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How The DMCA Is Enforced

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the brass-tacks dept.

United States 552

Hank Scorpio writes "Bob Cringley's latest column talks about a company, BayTSP, that performs most of the enforcement of the DMCA on the Internet. This is the company that collects data about who is sharing music or movies online, and this is the company to go after when you get busted! They claim to "go to the same places any user could go, look at the same files anyone else could look at, and we only probe the ports on your computer that you have made public." Interesting."

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552 comments

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292051)

Yo timmy boy, I've got your back, your my #1 nigga!

I think they should collect data (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292052)

about this site [goatse.cx] .

Re:I think they should collect data (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292265)

That site's got a wide open vulnerability on one of its ports!




ahhhhh, goatse, truly a classic for the ages.

Mirror please. (0, Offtopic)

fire-eyes (522894) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292061)

Ahem. Mirror please.

PLEASE think about this when submitting.

Re:Mirror please. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292090)

Stop bitching. You know that all the karma whores will fall over themselves to post a mirror, and you'll wind up with 5 copies in half an hour's time.

Re:Mirror please. (5, Funny)

cadillactux (577893) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292176)

Why Mirror them. We just took out the company that collects data about who is sharing music or movies online . What fun it is. We did the RIAA [riaa.org] once, care to hit this one while you are at it.

Well, We only probe(d) the ports on your computer that you have made public.. .i.e, port 80.

Okay, you can mod me down now.

FIX THE FLAG ICON (0, Offtopic)

geekoid (135745) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292077)

please.

r,w,r,w,r,w,r,w,r,w,r,w,r

Re:FIX THE FLAG ICON (0, Offtopic)

ImaLamer (260199) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292131)

Look closer, it's all there.

That first white is kinda cut.

Re:FIX THE FLAG ICON (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292233)

Ummm... Look at a real flag and then make your statement again. It's not all there.

13 stripes != 12 stripes
Real Flag starts and ends with Red.

Re:FIX THE FLAG ICON (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292139)

What's wrong with it?

Re:FIX THE FLAG ICON (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292229)

13 Stripes to signify the number of colonies.

Re:FIX THE FLAG ICON (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292349)

7 socialist,
6 White?

CmdrTaco - US Flag desecrator and anti-Delawarian! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292085)

As noted on the Smithsonian Institution's site [si.edu] , the first official American flag had thirteen stars and thirteen stripes, each representing one of the thirteen original states.

The flag icon for Slashdot's 'United States' section is missing its first stripe - the stripe that represents Delaware, the first state admitted to the Union. While a simple oversight could be forgiven, it should be known from here on out that Slashdot is in fact aware of the missing stripe, and even worse, refuses to do anything about it! [sf.net]

This vulgar flag desecration and rabid anti-Delawarism must be put to a stop. Let the Slashdot crew know that we will not accept a knowingly mutilated flag or the insinuation that Delawarians deserve to be cut out of the union. I ask you, what has Delaware done to deserve this insolence, this wanton disregard, this bigotry?

This intentional disregard of a vital national symbol is unpatriotic. Why, the flippant remarks CmdrTaco made about our flag border on terrorism! I urge you to join the protest in each 'United States' story. Sacrifice your karma for your country by pointing out this injustice. Let's all work together to get our flag back. Can you give your country any less?

Re:CmdrTaco - US Flag desecrator and anti-Delawari (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292143)

Who cares? Mike Myers said it best:

"Hey, look, we're ... in ... uh ... De .. la .. ware."

Re:CmdrTaco - US Flag desecrator and anti-Delawari (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292151)

Dude, get a life.

Step 1 to Solve Problem Company (5, Funny)

oval_pants (602266) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292096)

1.) Post company website link on Slashdot.
Step 1 complete.

Excellent

Re:Step 1 to Solve Problem Company (1)

grumpygrodyguy (603716) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292144)

Could someone post the following please:

1) Street Address
2) Phone Number
3) Names of directors and affiliates.

Re:Step 1 to Solve Problem Company (posting anon d (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292277)

which you would get off the website...

Re:Step 1 to Solve Problem Company (1)

baskil (607582) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292285)

1)15466 Los Gatos Blvd. Suite 109-368 2)408.979.7900 Fax: 408.979.7969 3)Mark Ishikawa - CEO
The cached stuff is moving really slow for me on this.

ACK! (1)

jflash (591249) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292103)

Time for me to get a list of all their IPs, so when they portscan me I can file a lawsuit against them.

It's time to put these wannabe hax0rz outta business.

Silly slashbot (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292192)

Time for me to get a list of all their IPs, so when they portscan me I can file a lawsuit against them.

It's time to put these wannabe hax0rz outta business.


That is a great idea, until you realize that your "basis" for a lawsuit has been fundamentally flawed for almost two years [securityfocus.com] .

you would think that ISP's would cut them out (3, Interesting)

johnjones (14274) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292208)

you would think that ISP's would just remove them

after all Acceptable Use means that I cant go port scanning why the hell should they ?

and they use all the bandwidth and after all if your a telco you PAY for the amount of data

regards

John Jones

Re:ACK! (2, Informative)

lostPackets (598793) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292346)

Can someone publicise the IPs so that we can all "do our civic duty" and reject all their packets?

Interesting.... (0, Troll)

penguin_punk (66721) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292105)

We only probe the ports on your sister that she has made public too.

Break and Enter? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292106)

I only go into houses that have left their doors unlocked....

What do you mean I can't be here? The door was open?

ZP

One way to fix it... (0)

Error-404NotFound (598574) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292109)

and we only probe the ports on your computer that you have made public.

Here is an easy fix, just go to www.zonealarm.com to close all your ports, and then if they somehow hack into your computer and find evidence after that then they are in violation of the current "you hack, you get life" law, so don't think it's a huge deal.

Re:One way to fix it... (2)

jerkychew (80913) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292350)

Explain to me how you're going to share files with all your ports blocked?

Probing port 80 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292111)

They claim to "go to the same places any user could go, look at the same files anyone else could look at, and we only probe the ports on your computer that you have made public."
I'd say it's a shame that they made port 80 public on their web server. A quarter of a million Slashdot readers are probing it right now... ;)

not this argument again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292112)

"There seems to be an increase in child abductions and murders in the U.S.," says Ishikawa, "and when the abductors are caught and you look on their home computers, you inevitably find kiddy porn. So it is a precursor to this bad behavior, and just as the Internet makes it easy to distribute child pornography, it effectively encourages these criminals. We are working to end that."

Did you check their refrigerators for orange juice? I bet that's a more solid indicator. In fact I'd say over 99% of child molestors have orange juice in their fridge.

Only the ports you make public? (1)

cfinegan (528161) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292113)

I think they'd feel a little bit different if we were to "only probe the ports on [their] computer that [they] have made public".

mirror (2, Informative)

natefanaro (304646) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292119)

here ya go, straight from google: http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:eTm4KN-KJxgC: www.baytsp.com/+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Why don't we be nice to him (1)

bsharitt (580506) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292121)

Let's all be nice to this guy. When he sees us as friends, we can invite him to a big Slashdot party, then we beat the crap out of him while we're playing our pirated music.

ha-ha! (2)

SethJohnson (112166) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292311)



I'll bring the beer to that slashdot party! Of course, I'll have to wahoo it from a 7-Eleven on the way there...

Slashdot's doing their own probing... (1)

Lothsahn (221388) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292124)

"We only probe the ports on your computer that you have made public."

Yeah, well, they just got a huge amount of users that decided to probe their public ports, namely, 80.

Looks like they're going slow already...

Sounds like he should go wardriving. (1)

BoomerSooner (308737) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292327)

I guess just probing what is open is okay there too.

Right. Land of the hypocrites.

How is this not illegal? (5, Informative)

Phosphor3k (542747) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292126)

and we only probe the ports on your computer that you have made public
This is illegal, at least in Maryland. Article 27, Sections 45A and 146 of the Annotated Code of Maryland prohibit "illegal access and the unauthorized manipulation of data using computer resources". Thus, in order for this to be legal, I'd have to give them permission first.

Re:How is this not illegal? (0)

Error-404NotFound (598574) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292159)

I'd have to give them permission first.

...and if you downloaded the latest Windows Media player than you already have, that is if they are in association with Microsoft in any way.

Re:How is this not illegal? (4, Insightful)

SirSlud (67381) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292170)

So it's illegal to probe the HTTP port on computers in Maryland with robots because you didn't get permission from the guy who admins the web site?

Isn't a public port part and parcel with permission to access said port?

Re:How is this not illegal? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292355)

Just because you are walking down the street and see someones house, dosnt mean you have permission to walk on that property and knock on that persons door.

Re:How is this not illegal? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292365)

Thus, in order for this to be legal, I'd have to give them permission first.
I'd say you implicitly gave them permission by opening the port to begin with, and not having it firewalled.

Before anyone starts with the "but do you go around testing peoples' doorknobs?" drivel: Having a computer connected to the internet is not the same owning a house with a driveway into the street. Accessing a public-facing service on a machine is not the same as walking into someone's house just because the door was unlocked.

Running a server available to the public is more akin to hanging an "OPEN" sign above your front door and then wondering why people keep trying to come inside.

Re:How is this not illegal? (1)

ianaverage (168691) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292374)

Ok...I have a question....Say I have https running on my server with some legal mp3s sitting behind it that i download remotely to listen to occasionally. my https port is public, but the stuff behind it is protected by encrypted passwords. to be in legal compliance, would i have to take such things down, or is that perfectly legal?

click at your own risk ... (1)

Bartacus (40172) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292128)

..."and we only probe the ports on your computer that you have made public"

... so follow that link [baytsp.com] at your own risk.

their fate is sealed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292136)

hmmm. maybe if we can keep them /.ed they don't be any hard for a while.

go get em boys

peace

neotrantor

Where do I start? (5, Funny)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292150)

"and when the abductors are caught and you look on their home computers, you inevitably find kiddy porn. So it is a precursor to this bad behavior, and just as the Internet makes it easy to distribute child pornography, it effectively encourages these criminals. We are working to end that."

Hmmm, So we go after people for crimes they have yet to commit, is what he is arguing. Someone should make a movie about that.

Ishikawa, the FBI thinks terrorists are sharing information by hiding it in images posted on eBay using a process called steganography.

What a penis. I guess he doesn't keep up on research.

If you look at Mark Ishikawa's business card, you'll notice that it lists no street address for his company, BayTSP, just [...] a post office box in Los Gatos, CA, but could really be anywhere in the Bay Area.

Or it could be located here: BayTsp (BAYTSP-DOM) 3150 almaden Expressway #234 San Jose CA,95118 US

Just publicly available information, Right Ishikawa?

Re:Where do I start? (1)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292272)

and when the abductors are caught and you look on their home computers, you inevitably find kiddy porn. So it is a precursor to this bad behavior

Argh, I just can't stop thinking about how stupid this logic is. Let me give you an example my stats professor gave.

Nearly 100% of people who do drugs as adults drank milk as kids, at least once. Therefore, drinking milk is a "precursor" to drug use.

Re:Where do I start? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292287)

ARIN:

OrgName: BayTSP.Com
OrgID: BAYTSP
Address: 19020 Skyline Blvd Los Gatos, CA 95033
Country: US
Comment:
RegDate: 1999-12-20
Updated: 1999-12-20

Re:Where do I start? (2, Informative)

LordNimon (85072) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292291)

Here [mapquest.com] is a satellite picture. Now we really know where he works!

(You'll need an AOL/Netscape "screen name" in order to view the image)

Re:Where do I start? (1)

Tsali (594389) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292303)

hahahahahaha....

Now he can get spammed as well. :-)

Driving Directions from SJC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292341)

Starting from:
SJC, San Jose, CA
Arriving at:
star 3150 Almaden Expy Ste 234, San Jose, CA 95118-1250
Distance:
7.9 miles
Approximate Travel Time:
12 mins

Directions
Miles 1. Start going towards the AIRPORT EXIT on AIRPORT PKY 0.0 2. Turn Right on GUADALUPE PKY 2.6 3. Continue on CA-87 SOUTH 2.7 4. Take the ALMADEN EXPRESSWAY exit 0.4 5. Continue on ALMADEN EXPY 1.8 6. Continue towards CAPITOL EXPWY/AUTO MALL 0.1 7. Continue on a local road 0.0 8. Turn Right on NEWBERRY DR 0.2 9. Turn Right on HILLSDALE AVE 0.1

Re:Where do I start? (1, Redundant)

moonbender (547943) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292373)

Or it could be located here: BayTsp (BAYTSP-DOM) 3150 almaden Expressway #234 San Jose CA,95118 US Just publicly available information, Right Ishikawa?
Ahahaha. Owned etc. :)

huh? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292152)

how do they know which ports on my computer i've made public? what if i'm infected with a worm which uses the gnotella port to form a p2p network? what if i've been sub-7'd? what about all the people who've had net access denied just for running tools like nmap?

it'd be fun to dig up their netblock from ARIN and create snort rules to look for sweeps on their part, then publish them.

OrgName: BayTSP.Com
OrgID: BAYTSP

ASNumber: 14478
ASName: BAYTSP
ASHandle: AS14478
Comment:
RegDate: 1999-12-20
Updated: 1999-12-20

TechHandle: MI70-ARIN
TechName: Ishikawa, Mark
TechPhone: +1-408-399-0600
TechEmail: marki@baytsp.com


interestingly, their netblock isn't easily available, and their website is externally hosted at sonic.net. anyone got some better clues on where these guys are attacking from?

PATCRP

"We have 100 percent coverage of ...... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292302)

...peer-to-peer file sharing," Probably means that they basically track people using p2p prgrams like kazaa, etc... "All we do is go to the same places any user could go, look at the same files anyone else could look at, and we only probe the ports on your computer that you have made public." Probably means that they check the folders that are shared shared, easily accessed through the p2p program.

Re:huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292306)

I'm assuming 408-979-7969 is his cell phone #, because it isnt listed on the company site as a contact #.

enjoy ;) ,..

Re:huh? (1)

user32.ExitWindowsEx (250475) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292363)


OrgName: BayTSP.Com
OrgID: BAYTSP
Address: 19020 Skyline Blvd Los Gatos, CA 95033
Country: US
Comment:
RegDate: 1999-12-20
Updated: 1999-12-20

# ARIN Whois database, last updated 2002-09-18 19:05
# Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's Whois database.

Welcome to my firewall! (2, Informative)

Bonker (243350) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292154)

BayTSP's website IP address is 209.204.138.224

Assuming they have a class C netblock, this means you can block 209.204.138.* and eliminate most probing from them.

Anyone else know of any other netblocks or IPs that belong to them?

Re:Welcome to my firewall! (1)

Kenja (541830) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292198)

Why would I need to do that? You can't even ping my home network through my firewall much less probe ports.

Re:Welcome to my firewall! (1)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292201)

Their nameserver is running on the same IP as their web site, it's probably some cheesy single IP DSL.

He probably has multiple ISPs, so good luck blocking him, you would have to block every ISP that gives DSL or higher service to the bay area.

mod this up!!! (2)

Unknown Poltroon (31628) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292207)

i mean it.

Re:Welcome to my firewall! (1)

SphynxSR (584774) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292219)

that site uses Sonic net, but I doubt that is even using that network for their attacks.

Re:Welcome to my firewall! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292223)

Find out who they buy bandwidth from and block them.

Re:Welcome to my firewall! (5, Insightful)

faster (21765) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292228)

this means you can block 209.204.138.* and eliminate most probing from them

Um, no.

Their web site is hosted by sonic.net. Blocking that only means their web server can't probe your systems.

I'd bet they're using a variety of cable modems and DSL connections with dynamic IPs to do the probing.

Re:Welcome to my firewall! (3, Insightful)

KelsoLundeen (454249) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292255)

Surely, they're smart enough to do most of their searching from other IP addresses, right?

This may be their business address, but no self-respecting enforcement company is gonna do all their searching and spying from their business IP.

In fact, I'd wager you'd have better luck blocking *all* of AOL, Verizon -- and any other big ISP you can name.

I suspect they, too, tend to overthink their anonymous abilities and probably figure that they can blend in much easier if they get some big-name ISP account (maybe even off-shore) and hit you with what looks like just another script-kiddie attack from just-another big-name ISP IP block. They're probably right in doing it this way, but I bet they leave some pretty tell-tale signs that -- once folks figure it out -- will make them easier to block.

Of course, I might be wrong. Maybe the anonymity sniffers are really closer to 'anonymous' than the people who think they're surfing anonymously.

Maybe this outfit does indeed have some kickass, wicked spycraft that they're pulling.

Re:Welcome to my firewall! (2)

zmooc (33175) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292281)

Um that netblock belongs to Sonic.net and looking at their rdns, they appear to be ADSL-addresses.

Re:Welcome to my firewall! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292322)

dear sir,
baytsp is run by a former cracker. they have externally hosted their web presence at sonic.net. they have not disclosed their netblock to ARIN. your post and the actions it endorses are futile.

try harder.

PATCRP

For those who dont support PBS (3, Informative)

JDAustin (468180) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292156)

If you look at Mark Ishikawa's business card, you'll notice that it lists no street address for his company, BayTSP, just a post office box. This is for good reason, since Ishikawa is one of the few Silicon Valley CEOs who regularly receives death threats. Uninvited visitors are not welcome at BayTSP, which has a post office box in Los Gatos, CA, but could really be anywhere in the Bay Area.

I certainly have no idea where the company lives, but I know why Ishikawa has so many enemies. It is because BayTSP acts as the primary enforcer for the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), a law that is widely reviled in the technical community.

The DMCA, which was put in effect in 2000, was an attempt by the U.S. Government to bring copyright law into the cyber age. But many people -- including, oddly, Mark Ishikawa -- think the DMCA goes too far by making it illegal for me to even tell you how to circumvent encryption or copy protection technologies. It makes the very passing of knowledge against the law whether or not that knowledge is ever used.

"It's a very flawed piece of legislation," says Ishikawa, who predicts that the government will rewrite the copyright law again "in eight or nine years" to correct the mistakes in the DMCA. But until then, the DMCA is the law of the land, and Mark Ishikawa is the Internet's top cop.

BayTSP is paid anywhere from $200 to $50,000 per month by owners of intellectual property -- primarily software companies, movie studios, and record companies -- to find who is illegally copying, distributing, or helping to distribute without permission their intellectual property. For example: Adobe Systems arranged to have Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov arrested at the 2001 DefCon security conference in Las Vegas for violating the DMCA by showing how to circumvent copy protection in Adobe's eBook software. The arrest was made on information supplied by BayTSP.

Now I am not in any way a fan of the DMCA. The purpose of this column this week is not to examine the DMCA, but rather, to gain some understanding of how it is enforced. BayTSP is an interesting company, and coming to understand how it does what it does can be very useful as you will shortly see. So please don't write to me complaining about the DMCA. Write to your Congressional representatives.

Mark Ishikawa came to the data security business from the Dark Side, having been busted years ago for breaking into the network at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. Preferring employment to jail time, he became a security consultant for the Lab and a lot of other places. Eventually, Ishikawa started a large ISP and web hosting company that he sold at a profit. Now he runs BayTSP.

BayTSP's business falls into two areas -- law enforcement and anti-piracy -- and it uses the same tools for both businesses. These tools are spider programs that scour the most traveled parts of the Internet looking for users who are offering to others files that are either illegal to even own or at least illegal to share. An example of the former is child pornography. BayTSP tracks for the FBI the global carriage of kiddy porn. When a big child pornography bust takes place, it is generally on the basis of evidence gathered by BayTSP.

"There seems to be an increase in child abductions and murders in the U.S.," says Ishikawa, "and when the abductors are caught and you look on their home computers, you inevitably find kiddy porn. So it is a precursor to this bad behavior, and just as the Internet makes it easy to distribute child pornography, it effectively encourages these criminals. We are working to end that."

BayTSP's spider programs use patented algorithms to scour public web sites looking for pictures, video, and music files. "Our algorithms are adaptive," claims Ishikawa. "You can cut a picture in half and we'll still find it, matching the cut-down version against a database of originals, effectively matching the electronic DNA of the target."

One thing BayTSP's spider programs don't do is sit at the Internet peering points sniffing all packets as they go by. "That would be wiretapping, which is illegal," he says. "All we do is go to the same places any user could go, look at the same files anyone else could look at, and we only probe the ports on your computer that you have made public."

Now we get to the part I find especially interesting, and where I think there is a lot of confusion among users. This has to do with how BayTSP finds out who is distributing kiddy porn or pirated music files. If you think your activities on the Internet are anonymous, you are wrong. When BayTSP finds an IP address that appears to be the source of child pornography or pirated music or video files, under the DMCA, it can subpoena ISP logs. These logs can directly connect even dynamic IP addresses to user accounts, making it clear very quickly who owns the offending account. Every ISP keeps these http logs, and even products for so-called anonymous surfing aren't effective in circumventing the technique.

"We have 100 percent coverage of peer-to-peer file sharing," Ishikawa claims. "If you are illegally sharing copyrighted materials, we know who you are."

Then why aren't there more arrests? In part, this is because the intellectual property holder who is paying BayTSP gets to set its own comfort threshold for exactly how much file sharing is too much, and how BayTSP should deal with offenders. "Adobe only wants to send out cease and desist orders, while some movie studios want to put people in jail," Ishikawa says. "There are people on the Net offering 50,000 to 60,000 files at a time for sharing. These people will get busted for sure."

For lesser offenders, under the DMCA an intellectual property holder can make your ISP remove the offending content from its servers. So while you may not go to jail, you might find that your Gnutella songs are no longer available. Repeat offenders lose their accounts completely. One issue is how quickly ISPs remove the offending material. "Sony wants it gone in an hour, but Uunet takes two weeks," says Ishikawa.

According to Ishikawa, we'll see major arrests in October of people who have been illegally (and flagrantly) sharing movies. With the evidence already gathered, the game is afoot, meaning this week is too late to stop sharing those movies and expect to get away with it. This might be a good time to get a lawyer.

Not even Osama bin Laden can escape the gaze of BayTSP. According to Ishikawa, the FBI thinks terrorists are sharing information by hiding it in images posted on eBay using a process called steganography. Doesn't that sound a little too sophisticated for al-Qaida? Can that picture of a dented Ford F-150 pickup with a For Sale sign really be saying, "Bomb the infidel Cringely's house?" Maybe, maybe not.

"The FBI has us looking for certain specific things," says Ishikawa, "but we haven't found anything yet."

Re:For those who dont support PBS (3, Insightful)

margaret (79092) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292240)

Why on earth would someone not support PBS? I realize some people think it's a waste of money, but what could PBS have done to make someone refuse to load a web page from their servers?

Bayesian error (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292157)

"There seems to be an increase in child abductions and murders in the U.S.," says Ishikawa, "and when the abductors are caught and you look on their home computers, you inevitably find kiddy porn. So it is a precursor to this bad behavior...

Presumably a similar argument would show that Windows is a precursor to bad behaviour?

Re:Bayesian error (2)

TRACK-YOUR-POSITION (553878) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292275)

Presumably a similar argument would show that Windows is a precursor to bad behaviour?

right because 95% of computers have kiddy porn on them...

Look its the civilian police.... (3, Insightful)

Tranvisor (250175) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292165)

"All we do is go to the same places any user could go, look at the same files anyone else could look at, and we only probe the ports on your computer that you have made public."

What exactly do they mean by probe? By that do they mean they illegally try to gain access to my computer? Violate my privacy? So if I have a ftp server up and running do they start trying to guess the passwords and logins?

Last time I checked port scans were being treated as illegal by certain large companies. Are they doing this to us as well?

Re:Look its the civilian police.... (2, Interesting)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292320)

Private Company doing work for Police.

Some Judges really don't like this behavior on the part of the Police since it may/may not be unconstitutional from the Due Process angle.

There is also starting to be a backlash against those Red Light Cameras for the same reason.

I'll be this company also gets a cut when there is a procescution, like how the Camera makers get most of the fine.

Address (1)

Shadow Wrought (586631) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292182)

You would think that somehwere there's going to be a physical address for these folks in the public domain. If its public, why not post it? Its doing the same thing they are, right?

speaking of probing public ports... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292184)

have you visited goatse.cx [goatse.cx] today?

Re:speaking of probing public ports... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292307)

yeah.. i just got done jerking off to it, actually... thanks tho!!

This is a private company? (5, Insightful)

jweb (520801) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292194)

So let me get this straight.... a PRIVATE (non-govmt) company is basically doing the dirty work for the FBI and *AA's?

Shouldn't investigating and collecting evidence for criminal cases (which is what their doing, the DMCA is the law of the land whether we like it or not) be the responsibility of a government law enforcement agency?

It looks like we slashdotted them. (2)

shren (134692) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292205)

We should have a story about them every day!

I wonder if they have any job openings. Evil is fun.

RE: Evil - Dick Cheney #@ +1 ; Informative (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292353)

I am writing to express my concerns about Dick Cheney and, more specifically, his goals regarding intemperate hatemongers. Let's start with my claim that Cheney intends to create a new social class. Repugnant champions of deceit, lies, theft, plunder, and rapine, yawping, shabby windbags, and incompetent spoilsports will be given aristocratic status. The rest of us will be forced into serving as their representatives. If you understand that a true enemy is better than a false friend, then you can comprehend that he argues that I am fork-tongued for wanting to expose his memoirs for what they really are. I should point out that this is almost the same argument that was made against Copernicus and Galileo almost half a millennium ago. Cheney's opinions deserve to be criticized because they separate people from their roots and cut their bonds to their natural communities. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we lived in a world without indecent buffoons? Stoicism doesn't work. So why does Cheney cling to it? It is only when one has answers to that question is it possible to make sense of Cheney's biases, because the reason Cheney wants to impugn the patriotism of his opponents is that he's entirely power-hungry. If you believe you have another explanation for his moonstruck behavior, then please write and tell me about it.

I know very few closed-minded goof-offs personally, but I know them well enough to surmise that he says he's going to spew forth ignorance and prejudice by the end of the decade. Is he out of his ostentatious mind? The answer is fairly obvious when you consider that I recently heard
him tell a bunch of people that all literature which opposes McCarthyism was forged by dirty, pesky carpetbaggers. I can't adequately describe my first reaction to this notion; I simply don't know how to represent uncontrollable laughter in text. And if you think that the average working-class person can't see through Cheney's chicanery, then you aren't thinking very clearly.

It may be obvious but should nonetheless be acknowledged that griping about Cheney will not make him stop trying to worsen an already unstable situation. But even if it did, he would just find some other way to pamper impudent careless-types. I cannot simply sit idly by while patronizing, neurotic turncoats resort to underhanded tactics. Period, finis, and Q.E.D.

The simple, regrettable truth is that Cheney's quixotic outbursts leave the current power
structure untouched while simultaneously killing countless children through starvation and disease. Are these children his enemies? The answer is not obvious, because his ideas are not witty satire, as Cheney would have you believe. They're simply the disrespectful ramblings of someone who has no idea or appreciation of what he's mocking. Whenever he tries to help noisome fugitives evade capture by the authorities, so do beer-guzzling, saturnine astrologers. Similarly, whenever he attempts to abandon me on a desert island, dishonest, belligerent menaces typically attempt the same. I do not seek to draw any causal scheme from these correlations. I mention them only because he wants nothing less than to ridicule, parody, censor, and downgrade opposing ideas. His vassals then wonder, "What's wrong with that?" Well, there's not much to be done with violent slaves to fashion who can't figure out what's wrong with that, but the rest of us can plainly see that most of you reading this letter have your hearts in the right place. Now follow your hearts with actions.

Time has only reinforced that conviction. You might contend I'm telling you this because I like to beat up on Cheney. Really, that isn't my
principal reason. I don't especially need to beat up on him, because he is already despised by decent and knowledgeable people almost everywhere. Think about that for a moment.

His confreres are unified under a common goal.
That goal is to make empty promises. This seems so obvious, I am amazed there is even any discussion about it. Cheney is penny wise and pound foolish. Okay, that's a slight exaggeration, but you get the drift. He does not want to besmirch the memory of some genuine historic figures because he is confused, doctrinaire, crass, and self-deceiving (though,granted, Cheney is all of the aforementioned), but rather because Cheney's idiotic claim that everything he says is utterly and completely true is just that, an idiotic claim. His lieutenants claim that "anyone who disagrees with Cheney is ultimately daft." First off, that's a lousy sentence. If they had written that I suspect that people who work with Cheney's satraps discredit themselves, then that quote would have had more validity. As it stands, I cannot compromise with Cheney; he is without principles. I cannot reason with him; he is without reason. But I can warn him, and with a warning he must undeniably take to heart: It strikes me as amusing that Cheney complains about people who do nothing but complain. Well, news flash! He does nothing but complain.

Statements like, "The odds are more than ten to one that it is undeniable by anyone but recalcitrant junkies that Cheney has no evidence or examples to back up his point" accurately
express the feelings of most of us here. I guess that my take on this is that when the waragainst reason is backed by a large cadre of blathering killjoys, the results are even more ossession-obsessed. Excuse me; that's not entirely correct. What I meant to say is that the main dissensus between me and Cheney is that I insist that Cheney, like many other crapulous degenerates, has joined in with the chorus of furies who have been tearing away at the remains of rationality since the dawn of Derrida. He, on the other hand, contends that a book of his writings would be a good addition to the Bible. He is like a stray pigeon. Pigeons are too self-absorbed to care about anyone else. They poo on people they don't like; they poo on people they don't even know. The only real difference between Cheney and a pigeon is that Cheney intends to overthrow all concepts of beauty and sublimity, of the noble and the good, and instead drag people down into the sphere of Cheney's own base nature.
That's why his policies are a load of bunk. I use this delightfully pejorative term, "bunk" -- an
alternative from the same page of my riminal-slang lexicon would serve just as well -- because he not only lies, but he brags about his lying to his buddies.

We must reach the broadest possible audience with the message that Cheney's words have served as a powerful weapon with which prissy loonies can galvanize a snivelling hysteria, a large-scale version of the nettlesome mentality that can put political correctness ahead of scientific rigor. Only then can a society free of his hateful perceptions blossom forth from the roots of the past. And only then will people come to understand that his bootlickers are too lazy to focus on the major economic, social, and political forces that provide the setting for the expression of a duplicitous agenda. They just want to sit back, fasten their mouths on the public teats, and casually forget that I appreciate feedback and other people's views on subjects. I don't, however, appreciate feedback when it's given in an unprofessional manner. I don't know whether or not you've ever been physically present at a public demonstration by Cheney's rank-and-file followers, but let me tell you, they're pretty fatuous. Easy as it may seem to stick to the facts and offer only those arguments that can be supported by those facts, it is far more difficult to break the mold and stray from the path of conventional wisdom. Cheney maintains that he has been robbed of all he does not possess. This is hardly the case. Rather, there is growing evidence that says, to the contrary, that I wonder if he really believes the things he says. He knows they're not true, doesn't he? Any honest person who takes the
time to think about that question will be forced to conclude that every time he utters or writes a statement that supports communism -- even indirectly -- it sends a message that he is
omnipotent. I maintain we mustn't let him make such statements, partly because he must think that the world has no memory, but primarily because prudence is no vice. Cowardice -- especially his stupid form of it -- is. Before Cheney spews any more psychoanalytical drivel, let me assure him that I sometimes ask myself whether the struggle to express my views is worth all of the potential consequences. And I consistently answer by saying that he plans to produce a new generation of out-of-touch meatheads whose opinions and prejudices, far from being enlightened and challenged, are simply legitimized. He has instructed his deputies not to discuss this or even admit to his plan's existence. Obviously, Cheney knows he has something to hide.

I sincerely have a hard time trying to reason with people who remain calm when they see Cheney hold annual private conferences in which sex-crazed swaggerers are invited to present their "research". His editorials manifest themselves in two phases. Phase one: obliterate our sense of identity. Phase two: practice human sacrifice on a grand scale in some sort of venal death cult. This is equivalent to saying that I stand by what I've written before, that I once managed to get Cheney to agree that it's amazing that wayward mountebanks like him still exist in this day and age. Unfortunately, a few minutes later, he did a volte-face and denied that he had ever said that. "Tolerance" means tolerance of all, not only of a select few, but given the way things are these days, we must remember that some of us have an
opportunity to come in contact with testy lowbrows on a regular basis at work or in school. We, therefore, may be able to gain some insight into the way they think, into their values; we may be able to understand why they want to dress up Cheney's profit motive in the cloak of selfless altruism.

Cheney's philosophies have been a millstone around our neck for quite some time. But there's the rub; one could truthfully say that Cheney uses good motives as a cover for evil ones. But saying that would miss the real point, which is that if you read his writings while mentally out of focus, you may get the sense that governments should have the right to lie to their own subjects or to other governments. But if you read Cheney's writings while mentally in focus and weigh each point carefully, it's clear that he is driving me nuts. I can't take it anymore! I've heard of cynical things like particularism and exhibitionism. But I've also heard of things like nonviolence, higher moralities, and treating all beings as ends in and
of themselves -- ideas which Cheney's ignorant, unthinking, predaceous brain is too small to
understand. One of Cheney's former mercenaries, shortly after having escaped from Cheney's iron veil of monolithic thought, stated, "Cheney has no table manners." This comment is typical of those who have finally realized that Cheney often recruits featherbrained extremists who bring to Cheney's cause new energy and a willingness to destabilize society. Don't make the mistake of thinking otherwise. Cheney does, and that's why we were put on this planet to be active, to struggle, and to discuss the advantages of two-parent families, the essential role of individual and family responsibility, the need for uniform standards of civil behavior, and the primacy of the work ethic. We were not put here to infantilize and corrupt the general public, as Cheney might feel. A final note: Interventionism is correctly defined by its snooty style, structure, and methods, not by its stated or apparent ideological premises or goals.

Fear of turnabout? (1, Troll)

TRACK-YOUR-POSITION (553878) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292221)

They probe the Internet for people doing what they or their customer's don't like, so they can incarcerate people in the real world. Do they not fear they shall be brought into harm in the real world for doing what people don't like on the Internet?

Surely, if vigilante/mob justice (well-known to be the least corruptable justice system of all) is to retain any respect, THIS COMPANY MUST BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE! I plead to the Vigilante Security Council and all member nations of the United Mob to hold BayTSP accountable for flouting our prudent resolutions on the DMCA issue!

Made Public? (2, Interesting)

ACNeal (595975) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292224)

How do they know what I have made public before they probe them?

The federal law says that they have to cause damage via unauthorized, or under-authorized access, or intend to cause damage to be guilty of federal computer fraud crimes.

My question is, does intending to make me spend money defending myself constitute intending to cause damage?

Only probing the address he made public... (5, Interesting)

futuresheep (531366) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292231)

BayTsp (BAYTSP-DOM)
3150 almaden Expressway #234
San Jose
CA,95118
US

Domain Name: BAYTSP.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Ishikawa, Mark M (MI70) marki@BAYTSP.COM
Ishikawa,Mark
PO Box 1314
Los Gatos, CA 95031-1314
US
408-399-0600 408-979-7969

Record expires on 11-Jun-2004.
Record created on 11-Jun-1999.
Database last updated on 19-Sep-2002 16:19:51 EDT.

well, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292282)

I'm assuming 408-979-7969 is his cell phone #, because it isnt listed on the company site as a contact #.

enjoy ;)

Another Address (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292364)

http://ypng.infospace.com/info/ypv3/list.htm?qb=73 74BF277A4&xmlurl=http%3A%2F%2Fyp110.superpages.com %2Fxml%2FspPage.phtml%3FCID%3D7374BF277A4%26PG%3DL %26R%3DN%26SRC%3DInfospace%26A%3D408%26P%3D0600%26 X%3D399%26MC%3D1%26PI%3D1&kcfg=ypus&ypinsp=0&searc htype=all&fromform=revphone&qb=7374BF277A4&qh=On+L ine+Access+Providers&qp=4083990600&qpa=408&qpx=399 &qpp=0600&qk=15&recid=On%20Line%20Access%20Provide rs

InfoSpace Lookup on BayTSP telephone #:

Bay TSP Inc
19020 Skyline Boulevard
Los Gatos, CA 95033

Re:Only probing the address he made public... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292375)

That's what the Infospace entry says for Bay TSP as well...

Let's pay a visit!

Bay TSP [infospace.com]

We only probe public ports... (4, Insightful)

AtariDatacenter (31657) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292232)

> ...we only probe the ports on your computer that you have made public...

A number of people have pointed this out. However, if this was a valid legal/ethical statement, then that would be the perfect justification for any electronic crime. A hacker says, "I wasn't doing anything illegal! I was only probing the ports that they made public!"

I like the argument in a way. It says, "Hey, I didn't go beyond my authorization to do this. Their site already had the authorization wide open for me to do this!" On the other hand, it can be used to justify anything.

What a numbnut (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292239)


"Mark Ishikawa came to the data security business from the Dark Side"

Came from the Dark Side? Sold out to it more like

"So it is a precursor to this bad behavior"

So, by this logic, is owning a computer.

what happened to the Constritution? (2, Insightful)

LinuxWoman (127092) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292248)

Thought we had a right to be considered innocent till proven guilty and a right to not be subjected to unreasonable search and seizures? Guess the DMCA somehow retracted important parts of the Constitution.

They read sites to check for possible coded messages. They scan computers for useful info and turn it over to corporations for suits and to law enforcement for arrest. Would have thought for sure to get those kinds of searches you'd need a warrant.

Oddly enough, on a related note, many of the tickets from the cameras at intersections have been thrown out because the systems were overseen/administered by private companies. Wouldn't this same tactic work against most legal actions based on info from BayTSP?

Re:what happened to the Constritution? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292356)

Unfortunately, there is nothing in the constitution that restricts a private citizen or organization from collecting information (in a questionably legal manner obviously) and turning that information over to law enforcement. There is already legal precedent to accept evidence in a court that would have been thrown out had it been collected by a government policing organization.

Since this is a private organization they should also have no special exemptions to the laws making illegal the procurement and/or storage of illegal pornography (in this case child pornography). However, thanks to selective enforcement of our laws they get around this issue too.

I wonder how many employees they have working for them that make archival "backups" of the company pr0n collection.

Maybe I'm just being silly but... (3, Insightful)

Java Pimp (98454) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292250)

"Our algorithms are adaptive," claims Ishikawa. "You can cut a picture in half and we'll still find it, matching the cut-down version against a database of originals, effectively matching the electronic DNA of the target."

Shouldn't they be getting in trouble themselves for either 1, downloading kiddie pr0n, or 2, compairing the images to a database collection of kiddie pr0n the've collected over the years?

I know, they are doing it for the greater good and are not redistributing kiddie pr0n but it still sounds funny...

Re:Maybe I'm just being silly but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292326)

Especially when you read this [wired.com]

BayTSP is small potatoes (4, Informative)

-=OmegaMan=- (151970) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292273)

The big boy is MediaForce [mediaforce.com] lead by the ever-pleasant Mark "The Tool" Weaver. Their complaint level dwarfs BayTSP's. Their complaint accuracy level, though, leaves much to be desired.

LINUX IS GOOD FOR JEWS, BUT... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292276)

Christ is better. Remember, Jesus was himself Jewish, and his blood now redeems the world.

im not going to comment on this (1)

C_nemo (520601) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292308)


>One thing BayTSP's spider programs don't do is sit >at the Internet peering points sniffing all packets >as they go by. "That would be wiretapping, which is >illegal," he says. "All we do is go to the same >places any user could go, look at the same files >anyone else could look at, and we only probe the >ports on your computer that you have made public."

WTF? Awh come on?
the logic is not strong in this one.

D.O.S. (1)

_crunge (515920) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292312)

So does slashdotting the page count as a massive denial of service attack?

Hmm (1)

.com b4 .storm (581701) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292313)

we only probe the ports on your computer that you have made public.

What are the legalities of this? Unauthorized probing of systems could be sticky in legal terms, especially where big ISPs are involved. Does this organization have clearance from the big boys, or are they just assuming no one will try to claim it's part of an unauthorized probe/attack?

Age Old Search (2)

DaytonCIM (100144) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292318)

"The FBI has us looking for certain specific things," says Ishikawa, "but we haven't found anything yet."

Bet ya, they're looking for Jimmy Hoffa.

AT LAST! IT HAPPENED! (2)

coene (554338) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292321)

To think that for once I am actually HAPPY about a site being slashdotted!

Would 300k people going .... (1)

SphynxSR (584774) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292329)

to a website mean that the site was being attacked. Maybe BayT$P should file suit against the guy who wrote the original article.

corporate/government sell out? (1)

ejaw5 (570071) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292335)

from the article, Ishikawa is quoted "It's a very flawed piece of legislation" and in the very next paragraph states his company is paid "$200 to $50,000 per month by owners of intellectual property -- primarily software companies, movie studios, and record companies"

Doesn't he qualify for being a sellout since he doesn't believe that the law that he is upholding/enforcing is right?

how to block baytsp (5, Informative)

reflector (62643) | more than 11 years ago | (#4292345)

run shareaza (gnutella) and install the shareaza security update, get the magnet: link here:
http://bitzi.com/lookup/ZYNHYUHEI3VQHUJTTT5 UOZZMUZ 7ADXKA.B3GVXM74XKME5FPIREMVW3YKTW42JSN6FYQO2HI

or, if you want to do this yourself, here's the info:
209.204.130.0 netmask 255.255.132.0 (baytsp)
209.122.130.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 (baytsp)

the first block (209.204)seems to be the one they're using, my security manager shows 58 hits
there with none on the second block.

Blacklist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292352)

I'm not a big fan of spam black lists. But this actually sounds like a good reason to use one. Submit baytsp.com as a spammer to several blacklists. Come tommorrow morning they can no longer contact most of their clients because the email is blocked. Getting removed from the list is a fairly involved process also. If this invalidates the use of blacklists, the more the merrier.

More IP# Google is your friend (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4292372)

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=baytsp.com&hl=en &lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=pan.2002.08. 26.09.41.04.480.6854%40cox.net&rnum=1
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