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Wayback Machine Purged of Scientology Criticism

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the hey-what's-a-little-black-ink dept.

Censorship 443

muldrake writes "The Wayback Machine, an archive of websites as they appeared in their past incarnations, is reported by CNET in this story as having censored the Scientology-critical, in a repeat of the heavy-handed tactics used against Google as reported in this previous Slashdot thread."

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Sharks! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323105)

Why can't we all just get a few sharks with some freaking lasers on their heads?

Re:Sharks! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323318)

FRICKIN' lasers! Frickin'!

That is all.

New Business Model? (-1)

CmdrTaco (troll) (578383) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323114)

1: Cache old websites
2: ????
3: Profit!!!

Re:New Business Model? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323145)

2. Sell archived child porn to John Katz

Bigger news (3, Interesting)

Dancin_Santa (265275) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323124)

Lifelong Scientology foe, Nicholas Cage, was married to Scientology fan Priscilla Presley last month. Which one changed religions?

Re:Bigger news (2)

sirinek (41507) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323166)

Thats a very interesting observation. Do you have any sources that refer to Nicholas Cage and his anti-scientology views? This isnt meant to dispute your claim, I'm just curious. :)


Re:Bigger news (3, Interesting)

Dancin_Santa (265275) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323191)

A Google [] search results in a ton of links regarding Cage's and Jim Carrey's shenanigans. It seems that Carrey is more vehement in his opposition to CoS, but Cage seems to be right there with him.

Re:Bigger news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323192)

For now it's just all rumors. But we ARE dealign with an evil mind-controling cult here...

Re:Bigger news (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323243) evil mind-controling cult here...

look at that! you've discovered the definition of religion!

Re:Bigger news (-1)

Solid StaTe_1 (446406) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323302)

I agree with this post!

Re:Bigger news (2)

keytoe (91531) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323316)

And for the non-Japanese speaking folk, that link is here []

Re:Bigger news (1)

queequeg1 (180099) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323215)

Wasn't it Lisa Marie Presley (former Jacko spouse)?

Re:Bigger news (1)

Dancin_Santa (265275) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323225)

What'd I say? Whoops!

I, for one am glad. (1)

Torinaga-Sama (189890) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323126)

I am already tragically covered in Thetans. :-)

Just another in a series. (4, Funny)

rpresser (610529) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323131)

It's very typical of the Church's actions; it's very typical of reactions to the Church's actions; and the next obvious step is public pressure from those who have an opinion, resulting in a very typical denoument: reversal of the removal. Ah, this was probably a very typical comment, adding nothing of interest. Go ahead and mod it down.

To keep the ball rolling (3, Informative)

fobbman (131816) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323263)

Let's keep the chain going by sending your emails of disapproval here [mailto] .

Re:Just another in a series. (0, Offtopic)

deego (587575) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323347)

Also..It is also very typical of slashdot comments that ask to be modded down to get modded to +5.

Now, if somebody will just mod this very typical response down...

What the hay? (5, Insightful)

Apreche (239272) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323132)

What is it about these scientologists that they can get away with this? The same bill of rights that allows their crazy cult to exist is the same one that allows me to make fun of them. If I had the money I would make the mother of all anti-scientologist websites. If you are a scientologist and are reading this, I invite you to my house.
It's one thign to believe in an all powerful deity that created the universe.
It's another thing to believe in a book that some guy wrote, because some other guy bet that he couldn't create a religeon.

Doesn't anyone have balls anymore?

Re:What the hay? (4, Insightful)

Dancin_Santa (265275) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323148)

What is it about these scientologists that they can get away with this?

They have a deep understanding of the power and reach of the legal system. They also have deep pockets to finance squelching operations.

Re:What the hay? (1)

freaq (466117) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323297)

and they have copyrighted their urrrrgg ggllrrrrr {cough}
{gasp} (gllargh, that hurt)
(i think that washing my hands and keyboard would be smart right now)
teachings so you can't expose them without being in violation of international conventions.

the good news is, if you're being sued, you know you've got it right.

Re:What the hay? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323367)

The next thing you know, politicians are going to be suing newspapers for keeping archives of articles critical to them....

Actually, does this mean that slashdot is now going to be targetted since many of us are bashing the scientologists (sp?)

Re:What the hay?-MS (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323404)

"They have a deep understanding of the power and reach of the legal system. They also have deep pockets to finance squelching operations. "

Kind of like Microsoft.

Re:What the hay? (1, Offtopic)

kin_korn_karn (466864) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323210)

Sorry, I sold my balls for $55,000 a year and a good benefits package.

Travolta... (2, Funny)

Dareth (47614) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323212)

He promised not to make any more movies if they removed the complaints....

All together not a bad deal!!!

Re:What the hay? [ANYONE KNOW WHERE?] (1)

ramdac (302865) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323227)

Anyone know WHERE a good site for anti-scientology? I think I'll open a site!

Re:What the hay? [ANYONE KNOW WHERE?] (2)

susano_otter (123650) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323260)

Touch the link [] . It will take you to the canonical anti-scientology site.

Re:What the hay? (5, Insightful)

bogie (31020) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323240)

"If I had the money "

But you don't and they do. If someone will make it their life's mission to fuck you in ever possible way without relent for all of their existence, would you bother messing with them.

In others its the American way personified, money buys justice, and he with the most money wins.

I used to sneer at blanket statements like that, but anyone who disagrees at this point is living in LaLa-Land.

Consequences. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323343)

But you don't and they do. If someone will make it their life's mission to fuck you in ever possible way without relent for all of their existence, would you bother messing with them.

You know, one day they're gonna fuck with the wrong person--say, a Tim McVeigh type--bankrupt the hell out of them, ruin their life, the usual. And at that point, when said person has nothing much to live for anymore and certainly nothing to lose, Scientology HQ will go up in a big orange-red ball of ammonium nitrate and diesel oil.

Frankly, I'm surprised that it hasn't happened already. But with their present behavior, it's only a matter of time.

Re:Consequences. (2)

Malcontent (40834) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323357)

The scientology HQ is actually a ship in international waters at all times. It's immune from the law in any land and is pretty much immune to any kind of attack from a rogue individual. I am afraid you will need a submarine, missile, or a battle ship to destroy their headquarters.

Re:Consequences. (2, Informative)

theLOUDroom (556455) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323431)

I doubt that. Ever hear of the USS Cole?
Now if THEY we in a submarine, it might be a different story.

Re:Consequences. (3, Informative)

Spruitje (15331) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323417)

You know, one day they're gonna fuck with the wrong person--say, a Tim McVeigh type--bankrupt the hell out of them, ruin their life, the usual. And at that point, when said person has nothing much to live for anymore and certainly nothing to lose, Scientology HQ will go up in a big orange-red ball of ammonium nitrate and diesel oil.

Well, they've tried it with Karin Spaink and XS4ALL here in the Netherlands.
And they lost.

Don't worry, you can still access loads of it from (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323134)

Operation Clambake [] . It's doubtful that they'll give in to any CoS overtures.

9th post!!! (-1, Offtopic)

deadgoon42 (309575) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323136)


warning: this is flamebait (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323139)

What fucking good is a Constitution that protects individual's right to free-speech if private citizens can excercise the ability to censor others, under the false-guise of intellectual property?!

-end rant-

Re:warning: this is flamebait (1)

uberdave (526529) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323197)

I thought the constitution protected American's speech from *Government* interference, not other people's. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Re:warning: this is flamebait (4, Informative)

commodoresloat (172735) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323228)

The government makes the copyright laws which are used by Scientology to suppress views critical of the church. So the government is involved in the censorship rather directly. That's why copyright law includes fair use provisions, to make it consistent with the first amendment.

why in the... (2, Insightful)

Skal Tura (595728) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323140)

Why do they censor some sites, i thought their job was to preserve everything, not just some things.

Re:why in the... (1)

Anthracks (532185) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323362)

I assume it was court ordered, I doubt they just felt like it this morning.

Religion (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323144)

and "wayback," aka backassed, go hand and hand with one another. I like the Christians/Jews/Buddhists calling the Scientologists 'nuts.' It gives me quite a chuckle.

Maybe /. will get sued too? (5, Informative)

Drunken Coward (574991) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323146)

What is Scientology?

L. Ron Hubbard quote:
"Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion"
Reader's Digest reprint, May 1980, p.1
Hubbard later created the Church of Scientology...

Based on a text by ex-Scientologist Roland Rashleigh-Berry. Roland wrote: "This is my personal opinion. I grant permission to anyone to reproduce this material. This description has been tailored to people who have never been Scientologists and seek a simple and short explanation as to what it is and why it is surrounded by controversy."

In a Nutshell
The Church of Scientology is a vicious and dangerous cult that masquerades as a religion. Its purpose is to make money. It practices a variety of mind-control techniques on people lured into its midst to gain control over their money and their lives. Its aim is to take from them every penny that they have and can ever borrow and to also enslave them to further its wicked ends.
It was started in the 1950s by a science fiction writer named L. Ron Hubbard in fulfilment to his declared aim to start a religion to make money. It is an offshoot to a method of psychotherapy he concocted from various sources which he named "Dianetics". Dianetics is a form of regression therapy. It was then further expanded to appear more like a religion in order to enjoy tax benefits. He called it "Scientology".

Scientology is a confused concoction of crackpot, dangerously applied psychotherapy, oversimplified, idiotic and inapplicable rules and ideas and science-fiction drivel that is presented to its members (at the "advanced" levels) as profound spiritual truth.

The Harm it Does to a Person
The results of applying their crackpot psychotherapy (called "auditing") is to weaken the mind. The mind goes from a rational state to an irrational one as the delusional contents of the subconscious mind are brought to the surface and are assumed to be valid. It also makes a person more susceptible to suggestion since it submerges the critical thinking faculties of the mind into a partial subconscious state. It results in a permanent light hypnotic trance and so from thenceforth that person can be more easily controlled. The person will, to a much greater extent, believe and do whatever they are told. And of course this is used to the full in persuading them to hand over further money and dedicating themselves further to the cult.
The results of applying their oversimplified and inapplicable rules in life is to lose the ability to think rationally and logically. A person loses the ability to think for themselves and so they lose the ability to challenge incorrect ideas. This makes them easier to control. It also isolates and alienates the person from society so that they withdraw from normal society and into their "Scientology" society. This further increases their susceptibility to the influence of their group. They end up being afraid of society, believing all society to be controlled by a group of drug companies, psychiatrists and financiers all of whom report to more remote masters. In other words they are in a state of mass paranoia. They therefore avoid reading newspapers and the like since they fear it will disturb their safe Scientology world. It is a downward spiral into madness.

The science fiction content of Scientology is revealed to them after they have reached the state they call "Clear", meaning freed from the aberrations of the mind. However, perhaps "brainwashed" would be a more applicable word to describe the mental state of someone who has survived the near entire delusional contents of their subconscious mind brought to the surface and presented to them as "truth". On the "advanced" levels (called OT levels) above the state of "Clear" they encounter the story of Xenu. Xenu was supposed to have gathered up all the overpopulation in this sector of the galaxy, brought them to Earth and then exterminated them using hydrogen bombs. The souls of these murdered people are then supposed to infest the body of everyone. They are called "body thetans". On the advanced levels of Scientology a person "audits out" these body thetans telepathically by getting them to re-experience their being exterminated by hydrogen bombs. So people on these levels assume all their bad thoughts and faulty memories are due to these body thetans infesting every part of their body and influencing them mentally. Many Scientologists go raving mad at this point if they have not done so already.

The "Ethics" Trap
On the surface the Church of Scientology seems reasonable. The insane content of it is only revealed to a person when the early stuff has done its work and made them more susceptible. After a short while a person "believes" that Scientology is doing them good. They are then persuaded to help their new-found group further by donating money and/or working for the organisation for almost no money. Many people do exactly that.
"Ethics" is used to good effect to trap a person. A person's natural tendency to do good is worked upon. Yes - they want to be more ethical, but what is ethical? This is where a clever trick is pulled! "Ethics" is redefined by Scientology in such a way that to be ethical is to be a better Scientologist and obey the "church". Young people, not yet made cynical through the machinations of life and politics, are very keen to contribute to the world and to be ethical. So the "ethics" trick works easily into persuading them to join the "church". Many of them join an elite group called the "Sea Org" where they become brainwashed slaves. There they work a hundred hour week for almost no pay. There they are subject to every cruel whim of their masters. It is a living hell that they endure because of the conditioning they have received and this now perverted sense of ethics that they have accepted. The "Sea Org" is the ultimate in brainwashed slavery. They are expected to work harder and harder to achieve ever higher targets of production. If they fail to meet their targets there are various penalties. One of them is to be put onto a diet of beans and rice and to miss sleep. Another is to be sentenced to a period on the RPF (Rehabilitation Project Force). This is the equivalent to "hard labour". Such is the extent of their brainwashing that they actually write "success stories" when they complete their sentences.

Brainwashing Bites Back
There is no doubt at all that L. Ron Hubbard incorporated brainwashing techniques into Scientology to put people under his control. He even wrote a "brainwashing manual" which is still in existence today. However there was a cruel twist in his scheme. He fell victim of it himself. In creating his devoted slaves, the Sea Org, he created an audience that believed every word he said. Now L. Ron Hubbard had an over-active imagination plus delusions of grandeur. The negative feedback he would obtain by being part of normal society was replaced by the positive feedback from his devoted followers. Through this his imagination got the better of him and combined with his delusions of grandeur, his thinking became increasingly bizarre which, on acceptance, led on to more bizarre thinking and the idea that he and Scientology had the job of saving the entire universe He wanted to take over the world in order to further Scientology's aims to save the universe and so branches of Scientology were set up to try to influence governments and gain positions where they could influence to world to a high degree. So what started out as a mass confidence trick backed up with brainwashing became a monstrous and insane organisation with fantastic, fanatical ideals. Because of this change, the Church of Scientology survived the death of their founder. It is like a runaway monster machine that tramples on society and peoples lives that is very difficult to stop.
Stop the Monster
The whole machinery called the "Church of Scientology" needs to be jammed somehow so that more people do not get sucked in and the people already in it have a chance to get out. We must not forget the people already in this "church". Although they are the ones perpetrating this crime they are also the victims. They need our help as well.
And here we come to the "War on the Internet".

The War on the Internet
The "War on the Internet" is the war between the Church of Scientology and Internet users who copy their documents and post them on the Internet.
The people who are copying their material and webbing it are using the huge accessibility of the world-wide web to get information out to people to warn them of the insanity and danger of this cult. They are doing it for the public good. The hope is that if they can get this information out to the public and make it broadly known then people will be forewarned and will not join the cult. If they can starve the cult of new members in this way then the whole organisation may collapse and then the existing members can be helped to return to society. But of course the people within the cult believe only their own founders interpretation of things so they use every means they can to stop this. Usually the method they use is harassment through lengthy and expensive legal processes. Sometimes it is physical harassment. Sometimes worse!

The people who post and host the copyrighted and confidential works of Scientology are risking themselves to help warn the public about the dangers of Scientology. They have a strong sense of public duty and care for their fellow men. They are breaking copyright laws it is true but they are acting out of conscience and out of high human ideals. As they get broken down by legal or physical harassment more rise to take their place.

I hope this short piece of mine is a befitting and deserving introduction to these people, the "Warriors of the Internet".

In an article to alt.religion.scientology 6. September 1998, wrote:
Here's a short summary of my experience with $cientology.
Staff was very friendly with me as a student and pc, as long as I kept forking over the dough for services and "fund raisers."
I joined staff at an org and the attitude of other staff toward me got a little less than friendly.
I joined the Sea Org and put up with alot of crap from staff and LRH's policy because I thought I was helping myself and my fellow man.
I found out I was helping no one and hurting myself. I got out I began surfing the net and found many of my doubts and suspicions about the CO$ were very well founded.
I had been lied to and deceived by the CO$ in order to gain my trust, my money, my loyalty, and dedication to a lost and evil cause.
Now I am dedicated to voice my experiences and opinions of the cult of $cientology.

Membership statistics? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323147)

How many people actually join the CoS each year? How many members are there currently? Does anyone have a rough estimate?

Don't actions like these hurt the CoS's chances of getting new recruits?

Click only if you are hetero (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323152)

TCOS has every right to protect their property. When are you people going to figure this out. This is almost as bad as that cunt publishing the S&B 322 Book [] .

Re:Click only if you are hetero (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323176)

Yeah, and you're an Scientologist asswipe. You show your lack of intelligence by participating in that joke. Oh, and one more thing: xenu!

Some people... (0, Informative)

403Forbidden (610018) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323155)

Don't they know that they can stop the crawling of pages on google at least can be stopped using a simple robots.txt [] file? Looking now it seems that the same is true for the Wayback Machine robots.txt []

Re:Some people... (1)

403Forbidden (610018) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323217)

it seems that it modified the second link, here is a fixed one: Sry for the trouble.

Re:Some people... (1)

leviramsey (248057) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323222)

Don't they know that they can stop the crawling of pages on google at least can be stopped using a simple robots.txt [] file? Looking now it seems that the same is true for the Wayback Machine robots.txt []

What does this have to do with anything? Will the Scientologists hack and put in a robots.txt? The Co$ is trying to get pages they have no control over taken down.

You fucking retard. WANTS to be archived (5, Insightful)

phr2 (545169) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323230)

You've misread the article. It's Scientology that wants the Wayback Machine to stop archiving, since criticizes Scientology, so Scientology threatened It's sort of as if Microsoft wanted the Wayback Machine to stop archiving Slashdot. wants to be archived. Putting up a robots.txt file to stop archiving is the last thing they'd do.

Re:Some people... (2, Insightful)

KPU (118762) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323239)

Robots.txt contains instructions to spiders for the website on which it is hosted. does not have a robots.txt, so it is listed on google and the Wayback machine. Fortunately, scientology can't just make a robots.txt that blocks

Just a matter of time... (2, Insightful)

brooks_talley (86840) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323160)

It's just a matter of time before those cultists^H^H^H^H^H^Hmaniacs^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hspiritual ly enlightened folks get a federal law passed making it a capital offense to say things like "scientology is a cult" or "scientology is a scam" or "scientology may be slightly imperfect."

Really, though, this greatly reduces the value of the wayback archive, since it can no longer be considered canonical. I wonder what else they're omitting?


Re:Just a matter of time... (1)

hidden (135234) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323345)

>Really, though, this greatly reduces the value of >the wayback archive, since it can no longer be >considered canonical

You would have considered it cononical before? There was never any guarentee it was archiving 100% of the net. Only as much as possible.

So where's the evidence? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323370)

And so they should, I looked through Google and couldn't see anything bad about Scientology, they seem to be such jovial friendly chums. If they were bad, someone would have said something by now.

> It's just a matter of time before those
>cultists^H^H^H^H^H^Hmaniacs^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hs piritua l ly
> enlightened folks get a federal law passed making
> it a capital offense to say things like
> "scientology is a cult" or "scientology is a scam"
>or "scientology may be slightly imperfect."

Random Lyrics Post! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323167)

Anal Cunt

1. Jack Kevorkian Is Cool

first you killed an old person
then you went to jail
then you killed another
when you got out on bail

old people suck, kevorkian rules, old people suck, jack kevorkian's cool [x2]

you're in jail again
because you wouldn't sell out
let's get a bulldozer
and break him out

6. You Got Date Raped

you just wanted to hold hands but he wanted to fuck
he's twice your size and weight so you're shit out of luck

you got date raped, date raped [x4]

you whined to the judge, your eyes were full of tears
but you wouldn't have been raped if you didn't have 50 beers


next time you go out bring a chapperone or friend
or you'll probably end up getting date raped again
you got date raped

14. Pottery's Gay

pottery's gay, pottery's gay [x4]

you could'nt afford college, you took a night class
you made a clay dildo, and shoved it up your ass

Re:Random Lyrics Post! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323309)

Shut up Mike!

In age of bad PR, and in the land of hypocrisy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323169)

It has become fashionable to go around making threats to kill millions of human beings and being proud of it, while hiding the agenda behind such threats. I just feel I am living in a nightmare that never gets any better. I feel dark things closing in from all side, and my lungs being squeezed till every last drop of air leaks out. What have we made our world into? How did we get here?

So here we have the nation of Scientology. We sometimes like to refer to it as an evil cult. Othertimes we like to refer to it as a corporation. But, arnt were being hypocrates? What is true evil? Is Scientology as evil as the three great evil of our time, that have been well defined and written down by our elders?

This is sad.. I feel contrained.. I feel chained.. I feel a need to exit. I know others feel the same, why are you silent?

Re:In age of bad PR, and in the land of hypocrisy. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323189)

Um.. ok. .U sure you don't want a mint son?

Big oil getting on your bowls? Fear not!! We have Pepto-bis-crudole.. The answer to big oil problems and high gas prices, just swallow a gallon of this stuff and pour half of it in your car and all your worries would fly off to iraq.

Re:In age of bad PR, and in the land of hypocrisy. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323252)

Man! I felt exactly like that after having had 10 bean burritos.. Man.. the realease was good.. satisfying.. good lord.. u should try it.

The ultimate anit-scientology site (5, Informative)

geek (5680) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323170)

Operation Clam Bake. Wanna know an interestin fact? Scientologists believe we evolved from clams. Hence the name of the site "Clam Bake".

This guy has balls taking on this cult. I'm surprised they have put a hit on him. I mean Travolta was a bad mofo in Pulp Fiction.

Travolta (2)

Roadmaster (96317) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323194)

Well, he was also an idiot in Mad City. And who-knows-what in Battlefield Earth, based on the works of R.L. Hubbard, scientology's father.

Furthering the conspiracy (1)

geek (5680) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323264)

Travolta just got his Jet Airliner pilots license. he even flew his first flight recently. Maybe the scientologists are planning to fly Travolta into the Pentagon. lets all call the FBI!

Re:The ultimate anit-scientology site (2)

liquidsin (398151) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323271)

Sure, Travolta was a bad-ass in Pulp Fiction, and a pretty good psycho in Broken Arrow and Swordfish, but he played a big pussy in Look Who's Talking, and a greased up dancer for most of the seventies. Real scary, that ballet.

DOH! (1)

geek (5680) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323303)

I tried so hard to forget about Grease, and you had to come along and remind me. DAMN YOU!

Re:DOH! (1)

|Cozmo| (20603) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323423)

Saturday Night Fever was much worse.

what are they afraid of? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323178)

Really, what are they afraid of? That people will stop giving them money? That people will think for themselves? Dangerous things indeed.

Is this really supposed to help? (5, Insightful)

sam31415 (558641) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323181)

Fact: Most people on the net have probably never heard of the Wayback Machine.

Fact: Most people on the net have probably never heard of, either.

Fact: People on the net have, however, heard of major news outlets.

Fact: Censorship is always a great topic for the major news outlets to cover, because it helps portray the image that they would never do such a thing with their coverage.

Conclusion: What was the Church of Scientology thinking? This move will only increase the number of people hitting

Re:Is this really supposed to help? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323341)

although they may be thinking that even though clambake is a site slandering them, if they can have it removed, then they'll still have this whole "scientology" name being thrown out there... which may generate some curiosity for the "religion" ... maybe even soak up some more poor misguided ppl?

dont really know... just a thought tho...

man, i don't get the scientologists (5, Insightful)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323184)

it's an old public relations adage: "there is no such thing as bad publicity." learn your simple lessons in life scientologists!

i know about ONLY because of scientology's fervent attacks on it. if you elevate something up to such consternation, you only ignite everyone else's curiosity about what concerns you so much about something. how does scientology defeat by IGNORING it. letting it fade into obscurity. the more they attack, the more we all know about it, "we all" being those who could care less about scientology one way or the other. and therefore, we now all know about scientology's seedy underside. and therefore, us neutrals now DO care about scientology... that is, we don't care much for it! lol ;-P

Boom! (4, Interesting)

slug359 (533109) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323185)

Scientology follow the strict doctrine: 'Always attack, never defend,' one of Hubbard's teachings.

In anti-Scientology [] circles this is known as 'Operation Footbullet [] ' for obvious reasons.

Re:Boom! (2)

unicron (20286) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323275)

His more common and well known teaching is "Dobbs, they may be pink, but their money's green."

Re:Boom! (1)

EZmagz (538905) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323295)

Hubbard's teaching isn't the problem here. What's the problem is that the government seems to allow these guys to do whatever they want. Harassment, legal threats, hell, death threats, the list goes on...

I'd say the government should have stepped into this whole mess a while back, but it's almost impossible with our current Constitution. Oh well, makes for interesting news.

Slashdot.. (3, Funny)

Galahad2 (517736) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323204)

Wow.. Slashdot has looked the same for ever . I guess us nerds like to be mired in traditio... er... consistant. I mean, without the dates, old news, and missing images, I don't know if I could tell the difference.

Erm.. (1)

Galahad2 (517736) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323216)

Darn slashcode killed my link [] .

Scientology (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323206)

Anyone know where online I could get the Scientology Scriptures?

Re:Scientology (5, Informative)

DerekTheRed (579180) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323258)

You can't, genius. That's the whole point. Their "religious technology" is copyrighted, so anyone who posts it, or even refers to it, gets sued by the "church."

Apparently the deal is that A. they feel they have the right to copyright whatever they want (as I religious institution, I have my doubts about that) but also B. their beliefs are that if you hear the "higher level" teachings before you are ready, you will become sick and die. That's why it's always important to let a low-level Scientology "preclear" know that your consciousness is made up of many spirits called "thetans" from outer space who were banished to this planet billions of years ago by the evil galactic overlord Xenu. Then ask them if they are feeling well.

LawMeme Has Suggestions for (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323213)

LawMeme not only has a detailed report with lots of links, they have suggestions on what should do. See, Sherman, Set the Wayback Machine for Scientology [] .

God Damn these Scientologists!!! (5, Funny)

RestiffBard (110729) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323218)

oh, wait. he already has.

Wait a second (2)

Adam9 (93947) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323231)

Hmm.. so if I publish a page (or even this very Slashdot article) about the Wayback machine not archiving Xenu, would that page (or this article) get put into the Wayback machine? Seems like the press (esp. from CNN) might get archived and defeat the original purpose of suppressing Xenu.

Ever notice.... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323236)

...that the ones who are pro creation are the least evolved looking?

B.Hicks, r.i.p.

In an odd twist of irony (2, Funny)

goodchef (213729) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323241)

If you want your site removed from the archive, their FAQ [] refers you to their removing documents page [] ... which comes back with a "page not found" error.

Re:In an odd twist of irony (0)

MadBurner (607889) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323342)

LOL that's funny. also blocked from ARCHIVE.ORG (5, Informative)

touretzky (215593) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323253)

As the owners of [] , one of the websites that has been blocked completely from the Internet Archive, we were left puzzled and disturbed by the recent explanation provided by for our site's omission.

While we understand that the organization behind the Wayback Machine does not want to unwittingly contribute to copyright infringement, we are distressed by the way in which the removal of our site was conducted, and the lack of feedback that we received from when we questioned this decision earlier this year.

When a Wayback Machine user attempts to access the archived version of, they are instead provided with a misleading message claiming that the 'site owners' requested that it not be included in the archive. This is wholly untrue, and entirely in contradiction to the actual views of the website owners in question, who would very much like to see our site become part of the Internet Archive. The material contained within is wholly owned and maintained by its site owners.

Unfortunately, as has become clear in recent days, is not the only site that has been summarily removed from the Archive based on complaints from the Church of Scientology. In the explanation recently provided by, the writer notes that the Church "asserted ownership" of an unknown quantity of material that was, at the time, available through the Wayback Machine archives. The maintainers of, however, have apparently made no effort whatsoever to inform site owners of these complaints lodged against their material, and in fact, until now, had not even replied to direct questions regarding the removal of certain sites when asked by the site owners in question.

This is clearly not an acceptable system for determining what sites or material should be archived by the Wayback Machine, since it does not adhere to one of the main provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act: the counter-notification process.

Under the DMCA, the owner of a site that has been alleged to contain infringing material has the right to challenge that claim via a counternotification letter to the hosting ISP if he or she believes that the material in question does not infringe on the copyright in question. After receiving this counter-notification from the user, the ISP is obliged to replace any files that were temporarily removed pending the complaint, at which point the original complainant must either initiate formal legal action against the owner of the site, or drop the matter entirely.

This system provides an important check to the sometimes perilous balance between the rights of copyright owners, and those of users. By formalizing the process, and allowing a response from the individual responsible for the alleged infringement, it frees the hosting company from the annoyance of dealing with frivolous claims.

A similar situation that arose resulted from similar complaints made by Church of Scientology lawyers about certain listings on the popular search engine Google. These complaints initially resulted in the wholesale removal of several Scientology-related sites from the Google database. Once this omission was discovered, the decision taken by Google to remove the sites without notice led to an outcry from its users. In fact, on closer examination of the complaints from Scientology, it became immediately obvious that the Church's lawyers were acting in bad faith by deliberately mixing trademark and copyright complaints, even though trademark complaints are not covered under the DMCA at all.

The ensuing barrage of criticism and media coverage both national and international forced Google to reconsider its decision. After several days, the company replaced the links in question, and agreed to make public any further DMCA complaints in cooperation with Chilling Effects, a non-profit website dedicated to preventing abuse of existing copyright law. This solution was welcomed by Google users, who had felt betrayed not only by the removal itself, but by the lack of disclosure on the part of Google regarding the initial complaints.

The explanation offered by the Internet Archive does not mention whether the original complaints received from the Church of Scientology were made under the provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Such information would be helpful to site owners such as ourselves, as it would assist us in determining whether a complaint is justified, and remove any infringing material on our own volition.

Assuming that it was, in fact, a DMCA request, it would serve well to follow the same procedure as that eventually and successfully - - adopted by Google, and make every effort to inform site owners of such complaints in a timely manner. This could be done through a simple email alert system that would inform the site owner that a complaint had been made, or through a similar policy to that of Google, and publicizing the letters, either on the website itself or through an interested third party such as Chilling Effects.

This would allow the site owners to decide whether or not to issue a counter-notification, and relieve the Internet Archive of any concerns over contributory liability that may have played a role in its decision to remove the material without warning. It would also discourage copyright owners from making frivolous complaints about material that is obviously protected by fair use, since the process requires that formal legal action be taken within thirty days of receiving the counter notification letter.

Should decide not to re-list a site within the Wayback Machine at this point, which is, of course, its right, it should also refrain from suggesting that this was at the request of the site owner, and instead, explain its own concerns over potential infringement.

Finally, given the enormity of the Internet Archive project, and the benefits that it has provided, and, we hope, will continue to provide to the online community, it is essential for the Library maintainers to be open and transparent about the methodology used in selecting sites to be archived. Removing sites from the archive in a clandestine fashion, as dictated by the current policy, will only lead to increased concern that the Archive itself is rewriting the Internet history that it seeks to chronicle.

The Internet Archive's stated commitment is to provide a useful, wide-ranging resource for researchers, historians and scholars. It is surely in part due to such an admirable mandate that the Internet Archive has benefited from contributions from sponsors such as Alexa Internet, AT&T, Compaq and Xerox PARC, not to mention many individual supporters who believe in the idea of an Internet history that is freely accessible to all. It is doubtful that these supporters would want to see this ambitious initiative tainted by the suggestion that the integrity of the archive itself has been corrupted by those who would misuse copyright and trademark laws to censor views with which they disagree. The risk of such silent, selective discrimination against protected speech is great; the power to prevent such abuses by making all information related to such attempts to discriminate will always be greater.

Clearly, the best course of action is for the Internet Archive to adopt policy that is not only transparent, but dedicated to protecting not only its own interests, but those of copyright owners, site creators and, of course, the thousands of individuals who use the Wayback Machine and other Internet Archive services on a daily basis. On balance, the approach taken by Google, modified appropriately for the particular situation faced by the Internet Archive, would seem to be an excellent roadmap for the Internet Archive to follow.

Kady O'Malley [] , Dave Touretzky [] , and Scott Pilutik

Owners of []

good thing we've got freenet (4, Informative)

fdsa (78632) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323255)

Find information about scientology at

freenet:SSK@Zl388MATYv0Ah8GY6I2GuuNJapYPAgM/borg /2 //
freenet:SSK@WRhGF3h0ijFh1eVJnFu~H9OyIpAPAgM/an tisc ient/5//
freenet:SSK@jbf~W~x49RjZfyJwplqwurpNmg0P AgM/xenu2/ /

on freenet [] .

It HAS to be said! (0, Redundant)

unicron (20286) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323259)

Fuck L. Ron Hubbard and fuck all his clones.

Re:It HAS to be said! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323272)

...Fuck all you junkies and fuck your short memories....

Re:It HAS to be said! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323289)

Fuck all these gun toting hip gangster wannabes.

Re:It HAS to be said! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323339)

Fuck retro anything.

Re:It HAS to be said! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323360)

Fuck these dysfunctional, insecure actresses.

Re:It HAS to be said! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323285)

...Fuck smiley gladhands with hidden agendas...

-Who said Anonymous Cowards can't have Sigs?

Thetans DRM (1)

jmcnamera (519408) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323277)

The Scientologists need to use their secret Thetan DRM to protect their secret intellectual property rights.

Hopefully they'll protect it so well we won't have to hear about them ever again.

Now they need to go after Slashdot to get rid of these posts...

This might be the stark fist of removal (3, Funny)

sawilson (317999) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323308)

that the church of the subgenius tells us to
beware of. It's a much more logical church
than the SoC. Some examples:

"You'd PAY to know what you REALLY think." --Dobbs 1961

"This is the original Time Control program that has helped thousands to fear no longer the STARK FIST of REMOVAL."

"Follow your FOLLIES and COMPULSIONS and become rich like us"

Many many similarities actually. And it's easy
to become an ordained minister. Check it out.

Related Article (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323332) e= News&file=article&sid=350

Showing support (2)

dirk (87083) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323335)

And now, so show how much we believe that should be viewed, we're going to slashdot the hell out of it to make sure no one can see it! Maybe this is the scientologists real plans to take it down?

Maybe we need Chinese Internet archive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4323337)

Wouldn't it be ironical if Chinese are using US search engines for accessing "restricted" data and at the same time US citizens would using Chinese web archive for similar purposes?

Copyright statement (2, Informative)

Student_Tech (66719) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323354)

Has anybody read the copyright statement @ .
" Users are not authorized to download or transmit any of these materials electronically "

So by viewing it on a computer you are commiting an illegal act according to the words of the document. It also says that you may not print it.

Skiming their trademarks page, , that ones a killer. But skimming it in their trade marks they claim (among other things): flag, freedom, Source. After some items they have Symbol or Logo, but not after these.

Anti-Scientology site possible IF ... (1)

Ra5pu7in (603513) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323359)

Guess what? It is more often than not copyright violations that get these sites knocked down. A site that was 100% upfront about all sources of all information and didn't include any copyrighted material would be much harder for them to suppress.

i read something about scientology... (1)

Skal Tura (595728) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323385)

I just read the intro to scientology on and well now i'm really beginning to wonder why heavy-weights like amazon and google have been so polite to this 'church of $cientology'.

My conclusion is that either those companies have some 'believers' on their lines or they have been paid to take atleast temporarily all links to critical material about $cientology.
That might not be true but it mostly looks like that, good luck for and other sites like that and the 'Warrios of internet' (like they say to be in their site) crippling this 'Church of $cientology'

How twisted might have been the inventors, Ron Hubbard, mind been to make something like that up and then start believing it.
He apparently gave his little finger to the devil and devil ate the whole man!

Henson's home invaded just yesterday (5, Interesting)

muldrake (171275) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323405)

In recent news, Keith Henson [] had his home invaded [] just yesterday under pretext of bankruptcy asset investigation, because he has been bankrupted by Scientology litigation.

Fighting back. (3, Informative)

BoneFlower (107640) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323407)

Heres a few ideas on fighting back.

1) Sign up for all the free websites you can. Throw as much scientology material as will fit in the space provided. Get as many people as possible to link to you. As each gets knocked down, keep putting more up. The internet can be faster than Scientology. Don't do this on paid webspace or a website you make money from unless you can afford the financial loss of the site getting pulled.

2) Throw megs and megs of anti scientology materials and "copyrighted" Scientology texts in your Kazaa, Direct Connect, Gnutella, etc. share directories. In Direct Connect, you can have a line that users will see a brief description of what you are offering. MAke sure to put Anti-Scientology there.

3) Get on pro Scientology mailing lists(there have to be a few with open membership) and spam it with anti scientology information. Even if they make it an invite only list in response, you still have won as fewer impressionable minds will randomly join.

Of course, you have to be a little careful especially with the last tactic, don't use your ISP email address.

Interesting thread in the forums (5, Informative)

fobbman (131816) | more than 11 years ago | (#4323408)

Read all about it over in their forums in this thread [] .

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