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Flirting With Mac OS X

Hemos posted more than 12 years ago | from the opening-up dept.

Apple 1147

An anonymous reader wrote to us with an article on Byte from Moshe Bar about flirting with using OS X. Taco and I are both strongly considering beginning to use OS X as a primary laptops - anyone else looking at doing this? And anyone from Apple that can get me a good price on super TiBooks? *grin*

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Only 1 button! (-1, Flamebait)

gdc34 (604385) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334805)

But mummy, its only got one trackpad button!

Re:Only 1 button! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334842)

Get a Microsoft scroll mouse for $20 bucks.


Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334999)

Taco and I are both strongly considering beginning to use OSX as a primary laptops

Translation: We're regulation fags, but thinking of becoming mac fags as well.

Laptop is apple's strength (2, Interesting)

Duds (100634) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334807)

I'm certinally considering a Mac laptop. I don't really get on with the design desktopwise, but as a laptop something like the powerbooks look really nice.

Plus what I want in a notebook is low power consumption, good screen, easy access to the smaller number of things I need to DO with my laptop.

Plus of course new toy syndrome :)

I actually think Apple should be stressing this market a lot more than they are.

question (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334808)

Is slashdot acting weird today, or is that just me?

Re:question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334912)

It's just you.

404 File Not Found (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334811)

404 File Not Found
The requested URL (articles/02/09/26/0058238.shtml?tid=107) was not found.

If you feel like it, mail the url, and where ya came from to

The times... (2)

los furtive (232491) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334812)

...they are a changing.

I did enjoy this part of the article: (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334813)

As an example, look at this very standard series of commands, used to install Perl 5.8 on my system:

[macosx:~] cd /usr/local/
[macosx:~] sudo mkdir src
[macosx:~] curl -O
[macosx:~] tar zxvf perl-5.8.0.tar.gz
[macosx:~] cd perl-5.8.0
[macosx:~] make distclean
[macosx:~] make
[macosx:~] make test
[macosx:~] sudo make install

You couldn't tell this was Mac OS X if I hadn't told you, right?

Hell no! I mean, just because the name of the damn OS is in the prompt; I would NEVER tell it was Mac OS X!

Re:I did enjoy this part of the article: (2, Funny)

lburdet (552112) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334893)

prompts can be changed...
back in the days where a funny prompt on the professor's overhead was funny, his was somehow changed to "{student X}deserves an A+$" on his telnet(i think) acct.
good thing the prof laughed :-)

Re:I did enjoy this part of the article: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334916)

I know, I know, but you must admit; it was rather funny considering the prompt set at the time :P.

Go for it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334826)

I'm a linux guy who made the switch. I love it. You can get a good discount if you are a student or work for the goverment. And a superdrive + Toast 5 = Ability to copy Porno DVDs (under 4.7GB)!

Asthetics (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334832)

Even if you hate Macs with a vengence, at least give them credit for looking look.

All who want to attack the TiPBook's looks should go look at themself in the mirror.

Re:Asthetics (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334843)

*looking good

Re:Asthetics (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334889)

being gay has ALWAYS been about 'looking good'...and sucking semen out of strange mens' anuses.

Mac Laptops (3, Interesting)

Naikrovek (667) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334844)

I thought about this for a while, but the keyboards that come on Mac laptops leave A LOT to be desired. shallow keys, half-height arrow keys, etc.

And don't get me started on Trackpads v. Trackpoints. If Apple had Trackpoints (the little nipple between G, B, and H on your keyboard) I think i could overlook the keyboard.

And one button mice... We all know that is not enough.

Sure, I can get an external keyboard & mouse, and I would if i were *given* a powerbook, but to me, that's just like having a Mac desktop, because it would never leave my desk. But, if were to *buy* a Mac, it would have to be a desktop, where I can replace the peripherals with something I like.

The point: they should try to make a few more people happy. I would have switched long ago if they had a full size laptop keyboard (every key full size) and a three button trackpoint pointer. I want a Mac in a Thinkpad case.

my two cents on the "Switch" campaign.

Re:Mac Laptops (1)

Duds (100634) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334878)

I don't like the nipples any more than the pads but.

Is this keyboard prob confined to the powerbooks or is the i-book just as bad/worse?

That could be a show stopper.

Re:Mac Laptops (4, Funny)

override11 (516715) | more than 12 years ago | (#4335005)

Dont like nipples...

Cmon man, everybody likes nipples...

Re:Mac Laptops (5, Interesting)

MoNickels (1700) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334904)

The point: they should try to make a few more people happy. I would have switched long ago if they had a full size laptop keyboard (every key full size) and a three button trackpoint pointer.

You mean they should make *you* happy.

It's a different computer: use it differently. As a long time trackpad user, you'd have to squeeze my testicles in a vise to get me to use a laptop with the orange knob right in the middle of the keyboard. I've tried it, repeatedly, and it sucks. It's an infuriatingly useless device. I onced worked in an office where Thinkpads with such idiotic cursor-manipulating devices were standard. Everyone there was a Windows user, not converted Mac users, and a majority of users had mice. They couldn't stand the stupid thing.

Same goes for the two- and three-button trackpoint pointers. Again, I've used them, and repeatedly. It almost requires two hands to use! In fact, that's how most people do it: with two hands. What a logistical and tactical waste of effort. But a one-button trackpad, it's a one-handed device. And you can keep your other hand on the keyboard to control-click, which is natural since that hand is often using other modifier keys, as well.

Part of the reason Windows and Unix users have problems with the Mac's one button (and whine incessantly about it, to such a degree that you want to put *their* testicles in a vise), is because they tend to be unused to the click-and-hold action. On a modern Mac, this will get you the exact same action as the right-click menu. What in God's name you need a third button for, besides having another part to break, beats the hell out of me.

Re:Mac Laptops (3, Informative)

Surak (18578) | more than 12 years ago | (#4335008)

What in God's name you need a third button for, besides having another part to break, beats the hell out of me.

In a word: Emacs. Emacs on X makes extensive use of the middle mouse button. Also, X-style copy and paste. Especially in an Xterm.

Re:Mac Laptops (2, Informative)

alvieboy (61292) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334917)

I thought about this for a while, but the keyboards that come on Mac laptops leave A LOT to be desired. shallow keys, half-height arrow keys, etc.

Not the only problem - here in Portugal we have lots of difficulties to find Portuguese keyboards for Apple products: usually, you must order them directly from France, and sometimes you just can't find them (hard to find new keyboards for laptops). So, if you want a last-generation Apple here, will for sure come with a non-PT keyboard. .

Re:Mac Laptops: trackpoint, mouse buttons, etc... (1)

turnstyle (588788) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334944)

Yup. My last Mac laptop was a 3400 with a trackpad. Whenever I sat down to do real work, I had to plug in a mouse.

Now I've got a Thinkpad X20 and I absolutely love the trackpoint. I work all day on it, and I never even think about a mouse.

Likewise the 2 buttons, and the 3rd scroll-lock button. News to Apple: it's better.

I'd actually like to switch back to Mac, but the input devices are indeed a hurdle for me.

troll (4, Interesting)

jbolden (176878) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334974)

This issue about 1 button mice comes up every single time. And every single time the people who actually use Macs point out that:

1) Multiple button action is accomplished by using the option and command keys along with the mouse button

2) This interface offers no disadvantages for a laptop over the multi-button mice

3) For desktop units the interface offers no disadvantage; but you can always use your current USB mouse if you don't want to switch

This discussion hasn't happened once or twice it's happened something of a hundred times here. At this point bringing this point up can only be based on one of several things:

1) Naikrovek once to argue that option and command keys do not in fact work.

2) Naikrovek decides that all Mac users have formed a conspiracy to lie about the fact they find this interface of keyboard + button easy to trick PC users. In reality Mac users hate the mouse.

3) Its a troll.

Which is the most likely?

minor correction (1)

Qous qouS (121002) | more than 12 years ago | (#4335007)

Right-click action (when you only have a one-button mouse) is actually accomplished by holding down the control key and clicking.

I have a Mac laptop, and this action is surprisingly easy to get used to. I'd love a right button, but with my hands already next to the keyboard when I'm using the trackpad, it's not hard to stick a pinky on the control key.

Re:Mac Laptops (1)

tgv (254536) | more than 12 years ago | (#4335026)

I've got a slightly older (bronze) laptop and I had a 520 before that, and I can only say that their keyboards are quite good. Better than the Logitech thing on my Linux machine. Perhaps your problem is that some keys have been shifted, but you get accustomed to this rather quickly. Anyway.

But please stop suggesting that the designer of the "track point" does not deserve to be taken to the international courts of human rights in The Hague! This thing is a total and utter disaster! Perhaps I'm overlooking some sexual connotation of the blasted thing, but it costs even experienced users more time to select a certain point on the screen than a blind elephant needs to put a thread in a needle.

i got one (3, Insightful)

sniggly (216454) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334845)

I got a Ti Powerbook g4 with the latest OSX - this is a good version but originally i didnt get teh dev cd with osx, the 10.1 upgrade had to come in the mail to me for some $30 (incl shipping) a few weeks after it was released (without dev tools) - only now with the 10.2 jaguar do I have a gcc compiler shipped by apple.

And even so I run mandrake 8.2 on it much more than I run OSX because all GNU and OS tools on mandrake are free while the Mac programming community seems to make a sport out of adding an aqua interface to a nice free BSD app and charging $29 for it.

Also I have a nice collection of programminng tools on the mandrake ppc that I am familiar with (apache, postgres, php, mysql, kate, vi, emacs...) I really tried to run stull like that on osx but it takes a long time to figure out just how - much more time than I want to spend on it. Even so you might even need to run Xfree for OSX to really get what you want which is overkill on my 400mhz g4 with 256 MB and a kinda slow harddisk.

So if you are a developer used to linux or bsd OSX really is a tough call. You have to wonder why you need it, snazzy osx & aqua like interfaces are aplenty for kde & gnome so that shouldnt be a reason. And you can also spend the money on a nice 19" flatscreen!

I have to say for apple tho that the hardware is great and OSX is very nice compared to windows - if you need an OS for stability. But windows has MSIE 6.0 (osx has 5.5x) - OSX has MS office but OpenOffice isnt really there yet..

Re:i got one (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334866)

"this is a good version but originally i didnt get teh dev cd with osx"

you could have downloaded it

Re:i got one (2)

sniggly (216454) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334891)

thats what I did - after i downloaded mandrake 8.0 ppc so I was sure i could do what I needed to do.

Fortunately i could find a great local mandrake mirror serving some 1.2gb of solid distro while Apple was (is?) more handicapped with its ISO deployment capabilities on the net.

Re:i got one (2)

MoNickels (1700) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334942)

I have a nice collection of programminng tools on the mandrake ppc that I am familiar with (apache, postgres, php, mysql, kate, vi, emacs...) I really tried to run stull like that on osx but it takes a long time to figure out just how - much more time than I want to spend on it.

Sounds like a failure on your part, since I have all of those, except kate, running on by Mac under OS X, and all I did was follow the recipes and directions. Before OS X, I'd never compiled an app before, ever.

But windows has MSIE 6.0 (osx has 5.5x)

So? What's 6.0 got that anyone gives a shit about? And are you using it under Mandrake? No. There are a crapload of browsers out there for OS X: Explorer, Netscape Communicator, Chimera, Mozilla, OmniWeb, Opera, iCab. Try them all. Hell, you can even use Dillo under XDarwin if you want.

Re:i got one (2, Informative)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334987)

Someone should say him Mac IE =! Windows IE. I saw/used Mac IE 4.5 for instance (while Windows version was 5 or 5.5), it even had its OWN DOWNLOAD MANAGER.

I hate IE on Windows part but on Mac it has better standards support etc. Near (if not full) w3c standards compliant. Oh and it also acts like a program, not "god" of System. Sits in its OWN directory, doesn't touch to system.

Even MS admits that their Mac Office XP is better in sort of ways from Windows version.

Geez, MS can trick anyone that easy, I guess thats what they intended to do.

Before ranting on how old,crappy,dinosour versions of MS apps ships to Mac, check and get some reality.

Re:i got one (5, Informative)

The Mutant (167716) | more than 12 years ago | (#4335016)

(apache, postgres, php, mysql, kate, vi, emacs...) I really tried to run stull like that on osx but it takes a long time to figure out just how - much more time than I want to spend on it.

Maybe I'm missng your point, but :
  • Apache - click on 'System Preferences -> Sharing -> Start Personal Web Sharing'. Apache is running a few seconds later. Web pages are dropped in a folder named 'Sites'. Apache is part of the standard 10.2 distro.
  • emacs, vi - open a terminal window and type emacs or vi. Either will be running pretty much immediately, and both are part of the standard 10.2 distro.
  • MySQL - Fink [] not only has MySQL but also a bunch more packages (Postgresql, myodbc, X11 for example) ported over, all set to install with just a click of the mouse (or two or three, but you get the idea).

I'm not sure you've spent enough time trying OS X.

RTFM (5, Interesting)

jbolden (176878) | more than 12 years ago | (#4335029)

The dev CD is always available for download from Apple's website. Since you can mount images directly on a Mac you don't even need to burn the thing to install it.

As for your list:
OSX ships with: apache, mysql, php, vi and emacs so I can't see how those were hard

"fink install postgres" will take care of getting postgres installed and working

and I don't know what kate is.

And yes I agree that Aqua is probably too slow with a 400mhz G4 + 256 megs + slow HD running multiple apps. That's just the "don't run too much of an OS for your hardware". OSX is probably the heaviest OS out there right now because it does way more than the others.

I have the solution! (2, Offtopic)

alienmole (15522) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334846)

Just sell a few shares of VA Software - oh wait...

Re:I have the solution! (0, Offtopic)

Feign Ram (114284) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334855)

Can't hold back the sarcasm , eh - runs in desi blood , I guess ;-)

Re:I have the solution! (2)

alienmole (15522) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334996)

Well, to be honest, there was a thought behind my slavishly unoriginal sarcasm, which is...

I really have no idea about the state of Hemos/Tacos finances. However, if they have an ounce of sense in their bodies, they have a little cash squirreled away. If they want Mac laptops, why not just buy one or two, instead of agonizing over it on /.?

We didn't see ever see the article from Taco entitled "Should I marry Kathleen Fent"? No, we saw "Kathleen Fent, will you marry me?" The decision was already made. I could understand it if they were posting an article saying "Flirting with a trip to space on the russian shuttle", where they have to pony up $20 million. But we're just talking about a Mac here. I mean, I bought one for my g/f for much the same reasons as they're describing, and I didn't have to submit a frickin Ask Slashdot to figure that out.

In short, the only explanation I could come up with was that their net worth is tied up in VA Software paper.

iBook for MBA class (1, Interesting)

icrooks (227741) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334847)


I am seriously considering getting an iBook to start. I need something reliable, light, long life, etc. for MBA classes, in addition, to keeping all my calender and e-mail handy. All I need the laptop for is e-mail, calenday, contacts, MP3, spreadsheets, word processing, web and the iBook fits that perfect. Probably throw in a iPod too.

GNU/MacOS X? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334852)


14.1" and gcc 2.95? (1)

bo-eric (263735) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334854)

Wierd. Most people with a Powerbook G4 have 15" screens - and most people with 10.2 (Jaguar) have gcc 3.1.

Re:14.1" and gcc 2.95? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334884)

Actually, Jaguar ships with 2.95.2 too - it's gcc2 and gcc_select is still there.

Apple couldn't remove gcc2 from system, because there are still uses for it (like 3rd-party binary C++ libraries).

Already (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334856)

I bought one the other day. The one mouse button thing kind of through me off. Other then that I'm in love with it. I used OpenBSD for a long time on the desktop, and Windows XP, but I think I'm looking to build a Power PC now, to replace my desktop(s). I really love OS X. Now all I need is some cool Apple stickers for my car :)

What happend to your revolutionary principles? (1, Insightful)

schlpbch (197942) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334858)

Just remember, that's closed source!

Re:What happend to your revolutionary principles? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334881)

The 'New Toy' principle overrides 'Open Source' remember ?

Re:What happend to your revolutionary principles? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334947)

Give me convience or give me death.

Re:What happend to your revolutionary principles? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334971)

Give me liberty or give me death.

Re:What happend to your revolutionary principles? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334908) 0/projects.html

I would use MacOS X on a laptop too... (1, Redundant)

Captain Pedantic (531610) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334861)

...if I was given a "review unit" with it on.

As it is I'll happily continue with my Thinkpad 600 running Debian, XFce and Rox filer. I bet mine with its PII 266 is more responsive than his, too!

Go for it. (5, Interesting)

matthew.thompson (44814) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334864)

10 months ago I used Linux and Windows at home exclusively but wanted a laptop for taking stuff to work and writing on the train.

None of the Windows laptops cut it with battery life or displays so I looked at the iBook. I plumped for the 600Mhz DVD Rom drive beast. It's since been with me to Singapore - great for watching DVDs, work most days, bed for writing, downstairs infront of the TV for emailing, the kitchen for recipes. (I got the airport card as well - nothing to break off so I don't feel scared using wireless networking while actually moving!)

I use nothing but OS X on the beast (Up the RAM to at least 384Mb) and it's great. Proper terminal window to connect to my personal servers, MS RDP client for configuring Works' Windows 2000 boxes. Internal modem for connecting to other networks, Bluetooth for connecting whilst on the train. Best of all IT JUST WORKS.

I've definately reached the point where I no longer want to have all my machines as play toys - the iBook is a workhorse and just keeps on slogging. It'd without a doubt the best PC I've bought so far.

My Name's Matthew Thompson and I'm a system administrator and freelance journalist.

Re:Go for it. (0, Flamebait)

Xouba (456926) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334997)

I use nothing but OS X on the beast (Up the RAM to at least 384Mb)

Ehm ... you don't mean that it *needs* 384MB, right?

<rant>I'm beginning to think that everyone is thinking that OS X is great just because of the everyone-says-it syndrome: there are a few people that keep on repeating that "OS X is cool" again and again, and the feeble minded just swallow it. You know, brainwashing. Yeah, it may be cool, but all this switch fever is something that I barely understand.</rant>

Please tell me I'm not the only one.. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334874)

who read that as felching with OS X. Now that would would truly sum up the spirit of the mac community!

sellouts (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334877)

Michael and Taco are both sellouts. This proves it. Go ahead and dump linux, it sucks, has always sucked, and will always suck turds out the ass of a sick pig.
Slashdot => "sellouts" & "no_credibility"

Sorry, I don't see the appeal (4, Insightful)

mocm (141920) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334880)

I have had a tiBook for 1.5 years now and I have tried using OSX from time to time. I can't say that I find it very appealing, but I am probably to used to Linux (I use KDE, Gnome and simpler WMs on several computers). I just couldn't get OSX to feel right. Every configuration (other than those meant to be done by "normal" users) is a pain (well NIS, NFS and automount is).E.g. I could not convice the network setup that my domain has no .xxx at the end and WiFi didn't work at first, either.
Even with the rootless X11 it's not much better and switching to X11 only doesn't make sense. In my view the only advantage over Linux is the DVD player, which is not Linux fault.
As nice as OSX may be for Mac users and newbies as a long time Linux user I have to say it is just to proprietary and constricting for me to use.

Re:Sorry, I don't see the appeal (1)

davidstrauss (544062) | more than 12 years ago | (#4335034)

Windows 2000 Server feels the same way about the domain. Try *.local as the extension.

What's the point of this? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334882)

Why is slashdot turning into an Apple cheerleading site? I know MacOS is super-cool (and I've been impressed with what I've seen of it), but do we need to be updated on every last piece of gossip about who's considering using oh ess ecks this week? Moreover, do we need the slashdot editors begging for freebies on the front pages? Come on, people, show a little dignity.

Re:What's the point of this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334899)

My guess would be that with the unavoidable hardware security issues for x86 (palladium, TCPA, whatever), it's pretty obvious that linux will not be around much longer as a *coff* viable desktop *coff*. Slashdot is just trying to adapt and ride the wave of the next anti-windows trend. And more power to 'em, I say. :)

Re:What's the point of this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334984)

Uhh, you're not very smart, are you?

How exactly is MacOS X going to be able to play next-gen DVDs, open Word documents, read email from Outlook users, etc, if Apple doesn't implement Palladium?

Apple answers to their shareholders. They are going to implement this.

Apple's DVD player has DRM (region restrictions, section restrictions, etc). What makes you think they won't introduce more DRM? The sticker that comes with the iPod says "Don't steal music". Why doesn't it say "Don't commit copyright infringement"? That's right, Apple doesn't care about your fair use rights. They care about their bottom line, and they will implement Palladium and DRM goodies.

duh (1)

gralem (45862) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334887)

I hate to say this here, but I gave up linux about 2 years ago in favor of OSX Public Beta. I had slight problems until 10.0 came out--but since then it's been 100% OSX. Java rocks--BSD rocks. It's the best multimedia system out there (iTunes/iMovie rock for basic functionality).

Today, Jaguar is a no-brainer.


Re:duh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334952)

No-brainer..yeah, that pretty much describes everyone I've ever met using a Mac.

Ugh, where to begin... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334888)

The kid's wireless card worked flawlessly while Linux on my IBM Thinkpad insisted there was not enough signal where I was sitting.

Obviously the reception is influenced by the operating system. It couldn't possibly have something to do with the WLAN card he was using.

Max OS X Jaguar has the Gnu C compiler, gcc 2.95-2

Jaguar has GCC 3.1. It even says so on Apple's web site.

It even played my DVD movies out of the box, something I have never managed to do satisfactorily on my Linux notebooks.

Good look trying to skip commercials or watch DVDs from multiple regions.

PowerBook w/ Mac OS X (1)

Penguin Follower (576525) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334897)

Actually, I am a Linux on x86 user currently, but I am actively seeking out either an iBook or a PowerBook with the specs necessary to run OS X on eBay at this very moment. Funny that this news blurb happened to show up. ;) My primary use for the laptop will be to travel with me to college daily. Anyone else doing the same (switching that is...)

yep, but I was urged to wait a while (1, Interesting)

evil superstar (449136) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334902)

Just this week I have decided to wait a while, since a friend told me he got rumours that the line-up would be refreshed and there might be a price shift in a month or so...

but yeah, been using MacOS X at the office, and it takes a while to get used to it coming from linux, but it's definitely nice.

And of course you can make your laptop dual bootable :-)

Make the change!!! (2, Interesting)

RealTC (536594) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334911)

Well, several months ago I switched over from using Linux/Windows to OSX under an iBook. If it wasnt for OSX then there would've been no way the change would have happened. The best thing about OSX is that:-

1) You have a BSD backend...command line baby!!!!
2) Its very stable....very very stable!
3) its not windows......important part!
4) Has a totally cool desktop.
5) The iBook doesnt heat up as much as the Intel/AMD laptops and is efficient with battery power.

Sure, you have just one mouse button, but mostly I use an external wheel mouse or trackball anyway with 2 buttons.

And no, this isnt an ad for Apple, but after getting tired of XP crashing it was a good persuasion(typo?) to move to OSX.

Why all this moaning about Linux GUIs? (4, Insightful)

g4dget (579145) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334919)

I don't get it--why do people keep moaning about Linux GUIs? I use an OS X machine daily. It has a pretty interface. It also has a few really slick applications and accessories, foremost, perhaps, its 802.11b support.

And it's not like that OS X has figured out how to eliminate user confusion, as you will find out when you try to talk computer novices through installations or system configuration over the phone. Yes, even OS X has lots of GUI tarpits: the printer system, AirPort configuration, and network configuration are pretty bad.

But when it comes down to it, I just don't see much difference between Gnome, KDE, OS X, and Windows. All of them let you move files around in roughly the same way, all of them associate files with applications, all of them have lots of dialog boxes with buttons and little rectangles to type into, etc. And all of them run roughly comparable sets of applications. What more do you want?

I switched last december... (1)

Corporate Troll (537873) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334924)

...and I haven't looked back. I admit I only have an entry-level Mac, namely an iBook 600Mhz with 384Meg RAM. Does everything I want, I use it to ssh to my server, has X on it, AppleWorks for when I really want to do some office stuff, "Mail" for mail, Chimera. I can go on and on.
I have a nice PC (well, I think it is nice P-III 800Mhz 786Meg RAM and a 15" flatscreen), but honestly I only turn it on from time to time. Most of the time it's collecting dust. It's become practically useless the day I fully switched to the iBook.
The selling point for me was OS X. First because I'm sick and tired with Windows, and that Linux just didn't cut it for me though I like the *nix command line way better than cmd.exe But having a desktop on Linux that both pleases me and it lightweight enough is just not possible with today's distributions. Actually the only thing I want in Linux is the GNOME and KDE *libraries* and WindowMaker as a desktop. WindowMaker because I like it, the libraries because so many programns need them. But is there a distrib that gives you that? nooo....

OS X gives me a nice unified desktop system (that I like), and the power of *nix under the hood. Honestly, this is exactly what I wanted... And the hardware is sweet, even if a G3 only performs about like a P-II.

Re:I switched last december... (1)

thunderbee (92099) | more than 12 years ago | (#4335002)

The beauty of it is that you can build your own. I did just that: WindowMaker (and I consider moving to Openbox) and some libs (not as many as you want). Runs perfectly, fast even on a small machine, has OpenOffice, Mozilla, and about anything you need. It is my only office tool (ie I don't have a windows somewhere to browse slashdot and bash M$) for tech (SSH, whatever) and admin (OpenOffice, fax,...) tasks.
It's built on a redhat base, but my newer systems are built on top of debian (I also have a sparc on my desk, running debian and openbox).
Give it a try someday ;)

Not a microkernel (4, Informative)

selkirk (175431) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334925)

Well, you see, Mac OS X is a UNIX. Under the surface it runs a 4.4 BSD kernel derived from FreeBSD 3.2. That, in turn, runs on top of a Mach 3.0 message-passing microkernel. Microkernels were all the rage in OS research about 10-15 years ago, but are now generally considered to be underperforming for most purposes.
This is misleading. The Mach kernel in OS X is not a pure microkernel.
Kernel Programming Mach Overview []

The grin hides the truth (1, Troll)

nagora (177841) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334929)

And anyone from Apple that can get me a good price on super TiBooks? *grin*

The truth is that unless someone gets me a "good price" on the hardware there's no chance that I'll get OSX. The interface is quite nice, although that's not enough on its own, and the hardware is great but then a 1930's Bentley is a really nice car but I ain't got the cash.

How much Intel can 500 quid buy? What fraction of an Apple would the same money buy?


Re:The grin hides the truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334979)

Actually, Apple's hardware is competitively priced.

That said, here are some Web sites for finding deals:

Out of reach. (1)

Soulslayer (21435) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334933)

I have been interested in OS X since its release and what little time I have managed to spend using it makes me interested in obtaining a system running it. However the G3 Notebooks are pathetically slow and the G4 Titaniums, while looking gorgeous, are exceedingly expensive.

If there was something beyond the nice display and good OS to justify the price I might be swayed, but right now the cost to value ratio is way off when compared to what you get for similar money in an Athlon or Pentium notebook.

I want to use OS X, I just don't want to go in debt over the hardware.

uh. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334934)

"nothing beats pine."?

he's clearly delusional. pine's for pussies.

Re:uh. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334965)

pine's for opposed to 'telnet $FOO 25'?
j00 r s0 3l33+!!!

mutt (-1)

flaw1 (572429) | more than 12 years ago | (#4335035)

mutt is the One True Mail User Agent.

I Sometimes Wish I had Bought an OS X Laptop (2)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334937)

Last January (that is Jan 2002, if memory serves) I bought a HP Pavilion laptop (yes, the one with the USB IRQ issues). I sometimes wish I had bought an Apple laptop/notebook instead. They have GREAT battery life, a beautiful OS (with hack appeal) and guaranteed to be free of incompatibilities, because Apple is in full control of both the hardware and the OS.
OTOH, I am fairly happy with the laptop I have. It runs Linux just fine, and after applying the usepirq patch every piece of hardware works (except the winmodem, I never bothered to try and get that to work because I don't need it). It is fast and has an excellent display. The only thing that drives me up the wall is the heat it generates. I have a stack of CDs under it to give it enough fresh air - putting it on my desk results in overheating and forced shutdown. I've heard that PowerPC CPUs run cool, so I think that they would really be a better choice. And it saves one from paying M$ tax.

apt-get, rpm? Portage! (2)

richie2000 (159732) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334940)

The part in the article about OS X lacking a package management system got me thinking. Since portage (flirting with Gentoo [] and it's babealicious) is more or less ports-based, supports recompiles (almost demands them, actually) and is all around probably pretty portable, why not get it running on OS X? From where I'm standing, it would help Apple users with system management and it would help Gentoo users with faster/better ports and ebuilds.

Just an idea. Discuss amongst yourselves.

Re:apt-get, rpm? Portage! - Fink! (5, Informative)

shiva600 (323459) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334970)

You should check out fink [] .

Excerpt form the start page:
"The Fink project wants to bring the full world of Unix Open Source software to Darwin and Mac OS X. We modify Unix software so that it compiles and runs on Mac OS X ("port" it) and make it available for download as a coherent distribution. Fink uses Debian tools like dpkg and apt-get to provide powerful binary package management. You can choose whether you want to download precompiled binary packages or build everything from source."

I guess that`s pretty much what you are thinking about.

Fink, Fink, Fink, Fink: A Package Manager (5, Informative)

MoNickels (1700) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334973)

How many times does this have to be pointed out for OS X newbies? There is an open-source, community-driven package manager for the Unix underpinnings of OS X: It's called Fink [] . It's a port of the Debian tools, including apt. It currently has 1452 packages at various levels of stability, including many of the major applications required for development. It works very, very well, from a command line or via happy little Aqua app called Fink Commander [] . If you do use Fink, use the CVS tree: the maintainers are very conservative about adding apps to the stable tree, so most of the interesting action is in unstable.

Re:apt-get, rpm? Portage! (2)

iomud (241310) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334989)

Fink [] . It's basically apt for os x, bringing most if not all the tools you commonly use on Linux to os x. I can literally use apt-get, which made my transition to os x that much easier as I previously used debian at home.

Go for it... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334941)

Unless you're worried about having an out of date OS & having to pay full wack for any upgrades. Oh, and having obsolete hardware when apple switch to intel processors...

Yours, 1 VERY pissed off apple iMac owner (OS 10.1!).

apt-get replacement (2, Informative)

fungai (133594) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334945)

from the article: "Something you will miss when coming from a Linux distribution are tools like apt-get or rpm to easily get and install packages and resolve dependencies. "

well, i most certainly, definitley don't miss rpm, but apt-get for the mac is called fink []

Princing, pricing, pricing (3)

Ubi_NL (313657) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334949)

I'd switch to OSX today if it ran on my hardware.
But, looking at laptop prices, the Macs aren't that much more expensive than Dell. However, looking at the specs you do get a lot less MHz for the same money. But are those figures really comparable (like...erm..comparing Apples to Oranges..whahaherm)??. Seriously; can anyone comment on the price/performance for Apple laptops vs (Dell,Compaq,Sony}?

flirting with macos (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334951)

hey, baby! wanna come home with me and look at my processes?

Love to - my eternal request... (2)

mccalli (323026) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334954)

Every time this comes up, I post my request. I've posted to Apple, to Intuit, on the enwsgroups...

Please Intuit - please make a UK-version of Quicken for OS X. Please. Please...

There's a Mac OS X version of Quicken. There's a Windows version Quicken for the UK. Surely it can't be too hard to transfer the config from one across to the other? Can it?

Without Quicken, I have to stay put. I know I could emulate, but that's not really switching away is it? A shame, because I would snap up a Mac or two otherwise (one iMac, one portable).


I wish i knew someone... (0, Offtopic)

n3k5 (606163) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334956)

I wish i knew someone who bought an OS X box recently so I could have a story posted on Slashdot...

I wish i could afford one (1)

Chalex (71702) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334957)

Yes, OS X is nice. Yes, i'd like to switch to using a Powerbook. However, for a poor college student like me, it's simply not an option. Mac hardware is just too expensive when compared to x86 stuff. With the price of a 1600+ XP at $50 now, you can build a top-of-the-line desktop for under $500. I'd need at least $2k for a Powerbook. :( Apple does have discounts for students, but it's only like $200.

Second impressions... (5, Informative)

g4dget (579145) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334961)

I think as Moshe continues to use it, he will either turn into a dedicated Mac zealot, or he will discover that OS X isn't quite the smooth integration of slick GUI and UNIX that he imagines.

For example, he may think he was editing /etc/hosts, but reality is somewhat different. He may copy files with "cp" and discover that some important bits didn't make it. Cocoa looks really nice and descriptive (and I really like Objective-C's named arguments and object model), but it also has its dark sides, for example in the areas of resource management, error handling, and type safety. He'll also discover that there are two different kinds of path names that don't quite mesh and three different sets of APIs, no single one of which gives him complete access to the machine. Carbon and Cocoa applications take different key bindings and handle text differently. A "ps" and some graphics benchmarks will show him that Aqua really has a very hefty footprint and isn't all that speedy. He'll also discover that the Apple file systems (HFS+, UFS) are not all that great compared to what he can get on Linux (ext3, ReiserFS, XFS, ...).

Don't get me wrong: I think it's great that Apple is using a UNIX base, and I think they have done a great job with migrating from OS 9 to OS X. There are some really great programs on that platform. And I think there are quite a number of things Linux would do very well to copy from OS X. But the suggestion that OS X is the heavenly integration of UNIX and GUI that the world has strikes me as not realistic.

How does one flirt with an OS? (1)

dave_mcmillen (250780) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334964)

"Hey baby, nice backend . . . Is that BSD?"

"Wanna show me your kernel?"

[C'mon, geeks of the world, there must be dozens more ... just don't try anything like this in an actual bar.]

Re:How does one flirt with an OS? (1)

that_goatse_guy (611306) | more than 12 years ago | (#4335021)

*groan* I'm sure there must be dozens more; but that doesn't mean we should recite them. ;)

I've been thinking the same thing (1)

spilgnod (528134) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334966)

In fact, I'm trying to sell my desktop G4 and Linux boxes in order to offset the cost of a midrange titanium laptop.

They are really sweet machines.

Chicken! why no t Build a laptop! (1)

linuxislandsucks (461335) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334969)

ah why not build a can;t be that hard for you Taco..

Besides we need new interesting content here.. woudl be a good set of articles for us Linux/Unix folks with adm joining the drm army..

Sooo many... (2, Funny)

alvieboy (61292) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334978)

[macosx:~] cd /usr/local/
[macosx:~] sudo mkdir src
[macosx:~] curl -O
[macosx:~] tar zxvf perl-5.8.0.tar.gz
[macosx:~] cd perl-5.8.0
[macosx:~] make distclean
[macosx:~] make
[macosx:~] make test
[macosx:~] sudo make install

# apt-get install perl

Easier, hmm?


SWITCH.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4334982)

My name is cmdrTaco,
I run a site called slashdot,
and we like linux and all,
Microsoft sux,
Apple has pretty eye candy,
and it runs linux (knowing that it doesn't),
so I switched to Mac.

Re:SWITCH.... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4335010)

My name is cmdrTaco []
I run a leanding linux news site. []
linux for x86 is getting killed by palladium
So I switched to Mac []

yeah me! (1)

mydigitalself (472203) | more than 12 years ago | (#4334985)

i've been mentioning it to a lot of the developers here as i'm really keen to get a mac notebook. they all look at me funny until i remind them that its just "pretty unix" with full office support etc...

then the price tag comes up...

so maybe somebody could answer a question regarding relative performance. i've got a T23 IBM 1GHZ with 512MB of RAM - sort of like this [] puppy over here. it goes, fast. after using acers, dells and compaqs - if i'm going x86, there's no going back from these thinkpads!

so my question is, what would give me the same feeling of performance? would an iBook suffice or should i fork out the dough and go the powerbook g4 route?

HOw can he confuse Objective C with C++ (0)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 12 years ago | (#4335000)

The example he gave of coding for cocoa was objective C. Surely someone with his experience wouldn't make the mistake of saying it was C++???? A trivial point I know but he he makes such an obvious and blatant mistake there what else does he get wrong in this and other articles which people take as gospel because he's considered a "guru"?

Linux desktop, Windows for games, and an ibook (1)

RavenDuck (22763) | more than 12 years ago | (#4335001)

I'm one of those people who believes that Linux on the desktop can work (for some of us at least, I'm not going to make my mum use it), and have been using Debian as my desktop for a few years now pretty much exclusively.

I've got an oldish Windows XP box for playing games (Morrowind stole my life!), but it doesn't get booted all that often. It sits on a KVM with the linux box.

However, when I was recently in the market for a laptop, I went straight for an ibook. It's a cool looking, compact, and moderately powerful PC. However, it wouldn't have been an option without OS X.

I'm writing a PhD thesis (in Criminology), and I spend my days in emacs and LaTeX. Emacs 21 rocks on OS X (well, except for the whole one mouse button not working with flyspell), and BibDesk [] is the best free (as in speech) BibTeX reference manager I have ever seen. LaTeX works beautifully, and with fink [] I have pretty much the same Unix goodness I love about Debian (and it works almost as well as real Debian apt!).

Of course, I'd like better virtual workspace management ( [] doesn't really do it for me), but on the whole, it's easy to use (for someone who has never used a mac in his life), it looks great, and it is rock solid. Sure, it's not cheep, and it's not free (as in speech), but it's still cool.

Doctor StrangeWatson... Or How I Stopped... (1)

Levendis47 (90899) | more than 12 years ago | (#4335013)

Worrying and Learned to Love The MacBSD X.2

My company had an extra Silver Tower PPC 800mhz kicking around and we had a mail server crisis (our mail server's primary and backup lines both went down)... So, one of our sys admins and I (I'm primarily a J2EE/Web Developer, but hey, I like vegamite too...) grabbed the PPC machine and carted it over to one of our office locations that hadn't been hosed by Verizon's crappy last mile. We had MacOS X setup with a mailserver and apache running SquirrelMail (something of a porting fiasco, but not bad) inside of an 2 hours. Sans for having to build PHP from binaries, it was a smooth and, dare-I-say, *NIX-like process.

I've since played with what we now call MacBSD X.2 for hosting full open-source web server stacks. It's fasts... It's wicked stable... It's aweful pretty to look at... and best of all, it doesn't make me feel like I have to sacrifice the command/filesystem architecture as a compromise to having a pretty UI... errmmm, ccccougggh-XP...

To say the least, all the anxiety I had over MacOS 7 and 8 being big turds has been vanquished in MacBSD... My fiance and I are planning on picking up an iBook and iMac-17" respectively after the holidays (thanks to /. for the great thread on when the best time to by Apple-wares is)...

I seriously hope Jobs doesn't get too nepoleonic and actually considers the Intel architecture for Apple hardware as well as porting MacBSD X.x over to such an architecture. Intel is getting a bad rap for being bed-buddies with Microsloth. And while I love the idea of broad-pipelining on paper, 4.7Ghz vs. 1Ghz is still a huge difference... esp. when you consider the advantages of 4x/8x AGP and the throughput of a DDR400 memory pathway... drool...

So, Levendis47 sez, "Stop Worrying and Learn to Love the MacBSD X.2", you'll feel good about it in the morning...


James Gosling uses Mac OS X .... (1)

surajrai (61661) | more than 12 years ago | (#4335015)

I was at Java One conference at Yokohama, Japan today and noticed that James Gosling was using Mac OS X.

I don't know about you but if somebody like James Gosling is using OS X then Apple must be doing something right.


I ran OS X on my TiBook.. (1, Troll)

windex (92715) | more than 12 years ago | (#4335020)

And, eventually, I installed Linux on the machine.

Reason one: I'm not paying $130 for an OS update when it's (at least the useful parts) entirely based on user contributions.

Reason two: Getting ordinary software packages to run under Mac OS X takes a lot of time, even for a seasoned developer.

Reason three: Mac Linux distributions are pretty fast these days. The CPU's are well supported and in my experience Linux is faster on the machine because there's no graphics overhead other than the kernel framebuffer.

If I had it to do all over, I'd of just bought a cheaper PC notebook and installed Linux on it. Mac OS X wasn't worth dealing with Apple.

current vpn support is crippled (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4335022)

Lacks IPSec support. Current VPN client isn't very configurable. Support for auto-configuration proxy scripts is flakey at best.

But, yes it a stable platform and GD that video screen is just beautiful.

Once the VPN stuff comes around, then its a contender.

Not on an ibook! (1, Informative)

supabeast! (84658) | more than 12 years ago | (#4335032)

Do NOT run OS X on an ibook. ibook G3 CPUs are not fast enough to run OS X at a usable speed when doing anything that shows off a lot of 2D stuff (A few days ago I wrote a simple C++ program that finds prime numbers and displays them in real-time, and the terminal updates were using almost as many CPU cycles as the number generator was.). Java is also very slow on the G3 ibooks. Other ibook issues include:

- DVD/CD-Rom flakiness on OS X (The DVD/CD drive doesn't always recognize a CD after the disc has been in a while.
- Power management problems. OS X does not always wake up after the ibook has been closed/opened.
- CPU heat. The G3 CPUs in ibooks put out enough heat to be very uncomfortable when in one's lap.

The author is interesting... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4335040)

This is my favorite part (my emphasis added in bold):

As an example, look at this very standard series of commands, used to install Perl 5.8 on my system:

[macosx:~] cd /usr/local/
[macosx:~] sudo mkdir src
[macosx:~] curl -O
[macosx:~] tar zxvf perl-5.8.0.tar.gz
[macosx:~] cd perl-5.8.0
[macosx:~] make distclean
[macosx:~] make
[macosx:~] make test
[macosx:~] sudo make install

You couldn't tell this was Mac OS X if I hadn't told you, right?

Not at all...
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