Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

New Linux Kernel Configuration System

CmdrTaco posted more than 11 years ago | from the step-in-the-right-direction dept.

Linux 370

An anonymous reader writes "When Eric S. Raymond tried to replace the Linux kernel's configuration system with "something better", he got booed off the stage. Now Roman Zippel is bravely having his own go at it. Here's an interview with Roman and a look at his new configuration system, aimed for inclusion into the 2.5 development kernel. Also, find some screenshots of his new graphical configuration frontend."

cancel ×

370 comments

Oi! (1)

Coke in a Can (577836) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215868)

No comments yet and it's already been /.ed? What is the world coming to?

Maybe it's not a ./ effect... (1)

moby (96858) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215957)

...but the site has already been hacked!

Linux (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4215870)

Linux

If it ain't broke... (0, Redundant)

kc0dby (522118) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215872)

Don't fix it, dangit!!!!

Re:If it ain't broke... (1)

hackstraw (262471) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215934)

I'll second this. I have no problem using 'make menuconfig', its intuitive, the help is ususally helpful, it works over a remote connection, etc. Now if we were still stuck with the 'make config' and saying Y/N over and over again, then realizing that you meant to say Y and not N three questions ago, hitting ^C, starting over, and repeating this process, then that would be an entirely different story.

Re:If it ain't broke... (4, Insightful)

gmack (197796) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215979)

It's also broken.. kernel developers are constantly trying to work around it's limitations. The fact that config menuconfig and xconfig all have diffrent bugs doesn't help either.

We need something unified (same parser doffrent interfaces) and we need something less limmited. We need someone more sane than ESR to do it.

Slashdot: Crashing servers since 1972! (0)

Error-404NotFound (598574) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215878)

Interesting story, but it's already been slashdotted... perhaps his new Linux Kernel couldn't handle the load of eager slashdotters? Anybody got a Google Cache?

slashdotted already (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4215880)

slashdotted already

no wonder (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4215885)

It's running on mysql. Get a real Dbase like Oracle or Sql 2000(if you can afford it)

Re:no wonder (1)

anarchima (585853) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215904)

Hrmph..Is this really a limitation of mySQL or the hardware?

Re:no wonder (1)

mariube (600067) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215958)

Hrmph..Is this really a limitation of mySQL or the hardware?
Although it would be slow, it would probably be reachable if one dropped the SQL interface to the file system in favour of pure filesystem access, yes. But the ease of development and reduction in maintenance is obviuosly more important than withstanding a /. now and then. I'd do the same.

Re:no wonder (1)

Dave2 Wickham (600202) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215980)

How ironic; There's this ad [slashdot.org] at the top of the page...
"Don't let Your Database Slow You Down"

Re:no wonder (1)

dmp123 (547038) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216012)

Erm......Slashdot doesn't get slashdotted..... and it runs MySQL... hmm... You don't think it might be the fact that they need to turn up the Maximum Concurrent Connections option? Maybe? David

Re:no wonder (1)

Lysol (11150) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216097)

Get a real Dbase like Oracle or Sql 2000(if you can afford it)

Wow, you must have a MCSE or somethin...

Ironic... (4, Funny)

cat5 (166434) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215886)

that the kerneltrap topic id is 404...

Re:Ironic... (0)

Error-404NotFound (598574) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215896)

where do you read the topic id? i haven't been slashdotting for all that long...

Re:Ironic... (1)

cat5 (166434) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215933)

It's in the URL.

http://kerneltrap.org/node.php?id=404

See, node.php?id=404.

Re:Ironic... (0)

Error-404NotFound (598574) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215954)

ah i see, overlooked that.

Re:Ironic... (5, Informative)

_ganja_ (179968) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216030)



How is that Ironic? I blame Alanis for this total misuse of the word... That's just a coincidence.

While I'm at it, will the people that insist on using the word "literally" to mean metaphorically give it a rest: "That was so funny I literally shit myself" or "That last tackle literally ripped his head off".

Re:Ironic... (1)

quinto2000 (211211) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216064)

Democracy = "rule by the mob"

Re:Ironic... (1)

cheese_wallet (88279) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216112)

so would it be ironic if the topic id was 404, and the page worked?

They also open their include files to the world (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216095)

Very bad.

http://kerneltrap.org/includes/database.mysql. inc

Re:Ironic... (2)

AntiNorm (155641) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216117)

that the kerneltrap topic id is 404...

The screenshot [resentment.org] itself is more ironic, I think..

Man... (-1, Offtopic)

kennedy (18142) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215889)

It's a sad day when /. is pimping trial visual studio.net dvds for microsoft.

Re:Man... (1)

testadicazzo (567430) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215981)

Way OT so I shouldn't be responding to this, but...

Ironic yes, but I think it's more funny than sad. I mean, there's more anti ms info here than pro... I don't think MS will win any developers away from Linux here, so I consider it a bad business move for MS, glad they can help support the site...

just my 5 rappen.

Re:Man... (-1)

TrollBurger (575126) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216054)

I don't think MS will win any developers away from Linux here

Except when they want to earn money.

Re:Man... (1)

cioxx (456323) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216011)

I said the exact same thing couple of days ago in another topic.

It's hillarious. I'm gonna have to go with a "smart choice" option on behalf of MS.

Think about it. They are giving away a FREE DVD. Lots of people probably grabbed it for shits and giggles. Out of those 3,000 people, if MS locks just 1%, then the mission is accomplished.

Boycott Slashdot. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216163)

Microsoft's advertisements on Slashdot is
a bit like spam.

Send out any 2 million advertisements, and
if 0.001% buy the message it's a "success"
and done again.

Boycott Slashdot.

poor guy (3, Insightful)

GoatPigSheep (525460) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215893)

When Eric S. Raymond tried to replace the Linux kernel's configuration system with "something better", he got booed off the stage.

Yet another thing to add to my list of "and people wounder why linux is not being readily accepted by everyone" items. I mean, come on, the guy just wanted to help make things better! Getting booed off the stage hurts!

Re:poor guy (0)

Error-404NotFound (598574) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215913)

They booed at Edison and the Wright Brothers too, people need to try to fully explore somebody's idea before they say "boo! change is bad! go home!"

Re:poor guy (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4215967)

Yeah, he did. But his "something better" wasn't. It was a masturbatory exercise in pushing a pet language that resulted in a confusing mess that was at least as bad as the current system.

They weren't without reason (5, Informative)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216006)

The kernel developers are a pretty open-minded bunch. Eric's design was cool, he explained it to me a few years back, and it has seen use in other projects than the kernel. But I could see that it would be difficult for the kernel developers to accept:

  • It required Python to build the kernel.
  • It was complicated. It included an entire theorem prover. This was sort of cool in that it would not allow you to generate a non-working configuration, but really more than was required for the job.
  • Its language was arcane. The main language idiom is the suppress-unless statement, which is sort of the logical negation of if-then statements.
  • And some folks questioned his motivation for getting this grandiose project into the kernel - was it just to help out, or was it primarily to establish additional hacker reputation for Eric? I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this - he did the work.
I think he had a chance of getting it in, but he would have had to refactor the entire thing, write it over in C, make the language cleaner, and I guess that didn't come about. But to his credit, he didn't just talk about it. He generated a working software product with functionality that did not previously exist in Open Source as far as I could tell. His project is worth studying, and I'd encourage works derived from his ideas. I'm sure there's a paper about it online.

Bruce

Re:They weren't without reason (3, Insightful)

great throwdini (118430) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216078)

[Eric's design] was complicated. It included an entire theorem prover. This was sort of cool in that it would not allow you to generate a non-working configuration, but really more than was required for the job.

I grasp the significance of the other three points of contention you mention, but the fourth (above) doesn't jump out and grab me as an issue in and of itself. On the one hand, it may be that the method was overly complex (evidenced in part by the Python requirement and an unfamiliar idiom). Disallowing an unworkable configuration doesn't seem unreasonable, though. Is there a down-side to building that safety into the configurator apart from any flaws [heightened complexity] in Eric's particular implementation?

Re:They weren't without reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216104)

The kernel developers are a pretty open-minded bunch

Yes. Like you. "The new BSD license is great. It allows the code to be protected by the GPL." Your mind is open, so long as it follows your adjenda eh Bruce?

The Developers Arent Always Right & Politics S (5, Insightful)

FreeUser (11483) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216019)

Yet another thing to add to my list of "and people wounder why linux is not being readily accepted by everyone" items. I mean, come on, the guy just wanted to help make things better! Getting booed off the stage hurts!

First, GNU/Linux will never be accepted "by everyone." Nor will FreeBSD, nor will BeOS, nor will Apple's OS X.

Nor will Microsoft Windows, unless Palladium and DRM is legislated into law by the likes of "Disney" Hollings, and even then Apple is likely to be kept around as a token "competitor," paying hefty patent fees to Microsoft for the privelege of being allowed to manufacture "legal" hardware in the US. Unless, of course, you get off your butt and do something [randomfoo.net] about it, but I digress.

The problem is a simple and obvious one, and the solution as elusive today as it was the first time humans came to live together (and likely predates our ability to speak): Politics is ugly and banal, and people are fallible. This includes the Linux kernel developers and Linus Torvalds himself.

Example: The ggi project wanted to provide a kernel abstraction layer for video hardware in the same manner such abstractions are presented for everything else, from your ethernet adapter to your system's RAM and hard drive. Linus thought the idea sucked, then ended up doing a "poor man's" version of frame buffer support instead. How much better things would have been if the original vision of the GGI folks had been realized and supported we'll never know.

Example: PCMCIA. It is still a mess. The more capable userspace version got sidelined in favor of a broken and less capable rewrite ... I can only ascribe that to politics and personal pull, which every group, no matter how altruistic and well meaning, falls prey to now and then.

There are other examples, and perhaps Eric S. Raymond's effort is one (though I hesitate to make that assumption), but the purpose of this post is not to catalogue the mistakes Linus and others have made, or to air my own disagreements with them (but what the hell: when will we get XFS into the main kernel tree damn it! :-)), but rather to point out their humanity and fallability, a trait they share with everyone reading this comment, the guy posting it, and probably with every sapient being, everywhere.

Mistakes happen, everywhere, by everyone. The measure of a group or project's success isn't their perfection (as is so often implied in political discussions), it is by how much their mistaken decisions are outweighed by their correct decisions.

And using that metric, the Kernel developers, including Linus Torvalds, have done very well indeed.

Re:The Developers Arent Always Right & Politic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216114)

>and hard drive. Linus thought the idea sucked, then ended up doing a
>"poor man's" version of frame buffer support instead. How much better
>things would have been if the original vision of the GGI folks had
>been realized and supported we'll never know.
>
Bullshit. The ggi project was a overly-complicated pile of crap that Linus was right in rejecting. Pretty much the same bunch of X-hating losers who back things like Berlin was pushing ggi. Why? I suspect they thought they could use ggi as a back door to getting Berlin and other Amiga/PC Gamerish things intergrated into the linux kernel where they didn't belong.

Re:The Developers Arent Always Right & Politic (2)

Psiren (6145) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216133)

This will happen more and more. I really do expect that at some point someone will just say fuck it and branch their own version of Linux. I see this as possibly a good thing. If this branched version gets all the cool patches that Linus and co are turning down, and they work, it may prove to be a catalyst for change. Either that or the branched version will become better than the original. It happened with XEmacs (which IMHO is much better than Emacs), I see no logical reason it couldn't happen here aswell.

Re:poor guy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216070)

well, there's a long history with the linux
crowd and Eric S. Raymond. I bet a lot of the
booing didn't have much to do with the code or
the idea as much as Eric having said it.

It's not like this was some unknown new guy
with a suggestion that was shouted down.

Re:poor guy (5, Informative)

ceswiedler (165311) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216146)

Just to add to Bruce's points above: from what I heard, the biggest problem wasn't technical, but rather ESR's refusal to negotiate. The userbase of the kernel config system is the kernel developers; they had several tried-and-true ways of configuring kernels. Many of them were in fact quite happy with the existing system, and didn't see a need to upgrade at all; there was a general consensus that there were some shortcomings in the existing system, but those were very specific.

ESR solved these problems very well with CML2. By he also added a dozen features and changed a hundred other minor things, simply because he felt it was better that way. ESR was solving problems which only he perceived. For example, he was very interested in making it easy for "Aunt Tillie" to configure a kernel. Unfortunately, Aunt Tillie doesn't have a say in whether something goes into the kernel. Linus was apparently OK with CML2, but most of the other kernel developers were very resistant. No one ever explicitly refused CML2, but it never went in either, and ESR eventually gave up.

The impression I got was that ESR should have minimized the changes to the UI in his first version. If he had built something exactly like the old config, but with a new language and backend, most of the objections would have gone away. He then could have submitted the other changes; they may or may not have been accepted, but at least the underlying system would have been improved.

Re:poor guy (-1, Troll)

t0ny (590331) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216175)

just another example of linux dogma, or the 'linux party line' as I like to call it.

The reason Linux is a non-comercial product is because it is being made by non-professionals. So just like everything made for 'the community', it ends up being self defeating, just like the community.

Now I have no problem with innovation, but there is definitely an undercurrent of people within the linux community (as evidenced by 75% of /. posts) that enjoy Linux just because its "alternative". If Linux every became a mainstream OS (unlikely at best, but for example) I bet most of these people would switch to some other "alternative" OS. If you cant be interesting, you can at least be different, right?

down (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4215895)

Warning: Too many connections in /prod/www/virtual/kerneltrap.com/www/htdocs/includ es/database.mysql.inc on line 7
Too many connections

We already know that this is a apache server with mysql, and the path do the server root. Now let's hope this server is not powered by linux 2.5".

does it pre-configure (5, Insightful)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215899)

Well the site is /.ed so what i want to know is.

Does it scan your hardware and create a default kernel configuration with all ther drivers for your hardware pre-selected.

It could even ask if you running a desktop or server machine and turn on/off low latency, pre-emtion and supermount for the desktop.

I usually have to enable evrything to get X piece of hardware working corrctly and then disable stuff to find out what the correct drivers/modules were.

Re:does it pre-configure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216027)

Well, it would be nice if there was something like autodetection, but to be honest I don't trust autodetection since Windows.

> I usually have to enable evrything to get X piece of hardware working corrctly and then disable stuff to find out what the correct drivers/modules were.

So why do you enable everything?
Don't you know what hardware you got in your computer?
If that's the case then you shouldn't be using Linux.

Don't you know what hardware you got in your compu (1)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216057)

Well I don't know all the chipsets i have and exactly what i need to get my IDE up, etc...
Do i want framebuffer? do i need it...
Oh and I forgot scsi-cdrom support for my CD-RW.

I do know more-or-less what hardware I have, hardware detection can be a lot better under Linux than windows, a lot of USB devices auto load the drivers based on vendor ID/product ID.

A lot of the Linux drivers are generic for XYZ chipset, under windows you need the exact driver. I should imagine that Linux also detects what hardware you have when binding devices.

I takes a short while to select all the default hardware for your system, and sometimes you might miss something. Why not automate this process.

Re:Don't you know what hardware you got in your co (5, Informative)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216144)

You want too see the beauty of Linux Auto detection possibilities boot into knoppix.
I booted of the CD, got fully configured X, working sound, Working Xawtv, Working network with DHCP enabled, and therefore working broadband, and a working CD burner. It took a whole of like one minute to boot and it was everything I neaded. I Actually use it instead of Debian now for my main distro, mounting my old hard drive as scrap space.

but.... (1)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216160)

Did it re-compile a nice tight quick Kernel to match you configuration?

I have working everything using a Mandrake distro, I had to take apart my Adsl modem and search for a driver for the chipset and get the latest version of the USB drivers to stop gphoto2 crashing.

Re:does it pre-configure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216106)

It is my opinion that control over which, what, and how hardware is configured is one of the primary reasons anybody would choose Linux over a proprietary operating system that chooses for you.

I do not want my floppy disk enabled. I do not want my Via KT333 chipset autodetected as an Intel 440BX. And even if I did, I would never trust somebody else's script to know what I wanted.

Of course, I suppose some people would probably like something like this for one reason or another. But why? It takes less than a minute to properly configure a kernel as it is with 'make menuconfig'.

Oh well. Still a nice project for this guy, I guess.

Re:does it pre-configure (3, Interesting)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216148)

Here's how it works.

1: Run the kernel configuration program.
2: Select detect my harware option.... It sets up a 'default' configuration for you.
3: You can then go through and select/de-select anything you want.

You don't have to run step 2 if you don't want to you still have the choice you had before.

Now on the auto detection thing, if the script is wrong you can correct it, report a bug or whatever, just like you can with kudzu or USB driver autoloading.

It could even notify you that you hardware isn't fully supported and look here for an updated driver.

Re:does it pre-configure (1)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216165)

Nobody wants to force you to use autodetect, they just want the option to do it.
It might take you less then a minute, but it takes me closer to 30. And I have had positive expierience with autodetection in Linux, so why force me to go through and configure everything on my own? I don't use Linux because I can configure the kernel, I use it inspight of the fact that I must do so.

The Linux problem in a nutshell. (3, Insightful)

NetRanger (5584) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215906)

There is too much resistence to change in the Linux community. The problem is a simple one: in the minds of Elitists, easier is not better, it's "lamer", "suckier", or "for wussies". Thus, when someone comes up with the brilliant idea that the average person should be able to actually use the system, they're booed off. Yet these boo-ers are the same people who bash the mass market for using Microsoft or Apple's OS X. OS X is astoundingly good... a simple, intuitive, appealing interface on top of loads of raw power. That's what Linux needs.

Right now, when you install pretty much anybody's distro, you start up with an interface that has tons and tons of menus, icons, widgets, and whatnot, already up and running. It's an overload, and instead of trying to learn it, newbies are balking at it.

So why not have an easy-to-use kernel configuration system? Why not have an independent object model, where any distribution or window manager can use each other's dialog pages?

The only answer we seem to get is: "because it's for wussies!"

Re:The Linux problem in a nutshell. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4215968)

The resistance to change is in all the wrong places. Kernel configuration really needs to be changed. Compare the effect of inserting an "autorun.inf" driver CD and "make xconfig" on a normal user. Yet Linux does change rapidly. The network system changes with every x in 2.x and drivers for 2.4.x don't work anymore in 2.4.x+y. Linux is hard to maintain as a single user machine if you expect all the bells and whistles of a modern system.

...and the Linux solution? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4215984)

Who cares? You can still make whatever you want, it's all open-source. Anyone could make an easy-to-use distribution -right now- if they wanted to, some companies are even doing it to a certain extent. I understand what you're saying, and it is a problem, but it's not one that isn't easily worked around.

Maybe other nuts ... (3, Informative)

A nonymous Coward (7548) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215985)

I believe ESR got booe doff for two reasons. One, the new config required Python. Two, he wanted to change everything at once in ne huge patch, rather than bits and pieces which are easier to understand, back out and correct, and so on.

Re:Maybe other nuts ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216098)

the whole "i've lowered myself to fix your problems out of the goodness of my heart, now bow down before me" attitude had something to do with it too.

Requiring Python as part of the kernel building toolchain did put people off, but it wasn't as much of an issue as some have made it out to be; consider what's already required.

Take a good look at CML2 before you are so sure. (5, Insightful)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216026)

You might change your mind if you examine the project in question. See this comment [slashdot.org] .

Bruce

Re:The Linux problem in a nutshell. (2)

lpontiac (173839) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216029)

Yet these boo-ers are the same people who bash the mass market for using Microsoft or Apple's OS X.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the boo-ers are different people, and there's the problem that Linux has - lots of different people trying to take it in different directions.

Right now, kernel hackers tend to care more about the techie market, and the server market is where the money is, so that's the direction that things are really moving in.

Re:The Linux problem in a nutshell. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216052)

>are the same people who bash the mass market for using Microsoft or
>Apple's OS X. OS X is astoundingly good... a simple, intuitive,
>appealing interface on top of loads of raw power. That's what Linux
>needs.
>
>
No we don't need it. We also don't need dipshits like you telling us what we need. If you don't like it then bugger off. We're pretty much not interested in becoming the next Amiga or BE despite the best efforts of GUI-obsessed losers like you. Go find other people to fight your stupid desktop war for you.

Apple? Kernel conf? (1)

Anonymous Bullard (62082) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216080)

There just might be a reason why Apple has it much easier in the "easy-to-use kernel configuration system" department...

All things considered, even the current Linux method works amazingly well. Not everything gets included in the official kernel releases, for various reasons, but users (incl. distro builders) are free (as in speech&beer) to add any features they feel will add value to their case.

Sometimes it's in the best long-term interests not include the first available stab at a new feature.

Personally, I have no reason not to trust Linus & Co's judgement in these matters.

Or was your rant targeted more at the object model and UI issues instead of the ability to configure kernels?

Re:The Linux problem in a nutshell. (2)

krogoth (134320) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216176)

No. I think everyone agrees that easier is better, but not everything is as easy as it wants to be. If a program can automatically configure a kernel for me that supports all the hardware and features I need, that's good, but I don't see much difference between a graphical menu and a text-based version of the same menu.

/.'d (1, Offtopic)

Suppafly (179830) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215912)

14 total comments on a sunday morning and the site with the pictures is /.'d already.. that can't be a good sign of things to come..

At least its a good endeavor.

Re:/.'d (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4215930)

Better be careful with /. links ... someone might think that too many hits to a website is "Domestic Terrorism"

Roman's system is realy great... (3, Interesting)

frankske (570605) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215919)

It's a shame that Linus doesn't want to change, becuase Roman's system is realy great: faster, easier, and at the moment it still leaves the old system as default...

Re:Roman's system is realy great... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216015)

Let's fork the kernel!

unix people and security (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4215931)

http://kerneltrap.org/includes/database.inc
http: //kerneltrap.org/includes/database.mysql.inc

There are probably more...

For gods sake put stuff like that outside the web root if you can't set apache up properly.

Eh? No security issue I can see. (2)

brunes69 (86786) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216018)

After looking at these two pages I see nothing that could be classified as a security compromise. No passwords, no ports, no UID's, nothing. They are just files with some functions in them. Sure it maybe neater if they had named them .php so visitors couldn't view them, but its not a security issue.

Re:unix people and security (2)

ceejayoz (567949) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216024)

Well, it doesn't have the password/usernames in there, so it's not as bad as it seems... but you're right, it's a bad idea to leave it out in the open.

Damn slashdotters! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4215943)

Warning: Too many connections in /prod/www/virtual/kerneltrap.com/www/htdocs/includ es/database.mysql.inc on line 7
Too many connections

They need a new security person or php developer (0, Offtopic)

cyberlotnet (182742) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215947)

http://kerneltrap.org/includes/database.mysql.inc

Lovely php code... Anyone care to look for possible flaws so someone can hack there server..

If your going to use includes in such a format, AT LEAST setup a .htaccess file so .inc files can not be viewed online..

I mean come on...

1. Scan include directory for other .inc files
2. View them and look for some coding mistake
3. Root Server

Re:They need a new security person or php develope (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4215982)

Torch the site via a POST to the variable $query using a delete.

Re:They need a new security person or php develope (1)

faeryman (191366) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216075)

this is probally a stupid question, but how would a programmer protect against someone doing that?

Re:They need a new security person or php develope (2)

ealar dlanvuli (523604) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216145)

sanity checking in your input values

basic rule of thumb, don't let people past your nic see anything but html; don't accept anything but stuff that you can *prove* is safe.

WARNING (-1)

TrollBurger (575126) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216072)

If ANYONE posts a '4.???, 5. Profit!' response to the parent post, I will come to your house, and punch you in the teeth.

Re:WARNING (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216132)

1. Scan include directory for other .inc files
2. View them and look for some coding mistake
3. Root Server
4. ?????
5. PROFIT!!!

TROLLBURGER IF I EVER MEET YOU I WILL KICK YOUR ASS

416 Slashdotted (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4215953)


Slashdotted
The requested URL could not be accessed by any more hot grits.

Additionally, a 416 Slashdotted error was encountered while trying to use a Beowulf cluster to cache the request.

Apache/1.3.26 Server at www.cowboyneal.net Port 80

Why Change? (4, Insightful)

PoiBoy (525770) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215959)

Seriously, what's wrong with typing "make menuconfig" now? To me at least, an ncurses-based menu system is just as easy to use as a GUI (yuk).

Moreover, it's not like complete newbies are going to be doing kernel compiles. For anyone with enough experience to recompile the kernel, an ncurses-based system is adequate IMHO.

Re:Why Change? (1)

PigleT (28894) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215983)

I think it might be more a case of dependencies - "if you're going to have ACPI, you need..." and so on. This was something Eric's system sort of touched on, mostly - regrouping things in a slightly more sensible way is fine by me.

Why not? (3, Insightful)

brunes69 (86786) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215989)

Its not like they are saying "Lets ditch menuconfig and replace it with this!". For you and whoever else there is still make menuconfig. But I for one would welcome a better GUI than make xconfig, which I find pretty honkey. Since when are more options bad? It's not like they are forcing you into switching.

Re:Why Change? (1, Redundant)

Psiren (6145) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216002)

Seriously, what's wrong with typing "make menuconfig" now? To me at least, an ncurses-based menu system is just as easy to use as a GUI (yuk).

Seriously, what's wrong with typing "make xconfig" now? To me at least, a GUI menu system is just as easy to use as an ncurses-based one (yuk).

Some people prefer a GUI. Live with it.

Re:Why Change? (1, Redundant)

garcia (6573) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216031)

how is this method going to stop you from typing make menuconfig?

Prior to the ncurses method there was make config, I am sure that no one particularly cared for make menuconfig (I use it but I hate it). If the newbie wants to use a GUI based configuration for kernel compiles that is NOT going to disable menuconfig.

Get real.

Re:Why Change? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216109)

Well having to spend an hour turning off or on every damn thing you want in a kernel config with over 1000 options when a tool will auto-configure 99% is one reason why I think menuconfig sucks when compared to it. I would not care if this was simply a text tool if it would simply eliminate that issue alone. Have you ever missed somthing in a complex kernel config and had to redo compile the sucker. I hate that. I also like GUIs because they allow you to multi task while most text menu and a command lines do not. They also allow you to see and organize information more clearly. I get sick of the people who say if you use a GUI your a wuss. In my opinion, if all you want is text menus and command lines, you have no life. The true mark of an expert is knowing how to do something at the command line level when they need to but having enough common sense to want and to use good tools to make such efforts rare and thus thier work quicker and easier.

tip for web sites that get linked off slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4215963)

dont serve up your web pages from a database.

Re:tip for web sites that get linked off slashdot (1)

anarchima (585853) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215976)

So then anyone who could potentially be linked from slashdot should just change the entire technology supporting their site? Hehe, don't think so!

Re:tip for web sites that get linked off slashdot (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216028)

This would have never happened if he was running MSSQL 2000.

Microsoft - Where Do You Want To Go Today?

Re:tip for web sites that get linked off slashdot (1)

Fragmented_Datagram (233743) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216166)

The default is to allow a maximum number of 100 connections. You can set it higher if needed:

http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/Too_many_connections .h tml

Compiling kernels? (1)

koali (175176) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215965)

Hey, anyway, compiling kernels is rarely needed. Your distro's kernel should come with *everything* that can be compiled as a module, and sane defaults for everything else.

I don't really recall that many things that require a kernel compile (although I do compile my own, of course :).

14 comments and.... (0, Redundant)

idontneedanickname (570477) | more than 11 years ago | (#4215975)

...this:

Warning: Too many connections in /prod/www/virtual/kerneltrap.com/www/htdocs/includ es/database.mysql.inc on line 7 Too many connections

Question (perhaps OT) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4215994)

Why do we never see vampires sucking blood out of menstruating women? Does it kill them?

Re:Question (perhaps OT) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216151)

youve obviously never tasted it.

Deja's log. (1)

Buck2 (50253) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216003)

Roman's announcement to kernel list of the tool's availability is here [google.com] .

The beginning of discussion WRT his tool is here [google.com] .

Roman's suggestion is a bit more stripped down than Eric's. Eric has written an entire "configuration language" that is a tad unfinished ATM and wants to use it as a new version of the kernel configurator. Due to the fact that "make menuconfig" and "make xconfig" work pretty damn well and other problems like "What will the defaults be for each architecture?" Eric's language cml2 met some stiff resistance.

Roman is going for a more moderate change.

Linux Kernel developers are schoolyard bullies (3, Interesting)

Kiwi (5214) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216017)

Linux kernel developers often times act like schoolyard bullies.

This is a pretty strong statement, and needs to be qualified. The Linux kernel developers are a very talented group of programmers that have written some impressive code which is helping stop the Microsoft machine control all of computing.

These programmers are doing professional-quality work, oftentimes on a completely volunteer basis.

We have lost a lot of good code which the kernel could have used because of some of the bullying that the kernel developers have engaged in. The lost of Eric's excellent CML2 is the most highlighted case, but we also lost a lot of improvments to the ugly IDE subsystem [lwn.net] . The IDE developer finally had enough [alaska.edu] of the schoolyard bullying games; and so Linux lost another developer.

I wonder how long Linus Torvalds will allow his "inside circle" to continue to mock and belittle attempts to improve the kernel code. If these actions continue, the kernel code will languish and become more unstable. Is Linus even considering adding next generation pthreads [ibm.com] to the kernel? I really want to see the Linux kernel become a real competitor to Solaris and AIX in the enterprise, so I hope that Linus fires some of the more nasty bullies from kernel development (I don't care how good Viro's code is; he comes off as being one of the bigger flamers) so that new ideas are truly welcome in to the kernel again.

- Sam

Fork if you don't like it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216025)

see subject

http://www.xs4all.nl/~zippel/lc/ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216023)

The current release (0.4) is available from
http://www.xs4all.nl/~zippel/lc/

MIRROR (1)

majestynine (605494) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216038)

A mirror in case of slashdotting:

We are currently experiencing technical difficulties. Sorry for the inconvencience.

Flexible enough for more than linux kernel? (3, Insightful)

wfmcwalter (124904) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216044)

(well, the site is still /.ed, so I'm winging it here...)

Hopefully the tool(s) in question are flexible enough that they can be adapted/generalised for other systems (i.e. other than the linux kernel).

Configuring complex systems (openoffice, mozilla, KDE, Gnome, etc.) that have to run on numerous platforms and can contain optional elements that can depend on other optional elements (or be mutually exclusive with them) is always a challenge. It would be a big saving if one tool(set) could be applied to lots of these large projects. This is a lot like autoconf replacing weird project-specific configurators.

Equally (and perhaps complicating the above goal) the tool in question really needs to be powererful enough in a particular instanciation that it's "complete" - i.e that one doesn't need to manually fix stuff up (in the config output file) to get some of the more advanced options. Windriver's VxWorks, for example, has a cool little kernel-image configuration program - but this always seems to lack GUI access to the one component I need - so one gets used to the raw config file, and the power of the GUI tool is lost.

wrong! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216105)

No.

We don't need yet another uber-solution for all the world's problems - an uber solution that's never finished, and that does a bad job for all cases. Let's write a tool to solve the one problem we actually have, and do it well.

kerneltrap.org (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216048)

watch the main page evolving.. (kerneltrap.org [slashdot.org] )
it's changed every time I reload it :)

Priceless (1)

cioxx (456323) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216056)

Linux Kernet Configuration Website - $20/mo
PHP Nuke w/MySQL - Free
Getting Slashdotted for greater good - Free

Putting up a temporary page full of simple errors in front of millions of nerds
<img src="/themes/kerneltrap/images/logo.jpg>
We are currently experiencing technical difficulties. Sorry for the inconvencience.[sic]
PRICELESS

slashdotted... (2)

Xpilot (117961) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216060)

If you go to the main site, it just says it's "experiencing technical difficulties". The webmaster says that he picked "a wrong day to experiment". Wonder if it's because he's updating his web page or because of the server overload.

Already Slashdotted... (2)

ONU CS Geek (323473) | more than 11 years ago | (#4216123)

Go to the site, and ya get:

Warning: Too many connections in /prod/www/virtual/kerneltrap.com/www/htdocs/includ es/database.mysql.inc on line 7
Too many connections

Since it's a Stallmate and a Waiting game... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4216125)

I'm in a mood for reading those "BSD is Dying" trolls.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...