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More on JSF Laser System

michael posted about 12 years ago | from the huh-huh-fire-huh-huh dept.

Technology 422

An anonymous reader writes "Seems Lockheed Martin has won a contract to equip future versions of the Joint Strike Fighter with a 100-kW laser. Housed in a dome within the aircraft, the laser's turret would emerge for firing [sound familiar?], and the laser itself is spec'ed to achieve airborne and ground kills at a distance of more than six miles. The problem? According to this Aviation Week article, Lockheed Martin has to figure out how to dissipate 900 kilowatts of heat. Maybe the Finnish airforce could value-add to the OEM model." We mentioned this earlier.

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422 comments

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yum... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4347880)

laser weapons, fun for the whole family!
good and good for you.

Those Fins... (0)

fonixmunkee (163874) | about 12 years ago | (#4347882)

Yah gotta love 'em!

Digital Logic Exam... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4347883)

... really hurt. I hope I did decently.

fp (-1, Offtopic)

hot glue gun (610685) | about 12 years ago | (#4347884)

by hot glue gun.

the end

Popcorn anyone? (3, Insightful)

Wireless Joe (604314) | about 12 years ago | (#4347888)

Can I get mine with extra butter and popped from 6 miles away, please?

new business plan... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4347890)

1) First post!
2) ???
3) PROFIT!!

First Real Genius Post! (-1, Redundant)

egg troll (515396) | about 12 years ago | (#4347891)

<Insert witty joke here comparing this to the film Real Genius>

Re:First Real Genius Post! (2)

Gregg M (2076) | about 12 years ago | (#4347930)

Can you hammer a six inch spike through a board with your penis?

Damn ..... wrong joke.

but the really funny part... (2)

Preposterous Coward (211739) | about 12 years ago | (#4348039)

...is not the question as much as the answer: not right now ;-)

Sucks to be you. (0, Offtopic)

RatBastard (949) | about 12 years ago | (#4348007)

Looks like someone skunked you, pal.

sounds more like (5, Interesting)

graveyhead (210996) | about 12 years ago | (#4347893)

the plot of Real Genius [imdb.com] than a star trek episode...

Re:sounds more like (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4347925)

The crossbow project...

"Now all we need to do is build it!"

Re:sounds more like (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4347950)

I immediately thought of Real Genuis, too. I must be a true genius.

Maybe... (0, Redundant)

mrthx (550643) | about 12 years ago | (#4347894)

Val Kilmer needs to step up to the challenge.

First "Real Genius" Post! (1, Offtopic)

avdi (66548) | about 12 years ago | (#4347896)

Now all they need is a 2-ton bag of popcorn...

Re:First "Real Genius" Post! (1, Offtopic)

antis0c (133550) | about 12 years ago | (#4347913)

Yep, Attack and Humanitarian Aid rolled up into one.

Michael steps out (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4347898)

Hello. My name is Michael. You might know me as the censor at a Geek news site where we pretend to offer news that matters. Or perhaps you remember me as the guy who hijacked an anti-censorship website. Whatever.

Now is your chance to really know me. I'm going to let you in on my personal life, and the secret of how Jamie, Rob, Jeff, and I all "came" together.

I remember that autumn day so well. It was in our dorm room at Hope College, in Holland, Michigan. Jamie stood there by the bathroom sink, totally naked and shaving his face. He didn't recoil when I went into the bathroom which we also shared with Rob and Jeff--the guys next door.

Jamie and I had been roommates for almost three months now and gotten used to seeing each other strip down, dress, and even "hard".

"Hey, Michael" he said.

I had gotten the chance to look Jamie over a few times. But for some reason that evening I just stood there looking at his scraggly unkempt hair, his bare back, his flabby back muscles flowing down into the lumpy mounds of cellulite which composed his saggy buttocks and thick thighs.

Despite his flab, the sexy swastika tattoo on Jamie's right butt cheek gave him an air of hunky manliness.

"Oh I'm sorry, Jamie" I said without him saying anything despite the fact I had been standing there looking at him.

"I was just ..." he turned and smiled through the shaving cream. "it's OK ... I look at you too, Michael" he said.

I didn't know what to say then. I just moved next to him at the sink and stripped off my shirt to wash.

"Got a hot night tonight, Michael?" he asked.

"Naw just thought I'd go for a swim and pizza later. How 'bout you, Jamie?"

"You keep swimming, Michael, and that hot ass of yours will be the talk of the dorm" he said as he patted my butt. He left his hand there and stroked one ass-cheek a bit.

"You keep doing that and you won't be going anywhere, Jamie" I said half joking. My cock had already began to turn my boxer shorts into a small tent.

He didn't move his hand at all. In fact his fingers moved under the boxers and he stroked bare skin.

Jamie said, "Shit, Michael, I'm getting you hard".

"Yea you get it too hard and you'll have to find a way to get it down again" I said spreading the shaving cream on my face.

His fingers moved between my ass-cheeks and stroked. It felt good ... and then he suddenly stopped.

"Can't now ... maybe when I get back. Will you still be up then, Mikey?"

His hand had moved to my tented crotch and he gently felt my boner when he asked.

"Not if you keep doing that, Jamie"

We joked around like that often of course. But that evening his attention was more then the usual goosing or ass grabbing.

I swam hard laps so my effort and the water would make my cock shrink. But my head was full of the memories of his petting as well as his naked body.

I knew that after my pizza and maybe a beer, I'd be in my bed jacking off as many times as I could before he got back to the room.

I was mid-way through my second go round when the door opened. He looked at me and smiled.

"I hoped you'd be waiting, Michael" he said as he stripped off his shirt and jeans. We didn't speak. Jamie moved to my bed and pulled my covers off.

Jamie pushed my hands over my head and to the bed pipe. I held them as he lifted my legs and curled my body over so his fingers, lips and tongue could take total control of my body.

I closed my eyes and swooned as the sensations I had only fantasized about made me shiver and shake. Jamie's fingers stroked the lips of my ass then moved inside to find my prostate and stroked that bringing me to the point of orgasm. The sperm splattered on my face, chest, and stomach.

But he wasn't through and his cock moved into my ass before it could recover and close tight after the orgasm. It hurt and made me beg him to stop. "Shut up Michael. You're my bitch", growled Jamie.

Jamie ignored my pleas as he moved on top and pounded down into me, sliding his thick cock against the walls of my guts ... and turned me slowly into his bitch. My begging for him to stop became moans and pleas for him to fuck me harder.

I had lost control to his will. He fucked me, turned me over and fucked me some more. Jamie brought me to my hands and knees and fucked me even more, his cock didn't want to stop ... and I didn't want him to stop!

I felt the hands on me as the two guys next door--Rob and Jeff--had moved from the bathroom door where they were watching and wanting to join us. He pulled out long enough to allow Rob and Jeff each take their turns.

I was on my back with my legs spread and curled to let each of them move inside. Rob's fingers tortured my nipples, while Jeff abused my cock and balls. My lips encircled their cocks, cocks which wanted to be there.

Jeff, Rob, and Jamie kept using me again and again. Eventually I collapsed in exhausted ecstasy. Somehow I slept, and awoke midday the next day.

Jamie was asleep and our two neighbors--Rob and Jeff--were gone. My ass was sore, but deep inside me I felt a calm peace that I hadn't felt in a very long long time, not since the weekend where as a frosh I was introduced to male on male sex by Timothy, our "dorm daddy". That was the last time I could remember such peace.

Suddenly there was the noise of Jamie jumping from his bed. "You ready, Mikey?" he asked. I turned to see he had gotten out of bed and his cock was rock hard. "We decided to let you rest awhile", Jamie purred. My roommate smiled and then went to the bathroom door. He went inside and returned with the Rob and Jeff. They too still had erections, rock solid erections.

"What the fuh ...", I mumbled to myself.

"It's called Viagra, Michael," said Jamie, "and you are our Viagra bitch". Jeff and Rob stood at attention, casually stroking each others cock. They were like soldiers polishing Viagra hardened gun barrels before battle. They were preparing to jump my bones.

I didn't move away. I wanted to see if it was true what they said about Viagra, and I wanted to find out if it was as wonderful as it was the night before.

All three moved to my bed and resumed to use me again and again until finally I was covered in their sperm. The man-smell of Rob, Jeff, and Jamie, mingled with my own sticky musk. Their cocks, ever hard, kept fucking me until my own body had shot three loads of cum.

It took hours but at the end I was as exhausted, calm, peaceful and satisfied as I had been the night before.

My nickname is now "VB" and you know what that stands for. Several of the guys on our dorm floor knew and when others asked, more found out. Yes, I was, and still am, Michael, the Viagra Bitch.

Thats a lot of heat! (2)

warpSpeed (67927) | about 12 years ago | (#4347901)

900Kw of heat, and only a 100Kw laser? Wow, not to effcient is it?

I would bet that they could rig up some sort of Athelon style heat sink, the air flow over it at Mach 1 should be able to take care of the heat. That seems the be how much air flow is required in my Dual Athelon system here.

Re:Thats a lot of heat! (5, Informative)

spike hay (534165) | about 12 years ago | (#4347918)

900Kw of heat, and only a 100Kw laser? Wow, not to effcient is it?

Very efficient for a laser. Most lasers get less than 1%.

Re:Thats a lot of heat! (1)

xmnemonic (603000) | about 12 years ago | (#4348010)

A laser weapons system mounted inside an aircraft probably has a very different heat "profile" than your dual Athlon computer. In the article, they mention using cooling coils. Perhaps you should read it.

Re:Thats a lot of heat! (2)

Waffle Iron (339739) | about 12 years ago | (#4348012)

900Kw of heat, and only a 100Kw laser? Wow, not to effcient is it?

It's more efficient than a the single-digit percentage efficiency of a standard incandescent light bulb.

Re:Thats a lot of heat! (1)

403Forbidden (610018) | about 12 years ago | (#4348027)

Lockheed Martin has to figure out how to dissipate 900 kilowatts of heat. Sounds like they need a few Pelters :)

Re:Thats a lot of heat! (2)

brooks_talley (86840) | about 12 years ago | (#4348046)

Intentionally radiating 900Kw of heat into the air is *not* a good strategy for a stealth aircraft.

Cheers
-b

Which suggests the obvious solution... (3, Funny)

devphil (51341) | about 12 years ago | (#4348056)

I would bet that they could rig up some sort of Athelon style heat sink, the air flow over it at Mach 1 should be able to take care of the heat. That seems the be how much air flow is required in my Dual Athelon system here.

They need a case mod for the JSF. I suggest one of the water-cooled systems; a second non-laser-firing plane can fly alongside with the radiator. Only a few hundred meters of tubing for the water would be needed to connect the two.

Alternatively, mount a gigantic fishtank on top of the aircraft.

I don't remember any of the other weird case mods that have been posted here, for which I'm sure all of you are thankful. :-)

Uplift saga (2)

bravehamster (44836) | about 12 years ago | (#4347906)

Anyone remember the Uplift Saga by David Brin? In the first book, can't recall the name, they were flying a spaceship through the upper parts of the sun, and they were using a laser to dissipate heat. So....was David Brin talking out of his ass, or is there really a way to put the heat generated into the beam?

Re:Uplift saga (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4347942)

I always thought the refrigerant laser on the sundiver would be a violation of the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Re:Uplift saga (2, Informative)

Door-opening Fascist (534466) | about 12 years ago | (#4348032)

Anyone remember the Uplift Saga by David Brin? In the first book, can't recall the name, they were flying a spaceship through the upper parts of the sun, and they were using a laser to dissipate heat. So....was David Brin talking out of his ass, or is there really a way to put the heat generated into the beam?

I know lasers are often used to lower the temperature of small numbers of atoms in order to observe quantum effects, among other things. This is not the same as dissiptating heat, mind you. Heat is a measure of radiation, whereas temperature is a measure of molecular motion. I would imagine that Brin got his vocabulary mixed up.

dude, this is a Joint Strike Operation... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4347908)

Friday night, time to spray a bunch of raid on my DURP and get so Fahahahahahaked up!

Cooling via the fuel tank? (1)

dchamp (89216) | about 12 years ago | (#4347909)

From the article:

"To dissipate the heat, cooling loops will be employed to take heat from the laser system and transfer it into the aircraft's fuel tank, where it can be burned away."

I'm no "nuclear genius" but that doesn't sound like the safest proposition to me. I wouldn't want to try dissapating 900kw of heat into my car's gas tank... but, best of luck to you.

-dc

Re:Cooling via the fuel tank? (2)

Sylver Dragon (445237) | about 12 years ago | (#4347917)

I'm no "nuclear genius" but that doesn't sound like the safest proposition to me. I wouldn't want to try dissapating 900kw of heat into my car's gas tank... but, best of luck to you.

I would imagine that the fuel is stored in a sealed tank, with no oxygen in it. Making it much safer. Sure jet fuel burns like kerosene, but like kerosene, it needs oxygen to burn. So, put it in a sealed environment, with no air, and you can heat it up without risk of combustion.

Re:Cooling via the fuel tank? (2, Informative)

xmnemonic (603000) | about 12 years ago | (#4347994)

Yes this is true. Modern aircraft carry inert gas supplies or have Onboard Inert Gas Generation Systems (OBIGGS) which fill the empty space in the tank with nitrogen. It's considered an essential feature.

unlikely (2)

Preposterous Coward (211739) | about 12 years ago | (#4348031)

OK, I can't speak definitively for fighter aircraft, but in the light aircraft that I fly, the fuel tanks are most definitely not sealed. If the fuel tanks were sealed, as you burned fuel, you'd be creating a vacuum in the tank that would make it increasingly difficult to feed fuel to the engine. The fuel tanks vent to the outside both to keep them pressurized and to allow for overflow due to thermal expansion.

By the way, jet fuel doesn't just burn "like" kerosene: Jet A is kerosene. (Though it's my understanding that certain military aircraft use a different fuel mixture than standard transport aircraft; and light aircraft generally use something like 100LL avgas, which is 100-octane low-lead fuel.)

Re:unlikely (2)

Sylver Dragon (445237) | about 12 years ago | (#4348053)

Hmm, didn't know that about light aircraft. How does the vent system prevent spillage during manuvering? Also, wouldn't that be a bit of danger in a Fighter craft? I mean, 1 good bullet could ignite a fuel tank, especially if it is a tracer round.

As for the burning "like" kerosene, I know, I was just making a bit of a joke out of it. Sorry, guess I failed.

Re:Cooling via the fuel tank? (2)

Anthony Boyd (242971) | about 12 years ago | (#4348091)

I wouldn't want to try dissapating 900kw of heat into my car's gas tank... but, best of luck to you.
I would imagine that the fuel is stored in a sealed tank, with no oxygen in it. Making it much safer.

How much more likely is the craft to explode if it is shot up? Would one shot that penetrates the tank be a decisive victory in battle? I understand that current military aircraft can withstand quite a beating and still make it back to base. Are these gas-tank-heat-sinks a weapon that can be used against the pilot?

Re:Cooling via the fuel tank? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4347922)

Yea, well the multi-mach jet engine probably heats up the fuel tank quite a bit more than the laser would.

Re:Cooling via the fuel tank? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4347963)

Roger tower...

Err... one more shot and we will self distruct.
Are you sure you want us to pursue?

Re:Cooling via the fuel tank? (1)

pVoid (607584) | about 12 years ago | (#4347982)

Probably the idea is to transfer the heat onto some material that can hold a lot of heat ... hence a liquid as opposed to air.

They might be 'injecting' this heat into the fuel right before it gets sent off to the jet engines, where it burns off right away...

Re:Cooling via the fuel tank? (4, Informative)

sunking2 (521698) | about 12 years ago | (#4347990)

Actually, the F22 and probably at least some other modern fighters use bellows tanks in it's fel tanks to cool engine oil. Basically you pump hot oil from the engine into the tanks which are surrounded by thousands of gallons of fuel in order to cool it down.

Along the same lines it is very common for automobiles to have their fuel pumps inside the fuel tank for the same reason. If you live in a hot area there is a pretty good chance that people who run their cars frequently near empty go through more fuel pumps than those who don't.

Re:Cooling via the fuel tank? (1)

Sj0 (472011) | about 12 years ago | (#4348021)

Perhaps they're trying a pogue style catalytic cracking system to increase fuel efficiency?

hehehe.

Re:Cooling via the fuel tank? (0, Troll)

Sj0 (472011) | about 12 years ago | (#4348105)

Fucking mod.
overrated my hairy ass.

Very Nice if it works (2)

Sylver Dragon (445237) | about 12 years ago | (#4347911)

This could be a hell of a weapon system, if they can get it to work right. Also, I wonder what the time period is for the 100KW to be transfered to the target? If this is a pulsed laser, that'd be great, but if its a continious laser, I wonder how well it'll really work against a manuvering aircraft. Still, 5 miles up and destroying ground based vehilces would be a nice way to do things.

Re:Very Nice if it works (4, Informative)

tc (93768) | about 12 years ago | (#4347945)

Watts is a measure of power, i.e. energy per unit time. So, to ask how long it takes to deliver 100KW is nonsensical. Did you perhaps mean, how long can this thing fire for continuously, i.e. how much energy can I fire at the target in a burst?

Re:Very Nice if it works (2)

Sylver Dragon (445237) | about 12 years ago | (#4347987)

Watts is a measure of power, i.e. energy per unit time.

Oops, good point, been out of school too long, I'm used to hearing laser power in terms of Joules, which necessates the type of question I asked. Sorry, didn't engage brain fully.

Time to buy some really good sunglasses (2, Insightful)

Zrech (578331) | about 12 years ago | (#4347915)

I guess they forgot about the "splash" dammage effet of a "laser". If this device were to hit any sort of reflective material, the potential to permenently blind large ammounts of people is great.

Re:Time to buy some really good sunglasses (2)

Sylver Dragon (445237) | about 12 years ago | (#4347927)

guess they forgot about the "splash" dammage effet of a "laser". If this device were to hit any sort of reflective material, the potential to permenently blind large ammounts of people is great.

Hey, even better. Not only do you take the tank out, you blind the infantry that is near it!

Re:Time to buy some really good sunglasses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4347965)

You must be that infantry...

Re:Time to buy some really good sunglasses (3, Informative)

afidel (530433) | about 12 years ago | (#4347966)

intentionally blinding people with lasers is against the Geneva convention.

Re:Time to buy some really good sunglasses (2)

Sylver Dragon (445237) | about 12 years ago | (#4347996)

intentionally blinding people with lasers is against the Geneva convention.

So is torture, and of course, we haven't seen that in war since the Geneva convention.

Re:Time to buy some really good sunglasses (5, Funny)

Waffle Iron (339739) | about 12 years ago | (#4348099)

intentionally blinding people with lasers is against the Geneva convention.

I can see it now:

GI: Sarge! There's a dozen or more enemy troops on the other side of that ridge! I'm going to call for air support: They'll blind those bastards with a laser! We can go in and round 'em up.

Sarge: No can do, soldier. That's against the Geneva convention. You tell your flyboy buddy to drop a Daisy Cutter on those a-holes. I'm afraid the only humane way to handle this situation is to incinerate those poor bastards to a crispy crunch.

GI:Yes, Sir!

Re:Time to buy some really good sunglasses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4347968)

It doesn't matter, because this is a weapon. If it kills/hurts the evil friends of the evil people you are targetting, who cares ?

They should rather use a plasma gun, it consumes a lot more energy, but the visual effect is nicer by night ;)

Re:Time to buy some really good sunglasses (0, Flamebait)

spoonist (32012) | about 12 years ago | (#4347984)

... the potential to permenently blind large ammounts of people is great.

Hey dude, it's a WEAPON. That means it's SUPPOSED to cause damage... so blinding some enemy troops isn't such a bad thing.

Re:Time to buy some really good sunglasses (3, Funny)

Sylver Dragon (445237) | about 12 years ago | (#4348013)

Hey dude, it's a WEAPON. That means it's SUPPOSED to cause damage... so blinding some enemy troops isn't such a bad thing.

Shh, don't burst his reality. He's probably also one of those people that want to outlaw weapons in war because they are too effective at killing people. Let him go about his dreams of Nerf warfare.

Re:Time to buy some really good sunglasses (1)

GigsVT (208848) | about 12 years ago | (#4348074)

If this device were to hit any sort of reflective material, the potential to permenently blind large ammounts of people is great.

Probably not. Assume the surface is 95% reflective, that means it is absorbing 15% of the energy. 5kw in a tight beam would still blast a hole almost instantaneously, probably fast enough to not reflect much energy.

Of course, I know nothing about this area of science, so I may be wrong, but this seems reasonable.

Re:Time to buy some really good sunglasses (1)

GigsVT (208848) | about 12 years ago | (#4348090)

. Assume the surface is 95% reflective, that means it is absorbing 15% of the energy

Uhhh, yeah... Note to self, smoke less crack. You get what I meant hopefully.

We need a laser in orbit! qjkx (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4347916)

That way anything anywhere on the planet can be destroyed.

Time to get your Neurohelmets... (1)

muertos (570792) | about 12 years ago | (#4347924)

Didn't I see an article for a LumberMech a while back? Guess what I'm thinking...

Well... (1)

SILIZIUMM (241333) | about 12 years ago | (#4347934)

Well, when they will figure out, please urge them to call AMD and point out their solution. AMD will like it for sure.

Dissipating the heat into the fuel... (3, Interesting)

richard-parker (260076) | about 12 years ago | (#4347936)


To dissipate the heat, cooling loops will be employed to take heat from the laser system and transfer it into the aircraft's fuel tank, where it can be burned away.

...
"If you think about the amount of fuel onboard a jet aircraft, if you put all that heat in the fuel, you might raise it by a degree, something on that order," he said.
Unless, of course, the aircraft has expended 99% of its fuel - in which case the temperature of the remaining 1% of the fuel would raise by 100 degrees. Ouch.

Re:Dissipating the heat into the fuel... (2)

sunking2 (521698) | about 12 years ago | (#4347999)

In which case you're gonna crash because you've run out of fuel anyway. It is few and far between that an aircraft returns to base with under 15% fuel, let alone enter combat with so little.

Re:Dissipating the heat into the fuel... (2)

Anthony Boyd (242971) | about 12 years ago | (#4348041)

It is few and far between that an aircraft returns to base with under 15% fuel, let alone enter combat with so little.

Umm. Isn't combat one of the very few places where you cannot predict the outcome of any engagement with any degree of reliability?

Re:Dissipating the heat into the fuel... (1)

GigsVT (208848) | about 12 years ago | (#4348054)

Then just have a safety interlock where the laser can't fire if the fuel isn't enough to cool it. If they can scrounge together nearly a megawatt of energy on a fighter jet and design a laser that is over 10% efficient, then I'm sure they thought of that too. This whole discussion seems to be falling prey to Slashdot Naysayer Syndrome (SNS).

Re:Dissipating the heat into the fuel... (2)

brooks_talley (86840) | about 12 years ago | (#4348063)

I'd expect a god-only-knows-how-expensive plane like the JSF will probably include a fuel gauge, and the pilots will probably get some sort of training about when to use/not use the laser.

Cheers
-b

can't fire on an empty tank (1)

eyeN (58743) | about 12 years ago | (#4347941)

i noticed two problems with the cooling strategy:

1) Tom Burris sites the enormous fuel capacity of the fighter as the coolant for the laser, but they are utilizing an area "used largely for fuel storage in the other variants" to house the laser system, so they are reducing the amount of fuel that can be used to dissipate the heat.

2) you couldn't fire the weapon on a low or empty tank without overheating.

- ian ward

Re:can't fire on an empty tank (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4348059)

Fighters would rarely have to fire on the way back or just before landing, and even then you don't land on an empty tank if your mission has gone according to plan. So in something like 95% plus situations our forces would use this thing, it would probably have half full tanks or better.

Still I would feel safer with water cooling. Rig up a jet that purges the superheated steam for additonal thrust. In an emergancy, a spare, short use rocket/jet engine.

Heat (5, Funny)

bytesmythe (58644) | about 12 years ago | (#4347943)

Lockheed Martin has to figure out how to dissipate 900 kilowatts of heat

They can use whatever heatsink comes out for those 4 Ghz Pentiums...

Put the heat to use... (1)

blackbeaktux (525688) | about 12 years ago | (#4347944)

The next-gen JSF would feature a mini-oven and a jacuzzi for the pilot and co-pilot.

Re:Put the heat to use... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4347997)

The next-gen JSF will not have a pilot.

New business plan? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4347949)

1. Make 100-kW laser.
2. ???
3. Profit!!!

A sophisticated way of relating to others? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4347954)


For some people, it is an acceptable way to relate to other people. If you don't like them, just kill them. Preferably from a long way away.

It's profitable, too, because the weapons are secret and therefore the profits can be kept secret.

It's an adult video game. Except that you don't get to play. You, if you are an American taxpayer, only get to pay.

There are a lot of people who would like to kill other people if it is free and they don't have to go to prison. For more about this, see What should be the Response to Violence? [hevanet.com]

Violence tends to cause other violence. Hidden elements of the U.S. government are causing the U.S. to be a target of violence.

Every day in the U.S., it is possible to see American leaders on television calmly discussing the killing of other people. Of course, they have come to believe that they will never be the target.

Great... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4347958)

When do we get the models that fits on sharks?

hmmm... another approach? (2)

llamalicious (448215) | about 12 years ago | (#4347970)

As powerful as a 900Kw laser is, should they mayhap try focusing on making it produce less heat, rather than attempting to simply funnel it away?

I'm sure they already investigated it, but I'd be looking to more applied material sciences to come up with a cooler-by-design laser, rather than cooler-by-dissipation. Less of a power drain that way too.

Not on the plane... (4, Funny)

SaturnTim (445813) | about 12 years ago | (#4347972)


I didn't want it on the aircraft,
I wanted them mounted on the sharks!

All I want are sharks with freakin laser beams on their head!

--Dr. Evil.

Developer reveals: Why FreeBSD is Dying (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4347974)

FreeBSD is dying
The End of FreeBSD

[eds. note: in the following text, former FreeBSD developer Mike Smith gives his reasons for abandoning FreeBSD]

When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project.

Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it.

FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile.

It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics.

So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project.

Discussion

I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly.

From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrips our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished.

There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want.

Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress.

Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers?

Shouts

To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad.

To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals. It's when you get distracted by the politickers that they sideline you. The tireless work that you perform keeping the system clean and building is what provides the platform for the obsessives and the prima donnas to have their moments in the sun. In the end, we need you all; in order to go forwards we must first avoid going backwards.

To the paranoid conspiracy theorists - yes, I work for Apple too. No, my resignation wasn't on Steve's direct orders, or in any way related to work I'm doing, may do, may not do, or indeed what was in the tea I had at lunchtime today. It's about real problems that the project faces, real problems that the project has brought upon itself. You can't escape them by inventing excuses about outside influence, the problem stems from within.

To the politically obsessed - give it a break, if you can. No, the project isn't a lemonade stand anymore, but it's not a world-spanning corporate juggernaut either and some of the more grandiose visions going around are in need of a solid dose of reality. Keep it simple, stupid.

To the grandstanders, the prima donnas, and anyone that thinks that they can hold the project to ransom for their own agenda - give it a break, if you can. When the current core were elected, we took a conscious stand against vigorous sanctions, and some of you have exploited that. A new core is going to have to decide whether to repeat this mistake or get tough. I hope they learn from our errors.

Future

I started work on FreeBSD because it was fun. If I'm going to continue, it has to be fun again. There are things I still feel obligated to do, and with any luck I'll find the time to meet those obligations.

However I don't feel an obligation to get involved in the political mess the project is in right now. I tried, I burnt out. I don't feel that my efforts were worthwhile. So I won't be standing for election, I won't be shouting from the sidelines, and I probably won't vote in the next round of ballots.

You could say I'm packing up my toys. I'm not going home just yet, but I'm not going to play unless you can work out how to make the project somewhere fun to be again.

= Mike

--

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. -- Theodore Roosevelt

It's about time. (1)

antisocial77 (74255) | about 12 years ago | (#4347977)

It's 2002 people. If we don't get laser weaponry and gauss rifles soon, all of my hopes for the future will be crushed.

I wonder.... (5, Funny)

nizo (81281) | about 12 years ago | (#4347980)

if they are gonna put a huge warning sticker on the front of the figher: "Do not stare directly into laser"?

Re:I wonder.... (1)

xmnemonic (603000) | about 12 years ago | (#4348057)

Aircraft with FLIR pods already have high-energy laser warnings.

Re:I wonder.... (1)

xmnemonic (603000) | about 12 years ago | (#4348094)

Er, rather, aircraft with integrated IR-laser pods as well as attachable FLIR pods have laser warnings painted on them.

Re:I wonder.... (2)

Floyd Turbo (84609) | about 12 years ago | (#4348093)

". . . with remaining eye."

Talk about... (1)

pVoid (607584) | about 12 years ago | (#4347993)

a laser you should directly look into.

hah.

where do you get the power from? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4348000)

How in the world do you get a megawatt of available power in an aircraft? Charge banks of capacitors?



Can anyone here shed some light on such a compact yet powerfull system?

what is the problem? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4348006)

Race cars are rated about 700 hp. If they produce 700 hp, then they would be dessipiting about 1400 kW heat (assuming 25% efficiency). So if a tiny car can dessipitate 1400kw, why can't a fighter plane cannot do 900 kw?

Heat Dissipation Experts (1)

GlassHeart (579618) | about 12 years ago | (#4348008)

In other news, The Department of Defense awarded a billion dollar contract to Intel Corporation to work on dissipating the tremendous heat generated by the lasers. "No big deal", said an unnamed engineer close to the Pentium IV project, "it's just a matter of using a bigger fan."

Re:Heat Dissipation Experts (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4348040)

After all the laser is more efficient than our newest processors from Intel....

Can somebody give me an idea... (2)

Anonvmous Coward (589068) | about 12 years ago | (#4348020)

... of how hot this laser could get? I'm sorry, I'm not the guy you can throw kilowatts at and know exactly how powerful (or not so powerful) a laser like that is.

Don't get me wrong, it sounds cool, but I've yet to hear of a vehicle mounted laser that could do much damage other than filling people's houses with popcorn.

Re:Can somebody give me an idea... (1)

xmnemonic (603000) | about 12 years ago | (#4348075)

Well, obviously, if you haven't heard of it, there's no way it could possibly exist.

For those asking why this is being developed (1)

shut_up_man (450725) | about 12 years ago | (#4348023)

I think Trinity said it best... "Dodge this".

superconductors (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4348029)

Perhaps somebody could fill me in on the efficiency of modern laser systems, but it strikes me that they're tackling the *side-effects* of a bad design, as opposed to fixing what's wrong in the first place.

Should they not be instead be aggressively persuing high temperature superconductors (and associated compact cryogenics) as a means to avoid generating this kind of heat in the first place? This should make for a vastly more efficient laser design and permit much greater transfer of the full 900kw input electrical energy to offensive energy output.

Why build a 100kw laser when you might be able to have closer to 800kw with a superconductive coil?

Obligatory Austin Powers Joke... (1)

taernim (557097) | about 12 years ago | (#4348037)

Dr. Evil: "You know, I have one simple request, and that is to have sharks with freakin' laser beams attached to their heads. Now evidently my cycloptic colleague informs me that that can't be done. Can you remind me what I pay you people for? Honestly, throw me a bone here!" ;)

Not the first time fuel has been used to cool (3, Interesting)

xmnemonic (603000) | about 12 years ago | (#4348043)

The legendary SR-71 (high altitude mach 3 spyplane) kept the fuel stored at an extremely low temperature in the tanks (sub zero initially I believe), then pumped it through fuel lines running throughout the aircraft. The fuel would absorb the heat from the various internal components of the plane before arriving at the engines.

Re:Not the first time fuel has been used to cool (2)

Sylver Dragon (445237) | about 12 years ago | (#4348082)

Odd, I seem to recall that the SR-71's fuel tanks also leaked at low temperature. That'd make it a real pain to keep the liquid cooled. Though not outside the realm of posibillity.

and yet it still cant fly (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4348047)

Would anyone care to explain why they are giving out contracts to expand on an aircraft that has YET TO FLY. I have several friends on the project, and the government is STILL using northrups YF22 for the "test bed". Seems kinda premature to give out contracts to improve a design that still doesnt work.

Focusing the beam (3, Informative)

RayBender (525745) | about 12 years ago | (#4348064)

These clowns never mentioned that the "adaptive optics" they want to use to keep the beam focused are very experimental (in this application). I have worked with the stuff, and it is ok for astronomy - but actually focusing a laser in the sort of environment the JSF will be in (low altitude, high-G forces, turbulent flow across the aircraft skin) strikes me as really hard.

I'd say we should wait and see how the ABL performs before getting rid of the trusty ol' AMRAAM.

It might be possible (2)

cr@ckwhore (165454) | about 12 years ago | (#4348069)

Lockheed Martin has to figure out how to dissipate 900 kilowatts of heat

Just a quick proposal here... perhaps it may be easier to dissipate 9,000 hectowatts of heat with current technology. Even better, I think they could probably dig up a cooling fan from a overclockers outlet that'll dissipate 90,000 deciwatts of heat with ease.

Re:It might be possible (2)

cr@ckwhore (165454) | about 12 years ago | (#4348084)

... oops... meant to say 90,000 DECAWATTS ... not to be confused with 1.21 gigawatts.

No! (2)

DarkHelmet (120004) | about 12 years ago | (#4348070)

Housed in a dome within the aircraft, the laser's turret would emerge for firing [sound familiar?]

You ignorant slut! Those are Phase Cannons, which use an entirely different technology than a laser.

Enterprise is NOT Austin Powers. They do not use "LASERs"

That's it! No Xbill for a week, Michael! You must suffer for your non-geekish ways, and suffer you shall!

Star Trek? Huh? (3, Funny)

smoondog (85133) | about 12 years ago | (#4348073)

Housed in a dome within the aircraft, the laser's turret would emerge for firing [sound familiar?]

I find the suggestion of a Trek parallel humorous. Of course a laser turret that emerges to fire is somehow the visionary genius of a Trek writer. But, I guess whale penises do that too. Oh well...

-Sean

STAR TREK!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4348077)

Oh come ON. Anyone with a brain knows this is a rip-off of Real Genius, not Star Dreck V'ger.

"The Crossbow Project--there's no defence like a good offense"

PLEASE Help! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4348087)

I am constipated! Anyone have any home remedies?

spy vs spy (2)

Brigadier (12956) | about 12 years ago | (#4348096)


anyone else have images in there head of a joint strike fighter being sizzled with the black spy (insert terrorist of your choice) in a broken down mig one with a mirror hanging off the tail fin grinning in the for ground.

What's the deal, a MICROSOFT BANNER (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#4348106)

Whats teh deal wit dat microsoft banner on slashdot's main page? hey, i thought we all hated microsoft, or so it seemed!
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