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Microsoft Shuts Down Lik Sang

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the real-life-consequences dept.

Microsoft 814

An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft has taken legal action, shutting down popular import gaming site Lik Sang for distributing X-box mod chips. Lik Sang is a popular import gaming site based out of Hong Kong. The full article (MSNBC) can be found here." Several people have pointed to the same story on news.com.

cancel ×

814 comments

As a general rule (1)

Captain Pedantic (531610) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381192)

Microsoft doesn't shut people down. Therefore, modchips must really, really piss them off.

Re:As a general rule (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4381206)

... but what grounds does microsoft have to do this

I really can't see why modchips should be illegal. They should just void the warranty, and possibly forbit you from getting support.

Re:As a general rule (5, Interesting)

arbitrary nickname (325162) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381265)

Aren't most XBox mod chips basically BIOS replacements? Probably containing significant portions of Microsoft's original XBox BIOS?...

So it'd be a simple case of copyright infringement.

Everything else Lik-Sang sold, including GBA 'backup devices', PSX mods, and perfectly legit consoles, games, and accessories, were probably perfectly legal in most countries. Maybe they made a genuine mistake by stocking the XBox mods - not knowing they may have contained Microsoft's code?

Re:As a general rule (1)

chef_raekwon (411401) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381220)

the fear of linux is growing in the minds of the m$ people......
why else would one use a mod chip?

Re:As a general rule (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4381286)

How about: to play pirated games downloaded off those evil P2P programs out there. You can usually download hacked games within days of their retail release. Microsoft may be willing to take a loss on the XBox units themselves, but they expect to make the money back in game sales. If people buy the units and download pirated copies of the games, MS will lose way too much money.

Re:As a general rule (3, Interesting)

N3WBI3 (595976) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381303)

Ahh so kill em all and let God sort them out? Whats that you want to back up your games, well screw you because little Billy down the street is a theif so you probably are to...

Re:As a general rule (3, Insightful)

Squareball (523165) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381285)

This is insane! I mean, what if Ford started shutting down shops that trick out cars? Would the people stand for that? My rule, if I buy it, it's MINE! I don't give a darn WHAT the EULA says. EULA isn't exactly a strong legal document.

Doubt isn't the opposite of faith; it is an elemen (-1)

varak_mathews (592911) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381194)

Doubt isn't the opposite of faith; it is an element of faith. - Paul Tillich, German theologian and historian # Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. # Try to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads. # Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. # Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. # Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page)

Beowolf cluster (-1, Troll)

ksuMacGyver (562019) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381198)

Now how will I ever finish my XBox beowolf cluster =(

bastards! (1)

carpe_noctem (457178) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381201)

Damn, Lik-Sang was one of the few places on the net where you could actually get really good dreamcast parts and accessories. I was just going to order a dreamcast broadband adapter not more than two days ago from them...good thing I waited to place my order. ;)

Re:bastards! (2, Informative)

arbitrary nickname (325162) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381306)

They were also one of the few sources for Afterburners (GBA backlight kits), and GP32s (Korean handheld games machine with a 66-133Mhz ARM chip, 8Mb RAM, Smartmedia slot, 320x240 screen)

:(

Same shit... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4381203)

Different year.

good (-1)

Trolling Stones (587878) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381219)

Microsoft has every right legal right to attempt to stop any company that purposefully tries to hurt its' revenue stream.

Re:good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4381331)

perhaps you should take a look at microsoft's new home page [goat.sex] and tell me how you feel about them now

Abuse of power? (3, Insightful)

gleffler (540281) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381221)

So MS can shut down an entire company for selling one product they don't like (selling a mod chip is not illegal where Liksang is located) by slapping them with a legal action?

It just goes to show you how abusive MS is, as if you needed any more evidence.

Re:Abuse of power? (0, Troll)

Anonvmous Coward (589068) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381323)

"It just goes to show you how abusive MS is, as if you needed any more evidence."

Oh really? Well I have a question for ya then:

Let's say you made a product intended to sell games. You are forced to sell it at a loss because of market pressure. You need to sell 4 games for every system sold to make your money back. Unfortunately, the likeness of your machine to a PC encourages people to buy the system (costing you money) without serious consideration to buying games as well.

Would you not shut down a place making chips that threaten your profitability? I think you would.

Sorry, but 'abusive' is not the word I'd use. Microsoft did not get big by running around and pissing people off. Most anti-MS zealots don't seem to understand that.

Re:Abuse of power? (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381380)

So basically you're saying

"I'm selling a product at a loss using the assumption people will give me money later on"

Well if the X-Box is such a loss for MS maybe they should leave the console business?

Tom

Re:Abuse of power? (2)

Anonvmous Coward (589068) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381424)

So basically you're saying


"I'm selling a product at a loss using the assumption people will give me money later on"

Well if the X-Box is such a loss for MS maybe they should leave the console business


Following that logic, Sony, Nintendo, and Gillette would not be in business today.

Re:Abuse of power? (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381458)

I haven't seen Nintendo screaming and yelling cuz of flash carts..

In fact the whole reason why I bought my GBA was because I wanted to program it..

Tom

Re:Abuse of power? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4381425)

Why are people crying foul on MS? Sony did THE EXACT SAME THING.

Mod chips are to consoles as P2P is to music.

They all (read: NOT JUST MS) hate the fact that people modify the hardware to play burned games. It doesn't matter if it also lets you play foreign games. 99% of the people are using it for the illegal part, not the legal part.

Re:Abuse of power? (1)

krasni_bor (261801) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381393)

You are forced to sell it at a loss because of market pressure.


Nobody is forcing them to market a game console. It was their own stupid idea.

Re:Abuse of power? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4381398)

you're a moron. anyone that repeats the urban legend "console makers sell the hardware at a loss" are morons. the sega saturn was the only console that initially sold for a loss. this was because after they saw the psx they wanted to add 3d capabilities. try to fucking read and get real information you dickhead.

Re:Abuse of power? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4381421)

Why is the parent marked as a troll but it was correcting the original troll taht claimed all consoles sell at a loss... any true geek knows this is not true.

Re:Abuse of power? (3, Insightful)

Copperhead (187748) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381402)

You are forced to sell it at a loss because of market pressure.

How is anyone "forcing" Microsoft to do anything?

Re:Abuse of power? (2)

DrEldarion (114072) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381446)

I honestly can't believe you're asking that question.

If Microsoft sold the X-Box for $400, do you HONESTLY thing many people would buy it when there are two alternatives?

If they want to sell any of them, they're FORCED to compete with the prices of the other consoles, or nobody will buy one.

-- Dr. Eldarion --

Re:Abuse of power? (1)

gleffler (540281) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381414)

Businesswise, I would probably try/want to do so. The issue is that *legally*, I could not. Mod chips aren't illegal in Hong Kong. MS has no business playing government, abusing their monopoly power, and shutting down L-S with a thousand lawyers because their own business model requires X game purchases. That isn't L-S's problem, and I hope the Chinese government throws out Microsoft's lawsuit as the frivolous piece of junk it is.

Re:Abuse of power? (1)

N3WBI3 (595976) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381437)

Ok so I create a product which is inferior (either in terms of production cost or performance) to other products in the market. So in order to gain market share against the companies who **DO** make money I have to sell at a loss (again not due to the market as others in the market make $$, but do to the fact it cost me too much money to make my product, or its not as good os the competition).

So now I am saying to myself, how do I make money with the expensive piece of crap? Ok I will sign a deal with people who want to make games for my system.

So your question is what would I do? I would not get into a market against superior competition (in this case Nintendo, and Sony) with a product which is so poorly engineered that it cost much more per unit than any one elses, tie myself to slaes of accessories (not even my products) and hope I could use a legal club to keep people from using it any other way than the one which fits my piss poor Buisness plan.

M$ got big on chance, the mistakes of others (Apple), and stolen source code. They have smartly used their opponets weaknesses to maintain and expand their influence.

Re:Abuse of power? (2)

haggar (72771) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381448)

Would you not shut down a place making chips that threaten your profitability? I think you would.

If it's illegal, yes, you can do that. But if that place, and the thing it does, are legal, then no, you can not shut it down just because it threatens your profits! That would be like British Airways asking for EasyJet to shut down. WTF is with you guys? Nobody can guarantee a company that it will make money in the infinite future, no matter how big the company is. But people, expecially in USA, seem to live under the assumption that profit is a God-given right and nobody may ever threaten that.

XBox ruining console industry... (0, Flamebait)

Viewsonic (584922) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381333)

I fortold this before the XBox was even released.. Their crappy console is literally destroying everything good in the industry.

Re:Abuse of power? (1)

drzhivago (310144) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381337)

So when Microsoft shuts down a mod chip supplier, it is abuse, but when Sony or Nintendo do the same, its necessary for their business.

Hmmm....

Re:Abuse of power? (2, Insightful)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381400)

Lik-sang sells more than just mod chips. They sell flash carts for instance which are useful for hobbiest software developers. Coding the GBA is fun and in fact very useful [knowing x86 and ARM based processor architures is a good idea].

Tom

Re:Abuse of power? (2)

Erasmus Darwin (183180) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381406)

"So MS can shut down an entire company for selling one product they don't like (selling a mod chip is not illegal where Liksang is located) by slapping them with a legal action?"

Yes, but Lik-Sang was selling the chip in jurisdictions where it was illegal.

Score one for Tha Man (5, Interesting)

EvilAlien (133134) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381222)

I wonder if this is viewed as a rightful exercising of intellectual property rights or more fodder for anti-trust from the point of view of the Justice Department?

Mod chips, legal issues aside, are one of the "value adds" of the console market. Cracking down on this will drive Microsofts target audience away. Perhaps they've shot themselves in the foot with this.

Re:Score one for Tha Man (3, Insightful)

evilpenguin (18720) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381270)

I have a feeling this would depend on whether you are talking about the Clinton DoJ or the Bush the Younger DoJ. I think the present administration is generally less keen on the Sherman Act than the previous administration.

I think Microsoft's recent increase in agression is a sign that they think so too.

I leave it up to you whether that is a good thing or not.

[Trolling Stones] Whoa, slow down there (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4381272)

drive Microsofts target audience away

Somehow I doubt that Microsoft's target audience is hackers that will only purchase xbox, either out of spite or desire to hack it. Microsoft's target audience, which by the way couldn't care less about mod chips, are gamers who buy the box and lots of games to play, not those who buy the box to not play games.

g to the oatse
c to the izzex

Re:Score one for Tha Man (1)

bberg (516819) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381349)

Mod chips, legal issues aside, are one of the "value adds" of the console market.

I agree with you. Although, in most cases these companies (MS,Sony,Nintendo) take a loss on the consoles and make all of their money on game sales. So I doubt they were thinking of X-box Linux hobbyists when they were suing these guys, they were thinking of people playing copied games.

Re:Score one for Tha Man (5, Interesting)

Anonvmous Coward (589068) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381363)

"Mod chips, legal issues aside, are one of the "value adds" of the console market... Perhaps they've shot themselves in the foot with this."

I'd agree with this comment except MS needs to sell 4 games to make up for the loss they take on each system. If people buy XBOXes but don't buy games for them (i.e. they buy them to install Linux on so they can tap tap tap at it all day), then MS doesn't want their business. They lose.

If MS believed that purchase of an XBOX because it has a mod chip would also mean sales of games, I'm sure they'd go for it. I can certainly understand their concern though, since their lineup of games isn't very strong right now.

In other words, there isn't much value in the games today, but they need to move the games in order for this whole venture to be worthwhile.

Re:Score one for Tha Man (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4381368)

in all honesty, what percentage of Xbox users will mod ther Xbox? probably somewhere around 5%, and that's being generous.

seeing that mod chips in the past have allowed PS1 users to play illegally copied games, i doubt that microsoft will shed a tear over all the business they might lose. they won't make any money off any illegally copied games anyway, so why should they care?

Re:Score one for Tha Man (3, Insightful)

cybrthng (22291) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381416)

Mod chips are not "Value adds".

Value adds are the features inherant to the system as designed. It just so happens that the xbox is a very "value added" system inherantly.

DVD, 5.1 Dolby Digital, Hard Disk, 4 Controllers, Ethernet, Fast Video, 64 megs of ram, HDTV support and many other XBOX features give it VALUE over other competing products and make it wanted and valued by many.

The devaluation is at the software and game level. Is Developer X going to spend 5 million making a game that can be pirated with ease because someone can goto lik-sang.com and get a modchip? NOooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Microsoft is protecting the value of the millions of units sold. Microsoft is protecting the rights of the licensees, distributors, developers and contributors of the xbox.

What is the value of hacking a system to use it for purposes of which it isn't intended or designed for and why can't microsoft legally fight to protect its intended and protected interests?

Even though i modded my dreamcast and could play pirated games, i didn't consider this a value add. For one, i couldn't read the japanese games and often times it wasn't worth the effort and for pirated games they were ripped, chunked, slow and missing features.

After my experimentation with "mod chips" it just wasn't worth it, and personally i see the value in the xbox of being a superb platform to begin with so i'm anxiously waiting to buy the excellent games that will come out.

As for liksang, i'm sure they were doing other things to get shutdown and i'm sure Sony, Sega and Nintendo have always wished they had to balls or $$$$ to do it themselves....

it was the "value add" of the modchips and ripped DC games that ended the life of that console. (and the ps2.. but sega cited the loss of software sales because of rampant piracy and loss of developers because of rampant piracy to be a big factor)

Already slashdotted... (-1, Offtopic)

Mr. Firewall (578517) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381224)

Is this a new record?

I don't care what you guys say (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4381225)

Run Linux and play backups of games that you guys buy... bullshit it is totally just bought for the idea of pirating. So a couple people play backups, who cares, don't rub your CD on sandpaper next time. Also the whole running linux thing is just idiotic... OMG I CAN GET ROOT ON MY XBOX LRORL!!. I am sure this thread will be filled with replys like "there is Micro$oft showing why they have a Monopoly".

Re:I don't care what you guys say (2, Insightful)

N3WBI3 (595976) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381250)

I hate to ell you this AC its none of your damn buisness if I want to run Linux or back up my games (and YES I BACK UP EVERYTHING I OWN!).

Re:I don't care what you guys say (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4381281)

Hey, dipshit, it's called "mainly non-infringing." Just because "MS sez so" is not a valid reason for them to say you can't modify your hardware and them attempting to enforce it by shutting down those who disagree with their team of lawyers. Your opinion on running anything on the Xbox means about as much to me as anyone else's opinion means to you -- nothing. So, what you should bitch about is that MS *IS* finding yet another way to exercise their monopoly power, even in foreign markets. Yay.

Other Asian manufacturers need to be shut down... (0, Offtopic)

qurob (543434) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381226)


The companies who make those crappy CPU fans and cases that don't fit right and just cut your fingers

The people who make those really crappy NICs and video cards

The people who make those little screwdrivers that band or strip on the first thing you take apart with them

The companies that make those $2 keyboards and $1 mice I find at every company who's too cheap to buy decent stuff.

Re:Other Asian manufacturers need to be shut down. (1)

Servo (9177) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381287)

So why don't you take the first step and vote with your dollars? Buy the nice stuff instead of bitching after buying from the crappy ones.

Remember the Xbox upgrade article. (3, Insightful)

N3WBI3 (595976) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381229)

When I said that its about them telling me what to do with my property??

Many people yelled that it was just an upgrande and M$ was not telling me what to do with **MY** hardware. Well bite me, I knew M$ would prove me right.

I dont own an X-box, I dont own a mod chip, but M$ continues with the attitude that you will use this the way we want you to use this, you will not dieveate at all from our buisness plan or we will label you a pirate and sue your sorry butt..

Re:Remember the Xbox upgrade article. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4381387)

Its all about drawing a line. Putting in a mod chip to run foreign games is fine. Just as long as you understand that cracking open the console voids your warranty.

Now placing in a mod chip to let you run burned CDs and such is legal, with the same warranty warning.

Playing burned copies of non-owned games... that is illegal.

So where do they draw the line on what you can do with your property and what you can't?

Hey, I own a gun, its my property. I can shoot what I want!
Hey, I own a car, its my property. I can go where I want, when I want, as fast as I want.

The 'personal property' cry is childish. You need to learn the laws that restrict certain things with 'your property'.

Does/Should this surprise anybody? (1)

goldspider (445116) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381232)

Lik Sang seems to have been setting themselves up for this. Microsoft taking legal action against them should surprise nobody.

Ha Ha (1, Insightful)

superpulpsicle (533373) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381237)

That's alright, the store will just reopen as an underground channel. Westerners have no idea how things operate at that side of the world.

m$ofty (3, Funny)

chef_raekwon (411401) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381241)

its a good thing they are sponsoring the Ad on this page, tho...makes em look good ........

Why? (5, Interesting)

rppp01 (236599) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381254)

I mean, honestly, once I purchase the system, isn't it mine to do with as I please? I know several people who have an X-Box, and have mod'ed the system, dropped in a bigger hdd, and then put their own games on it to increase the performance of the game. Big deal. They own the hardware, and I can't remember having to accept any EULA in order to game on the thing.

Microsoft has to realize, that if they want to prevent people from hacking their systems, or OS or whatever, they need to ensure that it is more secure, instead of doing something as stupid as shutting down a site. I could just go on IRC and find a new place to get some chips, if I wanted. Oh, and those chips, once the hardware is flashed, you can take them out and give them to the next person anyways.

Re:Why? (1)

MrFredBloggs (529276) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381275)

"I mean, honestly, once I purchase the system, isn't it mine to do with as I please?"

Dunno. You license software, so they can put in limiting things which you breach on pain of breach of contract. Can you do the same with hardware? Do you actually buy an Xbox, or just license it?

Not MS... (1, Insightful)

aGeMo (229752) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381255)

I really doubt that it was microsoft which cause lik-sang's website to go down. Being located in China I don't think MS could sic their lawyers on lik-sang and bring their business to a halt. Plus there's a mailing list located on their homepage in order to be notified when the site returns. If MS had shut them down I would think that there would be a blurb about them being shut down not that their servers are down. My 2 cents.

GRR (1)

OpenGLFan (56206) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381256)

This is insane. When hardware CD-mp3 players first came out, I got mine from lik-sang. When my brother wanted one for Christmas, I got his there. Why? Because you couldn't get them anywhere else.

Am I the only one who bought something besides X-Box mods from there? This is insane...

Seems like (2)

Medevo (526922) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381257)

This seems confusing, the xbox has been our since April or so this year, and they are just taking action now?

Besides what has Microsoft got to loose, I mean the people who installed the modchip are using it so they can use Linux on it.

Oh

We would want any friendly competition now would we, even on Microsoft proprietary products.

Medevo

Re:Seems like (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4381357)

Besides what has Microsoft got to loose
lose

People using modchip to RIP games and movies. (2, Informative)

Viewsonic (584922) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381361)

It allows them to dump virtually ANY media they put into the XBox to dump it to it's HD to be used later. You can literally go to the store and rent an XBox game and rip it right to the XBox's HD for either further use, or to be moved over to a server to be burned.

XBox is destroying the console industry.

I am not surprised... (3, Interesting)

suman28 (558822) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381258)

This is very typical of Micro$oft. Here is a link in the story that points to backtracking on their pledge [com.com] not to crack down on mod-chips.

XBox Plus Pack (3, Funny)

Lazarus_Bitmap (593726) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381259)

The real goal: MS produces their own Mod chip that only allows you to install WinXP and with a complementary copy of a new improved MS BOB.

Linux installs are automatically reformated.

Why else would they be looking to hire mod chippers and shut down comptetitors?

$profit!

Cute (2)

yeoua (86835) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381263)

Pretty cute that right under the post, the ad I got was for MS VS .net

Lik Sang = Hong Kong. Hong Kong = China. (5, Interesting)

Saeculorum (547931) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381264)

How is China going to allow this? For some reason, I don't think they're very keen on allowing Microsoft to shut down an enterprise in their jurisdiction, especially with being rather anti-IP.

Re:Lik Sang = Hong Kong. Hong Kong = China. (2)

perlyking (198166) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381341)

Well the article (As far as i can see) doesnt say the company has been shut down - only the web site. Still, it stinks - how far can a corporation actually reach in the world today?

Re:Lik Sang = Hong Kong. Hong Kong = China. (5, Insightful)

Quikah (14419) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381396)

If they want to be in the WTO they will allow it.

Everybody Chant... (-1, Troll)

superpulpsicle (533373) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381273)

XBOX sucks!! M$ sucks!! XBOX sucks!! M$ sucks!!

How are they (1)

0ddity (169788) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381276)

able to do this. Mod chip for consoles are no different than aftermarket parts for cars. Both make the product do more than the designers intended. Example mod chip lets you play movies install software etc. On cars you can install performance enhancing chips or other parts, but you don't see Ford Motor company shutting down Holley for making performance carburetors.

Legal action? Or monetary action? (3, Insightful)

MongooseCN (139203) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381283)

Microsoft attorneys were unavailable to explain the exact nature of the legal action.

Hmmm... Did MS use real legal action to shut them down, even when they were outside the US? Or is there some "monetary action" going on here...

Legality.... (5, Funny)

Tsali (594389) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381288)

haiku

add architecture
without the borg's consent?
enlist the lawyers.

\haiku

Re:Legality.... (2)

SirSlud (67381) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381362)

haiku2

zoning makes me mad
how can i play cool imports
do i have to move?

\haiku2

Re:Legality.... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4381447)

haiku3

Yo, shut the fuck up!
Both of you assholes are gay!
Eat my shit and DIE!

\haiku3

Re:Legality.... (1)

chef_raekwon (411401) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381373)

the architechture that is seen
is not the true architechture, when
m$ enlists the lawyers.

better yet

Aborted Effort Lik
Close all the sites that you have
You are making too much

Not surprising (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4381291)

What will be interesting is how they did and on what grounds.

I was actually waiting to hear that the chips were being stopped at the border by Customs for violating the DMCA ala Serial Cables Illegal Due to DMCA? [slashdot.org] . Apparently MS had something else in mind.

Follow the money (3, Funny)

Iguanaphobic (31670) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381293)

Hmmm... Sony allows mod chips, stock goes up. Microsoft doesn't allow modchips, stock goes down. Go get 'em Microsoft!!

Related Quotes
Quotes delayed 20+ minutes

MICROSOFT CORP MSFT 44.94 -0.67
SONY CORP ADR SNE 40.84 0.18

Re:Follow the money (3, Insightful)

Frank of Earth (126705) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381450)

I seriously doubt that MS shutting down a mod chip store effects their stock in any form.

And screw sony too. Anyone that own's one of their DVD players knows about the infamous C:13 error that you get after about a year of usage. Thousands of consumers have this problem and Sony's only answer is to fix it for a mere 179 bucks.

If you're having the problem, you can try to fix it here [ben-morris.net]

How could anyone not expect this to happen? (1, Insightful)

l33t-gu3lph1t3 (567059) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381295)

The legality of xbox mod chips is ambiguous at best. Perhaps no crimes are committed in the production or installation of them, but consider that most users would utilize their modchip to play copied games or ROMs or Linux, etc. Xbox is sold at a loss.Microsoft needs to sell games for the xbox in order to recoup the losses it incurs for every unit sold.An easily accessible modchip that allows for people to NOT need to buy games for their xbox is a bad thing. Atleast for Microsoft.

Re:How could anyone not expect this to happen? (2, Insightful)

Servo (9177) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381389)

You know.. they could always charge more for the system and not have to make it up in games

Its not my fault they sell the things at a loss. Why should I be forced to be their perfect consumer?

Re:How could anyone not expect this to happen? (1)

krasni_bor (261801) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381426)

Whether or not this is a good thing for the original manufacturer should be totally irrelevant. They sold their hardware, if they lost money on it, tough.

This is exactly like GM shutting down companies that make spare parts for their cars, claiming that because the replacement parts let you go faster, that they are designed to help you break the law by exceeding the speed limit.

I really hope this is overturned. (2)

Inoshiro (71693) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381299)

It's one thing to restrict the sales of bullets and guns to infants, but mod chips aren't exactly something which is a danger to society. What are they used for? Modifications to behaviour of a device.

Unless there was a market force demanding it, they wouldn't sell well enough that people would keep buying them. See also region free DVD players. They're just as popular now as ever, because people want the freedom in their products.

And that doesn't take into account the fact that once I buy something, it's mine. I own it, I do with it as I please. If I want to rip the top off my Xbox, shit in it, and then grow a plant out of that moist, fertile soil -- that's my business. Microsoft has as much business stopping the sales of mod chips as they do teaching mothers how to breastfeed.

Re:I really hope this is overturned. (1)

antitribue (524882) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381433)

Microsoft has as much business stopping the sales of mod chips as they do teaching mothers how to breastfeed.

This just in....
MS is sueing Mothers that breastfeed while not using the latest version of XP
Company representitives site EULA from Windows Critical update hotfix v4.32.34.1.

How complicated are mod-chips? (2)

phorm (591458) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381301)

Perhaps the best fight-back method would be to make the instructions for creating mod-chips more publicly available. In this case, every little shop would eventually proliferate them, and it would become too difficult to chase everyone down.

Of course, in a business sense this is a really bad idea, as it just creates competition. But in a hardware-modders right-to-change-my-property, fight the machine sense it would be nice.

Well, there's always... (5, Informative)

-=OmegaMan=- (151970) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381311)

Easybuy [easybuy2000.com] .

For now, at least.

Note: I have no affiliation with LikSang, or EasyBuy - they're just pretty similar. LikSang had a larger variety of video-game oriented products, but EasyBuy has most of the more popular modchips as well.

This is not a shot at the end user (4, Insightful)

Winterblink (575267) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381312)

I'm already reading stuff on here from users about how MS is now telling them what to do with the property they bought. This is NOT what is happening! You as a user can open up your XBox and hack the hardware as much as you want, hack it so it bypasses whatever security's in there, they won't care. However, take that hack and turn it into a business for yourself by manufacturing hardware and selling it IS what they will move against. In my opinion, they have every right to do that, and it has nothing to do with a monopoly on anything. Just my opinion! Comments?

Re:This is not a shot at the end user (3, Insightful)

SirSlud (67381) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381394)

Yeah .. is it illegal to start a spark plug company and sell spark plugs for cars you don't manufacture yourself?

What right does MS have in preventing people from selling after-market mods .. ? Where did this right come from? When? Why?

I'm just curious... (2)

Cutriss (262920) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381317)

Could NCSX [ncsx.com] be next? They don't sell modchips, but they do sell pre-modded systems for playing multi-region games. Far from hurting Microsoft, yes...but we know how nasty those lawyers get when they haven't had anything to do in a while...

Hate console makers (in a way) (1)

thasmudyan (460603) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381320)

Man, if you buy a freaking console you might think that it actually belongs to you... WRONG! It appears that just like with software you just pay a one-time lease and don't have the right to do anything with it beyond what the producer thinks is ok? (Just like in the software sector it makes no sense to go after the individual, of course, so they just shut down large distributors.) Does this strike anyone else as wrong somehow? Or am I just an evil anti-corporate activist?

Corporate Slogans (5, Funny)

j_kenpo (571930) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381322)

Wow, since I cant get my mod chips off Lik Sang, next time Microsoft asks me "Where do I want to go today?", Ill be sure to say "Hong Kong, so I can buy my mod chip"...

In other news... (5, Funny)

Mr. Firewall (578517) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381324)

... Micro$oft has just announced the availability of the Monopoly game for the Xbox.

Wake-up you dumb-ass American comsumers (0, Flamebait)

JohnnyGTO (102952) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381328)

The chips typically allow a game machine to play legally and illegally copied discs, run unauthorized software and play game discs intended for other geographic regions.

What the hell is "unauthorized software", when did Micro$haft get the right to tell me what LEGAL sw I can run on MY bought and paid for hardware.

Wake-up you dumb-ass American comsumers your about to get the big one up your shaft!

MS was right on this one... (1)

BTWR (540147) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381348)

Lik-Sang had the best stuff! You could buy Gameboy Advance Flash card from them. That allows you to put any NES games or GBA games on your Gameboy. SO illegal, but so fun! MOD chips for every system. It was a nice site with nice goodies, but this stuff was VERY not nice to the game companies!

This is bad for a vast amount of people (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381350)

I used to order flash carts from lik-sang so I could write my own GBA/GBC applications. [re: I'm a software developer].

Now that they don't exist I will have to find another supplier and go through the time to build up trust with them etc...

These time of summary judgements are really shameful. At beast MS should have formed an injunction against them selling Xbox chips. The other stuff [e.g. GBA accessories] are not illegal nor "bad".

Tom

Game Gizmo still has 'em (1)

yerricde (125198) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381462)

I used to order flash carts from lik-sang so I could write my own GBA/GBC applications.

Game Gizmo still has GBA flash carts [gamegizmo.com] . I'm a developer too; unfortunately, my site is down because my ISP seems to have blocked incoming connections to my computer.

Does this mean (1)

the_skywise (189793) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381365)

That I can take legal action and shut Microsoft down for:

-Refusing to discuss known security issues with their software?

-Intentionally breaking working software with each new "upgrade"?

-Scanning my hard drives and collecting data for their own use?

-Refusing to correct known defects in their software until the next version of the product, essentially forcing me to buy 2 products?

-Intentionally disabling features (like crippling format in 2000 and XP to only allow FAT32 to format 32gb drives... anything greater must format NTFS, which is undocumented and unusable by any other OS)

-Disabling the ability for me to play perfectly valid WAV files because my digital files aren't registered in their database as "licensed".

Oh wait, what am I talking about... I'm an individual... I don't have any rights...

Strang... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4381366)

I think its rather strange that MS is going after a foreign distributor before domestic ones. I can think of 3 places off the top of my head right now where I can go and pick up an XBOX Mod Chip, and I'm talking in person, not online.

MS can't stop this, they are wasting their time. Sony tries, and failed, now they hae given up on it. SEGA followed the same path too.

MS thinking they can stop the distrobution of these chips just because they are bigger and scarier than SEGA is stupid. US laws dont touch the people who make these things.

MS overlooked a few more.... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4381369)

Easybuy2000.com, playthegames.com. Guess what Microsoft I wil no longer be buying any Microsoft products it's time to go Apple. Forget you Bill. Lsten if you keep restricting things, you will have nobody who are willing to buy. I can't wait to finally drop my PC in favor of a nice simple Mac. Buh Bye Billy.

Who the Fsck do these people think they are!? (2)

popeydotcom (114724) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381375)

Lik Sang were a good bunch of guys. I got my GC from them well before they came out over here (UK).

That tosser Gates has a lot to answer for. Every day that goes by he's responsible for some crap that goes on in the world. He'll burn in hell for sure.

Except I'm an athiest so I don't believe in all that heaven/hell/god crap. Maybe I'll become a born-again-christian the day the guy drops dead, just so I can believe for a day the bloke gets some retribution.

Probably... (2)

Rayonic (462789) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381403)

They were probably thinking that they'd better get this process started now, if they want to crush Lik-Sang before the Lofgren bill is passed.

How long must we pretend... (0)

mythosaz (572040) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381411)

...how long must we pretend that modchips aren't for helping people play pirated games? The design specifications for the chip reads something like this: (1) When inserted into an XBox, will allow pirated games to be played.

Just cause you're the one guy that uses your [insert illegal item here] to do [insert unusual application here] doesn't make the item good.

Don't like not playing import games and "backups?" Don't buy a friggin XBox you chowderheads. Or if you do insist on opening your wallet and handing money to Microsoft, try not to complain too loudly when they defend their products against piracy.

I disagree with you. Mod down accordingly.

mod chip not only useful for playing pirated games (5, Insightful)

iskander (9699) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381420)

The article insinuates that the justification for sutting down this distributor is contributory infringement, based on the false premise that the device it distributes is unlawful. This is bullsh*t. If the mod chip's only use were the facilitation of software piracy, they might have a legal case; however, as of today (and the article acknowledges this) the mod chip makes running Linux on the Xbox possible, and running Linux is a significant non-infringing use of the mod chip, so the mod chip cannot be deemed illegal on the grounds that it can be used to run pirated games. I will never own an Xbox, much less bother to mod one, but Microsoft's attitude is really ticking me off. Check this out, Bill: you can't tell people what to do with "your" console once you've sold it to them.

So what exactly is the legal issue? (3, Insightful)

Chastitina (253566) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381423)

How convenient: "...Microsoft attorneys were unavailable to explain the exact nature of the legal action."

I'm curious as to what the exact legal basis for this action is.

As use of a product to break a law is to be more of a Federal interest than a corporate unless profits are involved. Which and whose profits are threatened by the mods?

More importantly, how will this carry over to modifying any other consumer hardware? Will it be illegal someday to use after-market parts on your car? (One co-worker of mine who specializes in performance tuning tells me that messing with chipsets in most sports cars invalidates all warrenties.)

An objection to mods on the basis that it allows illegal activity is like objecting to a rifle because it allows illegal activity. Heck, a garbage disposal can be used to hide evidence of misdoing. Why not make them illegal as well?

I think there's a problem when enforcement of laws is used to prevent potential crimes and shut down the producer of potential problem goods. Yea, so a lot of mod chips will be used for piracy: go after the pirates. Others will produce interesting experiments like Linux on xbox. Yes, the manufacturer has to be aware of how the product will be used, but Phillip Morris and Winston-Salem blatently *advertise* product that cause even more expensive long-term health problems.

But that's okay, so long as it doesn't infringe on profits of other conglomerate interests such as m$ or the RIAA.

just goes to show (1)

onShore_Jake (80260) | more than 11 years ago | (#4381452)

If you can't Lik em, shut em down,

I know it's dumb. Sorry...

Wavering (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4381454)

I've been wavering on buying a GameCube or an X-box, I've already got a Dreamcast and PS2, I think Now I will go with the CUBE...... Lik-Sang was one of the most reliable places to get VERY new systems, accessories etc.

Whenever a new system comes out in japan, and people ask in usenet "where can I import one from?" the answer is 99% of the time Lik-Sang.

So THANK YOU! Microsoft, you just made my decision for me. Nintendo Loves it's users....

A.C.
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