions are allowed).

Don't belittle our freedom or China's suffering by such a comparison.

In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182879)

As of September 2nd 2002, the United States Internet [google.com] surpasses the China Internet [google.com] by a tenfold. Rebuild China Internet [cnnic.net.cn] today.

Time for google.cn! (2)

MavEtJu (241979) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182899)

It's time for a pragmatic approach: The people at Google should get in touch with the people from the Chinese Government Networking Services and get a deal done for hosting a mirror (mirror? link? whatever) inside the Chinese part of the Internet.

It's ideal in a couple of ways:

- The 1+ billion people (yes I know that they don't have all access to the internet) have access to a good working search-engine. Even if it's without the "view cache" feature, at least they have the search-engine.

- The traffic of the 1+ billion people searching through the Google database doesn't have to go over the ocean toward the US anymore (yes I know that US ISPs don't pay for the intercontinental links)

- (think of some other advantages yourself)

Of course, the first thing what is going to be said now is "Who is going to pay for this?"...

Re:Time for google.cn! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182924)

how about we american companies don't make it easy for an oppressive and immoral regime to perpetuate its evil on its own citizens?

Big deal, use google.ca or yam.com instead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182911)



Use google.ca or yam.com instead.

They don't seem to be blocked in China.

Which is better: censorship or propaganda (5, Interesting)

jukal (523582) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182912)

I don't like censorship. But I also don't like the fact that in the countries that allow free speech, the biggest megaphones are controlled by only a very small group of companies and individuals.

Basicly, if the media wants, they can brainwash majority of people in believing anything they want.

In the case of censorship, you know atleast, that you don't have access to unbiased information - and you know that if you want to create an unbiased opinion, you need to do it yourself.

But, as we have free speech, it is easy to leave thinking to the media, and let someone else form your opinion. So, to some extent, I think that the fact that media is controlled by tiny interest groups, is maybe even a bigger threat than censorship.

Re:Which is better: censorship or propaganda (2, Insightful)

lux55 (532736) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182928)

At least in our case (being uncensored), our main form of censorship is self-censorship. This is a choice. It's a choice people are all too willing to make these days, but at least the few of us willing to excercise our rights and our brains to form our own opinions (amidst the constant bombardment of media pressure) have the right to do so.

You raise an interesting point though. +5 from me.

To hell with Google. (2)

Perdo (151843) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182914)

Sourceforge is blocked but IBM's Developer center is not.

We will never see the benefit of IBM's 1 billion dollar investment in Linux because the majority of that investment is in China which is blocked by Cisco for China.

Hate to sound like chicken little but it shure looks like IBM is hijacking GNU/Linux.

What difference does it make if source is posted if it never makes it out of the country?

And just because China is free with other people's intellectual property does not mean they are free with their own.

google.ca (2)

Cplus (79286) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182916)

Everytime I type google.com in I get redirected to google.ca. I've deleted my cookies, rebooted my browser, tried again, same thing. Does google redirect me according to my ip which would be in a range specific to Canada? This bothers me on a subtle level, but also makes me think about why there is no google.cn, that's all.

Re:google.ca (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182927)

it's because you live in canada, dude.

yahoo (1)

dirvish (574948) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182919)

Yahoo uses google for part of its searching now so the Chinese could use it and get similar results.

The /. editors are going to this site banned also if they keep posting stories about China.

Re:yahoo (2)

saihung (19097) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182975)

Its bad enough that the Chinese gov't can silence their own media. I wouldn't want to live in a world where fear of getting "banned" can silence the truth. This ain't 1650 - the emperor can't revoke our trading privileges for refusing to ketou. If China wants the foreign press to stop reporting bad things about China, then they should take it easy on their own citizens. We're not going to shut up.

Not Quite (2)

Nept (21497) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182923)

Thank god for Google Labs [google.com] , once again. You can run a search off of Keyboard Shortcuts, and take advantage of cached copies, etc. Some of the images that were on the main google server don't come up. But hey, it works. Also, Google Images/Google Directory & Google Groups still work.
I'm currently in China right now on a project, and coding without Google is not easy - especially since there isn't any english bookstore I can run over to while I'm here to pick up a tech manual.
But maybe I shouldn't be posting this? I guess this is a good chance to see if the Chinese government reads /. :)

It's not news, so what? (1)

fateswarm (590255) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182933)

Why do some people want from Slashdot to have 0-day news? Isn't it enough nobody really mentions such things on other news reports? gawd.. I hate to see these "It's not really news so what" in every single news article. Did you really know it? Perhaps not. Have you ever talked about it on a news site that allows you to write your comments? Perhaps not.

Elite dislike the internet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182957)

Not good to have people learning about stuff. Expect similar things in the US. All governments are deeply interested in having a hand in what their people think about. The internet is making that a difficult task.

This [chron.com] is the sort of thing you probably aren't seeing in the mainstream press.

These suits [infowars.com] are becoming popular with police forces. Have something you don't like about the government and want to hold a peaceful protest? Kinda makes you think twice. Which is the desired effect of the scary looking suits. This is the United States in 2002. Really.

Quote (3, Insightful)

Raul654 (453029) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182958)

When I read articles like this, a quote from Alpha Centauri (the video game) comes to mind:

As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
Commissioner Pravin Lal
"U.N. Declaration of Rights"


And every one of these articles I see reinforces that belief.

god or someone else bless us... (1, Insightful)

z01d (602442) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182966)


slashdot finally post this story on the fp...
i feel both gratified and worrying [slashdot.org]

the 16th All-Hands meeting of CCP [sina.com.cn] will be held on 18th Nov at BeiJing, it will announce the fourth core-leader of the party (the first three is Mao, Deng, Jiang), the political battle just run in white hot. you can image how could this be, in a autarchy. currently, they are very sensitive about the public media, as well as the internet, this is so called "the very period", that's why google has been banned. it's quite understandable(not acceptable) from my point of view (No, i'm not brainwashed), google will be ok after this year.

my respect goes to google
for their disobedience

my useless indignation goes to Cisco [newsmax.com] and Yahoo! [slashdot.org]
for their "commercial operation"

god or someone else bless us...
free speech rulz

Help the Chinese learn to use Peekabooty (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4182976)

Normally I don't post as A.C. but I don't want the Chinese to know what I'm up to because they might firewall my web site.

I am helping a friend in China get set up to use Peekabooty [peekabooty.org] .

The way it works is basically that lots of people outside the firewall run proxy servers. People inside the firewall need to get Peekabooty's IP address list, and then they select a proxy to use. You can get the host.lst file from http://pabdb.cjb.net/ [cjb.net] .

Their web browsing is private because the connection to the proxy uses SSL encryption. The chinese will think you're shopping online. If they try to block the SSL port, then China will be unable to participate fully in the world economic system, increasingly so in the next few years.

The problem is that if Peekabooty's website isn't already blocked, it certainly will be soon. To avoid stimulating the interest of the authorities, I am making arrangements for my friend and I to have an encrypted conversation where I will tell him what he needs to do.

The peekabooty proxy runs on windows, but there is a linux port in progress. The people inside the firewall don't need to install any software, only configure their browser to use one of the SSL proxies.

It would be helpful for people to mirror Peekabooty's documentation and the IP address list. Likely many of the mirrors won't be blocked and so the chinese (and the Singaporeans, and residents of many Muslim countries) can access the information.

If you personally know anyone inside a firewalled country, do your part by helping them learn to use peekabooty. But find a way to arrange to tell them how while using encryption.

Unfortunately, PGP messages are pretty obvious that they're encrypted. If someone starts sending and receiving them, the authorities might take notice even of that.

But most web browsers nowadays support 128-bit SSL encryption. Thus it is possible to arrange to have a conversation with someone via SSL encrypted form submission.

There doesn't appear to be a way right now to do this, but it is being worked on.

In the meantime, mirroring the peekabooty instructions and proxy list and making the URL's available where the Chinese might pick them up will help get things started.

Poor Bastards! (1)

Perdo (151843) | more than 11 years ago | (#4182977)

Autopr0n is blocked!
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>