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HP to Heavily Support and Invest in .Net

chrisd posted more than 11 years ago | from the like-ibm-with-java dept.

Microsoft 218

Dr.Stress writes: "CNet is reporting 'Hewlett-Packard and Microsoft plan to invest $50 million in a joint effort to sell corporate customers on the software giant's .Net Web services efforts....HP plans to devote 3,000 consultants from its HP Services unit to the effort and also train 5,000 people in its sales and support staff.' Microsoft will provide additional installation support, and the companies will jointly market .Net services. This was announced previously, but this article contains a few more details. Frankly, as an HP employee, I am alarmed at all this closeness with Microsoft lately (this, plus the media center PCs....what's next??)."

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I also invest heavily in .NET (-1, Offtopic)

gazbo (517111) | more than 11 years ago | (#4317979)

That is all.

Re:I also invest heavily in .NET (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318096)

That was lame, but not offtopic. Try again, you fool.

Love,

neal n bob
(faggot-at-large)

God Help Us (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4317983)

I thought HP was getting involved towards the linux side... hopefully their linux support will continue!

Re:God Help Us (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318094)

HP will provide token-gesture Linux support as long as it helps give them good press amongst the geek crowd. Unfortunately for them, they see their main revenue coming from selling Windows boxen. They wouldn't want to upset Microsoft. They fired Bruce, after all.

blame compaq (0, Troll)

abhikhurana (325468) | more than 11 years ago | (#4317986)

Blame compaq for this closeness. I believe compaq was always close to M$ anyway.

Yohoo, first post and not a troll :-)

Re:blame compaq (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318026)

yohoo (yöhôô)
interj., &n., &v.
An exclamation of incorrectness - esp. when claiming first post.

blame Canada (1)

QQ2 (591550) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318044)

No, you got it all wrong,

It's blame Canada

But seriously, from a buisness point of vieuw this isn't such a bad idea. From an ideaoligic point of vieuw it is, but if I remember correctly coorperations rarely if ever have ' in the worlds best intrest' as part of there buisness model

split infinitives (2, Funny)

heffrey (229704) | more than 11 years ago | (#4317987)

grammar seems a bit poor in the title....

Re:split infinitives (0)

gazbo (517111) | more than 11 years ago | (#4317997)

Split infinitives are a relic of old language and no longer of any importance. Slashdot makes so many terrible grammar gaffes that it seems a shame to waste corrections on such insignificant transgressions.

Re:split infinitives (1)

heffrey (229704) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318043)

Actually split infinitives make language harder to understand. That's why we have grammar, to help us understand each other.

Re:split infinitives (0)

gazbo (517111) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318130)

I and many people would disagree. This person's post [cybernothing.org] quite nicely explains things, so there is no point me repeating it.

Yes, I'm all for enforcing grammar where it matters. I happen to think that correct usage of apostrophes is important, for example. In this case however, we are kowtowing to rules that have been outdated for centuries and have no impact on comprehension.

Re:split infinitives (1)

heffrey (229704) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318228)

Well, I disagree with this. In my opinion the split infinitive sometimes makes comprehension more difficult.

Testify! (1)

Dthoma (593797) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318124)

Just because it's not possible to split infinitives in Latin or French doesn't mean that it shouldn't be possible in English. That's why we use two words to make the infinitive in English. Some might say that technically it's not possible to split the infinitive because technically the infinitive is merely a particular form of a verb that does not actually require the word "to" to precede it.

Re:split infinitives (2, Funny)

RobotRunAmok (595286) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318057)

Geeks have been traditionally forgiving of split-infinitives. Lexicographers and sociologists believe this dates from Kirk's voice-over "To Boldly Go..." in the original Star Trek series.

Re:split infinitives (1)

Rufty (37223) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318074)

Infinitives in English can be split and should be. The prejudice against doing so is an idiotic Victorian pretension that attempted to force Latin grammar onto a more flexible language.

More information (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4317992)

ZDNet article [com.com]

What's next? (4, Funny)

FyRE666 (263011) | more than 11 years ago | (#4317993)

I am alarmed at all this closeness with Microsoft lately (this, plus the media center PCs....what's next??)

Well if memory serves, MS will use HP for as long as it takes to get its own team together, then screw them over. Of course, MS may really value the partnership, and have absolutely no ulterior motiv...... sorry, I'm laughing too hard to finish!!

Re:What's next? (4, Insightful)

SerpentMage (13390) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318078)

Exactly. This is MS's latest love slave. It did not work out that well with the others. Or MS has a new "VISION" and, well, you need new partners to realize that vision.

The old partners (IBM, DELL, BRISTOL, MAINSOFT, etc) just do not get it, like Microsoft does. But as the saying goes what comes around goes around. And right now one of the first companies that MS screwed over (IBM), looks pretty menancing for MS.

Re:What's next? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318160)


Unisys out, HP in? Unisys was a revolting company anyway...

Re:What's next? (2)

uncoveror (570620) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318392)

Did you know that IBM was behind the disasterous merger of Sperry and Burroughs that formed Unisys? That was just one of many examples of IBMs skullduggery. They also like to place moles in companies to bring them down, such as Carly Fiorina. [uncoveror.com] The few at HP who think buddying up with Microsoft will save them don't know they've already been sold out.

Acquisitions sometimes turn out the other way arou (4, Insightful)

amorsen (7485) | more than 11 years ago | (#4317994)

Caldera bought SCO and turned into SCO. HP bought Compaq and turned into Compaq. It is not that unusual.

Re:Acquisitions sometimes turn out the other way a (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318102)

No, HP and Compaq merged and turned into the New HP. Sort of like the New TNN, but without the Star Trek or pro wrestling. Go to www.compaq.com [compaq.com] if you don't believe me.

Re:Acquisitions sometimes turn out the other way a (3, Insightful)

haplo21112 (184264) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318273)

If only that followed through, and when Compaq bought DEC, they became DEC....we might still have a viable Alpha Chip...that might have had some clout to win some battles instead of being an also ran...
ah such potential...wasted!

Re:Acquisitions sometimes turn out the other way a (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318336)

Hard to have a viable alpha chip, when cash-poor compaq sold the chip and foundary to cash-rich intel, who was only interested in removing a competitor and aquiring some great engineers.

Another brilliant Carly move (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4317996)

After thrashing Lucent and closing entire divisions of HP, I see Carly Fiorina is again at it!

Bruce Perens (2, Interesting)

Bartmoss (16109) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318002)

No wonder they got rid of Bruce Perens...

Re:Bruce Perens (1)

dimmu (214039) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318181)

Yes, it's all a little bit too close after the lay off of Bruce. Would this has anything to do with the Compaq Merger ?

Re:Bruce Perens (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318443)

nay, they got rid of him because he's a twat.

What do you mean, "lately"?! (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318003)

Look, I worked at HP during the early and mid 90's. Let me tell you, cozying up to Microsoft is nothing new. Investing in Microsoft has been the stealth initiative of MANY of the ladder-climbers at HP. During my stay at HP, Rick Beluzzo was the big Microsoft pusher (ask me if I'm surprised he ended up WORKING for Microsoft in the end).

HP's downward slide didn't start with Carly, nor did it start with the merger--it started a LONG time ago, when the upper eschelons were taken over by MBA-types who thought that, instead of HP innovating, it would be MUCH easier to cozy up to the dominant monopoly.

Re:What do you mean, "lately"?! (2, Insightful)

constantnormal (512494) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318088)

Yup -- here's just the sort of thinking typified by such management types:
Let's see, we write software and we buy software from Microsoft... let's outsource our development staff to Microsoft for a cut in the pricing on the stuff we buy from them! We lose those expensive employees and get a break on our product costs! We're financial geniuses!!

So as they pollute and destroy whatever uniqueness HP products have, somebody else brings out a similar but better product for a lot less, and a third company brings out a significantly different, but more expensive product for a premium price. HP withers while the competition thrives.

Financial geniuses do not create world-beating products.

Never attribute to malice if stupidity explains it (1)

Gerry Gleason (609985) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318395)

"When the merger presented itself, one of the things we sought to do was make sure that (the new) HP's commitment was as strong or stronger than Compaq's," Sinneck said.

I might have suggested that there were close connections between some HP people and MS before the merger led to this ill-fated merger, but apparently they have been doing this to themselves for a long time.

Are they just killing off their Unix server business, or was that already more or less complete before the merger.

Re:What do you mean, "lately"?! (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318104)

Yes, I remember around 1994, HP decided to start pushing NT and switch over to Intel architecture from PA-RISC, by 1998. That's what the road map said anyway. That was the beginning of decline. So the powers that remembered were pushing Linux , when Compaq came in. Then there was the Apollo acquisition(1990?). Which when first executed, catapulted HP from 13% to 29% workstation market share against Sun's 27%. Two years later they were down to 14%.

HP has been very good at this one downmanship. Good to see they have not lost their touch.

.NET is great !!! (-1, Redundant)

datrus (265707) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318006)

.NET is great!
The .NET framework library is very complete and easy to use.
The .NET CLR is also very cool.
I will be nice when I can develop things using Visual Studio .NET and deploy the assemblies on Linux servers using MONO.

Re:.NET is great !!! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318020)

"I will be nice when I can develop things.."

why are you a bastard now?

You show the intelligence degree of .NET users. (1, Funny)

croanon (567416) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318049)

By posting such unrelated and stupid message to this topic.\n

Re:You show the intelligence degree of .NET users. (0, Offtopic)

datrus (265707) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318115)

hurray!!! .NET is super!
long live .NET!
I will love it when I will be able to deploy my assemblies on FREE linux servers!

Re:.NET is great !!! (5, Insightful)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318242)

.NET is great! The .NET framework library is very complete and easy to use. The .NET CLR is also very cool. I will be nice when I can develop things using Visual Studio .NET and deploy the assemblies on Linux servers using MONO.

Check out java. That does all those things, but it does them now, and it's got a lot of support and it's also multi-vendor. You will NOT be able to write stuff in VS.NET and run them on Linux, because very little of the framework classes are "open", for instance Mono uses its own gui framework based on GTK.

Re:.NET is great !!! (1)

datrus (265707) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318425)

Having used both java and .net, my preference goes to .net.
I think the .NET CLR is much more advanced than the java JVM (language independence, etc.).
I also like the operability with legacy code.
I also think the .NET framework library is better designed than the java library.
I also like the fact that a large part of the Framework has been submitted for standardisation.
I disagree with people that don't like .NET just because it's made by Microsoft.

Re:.NET is great !!! (1)

ThePeeWeeMan (77957) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318448)

They are, however, porting many of the classes except perhaps ASP.NET. Additionally, the public interface will have to be identical, even if the underlying implementation isn't.

Believe it when I see it (1)

Latent Heat (558884) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318471)

I will believe it when I see it if Mono ever supports System.Windows.Forms. Mono may become a competitor to wxWindows and perhaps Java in developing portable desktop GUI's that conform to a Mono class library for doing the GUI, but it will be a long time coming before Mono will run a GUI cranked out by Visual Studio, unless they want to go the WINE route.

Frankly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318007)

Frankly, I'm sure your managers would have an opinion about you espousing your opinions on Slashdot like this.

Carly Fiorina, I presume? (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318008)

This sounds just like another brilliant move by Carly Fiorina, after shutting down entire HP divisions (lab instruments and calculators among others).
However, history teaches that too close an alliance with MS bear a bitter fruit (think IBM)

I wonder what *we* could do against these corporate greedy b*startds...

Re:Carly Fiorina, I presume? (2, Informative)

Ours (596171) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318093)

They didn't "shut down" the lab instruments part. They made a spinoff called Agilent Technologies and that company seems to be doing just fine.

Re:Carly Fiorina, I presume? (1)

Brad Wilson (462844) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318297)

Doing fine, huh? With forced salary reductions, lay offs, and praying for the economy to rebound... I would say "barely holding on" is a bit more of an accurate picture about Agilent.

no kidding men!! (2)

bryam (449040) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318014)

Heavely???? 50M?? it is heavely? so what about the 1000M of IBM on Linux? ;-)

Re:no kidding men!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318121)

A thousand million? "Heavely?" Where the hell did you learn to speak English, the back of a Corn Flakes box?

Re:no kidding men!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318349)

Probably as a 6'th language. Where did you learn to be so condesending? Texas or New York? Quit being such an ass.

The true reason (3, Informative)

abhikhurana (325468) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318022)



Okay, now that I did the unbelievable by posting the second message which not only was not a troll, but also pinpointed the cause of this change in HP policy, there is a related story on ZDNET on this

Okay, now that I did the unbelievable by posting the second message which not only was not a troll, but also pinpointed the cause of this change in HP policy, there is a related story [com.com] on ZDNET. To quote from the article:


"Our relationship has significantly improved," Microsoft group vice president Jim Allchin told CNET News.com earlier this month.

Asked if the Compaq influence was the leading factor, Allchin said, "I suspect that's a large part of it."

So now you know why this happened.



Re:The true reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318066)

I'd take Allchin's words as truth; after all, he is the one that stated Microsoft's source code was so flawed that releasing it would be a threat to national security.

IBM (3, Interesting)

e8johan (605347) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318025)

It seems like this is a part of HP's plan to 'do an IBM', i.e. become a provider of complete solutions (HW+SW+Consulting). They've got the HW and consulting, but still need a big SW platform to sell and promote.
As for scaryness, yes it is a threat to the freedom online. We have to hope that Liberty Alliance will succeed and that average Joe will become aware of the lack of integrity this type of solutions can result in.

It's not that surprising... (1)

archetypeone (599370) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318034)

I used to work for Compaq who were very good at buddying up to everyone - Oracle, M$, Sun, Linux, etc... And considering Compaq accounts for a sizeable chunk of the new HP it's not surprising that they have taken this stance. It doesn't mean that HP won't stop competing with M$ by shipping *nix boxes.

Re:It's not that surprising... (1)

Corporate Troll (537873) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318071)

How do you "buddy Linux"? It's not as if there are executives you can take out to an expensive restaurant.
I hate Compaq, never saw them producing decent hardware. If HP becomes "the new compaq", I guess, I'll have to buy Lexmark printers now.

HP's always been in bed w/MS (4, Insightful)

Brento (26177) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318040)

Frankly, as an HP employee, I am alarmed at all this closeness with Microsoft lately

Then do something about it.

You remind me of the people who whine about the government, but never get out to the polls on voting day. What have you done about it? If you're alarmed by the closeness with Microsoft, then either you haven't been paying attention to HP or else you're one of the newly merged Compaq folks, who were a lot more open-source-friendly. HP's been in bed with MS for years: I distinctly remember HP being one of the first companies to adopt the restore-cd-only policy with their Pavilions, only including a restore CD and not an operating system CD. HP's Kayak dual-CPU workstations were among the first & best NT-running machines I ever used, and I know they didn't build it to run Linux. HP's always been close with MS.

So if HP's relationship with MS surprises you, then you need to get more active with your management in the day-to-day decisionmaking. Every time HP releases a solution that specifically favors MS, sometimes at the expense of their customers, speak up and try to change their minds.

Re:HP's always been in bed w/MS (3, Informative)

jarodss (243400) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318059)

Actually I also work for HP, but I am one of the converted, a red team worker. The word here is to pick up on linux, our servers and desktops will be offered in win2k, xp pro and linux options very shortly, so the techs here supporting them need to have linux knowledge.

So don't count on HP getting in bed with MS all the way, it seems like their just fuck-friends, at least for the moment.

Re:HP's always been in bed w/MS (1)

shut_up_man (450725) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318068)

Well okay, but look what happened to Bruce Perens when he talked down MS at HP... boom, fired. And he was a high-profile dude with quite a bit of influence.

Re:HP's always been in bed w/MS (5, Insightful)

Brento (26177) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318080)

Well okay, but look what happened to Bruce Perens when he talked down MS at HP... boom, fired.

Perens wasn't working within the company framework. If I think my company's doing something wrong, I don't speak out in public: I work closely with my supervisors and make sure they do the right thing. If they continue to make the wrong choices, and I've tried my best, then I don't play whistleblower and run to the shareholders. That marks you as somebody who's not trustworthy, somebody who isn't a team player. You pull that, you get fired, no matter how high-profile you are.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's how the system works. The officeplace is like the Matrix - ya gotta fight the bad elements from within.

Re:HP's always been in bed w/MS (1)

shut_up_man (450725) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318407)

In all my jobs and contracts, I've had only one manager who ever listened to anything I said. The others I could've said "Hey man, your ass is on fire" and they would've peered at me with glazed eyes and then gone to lunch, trailing smoke and bits of burning flesh. As far as they were concerned, orders and information flowed down the tree, military-style, and questioning them was like disobeying orders.

Of course, the one guy who listened... DAMN we got a hell of a lot of good, solid stuff done. Both of us had a really good time, too. He was really rare though, and although your advice is good, I find it usually gets me nowhere.

This doesn't mean I blow whistles and kick asses though, I usually clamp my jaw shut, stick my head down and get their stuff done... and move on.

Re:HP's always been in bed w/MS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318147)

>>>So if HP's relationship with MS surprises you, then you need to get more active with your management in the day-to-day decisionmaking. Every time HP releases a solution that specifically favors MS, sometimes at the expense of their customers, speak up and try to change their minds.

Hahaha. You don't work for a large institution, do you?

Is this really a surprise? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318045)

Of course they're going to be investing money into it. It's not like Linux is offering a true alternative at the moment and to keep people believing their a decent company they need decent understanding and support. I'm sure this is just the first in a long line of stuff announcements from various companies.

As for the MediaPC, that's just a look of things to come from Microsoft and it's attempt to handle DRM in software. Everyone knows they'll never be able to fully pull this off. With every Media Player update you get one step closer to this, whether you know it or not.

It'd have to be a hardware solution with the protection decoded in the sound card before a MS OS could really handle secure music ;)

HP is no better than MS:/ (1)

hatchet (528688) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318053)

HP officials, in Houston, disagree. Reverse engineering is just an "educated guess," and it needs to be reworked each time the targeted product changes, said Mark Sorenson, vice president of the Storage Software Division, at HP's Network Storage Solutions division. Also, reverse-engineered solutions don't give customers the mutual support agreements ....

That makes me just an educated fortune teller. Go figure..

Let's see.... (4, Interesting)

Dredd13 (14750) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318055)

.... toss Perens, cozy up to Microsoft ...

Anyone want to place bets on how long before HP "decides that supporting Linux is just too costly" and bails on the platform entirely?

Wouldn't surprise me if part of this MS/HP deal was MSFT saying "before we'll consummate this, in a few months, you've got to get rid of that thorn in our side Perens. We can't have him out there publicly lambasting us, as an employee of your company, if we're going to do business with you."

Re:Let's see.... (1)

Fred Tourette (608180) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318234)

'Anyone want to place bets on how long before HP "decides that supporting Linux is just too costly" and bails on the platform entirely?'

Exactly what I was thinking. Desperate companies do desperate things, and HP won't be the first company to sell their soul to the Redmond devil.

Then again, HP lost their soul long ago.

Why, YOU'RE next, HP (5, Insightful)

puppetluva (46903) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318058)

"Frankly, as an HP employee, I am alarmed at all this closeness with Microsoft lately (this, plus the media center PCs....what's next??)."

Let's look at past microsoft buddy-buddy relationships:
  • Sybase. They promise you access to OS internals in exchange for db internals knowledge, then they steal your product.
  • Sun. They license your technology in exchange for distribution. As soon as it seems like it is catching on, they try to sabotage it.
  • Resellers. They allow you to distribute product. If you gain any distribution power, they coerce you into complying.
  • Visio. They allow you to stay alive. . . as long as you don't expand into the Microsoft Office space and you "donate" technology to Powerpoint and other products. As soon as you get too valuable, they buy you for much less that they would have if they had let you grow unfettered.
  • IBM. You commision them to write a windowed OS to compete with the Mac. They steal your money and write their own while holding up your project.
  • Customers. You buy their product in good faith. The change the licensing terms on you (after the sale!) in exchange for fixes to the broken product you originally bought. The only reason you bought it, was because they've killed all competitive products, so you have no choice.


Well. . . from past experience, I think HP should bend over. . . we all know what's next.

The only defence would be to never make any money or headway in the business relationship at all. That way, if they actually kill your business while they are sabotaging it, they won't rob your grave and relabel the loot "innovation."

I feel really bad for Carly Fiorona. She may actually believe that she is digging a foundation for her company. . .

Re:Why, YOU'RE next, HP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318072)

She's digging something alright, but they won't be pouring any concrete in. ;)

Re:Why, YOU'RE next, HP (2)

mccalli (323026) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318073)

Not so with Visio - their aim was always to sell the company to Microsoft.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:Why, YOU'RE next, HP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318105)

You got SGI. You go around telling everyone that UNIX is dead and that NT is the way of the future. You end-of-life your industry-leading 64-bit RISC workstations and servers (and UNIX implementation) and become a PeeCee box shifter instead selling over-priced Windows boxen, except nobody buys them. Next thing you know you've had to lay off 90% of the company and your shares are worth nothing. Then, years late, creaking and squeaking, you wheel out your now antiquated 64-bit line and try to breath life back into it. Too late.

Re:Why, YOU'RE next, HP (1)

ThePeeWeeMan (77957) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318432)

IBM: They were the ones who couldn't market OS/2 out of a paper bag. Of course MS would want to cut its losses.

You are not taking it far enough (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318434)

MS is dominatly a supplier of Software. OSS is starting to eat into your figures and mindshare. What do you do? you go into hardware. First you trial in an area where you do not have any influence ( input devices, and perhaps game consoles). Next you set up 1 or more very large hardware companies as being totally dependant on you. The company must have true influence on the industry. Dell, gateway, and compaq by itself do not have that. HP has influence due to being in everything. Once there, partially destroy them and then buy them low. MS has > 50 Billion in the bank. They will most likely have > 80 Billion in about 2 years. How much of HP would that buy?

I use to work at the Ft. Collins HP and in spite of what I had heard, I thought that Carly had HP's best interest at heart. Now, I'm starting to wonder.

Re:Why, YOU'RE next, HP (3, Interesting)

tmark (230091) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318439)

I feel really bad for Carly Fiorona. She may actually believe that she is digging a foundation for her company. . .

Why feel sorry for an intellegent (and highly compensated) person who should know better ? Why not feel sorry instead for the misguided Compaq/HP foot soldiers and shareholders who are going to be screwed over by her bunglings ?

Re:Why, YOU'RE next, HP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318494)

Don't forget Digital Equipment Corporation. They jumped on the Microsoft bandwagon and now...

....what's next??)." (2)

smitty_one_each (243267) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318069)

Well, we can rule out his Majesty Satanic actually buying HPaq. That would trigger an anti-trust scatalogical storm of world-wide proportions.
So, how can Redmond achieve control without all of the legal overhead of a purchase?

Re:....what's next??)." (2)

sessamoid (165542) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318117)

Well, we can rule out his Majesty Satanic actually buying HPaq. That would trigger an anti-trust scatalogical storm of world-wide proportions. So, how can Redmond achieve control without all of the legal overhead of a purchase?
I equate Microsoft's relationships with many of it's "partners" as that between parent and child. They don't necessarily own them, nor do parents actually own their children as chattel. However, Microsoft (like parents) provide most of the essentials for daily living and survival. The children could run away from home, but survival away from home is a lot tougher than under the thumb.

Unlike human parents, Microsoft seems to have a tendency to either eat or kill their children when they get too grown-up.

Uh, No. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318485)

Bush has shown that the USA can be bought( I would guess cheap).
1) the apparent ending to the MS trial.
2) Comcast/ATT Broadband merger is a great example for near future. The FTC is holding back an investigation that will show that comcast did a texas style accounting similar to Enron/Qwest/MCI. I would guess that they were asked to hold it back. Bush has recently asked for the speed up the merger between these companies.

As to EU, they have no backbone. Look at how they have stood up to MS, When US was doing so. Now that we are not, they have given it up. Unfortunatly, the rest of the world goes along.

Re:....what's next??)." (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318500)

"Well, we can rule out his Majesty Satanic actually buying HPaq. That would trigger an anti-trust scatalogical storm of world-wide proportions."

Actually it probably wouldn't. Think about it, you then have a company in the position of Apple that manufactures it's own hardware and OS, but unlike Apple it then licenses the OS to other hardware makers like Dell, IBM etc. in the same way that Palm does.

To be honest, it would probably take the pressure off them a lot...

Media center PCs nothing new (2, Insightful)

objwiz (166131) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318070)

Computers have been built into stereo equipment for years. Pop open a proscan cd changer and you'll find a serial port which you can log in as root. Most stereo equipment runs embedded linux or BeOS. Shockingly more are starting to have Windows now that harddrives are getting added to the systems.

I used to write software for stereo components for Escient Labs [escient.com] , who had major OEM agreements with RCA, Harmon Kardon, and (more recently) Compaq (now HP). It was quite the cool experience to see all of my favorite hi-fi systems run linux.

Re:Media center PCs nothing new (1)

Salsaman (141471) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318199)

What's new is the built in DRM.

Counter it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318081)

What we need is other companies like Sun running campaigns to educate businesses about the dangers of buying into technology that's not cross-platform and show them how it puts a ball and chain around their ankle and ties them to x86 and a Microsoft OS. Dependence on one company is NOT a good thing and not in the best interest of customers. It's only in the best interest of the vendor and their bottom line.

Re:Counter it (2)

miffo.swe (547642) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318103)

I too have a hard time realizing that most people have already forgot how networks was in the 60-80'ies. To be tied into any vendor is a bad thing longterm because when other companies builds new great products you cant get them because your current tech isnt compatible with anything but themselves.

Most companies are in bed with MS (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318082)

...and that is despite whether they support open source products or not. Afterall, they're running a business and providing products or services for the Windows/.NET platform makes business sense -- short term and long term.

When will you people realize that there will always be Microsoft playing a large part in the market for minimumly the next 10-15 years?

is $50 million a lot? (1)

hpavc (129350) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318089)

with a few thousand people dedicated to this program and assumign they arent moving from .[otherthing] to .net is $50 million all that much money?

or is this just a bunch of hype to make the stock price possibly move?

i assume if a large vendor has to do a huge new worldwide roll out / market push for some new product that its gotta cost this much.

i am sure they all are doing the same thing. hp just decided to make some press headway with it.

use this as motivation (5, Insightful)

rnd() (118781) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318118)

A lot of people will complain "Boo hoo, I wish HP would invest $50Million in Linux. I hate Microsoft". The fact is, HP has invested a lot of money in Linux so far, and will continue to do so. .NET web services are a standards-compliant improvement to previously existing technology that will IF ANYTHING help to promote cross-platform solutions: In other words this will help HP deliver enterprise solutions involving both Microsoft products AND gnu-linux.

If Linux was really 10 steps ahead of Microsoft, markets would recognize that fact much more than they have. The fact is, there are some areas where linux shines and some areas where commercial software shines.

To me, this is a good thing, since it will raise the bar on standards compliance in the industry and create more niche areas for linux to make its way into the enterprise.

Re:use this as motivation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318291)

Since when will .NET web services be a standards-compliant improvement over anything? .NET is fundamentally insecure (the same as Windows) and the server side of it will only be available _on Windows_!

And what do you want them to do? (2)

g4dget (579145) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318120)

The have two choices for moving beyond C++: Java and C#. I don't see one as being a lot more attractive for HP than the other. And Java has some baggage: their past spat with Sun, and much more competition for consulting dollars.

(Of course, I know what I would want them to do: invest the $50m in gcj and Mono...)

the microsoft compromise (4, Insightful)

Chris Canfield (548473) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318126)

"Microsoft is in a leadership position here where we've got an opportunity to help Hollywood feel comfortable with digital distribution and to help them develop (digital rights management) solutions so consumers can have content everywhere," she said. "We have two relationships we have to balance here: the consumer who wants the content and Hollywood so they feel comfortable with that process and don't clamp down and make that impossible."

It's still my computer. If you don't trust me with your movies, then don't put the f***ing things on my computer. I'll still rent the DVD's, you will still make money.

Most people would rather own their computer and rent at blockbuster than simply having a licence for their computer and lots of pretty movies to slowly, slowly download. Since when is this any sort of *compromise* when the terms are dictated from above?

I suppose this makes OpenView for Linux... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318141)

Just a dream.

Does anyone have any idea if this is going to happen? I.E. they copy over the code and type make?

-- ac at home

The Digital - Microsoft Alliance (4, Funny)

Lol the unbeliever (311135) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318174)

What's next you ask ?

I do not know. I do have a collection of "Digital - Microsoft alliance" t-shirts from when DEC still existed.

Embrace and Extend.

A fool and her money are soon parted (2)

dcavanaugh (248349) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318229)

"I am alarmed at all this closeness with Microsoft lately..."

You should be. I remember when Digital Equipment was this close with Microsoft and they convinced M$ to port NT to Alpha. Same thing -- big investment -- deployment of thousands of consultants and support people. Look at how well that worked.

What little remains of DEC now belongs to HP, via Compaq. Those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it.

5 years down the line ... (2, Insightful)

mystik (38627) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318251)

...there will be two companies:

IBM-Sun, w/ java

HP/COMPAQ-Microsoft w/ .net

Explains why Bruce Had to Go.... (3, Interesting)

haplo21112 (184264) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318260)

If HP is coxying up with Microsoft like this, it explains why HP let go one of the most outspoken MS detractors.

Slashdot too??? (1)

jtseng (4054) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318267)

Ironic, isn't it, that the first thing that I see on this page for this story is an ad for M$FT. Next thing you'll know we'll see a poll that will be asking if people will be looking forward to use CowboyNeal.NET.

In an un related story.... (2)

Lonath (249354) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318270)

Dr.Stress: Frankly, as an HP employee, I am alarmed at all this closeness with Microsoft lately

In an unrelated story, Dr.Stress was fired from HP for making !MS comments.

Oh wait. This really happened didn't it?

And remember kiddies, never give money to the copyright industry for any reason forever. If you're renting/buying anything that gives money to the companies backing the **AA's, you're a part of the problem.

Investing 50 million in vaporware (2)

macdaddy357 (582412) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318309)

Can anybody explain just what the hell .Net is, and for that matter, why I need "web services?" It seems to me that HP is investing 50 million in vaporware.

3000 consultants? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318318)


HP doesn't have 3000 consultants in its services operation - unless everyone is now a 'consultant'.

Microsoft always gets somebody else to go first (2)

Dr. Evil (3501) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318358)

Microsoft has always pumped money into a technology until it eventually becomes successful (Internet Explorer and Windows CE to name two), but has anyone else noticed that they let everyone else bet their bank on MS technology first, then they learn from their competitor/customer's mistakes?

E.g. The Sega dreamcast. Odd how Microsoft didn't use WinCE for the Xbox isn't it?

Isn't Corel jumping on .Net before MS Office?

The IBM/Microsoft OS/2 partnership and the subsequent WinNT?

I'm sure there are other examples.

I'll say to you what's next... (1)

paugq (443696) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318376)

"Microsoft to buy Hewlett-Packard". How long before we see this to happen? Two years? Three years? HP is highly dependant on Microsoft, and Microsoft needs the support of big major PC vendors.

Nothing but a $2 whore? (2)

iceT (68610) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318463)

Does anyone else get the impression that HP/Compaq will do ANYTHING for a buck?

Sometimes, they're a Linux proponent. Sometimes they're a Windows toady.

If they WILL do anything that anyone will pay for, then why don't they just say that?

HP's new marketing line... (5, Funny)

supabeast! (84658) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318490)

We are supporting Microsoft! We are supporting Linux! We are going to move forward with HP-UX and Tru-64! Compaq hardware will keep on truckin! We love AMD and Hammer! We love intel and Itanium!

We will say anything to try and keep our stockholders from noticing that we made a former Lucent exec our CEO and are letting her run one of the most wacked-out mergers ever seen!

What do you expect? (2, Insightful)

littlea1 (546253) | more than 11 years ago | (#4318513)

If HP bought COMPAQ (heavy M$ machinery) and they are betting on Itanium (Does Intel sounds familiar?), don't you think the next logical step is to sleep with Microsoft?

HP never understood software except for New Wave (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318539)

Hewlett Packard have always been superb engineers and have had always had terrific support. You paid for it of course but you knew that before you looked at them. I call it value because you wanted quality and paid for it, knowing that you were going to pay for it. I never heard a single person complain.

So much for the hardware. Software has always been a different story and remains so. For example, recently I bought an old HP server in a garage sale and it had a DAT8 drive in it. It came with software but I bought it after the computer had been mongreled. The DAT drive works but can I get support from HP? oh no! It is nearly as bad as Apple but at least Apple is honest about it.

The only exception was when Hewlett Packard released New Wave. Software ruled! (personally I hated it then and I still do now that it is everywhere but HP did it first). Even though I hated New Wave I recognise that it was software of the finest water.

It is history now but the courts ruled against it (I can't even remember who filed the suit..) and HP never did software ever again.

Lately? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4318543)

Dr. Stress wrote: Frankly, as an HP employee, I am alarmed at all this closeness with Microsoft lately...

Lately? Heh. H-P got in bed with Microsoft long ago, at one point all but abandoning their Unix efforts and customers. I've always preferred Sun over H-P anyway, but felt that H-P would be waiting in the wings should I ever become sufficiently dissatisfied with Sun that I felt a change was necessary. But H-P's getting in bed with M$ originally, and their increasing support of All Things M$ since, completely removed them from consideration for me. Now my backup plan is some flavour of Linux on (probably) Dell hardware, should it ever become necessary.

Quite bluntly: I don't trust H-P to maintain any kind of commitment to anything not M$-centric.

Such a shame, what's happened to H-P :(. Once known for some of the best, most rock-solid scientific measurement and test equipment that could be had, and arguably the best calculators on the market. Now look what they've become: little more than Yet Another M$-Windoze-Me-Too PeeCee company.

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