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Helping Your Ex-Employer?

Cliff posted more than 11 years ago | from the make-sure-you-still-get-paid dept.

News 878

ali_bubba asks: "A funny thing happened to me today, I have beeb unemployed for over 5 months, and all of a sudden my ex-Boss calls me and demands (well, it sounded like a demand) that I help her out, because her entire corporate LAN was down. Naturally, she knows that I'm kind person, but boy what attitude, so I did help her save the day. She did not even bother calling me back to thank me, (like if you get slapped, turn the other cheek, as Jesus once said) Has anyone else had this happen to them before? What actions did you take?" While I can understand that some people in this situation may harbor some ill will if place in this situation, it may behoove you to see this as an opportunity, and at the very least, an opportunity to make a little money off of your old company. It doesn't pay to burn bridges, especially if they need something that you can provide. For those who have been in this situation, how did you handle it? For others, if you were offered work from your old job, would you do it, and under what conditions would your perform said work?

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878 comments

FP! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686463)

Why settle for FP! when you can have 3000th post! We need 100 more posts! so get trolling!

Re:FP! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686478)

Re:FP! (1)

Longshottek (577631) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686493)

you know this first post crap is stupid. Grow up already and stay on topic. Can someone with moderater points do something about the FP thread. -L

Re:FP! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686526)

You have just been added to my foes list (and yes, i DO have a user account, i troll anonymously)

Re:FP! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686596)

Which means that you're that cock Anonymous coword [slashdot.org]

whos bitch are you? (4, Insightful)

Splork (13498) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686464)

ask for consulting fees.

Re:whos bitch are you? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686544)

Yes, just send an invoice. Whether you're currently employed anywhere or not your time is still worth money. That sounds like a good deal for your old work if they can fire you but still have you come in to bail them out -- for free no less.
Just make up an invoive for your labor, you can even charge an on-call fee. A court will back you up as well. Nobody can expect someone to work for free. Anywhere else and they would have had to PAY for the equivalent work. The fact that they called you and wanted it done suggests, to me, that they were requesting your 'service'.
They're rich, go get 'em!!

Nico

Re:whos bitch are you? (5, Informative)

Wavicle (181176) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686615)

Just make up an invoive for your labor, you can even charge an on-call fee. A court will back you up as well. Nobody can expect someone to work for free.

No, the court won't back him up. It's the same thing as your friend next door asking if you could take a look at what is wrong with his Windows 95 box. You can't retroactively charge a fee if you didn't agree on one up front. Whether you want to call it work done for good will, pro bono, volunteer or on spec, you can't charge unless both parties understand before hand there will be a charge or both parties agree afterwards there should be a charge.

Never work for a corporate entity free of consideration. If you're inexperienced, that consideration may just be "experience". If they laid you off, you may work on speculation that they will think of you first when they can start hiring again. But if you've been out of work for 5 months, I reccomend that consideration be cold hard cash.

Re:whos bitch are you? (5, Insightful)

Wavicle (181176) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686566)

Close to all the replies so far have been this, I agree... but one has to wonder... Why on earth did he agree to do this at all without an agreement up front for payment?

Everyone, your employer is not your neurotic pot buddy from college who calls you out of the blue every now and then for help. They are a legal entity that exchanges labor for cash. If your former employer needs help with something, you have the responsibility for asking what kind of consideration they are going to give you for your labor... and get it in writing up front.

No wonder people are getting laid off! Employers are learning they'll work for free "just to be kind".

Re:whos bitch are you? (5, Insightful)

aagha (130742) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686600)

Always remember: It's not personal, it's business.

Your ex-boss was doing business to make sure that her ass didn't get toasted; it would have been nice to call back and say thanks, but it was business, not personal.

Send a bill. Minimum of eight hours of work. Bill fairly! Take the "going hourly rate" for the work you did, plus ad a small markup for doing it on such short notice.

It's not personal, it's business. 'Nuff said.

Re:whos bitch are you? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686636)

I just said no.

Same thing happened too me
Screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me.

Did they pay you? (4, Informative)

MyHair (589485) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686468)

I hope you got paid. If it happens again, say you will surely help. Your price is $x per hour. Simple as that. It's business. Don't let them push you.

They wouldn't provide you a company benefit you had for free now, believe me.

Re:Did they pay you? (2, Insightful)

JakeWilliams (618287) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686533)

I wasn't laid off, but had quit a job with the only beef being that I wanted more money. Over the next year I went over quite a few times to help them fix something that got screwed up, mostly because I was still friends with most of the employees, especially the one they had doing my job on top of his old one. They paid me in pizza and beer. That always works, and it's tax friendly.

Be nice.

Re:Did they pay you? (5, Insightful)

JordanH (75307) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686552)

Absolutely. Don't take demands from EX-employers.

Think about it for a minute. If you don't insist on this, you are doing a disservice to yourself and anybody else in the job market.

You shouldn't give in to their ability to exploit PAST power relationships because you are a "nice guy".

She didn't say "Thank You" because she's going to make darn sure this never happens again. You can bet they are going to cover themselves now and she won't be calling you back. You were used and you should learn from this.

Re:Did they pay you? (3, Interesting)

occamboy (583175) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686598)

Even if they say they'll pay, they may not. I got stiffed for $750 from my ex-employer that needed me to do some intellectual property work. I had a PO for it and everything, but they just refused to pay, saying that I should have done it for free. (At the time, they still had $millions of venture capital in the bank -- they are just stupid and evil).

In the end, it actually sucked worse for them -- they sent stuff to me which, since I was no longer under nondisclosure, seems to constitute public disclosure and significantly cut down their patent filing rights. Also, they tried to get various other ex-employees to do stuff later on, and they refused, since they knew that they would not be paid. And, finally, it's nice to know that they won't bother me again.

Eek. (0, Redundant)

Forkenhoppen (16574) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686470)

I sure hope you got paid for this.. ^^;

I would (5, Informative)

einhverfr (238914) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686471)

Submit an invoice to her for the time necessary to do this (plus transportation, etc.) to her at my previous rate. This may seem harsh to some or weak-willed to others, but it sends a message that you value your time and expect to be compensated.

Re:I would (1)

Krizhek (624833) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686504)

I agree with this while I was a fed ex, I had a similar thing happen where someone help us out then a week later sent us a nasty bill. I would send a bill or demand (or make it sound like a demand) for payment for services rendered.

Re:I would (2)

ninewands (105734) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686539)

Nope ... my consulting fees are approximately 5 times my going rate as an employee ... if this sounds too harsh, consider this ... you have to pay Social Security and Medicare taxes (I'm assuming you're in the U.S.) at the self-employed rate, you have to do all the accounting, etc., for income taxes, AND you have to provide your own tools/equipment (if you're doing it right). In addition, there's the fact that, as an indie consultant, you do the project and leave. I accept a lower hourly rate for steady (read, employee) work than I require for my free lance stuff just because it's steady.

Finally, there is, I'll admit, a wee bit of punitive intent in setting the rate so high ... partly for the attitude you have described and also a little reminder to your ex-boss just how much your services are REALLY worth when the fecal matter hits the rotary ventilation device.

Just my US$0.02

The old joke (5, Funny)

ACNeal (595975) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686561)

This is like the old joke about the doctor and lawyer playing golf. Another golfer runs up and asks the doctor some medical question. The doctor gives some advice and the man runs off. The doctor asks the lawyer if he ever has similar problems. The lawyer responds, "Not so much anymore. I used to have people asking for free legal advice all the time, then I started sending them bills. They don't ask me for advice so much anymore." The doctor responded that he'd have to start doing that also. A week later the doctor got a bill in the mail from the lawyer for services rendered.

You might not expect (i.e. probably can't force them) to get paid, but it does send the message that you are willing to help in the future, but you aren't going to do for free anymore.

Entitled to payment (5, Informative)

vanguard (102038) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686624)

I remember a lesson from my business law course in college. The example they used was this.

If you come home and find that somebody mowed your lawn, you do not own them money because you have no relationship.

If you're at a strip club and you say "no thank you" to a lap dance but she performs anyway, you don't owe a thing because even though they performed a service for which you would normally expect payment, you expressly said you don't want a business relationship.

If you see a kid mowing your lawn and you wave to him (or otherwise prove you know he was doing it), you owe him money. By acknowledging that he was performing a service for which you would normally pay you agree to a business relationship.

If you send a reasonable invoice, you can expect to be paid.

Vanguard

Simple solution... (4, Funny)

emag (4640) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686474)

"$200 an hour, minimum 8 hours"

Re:Simple solution... (5, Funny)

axxackall (579006) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686507)

If you had a problem to find a job all that time - take a payment for all 5 months you've been laid off. At least begin your negotiation from that point.

For a few hours or days of work? (2)

JohnTheFisherman (225485) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686590)

If you could get it, great, but it isn't going to happen. There's a reason this person was laid off - most likely financial, since they were called back to fix a problem - so why would they pay them for all that time?

Why? (4, Insightful)

Banjonardo (98327) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686475)

Why did you do it, if it sounded like a demand?

Actually...fuck 'em (-1, Redundant)

vilms (106676) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686476)

And that's all I have to say on this.

Sucker.... (0)

tha_mink (518151) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686477)

Your name wouldn't be Matt would it? Cause it sounds like you just got walked all over.

Re:Sucker.... (1)

h_haller (626810) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686639)

You must have been watching too much television these days... Especially those network-channel sitcoms, like "In-Laws"...

uh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686481)

You got screwed you jackass. They still view you as a little peon to do their bidding, and you just keep falling for it. Have fun.

Did she pay you? (4, Interesting)

essell (446524) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686482)

You only mentioned that she did not call to thank you.. Did she at least pay you for your time?

charge her. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686484)

what ever the average rate for this sort of work on a "for hire" basis is and send her an invoice. [documenting what you did]
otherewise NEVER work onthe machine again.

well, we all know what happened to Jesus (2, Interesting)

waldo2020 (592242) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686486)

You should have told her to F.O.A.D. Alternately 100$/hr is also a more polite way to say it. If you continue to offer your services for free, it will get around :( Rather depends if you need her as a reference... h

Re:well, we all know what happened to Jesus (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686502)

Fall Over And Die?

Cash on the Barrelhead (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686489)

No receipts, no records

And if the former boss was a hottie, she'd have to suck my dick for a tip

Re:Cash on the Barrelhead (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686550)

Fixed her network for free and then give her a tip for sucking your dick? Man, you're generous!

How about TROLLTAL KING ur XemployER? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686492)


This is pathetic (Score:0)
by gnillort (myslashdotemailaccount@yahoo.com) on Sat
urday November 16, @10:54AM (#4685513)
(User #617577 Info | Last Journal: Wednesday October 23, @07:53PM) Rather than get rid of the influence of Vlad crapflooding and the cabal/AVT/CUNT/CLIT/Klerck crapflooding, yo [slashdot.org]u fata
sses sit here. I have a perfectly good alternative [ezboard.com] all set up. Why not give it a try? [ Reply to This | Parent ] YOOOOU ARE TEH GAY! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @10:42AM (#4685454) In A.D. 2002
Faggotry was beginning.
AV3: What happen?
Phone Boy 1: Somebody pump us up the butt
Phone Boy 2: We get no lubricant
AV3: What!
Phone Boy 2: Main cock turn hard
AV3: It's You!!
Vlad: How are you fagmasters!!
Vlad: All your females are belong to us
Vlad: You are on the way to death by aids
AV3: What you say!!
Vlad: You have no chance to survive smoke your pole
Vlad: HA HA HA HA....
AV3: Take off every 'cockring'
AV3: You know what you doing
AV3: Move 'jizcatcher'
AV3: For great justice
[ Reply to This | Parent ] January 1st, 2003: daily countdown. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @07:01AM (#4684935) The countdown: 45 days [ Reply to This | Parent ] trolltalk srings to life! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @06:49AM (#4684907) who on earth could have brought such a sudden tidal-wave of vitality back to this cruddy excuse for a secret sid? why, momochrome of course! only his brilliance could possibly have re-invigorated such a sad state of degeneracy and breathed new life back into this feeble excuse for a troll collective.

All hail momochrome! [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:trolltalk srings to life! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @06:59AM (#4684931) Also, the "tidal-wave of vitality" had been ongoing for quite some time before Mr. Momochrome became overcome with jealousy that people were talking about someone other than him and thus decided to throw his hat into the ring. He's nothing. A washed-up has-been. Nowadays, who even remembers who Momochrome was? I sure don't fucking remember, and I've been into the Slashdor troll-scene hardcore since before the scene existed. Momochrome was a one-line footnote on page 4,275 of the history of trolling, and most people didn't even bother to read that page, let alone the footnotes.

Momochrome who?? Doesn't ring a bell. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:trolltalk srings to life! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @07:06AM (#4684944) apologies

Apology \A*pol"o*gy\, n.; pl. Apologies. [L. apologia, Gr. ?; ?
from + ?: cf. F. apologie. See Apologetic.] 1. Something said or written in
defense or justification of what appears to others wrong, or of what may be
liable to disapprobation; justification; as, Tertullian's Apology for
Christianity.

It is not my intention to make an apology for my poem; some
will think it needs no excuse, and others will receive none. --Dryden.

2.
An acknowledgment intended as an atonement for some improper or injurious remark
or act; an admission to another of a wrong or discourtesy done him, accompanied
by an expression of regret.

3. Anything provided as a substitute; a
makeshift.

He goes to work devising apologies for window curtains.
--Dickens.

Syn: Excuse.

Usage: An apology, in the original sense
of the word, was a pleading off from some charge or imputation, by explaining
and defending one's principles or conduct. It therefore amounted to a
vindication. One who offers an apology, admits himself to have been, at least
apparently, in the wrong, but brings forward some palliating circumstance, or
tenders a frank acknowledgment, by way of reparation. We make an apology for
some breach of propriety or decorum (like rude expressions, unbecoming conduct,
etc.), or some deficiency in what might be reasonably expected. We offer an
excuse when we have been guilty of some breach or neglect of duty; and we do it
by way of extenuating our fault, and with a view to be forgiven. When an excuse
has been accepted, an apology may still, in some cases, be necessary or
appropriate. ``An excuse is not grounded on the claim of innocence, but is
rather an appeal for favor resting on some collateral circumstance. An apology
mostly respects the conduct of individuals toward each other as equals; it is a
voluntary act produced by feelings of decorum, or a desire for the good opinion
of others.'' --Crabb.

[ Reply to This | Parent ] You idiot. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @06:56AM (#4684925) Momochrome is nothing. Trollaxor is a 5000% better troller than Momochrome is, 300% more intelligent, 1000% more creative, at least 35% more handsome, and he has sex nearly three times as often. Momochrome isn't the king of Trolltalk and never was; the king of Trolltalk has always been Mr. Trollaxor. Other trolls have come and other trolls have gone, but Trollaxor has been running this show this entire time. Idiots. Don't you know who your leader is? You will soon. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Single Jewish bisexual geek-grrl seeks romance. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @05:38AM (#4684788) TROLLTALK PERSONAL ADVERTISEMENTS
YOUR LOVE CONNECTION FOR THE TROLLER SCENE

Single Jewish bisexual geek-grrl seeks seeks friendship, pen-pals, romance, and marriage. Very attractive [att.net]. Into BSDM / watersports / felching. Passions include Socialism, anal sex, and protesting (anything!). I am an excellent Slashdot troller. I've been a writer for reputable and unbiased news-journals such as Indymedia.org, Adequacy.org, and my new weblog, IniquityDaily.com! If you care about any of these things, or if you'd just like to listen to me tell you all about my life for hours on end, or even if you'd just like to get together for some buttfucking, I'd like to hear from you! Male or female, young or old... I can't afford to be picky! (No further inquiries from Scott Lockwood will be accepted, though.)

Write to:
Esther Sassaman
2776 Hampshire Blvd #B1
Cleveland Heights, OH 44106.

Or e-mail me [mailto]. Or call me at (216) 321-3546. I don't get many phone calls, and the last person who called me hung up on me and it made me sad. Hope to hear from you soon!

Love,
Perdida ;-) [ Reply to This | Parent ] Lame (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @10:19AM (#4685368) What are you trying to accomplish by that? Do you want to force her to leave k5 and change her nick? [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:Lame (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @11:34AM (#4685665) That would be nice, actually. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:Single Jewish bisexual geek-grrl seeks romance. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @06:42AM (#4684900) would I ever be this bitter about perdida? only if I couldn't posess her. :( [ Reply to This | Parent ] QwErTyUiOp AsDfGhJkL zXcVbNm 1@3$5^7*9)!2#4%6& (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @05:33AM (#4684777) thank you trooltalk for making me feel "normal" again. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Generous RePOST (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @05:30AM (#4684771) Years ago, I won the battle of the sids, and relegated all the old-guard troll cabal to the obscurity of a clumsy mailing list. I graciously left ?sid=trolltalk to the neophytes and amateurs, as a sort of stomping ground wherein they might practice the craft. Trolltalk survives today as ?sid=20721, and the tradition had continued quite nicely until recently.

Now it appears that inter-factional rivalry is attempting to rear its ugly head. The phoneboy cabal, after such ruthless and base treatment of vlad, in a capacity quite extending beyond that which is decent, breaking the code of troll ethics, our own version of 'honor among thieves', and in fact, quite actually breaking several state and federal anti-trolling laws, have debased this once lovely stomping ground and brought their diseased and perverted notions into the fore. And now they promise to utterly dominate the underworld of our own slashdot! This cannot be allowed to happen.

With Klerck acting as regent during the Geekizoid era (and furthering the art of the troll with skill and finesse, I might add), the slashdot underground moved along nicely, with the occasional hiccough brought on by taco and his feeble anti-trolling efforts.

And so, as your rightful King, I do hereby proclaim an edict: Henceforth, anyone attached to the Phoneboy Cabal is to be considered corpus memento, and is to be treated as such with extreme prejudice.
[ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:Generous RePOST (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @11:36AM (#4685674) Anyone who believes that "honor among trolls" shit is a fucking moron. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:Generous RePOST (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @05:35AM (#4684783) No! Go away! There is no MORMOCRORE in Trolltalk!!! [ Reply to This | Parent ] Single Jewish bisexual geek-grrl seeks romance. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @05:05AM (#4684718) TROLLTALK PERSONAL ADVERTISEMENTS
YOUR LOVE CONNECTION FOR THE TROLLER SCENE

Single Jewish bisexual geek-grrl seeks seeks friendship, pen-pals, romance, and marriage. Very attractive [att.net]. Into BSDM / watersports / felching. Passions include Socialism, anal sex, and protesting (anything!). I am an excellent Slashdot troller. I've been a writer for reputable and unbiased news-journals such as Indymedia.org, Adequacy.org, and my new weblog, IniquityDaily.com! If you care about any of these things, or if you'd just like to listen to me tell you all about my life for hours on end, or even if you'd just like to get together for some buttfucking, I'd like to hear from you! Male or female, young or old... I can't afford to be picky! (No further inquiries from Scott Lockwood will be accepted, though.)

Write to:
Esther Sassaman
2776 Hampshire Blvd #B1
Cleveland Heights, OH 44106.

Or e-mail me [mailto]. Or call me at (216) 321-3546. I don't get many phone calls, and the last person who called me hung up on me and it made me sad. Hope to hear from you soon!

Love,
Perdida [ Reply to This | Parent ] A note for the anti vlad triad (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:27AM (#4684604) Please stop all this fucking klerck crapflooding. I hate it. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:A note for the anti vlad triad (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:31AM (#4684625) Idiot. Klerck is the one doing the crapflooding. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Keeping the trolling going (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:08AM (#4684557) 17 replies. Made it up to five and then back down to one.

Click here for super enjoyment [slashdot.org]. [ Reply to This | Parent ] What do you think you're doing??? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:34AM (#4684641) You can't talk about trolling in here; this is Trolltalk!! [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:Keeping the trolling going (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:26AM (#4684598) this would have been excellent as a troll were it not for the little details. like the inherent truth to what you are saying. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:Keeping the trolling going (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:29AM (#4684617) Trolling with truth. Tyr it sometime. Most of the replies were inflamed unix hippies. Setting their fucking hippy beards on fire. Trying to prove that Unix is the most stable OS evar. Evar. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:Keeping the trolling going (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:42AM (#4684664) that is the simplest form of the troll, almost sub-par. that you got so many bites is merely endemic of 1) the ease of the sendup and B) the lack of real trolling on slashdot these days. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Adequacy reborn? What the fuck? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:05AM (#4684548) What the bloody hell is this?? [iniquitydaily.com] It looks vary lame, whatever it is.

Post 800, by the way. Claimed by teh New True Troll High Council. [ Reply to This | Parent ] pathetic (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @03:17AM (#4684451) all this drama in trolltalk, and not a god damned troll in the regular story threads. wtf? [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:pathetic (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @03:32AM (#4684486) ... and here you are replying to it. VARY pathetic. [ Reply to This | Parent ] VLADEQUACY: LAMER THAN EVAR (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @01:59AM (#4684191) From: #adequacy, 2002.10.1

[perdida] hey guys! look at the 1337 troll i did: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/10/1/21188/7719 [kuro5hin.org]

[perdida] [perdida] jumps up and down, her mammaries flapping thunderously.

[seventypercent] awesome, perdida! that took some cunning!

[perdida] yayyy! LOOK IT GOT *EIGHT* REPLIES!!!

[shoeboy] WOW perdida, that is SO COOL! i really love you perdida! will you please take my virginity?!

[perdida] shoeboy: i am a lesbian and i thought you were having sex with chloedancer.

[shoeboy] that's just the name i gave to my right han... oh, uh... yeah... you are REALLY COOL perdida!

[seventypercent] you guys tell me what you think of this troll: see, i pretend to be a RIGHT WING MANIAC! and i spout all sorts of RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA about stuff that has NO POLITICAL ANGLE!! what do you think??

[shoeboy] WOW! that's why you guys are the masters. i love you guys. i am SO GLAD you let me hang around. ummm, seventypercent, can you move over just a hair so i can get my nose a little deeper into your asshole?

[vladinator] GUYS!!! SOMEBODY HAS CREATED A TOOR ACCOUNT ON MY BSD BOX!! LOLFOFLROLFGLFL! I HAVE BEEN HACKED!! REPEAT: I HAVE BEEN HACKED!!!! PLEASE ADVICE!!!! LOL!!! ROFL!!!!! LOFLGL!!!!

[shoeboy] vlad, you are SO COOL. what time will you be on the twin poles support group channel?

[vladinator] OH, HEY, SHOE. I DON'T KNOW. I'VE GOT TO NAIL THIS HACKER. HE WILL BE SORRY HE HACKED INTO MY SYSTEM! LOLFLFLFOFLELROSLFLFLDLALLLLL!

[shoeboy] WOW. MAN, VLAD YOU ARE SO FUCKING COOL! WHAT MARTIAL ARTS ARE YOU GOING TO USE?

[vladinator] SHOE: HAVE YOU EVER SEEN STEEL MAGNOLIAS? THAT'S THE STYLE OF MARTIAL ARTS I PRACTICE.

[shoeboy] [shoeboy] drools.

[shoeboy] wow vlad. you are SO COOL. i can just imagine your rippling muscles and bulging, hairy chest! YOU are the kind of man i want to be when i grow up!

[vladinator] ROFLLFOGOGLFOWSLDFLFLFLFLOLOLOL!!!!!

[perdida] come on guys, you aren't paying attention to me! did i tell you about my new troll on kuro5hin?

[shoeboy] oh yeah, perdida. that was SO COOL.

[seventypercent] oh yeah, that reminds me! you guys tell me what you think of this troll: see, i pretend to be a RIGHT WING MANIAC! and i spout all sorts of RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA about stuff that has NO POLITICAL ANGLE!! what do you think??

[shoeboy] [shoeboy] sneezes.

[seventypercent] whoaaaa! better warn before you do that, shoe! ;)

[shoeboy] i'm SO SORRY seventy. PLEASE DON'T KICK ME OUT OF YOUR ELITE CLIQUE! i promise to suck you off again tonight!

[seventypercent] [seventypercent] chuckles...

[seventypercent] that's my little bitch.

[shoeboy] hey guys, where's bc? HE IS SO FUCKING COOL!

[vladinator] OH, I THINK HE GOT THROWN IN JAIL FOR RUNNING OVER AN OLD LADY WHILE HE WAS DRUNK! LOFOFOFOFLFLFOFLFOFLFOFLFOFLFOFL!!!!

[vladinator] HEY GUYS!!!! WHAT DOES "RM -RF /" DO? LFOFLFLFLFLFLFLFLGOGLGOGLLL!!!!
[ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:VLADEQUACY: LAMER THAN EVAR (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @02:48AM (#4684357) [11:57] edgemaster# wc -l patch
[11:57] 435 patch
[11:57] Nugget: ha ha, I have yet another freebsd patch
[12:04] yay for drdink
[12:04] * Octal has quit IRC (Client exited)
[12:05] www.zombie.org/watchdog.diff
[12:06] * Octal (~brian@128.101.0.0) has joined #slashdot
[12:06] * ChanServ sets mode +o Octal
[12:06] hmm
[12:07] it is missing a file
[12:07] drdink: cat /dev/zero > file
[12:07] :)
[12:07] You're a fucking comedian.
[12:08] where comedian means lame
[12:08] haha, now youre the comedians
[12:08] there
[12:08] missing file is there now
[12:09] * sporty (~sporty@cloaked.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #slashdot
[12:09] drdink: plain magic?
[12:09] oops
[12:09] * drdink takes out the part that says 'smbd', where he borrowed his rcng script from
[12:15] hmm
[12:16] why did kirk bother to ask for a visual if the monitor is facing the oppocite direction as him?
[ Reply to This | Parent ] IMPORTANT ELECTION NEWS (Score:1)
by gbwd on Saturday November 16, @01:16AM (#4684037)
(User #626693 Info) It turns out that mr. Mratislav Nikolavic did not make the surprising win in the Presidential elections he thought he did. I recently appealed my case to the Troll Supreme Court, and they ordered a recount from the Florida trolls. Y'see, down in Florida they use a system where there are a series of punch holes in the ballot, and the voter sticks his willy through the hole he wants to vote for in order to punch out the "chad". Unfortunately, it appears some [slashdot.org] troll [slashdot.org]'s penises are too small to punch the chads out all the way, which confangled the fancy votin' machines and made it think people was a-votin' for that Serbian gentleman when they meant to vote for me.

SO anyways, to make the long story short, I, George Beauregard Washington Donnely (call me "W" for short :-), am your new, true President of Trolltalk, just like my daddy before me. There will be no more Mormocrore or Vladequacy in trolltalk by the time I'm through cleaning up, nor will there be crapflooding from Mr. Chainrust, McPhairson, Troy Luxor or any of them Anti-Vlad crapfloods. You're either with us or against us, and if you engage in crapflooding or any other form of terrorism against this sid, sir, you are most definitely against us.
[ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:IMPORTANT ELECTION NEWS (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:37AM (#4684646) Scott Lockwood is a fucking pussy faggot longshoreman babysitter. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:IMPORTANT ELECTION NEWS (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:25AM (#4684591) This method of voting automatically ensures that women are not allowed to vote -- excellent. Women's suffrage has ruined politics and turned it into a meaningless battle between competing hairdressers, and tailors. Bah. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:IMPORTANT ELECTION NEWS (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @01:20AM (#4684052) apologies

Apology \A*pol"o*gy\, n.; pl. Apologies. [L. apologia, Gr. ?; ? from + ?: cf. F. apologie. See Apologetic.] 1. Something said or written in defense or justification of what appears to others wrong, or of what may be liable to disapprobation; justification; as, Tertullian's Apology for Christianity.

It is not my intention to make an apology for my poem; some will think it needs no excuse, and others will receive none. --Dryden.

2. An acknowledgment intended as an atonement for some improper or injurious remark or act; an admission to another of a wrong or discourtesy done him, accompanied by an expression of regret.

3. Anything provided as a substitute; a makeshift.

He goes to work devising apologies for window curtains. --Dickens.

Syn: Excuse.

Usage: An apology, in the original sense of the word, was a pleading off from some charge or imputation, by explaining and defending one's principles or conduct. It therefore amounted to a vindication. One who offers an apology, admits himself to have been, at least apparently, in the wrong, but brings forward some palliating circumstance, or tenders a frank acknowledgment, by way of reparation. We make an apology for some breach of propriety or decorum (like rude expressions, unbecoming conduct, etc.), or some deficiency in what might be reasonably expected. We offer an excuse when we have been guilty of some breach or neglect of duty; and we do it by way of extenuating our fault, and with a view to be forgiven. When an excuse has been accepted, an apology may still, in some cases, be necessary or appropriate. ``An excuse is not grounded on the claim of innocence, but is rather an appeal for favor resting on some collateral circumstance. An apology mostly respects the conduct of individuals toward each other as equals; it is a voluntary act produced by feelings of decorum, or a desire for the good opinion of others.'' --Crabb.

[ Reply to This | Parent ] Post #800. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @12:15AM (#4683807) Ate-Hundirt. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Anyone ever notice? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @12:12AM (#4683801) Scott Lockwood is our perfect little Schadenfreude.

- just an observer [ Reply to This | Parent ] ALL WE ARE SAAAAAYING IS GIVE PEACE A CHAAANCE! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:37PM (#4683602) In A.D. 2002 Faggotry was beginning. AV3: What happen ? Phone Boy 1: Somebody pump us up the butt Phone Boy 2: We get no lubricant AV3: What ! Phone Boy 2: Main cock turn hard AV3: It's You !! Vlad: How are you fagmasters !! Vlad: All your females are belong to us Vlad: You are on the way to death by aids AV3: What you say !! Vlad: You have no chance to survive smoke your poleVlad: HA HA HA HA .... AV3: Take off every cockring' AV3: You know what you doing AV3: Move 'jizcatcher'AV3: For great justice
[ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:ALL WE ARE SAAAAAYING IS GIVE PEACE A CHAAANCE! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @12:08AM (#4683786) A.D. 2003: ???
A.D. 2004: Profit! [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:ALL WE ARE SAAAAAYING IS GIVE PEACE A CHAAANCE! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:43PM (#4683646) Non-impressive. [ Reply to This | Parent ] ATTN: TROLLTALK. Want phone sex? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:34PM (#4683580) I'm a hot Jewish geek-grrl, a political leftist, and a troll. And I'm lonely. Call (216) 321-3546 and I'll tell you what I'm wearing. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:ATTN: TROLLTALK. Want phone sex? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @12:10AM (#4683792) Hello. You sound hot. Are you hot? Or not? [ Reply to This | Parent ] THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:25PM (#4683512) In A.D. 2002
Faggotry was beginning.
AV3: What happen ?
Phone Boy 1: Somebody pump us up the butt
Phone Boy 2: We get no lubricant
AV3: What !
Phone Boy 2: Main cock turn hard
AV3: It's You !!
Vlad: How are you fagmasters !!
Vlad: All your females are belong to us
Vlad: You are on the way to death by aids
AV3: What you say !!
Vlad: You have no chance to survive smoke your pole
Vlad: HA HA HA HA ....
AV3: Take off every 'cockring'
AV3: You know what you doing
AV3: Move 'jizcatcher'
AV3: For great justice

[ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:39AM (#4684655) AV4: ???
AV5: Profit! [ Reply to This | Parent ] TEH VLADEQUACY MUST BE PURGED (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:21PM (#4683479) WILLIAM SCOTT LOCKWOOD III ANATOMY OF AN ASSHOLE

And you thought this was just going to be another goats.cx [forkbomb.net] link. Close. During this bloody war with Mr. Lockwood, several interested lookers-on have commented, "Yeah, Vlad is a fat, disgusting piece of shit, but why do you hate him that much?? Do you berate your own feces before you flush it??" This is a question which must be answered. Here, I will present to you just a few reasons for despising William Scott Lockwood III. Read these with an open mind and an eye toward moral clarity and I am certain you will reach the same conclusion that I and others have: Lardinator Has To Go.

This is the face of a child-molestor. [forkbomb.net] It is no coincidence that Lockwood 3's children live all the way on the other side of the country. His wife at the time (just one in a continuous stream of buffalo), could not get her brood far enough away from the cold clammy probing fingers of Lardinator. And knowing what a low-life piece of white-trash her ex-husband is, she knew that Lardo would not spring for so much as a ride in a 67 Mercury Comet to "see" his hell-spawn. Child molestors are generally sexually abused in their own youth. Take a long look at the tortured echos of a deprived childhood. [forkbomb.net]

Crapflooder Extraordinaire [geekizoid.com] (note: I know these are some big words, Scottie. Don't worry your little head about it. Just rest assured you are being exposed for the worthless fuck you are). William Scott Lockwood III used his third-rate troll site Geekizoid [olsentwins.com] to encourage the crap-flooding and general assault of websites he deemed inappropriate. This included a tech site oriented toward females, an animal rights site, child abuse sites (see above paragraph for why Scotty found that one inappropriate), a site aimed at giving advice to troubled teens and various other sites where people generally minded their own business, blissfully unaware of the stinking mound of manure who had eyed them for destruction only to sate his own appetite for power. When the admin of one of those sites (yeah, it was mine) decided to give little Pecker-head a taste of his own shit, it was suddenly a bad thing! Why, he was going to involve the law! He was sending his server logs to EVERYONE in order to figure out who was spanking his little butt good (he never did).

Idiot Supreme. [geekizoid.com] Yep, you read that right, folks. Fatty can't even read his own server logs! And he wants YOU to buy a scoop "server" from him!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! We can see from this old post [rockynewsgroup.org] that Fatty dropped out of high-school. That would explain quite a bit.

Hypocrite Extreme. [zbh.com] Mr. Lardinator has a nasty habit of complaining to those who run message boards. He constantly accused Rob Malda of being a hypocrite (a word Mr. Lardinator can't even spell properly). He has also complained incessantly about K5's Rusty and others. Of course, you now know from the Crapflooding paragraph, that Mr. Lardinator is the biggest (in more ways than one) H Y P O C R I T E of them all.

Well, that's it for now. I can and will post more later, but I will let you digest this in pieces. And please, join the crusade. It is the only way.
[ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:TEH VLADEQUACY MUST BE PURGED (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @01:27AM (#4684085) Entry: egregious
Function: adjective
Definition: very bad
Synonyms: arrant, atrocious, capital, deplorable, extreme, flagrant, glaring, grievous, gross, heinous, infamous, insufferable, intolerable, monstrous, nefarious, notorious, outrageous, outright, preposterous, rank, scandalous, shocking, stark
Antonyms: minor, trivial, petty, little, slight, measly
Concept: immorality
Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0)
Copyright © 2002 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Entry: extreme
Function: adjective
Definition: unreasonable
Synonyms: absolute, desperate, dire, downright, drastic, egregious, exaggerated, exceptional, excessive, extraordinary, extravagant, fabulous, fanatical, flagrant, gross, harsh, immoderate, improper, imprudent, inordinate, intemperate, irrational, nonsensical, out-and-out, outrageous, overkill, preposterous, rabid, radical, remarkable, rigid, severe, sheer, stern, strict, thorough, unbending, uncommon, uncompromising, unconventional, unreasonable, unseemly, unusual, utter, zealous
Antonyms: conventional, normal, moderate, ordinary
Concept: abnormality
Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0)
Copyright © 2002 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Entry: flagrant
Function: adjective
Definition: flaunting
Synonyms: arrant, atrocious, awful, bare-faced, blatant, bold, brazen, capital, conspicuous, crying, disgraceful, dreadful, egregious, enormous, flagitous, flaming, flashy, glaring, grody, gross, hanging out, heinous, hot shot, immodest, infamous, noticeable, notorious, obvious, open, ostentatious, out-and-out, outrageous, rank, scandalous, shameful, shameless, shocking, striking, undisguised, wicked, without shame
Concept: immorality
Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0)
Copyright © 2002 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Entry: foul
Function: adjective
Definition: disgusting
Synonyms: abhorrent, abominable, barn, base, contaminated, despicable, detestable, dirty, disgraceful, dishonorable, egregious, fetid, filthy, hateful, heinous, horrid, icky, impure, infamous, iniquitous, loathsome, malodorous, mucky, nasty, nasty, nauseating, nefarious, noisome, notorious, offensive, offensive, pigpen, polluted, putrid, rank, raunchy, repellent, repulsive, revolting, rotten, scandalous, shameful, squalid, stable, stinking, stinking, sullied, tainted, unclean, vicious, vile, wicked, yecchy, yucky
Concept: dirtiness
Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0)
Copyright © 2002 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Entry: glaring
Function: adjective
Definition: obvious
Synonyms: audacious, blatant, capital, conspicuous, crying, egregious, evident, excessive, extreme, flagrant, gross, inordinate, manifest, noticeable, obtrusive, open, outrageous, outstanding, overt, patent, protrusive, rank, unconcealed, visible
Concept: extent (great)
Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0)
Copyright © 2002 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Entry: great
Function: adjective
Definition: excellent
Synonyms: able, absolute, aces, adept, admirable, adroit, bad, best, brutal, cold, complete, consummate, crack, downright, dynamite, egregious, exceptional, expert, fab, fantastic, fine, first-rate, good, heavy, hellacious, marvellous, masterly, mostest, number one, out-and-out, perfect, positive, proficient, skilled, skillful, super dupe, surpassing, terrific, total, tough, transcendant, tremendous, unmitigated, unqualified, utter, wonderful, zero cool
Concept: superiority
Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0)
Copyright © 2002 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Entry: grievous
Function: adjective
Definition: painful
Sy

Read the rest of this comment... by
[ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:TEH VLADEQUACY MUST BE PURGED (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:30PM (#4683547) Um, that old post says he quit school, got his GED and went to college... How is that a bad thing? [ Reply to This | Parent ] THE TRUTH REVEALED (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:18PM (#4683466) In A.D. 2002
Faggotry was beginning.
AV3: What happen ?
Phone Boy 1: Somebody pump us up the butt
Phone Boy 2: We get no lubricant
AV3: What !
Phone Boy 2: Main cock turn hard
AV3: It's You !!
Vlad: How are you fagmasters !!
Vlad: All your females are belong to us
Vlad: You are on the way to death by aids
AV3: What you say !!
Vlad: You have no chance to survive smoke your pole
Vlad: HA HA HA HA ....
AV3: Take off every 'cockring'
AV3: You know what you doing
AV3: Move 'jizcatcher'
AV3: For great justice
[ Reply to This | Parent ] Okay, Mr. Lockwood. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:32PM (#4683563) You really do have your heart set on fucking things up for yourself, don't you? We have the writing analysis scripts that can tell us exactly who posted any message. This is going to be your vary last warning. You get to choose the path that your life takes from here on out. It's up to you now. The ball's in your court. Post one more message, and the entire deal is off. Go ahead. We were almost certain that you'd never be able to stick to any agreement, because you are not a man of honor, but we wanted to give you a chance, so that when you fucked things up for yourself it wouldn't be anybody's fault but your own.

Go ahead. I'm waiting. Tell Mr. Corrigan we said hello, also. Unmask gave a 96% probability of him being a match on a comment that was posted here earlier. Nice try, though. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Okay, AV3, OSM, Craig and Trollaxor. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:43PM (#4683650) Let's call a spade a spade. You're not keeping up with your end of the bargan. The police will be called at the next phone call. Using a cloned cell will only make them look for you harder. You want to play the fucking game? Let's play. YOU broke the agreement not Scott. He's sitting right here next to me, with his fists clenched, wanting very badly to respond to this in person but he won't - because HE DID keep his word. You did not. How so?

Specifically:

The individuals who spoke to Mr. Lockwood on the telephone on Nov 4 2002 at approximately 2355, shall, of their own free will:

3. Notify other affiliated parties who have grudges against Mr. Lockwood and compel them to comply with this agreement as well.

End of the fucking message.

-- Dave [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:Okay, AV3, OSM, Craig and Trollaxor. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @12:07AM (#4683782) 4. ???
5. Profit! [ Reply to This | Parent ] Bullshit. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @12:06AM (#4683777) Yawn. Not buying it, "Dave". I can't tell you how we know, but we know. We have independent confirmation on a lot of your recent goings-on. We can't compromise our sources, but we do have them. And we did notify all affiliated parties, and they were in agreement. Sorry if a few random posts by a few random nobodies with no connection to us caused you to make the decision to abandon the entire agreement and make things considerably worse for yourself.

I can guarantee you that you won't see another message about yourself if you can restrain yourself from loading Trolltalk. You're loading Trolltalk of your own free will. There was damn near no mention of you here for a week and a half until you decided to start posting again and ruin everything for yourself. You're talking really big when you don't even know who we are.

I said everything I had to say in my last comment in your Pinkerton Floyd sid, which you obviously didn't think it would be worth your time to read. Go read it. I'm not going to dignify any more of your messages with a response.

There's still time to compromise on this. Here are some new terms, take them or leave them, no negotation:

You stay off of Slashdot. That means Scott, "Dave", etc, or anyone in the entire damn household. We will run writing analysis scripts to check. Don't even read it. Don't even load the front page. Don't even visit Trolltalk. Don't even resolve the IP address. Stay off of Slashdot. And we'll never mention you again. We'll forget you exist. We can't control the actions of anyone else, but I imagine most everyone else will forget about you also if you stop intruding where you aren't wanted.

Just go away. Things were peaceful for everybody here for a week and a half until you started posting on Trolltalk again. You fucked it up. If you want it un-fucked, go away.

Do you think I'm joking? Do I sound like I'm joking? You've consistently lied, cheated, and bullshitted your way through life, Scott. Is it even in your capacity to be honest? I doubt it.

'nuff said. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:Bullshit. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @10:29AM (#4685397) You're the ones who need to do a reality check here. You're not complying with the agreement. The Agreement states that you would control all posting. The "thing" that started all of this was the announcement of the deal here in trolltalk.

It's up to YOU to keep the deal. The deal says NOTHING about anyone in the household reading trolltalk. There will be NO new deal without voice contact from a REGULAR phone during normal hours. HOLD UP YOUR END, because we already ARE holding up ours.

I don't know, and don't care WHAT someone else has told you, we've shot straight with you from the word go.

You have the nerve to commit a felony harrassing my family (yes, Scott and I are related) and then question his honnesty? You must have balls the size of grapefruit.

We warned that if the calls resume, the OTHER promise you were given (that you would be hunted down by the law) will become a reality. The taps are in place. Fuck with us one more time, and there won't be a peaceful solution.

-- Dave [ Reply to This | Parent ] TEH VLADEQUACY MUST BE PURGED (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:11PM (#4683437)

It is time to set the record straight regarding the situation with respect to Vladinator/JCB/Reza/Lonesome Cowboy Burt/Whatever other aliases he may be using. The situation has been confused due to the recent world-wide influx of Vlad-haters, helper-cells, interested third parties and the occasional Vlad sympathizer [kuro5hin.org].

Let us start with a basic tenet of the Association of Anti-Vlad Avengers: There is no difference between William Scott Lockwood III and those who aid him, give him comfort, and/or use him as a substandard, "Always Save" hosting solution. Though we may have no direct quarrel with you, Mr. "Trollaxor", you appear to be friendly with Mr. Lockwood and - by your own admission - are using him as a substandard "Always Save" hosting solution. Consider the fact that if you were using a respectable host for your web site, you would not be having the difficulties you are having now. Also, with this attempt at ferreting out information for Mr. Lockwood, you are aiding and abetting our sworn enemy and have aligned yourself in direct oposition to a powerful internet force (that is, the AAA and its splinter groups).

This brings us to a primary characteristic of the AAA which has been detailed elsewhere, but which I will repeat here in interest of completeness: no single cell, as an entity, is aware of the members of any other cell. The structure of our association works as follows. Each cell is composed of no more and no less than three members who all reside in a roughly similar geographic area. One of the three members is designated as a messenger. This messenger is the only member in contact with a messenger from exactly two other cells. In this way, the members of each cell remain anonymous to the members of any other cell. If a messenger has been compromised, the corresponding cell is responsible for "cleansing" that messenger and replacing him or her with a new messenger. Such a cell will remain on probation - meaning they will only be allowed contact with a single other cell - until such time as the new messenger has been operating for no less than six months.

Our activities are clandestine and even if another cell wanted to share the information you request, it would not be able to because it would not be privy to said information.

As you can see the AAA, though very loosely connected, operates in a highly efficient manner and is deadly serious about the stated goals of the organization: namely, the complete, unconditional eradication of Vladinator, in any and all forms, from the internet.

We have been following the current situation with Vladinator's hosting service quite closely and we estimate the damages to be severe at this point. However, we cannot agree to end our champaign any sooner than already decided upon. We may have shown mercy in this, our second major attack, if Mr. Lockwood had shown the proper degree of humility at our hands. Instead, Mr. Lockwood responded with his usual barrage of lies [kuro5hin.org] and vitriol [kuro5hin.org]. For this reason, and the fact that we are otherwise bored, we have extended the length of this attack. We realize that Mr. Lockwood's hosting company will try various tricks to deflect our attack, things such as firewalls and IP banning. Eventually, they will succeed in eliminating the current attack at which point we will rest for a period of not less than seven days prior to initiating another attack.

We predict that the end of this second wave will result in another round of cockiness from Mr. Lockwood, given the highly reactionary character that he is. The next attack, which will be the "third wave", will be far more subtle than the current attack and will undoubtedly shake Mr. Lockwood's faith in his current alliances and dealings. This cycle of attack/end attack/Lockwood gets

Read the rest of this comment... by
[ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:TEH VLADEQUACY MUST BE PURGED (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @01:25AM (#4684076) egregious

\E*gre"gious\ (?; 277), a. [L. egregius; lit., separated or chosen from the herd, i. e., distinguished, excellent; e out + grex, gregis, herd. See Gregarious.] Surpassing; extraordinary; distinguished (in a bad sense); -- formerly used with words importing a good quality, but now joined with words having a bad sense; as, an egregious rascal; an egregious ass; an egregious mistake.

The egregious impudence of this fellow. --Bp. Hall.

His [Wyclif's] egregious labors are not to be neglected. --Milton.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

egregious

adj : conspicuously and outrageously bad or reprehensible; "a crying shame"; "an egregious lie"; "flagrant violation of human rights"; "a glaring error"; "gross ineptitude"; "gross injustice"; "rank treachery" [syn: crying(a), flagrant, glaring, gross, rank]

[ Reply to This | Parent ] We are most Royally Displeased! (Score:1)
by MOMOCROME on Friday November 15, @10:55PM (#4683368)
(User #207697 Info) Years ago, I won the battle of the sids, and relegated all the old-guard troll cabal to the obscurity of a clumsy mailing list. I graciously left ?sid=trolltalk to the neopphytes and amateurs, as a sort of stomping ground wherein they might practice the craft. Trolltalk survives today as ?sid=20721, and the tradition had continued quite nicely until recently.

With Klerck acting as regent during the Geekizoid era (and furthering the art of the troll with skill and finesse, I might add), the slashdot underground moved along nicely, with the occasional hiccough brought on by taco and his feeble anti-trolling efforts.

Now it appears that inter-factional rivalry is attempting to rear its ugly head. The phoneboy cabal, after such ruthless and base treatment of vlad, in a capacity quite extending beyond that which is decent, breaking the code of troll ethics, our own version of 'honor among thieves', and in fact, quite actually breaking several state and federal anti-trolling laws, have debased this once lovely stomping ground and brought their diseased and perverted notions into the fore. And now they promise to utterly dominate the underworld of our own slashdot! This cannot be allowed to happen.

And so, as your rightful King, I do hereby proclaim an edict: Henceforth, anyone attached to the Phoneboy Cabal is to be considered corpus memento, and is to be treated as such with extreme prejudice. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Troll ethics? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @05:40AM (#4684792) Any troller with "ethics" is no troller at all. Ethics keep a person weak and stupid. Being a troller is about being strong and powerful. You can't reach your full potential until you abandon any concept of ethics, decency, and morality. That's why we are strong, and you are weak and stupid. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Who the fuck are you? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @12:57AM (#4683977) You are not relevant. Go away. [ Reply to This | Parent ] IAWTP (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:27AM (#4684609) I Agree With This Post! ;-) [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:IAWTP (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @06:40AM (#4684892) big suprise! you agree with providing shit sucking rim jobs and his scrotal fungus, too. thanks for playing though. [ Reply to This | Parent ] GOD DAMMIT MORMOCRORE (Score:1)
by gbwd on Saturday November 16, @12:51AM (#4683956)
(User #626693 Info) I am George Beauregard Washington Donnely, President of Trolltalk, son of former President George Beauregard Donnely, and I say there is NO MORMOCRORE IN TROLLTALK. Get your ass outa here or else we'll invade your little backwater website [shits-r-us.com] and institute a regime change. The Axis of Evil will not survive in this place. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:GOD DAMMIT MORMOCRORE (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @03:08AM (#4684421) a pale imitation of the father does not a leader make, my dear little one. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:We are most Royally Displeased! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @12:47AM (#4683937) why don't you go peel out in your mustang and shut the fuck up. fat ass. [ Reply to This | Parent ] The battle for the future of trolling beings... (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:14PM (#4683447) We have an exciting match for you today, ladies and gentlemen:

In the blue corner:

Has-been no-talent hacks, operating under the name Vladequacy. Those of Adequacy who didn't flee before the ship sank. Their allies, long-term Kings Of The Krapflooders and sworn enemies of Slashdot Trolling: William Scott "Pinkrectum Floyd" Lockwood III and MOMOCHROME. They've tried to destroy trolling on Slashdot for years... will they succeed?

In the red corner:

The Slashdot Trollers, the heirs of the k22320inchfan ideal, and the guardians of the future. The True Slashdot Trollers. Heirs of a great legacy that came into being nearly five years ago, and the people who have kept trolling alive through the long Dark Ages of Geekizoid and Adequacy. The best and the brightest former Adequists, who fled the ship before it sunk and now fight for justice against their former comrades who have given up on trolling by making a pact with evil itself. The best new trollers on the Slashdot scene, as well as wise old veterans who are finally taking sides in this, the final conflict.

My money is on the red corner. I'm betting that Vladequacy will be TKO'd in the third round. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:The battle for the future of trolling beings... (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @01:22AM (#4684066) apologies

Apology \A*pol"o*gy\, n.; pl. Apologies. [L. apologia, Gr. ?; ? from + ?: cf. F. apologie. See Apologetic.] 1. Something said or written in defense or justification of what appears to others wrong, or of what may be liable to disapprobation; justification; as, Tertullian's Apology for Christianity.

It is not my intention to make an apology for my poem; some will think it needs no excuse, and others will receive none. --Dryden.

2. Anything provided as a substitute; a makeshift.

3. An acknowledgment intended as an atonement for some improper or injurious remark or act; an admission to another of a wrong or discourtesy done him, accompanied by an expression of regret.

He goes to work devising apologies for window curtains. --Dickens.

Syn: Excuse.

Usage: An apology, in the original sense of the word, was a pleading off from some charge or imputation, by explaining and defending one's principles or conduct. It therefore amounted to a vindication. One who offers an apology, admits himself to have been, at least apparently, in the wrong, but brings forward some palliating circumstance, or tenders a frank acknowledgment, by way of reparation. We make an apology for some breach of propriety or decorum (like rude expressions, unbecoming conduct, etc.), or some deficiency in what might be reasonably expected. We offer an excuse when we have been guilty of some breach or neglect of duty; and we do it by way of extenuating our fault, and with a view to be forgiven. When an excuse has been accepted, an apology may still, in some cases, be necessary or appropriate. ``An excuse is not grounded on the claim of innocence, but is rather an appeal for favor resting on some collateral circumstance. An apology mostly respects the conduct of individuals toward each other as equals; it is a voluntary act produced by feelings of decorum, or a desire for the good opinion of others.'' --Crabb.

[ Reply to This | Parent ] You are history, old man. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @10:58PM (#4683379) Your time is in the distant past. Nobody follows you anymore. You have no power. You have nothing. You know nothing. You ARE nothing. You aren't even a Troller. We are the Trollers. We're in charge here. Pull down your pants and bend over. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:You are history, old man. (Score:1)
by gbwd on Saturday November 16, @12:54AM (#4683960)
(User #626693 Info) None of my citizens will call themselves "Trollers". We are Trolls, plain and simple. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:You are history, old man. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:06PM (#4683410) s/The/Teh/gi

J00 ar3 vary g4y pls die tnx!!! [ Reply to This | Parent ] Trolltalk post #777. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @10:36PM (#4683282) The number of God (who is us). [ Reply to This | Parent ] Final warning to Vladequacy. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @10:28PM (#4683239) An amnesty is being extended to those with Adequacy affiliations, and others who may wish to save themselves from what is to come. You are being given one final chance to join teh winning team and avoid destruction. On January 1st, 2003, you can witness history in teh making and be forevar remembered as a part of teh greatest revolution in teh history of Trolling. Or you can be ground into dust by teh jackboot of obscurity, relegated to teh dustbins of trolling history as teh non-person has-beens you currently are.

Do you know where teh momentum lies? Do you know where teh power lies? Do you know who hold teh winning cards in his hand? It's not you. Years ago, maybe. Not anymore. You think that you are k22320inchfan. You aren't. Not anymore. Teh k22320inchfan essence was taken from you long ago. You nevar even noticed when its rightful heir walked off with it; you just slipped gradually into mediocrity and boredom. K22320inchfan is being held elsewhere, in secret, guarded by people who know how to use it. You don't have it anymore. We do. We are teh k22320inchfan, not you. We have teh power, not you. We will survive, not you.

This will be your only warning.

Join us or die. CAN you do any less?

Interesting Question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686494)

If the outage was related to a mistake on your part, I would think you would be a least morally obligated to correct it. Otherwise, what's to stop someone from hosing the entire network and then quitting?

You should have billed them. (4, Informative)

helixblue (231601) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686498)

I woulda just billed em. The RAID crashed at the place I had been laid off from last, and the only admin just had a cyst removed from his shoulder so he couldn't type. In a panic, they gave me a call.

I had already gotten a new job, but I was happy to work with em on an evening, for $70/hr :) Got everything back within 45 minutes, spent another half hour "stress testing" the RAID, and I was off.

I mean, I would have at least charged them $10/hr. if I was you :)

Be Polite (4, Interesting)

BurritoWarrior (90481) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686499)

A polite, "I'm sorry, but my current schedule precludes me from being able to help" works for me.

Of course, if you want/need the work, then just go do it at whatever rate you think is fair. Just bite your lip and don't comment one way or the other, it only leads to problems.

Re:Be Polite (2)

WolfWithoutAClause (162946) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686580)

Of course, if you want/need the work, then just go do it at whatever rate you think is fair.

I'd hold out for unfair compensation if the boss sounds desparate. Contractors rates times desperation factor sounds about right.

I've been (close to) there... (4, Interesting)

coene (554338) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686500)

Make sure you get paid! Is she your close friend? If so, you could be nice. If not, bill them! I would suggest billing for the time you spent there to fix this incident as well, it will send a clear signal. IT support is NOT free.

Re:I've been (close to) there... (3, Interesting)

sprzepiora (160561) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686562)

i wanted to moderate this one up, however I feel I need to comment on it.
You see I'm am on the opposite end of this situation.
We recently layed off quite a number of our staff lately and I am left with one other employee in my department.
Before the others left, as they were filling me in on where they left off
I had asked if I could contact them via email to ask questions. Everyone of them said yes, and I wouldn't have been angry if they said no either.
I will note that I have asked questions from email or AIM and gotten answers and nobody was angry about it either.

Re:I've been (close to) there... (4, Insightful)

npietraniec (519210) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686628)

It's one thing to send out an email. It's another to have the guy come into the place and rebuild a server or something.

Thank you for using ACME Consulting (4, Funny)

Sc00ter (99550) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686503)

Thank you for calling on the services of ACME Consuling.. Here is my bill for 3hrs (min.) of work at $150/hr.. Please pay the total amount of $450 by the end of the month or there will be an added interest charge of 15% per week after that.

Happened to me too (5, Funny)

Arctic Fox (105204) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686506)

Woke up one morning to an email from a former boss wanting "information about the current SCADA applications" at a place I worked for while under his employ.
That was pretty bad.
Then he said, "Sorry for sending it to you so early in the morning, I need it for a lunch meeting".
It was actually a sales pitch at lunch.
I was pissed, but that didn't set me off.
He sent the email with a HIGH PRIORITY MS Outlook flag, so it had a red ! in my Inbox. !!!!
I debated sending a nasty flaming message regarding compensation for my time, etc.
Then I looked at my clock. 1PM.. Oops. Woke up too late to help you pal.

Offtopic (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686508)

beeb? Jesus?? BEHOOVE???

Re: Helping Your Ex-Employer? (2, Insightful)

Bob Bitchen (147646) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686510)

You didn't say if you billed them. YOu make it sound as if you did it gratis, free, no charge. That would be a big mistake. Otherwise of course you would do work for your old company if they're going to pay you. As with any contract work the fee charged has to make sense. It has to cover your expenses. Medical, transportation, other administrative overhead costs, the going rate for someone with your expertise. And there's no problem in charging a little more if you're familiar with their network. That's simply supply and demand. Work is work. And if you're currently not working any legal work is fair game. Right?

Installation-specific questions (5, Insightful)

thinmac (98095) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686511)

In any situation, no matter how well you document what you do, there are going to be a few things that are both specific to your particular setup and not something anyone else at the company knows. I suppose this would be less of a problem the larger your staff is, i.e. how many people there were doing the same job you were. In cases where this is an issue, I think it's pretty reasonable for your boss to call and ask questions, although I think it would be equally reasonable to not answer if you held a lot of enmety towards said boss. If you left on good terms (which it didn't sound like was the case in the post), then the friendly thing to do is give an answer. If they want you to come over and spend time on a problem, then by all means get paid, but if it's just a quick query, then helping them out seems reasonable.

They need you? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686512)

I would make sure that there's enough in it for me to compensate for the likely event that they use my on-demand service to save money, which means they only pay me for the peak performance and want to keep me on hold without compensation for the rest of the time. That means, you should demand enough to cover the expected unemployed downtime between events which make your work necessary.

One way... (5, Funny)

fruity1983 (561851) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686515)

If she doesn't pay you, or get you into any kind of employment situation, post her company's webpage on slashdot!

Re:One way... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686626)

Surely someone will mod this from "funny" to "insightful".

Me too (-1)

cachimaster (127194) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686517)

My ex-boss callme for exactly the same. But he ask very carefully

Only If (0, Insightful)

ballsmccoy (304705) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686519)

1. You get paid a kick ass amount for it.

2. There is a chance you will get the job back.

3. She's hot, and she's willing to give you some special time in her office afterwards with the blinds closed. - This would be the main reason.

Re:Only If (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686618)

4. ???

5. Profit!

Can you be bought for good? (1)

Epsillon (608775) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686521)

I hear a lot of this in this industry. Employers seem to think because they have an NDA or NCA over your head you are theirs even after they terminate your contract. My question is this: When do you cease to be company property? Had it been me I would have made it quite clear that, yes, I would be willing to bring up the company LAN that you are losing money on while it is down. I will, of course, require some of this money for my time and a simple word. Please.

Re:Can you be bought for good?-You can't run. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686617)

" I hear a lot of this in this industry. Employers seem to think because they have an NDA or NCA over your head you are theirs even after they terminate your contract."

I've never read ANY legal document that said that your responsible for your former employers equipment, beyond the usual "you'll not seek revenge" type of stuff. So are there any legal documents that do require a former employee to be responsible for previous equipment, and are they legal?

Did the poster at least ask for a reach-around? (1)

rhombic (140326) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686640)

Your responsibilities to them end the minute you and your box walk out the front door on lay-off day. After that, it's their problem. If it's knowledge that you and only you have, then they're going to have to pay an aweful lot to get that out of your head, won't they?

Unfortunately, companies today have no loyalty to their employees. That's all well and good, but they need to realize that the reciprocal is has become true-- employees need have no loyalty at all to their company.

Office Space (0)

dicepackage (526497) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686524)

This guy sounds like Milton from Office Space, getting pushed around all the time. Maybe we will hear someone on slashdot asking for legal advice after setting the building ablaze.

I was in this situation (1)

husker_man (473297) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686528)

Well, I was in a similar situation (got gipped out of ~$4000 by my previous employer, but had no effective way to sue the jerk from out of state).

The head honcho called me up after his last "business" went south and thus unable to pay me what they owed me. He called up asking for help on his sendmail configuration, and I did help him - at the tune of $100/hour.

Did I ever help him again? No, but the guy does have a track record - 80% of his business ventures have now failed, and the other 20% haven't been very successful either.

I've had this happen.... (3, Insightful)

Slashdotess (605550) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686532)

but I am a good friend of my ex-boss... as for you, well, if you enjoyed doing it and you had nothing else better to do. If this boss understood your character and everything wouldn't they be great as a professional resource for another job or something? The author makes it seem like this is 100% bad but you have to look on the brighter side of things.

How much? (3, Interesting)

yamla (136560) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686535)

How much did you get paid? You were hired as an independent contractor here. Contractors normally get paid twice what they'd get paid as an employee. After all, they have to pay their own benefits, etc. etc. So let's say you were getting $60K a year, the minimum you should get paid for your work here is $60 an hour. But you might want to look at getting more than that. After all, they clearly think only you had the necessary skills here.

If somehow you didn't get paid this time but you didn't explicitly say you were doing this work for free, draft up a bill and send it to them. Hey, it can't hurt.

Well, I'll tell you what I did! (0, Troll)

Matt2000 (29624) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686538)


I went straight to Slashdot and posted a story about my personal life that somehow became "Stuff that matters." Then a whole bunch of other passive aggressive nerds chimed in to tell me how they'd taken down the whole network remotely while sticking a cowboy beebop DVD up their ass.

So to summarize, send her an invoice.

This is kinda obvious (2)

quantax (12175) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686543)

Business is business. Its not like you said, 'Oh sure, I will do skilled computer work for you for free.' Send her an invoice at your hourly rate, and thats it. This question is kinda pointless as it seems an open & shut case, but are there other details missing? Otherwise, its simple service -> payment scenerio.

A Relevant Comic... (1)

kmactane (18359) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686545)

See Absurd Notions, page 4 [absurdnotions.org] , the last three comics on the page.

For an actual response to the question... like many others have said, I assume you were doing this for money, not for free, right? If it's for money, then I don't see any problem. They get what they want (their network fixed), you get what you want (to be paid), everyone's happy.

If, OTOH, your ex-boss was demanding that you donate your time and effort for free, then I can't see any reason not to just laugh in her face.

I'm in the same boat. (5, Insightful)

interstellar_donkey (200782) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686548)

After three years of always having me to call on to take care of anything IT related, I think they have just gotten used to it.

The first time after I left (I actually quit, was not laid off) that I got the call, I think I handled it the best way possible.

You tell them 'I'd love to help you out. You know I am consulting on my own now, right?'

Explain to them that you are your own business. Find a price that is fair... not unreasonably high, but something that is in a solid ballpark. I settled on twice of what I made hourly for the company. When you consider that a:) you are now going to have to pay additional social security as an independant consultant and are having to pay the costs of your own benifits (health care, etc.), and b:) You don't have a full time job, so a little extra is worth having.

Good luck to you. Remember, you don't work for them anymore. Of course you don't want to mean or vicious to them (to burn your bridges), just be freindly and professional. If you feel that you have some personal obligation to help them out, remember that when they let you go, it was 'just business' to them. Treat them the same way.

Good luck

seriously.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686553)

you could have spent your time better, like playing suikoden on the PS2 or even better, staring at a blank wall. You have to bill people for work, otherwise down the line you'll be reading 'Codependent No more'. If yuo want to do some more free work, I can point you at some old employers. Maybe they can pay you in stock warrants. The best thing to do would have been to do an onsite call, then secretly take a shit in the server room. that would have been great.

Send a consultant greeting card - big fat bill (5, Interesting)

tuoppi (415801) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686554)

Basic case handling fee: $500,00
Case study: $280
Rapid deployment fee: $843,00
8 workhours: 8 * $184,00 = $1472
Non-office hours: 4 * $380,00 = $1520
Travel expenses: 43 miles * $2/mile = $86,00
TOTAL: $4701

TO BE PAID: $4701 + taxes
DUE: TODAY

Your previous boss didn't ask for price. That means, he is prepared to pay anything.

Send her a bill mate (1)

Eusebo (24544) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686557)

Send them a bill for services rendered.

Include detail regarding what task your performed and how long it took. Make sure your hourly rate is *at least* equivalent to what you were paid while under their employ. If they don't pay, take them to small claims court.

It may sound spiteful, but if you don't get paid for your work they're gonna keep doing this to you. (Why pay for the cow when you can get the milk for free?)

Profit is not a dirty word (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686559)

It doesn't pay to burn bridges, especially if they need something that you can provide. It also doesn't pay to do things for free. What were you thinking doing pro-bono work for an individual that doesn't respect you? Besides not getting paid did you even think about the liability of tinkering with someone else's network? It certainly doesn't pay to screw people over but your approach to this situation was just plain stupid. I hope you learn from this and react differently in the future.

Sounds like she is still blaming you! (2, Insightful)

dasspunk (173846) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686560)

Sounds like she is still blaming you for her network problems and expected you to solve it even though you aren't there anymore. Pretty ballsy... Also, you don't mention if you were laid off, fired or just quit. That information would contribute to the "how burned you just got" question.

Set Your Rate First (5, Informative)

hyperizer (123449) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686569)

The perfect time to negotiate your hourly rate would have been while the "entire corporate LAN was down." But if you did end up doing the work pro bono, at least your old boss will know she can count on you in the future. Next time make sure to work out the terms ahead of time.

If you end up doing a lot of consulting work, you're going to have to get a business license and (depending on the state) get a tax ID number. Here's a pretty basic article [alistapart.com] about setting up a consulting business (although it's aimed at Web developers).

Opportunity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686572)

I had something similar happen a couple of years ago.

I had been contracting for a large insurance firm and had ended the contract myslef about 5 years ago. I stayed on good terms with the IT director though.

About two years ago I got a harried email asking if I could urgently help them to sort out a network security problem.

After a polite phone call (in which I made it clear what my consulting rates are) I went in and sorted out their problems. A nice few thousand quid for a couple of days work.

Since then I've had fairly regular calls from them culminating in them taking a support contract with me a little over a year ago the profits from which have allowed me to fund projects that I would otherwise not have been able to launch.

When something like this happens consider it as a business opportunity. Perhaps you'll get nothing more than a few hundred $ in which case you've lost nothing. On the other hand it can turn into a long term opportunity without the hassle of being employed by the company - of course your fees need to reflect the real cost of carrying out the work and that basis.

Retread (2)

SuiteSisterMary (123932) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686575)

Everybody else has said this, but I'll say it as well; they are a business seeking a service, and you are somebody capable of giving that service. That means renumeration for time and expertise, and that means you bill them. They're a business, and it's as simple as that.

It also means you get something in at least an email saying that they've agreed to your rates. That means you bring a time sheet, fill it out, and get them to sign it before you leave. If they don't sign it, undo all the work you just did.

Passwords....... (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686576)

If whatever you helped with involved having passwords to sensitive information that you had access to while working there, you might want to "forget" those passwords.. They may be looking for someone to take a fall for a break in...

I had one ex-employer, several months after I had quit, call me and ask for some passwords for their main development server... Mind you that half the office knew the passwords to the server, so its not like I was the only one.. There's no way I was going to say that I knew the passwords..

Heres my story.... (1)

Lispy (136512) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686578)

back when i started out as a phone supporter in 1994 i worked as a freelance and really wanted to be employed by this company. But all over sudden they told me to leave and i went out and signed in another company for much better conditions.
But as they say you always meet twice. So i went to the munich oktoberfest and ran into my bosses boss. He was really wasted and when he heard my story he got angry and must have called my former chief. Well, finally my old boss called me in again and it was my pleasure to hear him beg me to come back. Needless to say i didnt, but it was true fun. Now im self-employed and work for his firm from time to time...but i cash in pretty much and i guess he hates my bills... ;-)

cu,
Lispy

Liability? (4, Insightful)

travail_jgd (80602) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686583)

I'm just wondering what can happen to a "good samaritan" in terms of liability. If you hadn't been able to fix the network, or if some malware (virus, trojan) shows up sometime in the near future, what's to stop them from coming after you with a team of attack lawyers? While it's unlikely, if somebody was willing to make a demand of you like that, I wouldn't be surprised if they were willing to play pass-the-buck if something unfortunate happens.

While I admire you for following your beliefs, I don't know that I would have done the same. Only if the livelihood of my friends at the company were jeopardized would I go for it -- or if the money was exceptional.

Hope you got paid. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686584)

If you didn't get paid you are a fool. You boss was getting paid to sit on the phone and bug you for help, you should have been paid for coming up with the solution. If you didn't ask for money, then take it as a lesson.

Nortel Networks (4, Interesting)

Cheese Cracker (615402) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686586)

I was laid off on a Thursday, and the HR person at Nortel told me that I wasn't required to do any more work. Despite this, my manager called me the next day and told me to help them out with one of their online tools. Just like you, I'm sometimes a little bit too kind and helped her out anyway, because I felt that I needed the reference from them in order to get another job. Looking back, I regret helping her... after all, she was the one to put me on the hit list. Anyway, she got laid off three months after me, and I'm running my own business now.

Too small a community to burn bridges (1)

MarcQuadra (129430) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686588)

I live in Providence, RI. It's too small a community to not help people out around here. I do work for ex employers all the time, they pay me, the job gets done, and I get excellent references when I look for better opportunities.

Anticipate this in advance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686591)

Whenever I end a contract or switch jobs, I send a polite letter to my direct supervisor - and their direct as well.

Regardless of the circumstances, I thank them for the opportunity of having worked with them, blah, blah, blah ...

And I include a paragraph outlining my skillset, and offering future services "at the rate of $150/hr + expenses".

I've had a few calls over the years. Some have tried to weedle me out of my fee with the 'ol "can I just ask you a few questions?" line. I always answer this with a standard "maybe in a few days, I'm working on something kindof important right now".

A few have agreed to pay. A few have told me to go take a flying leap (or more colorful words to that effect) One told me to f-off, and that if I didn't get my ass down there right away they'd sue me because they were sure it was my fault in the first place. I received a call two weeks later from that person's boss asking me nicely to consider helping out. I agreed, but demanded payment up-front at a higher rate "for all of the nastiness". I got what I wanted, including having my orignal supervisor "off premises" for the entirety of the rebuild.

Similar Situation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686592)

I work for an IT shop, where one of our primary vendors was in the process of moving out of the country. We were assigned a new programmer who not only had a steep learning curve of our customized site, but he could barely speak English to boot. We had our manager threaten the vendor with breach of contract and the withholding of payment. Vendor was forced to contract the programmer who was originally let go (at a much higher rate).

Easy answers.. (2)

EvilStein (414640) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686595)

1)We hope you got paid.. either cash, some hot lovin from the cute interns, or you at least walked out with a router or something.

2)Bill them appropriately.

3)Contact your old boss and see if things are still up & running. Never hurts to keep up somewhat decent relations with the old employer.

it's a management problem (1)

RaymondRuptime (596393) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686597)

If the management of your former company did not see fit to keep the personnel they need to meet their business needs, it's really their problem, not yours. Helping them only puts you in the role of "enabler". If a friend of mine calls--whether they're at my former company or somewhere else--I always help them via phone or e-mail; but if it's an ex-boss calling on behalf of the company, I tell them that I cannot afford the liability of providing services to them without a contractual agreement.

Charge 'em (2)

sg3000 (87992) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686602)

I'll add my "you shoulda billed 'em" charge to the rest. However, if you didn't negotiate that beforehand, it may look a little sleazy to bill them afterwards. And in my experience, you always meets your business associates later in your career.

Yes, your former boss had no business asking for your free time to help them after they laid you off, but if you agreed to help them at no charge (hoping for some consideration from them), then you might be stuck. Sending them a bill now might just turn your goodwill into bad since that's the last impression she would have of you.

I had a similar situation happen to me once. I left a company after I had built some custom software for them to do some traffic analysis. The VP was angry I left, but everyone else really wanted help to keep updating this application. Initially they wanted to pay me as a contractor (after I left and had another job!) so they could update his application, but the VP shot it down. At the same time, I didn't want to leave my former co-workers in the lurch, so I did them a favor. I told them that I would consult with them (but not touch any code) if they paid for lunch. I got a few free sushi lunches, they got the help they needed, and the VP ended up paying for the bills without knowing what it was about.

So even if you didn't want to explicitly charge your former boss, surely there was some way to get compensated for your time. If you didn't negotiate it the first time, at least you learned a quick lesson. Then again, if she called you once for help and got it, you can be sure that she'll call you again, so you may get your chance after all.

Let me see if I got this right . . . (1)

Prong (190135) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686604)

You were laid off (presumably to save money) by a company that didn't have the foresight to have someone, somewhere on retainer to fix brokes. And when things actually did break, instead of paying someone to fix it they call you and browbeat you into doing it for free? "Kind" isn't the word I'd use for that.

As a rule, I don't mind answering a quick question from a former client or employer. I figure that it generates good will, and even if I don't have any desire to work at that site again, at least I've improved my references. That being said, if something looks like it's either going to take more than an hour on the phone, require me to visit the site, or be ongoing, I politely suggest that I can't help them with out a minimum of a signed fax committing to $RATE plus $EXPENSES (and I require a contract for anything more than 2 days work). If I can't get a commitment on that, I figure someone is just looking to abuse me.

It seems quite common (3, Insightful)

toolafial (626804) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686605)

I had about the exact same thing happen to me. I was laid off from my job, and not a week later I had a call from my old boss demanding some information. I quietly replied that my consulting fees are $20 an hour and the clock was ticking. Luckily for him it was only a 2 min question (I don't bill for anything under 30 min). However, luckily for me I did answer his question because exactly one month later another department called me back to do some contract work. Like one comment I read it doesn't help to burn any bridges. Sometimes one just needs to swallow his/her pride. Oh and one note I was able to renew my contract and I am working from home. Oh my gosh you guys working from home is so sweet!

Re:It seems quite common (3, Informative)

Spacelord (27899) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686630)

>I don't bill for anything under 30 min

You have it reversed ... you should always bill *at least* 30 min, no matter how small the question. Else you could end up being bothered every 5 minutes with small questions because you're not charging for it anyway.

Well, (1)

The Phantom Buffalo (613874) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686606)

It's all about money at this point. I have yet to find a company that really gives a shit about thier employees. That's why we're all reduced to being called "Human Resources".

The Worst... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686609)

Is when you solve someone's hardware problem, then if it comes up in discussion later, they say, "You didn't help me, I figured it out by myself". Sure thing skippy! If I didn't help you you'd still be trying to make that phone cable fit into your ethernet port!

Fuck jesus (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686610)

Fuck jesus and "turning the other cheek"

You just got used.

My ex-boss and I have a set arrangement: He hires me as a contractor at 3x my previous salary with a minimum of 1.5 weeks work. It's worked out beautifully for both of us.

get a spine. If you want to 'help out,' fine, but don't bitch when you're not rewarded. Jesus didn't.

It's wasn't jesus who said that it was gandhi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686611)

Give due credit

"Turn the other cheek, as Jesus once said." (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686612)

Statements like this are what convinced me long ago that Christianity is for slaves.


Have you ever asked yourself just why your ex-boss thinks she can get away with walking all over you the way that she does? Do you get shit on like this in other areas of your life? No one can really respect you if you don't respect yourself you know. As to this twat calling up and "demanding" that you work for her months after she's laid you off--I would have replied "350/hr, minimum 8 hours plus compensation for all the time I've been unemployed, bitch!" and slammed the phone down. If she wants you she can call back. Grow a spine, man, your life will be the better for it.

Jesus say (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686614)

Jesus say submit to the corporate masters and the plutocracy or you go to hell like the commies!

Just remember this.. (1)

mindstrm (20013) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686621)

Business is business. Don't feel bad about saying "I can help you, but it's going to cost you". Don't feel bad at all.. because if you don't do it, they will pay someone else and arm and a leg to do it.

Ask for a lot. If they think it's not much, point out that you can probably fix it in half the time that some other outfit could because you are familiar with it, so they'll end up paying the same, and having it fixed that much faster.

There are some former employers whom I would do a favor for, only because they have done me favors in the past. There are others who I would not help out unless the money was large.

One question... (2)

BTWR (540147) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686627)

Were you fired, or did you quit? If you were fired, then how dare they lay you off and then demand that you help them! If you quit, however, maybe you are still friendly and mighta done this favor? Even so, it is not "rude" to ask for compensation.

Same thing happened to me, i got revenge. (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4686631)

I was the leaded programmer and systems administrator, for a software company all our systems where Linux. I had tons of custom scripts to do backups, restores, replication and custom modified php, i added some functions directly to the php source code, so when a new person came in he found that just upgrading apache and php, didn't work :) . So they give me a call a few weeks after getting layed off. "None of our intranet software will run" we upgraded apache and php and it still doesn't work." I knew exactly what the problem was. I told them, I could have it running by the end of the day tomorrow. 'I thought I would let them sweat it alittle.' And I told them my consulting fee was $125 per hour with a 2 hour minimum. At the end of the day I walked away with a check for $500. I can't wait until they attempt to upgrade again.

Saying no (3, Informative)

Max Coffee (559629) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686632)

My inference is that you did not request payment in advance, and you felt (and feel) taken advantage of. Everyone's advice re: specifying fees and/or telling her to F.O.A.D. are accurate, but you probably already knew that. My guess is you're just not comfortable with saying no. I've had this problem before, and I have some books to suggest (pick your own store, I'm not getting paid for this!)
  • Unlimited Power by Anthony Robbins. My personal favorite.
  • Getting to Yes by Roger Fisher and William Ury. The classic negotiation book.
  • Start With No by Jim Camp. I haven't read this one, actually, but it sounds very on-topic.
Good luck. Find your strength.

Submit her a bill (1, Redundant)

fudgefactor7 (581449) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686633)

Make her pay for your time, since you no longer work there, you're a contract. If she feels that she doesn't need to pay, inform her that you certainly can undo the work you did. And then sue... And for the future: get paid in advance if you can, or by the hour, negotiate some money, dude!

well (2)

anthony_dipierro (543308) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686641)

Has anyone else had this happen to them before? What actions did you take?

I'd be glad to explain to you all the times that this has happened to me and what actions I took for only $25/hour.

I need a hand with my network (3, Funny)

po_boy (69692) | more than 11 years ago | (#4686642)

Hey, Ali - I've got a problem with my network over here, too. I can't seem to DHCP addresses with my wireless cards sometimes. Come over sometime today or tomorrow and get it fixed for me before business starts back up on Monday. Call me and let me know what time is best for you.

Thanks.
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