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OpenOffice Beta for Jaguar/X11 Released

pudge posted more than 11 years ago | from the everyone-please-wait-until-i-finish-downloading-it dept.

OS X 37

kaldari writes "After great work by the development contributors and astounding help from the new testing team, the X11 build is now stable enough for beta testing to begin! This build can run both on DarwinPPC 6.0 and higher and also Mac OS X 10.2 and higher with help from other open source projects. For more info, check out the OpenOffice site."

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so what? (2, Informative)

BigBir3d (454486) | more than 11 years ago | (#4447135)

That is nice and all. IMO, it is hard to get someone to use a 'ugly' windows look-a-like program on OS X when they can use something else that is 'guaranteed' to work that matches the purtiness of OS X. It has also been my experience that the average Mac user is more inclined to pay for something (Office v.X) that works than not pay for something that somewhat works.

One Step at a Time (2, Interesting)

BobTheJanitor (114890) | more than 11 years ago | (#4447356)

It has also been my experience that the average Mac user is more inclined to pay for something that works than not pay for something that somewhat works.

Well, /.ers aren't, for the most part, average Mac users. It may not look have Apple's look & feel, but I think it's certainly a step in the right direction, and those of us who use Macs and support open-sourced software would do well to either use it if we feel so inclined, or wait until its look & feel improves rather than belittling it.

Re:One Step at a Time (2, Interesting)

BigBir3d (454486) | more than 11 years ago | (#4447677)

I am so sorry. I must have confused the idea of everyone using something like OpenOffice instead of MSOffice as a goal of OpenOffice's. My bad.

Re:One Step at a Time (1)

gnuadam (612852) | more than 11 years ago | (#4451164)

Four words: "It's still in beta."

Re:One Step at a Time (1, Troll)

macdaddy357 (582412) | more than 11 years ago | (#4449552)

Some Windows XP fans were going to write more about why XP is all that, and Macs just aren't any good, but their PCs all crashed, and are stuck on the blue screen of death. They will have to reboot before we will hear from them. Oh well. If it weren't for Macs costing more than PCs. PC would be a dead platform like the Radio Shack TRaSh-80.

What is "average"? (5, Interesting)

Outland Traveller (12138) | more than 11 years ago | (#4448521)

It may very well be that the "average" Mac user is changing. Ever since OS X, I and other *nix folk have been enthusiasticly adopting the platform alongside our usual assortment of Linux/BSDs workstations. No GUI on the market can currently match OS X. The system is an absolute dream to work on, and for my budget the 14" ibook is the laptop of choice.

From this point of view, it is a great thing that I can now use OpenOffice.org on all my platforms!

That depends... (Just A Troll) (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4449802)

If you want an "alternative" office suite for OS X, consider ThinkFree Office [thinkfree.com] . It's not open-source, but it's a working, Aqua-style office suite that's not made by Microsoft. No free downloads, though (it costs $50).

Well, um . . that's great and all . . . (3, Insightful)

DrHogie (8093) | more than 11 years ago | (#4447155)

but how about a version of OpenOffice that runs in OSX natively? I.e. WITHOUT X11?

I've seen that there is a alpha w/ Aqua support, but I have yet to see a download for it -- is it anywhere?

Re:Well, um . . that's great and all . . . (1)

Phil Ulrich (595587) | more than 11 years ago | (#4447231)

I was wondering that myself. I think I read something about it on Macdevcenter, over at O'Reilly, but they (or whoever wrote the article I was reading) implied it would be out, oh, last week. I'd love to have a native OOo using Aqua's widget set, but it's starting to look like I'm going to have to do it myself! :\

Re:Well, um . . that's great and all . . . (5, Informative)

90XDoubleSide (522791) | more than 11 years ago | (#4447402)

Their roadmap is to first get a version that works fine on OS X using X11 for windowing, then to make a version that draws everything manually in quartz and still looks like the X11 version, but it runs without X11, and then finally to make a version that uses aqua widgets. They plan to be done with this by summer 2004, so don't go trashing your copy of office just yet ;) http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/timeline.html

Re:Well, um . . that's great and all . . . (2)

tdelaney (458893) | more than 11 years ago | (#4449059)

I saw this, and the last two steps sound arse backwards.

Why go to the trouble of implementing your own widgets (drawing everything manually in quartz)? Surely it would be easier to go directly from X11 to Aqua? Drawing your own widgets is the very last thing you should do.

Unless of course they mean to put everything into Quartz windows, but also have it running (hidden) under X11 and blit to the Quartz windows. Which seems almost as stupid.

Re:Well, um . . that's great and all . . . (1)

anarkhos (209172) | more than 11 years ago | (#4449914)

This is Sun we're talking about. Do you think they have a clue about interface design?

What about porting the MODEL to Cocoa instead? You can currently import html into your richtext document, if I could do the same with Microsoft documents all Cocoa apps could easily benefit.

Re:Well, um . . that's great and all . . . (1)

anarkhos (209172) | more than 11 years ago | (#4449891)

That's a really CRAPPY strategy!

The result will be an app which is even worse than Qt/OSX or Swing/OSX apps!

Nothing is worse than the combination of the Aqua appearance without the Mac behavior.

Widgets do not make an interface!

Re:Well, um . . that's great and all . . . (1)

soullessbastard (596494) | more than 11 years ago | (#4458192)

And for everyone complaining about the porting approach, I recommend reading that timeline's Aqua section [openoffice.org] which includes half a year for redesigning the interface to adhere to the Apple Human Interface Guidelines [apple.com] and will deviate from OpenOffice.org on other platforms.

No, simply using Aqua buttons does not a Mac application make. But what's the sense of having a Mac-like UI if it is drawing Windoze buttons, toolbars, and menus?

Re:Well, um . . that's great and all . . . (3, Informative)

jeblucas (560748) | more than 11 years ago | (#4449087)

No guarantees, I haven't even tried this, and /. may kill it, but try here. [neooffice.org] Google cached it here [216.239.51.100] .

Re:Well, um . . that's great and all . . . (3, Informative)

mr100percent (57156) | more than 11 years ago | (#4456833)

Try NeoOffice [neooffice.org] .

Re:Well, um .. that's great - caliphate of death (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4460128)

ISLAMIC DEATHBRINGER ALERT. The purveyor of the Satanic Caliphate is here. The DEaTH bringer. Fuck off you Islamic pig fucking bitch. I want to get Jewish rabbis to put pork sausage in your asshole and make you suck the liquid shit from a pig's ass you fucking greasy slimy dirty puke fuck towel head sand worm fuck. Islam is a veiled homosexual religion, you are boy and baby fuckers, you Islam, you cover your women up so that being GAY is easier, foul fucking Islamic Muslim piece of SHIT. you PIECE OF FUCKING PIG SHIT. you fucking great Satan! you are the great Satan, you are satanic and immoral, you are the anti-societal hordes, you are CLITORIS CHOPPERS! you are death bringers, you don't write anything good, you don't have any good music, or any good science, you have nothing. you are foul death. DEATH. You pigs will be roasted in NUCLEAR FIRE.

Hi clitoris choppers (aka Islamic peoples). You Islamic fucking animals. I hate you you pull-start camel jockey. Towelheads, Camel Jockies, Sand Niggers, Ackmids, Abeebs, Carpet Flyers, Dune Coons, Rag Heads, Sand Scratchers, Habeebs, Abba-Dabbas, Camel-Humpers, Demi-niggers, Fig-Gobblers, Hucka-luckas (hucka hlacka ghalcka ghugh), Lefties (If you steal, you lose the right hand so, since they are thieves...) Ocnods, Pull-Start-ables (imagine pull starting Ossama's dirty rag like a Briggs and Stratton), Roach-Ranchers (habibs cant kill roaches by a tenant of Is-slum), Sand Moolies.

Take home a bucket from KFC. Kabul fried chumps. Abra ca dabra! Shazam!

Shut up all you dirty fucking Islamic pigfucking swinehundts.

Take your fucking Koran and cram it up your ass. The sooner the earth sees Islam leave it, the better off it will be. Your Koran is Goat Piss.

I hope if there is a God and a Hell, you have to drink the liquidy shit from a Pig's ass, and Jewish Rabbis defecate on you.

I hate the stupid ISLAM fucks who read into the trash they come up with. Saddam Hussein [who needs to take a dirt nap] is higher on my sanity list than fucking Muslim "clerics." In fact, I like Saddam more than most of the other Arab leaders because he is secular. We should fucking nuke the Saudis and Mecca and Medina and turn it into rubble, then tell Saddam to remove the heads of all the buttfucking "royalty" in the area.

I want to wipe my ass with Mohammad's shroud. I want to grind his body up into bone meal and fertilize my garden with it.

Our tortured dead scream out in HORROR, asking for vengeance:
  1. Kill all Camel Jockeys.
  2. Kill all Mohammedans.
  3. Kill all Dune Coons.
  4. Kill all Rag Heads.
  5. Kill all Towelheads.
  6. Kill all Arabs.
  7. Kill all Camel Rooters.
  8. Kill all Osama Bin Laden supporters.

Nuke their countries to hell.
Nuke them again.
Death to Islam.

I piss on Mecca. I wipe my ass with the Koran. I shit upon Mohammed. I wipe the cum for a freshly fucked pussy with Mohammed's shroud then throw it in the pig sty so it can mire in pig shit as it decomposes.

Re:Well, um .. that's great - caliphate of death (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4476643)

go away, hatemonger

Re:Well, um .. that's great - caliphate of death (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4477072)

I only hate with words, you fucking wet towel fucking scum killer, you maim, your terror bomber.

You will be judged and cast away by the powers that be, your death will get none of my pity and you will have precipitated it upon yourself, YOU xenophobic pieces of shit, your elitist religious country club will be your own undoing..

In the great continuum that it time your are those who serve to disrupt it by ending the brilliance and lives of those who your zealous foul religion call heathens and infidels. Your death will be celebrated, you will not be missed.

My rhetoric is a reflection of my anger at your, your Islamic death leaders, and your religions unwillingness to admit to what it really is, a death mongering cult.

Your religion is one which produces nothing that is meritorious, your artisans are not accomplished or made pariahs, social and economic structures in Islamic states are defunct, your religion is rife with inconsistency and moral shortcomings, your anti progress and western religion which is rooted in pagan beliefs is a pathetic made up religion that is the backwash of a crazed terrorist and mass killer, Mohammed. You cry Jihad, and call for holy war, and call for the death of the west and the infidels. We will defend ourselves. And since we know deep down what is right, and value our existence and the lives of our children and the meaning of freedoms, aspirations and some semblance of equality, we will crush you defending it. Prepare for your doom, each terrorist event only increases our resolve and fortitude, we must be forgiving and kind because your precious centers of idolatry, Mecca and Medina, are not sheets of glass yet.

One day, we will open a gold course and the 19TH hole bar will be in that fucking stone shack you foul idiots covet. Idolaters, pagan based, misguided pathetic violent destructive foul piece of trash religion.

Your corrupt leadership doesn't even attempt to save face. And we notice. Your religions inability to do anything but destroy is noted, and punishment will be exacted for your infractions, probably 10 fold, and you pigs will have precipitated on your own women and children the lancing fires of justice from the sky. Your bodies vaporized to ash where you can be one with the earth again from whence you came maybe one day your atoms will be incarnated again as a useful life form.

Somewhat of a troll, but... (1)

dpete4552 (310481) | more than 11 years ago | (#4447927)

OpenOffice has got to be the ugliest peice of software I have *ever* run on my computer. Word 2.0 for DOS is good compitition as far as looks go.

I know the point is not looks, it is to get work done. But my god, are you guys *trying* to make it have the ugliest most combersome interface possible? If so, mission accomplished.

Again, sorry for the troll, but that just had to be said.

Gee that's not a troll at all. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4448375)

Oh and by the way, I don't know if you've heard-- but OOo is an Open Source program and will no doubt accept any patches to make it better that you may have written and sitting on your hard drive.

Re:Somewhat of a troll, but... (5, Funny)

kwerle (39371) | more than 11 years ago | (#4448472)

I know the point is not looks, it is to get work done. But my god, are you guys *trying* to make it have the ugliest most combersome interface possible? If so, mission accomplished.

Well, it is trying to compete with Office, so you're probably not far off the mark :-)

Re:Somewhat of a troll, but... (1)

X_Caffeine (451624) | more than 11 years ago | (#4455353)

Dumb remark. Office for OS X is gorgeous. Give the MS Mac guys credit where credit is due... or accept that your opinions of MS are blinded by zealotry.

(or maybe, just maybe, you really do think Office X is fugly... in which case you merely have bad taste)

Re:Somewhat of a troll, but... (2)

kwerle (39371) | more than 11 years ago | (#4461807)

The OpenOffice project is NOT (I think) inspired by Office X. Rather, it is coming from the PC world to the Mac world. Remember the initial Mac port of Office? People bitched about how horrible it was for months, if not years.

Personally? Office on the PC is fugly. Office X, *slightly* less so. Man, does it piss me off that I can't do cmd-shift-s in word to do "Save As", which is standard for the platform...

Re:Somewhat of a troll, but... (2, Insightful)

anarkhos (209172) | more than 11 years ago | (#4449940)

Apparently you haven't seen other applications Sun has authored!

Nothing is more true than the fact Sun has NO CLUE when it comes to human interface design!

What they should do is port the MODEL to Cocoa then let others write the views and controllers.

There are plenty of good Sun applications... (2)

oneiros27 (46144) | more than 11 years ago | (#4477270)

Let's see, there's um....wait, no, that's command line.

There's um....wait, no, that's SunOne, which is really iPlanet, which was the Sun/Netscape Alliance, which was Netscape...

um.... well, the OS installer doesn't suck that bad...assuming you're working from a jumpstart server, and don't need to work interactively.

[Oh...from experience...you're still better off trying to install it yourself than letting Sun Professional Services do it for you... installed all the applications in /, and configured SIMS to use one large mail partition, without mentioning to us that the SIMS backup program stops when it hits a 2G limit, and that's the only reason we were making our 4hr backup window. [over 300G of data]]

Sun's plan SUCKS and here's why... (2, Insightful)

anarkhos (209172) | more than 11 years ago | (#4450003)

The master plan is to port this horrible, horrible program to Quartz, then add Aqua-looking widgets. The result will be an app which is organized and behaves the same as it does now. That is if there is any organization to this interface...

C'mon people, this is Sun Microsystems we're talking about! Doesn't anybody remember CDE?

Sun has NO CLUE WHATSOEVER when it comes to human interface design. I mean look at their Swing apps for crissakes! All they do is try to copy current designs, and they aren't even as good at that as Microsoft is!

The current plan SUCKS and nobody should waste their time propping up these pieces of poop AKA OpenOffice's views, controllers, and 'design' (if you can call it that without offending developers who have actually designed interfaces).

What we REALLY want are not the views and controllers which are poop, but rather Open Office's MODEL which can import/export Microsoft formats! Port THIS to Cocoa and then create native views and controllers!

This in turn could be ported back to GNUStep so people trying to use this piece of poop on other platforms don't have to suffer as much.

Re:Sun's plan SUCKS and here's why... (1)

damiam (409504) | more than 11 years ago | (#4450184)

these pieces of poop

This is slashdot. You can say "shit". You're not going to get in trouble.

Re:Sun's plan SUCKS and here's why... (1)

anarkhos (209172) | more than 11 years ago | (#4450216)

Yea, but then people assume I'm trolling if I say shit too often |-)

My G4 broke some time ago so I'm not in a position to develop anything ATM. A bit frustrated right now. Not that I don't have a long enough dev to-do list as it is.

Re:Sun's plan SUCKS and here's why... (1)

bsartist (550317) | more than 11 years ago | (#4451769)

Doesn't anybody remember CDE?

Frankly, I've been trying hard to repress that memory - and you had to go and bring it up again. Thanks a lot! Now it's back to the therapist's couch for me...

Apple Laptop Keyboards Unsuitable for Unix Users (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4450924)

Apple laptops are effectively unusable for unix users.

I am a long-time Unix user. That means I need to have the Ctrl key to the left of the A key. This is a genuine need, not merely a want; it is based upon ergonomics. The Ctrl key is heavily used in unix, and it must be easily accessable. It cannot be off in the lower left corner of the keyboard where it is difficult to get at, and where it distorts the position of your left hand such that you can't easily type other keys while holding the Ctrl key down.

Apple desktop keyboards are now all USB. They are all OK. The CapsLock key can be re-mapped into a Ctrl key.

Unfortunately, even in this modern age, all Apple laptops have built-in ADB keyboards. The ADB keyboard is broken-by-design [slashdot.org] . It is, in general, not possible to remap the CapsLock key into a Ctrl key.

There are some exceptions, but they are horrible kludges. They are horrible kludges because the original design of the ADB keyboard was a horrible kludge. The correct solution would be for Apple to re-design their laptop motherboards to use built-in USB keyboards. This hasn't happened yet. If you run Linux, use Debian's solution. [debian.org] For Mac OS X users, uControl [versiontracker.com] works. There are no solutions (that I know of) for either NetBSD or OpenBSD. Please note once again that the "solutions" above are in fact kludges, because of the original bad design [slashdot.org] of the ADB keyboard.

Apple is (currently) ignoring Unix users! This is not merely speculation on my part. In an on-going email exchange I am having with an Apple employee (whom I won't name) in their marketing department, the Apple marketing person directly stated to me that Apple was catering to their historic Mac customers, and is purposely ignoring the Unix market. He also claimed that Apple would soon start paying more attention to the Unix market. I won't hold my breath. Apple has been ignoring Unix users for more than 12 years [google.com] . I expect that trend to continue. (Also note that my Apple contact indicated that Macs would never ship with a 3-button mouse, even though Apple intended to port almost all X-window software and deliver it either on a CD/DVD or installed directly on each Mac's hard drive. How Unix friendly is a 1-button mouse with X programs that often require 3 buttons?)

Apple has now lost two opportunities to sell me hardware. I really wanted an Apple laptop for their superior battery life, and for the PowerPC with Altivec CPU. (The Altivec is vastly superior to the x86 line for DSP.) Because I can't live with the broken-by-design built-in ADB keyboard in all Apple laptops, Sony and IBM sold me laptops instead. If Apple fixes this problem, they will sell me a PowerBook next year; if they don't, I'll still be running OpenBSD on x86 hardware, and wishing I could use a Mac.

Re:Apple Laptop Keyboards Unsuitable for Unix User (0, Offtopic)

goon america (536413) | more than 11 years ago | (#4451057)

You can't remap a key in Mac OS X???

It's impossible! umm except for this.... [gnufoo.org] [uControl] started out as a simple hack to remap the caps lock key to a control key, but has since evolved into a fairly sophisticated means of remapping many of the modifier keys on your keyboard to any other modifier keys you wish.

Re:Apple Laptop Keyboards Unsuitable for Unix User (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4451467)


your an idiot.
didn't you post this almost word for word last week?
apple is currently ignoring unix in marketing, because they are focusing on ease of use towards windows switchers. the problem is you were talking to someone in MARKETING. did you try talking to anyone at APple working APPLE OEPN SOURCE PROJECT DARWIN? i think they would have different point of view than marketing guy. once agian, your an idiot.

apple has been ignoring unix users for so long because they didn't have anything to offer them, with unix OS now, and unix switchers coming over and apple is woo the scientific and film industries, a brand new server, and you wont "hold your breathe" ? maybe you should try slwoing your rant down, breathing and thinking for a second. fyour anger has made you stupid and blind

Re:Apple Laptop Keyboards Unsuitable for Unix User (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4451981)

the problem is you were talking to someone in MARKETING. did you try talking to anyone at APple working APPLE OEPN SOURCE PROJECT DARWIN?

Yes! The first person I contacted and talked to was Jordan Hubbard. He was very sympathetic to my request, and hoped it would happen, but directed me to communicate with Apple's marketing deptartment, as he had no ability to influence hardware design.

Note that the correct solution is to re-design the motherboard of laptops, and use USB instead of built-in ADB keyboards.

Jordan Hubbard agreed it would be a very good idea, but couldn't do anything about it. The marketing guy indicated that Apple didn't really care about the needs of unix users, so Apple wouldn't do this anytime soon.

I won't be buying any Apple products anytime soon. I am ready to plunk down my money immediately after this problem gets fixed.

Chimera for OpenOffice? File formats are the key (2, Interesting)

EricHsu (578881) | more than 11 years ago | (#4451846)

To be fair, I don't agree with the assessments that OpenOffice is so awful a program. The current OS X beta is definitely not for the typical user. It's a sluggish X11 app. But it works, and it (mostly) decodes Office apps and does (mostly) the same things. On a PC I find it's quite comparable to Office 2000, and maybe even XP, except for some of the more exotic features. It's pretty speedy and is a reasonable drop-in replacement.

When it's free from X11, that will be a good step, but it's probably true that it will always feel like a port, even if it's got native drawn widgets.

What we dream about is a Chimera for OpenOffice. To spell it out: Mozilla has brilliant ideas (maybe too many of them), but the key is that the engine decodes most HTML/Jscript found in the wild. However, for Mac users it looks and feels like a port, even with the beautiful Navzilla skin. So, Chimera jumps in, keeping the standards-loving Gecko engine, but adding a beautiful Cocoa front-end.

But I think this is only a fantasy for OO. The OO.org folks explain their choice of porting strategy by saying there isn't good separation between the display code and the rest of it, so we can't hope to bolt on a sweet Cocoa/Aqua front-end.

Maybe in the short term the best we can hope for is a damned good Cocoa MS Office file translator based on OO. After all, the most important thing about OO is that it reads and saves MS Office documents. The only reason I need Office is to read other people's files. I don't use 99% of the bloaty features they have. I wish I could use a simpler word processor, like Mariner Write or Nisus (is it still alive?).

Maybe seamless translation to MS Office is possible a lot sooner than 2004 (OO's native widget due date). Let me dream...

Re:Chimera for OpenOffice? File formats are the ke (2, Interesting)

Lissst (451356) | more than 11 years ago | (#4463433)

You said that the team says there isn't a good seperation of the display code and everything else. Maybe this would be a good time to modify the existing software and seperate that out. Then it should be quite simple to build a native OS X GUI instead of kludging another GUI into the existing codebase. For me, I would be content with an ugly user interface using X11 for the next year or two while the core OpenOffice code is modularized a little more. Then when the GUI for OS X is built, we would know that it wasn't a hack, but a good port that will be native to OS X.

Can you realize the work? (1)

prinzip (603175) | more than 11 years ago | (#4464417)

I read comment like "Yes but we need a Native OpenOffice or nothing!" but is there anybody here who undesterstand how all this complicated????

Try to help!!! not just crying to tell what you need or just something like: "I will continue to use M$ Office because this one is good!"

Common!
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