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MySQL AB Settles With NuSphere

chrisd posted more than 11 years ago | from the exclamation-point dept.

The Courts 117

PCM2 writes "It appears that MySQL AB has settled its dispute with NuSphere over use of the MySQL trademarks. CEO Marten Mickos has punctuated the occasion with a donation to the FSF -- but there's no mention of what the actual terms of the settlement were, and there's no statement on NuSphere's site either (yet)."

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FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621066)

Got it suckahs!

FINALLY! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621068)

A fp! Woohoo!

Cool (4, Funny)

InnovATIONS (588225) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621081)

As long as I don't have to start calling it GNU/MySQL I will be satisfied.

Re:Cool (3, Funny)

nother_nix_hacker (596961) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621137)

Is it just me or is there a "as long as I don't have to call it GNU/ I'll be happy" post these days?

Re:Cool (4, Funny)

InnovATIONS (588225) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621226)

It's hard to be really creative when you are hoping for first post. I thought about saying 'imagine a beowulf cluster of these' but it just didn't seem to fit.

Re:Cool (2)

civilizedINTENSITY (45686) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621759)

So like have a javascript button on your toolbar that will post something witty for you. That way if you see your in line for a first post, at least it looks like your smart.

Re:Cool (2)

DarkHelmet (120004) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621150)

Imagine what gnu.org [gnu.org] would look like if it did:

GNU's Not Unix!
(GNU's Not MySQL Either)

Underneath is an altered picture of a GNU humping a dolphin.

Re:Cool (4, Funny)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621648)

Ah, so you have seen the the cover the latest O'Reilly book?

Don't you worry your pretty little head, woman (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621841)

As long as that fat bearded monster, RMS, doesn't GPL (General Poverty License)it , you'll never have to prefix GNU before MySql.

However (5, Funny)

nizcolas (597301) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621083)

What has not been settled is the debate over the pronounciation of SQL.

duh (1)

neuroslime (304931) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621108)


ess queue el

Re:However (1)

rusty0101 (565565) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621118)

Here I thought that in the open source community it was pronounced ess cue el, where in the commercial community it was pronounced redundant.

-Rusty

Re:However (2)

orthogonal (588627) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621130)

What has not been settled is the debate over the pronounciation of SQL.

It's pronounced, sqqqqqueeeealllllllll, like a pig.

It's the sound Ned Beatty made in that memorable scene in Deliverance [imdb.com] .

An idea (5, Funny)

sheWhoWalksWithToesL (606460) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621151)

We could start pronouncing it "squirrel".... As in "uh-oh", the squirrel is hosed." or MY squirrel is more secure than YOUR squirrel."

Re:An idea (5, Funny)

Iguanaphobic (31670) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621285)

12567476521 and I'll raise you a palindrome.

Re:An idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621328)

And techs wonder why non-techs think we're so wierd... :)

Re:An idea (1)

Herkum01 (592704) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621642)

I think I can speak for most people when my reply to this is "NUTZ!"

Re:An idea (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 11 years ago | (#4623500)

We could start pronouncing it "squirrel".... As in "uh-oh", the squirrel is hosed."

BTW, when is MyBeaver 1.0 going to be released? My "obnoxious joke ideas" file is getting full.

Can't wait to see what O'reilly has planned for the cover. That alone will sell the book ;-)

Re:However (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621249)

It's pronounced "suck". SQL programing is annoyingly tedious.

Re:However (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621693)

it is obviously pronounced "ess cue ell". Anyone who pronounces it differently, including "sequal" will be grouped with the people who pronounced "TCL" as "tickle", "GUI" as "gooey" and those who use "WYSIWYG" in any fashion whatsoever.

Those people will all be lined up and shot.

Re: pronounciation of SQL (1)

ManxStef (469602) | more than 11 years ago | (#4622317)

...and there was me thinking I'd cleared that up in my last Slashdot post [slashdot.org] .

In summary: either S - Q - L or "sequel", interchangeably. Or "squirrel" if you're a freak [grin]

Cheers,

Re: pronounciation of SQL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4622724)

Unfortunately you would be incorrect.

Sequel was a predessor to SQL.

They are not they same thing. Though they are used interchangably (mainly by DBAs)

MySQL in Swedish (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4623016)

Actually in swedish MySQL can be pronounced "myskul" (not at all pronounced like "my skull" by the way...) wich means something like "cozy fun"

Isn't that fun... and cozy.

Re:However (2)

prizog (42097) | more than 11 years ago | (#4623145)

Judge Saris, at the preliminary injunction hearing, kept mangling the pronounciation -- my ess kweeee el, mysquuuul, I think even mysquirrel at one point.

BTW, thanks for the donation, MySQL.

Re:However (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 11 years ago | (#4623486)

What has not been settled is the debate over the pronounciation of SQL.

We better solve this. Otherwise the ambiguity will just encourage some astronomer to name a new trans-Plutonian asteroid after it.

yo @ 956 972 0032 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621097)

give me a call bitches ask for matthew havener

I got an email from Monty about it: (4, Informative)

Blimey85 (609949) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621098)

Hi!

MySQL AB is pleased to announce that it has settled its lawsuit with Progress Software Corporation and NuSphere Corporation. For more information, see the joint press release at

http://www.mysql.com/press/release_2002_14.html [mysql.com]

Regards, Monty

Re:I got an email from Monty about it: (1)

cranos (592602) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621159)

You see this is why I don't like press releases, you get a whole bunch of nothing.

What exactly is the terms of settlement? Is Nu-Sphere going to get more than a slap on the wrist or what?

What is happening now?

Re:I got an email from Monty about it: (3, Funny)

ekrout (139379) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621257)

Oh yeah?

Well the rest of us all got a hand-typed comment from Marten [slashdot.org] himself! :-p

Re:I got an email from Monty about it: (1)

NineNine (235196) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621594)

Who the hell is "Monty"? If you're gonna name drop, at least drop a name of somebody famous. And, what exactly is in this miraculous email that's not in the article?

On a related note, I got an email from Candy about this really hot web site...

Re:I got an email from Monty about it: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4622921)

Some people are pretty stupid. Gee, lets think about this for a moment... hmm.... this is a MySQL topic... the guy that started MySQL is named what? I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count.

God I hate stupid people.

My Statement On The Matter (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621110)

"I Don't Fucking Care"

Re:My Statement On The Matter (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621160)

"I Don't Fucking Care"


We're sorry. The query we used to generate the readers of this article *should* have read:


SELECT * FROM Readers WHERE Personality != "pathetic loser";


Instead of:


SELECT * FROM Losers WHERE Personality = "pathetic loser";


Sorry for the inconvience.

Re:My Statement On The Matter (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621397)

I still don't fucking care

This (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621121)

Is not a post! [slashdot.org]

More good news for MySQL (4, Insightful)

ekrout (139379) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621125)

With OS X came a bundling of MySQL, and CTOs (Chief Technology Officers) across the country thought to themselves that "Hey, if a big profitable company puts this package of OpenSource software into their flagship OS, it must be OK to use. Let's stop dishing out tens of thousands of dollars a year to Oracle and let's just use this free RDBMS implementation." (Sure, PostreSQL is a bit more weathered, but both are pretty nice considering their price).

Wider acceptance of MySQL and its related products/technologies is a good thing, and solving this NuSphere trademark violation is only a good thing in my mind.

Re:More good news for MySQL (3, Interesting)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621144)

You do understant that MySQL is not much more than a filesystem with a SQL interface, don't you?

Re:More good news for MySQL (5, Funny)

jazman_777 (44742) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621199)

You do understant that MySQL is not much more than a filesystem with a SQL interface, don't you?

Yes. What's so great about Oracle is that it uses Magic (tm) to store its data somewhere in the Matrix.

Re:More good news for MySQL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4623777)

More seriously: Oracle, db2, SQL Server and consorts are a bunch of administration tools, interfaces, (data integrity) enhancements and optimizations, with a data container buried somewhere deep inside.

MySql is a data container, and a darn good one, but barely more than that.

Re:More good news for MySQL (5, Insightful)

ChaosDiscord (4913) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621272)

You do understant that MySQL is not much more than a filesystem with a SQL interface, don't you?

Yup. I also understand that for many applications, all you need is a filesystem with an SQL interface.

A department's home built inventory system doesn't really call out for the power of DB2. The registration system at one of my prior employers just held names, addresses, and a simple join to their registration keys, and all of this was done without the scalability of Oracle.

Choices are good. Heck, sometimes you need a database, but don't need anything more complicated than the ability to store key-value pairs. There is even a free solution for that [sleepycat.com] .

Re:More good news for MySQL (1, Flamebait)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621570)

You know, the moderators are insane. Looked into the face of Cthulhu for too long insane.

What I posted was a joke, and a not funny one at that, why did it get +1?

And the post above it makes no sense! Yet the mods have it at +4!

Damn. Maybe it is time I quite reading /.

Re:More good news for MySQL (2)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621772)

I thought it was Sleepycat Software's Berkeley DB with a SQL engine.

Bruce

Re:More good news for MySQL (2, Informative)

bigiain (11995) | more than 11 years ago | (#4623060)

> I thought it was Sleepycat Software's Berkeley DB with a SQL engine.

It can be.

It uses (according to the doco I've got here) any of 5 different table types, BerkleyDB being just one of them.

see the mysql doco [mysql.com] for details

Is it really...? Oh let's not go there. (2, Interesting)

chrisleonard (523594) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621241)

Aargh ... how will it take until we start the "but is MySQL really an RDBMS" thread here?

(don't click here!) [uk7.net]
(or here!) [uk7.net]


Oops, wait ... there, I've just done it!

Re:More good news for MySQL (5, Insightful)

Frater 219 (1455) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621266)

With OS X came a bundling of MySQL, and CTOs (Chief Technology Officers) across the country [...] PostreSQL

That's odd. I think you said that once before [slashdot.org] , typo and all.

Re:More good news for MySQL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4622726)

I've read Shakespeare multiple times, but that doesn't mean the second or third read through "Macbeth" was any less scintillating.

Re:More good news for MySQL (1)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 11 years ago | (#4622820)

Hmm, the Scottish Database. Is this a select I see before me? Out damn data! MacbethQL.

On second thought, let's not go there...

Re:More good news for MySQL (2)

Malcontent (40834) | more than 11 years ago | (#4623004)

Verry funny.

Re:More good news for MySQL (1)

iSwitched (609716) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621445)

And what would be even better news for MySQL AB is if they could figure out how to get people to pay for something they can get for free...

More like adding Access to Office. (1)

InnovATIONS (588225) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621526)

MySQL is probably more comparable to MS Access than to something like Oracle or SQL Server. There is no way a CTO would downgrade a working application from Oracle or SQL Server to mySQL.

Use it for lighter noncritical work? Quite possibly.

Transactions, stored procedures, and triggers are not just 'bells and whistles' to large database applications. They are core features. You can't easily port from a system that has them to one that does not.

Re:More like adding Access to Office. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4622706)

thanks for reminding me.

i almost just now installed mysql...but thankfully you have saved me from myself.

(whips oracle install CDs from back pocket)

we are in good shape now.

carry on InnovATIONS

Re:More like adding Access to Office. (1)

LordLucless (582312) | more than 11 years ago | (#4622723)

Actually, MySQL does have transaction support [mysql.com] .

MySQL may not be something you want to rely on for mission-critical applications yet, but is certainly moving forwards in leaps and bounds.

Kudos (3, Interesting)

citking (551907) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621152)

I'm glad they both had the sense to overcome this legal dispute. M$ was probably ready for this to fall through and use it as a marketing technique for their SQL server. Whoops!

Overview of the issues, please? (3, Interesting)

scherrey (13000) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621171)

Can someone post a BRIEF summary of what the lawsuit was about? I can't tell from the annoucement what the issues were that were resolved.

Re:Overview of the issues, please? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621481)

As far as i can tell:
  • MySQL offers two versions of their product: a closed-source and a GPL version. The two are absolutely identical except for license. If you want to use MySQL, you just download the free GPL version. However, if you want to incorporate the code to MySQL into one of your own projects, you must either abide by the terms of the GPLed version, or you must pay MySQL AB-- the corporation who owns the copyright on MySQL's code-- for a license to incorporate the non-GPL-restricted version.
  • Nusphere entered into some kind of "interrim" contract with MySQL AB whereby they licensed the code, to incorporate into their own "improved" version of MySQL. However, MySQL AB claims that this contract was limited-time, and had expired utterly by the time this next bit happened:
  • Nusphere registered Mysql.org, on which they then set up and started selling their closed-source "improved" version of MySQL. This website presented itself as if Nusphere were the creator of MySQL, and did not at any point reveal to readers of the website that they were selling a product that was A) created by others and B) available for free elsewhere.
  • Then Nusphere sued MySQL, but i don't know why.
  • About a month after this MySQL sued Nusphere on two counts, first that they were in violation of the GPL by selling their product closed-source-- since the unrestricted licence Nusphere had obtained had expired by this point-- and second that they were in violation of trademark law, because they said that even though the GPL gave nusphere the right to the code, it did not give them to right to market under the "MySQL" name or at the mysql.org internet address.

Please correct anything i have wrong. There are a couple FAQs linked elsewhere in this discussion.

And what were the results? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621547)

What was the end result?

Re:And what were the results? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621881)

Re:And what were the results? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4623796)

LOL.

Thanks for the support (5, Interesting)

martenmickos (467191) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621178)


We are very glad it is over now. Thanks to all of you (and there were many of you) who supported us through this process. You are doing a great job defending free software and open source principles.

Marten Mickos, MySQL AB

Re:Thanks for the support (2)

ekrout (139379) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621288)

Sir,

Congratulations on both a moral and legal victory over NuSphere.

Will you sign my post? ;-D

Sincerely,
-- Eric

Re:Thanks for the support (2)

greenrd (47933) | more than 11 years ago | (#4622754)

Note to all: Eric Krout was an infamous troll on kuro5hin.org. I suggest everyone add him to their Foes list - I have.

Re:Thanks for the support (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4623102)

Wow, you're a loser.

Re:Thanks for the support (1)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621582)

Now that this is over, when do you plan to have subselects added to MySQL?

Re:Thanks for the support (3, Informative)

proj_2501 (78149) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621664)

Re:Thanks for the support (1)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621708)

Thank You. That will help a lot.

Re:Thanks for the support (1)

mark_mysql (623986) | more than 11 years ago | (#4622124)

And you can test them yourself, if you're willing to compile MySQL-4.1 on your own box.

See http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/Installing_source_tree .html [mysql.com] and follow the directions for 'cloning' the 4.1 source tree.

MySQL AB is always looking for feedback from the community on our new features.

Great FAQ on this whole dispute (5, Interesting)

ekrout (139379) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621193)

I didn't know much every single detail regarding this whole argument until I read this page [mysql.com] of frequently asked question on the MySQL vs. NuSphere dispute.

It talks about who actually created the software, as well as their take on others' claims that MySQL AB attempted to "change rules in mid-agreement" with NuSphere.

Good News (2, Informative)

mwdib (56263) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621205)

Pleased to see the settlement. I've made extensive use of Nusphere's mysql-related product line and PHPEd. Excellent products in a nicely bundled form. BTW, I think Nusphere has some of the best mySQL training around.

What I think is particularly funny... (4, Interesting)

Blimey85 (609949) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621211)

is the fact that Oracle won't allow benchmarks to be published without their written consent, and of course your not going to get their consent unless your benchmark shows them in a favorable light.

MySQL on the other hand is much more open. Maybe that's because they are faster in most situations, or maybe it's because they really do have a better philosophy.

If you look at what happened between MySQL and NuSphere, MySQL was never out to crucify anyone. They don't verbally bash anyone or toot their own horn. Look at what they say on their website about their own benchmarks and how they repeatedly point out that the competing products they have tested were not completely optimized due to their lack of knowledge regarding optimizations for those products.

I think MySQL will eventually be the dominant database for two reasons:

  • It's easier/faster
  • It cots a lot less than Oracle
And to top it all off, they are a company that we can feel good about supporting. I have a feeling that if they were to become as large as MS, they would never try anything dirty to gain greater market share or to hold on to what they already have. I think a few other companies could do well to learn by the example MySQL has given us. You don't have to play dirty to get ahead.

Re:What I think is particularly funny... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621292)

Wow, children who can post. I'm impressed. Someday, you'll learn a little bit about databases and the situations under which people use them and you'll understand just how wrong you are.

Re:What I think is particularly funny... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621325)

Why is it that anytime someone tries to post something rational, they are shown no respect by the lesser 5% or so of Slashdot users? I think Slashdot would be a much more productive place if the personal attacks were eliminated. I realize that the whole reason for moderation is so you don't have to read the garbage posts but it saddens me that some people still feel a need to flame.

Re:What I think is particularly funny... (3, Interesting)

Frater 219 (1455) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621379)

If you look at what happened between MySQL and NuSphere, MySQL was never out to crucify anyone. They don't verbally bash anyone or toot their own horn. Look at what they say on their website about their own benchmarks and how they repeatedly point out that the competing products they have tested were not completely optimized due to their lack of knowledge regarding optimizations for those products.

It's still kind of odd that in their competitive comparison system, crash-me [mysql.com] , some candidate features that are listed when you compare two other database products disappear when you add mySQL to the list you're comparing.

For instance, transactions are excluded from comparison whenever you ask to compare a database with mySQL 3.23.39. (They are included if you compare mySQL 3.23.29, in which case crash-me correctly reports that mySQL does not support transactions.)

Try it yourself. Go to crash-me with the above link. Check only the boxes for two non-mySQL databases (such as Oracle and Access, or PostgreSQL and Informix), and submit the form. Scroll down to the "Other features" section, near the bottom. You will see a row labeled "transactions". Now, go back and check the box for mySQL 3.2.39, and resubmit the page. Presto -- no line for transactions.

I'm trying to see this in a positive or even neutral light, but let me be truthful -- I can't. I don't see any honest reason that this special case would be added to the crash-me code. The only reason I can see that mySQL.com would add this behavior to their test suite would be to conceal -- indeed, to "un-ask" -- the question of whether or not mySQL supports transactions.

Re:What I think is particularly funny... (1)

jeremyacole (617071) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621580)

At very best that would be a bug. There is no reason that MySQL as a company would need to conceal that the product had not supported transactions until some point. That's public knowledge, and a well known fact.

If you had contributed your effort to sending an email to MySQL AB instead of posting to slashdot, the bug could've been fixed when you first found it. I have, however, sent the content of your post on to the web guys.

Re:What I think is particularly funny... (4, Informative)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621801)

The underlying database, which was Sleepycat the last time I checked, has been transactional for quite some time. Go look at their site or even read their book. I don't know what the status is of transactions in the SQL engine.

Bruce

Re:What I think is particularly funny... (3, Interesting)

jeremyacole (617071) | more than 11 years ago | (#4622430)

You've posted several other times about this. The "underlying engine" in MySQL is *not* Sleepycat's BDB.

On most installations of MySQL, the "underlying engine" (which we call a "table handler") is MyISAM, an ISAM-based storage engine created by Monty Widenius, the founder and original creator of MySQL. MySQL has been from the start created so that the table handler could be easily swapped out for a newer/better/more featureful one if needbe. In version 3.23 we added support for Sleepycat's BerkeleyDB (which supports transactions and page-level locking) and also added support for Innobase Oy's InnoDB (which supports transactions, row-level locking, and multiversioning, among other features).

You can find more info at:
MySQL Manual: Table types [mysql.com]

Regards,
Jeremy Cole, Sr. Trainer and Consultant, MySQL AB

Re:What I think is particularly funny... (2)

Frater 219 (1455) | more than 11 years ago | (#4622560)

If you had contributed your effort to sending an email to MySQL AB instead of posting to slashdot, the bug could've been fixed when you first found it.

Actually, I alerted webmaster@mysql.com the first time I noticed it -- months ago -- and never heard back. I notice that they seem to have corrected the matter now, regardless of how it originated. Apparently, raising visibility of this problem in this public forum was successful in getting it fixed -- a pattern that I am familiar with from security-related forums.

I'm not willing to withdraw speculation that it was intentional, though, considering mySQL's untruths [uk7.net] regarding the value of vital RDBMS functionality they hadn't at the time bothered to implement. This is a crew with a history of being dishonest about comparison between their product and others, by belittling an essential relational feature their product was missing.

Few pieces of software include in their documentation fallacious "explanations" of why a feature that all their competitors have, but they lack, is bad and unnecessary. It is only to be expected that those who do, and then go on to implement and promote those very "bad and unnecessary" features, would then remove the offending libels from the documentation. The link above includes a quote from mySQL documentation from before it supported relational integrity (aka "foreign key constraints"). You will note that the extravagant claims of integrity being unnecessary and confusing have been removed from the current mySQL documentation. Convenient.

If you have an explanation of how a bug could give rise to the dropping of this particular test from the crash-me results only when a version of mySQL was being evaluated, please do post it here. I will be glad to retract my speculation if it is disproven. Be crash-me's omission bug, or be it lie, no matter -- bugs and lies have in common a dislike for exposure.

Re:What I think is particularly funny... (1)

jeremyacole (617071) | more than 11 years ago | (#4622828)

I can't speak for the webmaster@ alias as I am not part of it, but I sent the text of Bruce's post to our web guys and got the following reply:

From jimw@mysql.com Thu Nov 7 21:52:51 2002
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:36:53 -0800
From: Jim Winstead
To: Jeremy Cole
Subject: Re: BUG: crash-me can't decide about transactions

it's a typo in the mysql and mysql-3.23 result files. the fix will get
pushed to the site shortly.

the 'transactions' row was mislabeled as 'constant string size in where'
if you included either of those result files.

jim

I hope that answers your questions and suspicions!

Re:What I think is particularly funny... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621409)

I think MySQL will eventually be the dominant database for two reasons:

It's easier/faster
It cots a lot less than Oracle


You forgot:

It doesn't support required SQL features

Seriously.. if you believe that MySQL stacks up against Oracle, then you don't know anything about SQL.

Comparing MySQL to Oracle is like comparing a 2-year-old's tricycle to a F-111. MySQL isn't even in the same league as Oracle.

Oracle and MySQL are not swimming in the same sea. (3, Informative)

jpetts (208163) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621412)

I think MySQL will eventually be the dominant database for two reasons:
  • It's easier/faster
  • It cots a lot less than Oracle


I use MySQL and Oracle 8i and 9i in my professional and personal lives, and while MySQL is very useful for quick 'n' easy databases, it is not something I would want to build a real-life large application around, for the simple reason that it is SO nice to be able to embed a nice set of business rules right in the database. That, for me, gives Oracle the edge currently. And yes, MySQL will, I have no doubt, grow these features essential for large and complex applications. And guess what? It will get slower/harder as it does so, and I also believe it will get more expensive.

Re:Oracle and MySQL are not swimming in the same s (1)

llin (54970) | more than 11 years ago | (#4623296)

In these cases, PostgreSQL is probably a viable candidate. It has much better SQL support, triggers, support for stored procedures in multiple language types, and a MVCC locking system that even Oracle doesn't match.

The 7.x series is pretty stable, and you can now vacuum without shutting down.

That being said, MySQL is just a lot easier to work with, especially wrt modifying table structure, support tools, and access control. And having built in braindead replication is nice too.

Re:What I think is particularly funny... (3, Informative)

sapgau (413511) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621415)

I agree on how MySQL presents itself unbaised and openly...BUT

It still can't replace Oracle...
Once it can achieve Transactions, Subselects and a basic implementation of Triggers and Stored Procedures then it will really be considered a viable option to most problems that use Oracle right now.

Or, if we put it the other way around: if, for the current applications that use MySQL, you replace it with Oracle it would be overkill.

Maybe by the next iteration in it's design MySQL will offer more functionality... meanwhile PostgresSQL is the alternative.

Re:What I think is particularly funny... (3, Informative)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621834)

It is transactional with Sleepycat, and ACID with InnoDB. Subselects are currently in development for 4.1 . Stored procedures are planned for 5.0 . They are looking at triggers.

Bruce

or you could just use postgres and have those now (1)

jbellis (142590) | more than 11 years ago | (#4622780)

and use a database written by people who didn't spend years denying that these features were useful, much less desirable...

Re:or you could just use postgres and have those n (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 11 years ago | (#4623539)

What is it about Postgres that it keeps being ignored compared to MySQL? Perhaps MySQL is used by more people because it targets slightly smaller applications? Thus you hear it mentioned more?

Or, perhaps the hard-to-remember name. Sounds like a fertilizer brand, to be frank.

PostgreSQL's got it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4623468)

It is transactional with Sleepycat, and ACID with InnoDB.

PostgreSQL's got MVCC, which is miles ahead.

Subselects are currently in development for 4.1.

Check. PostgreSQL's got that one, too.

Stored procedures are planned for 5.0.

Check.

They are looking at triggers.

Duh, that one too.

And the speed is pretty much on par with MySQL. And it's so easy to setup, if you haven't tried it for some time, do so now [postgresql.org] , it's really stable, fast and loaded with goodies!

Re:What I think is particularly funny... (1)

EzInKy (115248) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621561)

" is the fact that Oracle won't allow benchmarks to be published without their written consent, and of course your not going to get their consent unless your benchmark shows them in a favorable light.

Of course it's not just only Oracle with restrictions on publishing benchmarks. MS, Sun, McAfee and many others have similar clauses in their EULA's.

Just think of the possibilities if this trend was extended to other industries. If Kia doesn't like the results of crash safety tests they could prohibit those results from being published.

NuSphere (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621259)

There was another article on Yahoo about NuSphere getting into a similar lawsuit with another open-source DB, which can be found here [yahoo.com] .

The other lawsuit pertained to a PHPEd-like client and PHPEd, which is NuSphere's IDE for PHP. Essentially it was the same case where copyright was brought into question. Worth a look.

Recap, FAQ (5, Informative)

nsushkin (222407) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621267)

The original post doesn't explain the nature of the dispute. From the Dispute FAQ [mysql.com] , I gather that the dispute is about MySQL trademark/brand.

  • Monty created MySQL as GPL software and later formed MySQL AB to commercialize it.
  • NuSphere sells non-GPL software statically linked to MySQL. NuSphere ships product in GPL violation. NuSphere acquires mysql.com domain.
  • MySQL AB complains, MySQL AB tries to get mysql.com domain back.
  • NuSphere sues MySQL for interference in business
  • MySQL AB countersues for trademark and license infringement
  • They bicker
  • They finally settle

Re:Recap, FAQ (2, Informative)

nsushkin (222407) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621336)

Note, that the Dispute FAQ reflects the point of view of MySQL AB [mysql.com] .

As of now, NuSphere's website [nusphere.com] doesn't seem to have any information about the dispute and search for "MySQL" [nusphere.com] returns

NuSphere MySQL is a fast, reliable relational database management system for developing database-driven Web sites. The integrated distribution of MySQL, Apache, Perl, ..

Re:Recap, FAQ (3, Informative)

Svenne (117693) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621685)

Except that NuSphere aquired mysql.org, not com. mysql.org has never belonged to MySQL AB, it's just that it used to point directly at mysql.com before NuSphere aquired it.

That's a huge relief (1)

Inthewire (521207) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621335)

Now I can rest easy, knowing that they're are no more worries about those companies destroying each other. None of my mySQL installations are in danger. I'm off to celebrate!

"Invisible" robber arrested (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621349)

From correspondents in Tehran, Iran November 07, 2002 IRANIAN police have arrested a man who calmly walked into a bank and attempted to rob it while convinced he was invisible, the Jam-e-Jam newspaper reported. The paper said customers at the Tehran bank were stunned to see the man stride into the bank and begin to help himself to large quantities of banknotes. The man, whose identity was not given, was quickly overpowered before police were called. But appearing in court, he tearfully told the judge that he had been the victim of a con. "I had recently been to see a Muslim holy man, because I was looking for a way to get rich. He made me pay five million rials ($1115) for a parchment that made me invisible," he was quoted as saying. The paper said the man had been jailed, while police were hunting the swindling sorcerer. A similar case was reported here last year, when three people - also believing themselves to be invisible - were detained at Tehran's international airport trying to board a Europe-bound plane without tickets or passports. Agence France-Presse

huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4621414)

what

GPL (5, Insightful)

vlad_petric (94134) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621428)

It's good that they setled the dispute, however I think it would have been much better for the comunity if GPL were tested and proven valid in court. The reality is, there's tons of very valuable software under GPL, and noboy knows whether GPL is truly enforceable.

The Raven

Re:GPL (4, Interesting)

RealAlaskan (576404) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621680)

... and noboy knows whether GPL is truly enforceable.

If the GPL is not valid, you have no right to distribute any GPLed software, unless you own the copyright. You can still use it, and fiddle with it, and on and on. But the GPL is the only thing which gives you the additional privilege of redistributing it.

I hear a lot of nonsense about ``... the GPL has never been tested ...''. It's nonsense because testing the GPl will be a loose-loose proposition for the challenger. If he busts the GPL, he's left with no rights, other than the right to keep and use the copy (or copies) that he has paid for. If he wants to keep his right to redistribute, with or without changes, he'd better not bust the GPL, because then his only rights are the rights you get when you buy a book.

Re:GPL (5, Informative)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 11 years ago | (#4621787)

He's right. We can't find a sucker to be the defendant, because it very truly is a lose-lose proposition.

Bruce

Re:GPL (2)

JoeBuck (7947) | more than 11 years ago | (#4622128)

As Eben Moglen has said [gnu.org] , the GPL has been enforced dozens of times. Potential violators have always backed down and settled before going to court, but that in itself is enforcement.

The fact that no corporate lawyer has yet dared to challenge the FSF in court should tell you something. In many cases, the FSF obtains settlements that require senior managers to report to the FSF regularly on their use of GPL software and their efforts to comply with licenses.

It would have been good to see the GPL tested. (2)

Brett Glass (98525) | more than 11 years ago | (#4622519)

Many lawyers -- some of whom are proponents of open source software -- say that they see serious and fundamental problems in the GPL. It'd be nice to resolve these, and have a court rule one way or the other. Otherwise, there's too much FUD in the air. People just don't know where they really stand.

One advantage of the Berkeley license is that it has been tested in court and ruled valid. And it doesn't have the most dicey quality of the GPL: its viral nature.

Re:It would have been good to see the GPL tested. (1)

chromatic (9471) | more than 11 years ago | (#4623015)

And it doesn't have the most dicey quality of the GPL: its viral nature.

Brett, you'll be pleased to note that our scientists have come up with an inoculation that will protect you. Within six months, you should be able to go to any reputable doctor or medical clinic within the US, Canada, or the EU and receive the JDDMGSC* shot.

* Just Don't Distribute Modified GPLd Source Code

Re:It would have been good to see the GPL tested. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4623789)

Well, what about: I write a "Hello World", GPL it and give it to you. You modify it to print "Hello Cruel World" and sell it to me for $1.
I disassemble it, recognice my code and sue you for $1.50 (hey it's my code. I gotta make a profit). I guess we have a case!

The problem is, once you let a bunch of lawyers and judges loose there's no way of predicing
the outcome. That's probably why FSF (who wants it to be valid) or Microsoft (who probably wants the opposite) hasn't already done that.
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