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Keep Playing With AI

Hemos posted more than 12 years ago | from the learning-from-you dept.

Games 175

An anonymous reader writes "The BBC reports how a newly developed AI system 'learns' your playing behavior and can even play for you when its time to take out the garbage or do other non-essential things around the house. My only question is if it could even learn to bs for me on those laggy starcraft 3v3 games."

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Hah (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195060)

first good morning post. slashdot trolls are the laughingstock of the internet. do some google searchin.

GwB already uses this... (-1)

Adolf Hitroll (562418) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195242)

But his AI-alter-ego just focussed on agressing Iraq since he got his head stuck in his anus !

Re:GwB already uses this... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195299)

Did someone say anus [goatse.cx] ?

hmmmm (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195061)

Wonder if it could learn how to F1rst P0st?

FP for Taco (-1)

CreamOfWheat (593775) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195062)

This is for you little boy molesting freal Cmdr Taco

Thank you but. . (1, Flamebait)

alnapp (321260) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195063)

I've already got friends to play with

Al

Re:Thank you but. . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195158)

I don't believe you. The blow-up dolls don't count as friends even if they all have names.

Re:Thank you but. . (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195265)

This is slashdot. They would be male blow up dolls.

Re:Thank you but. . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195484)

Yes, but now I can play with my real friends *and* my imaginary friends!! ::looks to empty space to right:: Aren't you happy, Bob?!

I hate all you linux loving homos (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195064)

and i wish ebola on you and your dog..

Microsoft rules!!!

signed,
Bill Gates

n/s (-1, Offtopic)

U R TEH SUX (605335) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195065)

n/m

Work Related: #@ +1 ; Innovative @# (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195067)

If only the behavior could be transferred to
a facsimile at work!!

Be Patriotic: Smoke Amerikan Grown Marijuana!

Oh goodie (1)

Anonymous Cowtard (573891) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195070)

Great... I think I'd rather have an AI that plays better than me than one that can find previously unheard of ways to meet its demise like I can.

FP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195071)

I doubt it.

Anyway, soon we will have AI that can play our computer games for us and we will be able to spend out time doing worthwhile things.

Re:FP? (1)

gilesjuk (604902) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195200)

What happened to using AI for useful things like doing all the chores around the house? research has proven that housework isn't good for you.

RE: BS for you during the game. (2)

AltGrendel (175092) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195073)

Something like this? [penny-arcade.com]

Re: BS for you during the game. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195081)

So you could have the comp leveling up your MMORPG characters... not bad!

Taking out the trash... (5, Insightful)

Ratface (21117) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195074)

I would prefer that the AI took out the garbage so that *I* can continue playing my game ;-)

Besides which, who wants to give up their game for "someone" else to play. I mean it would be bad enough coming back from running an errand and finding that your sibling/gf/friend has died and put you back to the start let alone your friend. Or even that they've managed to get you past the point you've been banging your head against for ages so that now you feel cheated at not having achieved the goal yourself.

Nope, I think the "pause" button is not going to be replaced by an AI any time soon.

Re:Taking out the trash... (1)

DonkeyJimmy (599788) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195123)

I think the application is for online games where pausing is either rude, impossible, or the other team can simply unpause for you (the case in the craft games).

I think this is a great idea. It's not made to play the entire game, just to hold out long enough for the chore/phonecall/whatever to be finished such that you haven't falled AS far behind.

Sure it wont be as good as us. And if the opponent finds out your on the phone, a feign to your ally followed by a strong attack to you will probably work every time (not that that ever fails against humans). But if they don't know, and don't try to exploit it, it'll be fine. In any case you'll be better off then nothing.

Re:Taking out the trash... (0)

mwjlewis (602559) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195459)

Maybe it is just me, but If you are in the middle of a game, why are you pausing it to take out the trash, Shouldn't you have taken care of that before you started.

Second. I don't want to play against AI or a drone or whatever. I want to play the person(s) that I started playing against.

The phone rings- You have an awnsering machine. The doorbell- Pause the game. IT is only just a game. (but honestly, how often does the door bell ring, and... when you are expecting someone/thing/beer/pizza delivery guy, don't start the game till you are done.

Mom calls you for dinner. (HAHA) move out. Or eat it COLD.

If the game is going to play for me... (5, Funny)

jsonmez (544764) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195075)

Then I want it to play the best strategy, not do the same stupid stuff I do wrong...

Re:If the game is going to play for me... (2)

Da VinMan (7669) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195480)

That's the whole point. It's simulating your presence with the assumption that if you were there that you would make the same mistakes (stupid or otherwise) that you would normally make.

If you just want to face off the AIs, that's a whole 'nuther story.

Does EVERYTHING have to be automated?! (1)

Hackura (603389) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195076)

What is this world coming to if we have a COMPUTER to play our COMPUTER GAMES. I thought these things were for fun, and that people enjoyed playing games THEMSELVES! What was I thinking?

Re:Does EVERYTHING have to be automated?! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195198)

Yes... yes it does... because if we add AI to the mix we can remove the driving control from vehicles and keep the braindead morons that populate and clog and smear themselves all over the highways from trying to use the feeble mind of theirs to control that vehicle in a safe manner... something that is 100% impossible for 90% of the world population.

the end result is cars that YOU CANNOT EVER STEER OR CONTROL YOURSELF! and that would be a wonderful thing.

until the collective IQ of the planet rises above 80.... we desperately need everything automated.

Re:Does EVERYTHING have to be automated?! (0)

Scott Baio (549373) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195311)

The IQ of the planet, if by "collective" you mean "median," "mean," or "mode," is 100. But automated cars may have only a limited arena of use, like on interstate highways, where your car and freight-hauling trucks might function more like a railway. Giving up control on city streets is not likely to happen anytime soon.

I remeber this one episode of "Charles in Charge" where Buddy and Charles were playing a video game called "Congo Kong," and every time Charles had to get up to go to the kitchen, he would pause the game. Buddy would sneak in a few digs against him while he was out. Charles got him back by sticking chewing gum on the fire button!

You can't automate good acting, and I'm available if you have any speaking parts to fill.

Re:Does EVERYTHING have to be automated?! (1)

Analog Penguin (550933) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195460)

"if we add AI to the mix we can remove the driving control from vehicles and keep the braindead morons that populate and clog and smear themselves all over the highways from trying to use the feeble mind of theirs to control that vehicle in a safe manner"

Except that this system is supposed to imitate the behavior of the people whose efforts it's supposed to take over. Meaning that we'd have even MORE crashes, because the computers would "learn" that crashes are the right way to drive and then auger into a cement wall on EVERY TRIP.

Of course, careful marketing would downplay this type of problem.

Re:Does EVERYTHING have to be automated?! YES! (2)

Havokmon (89874) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195238)

What is this world coming to if we have a COMPUTER to play our COMPUTER GAMES. I thought these things were for fun, and that people enjoyed playing games THEMSELVES! What was I thinking?

Ever play UO? It's THRILLING to sit for hours and practice magic, or hiding.

I had a little metal ball that sat on my Macro Key - so I didn't have to sit for hours before I could go out in the woods and be PK'd.

what for? (1)

archeopterix (594938) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195084)

AI taking over my game? I prefer a pause command (in desktop games) or 'logout' command (in multiplayer games).

Isn't this already being done? (1)

Gudlyf (544445) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195085)

I've heard/seen of macroing in MMORPG's for years now. People macroed when MUD's were the "first" MMORPG's, then in Ultima Online, and then EQ, etc.

Did the macros write themselves? (2)

yerricde (125198) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195278)

I've heard/seen of macroing in MMORPG's for years now.

In this system, the AI learns your playing style and writes the macros itself.

Oh no... (3, Insightful)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195086)

Imagine all the lonely AI cyber-sex sessions that will happen in this world...

Seriously, though, there has to be a line drawn here. Sure, it'll be good for parents to get the kids off the machine for dinner, but won't it eventually lead to being an all-AI game? Isn't the point of big games, like MMORPGs to be that the people with no life and play 800 hours a week to have better characters than the casual gamer? With this system, you teach the AI to practice blacksmithing, let it run day and night for a few days, and come back with a master blacksmith. Just seems like you are taking out the challenge of the game...

For the record, I don't play MMORPGs.

Re:Oh no... (0)

rczyzewski (585306) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195117)

And what will happen when the kids go eat dinner and come back to find out the AI didn't do so well and died or make a bad decision? Now the kids not only cry because they don't have the latest and greatest games, but that they don't have the latest and greatest AI. And I think we should make the kids smarter, not the technology.

Re:Oh no... (1)

Amit J. Patel (14049) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195243)

Maybe it will motivate them to become AI researchers.

- Amit

Re:Oh no... (3, Insightful)

Bingo Foo (179380) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195152)

but won't it eventually lead to being an all-AI game? Isn't the point of big games, like MMORPGs to be that the people with no life and play 800 hours a week to have better characters than the casual gamer? With this system, you teach the AI to practice blacksmithing, let it run day and night for a few days, and come back with a master blacksmith. Just seems like you are taking out the challenge of the game...

And Bully for them, I say. The more potentially dehumanizing technology there is around, the more we are forced to consider what is quintessentially human. AI that plays your game for you might be a liberating experience, in that it puts you face to face with the conclusion that having no life and playing 800 hours a week is not worth anything after all.

Re:Oh no... (1)

NDPTAL85 (260093) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195523)

So what exactly is worth doing for 800 hours a week if not playing video games?

Re:Oh no... (2)

gorilla (36491) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195526)

Playing 800 hours a week would be worth something. At the very minimum you could sell the time machine.

Re:Oh no... (2, Funny)

DonkeyJimmy (599788) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195154)

After watching someone I know practice fishing for 8 hrs a day, every day, for over 2 months on ultima online, I welcome whatever allows people to seperate themselves from that portion of gaming monotomy. Players will still have to decide weather to fish, cook, blacksmith, or whatever with their characters spare time. At least this way they can go do something productive, like watch TV or do drugs.

Re:Oh no... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195263)

At least this way they can go do something productive, like watch TV or do drugs.

LMFAO! You broad-sided me with this one. Thanks for the laugh!

Re:Oh no... (0)

Opie812 (582663) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195532)

For the record, I don't play MMORPGs.

For the record, I don't know WTF MMORPGs stands for.

Re:Oh no... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195595)

Welcome to the new millenium!!

Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games (like Ultima Online and Everquest).

Will it cover for me.... (2, Funny)

Patik (584959) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195093)

...when I need to get off my lazy game-playing ass and hit the gym?

Dave, (4, Funny)

kvn299 (472563) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195095)

I don't think you want spend all that gold on that that Palladin shield. Maybe you should relax a bit and think it over.

Uh oh (1)

WetCat (558132) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195096)

Can this system develop programs for me? Or at least
assist me in small tasks?

Re:Uh oh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195178)

Maybe it could learn how to post stupid ass slashdot posts for you so you could spend more time looking at porn.

Its a nice idea but.... (3, Insightful)

Spit_Fire1 (247104) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195102)

The company has developed an artificial intelligence system that learns a gamer's style of play and can take over and play for them if they have to spend time away from the game.

So If i'm not very good at a game the ai wont be either? Even so this could be exploitable and used to be better at a game than a friend, we all remeber zbot from quake2.

He said many players of online games become frustrated because their lifestyle limited their interaction with a game world.

but in a stragagy game you can run when nature calls and be mostly ok

Typically they involve creating lots of slightly different solutions to a problem, testing to see which perform best and then taking and randomly mutating these to produce a new batch that are again tested, mutated and so on.

They should focus this advanced AI on the computer players of the game not into an autopilot mode.

What's the point? (3, Interesting)

Mr_Silver (213637) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195108)

The company has developed an artificial intelligence system that learns a gamer's style of play and can take over and play for them if they have to spend time away from the game.

Ok, I'm no hard-core gamer but personally, I can't think of anything worse than AI making guesses about what my strategy is and what I'm planning and thinking of doing.

So the question is, what's the point? If "real life" intruides on my gaming, I simply hit pause and come back to it later.

It just seems to me like one of those things that'll make people go "wow!" for the first couple of minutes and then never use again.

In other words, a bit pointless, especially if you could have been spending that development time doing something more worthwhile (like adding depth to a game, improving other AI, adding extra levels, better documentation etc. etc.)

Re:What's the point? (2)

delphi125 (544730) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195286)

If "real life" intruides on my gaming, I simply hit pause and come back to it later.

It is a multi-player game. In a turn based game (like the [card] games on yahoo), people going for pees, answering the phone, fetching a drink etc. can be a nuisance, but if they say brb, it at least gives the others a chance to pop away for a sec too. Of course, it could just be lag....

Now, if everyone is out for themselves in a last-man-standing battle, you need to leave, you accept the chance you might die/lose/whatever.

But lets imagine a real time strategy in which you are one of three allies (USA, Britain, Russia), fighting a 6 hour battle simulating WWII. Now lets imagine you are the US, and I am Winston Churchill. I've been managing my armies for the last three hours when my partner tells me dinner is ready.

Am I supposed to:

  1. Tell her to fuck off?
  2. Use my keyboard as a plate?
  3. 'Press pause' and tell the 5 (or 50) other players to wait for me to come back?
  4. Let the computer do what its good at?
I'm not a hardcore player either; my mouse clogs up etc, and I hate micromanagement. This kind of stuff would work just fine - perhaps 24 hours a day (with me checking in daily for an hour to set budgets, initiate or even approve attack plans, etc.

That's the point.

Re:What's the point? (2)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195551)

> But lets imagine a real time strategy in which you are one of three allies (USA, Britain, Russia), fighting a 6 hour battle simulating WWII. Now lets imagine you are the US, and I am Winston Churchill. I've been managing my armies for the last three hours when my partner tells me dinner is ready.
>
>Am I supposed to:
>1.Tell her to fuck off?
>2.Use my keyboard as a plate?
>3.'Press pause' and tell the 5 (or 50) other players to wait for me to come back?
> 4.Let the computer do what its good at?

1) Instead of "Fuck off", how about "Bring the food in here, serving-wench!"
2) If you're lucky, you'll get to use your keyboard as a plate. If you're unlucky, your lap will be the plate. And it'll be French Onion Soup.
3) You'll have to press pause anyway while you yank the keyboard out and run screaming around the room.
4) So yeah, you'll still need an AI.

> I'm not a hardcore player either; my mouse clogs up etc, and I hate micromanagement. This kind of stuff would work just fine - perhaps 24 hours a day (with me checking in daily for an hour to set budgets, initiate or even approve attack plans, etc.

Y'know, I'd like that in a slow-moving RTS like your imaginary WW2 sim. Imagine a [single-player] game that took over your PC and ran a world in the background, 24/7, for a period of weeks/months.

Churchill was a hero - but even he had to sleep.

Isn't this called an aimbot? (0, Troll)

teamhasnoi (554944) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195110)

Bastards using aimbots and bots should be beaten with their Packard Bell mouses, and strangled with the speaker cords of their AIWA Mega-Bass 3D LCD Super Casino Boombox/Stereos.

Re:Isn't this called an aimbot? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195131)

Ahh, the man that can't play a decent game, so blames his losses on cheaters. Maybe you should just give up gaming, cause it'll eventually drive you into an insane killing spree.

Re:Isn't this called an aimbot? (1)

teamhasnoi (554944) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195256)

it'll eventually drive you into an insane killing spree.

Won't that mean I'll be unstoppable? I'm going to rename myself Das JuggerNaut.
Naut.

Re:Isn't this called an aimbot? (2)

Maran (151221) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195261)

Nah, aimbots point you at the enemy. This copies your playing style.

So in my case, it'll consistently shoot about 5 pixels away from the enemy ^_^

Maran

hmm (2)

ShooterNeo (555040) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195111)

One big problem that is immediatly obvious. If the games fancy genetic algorithm is actually good, you could probably hack the game with a state file made by someone who was really GOOD at the game.

However, as anyone who's played this type of game before would attest : sometimes you just HAVE to go afk RIGHT NOW or you lose your connection to the server due to technical reasons.

It would be very nice if the game would take at least basic action to prevent death (such as casting teleportation spells, healing, running away...SOMETHING other than standing there) if you get attacked and you are afk or linkdead.

Re:hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195435)

If the games fancy genetic algorithm is actually good, you could probably hack the game with a state file made by someone who was really GOOD at the game.

Is it just me or do you seem like a total idiot trying to sound like someone who knows what he's talking about. For you I reccomend www.about.com.

Hmmm (2)

theRhinoceros (201323) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195114)

I wonder if you could get the computer to absolutely demolish your opponents with rushes if you simply have it watch you build a few buildings, set up a super-fast rush attack, repeat, and then just turned it on and watched it go. If you did it fast enough, and the AI's sample size of your behavior small enough, you in theory just watch it pump out Zergling-equivalents after just 3, 4 minutes of "teaching it." Let the AI 0wNz0r your opponent... unless he's doing the same thing. I can sort of see this becoming something of a fad, who can "train" their AI's to be more vicious/effective.

Re:Hmmm (1)

Wiwi Jumbo (105640) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195579)

If I remember correctly that's a mode that Sega put into Virtua Fighter 4 for the PS2... you could "train" an AI and then fight that AI against your friends AI....

I think it has possibilites...

Starcraft bsing would be hard to do... (4, Funny)

MongooseCN (139203) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195115)

My only question is if it could even learn to bs for me on those laggy starcraft 3v3 games.

I don't know about bsing but maybe if you hooked up a mechanical system to your serial port and ethernet cable, it would learn how to pull the cable out of the wall just before the end of your starcraft games.

First Post (moderators keep reading) (1)

GothChip (123005) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195121)

Maybe this can be applied to a plug-in for IE. Then it can constantly refresh the frontpage of /. and try and get first post whilst I'm off hunting down pictures of Natalie Portman.

Playing what? (0)

Hack Shoeboy (441994) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195122)

If I had a machine that would keep "playing" for me, I'd never leave m room!

What?!?! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195129)

Why can't it take out the damn garbage and let me play?

The Interesting Thing Is Though... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195130)

That they farm out the AI work to other machines playing the game, SETI style.

see here [gamesfirst.com]

Not sure how they are going to manage if nobody is online though!

Virtual Fighter 4 (2, Interesting)

robbway (200983) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195132)

Virtual Fighter 4 for Sony Playstation 2 (PS2) allows you to train fighters to fight in your style. It takes quite a bit of repetition to get it to learn, and then it can fight for you and like you do. It is very reminiscent of the portable Gigapets and their ilk.

Imagine, I can now eat hot buttered popcorn with both hands as the game plays for me! Is their no limit to my weight gain?

My only question is if it could even learn to bs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195133)

.. If it could BM for you you'd never have to take bathroom breaks.

Can't wait to teach it with a bot! (2)

dave-fu (86011) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195140)

Rather, there won't be much of a need to teach it to play FPSes while using aimbots or RTSes while using de-fog of war'rs; once these bots are released it'll only be a matter of time before the proxy bots themselves are hacked and that will present another, potentially impossible obstacle to overcome. If it can out-micromanage and out-aim a human and it can't be detected as it's sitting as an external process, but some may use it as its intended for (why? can you not turn the game off for 15 minutes?) then there's going to be a lot of hand-wringing and a lot of irate people on either side of the fence.

So here is the situation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195144)

User plays game and sucks at it.
So computer al sucks.
But when the computer al sucks the player is better.
But when the computer is better the player sucks.
So we have an infinite loop of sucks/better/sucks

It can learn to play badly? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195161)

I'm not very good at some games, can it emulate my poor judgement?

Can it reproduce my slow reflexes?

Wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195179)

Think of all the time I will save now, having my computer play games for me. Perhaps I can get it to play solitare, so I can get more work done.

Netstorm (3, Interesting)

Godeke (32895) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195181)

Actually, at one point there was a game based in part on the ability to be disconnected and return called NetStorm. I actually liked it quite a bit (was a beta tester and bought it when it came out) but it ended up selling a very small number of copies and all the players on the server were using hacked clients by day two of the actual release.

Anyway, the game would fight on while you were gone, which was possible because the pieces were stationary cannons and the like, so when you came back you probably were a bit behind, but not wiped out. I won a few times after a reconnect, so the idea worked.

MUDding (1)

riggwelter (84180) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195182)

Just about the only game I play is Asylum MUD [asylum-mud.org] . I wonder if this AI would be able to determine what quests I want to do, and remember to snaffle a potion at appropriate times.

If so, it's a better MUDder than I ;-)

To Game Developers (5, Insightful)

Speare (84249) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195187)

I agree the server should be watching the player. How better to take notes on how to improve the gaming experience? But don't use it to play the game FOR the player when the player's bored with the game. FIX THE GAME.

If you've designed your game with lots of boring repetitious stuff which is well-suited for a machine, then you've gone the wrong direction.

If your idea of making certain events rare is a spawn-rate measured in hours or days, then you've gone the wrong direction.

If you think of your paying customers as gerbils who will do anything, especially hitting the spacebar or attack key every ten seconds, for eight hours at a stretch, then you've gone the wrong direction.

Instead, if you want to keep your player's interests, offer more entertainment that works within their available time. Make the player's time in the game more valuable. Make it possible to play a little over lunch, a little on Thursday evening, and still feel accomplishment.

For starters, employ adaptive spawning instead of location-based spawning. If the server notices a party of adventurers who haven't fought anything in a while, decide approximately how tough an encounter should be, then let it descend upon them. Vary the toughness, vary the approaches, vary the circumstances which trigger a spawn. Don't count server time to the next spawn, count character time to their next adventure opportunity. If the game isn't focused on hunting and leveling to the exclusion of all else (hah, yeah, like THAT will ever happen in THIS industry), then watch the players' behavior to decide what kinds of quests the player likes. Ration those out at a rate that keeps them interested, in character-time, not server-time. If the player plays twice a week, give them the stuff they like each time they log in. If the player really does enjoy slashing for hours on end, then give them a little surprise every now and then.

Massive multiplayer games should take advantage of the massive multiplayer-ness. Like, duh. The statistical analysis which could be done on player behavior in MMORPGs is staggering. The fact that game designers just don't bother doing it or using it, is mind boggling beyond the extreme. The fact that today's MMORPGs are essentially single-player games with thousands of human-powered NPCs just makes me wonder whether anyone really gets it.

Re:To Game Developers (1)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195270)

If you've designed your game with lots of boring repetitious stuff which is well-suited for a machine, then you've gone the wrong direction.

I think it should be said that if your game CAN have macros to accomplish a lot, you've done something wrong.

Re:To Game Developers (3, Interesting)

beleg777 (551987) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195376)

If you've designed your game with lots of boring repetitious stuff which is well-suited for a machine, then you've gone the wrong direction.

Diablo II, check.

If your idea of making certain events rare is a spawn-rate measured in hours or days, then you've gone the wrong direction.

Diablo II, check.

If you think of your paying customers as gerbils who will do anything, especially hitting the spacebar or attack key every ten seconds, for eight hours at a stretch, then you've gone the wrong direction.

Diablo II, check.

Yup, I agree. I know you're talking about MMORPGs, but it applies here too. And I think the problem is the same as the ones we complain about in the business world as well. Making a quality product and making a successful product are often different. (see Blizzard vs Blizzard North)

Re:To Game Developers (1)

bashibazouk (582054) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195564)

Blizzard vs Blizzard North

But which is which? As I've always found resource gathering painfully BORING. As such I am not much of a fan of the warcraft/starcraft games. I do enjoy squad based RTS, myth the fallen lords and mech commanded for example. Diablo 2, though not perfect is a great game IMHO. I suppect I would reverse the "successful" and the "quality" to what you would chose.

Re:To Game Developers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195429)

The fact that today's MMORPGs are essentially single-player games with thousands of human-powered NPCs just makes me wonder whether anyone really gets it.

I'd actually argue that you've got it backward somewhat here. I actually think single player games are often better than MMORPGs because they actually develop a plot, and include events that seem unique. In MMORPGs, there's no attempt to tailor the environment for the individual.

In this sense, MMORPGs are just single-player games with thousands of single players playing at the same time. But in another sense, they're much worse, because they don't have the whole environment scripting around you, the single character.

Re:To Game Developers (2)

iabervon (1971) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195597)

Having certain events only happen once in a few days is probably good, actually; it's just that the player shouldn't be waiting for just this one thing. There are games where certain things turn up only once in years of play, and people get really excited when they turn up. The rest of the time, they look for other things.

For that matter, if you have a ~once/week occurrence where the player had better be paying attention and has to do something situation-appropriate that isn't the usual thing (like run away as fast as possible), you'll develop a nice paranoia in your players even though it doesn't happen that often. Plus you'll make people not leave the game on autopilot because they'll not want to be gone when something important happens.

An AI playing a MMORPG for you? (0)

Wandering Idiot (563842) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195203)

Amd you thought Progress Quest [progressquest.com] was just a *joke*...

Re:An AI playing a MMORPG for you? (1)

Amit J. Patel (14049) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195262)

I am totally addicted to Progress Quest. :-( I dream of fetching the royal anvil.

- Amit

...learn to bs for me on those laggy starcraft 3v3 (0)

Chexsum (583832) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195220)

Some people cant get DSL/Cable!!!

And now that I have it - I understand what you mean. :(

Already used (0)

ciupmean (572454) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195244)

Since GP1 ... Remember when playing with multiple players .. each one played only for a short while giving the turn to the next player .. while our car kept being controlled by the computer based on our previous driving ...

Btw .. does Alice bot posts on slashdot too?

greets

Is this really an AI? (1)

Winterblink (575267) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195249)

Now is this really an AI or simply just a kind of statistical probability and analysis "tool" (for lack of a better word)? Is all it doing just simply watching what you do, saying "oh when he comes across a zombie he's more likely to cast x spell" and storing that somewhere? Sounds more like a self-adjusting script to me, and if that's all AI is considered these days then oh well. :)

MMORPG + AI + Email = Management 101 (2, Funny)

Tewley (415350) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195274)

I'm waiting for the day I can deploy my MMORPG character using an AI, head off to work, and once and a while repond to his thoughtful emails when he encounters trouble in the game.

I'll send him back a response telling him what to do, and if he screws it up, and doesn't get iced by some goblins or whatever, you can be sure it will come up at his next performance review.

Reminds me of a Douglas Adams quote (5, Funny)

nick255 (139962) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195279)

"The Electric Monk was a labor-saving device, like a dishwasher or a video recorder. Dishwashers washed tedious dishes for you, thus saving you the bother of washing them yourself, video recorders watched tedious television for you, thus saving you the bother of looking at it yourself; Electric Monks believed things for you, thus saving you what was becoming an increasingly onerous task, that of believing all the things the world expected you to believe. "

An now we have AI's to play tedious computer games for us!

Play with yourself (1)

cryptor3 (572787) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195309)

It would be interesting to be able to take your AI snapshot from a month ago and play against it, and see if you've improved.

Re:Play with yourself (0)

ciupmean (572454) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195426)

You can do that without AI ... >;)

sorry couldn't resist

More Useful... (1)

LooneyScotsman (599742) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195321)

...would be an AI that could teach ME how to play, so i dont get humiliated every time i try an online game.

IF it played NETHACK (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195328)

seriously, then i'd be more happier, might ascend for the second time too..

oh wait..

it learns how i play.. so it'll usually die before medusa to trolls, or wizard will wipe it's silly ass.

Greetings Professor Falken... (2)

cant_get_a_good_nick (172131) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195330)

Strange game, the only way to win is not to play... how about a nice game of chess?

Lame I know, but with the WarDriving reference just 2 stories away on the main page I just had to.

non-essential? (1)

germinatoras (465782) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195377)

Taking out the trash is definitely a non-essential task. It's much easier to just pile it in up to the very brim of the garbage can, stomp on it a few times (remembering to carefully avoid the streams of grease and rotten tomato juice that jettison from the containers under your foot) and repeat the process. Since there is a very large amount of unused space between an atom's election and the nucleus, you can continue to fill and compress the same canister for some length of time. You will eventually end up with..you guessed it..Neutronium - a substance so dense that nothing can possibly compress it further. At that point, you simply sell the neutronium on e-Bay to various scientist hobbiests on the internet and start over.

AI for MMORPG's? (1)

joeldg (518249) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195397)

How odd, though I am reminded of people making bots for Ultima Online in order to have their characters make money.. Saying most of these games are simply character building anyway.. I played lineage (lineagethebloodpledge.com) for a while until I got bored with character building and wanted to explore, explore before character building and you get killed. fun.. I have set up a large scale ALICE bot that people can put on their webpages at qboard.org (not 'just' a bot, it functions as a news tool, etc..) and am testing that out.. It has had 15,000 conversations so far! So, Hemo's if you want a bot that chats for you too.. ? ;) check botspot ..

My dream AI always plays just outside my reach (3, Interesting)

dmorin (25609) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195403)

What I want is AI that will suck at the game when I suck, and get better as I get better. That way it's not always a case of either I win all the time or lose all the time. Throughout the years I've noticed that chess programs tend to have that problem -- you can beat it all the time at level 1, but almost never win at level 2.

I thought this would be a great way for children to practice the game. Seemed very "Diamond Agey" to me.

Re:My dream AI always plays just outside my reach (1)

germinatoras (465782) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195492)

That's a really good idea. I know what you mean, too - I got a copy of "Risk" from hasbro interactive. The AI was so hard on its "Easy" skill setting that I almost gave up on the game. But once I finally beat it a few times, I found that "Hard" wasn't much more difficult than "Easy". I really would have liked it if "Easy" would have made the computer a moron, and "Hard" make it into an experienced grand-master, with several different levels in between. Same thing goes for {war|star}craft - I can hardly ever beat the computer, and I really wish they had a configurable skill setting.

Re:My dream AI always plays just outside my reach (0)

DirkDaring (91233) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195572)

You cant beat Starcraft or Warcraft? You have to be kidding me? The computer is blasted EASY to cream every single game once you get his pattern down.

Re:My dream AI always plays just outside my reach (1)

Guitarzan (57028) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195653)

I agree. However, the computer is freakin' GOOD at Warcraft 3! It's a very worthy 1-on-1 opponent in that game.

Learn how I work wahoo (1)

hmmm (115599) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195410)

Wouldn't it be great if this could learn how I *work*, so leaving me free to concentrate on games ;)

Re:Learn how I work wahoo (1)

Da VinMan (7669) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195457)

Be careful what you wish for.

I don't play games (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4195445)

forget games, if the thing can learn to BS for me, it should write my email and answer my phone at work.

That's nothing... (5, Funny)

grytpype (53367) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195477)

I have developed an AI that will make your Slashdot posts for you. It just pastes big quotes from the article and throws in a few off-topic references to the DMCA.

And i nearly got banned (1)

Lispy (136512) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195483)

from darkages [darkages.com] for speedhacking and using my zippolighter to level skills...argh...

cu,
Lispy

if added to 3rd person shoot em ups.. (1)

sjwt (161428) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195531)

its all nice to copy your play
style.. but could they also get
it to mimick eleet smart ass coments?

FuuUUUuck YOOOOOOUUUUUU (2)

Elwood P Dowd (16933) | more than 12 years ago | (#4195658)

My only question is if it could even learn to bs for me on those laggy starcraft 3v3 games.

That's not funny at all... I always longed to meet one of those assholes in real life so I could slap them silly. Or at least scream at them for a little while. People like that are one of the many many reasons it takes twice as much time to find a decent starcraft game as it takes to play the damn game.
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