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538 comments

frist ps0t (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282060)

he's right, star wars sucks.

stop sucking off george lucas.

ATTENTION PRANKSTERS (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282074)

Hey, all you master pranksters, wannabe pranksters, and people who just wanna have fun. I am calling all of you together to achieve a common goal. I have a mission. There's this @sshole out there, claiming to be a millionare with lots of cars. He lives in Litchfield, CT. His name is Dave Berlin. His email is pimping6@hotmail.com . Lets get him. I'll be sure to get his address and phone number later. Have fun.

@sshole? Christ..say FUCK, MOTHERFUCK, CUNT, etc. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282149)

HOW ARE YOU GENTLEMEN !!

BAD SANTA
Looks like Santa should've thrown those kids some HOT GRITS

I rox0r (-1)

warez_d00d (122900) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282077)

you suX0r!
read the story first? ME? nah!

And I just finished reading Sundiver (1)

tweek (18111) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282078)

I like this guy's work. I only heard about him because he spoke at the Libertarian National Convention this year.

Anyone have any suggestions for the next book to pick up of his?

Re:And I just finished reading Sundiver (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282150)

I like him, too, but some of his criticisms of other movies tossed out in the first article made me question if he saw the film in question. For example, in Logan's Run, the city collapsed because Logan gave the master computer (which controlled the whole city) an emotional breakdown, not from shooting a console.

Re:And I just finished reading Sundiver (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282281)

Go right into Startide Rising. Its the next book sequentially in his Uplift saga and arguably his best novel.

Re:And I just finished reading Sundiver (1)

katre (44238) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282287)

If you've read Sundiver, go ahead and read the next 5 Uplift novels. Yes, they're worth reading.

Once you finish them, you can start on his other stuff, such as Earth, but it'll take you a while. :-)

Re:And I just finished reading Sundiver (1)

tweek (18111) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282396)

I wasn't able to determine this in the book store and the books aren't labeled but Sundiver IS the first in the uplift series, correct?

Mind posting the order for me? I could go through and check pub dates but since you sound like a fan, I'm sure you'll know. heh.

"Caused Quite a Stir?" (-1)

TRoLLaXoR (181585) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282079)

Please, get lives, people.

Look who's back! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282116)

Where have you been then, sonny?

Re:Look who's back! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282134)

trollaxor! what's poppin.


Slashdot: Come for the trolls, stay for the goatse [goatse.cx] .

MOTHER OF GOD! IT'S TROLLAXOR! (-1)

govtcheez (524087) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282151)

Your return has convinced me to return to my strict Mennonite upbringing, as I now know there really is a God!

Re:"Caused Quite a Stir?" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282370)

So are you back?where the fuck is your site?

first post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282080)

Hurray first post? I think.

Article slashdotted (page 1) (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282091)

(Posted AC to avoid k-whore)
What's wrong (and right)
with "The Phantom Menace"
A science-fiction author scours the new "Star Wars"
film for signs of intelligent life.

Editor's Note:Be warned that the following article contains
"spoilers" -- plot points and other details about "The Phantom Menace" that you may wish to avoid if you haven't seen the movie yet and plan to do so.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By David Brin

June 15, 1999 | First off, let me say that I think the film looks gorgeous. George Lucas was able to hire the best. He took advantage of advances in computer graphics to portray many old sci-fi favorites in vivid ways. The costumes are just spiffy, the sword fight scenes zesty. Great aliens, too (except for Yoda, who's still a rubber oven mitt with two facial expressions: patronizing and condescending).

The part that I found the most interesting was when the princess gave the young darth vader the ass.
On the first date, even. She didn't even smoke weed or anything to endure the pain, she just took that
huge vader cock like it was make of solid crack cocaine, to quote Too Short.

I actually quite enjoyed the first part of the film -- Jedis running around on the Trade Federation mother ship, jumping and slashing, leaping and blasting. My hopes started to rise. But then -- well, let me list just a few items:

Clichés

Also Today

"Star Wars" despots vs. "Star Trek" populists
Why is George Lucas peddling an elitist, anti- democratic agenda under the guise of escapist fun?

Underwater cities? A city that covers a
whole planet? Where've we seen those before? Well, they may be clichés, but Lucas stole them fair and square, and served them back with loads of panache, so he's forgiven. On the other hand, there are other clichés that make you moan aloud. For example:

"Hey, you guys, don't you mess with me because my mom is the Virgin Mary! (At least that's what she told her folks when she came home pregnant one day.) I guess you know what that makes ME, so everybody drop down and give me 20!"
"I think maybe he is the CHOSEN ONE ..." Oh, really? As in "Dune"? Or in "The Matrix"? Or in "Lord of the Rings"? Or "A New Hope" (the original 1977 "Star Wars" movie)? Or ... make your own list. It will stretch for light years.
"He is too old to train to be a Jedi." -- Uh, Yoda? You say 6 is too old, but Luke Skywalker will be a doable fixer-upper at 20? When do you recruit novices -- ripping them from the breast, like the Psi Corps in "Babylon 5"? Does the Jedi Way require complete denial of normal childhood? An odd message for a kid flick!
"Oh no! There's an unstoppable robot army! Of course all we have to do is pull a master switch and they'll all shut off!"

This recalls blowing up the shield projector in "Return of the Jedi" (which is achieved entirely thanks to the wookie -- neither Luke nor Leia makes any real difference in achieving the Rebel victory. Think about it!). Or a computer virus shutting down all alien shields in "Independence Day." Or Obi-Wan dialing down the tractor beam. Or the hero in "Logan's Run" shooting one computer console and blowing up a city. And so on. Yeesh! Are villain equipment- designers really that bad in every off-Earth empire? In fairness, this cliché is endemic. Ever notice how, in "Star Trek," Kirk talked five different super-computers into self-destructing? If the universe really is like this, we Earthlings are gonna kick butt when we get out there!

A good machine is one that has to be hammered into turning on for you (e.g. Anakin's speed-pod, his space fighter, the Millennium Falcon, C-3PO and so on). If it starts right up, it must be evil.
Some might view the pod race as a rip-off copy of the speeder bike scene in "Return of the Jedi." Actually, I found the charioteer imagery charming. Hey, a swooping chase scene past scary obstacles is always a good thing to throw into a whiz-bang sci-fi flick! Nevertheless, having a 6-year-old slave toss together a better pod than all the galaxy's technicians can create? (Those Tatooine slave schools must have a great curriculum!) Couldn't he have had help from an old but great engineer who retired to Tatooine for his health? That cliché would have lent plausibility.
Big animals try to eat whole spaceships, yum. Where've we seen that before?
An apprentice Jedi -- watching helplessly as his beloved master is slain in a sword fight by a Sith Lord -- screams, "No!" Where've we seen that before? (Incidentally, the angry apprentice succeeds where his calm master failed -- just as Luke Skywalker does better angry than when he was composed, in "Return of the Jedi." So much for Yoda's sage advice!)

Re:Article slashdotted (page 2) (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282122)

But enough wallowing in small stuff. Let's get down to the Grand Champion cliché of all:

"Gee whillikers, R2, the folks out there sure are in a pickle. What's that, girl? Solve the whole plot by diving my tiny ship into the center of a big bad-ass one, and set off a chain reaction to blow it up from the inside while we run away real fast? What an idea! Gee, I'll bet THAT'S never been done before!"

Note that the only "Star Wars" movie without this dreadfully clichéd trick is "The Empire Strikes Back," again showing how that movie towers over the others. Actually, I guess "Phantom Menace" is logically the first time the stunt gets used, since it's the "earliest" of the movies, so let's be forgiving. But then, if Anakin did this as a boy, don't you figure he'd remember the nasty little design flaw, 40 years later, when he helps Tarkin and the Emperor build the Death Star? (This may be Clue No. 1 to a great underlying plot secret, one potentially capable of transforming the whole series! A fantastic surprise that'd actually make sense of the whole saga! Care to guess?)

Originalities

I confess there was one really original thing in "The Phantom Menace," something I have truly never seen before. I could not believe my eyes when I read the yellow prologue letters flowing across the screen at the very beginning of the film: A sci-fi action movie whose premise is based on taxation of trade routes and negotiations over tariff treaties? Now that ... (yawn) ... is something ... I've ... never ... (snore) ...

Self-indulgences

It happens time and again. You create a beloved universe -- then spend most of the sequels wallowing in emotional reunions, or worse, spend most of the prequel introducing characters to each other, dwelling on each moment for long stretches laden with emotional music. R2, meet Threepio! (For the very first time!) Obi-Wan, meet Anakin! Anakin grew up with Greedo! Naturally, there are cameos by Tuskan Raiders and Jabba the Hut and every other old friend, for nostalgia's sake. Anyone notice the delegation of Spielberg's "ET" aliens in the Senate chamber, uncharacteristically willing to associate with humans for a change?

And there's more! Anyone notice the names of the other candidates for Chancellor? Minister Antilles of Alderan? Maybe the dad of Captain Antilles, the first dude Vader crushes to death in the first movie? Cousin of Luke's wingman, Wedge Antilles? Could it be a coincidence? Destiny? (Or maybe Clue No. 2?)

Again, to be fair, the nostalgia thing has been done even worse by others. Remember "Star Trek, The Motion Picture"? Wasted half an hour worshipping the Enterprise from the outside before we even got aboard. Get on with it!

Illogicalities

"We won't train young Skywalker 'cause he might turn dangerous." So instead of assigning the most experienced teachers to keep an eye on him, and train him to be a good guy, you'd just toss him and his mega-force talent out on the street? Or else, under duress, you'll finally agree to let a recent novice (Obi-Wan) deal naively with the menace on his own? Great idea! Of course this terrible decision leads to catastrophe, so it's all Yoda's fault from the very beginning. (Or is it another clue?)

According to Stefan Jones, "In the first film, the Force was a kind of martial art/Zen archery kind of thing. Rather egalitarian: Obi-Wan even offers to teach scoffer Han Solo the ropes. Goofy comic-book mysticism, but kind of charming and innocent in a Hong Kong kung-fu movie sort of way."

But as the Übermensch effect took over, the Force grew elitist. You had to be born with it! In a progressive universe, Yoda & Co. would set up Jedi-arts studios in every mini-mall on Coruscant -- the way karate has saturated suburban America -- giving millions of kids exposure to a little discipline and fun, plus a chance to better themselves through hard work, and maybe outperform what cynical grownups expected of them. But Yoda thinks he can diagnose at age 6 who's got it, who hasn't, and who is pre-destined to fail before they try. Only demigods need apply ... and only those demigods Yoda likes. (Maybe this really is Clue No. 3?)

Too bad we had to leave the Virgin Mary -- I mean Mom -- on Tatooine (presumably to give birth to Uncle Owen). But once the queen and Obi-Wan get away to Coruscant, can't they access their Galactic Express accounts and buy mom's freedom out of petty cash? I guess they forgot. Some heroes.
We Jedi protect the innocent! So let's take a 6- year-old along on a raid into the enemy's heavily defended HQ! (Then tell him to hide in a fighter cockpit "for safety.")
Vader grew up on Tatooine, yet he finds the place unremarkable 40 years later in "A New Hope." In the same film he senses nothing unusual about C-3PO, his beloved first-born droid. (Or his own daughter, for that matter!) In any event, this coincidence makes Tatooine the last place anyone would hide Vader's newborn son -- Luke -- 20 years hence!

Naturally, this hustling of babies will wind up being the major subplot of Episode III -- which ought to be a real bummer of a movie: Coruscant and a zillion other planets are gonna have to fry as the emperor takes over, since that would only happen over the dead bodies of every decent citizen with any spirit. What a lovely way to finish the saga! But we'll still cheer as Obi-Wan manages to grab the twins, Luke and Leia, saving them from Dad's evil clutches as billions perish behind them. Hurrah!

Re:Article slashdotted (page 3) (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282139)

Cheats and unexplained plot drivers

Hey, I put up with all those underwater fishes chasing a blaster-equipped ship because I thought we were gonna get a trip "through the planet's core!" Why mention it, if you're not gonna show it?
Uh ... will anyone please explain why the Sith Lord and Trade Federation risk everything to capture a teeny periphery planet? Can we have a clue why Naboo was important -- any hint at all? Hello?
If the queen can drum up so much Senate support that she's able to fire the good chancellor, wouldn't someone lend her a few fast ships with cameras, to broadcast atrocities going on back on Naboo?

Also Today

"Star Wars" despots vs. "Star Trek" populists
Why is George Lucas peddling an elitist, anti- democratic agenda under the guise of escapist fun?

The Republic has no police
force? No news media to verify the queen's story? No big planets who are sick of the Trade Federation and hankering to pounce on the federation's big mistake? No commercial competitors of the Trade Federation, eager to do likewise in hopes of getting the franchise? No past victims of the Federation Robot-Army, eager for revenge? Everybody's a wimp except for two Jedis and some funky amphibian rastafarians?
Democratic institutions are always foolish or useless in "Star Wars." Even the Jedi High Council is blamed by Yoda for voting to allow Anakin to be admitted for training, over Yoda's "wise" objections. Only impulsive commands by anointed leaders have any validity in the Lucasian Universe.
Worst of all, Lucas forgets one of the chief lessons of filmmaking -- give your villains great lines! Remember "Die Hard"? "Blade Runner"? "The Empire Strikes Back"? Hell, even the lamentable "Return of the Jedi" featured a marvelously awful emperor sneering at the hero seductively (if illogically).

So what do we see in this movie? Liam Neeson (Qui-Gon Jinn) gets separated from his nemesis, Darth Maul, by a force field. The adversaries pause and glare at each other before resuming the fight. What a great time for Maul to give his side of the story -- his seething need for revenge against the Jedi! Maybe some riveting mumbledy-jumble about the Jedi having crushed and suppressed one whole side of the Force for a thousand years, thus creating awful imbalance in the universe! (Maybe Neeson even half agrees! After all, he's the one wanting to restore "balance," which presumably means bringing back enough of the Dark Side to make sort of a Zen-twilight gray ... or maybe a dramatic layered, two-tone effect. Anyway, a hint about Liam's temptation could explain a lot.)

Hey, Maul's harangue wouldn't even have to make sense, so long as it told us something about the cause that little Anakin will later adopt as his own. Less than a minute of villainous rant could have packed a lot of juice into their vendetta. But no.

Pseudoscience gimmicks

Here's an idea. Let's take the energy symbiote mitochondria inside our cells and mystify them into "midichlorians" (apparently swarms of some sort of symbiotic magical fairies inside of each of us) to give a pseudo-techno gloss to Lucas' new religion. To be fair, "Star Trek" does the same damn thing all the time.

Nevertheless it brings us back to the different ways the two traditions -- "sci-fi" and science fiction -- would treat Superman. If these symbionts empart great powers to people, can't we find a way to give common folk more of them? A blithe contentment with genetic determinism is one thread this "Star Wars" universe shares with most ancient tales -- and with the Nazis.

Still, even from this Campbellian Übermensch-hero premise -- that only a genetic elite get to share in the Force -- there is a big logical problem in "The Phantom Menace." Consider: Young Anakin acts with godlike poise and heroism at every turn, yet Yoda accuses this brave kid (packed fulla midichlorians) of being too afraid to be a Jedi? Do I sense a jealous under-plot here? Like maybe old Yoda fears competition? Could he be the hidden hand? Maybe this is the true reason he'll lie to Luke, 40 years later, about his father! Certainly no other explanation for the lie is ever given. None. Not one. Ever.

(Now here's a thought. How come we never see Yoda take on an enemy with a light saber? Come on master, fire it up and battle a Sith Lord! That's a battle I'd pay to see! His secret advantage? A long time ago, oven mitts were made of asbestos!)

Could this be Clue No. 4? Maybe Anakin's conversion into Darth has a reason darker than any hinted at, so far. It sure makes more sense than Yoda being so flaming incompetent. (He can foresee the future, but can't sense something as big as "this kid's gonna someday fry planets and kill every Jedi"? How convenient.)

Forgivable stuff -- and the rest

Perhaps the biggest torrent of Internet complaining over "Episode I" concerns something that I'm inclined to overlook: the comic relief character, Jar Jar Binks. It may surprise you to learn that I'm not going to waste any time disparaging poor Jar Jar, or dwelling on hints at "Yes, Bwana" racism. I can take at face value Lucas' assurances that he meant well. Likewise, I found the Ewoks in "Return of the Jedi" to be a bit rankling, but bearable, perhaps even plausible! Hey, what's the harm? I can dial down my mental age in order to enjoy a good Flash Gordon-style sci-fi romp. Cute-dumb sidekicks ain't the real problem here, folks.

Even simpleminded heroes can be excused. For all the faults of every other lying Jedi, Luke Skywalker is a true hero throughout episodes IV-VI -- a good dude who remembers his friends and keeps his common touch. A demigod who never lies or forgets a promise. He's not very bright -- and can't act -- but he's a genuine good guy, all the way. And he gets a lot done, whenever he forgets Yoda's advice and lets himself get a little mad.

Despite all the clichés, plot inconsistencies and other criticisms I've levelled in this article, I am not suggesting that movie "sci-fi" tales need the same level of logic and character and intricacy you find in first rate science fiction. That would be asking way too much. Anyway, there's a place in this world for eye candy. Even the tsunami of schlock "Star Wars" merchandise flooding every store and mall doesn't raise my ire. Go for it, George!

If those were my sole complaints, I would not have taken the time to write all this down.

It's when a director relentlessly tries fiddling with our cultural moral compass that we should sit up and take notice. I'll trust Steven Spielberg with such power, because he's earned it. He's proved again and again that he loves this civilization -- an open society of rambunctious citizens -- that gave him so much. He's one of us, only more so.

George Lucas, on the other hand, should stick to producing simple action-adventure films -- good clean fun -- and lay off preaching. It's simply not where his gifts lie.

Blah (0, Offtopic)

unicron (20286) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282093)

Those who can't do, bitch.

Re:Blah (2)

Dark Paladin (116525) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282169)

Um, yeah.

Considering that Mr. Brin has written some of the best science fiction out there (I particulary enjoyed Earth), I'd say he *can* do, and does very well.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong.

Re:Blah (2)

Telastyn (206146) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282248)

Indeed, the very last paragraph's suggestion on how to actually make star wars make sense would be exceptionally cool.

Re:Blah (2)

dvdeug (5033) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282173)

Those who can't do, bitch.

You know what? David Brin can do; he's pretty clearly in the top 100 science fiction writers of this century. Maybe if you could write like him, you would instead of bitching about his writing.

Re:Blah (2)

unicron (20286) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282228)

I found the article fragmented and poorly written. His "plot holes" were so thin I was reminded of movie-mistakes.com, where a "plot hole" is a piece of paper moving between someone's left and right hand over the course of 10 minutes.

Re:Blah (5, Funny)

Dark Paladin (116525) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282312)

Biggest damn plot hole in the history of all plot holes:

C3PO: Hi, I'm a droid.
Owen: Hey, didn't I meet you before?
C3PO: No, I don't think so.
Owen: Yeah, you're C3PO. Build by Anakin Skywalker, right? You're the one who told everybody how itchy you were so you could get Padme to oil you up.
C3PO: I have no idea what you're talking about.
Owen: My dad married his mom! We worked together for about 10 years or so. Remember the whole sandpeople incident, where they came and kidnapped her for no reason? Or how we've been raising her grandson - your creator's son - for 18 years now? By the way - why didn't he ever come back and look in the local phone directory under "Skywalker" - he might have found out his son was right here.
C3PO: (Waves his hand before Owen.) We are not the droids you remember.
Owen: (Dazed.) You are not the droids I remember.
C3PO: (Waves hand again.) You want to purchase us. And give me an oil bath.
Owen: Bath.

Call me strange, but I think there was just a little plot hole there. Maybe a small one.

Re:Blah (3, Informative)

unicron (20286) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282385)

Except for the countless times people on this board have mentioned that in the Star Wars universe, droid routinely have there memories wiped out. Shit man, it's like the most posted message on this site.

Indeed! (1)

0xdeadbeef (28836) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282188)

You couldn't write an article like that and have it linked by Slashdot.

Re:Blah (4, Insightful)

rgmoore (133276) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282292)

Those who can't do, bitch.

So what? Brin is most definitely not in the "can't do" category. He's a fantastic author who's won a stack of awards for his Science Fiction writing. I'll admit that the one movie [imdb.com] made from one of his books was awful, but the blame for that lies clearly on Kevin Costner's shoulders, not Brin's.

Re:Blah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282387)

Just like those who can't post useful and contributory comments bitch?

The Biggest Problem... (4, Insightful)

tjensor (571163) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282097)

... with the new star wars films is nostalgia. We look back on the original three films with rose-tinted glasses, when really the dialogue sucked, the plots were generic, and acting not up to scratch.
The only new crime of the new trilogy is the over-reliance on CGI.
PS this isnt a troll I actually love Star Wars :-)

Re:The Biggest Problem... (5, Insightful)

MoneyT (548795) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282379)

But the thing about the original films was that they had a believeable flow. There was an empire and giant evil machine with drones to do their bidding. There were the remnants of the Jedi, calmly biding their time until the events allowed Luke to be brought into his own and hopefuly push forward and bring them back from near extinction. There were the Rebels, a small on the run group constantly trying to stay one step ahead of the empire. Hit and run attacks, going for weak points instead of all out brute force. And then there was the rest of the world. They didn't like the control they were under, but they didn't have a lot of say, so they just lived on. The worlds had believeability, the machines had believeability. The big energy guns had big cables, the ships and switches and dials and buttons, not just lights on a pannel. The problem with the new star wars movies is things aren't believeable, there are no motives, just actions.

Re:The Biggest Problem... (2, Interesting)

0xdeadbeef (28836) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282392)

But it was acceptable in those films, because it didn't really strain credulity. In this new batch, Lucus has underminded the previous films with shit like "midicholorians" and "vigirn births", and the acting is even worse. The stilted dialougue between Anakin and Queen Whatsherface is so bad its like hearing fingernails on a chalkboard! Make it stop!

And whats with the political intrigue so simple a child can follow it? Was that his intention? Perhaps he hopes it will sell more toys, if kids want to reenact the Senate debate.

And the racial stereotyping? Is it some sort of one-upsmanship with Star Trek? I don't know which is more offensive, the Shylock Ferangi or the "ah so" Trade Federation. Oh, oh! Meesa Jamaican retard!

I still enjoy the old films. I even liked the Timothy Zahn sequels. That's why I hate these movies, it's like George Lucas wanted to take a big chunky dump on everything he's done before.

Re:The Biggest Problem... (2)

garcia (6573) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282403)

why does the plot still suck? why does the movie rely on CGI that looks only slightly better than the original film's? why does the acting really suck?

I hated all the SW movies, especially AotC. It was boring, the movie didn't hold my attention, and I was certainly unimpressed by the CGI after seeing other movies (LotR).

I am not trolling either. I really think that the movie (for all the money that gets sunk into it) should be a lot better than it is.

gnome sucks (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282103)

GNOME IS DEAD!

GERMANS! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282105)

Site is /.'ed (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282107)

A mirror is available here [penguinhosting.net] . I knew this would happen.

goatse redirects are not funny. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282172)

I thought I'd share that fact with you.

well done (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282189)

Penguinhosting troll:
I respect your work.

The AC

Re:well done (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282284)

Thank you, I appreciate the support. Although I am not in charge of the penguinhosting site, I hope that the owner will not be upset. I thank him for posting the picture, most of all. If the blazing power of the picture, combined with an intelligent troll can inspire one person, then I feel as if my work is a success.

Penguinhosting site coordinator: I'd like to hear your thoughts.

A better and more accurate article... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282115)

...regarding these so-called "critics". While I don't agree with everything it says, it certainly makes a lot more sense than anything Brin wrote for Salon:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/16739/94442

Hes right but.. (3, Insightful)

trevinofunk (576660) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282131)

Its a smidge late isnt it??

I mean, shouldnt a critique of the movie be out, say, within a month or two of the movie being released??

Re:Hes right but.. (2)

Plutor (2994) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282233)

Hey, at least it isn't TWO FULL YEARS [slashdot.org] late.

Big Shock (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282136)

Star Wars sucks? This is news?!? ESB is the ONLY decent Star Wars flick. The rest are utter crap!

Go rent Blade Runner if you want quality.

At least Lucas appreciates irony... (5, Funny)

brooks_talley (86840) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282138)

From Time magazine, as quoted in the Brin piece:

[Anakin] can't let go of things. It makes you greedy. And when you're greedy, you are on the path to the dark side...

Cheers
-b

Meaning what...? (2)

SirWhoopass (108232) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282341)

The one bitch against Lucas that I believe is completely incorrect is the idea that he's "sold out", "greedy", and "just doing it for the money".

He's, basically, an artist (maybe not a good one, but an artist nonetheless). He likes to make movies and he likes to control every aspect of his movies (he was originally into editing, but switched to directing because he wanted more control).

He's made a whole lot of money, but what does he do with it? Does he have huge mansions or fleets of yachts? No. His lifestyle is quite simple for how much money he has. Lucas uses his money to build the coolest special effects shop, sound studio, and movie sound system companies. He uses it to further his movie work. In the A&E Biography about Lucas, a friend recalled how Lucas was still living like a starving idependent film maker, even after Star Wars. His friends had to remind him that he could afford better.

His movies may not be great, but I don't think for one minute that he's making them because he's greedy.

Good vs Evil (1)

uq1 (59540) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282143)

I'm am fully agreed with the comments made in the article. The flaws exist, some a large, some are HUGE. I am a really big Star Wars fan, and for me it simply boils down to the fact that is a classic tale of Good vs Evil. No matter how cheesey it may appear at some times (The sound of music scene sticks in my mind), I sitll thoroughly enjoy a good tale of Good vs Evil. The main reason this movie was my favorite is the fact that you get to see Yoda kick some ass and in what I believe was a realistic way for Yoda to act as a Jedi.

But Lucas doesn't even understand Yoda... (2)

sphealey (2855) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282329)

The main reason this movie was my favorite is the fact that you get to see Yoda kick some ass and in what I believe was a realistic way for Yoda to act as a Jedi
I think we were all waiting for Yoda to finally get mad. But rather than bouncing around like a bumblebee on crack, wouldn't it have been more in character for him to remain calm and collected, as Alec Guiness/Obi Wan does when he finally faces Vadar? Sauraman pulling things off walls and running around like crazy, while Yoda makes one smooth, effortless move after another?

And please explain, why just five minute after Obi-Wan convinces Annikin that he must abandon Padme to "do his duty", does Yoda abandon his duty to the Republic in order to save two useless Jedi?

sPh

Re:Good vs Evil (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282347)

You should really read the addendum. The plot twist Brin has is mind would preserve this Good V. Evil, just on a different level. It would be Vader & Obi-Wan Vs. Sith/Jedi. I was floored by the concept, and after thinking about it, it makes alot of sense. Surely there will still be some things to be explained, but it ties up alot of the loose ends.

Go ahead, read just the end of the article linked, it won't hurt.

Somewhat agree... (1)

dwlaw (606531) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282145)

I admit that I was impressed with the movie, although anyone could nitpick their way through anything if they try hard enough. I was highly disappointed with Epsiode 1, but I think Lucas made up for it in Ep2. There are loopholes, but I thought the movie was generally well constructed and had the old "Star Wars" feel to it. It's made me actually look forward to Ep3, which I had imagined would be the best of the series. My biggest regret is that, to me, Episode 2 really is what Episode 1 should have been.

--Dave

One thing that bothered me (2)

Chris Pimlott (16212) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282423)

How is Palpatine supposed to explain the clone army? "I propose to create a grand Army of the Republic... oh look, I already have one, isn't that handy?" As they said in the movie, it takes years to develop, breed and train a clone army, so coming up with one at the drop of a hat should raise of few eyebrows.

Phantom Menace (1)

red_flea (589243) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282160)

This may be a bit off topic, but it's something I've been wondering for a while. Why did they call it The Phantom Menace? With all the other titles, the relation between name and events in the movie is quite obvious. In Attack of the Clones, you've got clones attacking. In episode 4-6, you've got aptly titled movies again. So what the hell did the phantom menace refer to in the first episode? I didn't see any scooby doo like phantom runing around rattling chains menacing everybody... Don't give me metaphors. Even A New Hope obviously fit the whiney farmer kid with a light sabre. What's the deal?

Re:Phantom Menace (1)

Gehenna_Gehenna (207096) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282200)

I thougt TPM was a direct reference to Palpatine. The fact that the whole audience is screaming (at least I was) DON'T LISTEN TO HIM! HE IS LYING! HE GETS REALLY OLD AND WRINKLED AND EVIL AND (indirectly) GET DARTH VADER (sure, he was evil, but he was cool evil baby!)KILLED. He was the Phantom Menace, the cloak of evil that no one can see.. yet.

Re:Phantom Menace (1)

robinw (257786) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282267)

The Phantom Menace is Palpatine. At first, the movie seems like the bad guys are the Trade Federation, who are power hungry. It turns out, though, that Palpatine orchestrated the whole thing in order to get Senator Valorum voted out in a vote of no confidence, so that he could rise to the head of the senate.

In other words, he could care less about the Trade Federation - he only used them to get into a position of power.

-RW

Re:Phantom Menace (1)

dpilot (134227) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282344)

What's really funny is that the underlying plot of both TPM and AOtC is the same.

Step1: Palpatine engineers a crises by making secret deals behind the scenes, wearing his Dark Cloak.

Step2: The Imperial Senate responds to the crisis by granting Palpatine greater powers.

Step3: Palpatine double-crosses his co-conspirators, cementing his new position. Chances are he has really double-crossed both sides and placed himself in the winning position no matter who prevails.

First time, Palpatine got himself made Prime Minister. Second time, he got Emergency Powers.

Wonder what will happen with Episode III, besides putting the black suit on Anakin...

Re:Phantom Menace (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282374)

Its a reference to the acting of kid who played Anakin, he acts like the kid in the old TV show "Dennis the Menace." It was supposed to have been called "Anakin the Menace" but that would have been too obvious.

"Gee, Mr. Palpatine, I'm sorry I blew up your friend's spaceship."

David Brin (0, Troll)

skroz (7870) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282162)

The name David Brin pops up on /. every few weeks, and I feel obligated to flame him every time. Now he's commenting on AoTC? Pot, meet kettle... kettle, this is pot. David Brin, like George Lucas in the newest crop of films, starts with a great idea, rolls along, tells a good story, then takes a big fat dump all over what he's written so far. Want a neat story about gravity lasers and artificial black holes? "Screw that," he saya 300 pages in, "I want exploding meat puppets and space aliens. And if that's not enough, how about an earth spirit?" And Kiln people? Don't get me started.

A critic is just that... A critic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282181)

I only read about halfway through this... I get the feeling of "if he can criticize so well, then why can't he make a better series of movies?"

Anyone agree or disagree? I just have a high disregard for critics of anything I suppose

By David Brin, Ph.D. (0, Flamebait)

GuyMannDude (574364) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282182)

Why the fuck do people insist on putting "Ph.D." after everything they write? Am I supposed to respect his opinion on science fiction more because he has a doctorate in some field? Forget that shit. What if his doctorate was in sociology? I have a Ph.D., too. So what? Do I get bonus mod points if I change my login name to GuyMannDude, Ph.D.?

GMD

Re:By David Brin, Ph.D. (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282221)

Mod this guy up. He's gott a Ph.D. and OBVIOUSLY knows more than the others.

-A. Coward Ph.D

Re:By David Brin, Ph.D. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282279)

As my high school electronics teacher liked to say:

Ph.D. == "Piled High and Deep" ;)

Re:By David Brin, Ph.D. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282296)

The man worked hard to get his doctorate, and you bitch about him showing his accomplishments on his sleeve? Bugger off, mate.

Re:By David Brin, Ph.D. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282299)

Why do you feel the need to tell us all YOU have a PhD?

Re:By David Brin, Ph.D. (3, Funny)

Dannon (142147) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282325)

My father (who also has a doctorate) would quote the first Austin Powers movie on this:

"I didn't go through four years of evil medical school to be called Mr. Evil."

There's no sound in space. (1)

florescent_beige (608235) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282197)

Nobody since Kubric has had the cojones to do it right. Those big purple depth-chargey things in the planetary ring that blew everyones ear drums out? Would have sounded like a funeral home at midnight. Pet peeve; does it show?

Re:There's no sound in space. (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282214)

But does the purple thing sound awesome, or what???

Much better with sound than without!

Re:There's no sound in space. (2)

ceejayoz (567949) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282324)

Yes, everyone knows there's no sound in space. Yes, Kubrick did it right. No, Kubrick didn't have 10 minute long space fighting sequences.

Mute your TV during the space combat scenes in Star Trek, Star Wars, etc. and see how it is. Just stop whining about it and let the rest of us enjoy the cool sound effects.

In space, no one can hear you snore... (2, Insightful)

sammaffei (565627) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282350)

And we all remember how rivetting 2001 was (Monolith, snore, Monolith on Moon, snore, Monolith in Jupiter orbit, snore, etc...)

Hey, Star Wars is a space soap opera (sorta like Flash Gordon or Buck Rogers). 2001 is hard-core science fiction. Two distinct genres.

Please don't place a burden on something that doesn't deserve it.

Re:There's no sound in space. (1)

pngwen (72492) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282412)

Actually if you were inside a space ship you would here it.

There is no sound directly in space as there is no atmosphere to vibrate and tickle our ear drums. However, the explosion would produce a shock wave of kinetic energy which would rattle any matter it came in contact with. So we can only assume that the camera man's space ship is responsible for transforming this into sound for us.

Not to mention the fact that it is cool :-)

Adolf Hitler (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282225)

HEIL HITLER

George Lucas writes like a 5th grader (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282227)

Did george graduate from Eisner Disney Screen Play Writing Academy? God forbid lucas do some research and write a movie with real characters and elegant dialog. All he wants to do is play with technology and make beautiful scenes that fly out of monkies butts.

Maybe george needs to go back to school and learn to write scripts like pulp fiction, fight club, american beauty, taxi driver, god father, twelve monkeys, and apocalypse now. George has done a lot, but it was good timing more than great writing.

Evil (5, Interesting)

mmarlett (520340) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282230)

From the article:
"[Sith] are cold and calculating, almost robotic -- in the standard Hollywood motif of offering audiences snidely-superior villains to hate. In fact it's almost silly the way they calmly keep telling Luke to give in to his anger, reminding him of what he's been warned about. But they don't seem to give into anger themselves."

A girlfriend of mine had a cat that would sit and watch you all day long, not moving, not reacting to anything. If you got close enough, it would try to claw your eyes out. If you escaped and could still use your eyes, you would see the cat sitting there looking at you calm and cool. That cat was evil.

Giving into anger is more about making a person evil than it is about displaying emotion. Any master is calm, cool and collected. Luke was a student, not a master. They wanted him to be an evil student, and the quick path to that is anger.

Overall, I don't think that article was any more accurate or insightful than the movie it chose to criticize. It, too, was somewhat obvious and full of factual errors. (Lucas did not direct all five movies, for example.) I'm glad he found it entertaining, though.

Twinge of Jealousy? (3, Interesting)

theRhinoceros (201323) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282237)

The biggest irony is this -- I could scribble a 3 paragraph outline that would save Lucas. It would explain every awful inconsistency/paradox in his universe.

To me, something about Brin's vehemence moves him from "critique for criticism's sake" into "personal beef with Lucas"-land. Or more likely he envies Lucas' success compared to what he considers more legitimate and well-written sci-fi (his own work?).

Re:Twinge of Jealousy? (2)

brooks_talley (86840) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282309)

I totally agree. He makes a few good points, but then he brings up Hitler / the Holocaust not just once, but *twice*. Not exactly the sign of an evenhanded critic who just has some stylistic/technical issues with a movie plot.

Cheers
-b

Re:Twinge of Jealousy? (1)

friscolr (124774) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282410)

Godwin's Law [tuxedo.org] , Brin loses.

Re:Twinge[...] Yeah, but read his 3-paragraphs (2, Insightful)

chewmanfoo (569535) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282317)

Absolutely true. If you look at the prequels critically, as films and not as special-effects demonstrations, you see glaring holes in logic, motivation, purpose, etc. Brin ties all the problems up in three paragraphs. Absolutely astounding.

Ph.D.? Please ... (0, Flamebait)

KelsoLundeen (454249) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282238)

I don't know.

You know you're in trouble whenever anybody lists ',Ph.D.' after their name.

Or, even worse, when a 'Ph.D.' insists they be called: "Dr."

Ugh.

I didn't spend seven years at Evil Medical School (1, Offtopic)

HMV (44906) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282263)

to be called Mr., thank you.

Re:I didn't spend seven years at Evil Medical Scho (2)

KelsoLundeen (454249) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282319)

Nor did I spend two years at Evil Graduate School for an MA, two years at Evil Writer's Workshop for an MFA, and six years at Evil Graduate School for a Ph.D., but I don't go around signing my posts as:

Kelso Lundeen, M.A.,M.F.A.,Ph.D.

There's just something off-putting (and tacky) about tacking your credentials on stuff like this. I think it's an attempt by Brin to make sure folks know 'whereof he speaks', but it's annoying.

Strut your shit in your work, not in the byline for chrissake.

It is just a movie... (1, Insightful)

kashmirzoso (592597) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282240)

He has analyzed this movie way too much. Jesus, just enjoy it. Quit over analyzing it.

What AotC Needed... (4, Interesting)

secondsun (195377) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282247)

I think what would have really put Episode 2 over the top would have been if Count Dookoo was fighting the Dark Side. If he had seen the Sith's rise and the Jedi's incompetence, he should have moved to build an army and defeat the Sith before it took over the Senate, or at least gather enought power to form a decent resistence. Then everything mostly could have worked in the plot. Why kill Obi-wan? Because obi-wan knew where they were. Why fight the Jedi? The Jedi were being used as pawns of the Sith and had to be stopped before they caused too much damage.

Of course this is just one CS majors ramblings, but I would have liked to see that.

Re:What AotC Needed... (1)

jaymzter (452402) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282363)

You hit the nail on the head. I mean, if Dookoo was working for the erstwhile Emporeror, why did he spill the entire plot to Obi-Wan? I mean, damn, he TOLD Obi-Wan exactly what and where the danger was, but being a proud Jedi Obi-Wan refused to even consider forsaking the hopelessly inept Jedi Council. What would be cool would be if Dookoo was doing a Triple Cross: working with Palpatine so he could defeat him, and leaving the Jedi's because they have clearly lost The Way

Re:What AotC Needed... Exactly (1)

chewmanfoo (569535) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282373)

I agree. I was thinking the same thing as the movie played: surely Dookoo isn't under the emperor's spell, a drone for the Dark Side. Yet, he was, and I should have known, given Lucas's penchant for puppeteering.

The Case for (5, Interesting)

wiredog (43288) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282249)

the Empire [weeklystandard.com]


In all of the time we spend observing the Rebel Alliance, we never hear of their governing strategy or their plans for a post-Imperial universe. All we see are plots and fighting. Their victory over the Empire doesn't liberate the galaxy--it turns the galaxy into Somalia writ large: dominated by local warlords who are answerable to no one.

Which makes the rebels--Lucas's heroes--an unimpressive crew of anarchic royals who wreck the galaxy so that Princess Leia can have her tiara back.

Trailers had a negative impact (1)

I_am_Rambi (536614) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282255)

As each of the trrailers came out for E2, I watch them. I enjoyed them all except for trailer that made it look like a love story. That trailer made me wonder how good the movie actually would be. It turned out that the movie did not have as much "love scenes" in it as I expected. I was also surprised how Anakin were married before any "relationship" took place. That is what I would like to see in more movies.

Lucas' peers (3, Interesting)

GuyMannDude (574364) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282258)

Yes! Lucas needed to whittle the Jedi down in a tragic and colorful way. But couldn't he have shown them suffering calamity despite behaving cleverly and well? Doesn't he have peers to workshop this stuff against?

Good question but I suspect that Lucas honestly believes that he has no peers. It's unfortunate because the scripts that came out of his colaboration with Kasdan were pretty good, IMHO. Yes, I know Lucas co-wrote AOTC with someone from Indiana Jones Chronicles but I argue that this guy was just a yes-man for Lucas. Lucas really needs to team up with a good, known writer to come up with an interesting story for Episode 3. Maybe he'll come to his senses and realize that he needs some help in the script department for his final Star Wars film. We can only hope.

GMD

Sad news ... Stephen King dead at 54 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282260)


I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Horror/Sci Fi writer Stephen King was found dead in his Maine home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.

Beauty is only skin deep... (5, Interesting)

sphealey (2855) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282293)

Beauty is only skin deep - ugly goes to the bone.

The problems and holes in TPM could have been fixed with some quick editing and a couple of reshot scenes. It wouldn't have approached the first Star Wars, but then again very little does.

AotC was so utterly, unredeemably bad that it is unfixable. Sheesh - once glance between Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher in ESB carried more romantic tension than 30 minutes of moping between what's his name and Natalie. "Let's go to the mall Anni". As my 8 y.o. said "Yuck". How perceptive is the mind of a child.

sPh

What happens when you have a kid (1)

sjonke (457707) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282308)

You stop going to the theater to see obviously mediocre/generic films like this one and, moreover, you get a lot more critical of mediocre/generic films you do happen to make the mistake of seeing - you only get so many baby-sitting days....

Re:What happens when you have a kid (2, Interesting)

RocketJeff (46275) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282407)

You stop going to the theater to see obviously mediocre/generic films like this one and, moreover, you get a lot more critical of mediocre/generic films you do happen to make the mistake of seeing - you only get so many baby-sitting days....
Wow - that totally sums up my feelings for (not) seeing AotC. We get out to see a 'grownup' movie about once a month (if we're lucky) so we try to pick one we know we're going to like.

We wasted a 'movie night' on TPM so we passed on AotC. If the reviews (professional and peer) were outstanding we would have seen it, but they were all 'it's better, but not great.'

When I heard that it was going to be out on IMAX, I considered going to it but as my wife said "Why, so we can see a so-so movie on a bigger screen?"

Star What? (1)

MuMart (537836) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282314)

Star Wars (the first one) was shown on ITV last week (UK version of PBS I suppose). I had never seen it all the way through, so I watched it to see what all the fuss was about.

To be honest I was appalled. How can *anyone* truly believe this film is worthy of discussion today? The plot is as barren as an episode of Columbo, and the Battlestar Galactica audio-visuals just cap it off.

Grow up guys, it's a truly awful film...

Re:Star What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282348)

You had to have been there...

Star Wars is THE film!

Re:Star What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282356)

What!!??

sacrilege, how dare you!? Columbo was great.

lucas can't write emotions (1)

alexc (37361) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282326)

the problem with with aotc is george lucas lame attempt to inject emotions to the characters. the langauge came out of BAD romance novel.

Cheech and Chong (5, Funny)

DaytonCIM (100144) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282331)

Next movie will surely have a Chicano low rider caricature help Obi-Wan
make his escape with the twins.


Anyone know if Cheech and Chong are free?

I'm confused... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282340)

So you're all saying there have been more than 3 Star Wars movies???

Lots of children stuff like Ewoks and what not, eh?

Hmmmm. Leave the planet for a decade and all sorts of new shit happens.

Blog Blog George Lucas Blog (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4282345)

Blog Blog Blog Blog Baba Fett Blog Blog Blog
Blog Blog GL! Blog? Blog Blog Blog Blog
Blog. Blog. blog..

Blog Blog LBogBLb ogols,ss
f
s
Garble
Grable

And now for soemthing completely different..

------------

Has anyone noticed that if this guy had a real
point he could have organized into a clear cut article rather than disjoint jabber, no wonder Goerge Lucas doesn't listen to him..

Darth & Obi Wan ... a team? (5, Interesting)

mustangdavis (583344) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282349)

His crazy plot for Ep III sounds interesting ...
It would definately make Lucas look like a genius, but like the good doctor, I don't believe that Lucas would be smart enough (or would let his ego deflate enough) to use this terrific plot that has been presented infront of him.
Consider the possibilities: Yoda and the Emperor working together the whole time .... Darth & Obi-Wan setting this whole thing up to bring balance to the force ... how crazy would this be! Lucas would forever be known as a movie genius!
This would also answer the question of how the Emperor became so powerful with the force ... we still don't know where he learned the ways of the Dark Side ... maybe it was Yoda that taught him ... That would REALLY mess things up!
Think about it ...Yoda trained Dooku, who has obviously played a part in Anakin's turning to the dark side by showing him how powerful it is. Yoda trained Qui-Gon ... who trained Obi-Wan, who trains Vader. And if Yoda trained Sidious!!! WOW! At that point, maybe the universe should have been focused on pointing a death star at the little green bastard! ... or maybe Yoda was so smart that he knew this would rid the Universe of the Jedi and prevent the Jedi from taking over (for the long haul) ....
That story line definately has possibilities!

Getting angry can turn you evil (2, Insightful)

maddskillz (207500) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282355)

I thought this article was an interesting read, and he made some really good points. The fact that I neither love or hate star wars makes this it a little easier to look at this objectively.

The one thing that I couldn't agree with was when he said getting angry can turn you evil is a down right lie. He then brings up an obligatory Hitler reference. A better example would be if, say a military group attacked you, and you decided to completely annihliate everyone who is from their country. You fighting the group is not evil, but you going overboard and killing everyone is! Of course you would have had no reason to fight them at all, but you were mad at what they did to you.
Hope that makes sense!

the fix-all? (3, Interesting)

jdjensen (607014) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282371)

I read David Brin's article and noticed that he keeps mentioning how the whole series can be "redeemed" should Lucas decide to do "something special" to the plot. Of course, Brin never enlightens us to his fix-all plot twist.

Well, I think I might be on to what he's talking about. How cool would it be if Anakin's drop into the Dark Side was manipulated and guided by Yoda (and maybe some other elite Jedi) with the expectation that he'd eventually bring balance to the force in VI: ROTJ? Yoda ( or perhaps a council even higher than the ovenmit?) allows certain attrocities to go unchecked because he has a higher prophecy to fulfill. When I think about the possibilities, this could really put a brilliant and completely new spin upon the Star Wars universe. If done correctly, it really could be the next Empire Strikes Back in terms of having a plot that is more than predictable pubescent garbage (don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars).

But at any rate, those are my thoughts, and I'll admit that I don't read the forums and gossip websites at all. Does anyone else have any ideas as to what this "something special" which David Brin is referring to might be?

I can't possibly agree in a more disagreeable way (2)

beleg777 (551987) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282393)

[i]True, it helped that my expectations were low. Still, I found myself quite enjoying the first half of the film!

While I agreed with his overall response I completely disagree with most of his points. I didn't like the first half, except maybe the first scene where Obi-Wan jumps out the window. It was the second half that was enjoyable. While the plot held itself together better in the first half of this the dialog was painful.

I've found that I really dislike this guy, and the way he presents thing. But I often agree with his opinions. At least on movies.

Dissent is Good (4, Insightful)

DaytonCIM (100144) | more than 11 years ago | (#4282404)

There are many who will take offense at Brin's comments. But as a fan of Sci Fi it is Brin's duty to question Lucas and call him on his mistakes.
If more people step up and speak the truth about how much of a "let down" both of the "new" Star Wars films have been, maybe George will spend a little more time writing the third and less time worrying about the CGI.
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