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Component MP3/OGG Players?

Cliff posted more than 11 years ago | from the completing-the-home-theater dept.

Hardware 362

RJV asks: "I currently have a rather large digital music collection. It is all in mp3 or ogg format and it is all from CDs that I personally own or have borrowed from friends. I have built a rather cheap mp3 server to store all of the music on and I listen to it on my machines rather easily. However, I'm looking for a better solution for accessing and playing from the archive in my living room. I currently have a linux box that uses the TV as a monitor. I can use it fine to play mp3/ogg files through the home theater, but mostly because I know where the buttons are in xmms. (640x480 isn't the best resolution for xmms). I've looked into multiple other projects, such as Aurian Music Manager and Freevo (the computer also has a TV in card) but have not been satisfied with their performance and/or ease of use, especially when trying to use my Universal Remote Control. So, I've decided that perhaps the best course of action for the living room is to purchase a stand-alone component that will integrate with my current system. What are my options and are there any experiences within the community with these products?"

"I'd like to find a product that has the following features (in order of importance).

  1. Ethernet Connectivity (NFS/SAMBA/something Linux can share out)
  2. Intuitive/Easy-to-Use Interface
  3. IR Remote Control (so I can use my Universal Remote)
  4. Ability to play mp3s and oggs
  5. TV display capabilities (may fall under Intuitive Interface)
  6. Digital Out
  7. CDR capabilities
1-4 are my must-haves. 5-7 would be nice."

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362 comments

Ewww but (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399093)

I heard Microsoft has a media center edition product coming out. I would hope it covers all formats.

http://www.microsoft.com/mediacenter

Nicely put (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399095)


"...or have borrowed from friends."

At least you're honest about it... Truly commendable.

Re:Nicely put (1)

lizzybarham (588992) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399259)

But who cares? apparently. I mean, I uncovered evidence that a co-worker used someone else's credit card to view porn on the net. He also told me he downloads mp3, burns cd's, and sells them to friends. I gave this info to the FBI and wetip.com but they didn't do anything.

x10 + andromeda (2, Interesting)

lo_fye (303245) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399096)

I'd recommend keeping your current setup, getting a mouse-remote from x10, and using a web-based app (1 file!) called Andromeda [turnstyle.com] which dynamically creates playlists of audio & video files and streams them to your default player. It's awesome! This whole setup will cost you like $30 or so, and you'll be able to control your music with a remote :)

Re:x10 + andromeda (2, Insightful)

KILNA (536949) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399184)

A good web interface does not make for a good video / music player interface. Mousing using a remote is cumbersome and error-prone, especially if you have to select a bunch of small checkboxes to play the files you want. I get the impression the asker wants to know if there is something out there with an interface polished specifically for an AV component situation, which usually means navigating with button presses (and often without even a GUI for simple media functions like fast forward and pause).

Re:x10 + andromeda (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399323)

If you can change the web interface there are key shortcuts for most things, and javascript can be written to pick up on presses of all keys...

Hey... wait a minute. Come back here!

Re:x10 + andromeda (1, Offtopic)

turnstyle (588788) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399237)

In the name of full disclosure, the parent to this post is by a longtime Andromeda user, who went on to write this profile for Shift.com [shift.com].

One other tip I'd like to toss into the soup: remote desktop software (VNC, XP's Remote Desktop, pcAnywhere, etc...) can be quite handy for remotely controlling audio on a server. For instance, I keep a spare PC running Andromeda [turnstyle.com] in the corner, wired to my stereo, and I remotely control it with my laptop over wi-fi. One neat thing about that approach is that it'll work with any audio source (such as other web sites, Rhapsody, internet radio, etc).

-Scott

TV as a linux display (1, Informative)

tokki (604363) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399097)

Keep in mind that a TV will loose about 30% of the resolution on a TV. While NTSC is 640x480, the optical effect of interlacing (your computer monitor is non-interlaced, more commonly referred to as as progressive) the TV screen appears to be about 448x336.

Interlacing is why TV looks "flickery" and why it looks horrible when you plug your computer's TV-out into the TV.

Re:TV as a linux display (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399202)

If the TV is loose, you should tighten it -- or learn to spell.

NTSC Resolution is not (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399210)

640x480, moron.

then what is it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399222)

NTSC Resolution is not 640x480

then what is it? It surely has 480 lines (or 486, depending on how to count the vblank lines). How many columns you get depends on several factors.

phrist poast!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399100)

fp!

yippie.

i got the first poast. aren't i cool

word to yo momz and popz. propz to all ded homiez.

boo-yah!! w00t an' all dat schiznidt!!

huggs and kisses.

-ac

The RIAA reads slashdot (-1, Flamebait)

Tim_F (12524) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399101)

By admiting that you have pirated some or all of your music collection, you are looking for trouble. Pirating music is wrong and illegal, boys and girls. Don't be stupid like this article poster.

Re:The RIAA reads slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399118)

It sounds as if you work for the RIAA. who cares if the RIAA reads slashdot. I hope they do then atleast they will understand why they have such bad press.

Re:The RIAA reads slashdot (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399139)

"it is all from CDs that I personally own or have borrowed from friends"

It is legal to borrow music to friends. It is legal to make mix tapes for friends. The only reason why you question its legality (if this wasn't a joke post) after enjoying your freedom for so long is because the RIAA *has* made people everywhere accept the flawed doctrine that digital rights are fundamentally different from analog rights.

I say sharing music with friends is the same, whether you use a tape or a CDR.

Re:The RIAA reads slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399149)

Nope. Not legal to make mix tapes. It is tolerated because it is done on a very small scale usually, but it is not and has never been legal.

Your kindergarten morals are no match for grown-up laws.

Re: DTR (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399162)

Let It Be Known, Mascot, Most Of Us Wish The Destruction of Those Organizations Whom Support The RIAA - Regardless.

Re: DTR (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399168)

Moron.

Most Of Us Wish The Destruction of Those Organizations Whom Support The RIAA

"Who support the RIAA"

The mix tape issue is central. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399225)

Addressing the issue of digital mix tapes
may be the key to finding a long-term
solution to the mess the music industry is
in. In a democracy, citizens will use their
power to make the law conform to their common
sense values. This is why murder is a crime but
adultery isn't (anymore, in most democracies).

Giving your friend a mix tape of your favorite
tunes is considered to be ethical by most people,
and I don't think an RIAA advertizing blitz will
change these social mores. And so a compromise
needs to be found which reflects the consensus view
of the people.

Wrongo, bucko (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399245)

Laws should reflect an enlightened policy of maintaining equitable treatment under the law. The moment you say that musical works are somehow worth less than written works or inventions, then you have stripped musicians of their rights.

In short, it is better to legislate a system that rewards creators than to legislate a system that caters to the basest desires of the masses.

Yes! We have a chilling effect on songwriting! (5, Interesting)

yerricde (125198) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399280)

The moment you say that musical works are somehow worth less than written works or inventions, then you have stripped musicians of their rights.

There's no way to guarantee that the song you just wrote isn't also the song that somebody else just wrote. Such coincidences are exceedingly likely to happen [everything2.com], and defending oneself in court against an allegation of plagiarism is prohibitively expensive for a novice songwriter. Thus, songwriters are already stripped of their rights.

Re:Yes! We have a chilling effect on songwriting! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399321)

So you determine that the entirety of Title 17 is in need of replacement because of one bad judgement?

Or am I reading you wrong? Are you really supporting the concept of plagiarism as a right?

According to US Code, mix tapes are quite legal (5, Informative)

yerricde (125198) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399266)

Not legal to make mix tapes.

Oh really? Let me pull out the letter of the United States Code:

17 USC 107 [cornell.edu]: The fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords ... for purposes such as[1] ... is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include ...

17 USC 1008 [cornell.edu]: No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a ... recording device, or a ... recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings.

[1] 17 USC 101 [cornell.edu]: The terms ''including'' and ''such as'' are illustrative and not limitative.

Re:According to US Code, mix tapes are quite legal (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399316)

By leaving out the key phrases in these laws with ellipses, you have gutted the meanings.

Here's what you left out of the first one:

such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research

These are examples of types of things that are covered. Note that "giving to your friend" is not even close to a fair use right as implied by this law.

1008 clearly covers the hardware, not the audio thereupon. IOW, you can sue for infringement, but not for making devices that make infringement possible.

"Illustrative" means that the items used to illustrate have some sort of significance towards the total meaning of the illustrated topic. The illustrated Fair Use rights all point to things life education and criticism. They do not imply that any copying is fine, and in fact, the entire Section 17 of the U.S. Code is written in order to explain the extent of copyright and the limitations of non-copyright holders. Section 106 [cornell.edu] seems skipped over in your fervor to post an RIAA attack.

Winamp (3, Informative)

Hi_2k (567317) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399106)

Much as i hate to say it, it is probably a good idea to use a computer with windows and winamp 2.x. also, a ati all in wonder video card will allow good tv out so you can properly veiw it. 640*480 will work with this, and some tv's should even get a 800*640 resoultion.

Screw Ethernet.... (2)

Skyshadow (508) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399107)

An 802.11b connection would be even better -- I don't want to run ethernet just for my stereo (everything else in my house uses 802.11)

Article. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399110)

"Rather" used three times.

May I suggest thesaurus.com?

XMMS size (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399111)

I currently have a linux box that uses the TV as a monitor. I can use it fine to play mp3/ogg files through the home theater, but mostly because I know where the buttons are in xmms. (640x480 isn't the best resolution for xmms).

Double the view

SliMP3... (4, Informative)

Zarbuck (590310) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399116)

It is not exactly what you want for but you should give it a look... http://www.slimdevices.com/

Re:SliMP3... (2, Informative)

notanatheist (581086) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399146)

Damn, beat me to it. Really, it is the best way to go. You just need an Ethernet to run in and output to any receiver or powered speakers. Nice bright vacuum flourescent display and includes a Sony universal remote. So there you go. Slimdevices.com. Get yours today. I would if I had $250 laying around. :p

Good luck, but maybe... (2)

Logic Bomb (122875) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399117)

From what I've seen, there aren't any component devices out there that a) do what you want, and b) don't cost an arm and a leg. In the mean time, you might just burn MP3s to cd-rw discs and use a cheapo DVD player. For the money, it's probably the best solution.

The uselessness of MP3/OGG audio systems (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399119)

Really, are you so much into your music that you want to have it at your beck and call any time of the day, but not enough of an audiophile to rip the files into raw WAV format for purer playback?

Save the money you want to spend here and buy a new computer or a Playstation or go on a vacation. Better yet, buy a digital camera and then go on vacation. Lots of nice memories to be had if you save your pennies.

Ethernet Connectivity (NFS/SAMBA/something Linux can share out)
Intuitive/Easy-to-Use Interface
IR Remote Control (so I can use my Universal Remote)
Ability to play mp3s and oggs
TV display capabilities (may fall under Intuitive Interface)
Digital Out
CDR capabilities


I believe that your average Windows box has most of these features, sans the IR Remote. But I guess it's not really a stereo component.

If you are really interested in building something like this yourself, look into Windows CE. You can download the kit for free and start building almost immediately. It's got all those features built into the OS and it's really easy to build and get running. Much easier than the sparsely documented embedded Linux distros.

Does anyone else... (5, Funny)

fungus (37425) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399120)

find it ironic that the "Ability to play mp3s and oggs" comes in fourth position (in order of importance)?

I mean, it is better if the device is user friendly and can't play mp3/ogg than if it isnt user friendly and do everything you want?

Re:Does anyone else... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399209)

maybe his list wasnt in exact order of importance. of coures he needs that. probably just emphasizing the fact the it needs to play ogg too.

Holy shit!?!? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399121)

This is a ask slashdot almost worth reading...

*me waits for satan to call asking about the heater..

this is a hard thing to do... i've tried (2, Informative)

kochsr (144988) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399130)

the turtle beach audiotron satisfies almost everything here but the tv out.

(remote, digital out, mp3, no ogg from what i remember, but ethernet)

the pc is really the way to go (just run xmms at double size w/ the playlist up... it just about takes up the whole screen. i think the audiotron would be a killer piece if it had tv out capabilities

anyway... i haven't heard of anyone who is REALLY happy with ogg when it comes to decoding their songs on things other than PCs. FACE IT, there just aren't many things out there that decode ogg, and mp3 is just easier to use right now. (just use lame at alt-preset-extreme)

Disclaimer: I work for this company. (5, Informative)

seanadams.com (463190) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399131)

Based on your criteria, The SliMP3 Ethernet MP3 player [slimdevices.com] is almost exactly what you're looking for:
  • Very easy to set up and use
  • Open source [sourceforge.net].
  • Excellent software - handles collections of any size (some guys are using this with 400+GB disk arrays).
  • Platform-independent
  • Big, bright, vacuum fluorescent display, instead of a crappy LCD
  • No fans or any moving parts - totally quiet

Check out the full specs [slimdevices.com]...

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company. (2)

crazney (194622) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399150)

or NOT...

Your web page doesnt say anything about OGG support, so I'm guessing its NOT what he's looking for.

craz ;-)

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company. (5, Informative)

seanadams.com (463190) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399205)

Your web page doesnt say anything about OGG support, so I'm guessing its NOT what he's looking for.

Actually, the web site *does* mention ogg, right in the FAQ [slimdevices.com]. We get a lot of requests for this, and we would love to support the format. Here's the full story:

The ogg vorbis codec (even with the new integer implementation) is so CPU intensive that it does not fit into anything smaller than a 75MHZ ARM processor, and even then it's a squeeze. This means that despite all the merits of this format, it is not currently possible for manufacturers of inexpensive playback devices to support the format.

However, what we DO support is transcoding from ogg to high-bit-rate MP3, if your server is fast enough to support it. Yes, we all know that transcoding from one lossy format to another is bad, but 320Kbps MP3 is not going to introduce any significant new artificacts on top of an ogg stream.

That's the best we can do, until somebody comes up with an inepensive way to decode ogg. The feature works on Unix systems that have lame and ogg123 installed, but we don't list it as a supported feature because it doesn't work on Windows (yet).

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399232)

How much more would it cost to pop an SA1100 running at 125MHz in one of those boxes? Wouldn't an ARM720 reach over 75MHz?

What's the limitation?

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company. (5, Informative)

seanadams.com (463190) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399284)

Hard to say exactly, but last I checked, a suitable ARM SOC in our kind of volume would run about $20. That's just for the chip - you also need a few MB of SDRAM and flash, a DAC, and possibly a separate Ethernet chip, depending on which chip you choose. Also you might need a little microcontroller in there to handle things like IR reception and the display interface. This is pretty much the architecture of the Audiotron and some other network players, though I don't think any of them support vorbis. Don't forget, there's a lot of other stuff going on in the CPU on those machines, as they do all the indexing and UI work on the client.

All in all, it works out to a much higher BOM. I tried to keep the electronics as lean as possible, so I could splurge on the display and still offer a generally better product than the "big guys".

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company. (1, Redundant)

aronc (258501) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399294)

The ogg vorbis codec (even with the new integer implementation) is so CPU intensive that it does not fit into anything smaller than a 75MHZ ARM processor, and even then it's a squeeze. This means that despite all the merits of this format, it is not currently possible for manufacturers of inexpensive playback devices to support the format.

Just wondering.. is this before or after the integer only decoder that they released?

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399306)

This would have to be after since most of the processors being discussed in that range don't have floating point units. I don't see anything but a pure integer routine being able to do ogg with that little processor power.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company. (1)

mcspock (252093) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399308)

this is after, the reference for this is the cirrus ep7312 which has a ~ 74mhz arm core.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company. (1)

grahams (5366) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399344)


Just wondering.. is this before or after the integer only decoder that they released?


Did you actually read what you responded to?

And I quote: The ogg vorbis codec (even with the new integer implementation)

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company. (2)

Alien Being (18488) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399299)

"what we DO support is transcoding from ogg to high-bit-rate MP3"

Why not send the decoded ogg over the wire in raw format? It's only about 1.3Mb/sec, just a fraction of a 10BaseT.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company. (2)

seanadams.com (463190) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399315)

Why not send the decoded ogg over the wire in raw format?

We're working with Micronas to get a firmware image for the decoder chip that will let it do this (basically, a "null codec"). No luck yet, though the rest of the system is fast enough to handle the data rate.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company. (2, Interesting)

mcspock (252093) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399331)

You actually can decode ogg on something smaller than a 75mhz arm, it just depends on what else you are doing. The integer version they released runs in

Someone else suggests streaming wav files, but i'm guessing you dont have enough ram to buffer that and on networks with mild congestion you'd get dropouts. Transcoding is really not good for audio quality, for those who consider the above to be a viable option.

As a side note, you mention that it's not possible for manufacturers of inexpensive playback devices to support the format, but that's not correct - iRiver will likely add ogg to their devices (which are mostly cirrus based). Also you dont really have an inexpensive device ($250 is a lot, since you aren't handing out 30% margins to retailers on this).

Review (3, Informative)

T-Kir (597145) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399192)

Toms Hardware [tomshardware.com] did a review [tomshardware.com] a couple of months ago... a good read, I was thinking about getting it, but now I'm redoing my music in OGG so we'll just have to wait until more hardware players get in on the act and support OGG.

Re:Disclaimer: I work for this company. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399340)

$250 for that? Not a chance, there's nothing there that justifies it over competing products.

SliMP3 (1, Informative)

Speare (84249) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399140)

I really like the SliMP3 [slimdevices.com], a simple mp3-decoding terminal. One perl server on any machine in your LAN can serve multiple SliMP3s, either in concert or independently. Any machine in the LAN can command or browse the server, or the standard remote control can command or browse through the unit.

But... they don't do OGG. Hopefully someday.

slimdevices.com (1, Redundant)

chunkwhite86 (593696) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399142)

has a device called SliMP3 which is an ethernet connected MP3 decoder. I have one and it's great for integrating the MP3 collection with the component stereo. Has a Perl based server software I believe. No current Ogg support, but I've heard its in the works.

Disclaimer: I'm not afiliated with slimdevices.com in any way other than being a satisfied customer.

New /. category? (0, Insightful)

dillon_rinker (17944) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399148)

"Ask Slashdot How To Break the Law"

It is all in mp3 or ogg format and it is all from CDs that I personally own or have borrowed from friends (emphasis added)

Ummm...this is illegal, dude. There's no problem borrowing you're friend's CD to listen to it, but making a COPY is a violation of COPYright. If you want your own copy of the music, buy it. If you have a problem with the law, write to your local congress critter. If you want to commit civil disobedience, do so boldly and publicly and be prepared to go to jail. If you want to besmirch the reputation of slashdot, ask everyone to help you violate copyright law.

I can guarantee that the RIAA will be keeping a hard copy of this thread for their files..."See, those Linux geeks talk about 'freedom' but really what they want is to break the law or destroy copyright." And in this case, the facts are on their side.

Friends don't make friends accomplices.

P.S. "Personal use" doesn't mean "me and my friends." It means "me only." Copies for personal use are for use only by you.

Re:New /. category? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399172)

Ummm...this is illegal, dude. There's no problem borrowing you're friend's CD to listen to it, but making a COPY is a violation of COPYright. If you want your own copy of the music, buy it. If you have a problem with the law, write to your local congress critter. If you want to commit civil disobedience, do so boldly and publicly and be prepared to go to jail. If you want to besmirch the reputation of slashdot, ask everyone to help you violate copyright law.

Depends... If the guy's in Canada then this is perfectly legal, and I suspect he is since he made the distinction that he 'borrowed from friends'. As long as you're the one making the copy, it doens't matter who owns it, it's only if someone else makes it for you that it's illegal.

Re:New /. category? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399195)

Well then, I'm definitely in the clear. I made copies when I transferred the bits down from the Internet.

*whew* I was worried that I was breaking copyright law, but your explanation of the law put my mind at ease.

Re:New /. category? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399317)

You're sarcastic, but the words you typed are correct.

Re:New /. category? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399193)

Ok. We all know he is probably lying and has tons of illegal copies. BUT, I think the lie he tried to say is more like "have borrowed from friends" *and are still in my posession and I decided to have them in mp3 because it is more conveniant with me so-hot setup and of course I will delete all mp3 copies when I return the CDs to my friends.*

He could have made that clearer, but what's the point, we all know he is lying about it all anyway :)

Re:New /. category? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399197)

I took it to mean that he borrowed cds from friends, ripped them and then erased the files off his computer when he returned the cd.

Re:New /. category? (3, Informative)

Hektor_Troy (262592) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399204)

That actually depends on where this guy is from. If he's from the US, then you're probably right. If he's from Denmark, he could have gone to the library, hauled cd's home by the truckload, ripped them and he'd still be on the right side of the law, as long as he doesn't let anyone borrow his copies.

Re:New /. category? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399213)

"Fair Use" is what allows you to read a book to your child or borrow a book from the library. "Fair Use" are based on real rights that are granted to real people rather than the priviledge of copyright which only exists at the sufferage and discretion of congress. Fair use means you can listen to music with someone else even though only one person paid for it. As such, making a copy of someone elses music, sharing with a friend, seems a logical and reasonable extension of the principles of fair use and the should be part of the basic right and dignity that all humans should enjoy.

Re:New /. category? (5, Informative)

ddent (166525) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399247)

Under Canadian copyright law, he'd be fine AFAIK. Don't assume everyone lives where you do :).

Re:New /. category? (1)

seann (307009) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399326)

on a side note, he probably doesn't care.
like many of my friends, the difference between their friends cds, and their friends cds on their harddrive is nada, niltch, nill, null, negative, nothing, not-a-thing.

Personal use copies are legal in USA and Canada (1)

yerricde (125198) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399303)

There's no problem borrowing you're friend's CD to listen to it, but making a COPY is a violation of COPYright.

Not always. See my other comment [slashdot.org], which gives a line in 17 USC that authorizes personal use copies. Canada has something even more permissive, with a royalty on blank media to back it up.

Copies for personal use are for use only by you.

Please support this with statutes or case law.

Re:New /. category? (1)

coyul (119455) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399305)

It is all in mp3 or ogg format and it is all from CDs that I personally own or have borrowed from friends (emphasis added)

Ummm...this is illegal, dude. There's no problem borrowing you're friend's CD to listen to it, but making a COPY is a violation of COPYright.

Not in Canada, it isn't. We pay a levy (that goes directly to music publishers) every time we purchase recordable media. In exchange, we can make copies of CDs (and not just CDs we own) for personal use (so I can't, for example, make copies and sell or probably even give them away...)

Some details are here: http://pcbuyersguide.com/hardware/storage/2003_Lev y_FAQ.html [pcbuyersguide.com]. Note particularly question 18 and the answer. Also note that even though the date says 2003, that's only because there's a proposed rate increase. We've been paying this levy since 1998 or so. The link I had for the full text of the Copyright Act, including the amendments from 1998, unfortunately appears to be broken, but if you can find it, the relevant text is in Part VIII: Private Copying.

RioReceiver (3, Informative)

wfaulk (135736) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399173)

Check out the RioReceiver. I don't have one, but there's been a good amount of hacking done on it, and I believe that they've got both Ogg and FLAC support added in addition to the mp3 and wma formats that came with the original software.

Some pertinent links are:
RioPlay [sourceforge.net] - third party software that supports Ogg and FLAC
JReceiver [sourceforge.net] - Java-based audio server for RioReceiver
RioReceiver BBS [comms.net]

Try and Audrey (5, Informative)

davinci27 (260996) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399176)

That's exactly what I['m doing with my audrey. The audrey has a nice touch screen so its easy to use. Mounts nfs/smb shares, has and IR port that you control with a learning remote.

You can buy them for about $100 and with a 32meg CF card update them pretty quickly. Mine has a digital picture frame that runs and pulls random pictures from a share, a full screen mp3/ogg player and a callerid display. It sits beside my sofa so I can get to it easily.

Check out Linux Hacker BBs [linux-hacker.net] and audreyhacking.com [audreyhacking.com]

Re:Try and Audrey (1)

Dave500 (107484) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399283)

On a secondary note - does anybody know where you can source an audrey from the UK?

Tigerdirect will not ship them here due to problems with customs...

Thanks!

Dave.

iPod (1)

TenPin22 (213106) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399179)

I so wish that Apple or Some bright person would add Ogg support to the iPod. The iPod is now supported under Wondows, OS* and Linux and by using Ogg you could fit about twice as much music into the same space by lowering the quality.

I have found that ogg -q 0 (~64Kbit) is as good as 128Kbit Mp3...

Of course the iPod would need discrete math implementation but I believe there is an open one.

Bush/Hitler comparison unfair! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399180)

Days before the close of the recent German parliamentary elections, Herta Daeubler-Gmelin, the Justice Minister serving in Prime Minister Gerhard Schroeder's Social Democrat-led government, compared United States President George Bush to Nazi tyrant Adolf Hitler.

At a speech she gave to a labor union, Ms. Daeubler-Gmelin reportedly said, "Bush wants to distract attention from his domestic problems. That's a popular method. Even Hitler did that."

We find this comparison not only outrageous, but worse, grossly unjust. It is absolutely unconscionable to equate Adolf Hitler to George W. Bush--and no one should be more aware of this than a German government official.

Let's just compare. When Adolf Hitler took office in early 1933, there were over 6 million Germans out of work; in 1935, that number was already well under 3 million, dropping to under 1 million by the end of 1936. German industrial production soared in Hitler's early years; after steep declines from 1930-1932, Hitler's state-interventionist policies, combined with tax incentives, reversed that trend, so that by 1935, German production roared past its previous record peak in 1929.

Under President Bush, the American unemployment rate has rocketed more than 50%, and layoffs continue to mount. The US economy entered a recession within months after Bush's inauguration, reversing a decade of economic boom. Industrial production is falling, and skewed tax breaks that favored the wealthy have opened a gaping deficit, siphoning money away from both capital investment and state spending, both of which are sorely needed. In short, under Bush, America's economy has entered a free-fall.

The differences don't stop there. Hitler built the autobahns, transforming Germany's and the world's transportation. He ushered in an era of exciting new uniforms. Closet homosexuals found gainful employment in the highest rungs of government, and an outlet to vent their frustrations with the world. It is also thanks to Hitler that the briefly fashionable square-shaped mustache will never, ever come into vogue again.

George W. Bush built a single baseball stadium in Arglington, Texas. Amtrak and America's airlines are bankrupt, putting transportation into its worst crisis in history. The days of casual wear are out the door, while America's homosexuals are pouring out of the closet and into the open at record rates, threatening to overwhelm our large cities. Moreover, goatees are still all the rage, in spite of the fact that the gritty poverty the goatee represents is no longer so ironic.

Probably the most fundamental difference between them was that Hitler was a completely self-made man. He came out of poverty and rose to the top with no help from his father. It's a classic rags-to-death-camps story, the stuff legends are made of. Bush, on the other hand, bumbled and boozed his way into riches and power purely through the guiding hand of his father and his father's oil friends, a hand he's only dimly aware of. George Bush Jr. suffers from the sort of genetic degeneration that eventually doomed the aristocrats of Europe, such as the Hapsburgs and the Romanovs; in the Bush family, W clearly has the droopy eyes and blank expression of an inbred son with recessive genes.

There's more. Hitler was the first to unify Europe under a common currency and single foreign policy, inspiring the European Union of today; Bush's unilateralism has split the international coalition, causing annoying arguments among trekkers at youth hostels the world over. Hitler was a captivating speaker, inspiring throngs of Germans to lift their right arms at a 45-degree angle; Bush has difficulty remembering each and every tiny little syllable, causing American intellectuals to curl the right sides of their mouths into what is known as a "sneer."

In war, their differences are even sharper. When no one attacked Germany, Germany would attack and destroy them. When Saudi Arabia attacked the United States and slaughtered 3,000 people in the worst defeat in US history, Bush helped to shuttle the bin Laden family out of America while deferentially referring to the Saudis as "our friends." Hitler introduced the blitzkrieg; Bush introduced the strongly-worded UN resolution. Hitler believed in astrology; Bush believes in Southern Baptism. Hitler liked to plan invasions; Bush likes golf.

Hitler was scary. Bush is silly. Hitler scowled. Bush smirks. Hitler started out as a painter. Bush began as a partier. Hitler preferred to rest in a picturesque mountain retreat. Bush prefers the arid wasteland of Crawford. Hitler's unit was uncut; Bush's is cut. Hitler spoke German. Bush speaks English. Hitler's wife was named "Eva." Bush's wife is named "Laura." Hitler's last name began with an "H." Bush's last name begins with a "B."

In spite of these innumerable differences, both Bush and Hitler do share one thing in common: when the enemy attacks, both seek the maternal, womb-like comfort of deep underground bunkers, from which they issue their historic proclamations to their people--Hitler's call to fight to the last German, Bush's call to get back into the shopping malls. This one similarity, however, does not justify Ms. Daeubler-Gmelin's comparison.

Or does it?

Only time will tell.

Let's make a rhyme! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399183)

There once was a codec named ogg
It's name was stupid and odd
It never got any play
Except by the nerds of the day
What in the fuck else rhymes with ogg?

But what rhymes with mp3? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399310)

What in the fuck else rhymes with ogg?

So you're saying mp3 has a better name? Justify.

AUDIOTRON!!! (5, Informative)

zerofoo (262795) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399201)

Info here [turtlebeach.com].

I own two of these. The audiotron works by scanning a windows/samba share...so it will work with linux.

It is audio component sized, uses ethernet or HPNA, is rack-mountable,uses an IR remote control, and turtle beach even publishes the IR codes for programming devices like a Pronto.

I'm not sure about OGG support. My whole collection is MP3, but it does support WMA (groan).

There is no TV out support. It does, however, have an optical digital out, if you choose to use external D/A conversion.

I've been very happy with mine. I got gave away a sonic blue balls device because it required proprietary server software....and the support sucked.

Hope this is helpful.

-ted

Legal problems (0)

Jonathan the Nerd (98459) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399212)

...it is all from CDs that I personally own or have borrowed from friends.

This is the RIAA. We know where you are. Do not attempt to escape. We will be there shortly with a warrant for your arrest. (Well, warrant may be too strong a word -- it's more of a used gum wrapper than a warrant per se -- but it still carries the force of law, since we are the RIAA.)

Got a PS2? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399220)

You can use QCast Tuner software on your networked PS2 to get most of these features... Check it out here: http://www.broadq.com/qcast.html It will have .OGG and S/PDIF output shortly (next week or so, they claim.) The audio/video quality are amazing -- I'm a beta tester.

Try Otto (1)

spribyl (175893) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399234)

I have been using otto for a couple of weeks now and like it quite a bit.
http://www.cardhouse.com/otto/ [cardhouse.com]

Re:Try Otto (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399333)

Yeah!

otto +
linux server
+ wireless lan
+ Serial IR receiver =

cool, flexible & cheap audio jukebux

PS: cron jobs unmute to wake me up and mute at night

why not just buy a universal remote receiver? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399240)

just did a google search for:
computer remote control

first link:
www.home-electro.com

sells a doodad that you hook up to your serial port which allows you to to use your remote control to run the PC.

If the sound is good enough... (4, Interesting)

Junta (36770) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399246)

I wouldn't give up on the computer unless the audio card delivers unsatisfying sound quality or the system makes too much noise on it's own.

For one, using the gui is not necessarily the best approach anyway. For one there are keyboard shortcuts in most every application. For another, you could get something like xmms-lirc and some other relatively cheap device and use a remote on your system.

The *huge* plus for having an HTPC is that you are not limited to mere music applications. Video is a decent option, and games as well. I know the resolution is not great on most TVs, but can't beat them for size.

But if you *really* want to go over the deepend in price, you could improve your display technology. A projector that does XGA (1024x768) is very awesome. If you like big screens and like Video, that is a life saver, and it can cut down in cords. For example, you would have your screen and probably stereo speakers of front, with one wire for each speaker running, say, behind your couch. You keep all your stereo and video equipment back there, or next to your couch. I'm big on video game systems, so the cords on controllers are more convenient this way. Plus, I don't have to move my butt off the couch to change DVDs when I'm watching a Box Set in a sitting... Of course, a decent projector runs a couple of thousand, and you can't walk in front of it, so it is something you have to carefully consider...

Re:If the sound is good enough... (2)

ergo98 (9391) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399334)

On the same lines, many HDTV TVs nowadays offer DVI inputs, allowing one an extremely high quality display on their TV. HDTI 1080i is, I believe 1920x1080 (interlaced of course, though there is a 1080p on some ultra high end sets I think), which is nothing to scoff at.

Turtle Beach AudioTron (4, Informative)

PhotonSphere (193108) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399252)

The Turtle Beach AudioTron [thinkgeek.com] has been tempting me for quite some time. I've looked at many other component systems and this seems to be the most solid in terms of support, build quality, and ease of use.

If you don't want to have to run a patch cable to it, simply use a wireless bridge like the LinkSys WET11 [linksys.com] or get a wireless ethernet converter [seattlewireless.net] to tie it into your SAMBA server.

Linux MP3 Players Project Page (0)

snugge (229110) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399255)

Lots of nice solutions here...

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/bchafy/mp3.html

sadly use windows (1)

sickmtbnutcase (608308) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399258)

It's sad to say, but you could set up a winduhs box for the music. I'm running mine w/ a 1.2Ghz duron and a radeon piped to the tv, winamp2.8 supports ogg, (as far as i know). Plus, having the Mildrop plugin go nuts on your tv is better than tripping on LSD...

Re:sadly use windows (1)

Junta (36770) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399293)

I thought that Windows would make a better HTPC, so I had mine dual-booting linux and windows, but have since zapped the windows partition. My main reason is that the mouse tends to play too big a role in Windows unnecessarily. mplayer is great for video with keyboard support. It also tends to be more universal than anything in Windows. For examlpe, mplayer can play Sorenson .movs and realmedia content as well as more .avi codecs than Windows Media Player easily supports out of the box...

xmms-lirc is great for using a remote with xmms. So now the mouse is mostly optional. Of course, for when I'm ultimately lazy, my laptop is my remote control. Wireless nework and x0rfbserver/vnc is great.

For those who are using Windows and don't want to change for one reason or another, ZoomPlayer makes media playback under windows livable.... Do a search for it. Hell, I never use WMP under windows anymore, I can't stand the lack of decent keyboard control...

You're the problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4399263)

...it is all from CDs that I personally own or have borrowed from friends.

Why was this even posted? It's people like this that cause problems with the RIAA. That's not fair use, that's plain theft.

Re:You're the problem (2)

aronc (258501) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399309)

Why was this even posted? It's people like this that cause problems with the RIAA. That's not fair use, that's plain theft.


Nope. Check the audio home recording act. Not illegal.

Remote Control Linux? (1)

Max Threshold (540114) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399267)

I always wondered if it's possible to receive signals from a universal remote using a IRDA device. Then you could control your whole system.

Does XMMS have a control API like WinAmp? You know, where games things can control it?

AudioRequest (4, Informative)

inicom (81356) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399279)

ARQ2-135 or their new TeraServer

Absolutely the best engineered component MP3 player available.

ReQuest Multimedia [request.com]

rs232, tcp/ip, and IR control, digital out, tv out (composite and s-video), analog out, analog in, built-in samba and webserver, runs QNX, excellent support, pre-written modules for control from high-end systems like Crestron, drives are swappable, fully-documented open protocols, java remote, etc, etc. Highly recommended. I have an ARQ1 that I'm very happy with, and I get to play with ARQ2-135's almost everyday.

PR link at request [request.com]

(I have played with Arrakis DC6, Escient Fireball's, Lansonic, and prefer the AudioRequest by far. If I was going to recommend a runner up, it would be the Arrakis [arrakis-systems.com] because of the 6 zones, but the AudioRequest wins for me because of MP3 support, upcoming OggVorbis support, better interfaces and it is their primary business).

iPAQ Entertainment Center (1)

boots@work (17305) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399289)

You could look at HP's iPAQ music center. I haven't seen one in the flesh.

It's bigger and probably louder than the Slim Devices unit, but it doesn't require a PC to be running. Unsurprisingly I hear it runs Linux/Samba/etc inside too.

They used to have one under the HP brand with a CD-R, but perhaps Carly downsized it.

Turtle Beach Audiotron is another option (1)

rmach (164119) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399292)

http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/products/audiotron /producthome.asp

Dedicated player. (1)

Marc Desrochers (606563) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399298)

I've been toying with a similar idea for a while. The problem is that the solutions I've seen always use the same strategy. Regardless of the interface used, the music is still played by MY machine. What I've been working on is a dedicated machine that plays the music, to take the load off my machine. This machine has nothing but power sound and network coming out the back. The only hiccup is that I havn't found the right combination of tools to make me happy, so I decided to learn PHP and roll my own. Is there anything of the sort already out there?

Used G4 Cube w/ cd-r drive (1)

ErnstKompressor (193799) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399301)

A cube with a keyspan ir reciever, s-video out to a tv. 500mhz w/ a ATI radeon card for video, OS X. Capture keyspan remote signals to your universal remote(throw in a burn button), (or try capturing a Macally ir keyboard's signals into a Phillips-type universal remote) and use itunes or an ogg-player through your tv from your couch, pop in a blank and pick out a mix for a friend.

This is what I did. (2)

Frank of Earth (126705) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399319)

Check it out here [fperkins.com]

Audrey's make a perfect dumb terminal for web applications and you can problably put it on a shelf by your home entertainment system. I keep my Audry in the kitchen so I can pull up recipes too.

I buy, I pirate. (1, Redundant)

hyoo (155460) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399338)

...it is all from CDs that I personally own or have borrowed from friends

So in a nutshell, you pirate music.

I just thought it was strange that you needed to point that out, as if borrowing CDs from friends and ripping them is legal and within 'fair use'.

Its okay. I 'borrow' CDs from my 'friends' from all over they world. They are even kind enough to encode them and make them easily accessible over the internet so I don't have to pick up and return the CD to their houses.

What I currently use. (1)

slakdrgn (531347) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399341)

I personally use windows for this kind of setup, mainly cause I haven't been able to find anything really good with linux to work on this laptop. My current HTPC is a Compaq Armada E500 Laptop with a cracked LCD. Lucky the Video out even works within the bios (rarly seen in laptops) and it has 800Mhz PIII, DVD, 512MB ram, 10gb hd, 16MB Rage Mobility P. I use zoomplayer (search google) with it to make video playing manageably and use a program called media-box for the navigation. I also found a little tool [dohnut.org] to use for Packard Bell remote receiviers [wiresncode.com] (remember thos) that will map *ANY* remote to any key. Pretty cool stuff. Media box also works with WinAmp so you can play your ogg/mp3 files ;)

Disclaimer... (1, Redundant)

Shanep (68243) | more than 11 years ago | (#4399342)

It is all in mp3 or ogg format and it is all from CDs that I personally own

Well thank God for that, eh!

or have borrowed from friends.

What was the point in telling us this? Downloading music is somehow worse morally than ripping from friends CD's?

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