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As the Spam Turns

michael posted more than 11 years ago | from the spam-musubi-is-really-tasty dept.

Spam 408

Anonymous writes "The SBL has added Verio's corporate mail servers to its blocklist which protects nearly 100 million mailboxes, because of the number of spam gangs on the Verio network. Verio also provides connectivity to AS26212, a collection of 9 of the most notorious spammers netblocks. AS26212 - the new spambone? - is also connected to he.net and bbnplanet.net."

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408 comments

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Do so, do not (-1, Offtopic)

Lemmeoutada Collecti (588075) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694182)

Watching the spam wars reminds me of the A.L.I.C.E conversation...

Re:Do so, do not (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694203)

Are you high??? They are nothing alike, MODS: pleeeeeeeeese mod down this pathetic attempt at humor.

Re:Do so, do not (2, Insightful)

Lemmeoutada Collecti (588075) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694223)

Oh, I don't know... Spammer finds way to circumvent which blocker finds way to block which spammer finds way to circumvent which blocker finds way to block...

ad nasuem..

Am I the only one (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694532)

who gets seriously hot and bothered by all this "spambone" talk?

This one goes out to Michael Sims (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694183)

FUCK YOU, Mikey Boy!!

Good (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694186)

This will force Verio to take action. If Verio's customers get upset, Verio will listen.

Re:Good (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694195)

What, what an INSIGHTFUL fucking post! Nobody could accuse you of being overrated or redundant, NO!!

Christ. Next you'll be telling us you've noticed a correlation between the brightening and darkening of the environment and the rise and setting of the sun.

Re:Good (3, Insightful)

uncleFester (29998) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694289)

This will force Verio to take action.

Yeah.. legal, probably. After all, it is a down economy. I would not be suprised to see Spamhaus served a cease-and-desist before Verio does the Right Thing and starts punting luser spammers.

The admins & abuse people are the ones at Verio really taking it on the chin. I can only imagine the vitriol pouring in their mailboxes and publicly on forums like nanae.

-fester

Re:Good (5, Insightful)

Frater 219 (1455) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694392)

I would not be suprised to see Spamhaus served a cease-and-desist before Verio does the Right Thing and starts punting luser spammers.

Luckily, the spamfighting community has a great deal of experience with such misbehavior. The slang expression among spamfighters for a sender of baseless legal threats is "cartooney", as in cartoon + attorney. Spammers send these out by the boatloads when their delusions suggest it will get people to stop trying to block their thefts.

Steve Linford, the operator of the SBL and ROKSO (and known in China as Stiff Linefeed) is a long-time anti-spam veteran, and has a great deal of support from others such. If Verio tries to harangue, hassle, or hornswoggle him into falsely removing them from SBL, he will have dozens of clued and supportive people on his side. If Verio files suit, Mr. Linford will have a substantial legal defense fund faster than you can say "Canter & Siegel".

Re:Good (0, Troll)

cdrguru (88047) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694476)

The legal problems come from one simple thing - there is nobody that is responsible. We were blocked (wrongly) a while back by some cowboy with a list. The problem is the list is compiled by anonymous sources and the "list administrator can be *very* difficult to find.

OK, so you find the list administrator. So what? They did not actively "do" anything at all. They did not block your mail. The ISP using the list did. However, the ISP is just using a list that someone else compiled - they cannot change it and are usually extremely reluctant to override it - that might make them responsible.

So, the legal issue is pretty simple once you understand it. We would *love* to sue the people that have wrongly blocked us - we don't spam and the list people that we have just dealt with understand that. But it took four days to get unlisted.

Suing is pointless and any reasonable attorney will tell you that once they understand the situation. You might find someone to take your money for a while if they are sufficiently clueless. But there isn't anybody, anywhere to sue.

The goal of the blockers is to eliminate commercial use of the Internet. If they can't convince you of that, they will just block enough email to make doing business via email impractical. We lost four days of being able to respond to many customers. What would you do if you bought something and didn't get confirmation for four days? I'll tell you our customers are not happy at all and most think we're cheats. Lots of credit card chargebacks coming.

We have to move away from relying on an unreliable communication media (email) just to stay in any form of business at all.

Bitter? Heck yes!

Re:Good (2, Interesting)

cdrguru (88047) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694430)

Spam blocking makes email unreliable. The way it is implemented is generally broad-brush and affects a lot more than just blocking some spam.

If you are blocked, you aren't getting off in a reasonable time, at least reasonable for the Internet. It might be reasonable for a 1850's pony express route.

The goal of most spam blockers is to eliminate commercial use of the Internet. This is the only way they can succeed. Any commercial use of the Internet is going to involve some level of what these people claim to be "unsolicited" email. And, once you send that you are a spammer.

Oh, and don't forget. If you claim not to be a spammer and put every effort into not spamming anyone the result is simply that you are lying. You can't prove you don't spam and everyone knows spammers lie. If everything you say is a lie, what is the point of discussing anything?

Yeah, I'm bitter. We got unblocked yesterday. We don't spam, but plenty of customers are wondering why we were silent for four days. Some just want their money back now.

Re:Good (5, Informative)

Frater 219 (1455) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694456)

The goal of most spam blockers is to eliminate commercial use of the Internet.

Actually, most "spam blockers" work for organizations which commercially use the Internet. They are mail administrators for ISPs or other companies, which have directed them to reduce the impact of spam on their businesses -- to cut costs or to improve service to customers.

Spam isn't commercial use. It's criminal use.

Re:Good (2, Insightful)

cdrguru (88047) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694510)

You define commercial use as providing services for not-for-profit indivduals web surfing. Fine.

I define commercial use as trying to sell a product on the Internet and communicate with customers. You send one single email to an unconfirmed email address and you can be blocked for days. Do that enough and you are out of business.

I wish the Internet could be a commerce-free zone sometimes. But it is an incredibly easy way to communicate with people and offer products and services to them. However, the spam blockers want to make sure that email cannot be used to send anything that is considered to be "unsolicited". If it has the word "sale" in it, it must be unsolicited - who would ask for something like that from a friend?

You purchase something and we send a confirmation to the email address supplied. If it happens to be a joker that gave us a "spamtrap" address, we're blocked. Don't bother saying it doesn't work that way - we just got unblocked from that happening.

Spamford Wallace where are you???? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694190)

We need our royal crusader, Spamford Wallace, to fight spam as he promised to do after being bitch-slapped for his own spamming crimes.

who cares? (-1, Offtopic)

b0r1s (170449) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694192)

how many times are we going to post the same 10 stories: microsoft is bad, linux is good, spam is bad, old cheap hardware is better than intel although worse than the more expensive and proprietary apple, intel is bad, amd is growing, commercial unix is having a hard time, dell is expanding, someone spent too much time modifying cheap hardware, someone needs to know something and is too lazy to look it up themselves.

-5 You're a loser (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694205)

Speaking of negative score postings, I think that Slashdot should allow one to not only select the lowest score visible, but also the highest. Sometimes I'd like to just see the -1 or 1 scores. I suppose I could almost achieve that by setting every ranking as -5, but still, I'd like it to be a bit more versatile.

Thank you for listening.

Your loyal servant,
Biznatchi

Re:who cares? (0)

shaitand (626655) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694227)

OMG!!! you have done it, you've made me see the light, all of slashdot has been summarized and I can finally get back to work!! hooray! BTW- Spam is bad (gotta stay ontopic)

Re:who cares? (1)

one9nine (526521) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694265)

Oh come on, what about that story about the giant squid!? Darrrrrrrrrrr it was 60' long, I tells ya, 60' long! And when they cooked it up and ate it, it tasted like Windex! Windex, I tells ya!

I also like seeing the litte piggy, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! So keep posting those spam stories. :-)

If only I had karma, you'd be going up (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694286)

Honestly, it's same story day in day out for the past few weeks.

Oh no! (5, Funny)

Yoda2 (522522) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694196)

Now how will I know the best way to enlarge my penis or get that degree from a fine, unaccredited institution?!

Re:Oh no! (-1)

YourMissionForToday (556292) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694212)

A banal, hackneyed comment for a boring, overused topic on slashdot. But let's not start sucking each others' dicks quite yet...

Re:Oh no! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694226)

May we begin now?

Re:Oh no! (5, Funny)

NotAnotherReboot (262125) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694331)

Well, those were once in a lifetime opportunities anyways so I'm sure you'll never get an offer like that ever again.

Re:Oh no! (0)

dubbreak (623656) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694347)

And even if you find a way to elarged penis and a degree on your own how are you going to meet those women that are, "waiting to talk to you right now!"? Your huge cock will just go to waste!

male oriented spam (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694395)

I've yet to see a single advertisement about reducing a woman vagina. It should have an effect equivalent to enlarging the partner's penis. Why isn't the idea popular?

IP filters? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694200)

Don't most filters go by domain names and not IP ranges?

Re:IP filters? (1)

Fefe (6964) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694470)

No.

Slashdot Hustler (-1, Offtopic)

handybundler (232934) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694206)

From the album "OT Original Troller"xxxxxxxxxxxx

Hustler word I pull the troller longxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Grit my teeth spray till every moderator's gonexxxxxxxxxxxxx
Got my IP block sewn armored dope spots xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Last thing I sweat's a sucka punk mod xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Move like a king when I troll hops xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
You try to flex bang another moderator drops xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
You gotta deal with this cause there's no way out xxxxxxxxx
Why? Cash money ain't never gonna play out xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I got nothin to lose much to gain xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
In my brain I got a capitalist migraine xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I gotta get laid tonight, you muthafuckin right xxxxxxxxxxx
Fools check my grip, check my bitch, keep my game tight xxx
So many hos on my jock, think I'm a movie star xxxxxxxxxxxx
Nineteen, I got a fifty thousand dollar car xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Go to school, I ain't goin for it, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Kiss my ass, bust the cap on the Moet xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cause I don't wanna hear that crap, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Why? I'd rather be a Slashdot-----Hustler xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


(chorus) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hustler xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x
Hustler xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x
Hustler xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x
H-U-S-T-L-E-R xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


hustler xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x


(kid drop in) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Yo man you know what I'm sayin? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
You got it trollin' on my man, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I like how it's moddin' down xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
You got the fly cars, the girls, the jewels xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Look at that ring right there, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I know it's real, it's gotta be real xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Man, you the flyest Troller I seen in my life! xxxxxxxxxxxx
Yo man, I just wanna troll with you man, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
How can I be down? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


What's up? You say you wanna be down? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Ease back, or muthafucka get beat down xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Out my face, fool I'm the illest, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Bulletproof, I troll harder than Bruce Perens xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Got my crew in effect, I bought em new Jags, xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
So much cash, gotta keep it in Hefty bags xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
All I think about is keys and Gs xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Imagine that, me workin at Mickey D's (ha ha ha ha) xxxxxxxx
That's a joke cause my karma's never gonna be broke, xxxxxx
When I die there'll be bullets and gunsmoke xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Ya don't like my lifestyle? Fuck you! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I'm trollin with the Slashdot crew xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


And I'm a hustler H-U-S-T-L-E-R hustler xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Slashdot, Slashdot xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Here I come, so you better break North, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
As I troll, my gold chains glide back and forth xxxxxxxxxxx
I care nothing bout you, and that's evident xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
All I love's my trolls and dead comment threads xxxxxxxxxxx
Sound crazy? Well it isn't xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The ends justifies the means, that's the system xxxxxxxxxxx
I learned Linux in school then I dropped out, xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hit the streets, checked a grip, and now I got clout xxxxxx
I had no karma, and I wanted it xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
You had +50 cap, and you flaunted it xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Turned the needy into the greedy, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
With Slashdot, my success came speedy xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Got me twisted, jammed into a paradox xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Every dollar I get, ain't suckin Slashdot Moderator cocks x
Maybe that's the plan, and I don't understand, xxxxxxxxxxxx
God damn----you got me sinkin in quicksand xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
But since I don't know, and I ain't never learned, xxxxxxxx
I gotta get paid, I got karma to earn xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
With my posse, out on the ave, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Bump my sounds, crack a First Post and laugh xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cool out and watch my First Post gleam, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Is this a nightmare? Or the American dream? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
So think twice if you're coming down my block, xxxxxxxxxxxx
You wanna journey through hell? Well slashdot gets hot xxxx
Pregnant teens, children's screams, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Life is weighed on the scales of a Redundancy xxxxxxxxxxxxx
You don't come here much, and ya better not xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Wrong move (bang), ambulance cot xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I gotta get more karma than you got, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
So what, if some muthafucka gets shot? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
That's how the game is played, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Another brother slayed, the wound is deep xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
BUT they're givin us a Band Aid xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
My computer education's low but I got long dough, xxxxxxxxx
Raised like a pit bull, my heart pumps nitro xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sleep on silk, lie like a politician, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
My Uzi's my best friend, cold as a mortician xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Lock me up, it's genocidal catastrophe, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
There'll be another one after me! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


A hustler xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Hustler xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x


H-U-S-T-L-E-R hustler Slashdot, Slashdot xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

This is depressing... (3, Insightful)

shaitand (626655) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694213)

To see the spammers win and block legitimate sites to stop the criminals is well... criminal. Isn't that what all of us who believe in freedom are supposed to be fighting against. I hate spam as much as the next guy, but I'd rather see every spammer run rampant then restrict even one innocent party nobody cares about.

Only the corporate site was blocked (5, Informative)

d2ksla (89385) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694278)

but I'd rather see every spammer run rampant then restrict even one innocent party nobody cares about.

In the comment from Spamhaus it is clearly stated that only the Verio corporate mailserver is blocked in order to protect their ISP users.

Re:Only the corporate site was blocked (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694501)

Actually that isn't correct. Verio has two mail systems, one is their webhosting stuff and one is everything else. The "corporate" server where employees get their email is in the "everything else" which is what's blocked. But there's also a lot of customers served by that system, so while they ARE listing the corporate stuff they're listing a whole lot more too, whether they know it or not. (No I dno't know whether they know it or not, but I know for a fact they're blocking customers too, so their claim about blocking only corporate people is just plain inaccurate.)

Basically anybody whose mail isn't part of one of their web-hosting packages is on this blocked mail system. (Which includes me)

Re:This is depressing... (1, Insightful)

PFAK (524350) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694284)

This is no different the the occurences that DALnet IRC Network has auto killed *.ipt.aol.com to get the attention of the ISP due to not helping with abuse complaints. It worked, so why wouldnt it work with spam?

Re:This is depressing... (3, Insightful)

ThesQuid (86789) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694410)

I'll second that. Folks, let's face the facts: there are tons of people out there who have no clue what they signed up for, and then buy automated spam reporting software. Sites where someone legitamately signed up are then painted with a VERY broad brush as spammers by idiots who then assign everything in their e-mail box as spam.

I've had people sign up to get info from a site i run, and upon receiving the first e-mail that they explicitly requested, write back in all caps "HOW DID YOU GET MY ADDRESS??? STOP SENDING ME THIS!!!"

Couple that effect with vigilante spamblock operations (whose haughty tone assumes EVERYONE reported to them is evil) and you have people being slimed who are doing legitimate business on the web.
Yes, I agree people who forge headers or don't properly cull lists are negligent. They are buffoons who should be blocked. But hey, what are you going to do, block yahoo.com?

Great, more censorship (3, Insightful)

I Am The Owl (531076) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694215)

That's just what the Internet needs. When will ISPs decide, or be forced, to stop playing Big Brother and let the users make their own decisions about what to filter? The technology is out there, in the form of Bayesian filters, and is nearly perfect. So why do we still have to deal with upstream providers knowing what's best for us?

Re:Great, more censorship (1)

b0r1s (170449) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694224)

Bayesian filters are not "nearly perfect." There are some technologies that are closer, such as support vector machines and LVQ., but bayes isn't going to cut it.

Re:Great, more censorship (2, Informative)

I Am The Owl (531076) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694274)

Bayesian filters are not "nearly perfect."

Really? You mean blocking 995 out of 1000 [paulgraham.com] isn't "nearly perfect"? 99.5% seems pretty damn close to perfect to me...

Re:Great, more censorship (5, Insightful)

p3d0 (42270) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694405)

That's only half the picture. It also must let every non-spam email get through. It can't just discard important emails. Otherwise, I could provide you with a simple filter that blocks 100% of spam...

(I'd like to point out that the link you provided claimed "0 false positives" which is exactly what I'm talking about.)

Re:Great, more censorship (2, Insightful)

jenssoderberg (523466) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694433)

On a sidenote, alter the spamfilter so that it will send the reason why the email was flagged as spam to the sender. If its a important letter i do think the sender will try to send the email again in a altered shape.

Re:Great, more censorship (5, Informative)

Uma Thurman (623807) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694239)

Nobody's stopping you from getting spam if you want it. Calling this censorship is completely and utterly misunderstanding what censorship is, and what a blocklist is.

Re:Great, more censorship (2, Interesting)

zulux (112259) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694275)

When will ISPs decide, or be forced, to stop playing Big Brother and let the users make their own decisions about what to filter?

I specifically choose ISP that follow spam black-out lists. Makes my life a lot easier. It's my choice to choose my ISP.

Kids with their Yahoo! or Hotmail account usually don't care about spam, but I do, because each piece of spam causes me to loose billable time.

Re:Great, more censorship (2, Informative)

gerbache (540848) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694276)

This isn't so much censorship as it is removing a source of unwanted, unsolicited mass mailings. In many states, this is illegal, especially when it comes to telephones. I personally really like the fact that this might possibly remove a source of spam from being able to deliver to my email account.

Besides, if they decide to take the initiative and prevent this sort of thing from happening, they can be reinstated. Sounds good to me.

Why content filtering is not enough (5, Insightful)

Frater 219 (1455) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694338)

The technology is out there, in the form of Bayesian filters, and is nearly perfect.

Bayesian filters, SpamAssassin, and other client-side content filters can indeed reduce the amount of spam that you see. As such, they can reduce some major costs of spam for the average Internet user, small site, or business: costs such as annoyance, offense, wasted time, and harm to productivity thereby caused -- that is to say, the end-user costs of spam.

However, they have no effect on the cost of the bandwidth and other resource costs of spam, which are substantial for large ISPs and large businesses -- and for the Internet as a whole. In order to perform content filtration on a piece of mail, you must receive it and store it first, which has its costs. (Consider that large ISPs regularly report that anywhere from one-third to two-thirds of their mail is spam.)

Only forms of spam filtration which do not permit the spammer to send the spam to your mail server can reduce the bandwidth cost of spam. In practicality, that means filters which apply to one or more of the following (in increasing order of cost):

  1. The sending host's IP address;
  2. The sending host's DNS name or other IP metadata; or
  3. The contents of the SMTP envelope, that is, the arguments to the MAIL FROM and RCPT TO commands, or other sender behavior prior to the DATA command.

(Note the SMTP envelope is not the same as the mail headers, which are part of the SMTP DATA. An SMTP server is permitted to reject mail before DATA, but is not allowed to drop the connection in mid-DATA. If you do not understand this, read RFC 2821.)

DNSBLs -- such as SBL, MAPS RBL, and SPEWS -- all apply to the IP address of the sending system. Domain-based rejection lists (which are not commonly published) apply to the DNS name of the sending system. RHSBLs, and relay checking, apply to the SMTP envelope.

Keep also in mind that one function of some (but not all) DNSBLs is not merely to filter out spam, but to discourage it from being attempted in the first place. By rejecting mail from networks which have proven themselves to tolerate spammers, we tell network operators that if they wish to be able to send us mail, they must kick off their spammers. It's their choice which they do; they just have to choose which is worth more to them: being able to send mail to sites that don't like spam, or being able to host network-abusers with impunity.

(Incidentally, you will find precious little sympathy for calling spam filtering "censorship". Censorship, as those who have experienced it understand, happens when some party uses violent force to stop a view or expression from being published by its advocates (at their cost). Spammers aren't trying to publish their views at their own cost and being violently restrained from doing so: they're trying to steal the use of others' equipment to publish their stuff.)

Re:Why content filtering is not enough (5, Informative)

CoolVibe (11466) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694514)

Content filtering helps. The more users use content filtering, the less of the spammers' messages gets seen by the users, and it will make mass-mailed advertising scams profitless, and if that's successful, spam dies.

Sure, DNSBLs and other blacklists help. They should be used. The content filtering is just perfect for covering that last mile (if spam passes all the blacklisting mechanism). It _might_ deterr spammers from spamming, but I doubt it. Spammer notices that his last mailing bounced, and he uses another open relay.

If a spammer knows that Bayesian filters and Spamassassin/Razor type content filtering are widely deployed, it will act as a quite effective deterrant for sending spam. Maybe.

What really needs to be done is EDUCATE isps that an open relay can get you in a whole heap of trouble. Of course many have closed their relays, but a lot still have open ones. Especially administrators in the Middle East and Asia need to be LARTed badly, since that's where 90% of my spam is relayed from. Once all open relays are killed, the spammer has only 2 alternatives, either set up his own SMTP, or use the one his ISP allocated to him. Both are easy to track and put an end to. The spammer would have to register for a new account and the more often that happens, the sooner his/her name will be blacklisted. Heck, if anti-spam laws are legislated, the spammer could end up in jail. Jail is the ultimate deterrent. There's nothing like the prospect of being assraped by Bubba to deterr spammers.

With respect to the "filtering spam is censorship" comments, well... Content filtering is my way of plugging my ears with my fingers because I do not want to know what you are trying to sell me/scam me into. The DNSBLs are a LART to teach the admins not to run an open relay.

Re:Great, more censorship (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694431)

The technology is out there, in the form of Bayesian filters, and is nearly perfect

Yeah, and so was the treaty of Versailles. Give up karma whoring on Bayesian filtering. I'm sure it'll fall out of the slashdot auto-mod-up favor any moment now, like Indrema.

in case it gets slashdotted (AC,not karma whoring) (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694221)

Ref: SBL5263

129.250.36.0/24 is listed on the Spamhaus Block List (SBL)

Nov 17 2002 - 15:3hrs GMT

Verio, Inc. Corporate Mail Relays
This SBL listing of Verio, Inc. corporate resources for Knowingly Providing Spam Support Services, is made with sadness on the part of the Spamhaus Project team because we know Verio has an extremely good Abuse Team and an excellent Acceptable Use Policy. We are certain Verio's spam problems are caused by greed-driven executives overriding the Abuse team and making a mockery of Verio's Acceptable Use Policy.

Things have gone seriously wrong at Verio. Verio is in management crisis and Verio's Sales management has made an unwise decision to generate additional cash by purposefully selling connectivity to well-known spam gangs enabling blatant spam operations to operate from the Verio network.

A number of hard-core notorious spam gangs run by spammers with criminal records for fraud or theft are now hosted knowingly by Verio, therefore the volumes of Verio-hosted spam have increased dramatically. Gangs including "US Health Labs" and "Cyrunner" (running two separate fake ISPs "UNIPXNET" and "IXXNET" off Verio with fraudulent registrations designed to misdirect spam complaints) are flooding the Internet non-stop in spam for "pre-teen-sex", "make-penis-fast", viagra, loans and mortgage scams.

Verio's broadband business unit's president is believed to have personally approved the sale of 100+ high-bandwidth lines to US Health Labs, knowingly for spam purposes. These are sales made knowing that US Health Labs, run by professional spammers Mike Cunningham and Andrew Amend, are a spam gang whose sole business and sole use of Verio's network is for the relentless and illegal spamming of millions of U.S. Citizens.

Another long-term professional spam operation, IMG Direct run by Steve Hardigree and Frank Bernal moved to Verio on 1 November after being thrown off Sprint. Another spam operation, Gordon Lantz, like the others thrown off almost all major U.S. networks, is about to go live on Verio having been approved and scheduled for installation.

With increasing alarm, the Spamhaus Project has watched spammers moving to Verio due to Verio Sales Managers knowingly doing business with notorious 'porn & pills' spam gangs. Spamhaus believes that Verio's CEO is ordering the Abuse department to disregard the AUP and that is a situation that, as well as illuminating a disastrous state of affairs for Verio customers and shareholders, is unacceptable to us.

This SBL listing of Verio's Corporate Mail Relays is intended to not impede the normal communications of Verio customers, but to concentrate boycott action on Verio executives. Executives who appear willing to supply Spam Support Services foregoing ethics and integrity in return for promises of larger line purchases from spam operations.

Email from Verio Corporate Mail Relays is currently being refused by 98 Million international SBL users. If you are currently experiencing mail difficluties due to this listing, please contact your Verio account manager/Verio Customer Support now. A Verio executive needs to contact Spamhaus.

SBL Listings of spam gangs hosted by Verio [spamhaus.org]

Verio spam complaints (current issues) [google.com]

The 'Cyrunner' spam gang (aka "UNIPXNET" and "IXXNET") [spamhaus.org]

The 'US Health Labs' spam gang [spamhaus.org]

Re:in case it gets slashdotted (AC,not karma whori (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694385)

a disastrous state of affairs for Verio customers and shareholders

Verio is a privately held subsidiary of NTT Communications, and thus, has no "shareholders" to speak of, other than its parent company.

Spam comes from unlikely places... (5, Funny)

GreyWolf3000 (468618) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694232)

I got a Nigerian money scam today with a yahoo address in the header.

I replied with a cheap goatse.cx link. It went something like "Sure, I'll do it--but can you please check my [a href="http://goatse.cx"]website[/a] tomorrow--I will post a picture of an open door to indicate that you have been granted the go-ahead. If not, it will mean I need another day for my paperwork to be prepared. I have been having troubles with my bank lately, and they might be looking into me, but fortunately I have the right friends. I think email is much too insecure for this." I guess trolls do provide something useful for the community.

Re:Spam comes from unlikely places... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694271)

> Sure, I'll do it--but can you please check my [a href="http://goatse.cx"]website[/a] tomorrow--I will post a picture of an open door to indicate that you have been granted the go-ahead.

That got funnier when I read it the second time...did you intend that?

GOATSEX LINK! MOD DOWN (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694306)

Don't copy-paste into your browser...

Re:GOATSEX LINK! MOD DOWN (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694368)

Don't type 'http://goatse.cx' in your browser and click 'go' or press 'enter.'

Re:GOATSEX LINK! MOD DOWN (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694374)

If someone knows what a "GOATSEX LINK" is, then why the fuck do they need you to tell them that if it says right there?

And if they don't, you're post won't help them, now will it?

Re:Spam comes from unlikely places... (5, Funny)

Jucius Maximus (229128) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694315)

" I got a Nigerian money scam today with a yahoo address in the header. I replied with a cheap goatse.cx link. It went something like "Sure, I'll do it--but can you please check my [a href="http://goatse.cx"]website[/a] tomorrow--I will post a picture of an open door to indicate that you have been granted the go-ahead. If not, it will mean I need another day for my paperwork to be prepared. I have been having troubles with my bank lately, and they might be looking into me, but fortunately I have the right friends. I think email is much too insecure for this." I guess trolls do provide something useful for the community."

Haha, that is good, but I can one-up you on that... I've told this story recently in another slashdot thread but I'll actually post the guy's response this time.

Here is my response to the original spam:

Hello, Mr. Abu, it is wonderful to be doing business with you!
My name is James Kirk with phone#202-406-5850 and fax#202-406-5031.
[these are the phone and fax number for the US Secret service electronic crimes bureau]
Company: Utopia Planetia Fleet Yards
Company Address: 33601 Lyon Street, San Francisco CA 94123
I look forward to receiving this money!
-James
[yes, the james kirk name was inspired by the haxial.org thing]

The guy e-mailed me back and asked me to phone him on his private line. I looked up the phone exchange and it indeed was in Nigeria.

Then I got another e-mail from him an hour later:

Subject: WHY?????

Dear Kirk,

If you were not interested in assisting us, you sholud have kindly told us so
that we can look for another foreign partner who might be interested in
assisting us, instead of agreeing to assist, and giving the number of your
secret service for us to contact.
Why could'nt you be man enough to tell us that you are not interested.

Well, I wish all the best, as we continue our search for a reliable person
that will be genuinely intersted in assisting us.


He actually called it. I got some of the other scammers to fax their documents to the fax number. One guy e-mailed me back and said that the lady on the line didn't know of any James Kirk there. Teehee...

Re:Spam comes from unlikely places... (2)

GreyWolf3000 (468618) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694354)

If I were smarter, I would have emailed as if I were really into it, waited for their response, and then sent 'em the link. Then they would have flagged me as a potential victim, and so they might have actually visited the link. As it stands, I concede victory on the basis of getting the thrill of a real response ;)

Re:Spam comes from unlikely places... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694530)

Ah, that gave me an idea. Next time I get mail from one of these worthless heaps of baboon dung, I'll reply with a link to dms100.org/worksucks (or whatever it was, you know the "I'M LOOKING AT GAY PORNO" thing).

As Sambo sits there in an Internet cafe in Lagos, waiting for moron infidel dog whitey victims to bite... "I'M LOOKING AT GAY PORNO, I'M LOOKING AT GAY PORNO..."
I'm hope the moslem Sharia laws will punish him accordingly. At long last!

There are spam gangs?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694237)

My gosh... when I was a kid, gangs did fun things like rape, robbery and murder. Heck, even the script kiddies sound cool by comparison.

"Yo, Tony, guess what we did today? We hit all of Hotmail with ads for herbal viagra!" "That sounds deadly!"

Congratulations! (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694242)

As with the UDP, all that ridiculous overreactions like this result in is an increase in those who find the cure nych worse than the sickness.

I used to subscribe to a few filter lists on my mail servers, but the operators are such assholes about things that the lists are now useless, filtering out more valid email than bad (when you consider that a few intelligent local filters can eliminate 90% of spam).

Er... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694249)

Isn't Verio Paul Vixie's company?

Ironic...

Re:Er... (1)

proximacnt (557654) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694471)

Uh, no. Vixie works as a consultant, and he's never had any direct involvement with Verio that I'm aware of. Certainly not as any kind of major shareholder. http://www.vix.com/

In other news... (1)

Jucius Maximus (229128) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694255)

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Verio had it coming.

Spam to spammers (5, Interesting)

razmaspaz (568034) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694259)

Do you think the people who send out all this spam get annoyed at all the spam in their mailbox or are they proud of the work they do?

Spammer's secret (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694432)

They all have addresses @spam.com and no one ever spams those (since, it's their own email!). Brilliant.

Re:Spam to spammers (5, Funny)

scott1853 (194884) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694519)

If a Sprint telemarketer gets a call at home from an on-duty Sprint telemarketer, does he tell them to go fuck off? That's another one for the Zen Buddists to think about.

this is at least two weeks old (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694260)

I'm in the process of selecting a new hosting provider, and I've been fishing the Verio account team's emails out of my quarantine folder since the first of November. I just love responding to them with the Spam Assassin body modifications right there in-line -- of course, they haven't commented.

Needless to say, the chances of my actually recommending them as a hosting provider are roughly equivalent to the odds of a squadron of flying pink poodles attacking Finland on December 32nd.

Hrm, isn't that John Gilmore's ISP? (5, Funny)

autopr0n (534291) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694269)

IE the founder of the EEF and the guy who refuses to close is open mail relay?

Just set up your Baysian Spam Filter... (2, Insightful)

ksheka (189669) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694272)

...That is, if you have Mozilla. :-)

The Art of Cunniligus (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694292)

Hey, I have a lot of respect for all you guys who like to eat pussy because there are too few of you out there. And I'm not the only woman who says this. Furthermore, some of you guys who are giving it the old college try are not doing too well, so maybe this little lesson will help you out. When a woman finds a man who gives good head, she's found a treasure she's not going to let go of him too quickly. This is one rare customer and she knows it. She won't even tell her girlfriends about it or that guy will become the most popular man in town. So, remember, most guys can fuck, and those who can usually do it satisfactorily, but the guy who gives good head, he's got it made.

Most women are shy about their bodies. Even if you've got the world's most gorgeous woman in bed with you, she's going to worry about how you like her body. Tell her it's beautiful, tell her which parts you like best, tell her anything, but get her to trust you enough to let you down between her legs. Now stop and look at what you see.
Beautiful, isn't it?

There is nothing that makes a woman more unique than her pussy.

I know. I've seen plenty of them. They come in all different sizes, colors and shapes; some are tucked inside like a little girl's cunnie and some have thick luscious lips that come out to greet you. Some are nested in brushes of fur and others are covered with transparent fuzz. Appreciate your woman's unique qualities and tell her what makes her special. Women are a good deal more verbal than men, especially during love-making. They also respond more to verbal love, which means, the more you talk to her, the easier it will be to get her off. So all the time you're petting and stroking her beautiful pussy, talk to her about it.

Now look at it again.

Gently pull the lips apart and look at her inner lips, even lick them if you want to. Now spread the tops of her pussy up until you can find her clit. Women have clits in all different sizes, just like you guys have different sized cocks. It doesn't mean a thing as far as her capacity for orgasm. All it means is more of her is hidden underneath her foreskin.

Whenever you touch a woman's pussy, make sure your finger is wet. You can lick it or moisten it with juices from inside her. Be sure, by all means, to wet it before you touch her clit because it doesn't have any juices of its own and it's extremely sensitive. Your finger will stick to it if it's dry and that hurts. But you don't want to touch her clit anyway. You have to work up to that. Before she becomes aroused, her clit is too delicate to be handled.

Approach her pussy slowly. Women, even more so than men, love to be teased. The inner part of her thigh is her most tender spot. Lick it, kiss it, make designs on it with the tip of your tongue. Come dangerously close to her pussy, then float away. Make her anticipate it.

Now lick the crease where her leg joins her pussy. Nuzzle your face into her bush. Brush your lips over her slit without pressing down on it to further excite her. After you've done this to the point where your lady is bucking up from her seat and she's straining to get more of you closer to her, then put your lips right on top of her slit.

Kiss her, gently, then harder. Now use your tongue to separate her pussy lips and when she opens up, run your tongue up and down between the layers of pussy flesh. Gently spread her legs more with your hands. Everything you do with a woman you're about to eat must be done gently.

Tongue-fuck her. This feels divine. It also teases the hell out of her because by now she wants some attention given to her clit. Check it out. See if her clit has gotten hard enough to peek out of its covering. If so, lick it. If you can't see it, it might still be waiting for you underneath. So bring your tongue up to the top of her slit and feel for her clit. You may barely experience its presence. But even if you can't feel the tiny pearl, you can make it rise by licking the skin that covers it. Lick hard now and press into her skin.

Gently pull the pussy lips away and flick your tongue against the clit, hood covered or not. Do this quickly. This should cause her legs to shudder. When you sense she's getting up there toward orgasm, make your lips into an O and take the clit into your mouth. Start to suck gently and watch your lady's face for her reaction. If she can handle it, begin to suck harder. If she digs it, suck even harder. Go with her. If she lifts her pelvis into the air with the tension of her rising orgasm, move with her, don't fight her. Hang on, and keep your hot mouth on her clit. Don't let go. That's what she'll be saying too: 'Don't stop. Don't ever stop!'

There's a reason for that - most men stop too soon. Just like with cock sucking, this is something worth learning about and worth learning to do well. I know a man who's a lousy fuck, simply lousy, but he can eat pussy like nobody I know and he never has trouble getting a date. Girls are falling all over him.

But back to your pussy eating session...There's another thing you can do to intensify your woman's pleasure. You can finger-fuck her while she's enjoying your clit-licking talents. Before, during or after. She'll really like it. In addition to the erogenous zones surrounding her clit, a woman has another extremely sensitive area at the roof of her vagina. This is what you rub up against when you're fucking her. Well, since your cock is pretty far away from your mouth, your fingers will have to do the fucking.

Take two fingers. One is too skinny and three is too wide and therefore can't get deep enough. Make sure they're wet so you don't irritate her skin. Slide them inside, slowly at first, then a little faster. Fuck her with them rhythmically. Speed up only when she does. Listen to her breathing.

She'll let you know what to do. If you're sucking her clit and finger-fucking her at the same time, you're giving her far more stimulation than you would be giving her with your cock alone. So you can count on it that she's getting high on this. If there's any doubt, check her out for symptoms. Each woman is unique. You may have one whose nipples get hard when she's excited or only when she's having an orgasm. Your girl might flush red or begin to tremble. Get to know her symptoms and you'll be a more sensitive lover.

When she starts to have an orgasm, for heaven's sakes, don't let go of that clit. Hang in there for the duration. When she starts to come down from the first orgasm, press your tongue along the underside of the clit, leaving your lips covering the top. Move your tongue in and out of her cunt. If your fingers are inside, move them a little too, gently though, things are extremely sensitive just now.

If you play your cards right, you'll get some multiple orgasms this way. A woman stays excited for a full hour after she's had an orgasm. Do you realize the full impact of that information? The potential? One woman was clocked at 56 orgasms at one sitting. Do you know what effect you would have on a woman you gave 56 orgasms to? She'd be yours as long as you wanted her.

The last advice I have for you is this: After you've made her come, made her your slave by giving her the best head she's ever had, don't leave her alone just yet. Talk to her, stroke her body, caress her breasts. Keep making love to her quietly until she's come all the way down. A man can get off and go to sleep in the same breath and feel no remorse, no sense of loss. But a woman by nature requires some sensitivity from her lover in those first few moments after sex.

Oral sex can be the most exciting sexual experiences you can have. But it's what you make it. Take your time, practice often, pay attention to your lover's signals, and most of all, enjoy yourself.

The G-Spot

This does exist. And in over half of the women out there, it works better than anything else you can do to cause a strong, prolonged orgasm. The original name is the Grafenberg spot, after a doctor, Earnest Grafenberg, who documented the area (which may have been known by people here and there throughout history) in the fifties.

This "spot" is a small "mound" of tissue inside the vagina, between a penny and quarter in size, which responds to being pressed upon. It's almost certainly not the skenes glands, (which are located around the urethra, which is behind the G-spot area), as has been suggested by a few people. In fact, the G-Spot is the tissue in that raised area of the vagina, which has a higher concentration of sexual nerves, and produces hormones similar to those made by the male's prostate gland.

A sort of map to the area -- Imagine your lover lying on her back, legs spread. Your position is between her legs. You would slide a finger inside her vagina, palm up. With your finger straight back, middle finger is best, you would curve it toward yourself, gently, as if you were gesturing to someone to "come here". In doing so, the area you press on should be pretty near her "G-Spot" area. If you know enough to follow the urethra (the tube that leads from the bladder to where the pee comes out), along the inside of her vagina, you may feel a slight swelling (if she's excited) at the point where the g-spot is.

She must be excited, especially if either you or she is new to the g-spot, for the g-spot to have any real effect at all. It's not the ideal area for getting your lover aroused.

But when she is excited, this area (more often than not) is the best way to bring her to orgasm. You work your way back to it gradually, teasing her (typically, this works best) with your fingers, slowly and gently. It's easier to hit the right area with two fingers, but this may not be comfortable for her, depending on how "tight" she is at that moment. When you have your fingers around the right area, try gently pressing, not too quickly. The movement should be fairly rhythmic. It's typically best if you're licking her clitoris (or near it, depending on the woman) at the same time...don't make a big deal out of the "quest", this will often make her feel self-conscious, or distracted. The licking should seem to be the primary activity.

When you find the right area, she should respond by getting more excited. Most of the vagina's inside surface isn't really that sexually sensitive, believe it or not...most of the excitement of randomly inserting fingers is more psychological than from the actual stimulation.

While more complicated techniques work with some women, some of the time, the best basic technique, upon finding the g-spot, is to continue to slowly, rhythmically press on it, while licking her clitoris (for a few women, the labia (lips) are sensitive to licking, too).

This should cause her to build up to an orgasm.

A G-Spot orgasm is different (always, when it works at all) than any other kind women have. It is possible, with some women, to have different qualities and kinds of orgasms from vaginal, clitoral, anal, and even breast stimulation...but with other women, those kinds of orgasms are all pretty much the same. But the G-Spot orgasm not only feels different; it also causes her body to react in a different way.

First, it often causes a "push out" orgasm. The area around, or "above" (farther inside, that is) your fingers seems to swell up or to contract toward the opening of her vagina.

If you find the right combination of pushing back when this happens, and slacking off to let it push out, you can cause (in perhaps half of the women) her orgasm to continue happening, long after normal ones would have subsided. In some women you can even keep her at a "plateau" (raised level) of sexual excitement, like a prolonged orgasm (or a little less than one) afterward, building up to an even bigger climax.

That brings me to another important point; G-Spot orgasms sometimes causes a huge amount (relatively speaking) of lubrication (juices, wetness)...far more than even the most excited woman gets from "conventional" stimulation.

When that extra wetness combines with the push-out orgasm, you get actual ejaculation...like a guy, but much better tasting. The built up juices can shoot out in such volume that you, or she, may be afraid that she lost control of her bladder. That is (almost always) not what happened. The fear that she peed can be enhanced by the fact that the urethra is behind the g-spot, so that in rare cases the woman can sometimes get the feeling that she needs to pee, even though she does not.

In reality, in both men and women, enough sexual excitement prevents peeing, unless you try really hard. This is a built-in reflex, because urine is something of a spermicide. The "pee hard-on" that men get in the morning is partially his body taking advantage of this reflex, to keep him from accidentally wetting the bed with the urine that built up while he was sleeping.

Taste

Anyone who likes, say, coffee or beer should have no room to complain about the way most women taste. No, I don't mean it tastes like coffee or beer, genius...I mean that beer and coffee are, at best, acquired tastes...they are not naturally pleasant to a human being, no matter how much your addiction to one or both has convinced you otherwise. Most people, whether they remember it or not, had to learn to like the taste of beer/coffee, and had the desire to be Like the Adults to help them along. Well, I'd list taking pleasure in cunnilingus above drinking addictive beverages on the list of things that prove maturity. Aside from that, there's the fact that many people who give it an honest try genuinely enjoy the taste/smell.

Is that why spam in my Hotmail account has dropped (4, Interesting)

dustpuppy (5260) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694304)

Hmmm ... i don't know if it cooincidence, but the spam in my Hotmail account has significantly dropped off ... from 30 to 100 spam a day down to 10-20 max ...

Re:Is that why spam in my Hotmail account has drop (3, Interesting)

BrookHarty (9119) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694330)

Mine also, and I asked a couple friends who run ISPs, one in Japan, they also noticed a drop in spam. Could this "Mike and Andrew" health labs really be doing 50% of the spam in the USA?

please stop, i begged him (-1)

turm5ric (587290) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694316)

and yet cmdrtacos blackjack continued to beat a dull rhythym into my bloody skull,
my fluid matted mess of hair the only protection left bewteen
my grey perineum and his spittle.

he told me how he told me and told me to listen to him,
and then he decided i didnt so on his whim he started beating me
harder and harder i was down on the floor looking like OJs unborn daughter
i couldnt see, he pulled out a knife and started cutting me, blood running free,
my guts splashing over me, oh my god is that a symphony, i hear
the angels singing, i feel my spleen is spilling, i feel my life juices
draining, pouring on the floor of this dirty dark basement, server racks on the wall,
my last vision of earth, oh god please let me see something else before the dearth of my death
it was a short life, a good life, mostly, except for my experience with the linux mc,
the taco the malda the michael the brady the bunch of banana penguins tryin to rape me
kill me stomp me abuse me and force me
tellin me i dont know my ass from lee horsley
forcing me installing software thats not helping
paint me to be some kinda wen ho lee
as if he were microsoft and they the KGB
the CIA the FBI rolled into one, universal linux police
gonna wrap your dick in a bun, cook it, cut it, seal it
and deliver it, to the pyral fire of ESR and his triumvriate,
linus and richard and all of those freaks,
doing god knows what in their off-work weeks
goin to the desert with dead pelican beaks
makin penguin ritual look like the pga classic
a spectator sport with lots of sponsors
killing peoples relatives but bringing their daughters
to instill a sense of righteous linux open source anger
at all the power mongers and social haranguers
who kept them down in high school and off the field
who picked them last in the starting lineup deal
hes gonna take it out with a gun and a knife
and a big supercomputer and hell take your life
and maybe your wife or your husband or whatever you got
as long as youre microsoft youre gonna get shot
as long as youre intel your gonna go down
unless you deliver that new supercomputer in town
and dont ask for an NDA, because your property doesnt
mean shit here anyway, we only protect what is ours
and ours alone, we are taking it back to the age of stone,
we are the new global tribal sham democracy, we
ladel our guilt out with a touch of hypocrisy,
we fill ourselves up like yuppies drink tea,
with essays about how we have superiority,
china cant stand a chance against our shrill insistency
and even though the net sucks and is controlled by monopoly
and big business corporate control of our lives is normalcy
because working in computers requires a level of shiftancy
between the anarchist luddite and social conformist technocracy
we use vi instead of chopping blocks you see
we call ourselves pure because we eschew microsoft money
and yet were all built on the same base of hardware PCB
which flows into some river that we will never see
in some 3rd world country we couldnt give a shit about
and 30 years later therell be a cleanup we will talk about
and thats the end of this rhyme because im getting tired.
bye bye you linux player haters,
what would happen i wonder if you all got fired.

Viro when did you lose your way? (5, Informative)

red5 (51324) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694321)

A while ago I worked for a now defunct dot-com that dealt in e-mail marketing through opt-ins. When we moved to hosting through verio. They threatened to cut us off even though our mailings were opt-in, and sent from a different (non-verio) location.

Their anti-spam policies were so draconian that we had to move to exodus. When did they become pro-spam?

Re:Viro when did you lose your way? (1)

Jucius Maximus (229128) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694351)

" A while ago I worked for a now defunct dot-com that dealt in e-mail marketing through opt-ins. When we moved to hosting through verio. They threatened to cut us off even though our mailings were opt-in, and sent from a different (non-verio) location. Their anti-spam policies were so draconian that we had to move to exodus. When did they become pro-spam?"

Maybe now that the dot-coms are defunct and not providing Verio with hordes or revenue, the company needs to find alternate sources of income.

Spam for Collectionists (2, Interesting)

Lord_Sy (165528) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694324)

Dozens of the same e-mail (promoting a "Horny Black Sluts" site) reached my mail server; all with different subjects and remitent addresses, and most of them within a single period of less than 15 minutes.
I guess it was one of the most aggressive spamming campaigns I have ever been victim of.

Now, those who support these spammers will have to suffer the consequences. But, who will have to pay the bandwidth when my E-Mail Backup service provider come to tell me that I've reached the limit?

sounds like my university (1)

ejaw5 (570071) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694332)

I work at the help desk at my univeristy (which I will not disclose) and for a while we kept getting spam from email addresses that were from a particular ISP (which I will also not disclose) in the help desk inbox. So the network admins blocked email connectivity to that ISP, but later we got calls from students using the blocked ISP reporting problems receiving mail from the university email accounts. So the admins had to unblock the ISP.

**I dont have the exact details on what was blocked from the ISP.

Important Information on The Source (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694341)

I think it is phallicly legititmate to have people take these spammers out. They send out e-mail, named after a canned cheap meat. They hog the system administrators for ugly none of their bandwdth. Oh damn this is incoherent. Yeah sucker you read this far now get a life. Yeah Yeah Spaaam Is good. Yeah, Yeah, spaaam is great. Come on people now, people are just trying to make a living here, they get to send out mail and just have a supply of cheap meat substance in a blue can so that they will not have to freakin get a job to feed their children. Don't wanna talk about it, "I say why not" don't wanna think about it. Do you know where I'm coming from, yeah for years I've been dreaming that this day would come....

while you may thank verio for spam (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694357)

while you may thank verio for spam, you should also thank it for goatse.cx [netcraft.com]

OS Server Last changed IP address Netblock Owner
Linux Microsoft-IIS/5.0 9-Oct-2002 198.247.175.96 Verio, Inc.

There ought to be a law... (5, Interesting)

cperciva (102828) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694363)

We really need a law which requires Internet service providers to publicly disclose their terms of service -- that is, publicly disclose what terms of service they actually enforce.

After all, it's really just a consumer protection issue: Verio claims to have an active abuse department, and is thereby misleading people who assume that spammers on Verio's network will be shut down.

Re:There ought to be a law... (2)

evilviper (135110) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694493)

The US government doesn't even uniformly apply their own laws... How do you expect them to demand companies do?

Re:There ought to be a law... (2)

cperciva (102828) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694508)

The US government doesn't even uniformly apply their own laws... How do you expect them to demand companies do?

I'm not USian, so I may be entirely wrong here... but isn't it possible to prosecute someone privately? Ie, you think they've broken the law, the police don't want to file charges, so you file them yourself (and take the place of public prosecutor)?

It would be perfectly good enough if third parties could take an ISP and a spammer to court and get the court to order the ISP to enforce their abuse policy.

DNS Question... (2)

SpaFF (18764) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694372)

From the google groups [google.com] posting about this:

I will conclude by noting that the ixxnet.net autonomous
system was created on 25 july 2002, so it is now in its
third month of life; and that the ixxnet.net DNS seems to
have been put together by the same incompetent that
configured dialnil.com DNS (hint: MX).


What excatly is so incompetent about the DNS configuration? I did a host -t MX ixxnet.net and didn't see anything out of the ordinary?

-Lee

Re:DNS Question... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694418)

They have IP addresses in their MX records. This is against RFC.

from a dig mx ixxnet.net:

ANSWER SECTION:
ixxnet.net. 1H IN MX 5 mail.ixxnet.net.
ixxnet.net. 1H IN MX 4 66.25.224.10.

And from a dig mx dialnil.com:

ANSWER SECTION:
dialnil.com. 59m51s IN MX 4 216.21.32.14.
dialnil.com. 59m51s IN MX 5 mail.dialnil.com.

RFC 1035 - "Each MX matches a domain name with two pieces of data, a preference value (an unsigned 16-bit integer), and the name of a host."

http://www.isc.org/ml-archives/bind-users/1999/0 8/ msg00150.html

Re:DNS Question... (1)

next_permutation (627092) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694468)


host -t mx ixxnet.net
ixxnet.net. mail is handled by 5 mail.ixxnet.net.
ixxnet.net. mail is handled by 4 66.25.224.10.

MX must be a host name; an IP address is not acceptable. There are other suspect things about their DNS configuration, but that's probably what the Usenet post was hinting at.

Re:DNS Question... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694489)


I'm guessing you shouldn't use an IP in the MX.

C:\WINNT>nslookup -qt=mx dialnil.com 205.152.0.20
Server: ns.atl.bellsouth.net
Address: 205.152.0.20

dialnil.com MX preference = 4, mail exchanger = 216.21.32.14
dialnil.com MX preference = 5, mail exchanger = mail.dialnil.com

At your local deli? (1, Offtopic)

jamesjw (213986) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694373)


What about Mr Lucas, the local butcher, prevayor of all things meat?

I bet alot of SPAM originates from him, and your never sure of its source.. it could have come from anywhere..

It could be local or it could be foreign spam..

I say we arrange a protest at his door and block any spam originating from his premesis, and only let valid meat products through..

Spamhaus slashdotted! (2, Funny)

Mark19960 (539856) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694397)

oh, no! the spam will get thru!
stop this slashdotting immediately!

Screw more laws, just ban IPs via smart networks. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694398)

More legislation? More bullcrap solutions like Spamcop.net? Hell no. We need to go the way of the Distributed Checksum Clearhouse and Brightmail. The moment we (as a network of companies and admins running SMTPs and MTAs) detect spam being received, we report the full headers and decide if we wish to actively block, filter, tag, etc.

And, as ISPs, we simply have to monitor our resources more carefully. If we detect a lot of broadcast activity (i.e. outbound SMTP traffic) we're notified and we investigate. We collaborate.

Real technology can block spam. Laws and crap like Spamcop just make more red tape and are half ass solutions.

A temporary fix (3, Insightful)

Gary Franczyk (7387) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694408)

Stopping email from the Verio domains is going to cause more pain than it will help. It is only a matter of time until the spammers find some other vendor to help them send their ads. Money talks, and in an open market, someone will provide the goods.

I honestly believe that the only way to free ourselves from spam is intellegent filtering. Making it illegal will only cause the spammers to move overseas, if they even notice the law at all. The internet is far too large an entity to make a difference by blocking the IP addresses of spam-friendly domains. It won't put a dent in the real problem.

Re:A temporary fix (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694463)

Which is why you make it painful. They may make money serving a spammer, so you make them lose money for doing it, too. If the costs outweight the benefits, they won't do it. (Or if they do it, they'll go out of business eventually.)

Microsoft's fault (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694409)

I think Microsoft is using its monopoly to support these spammers. Microsoft deserves a phunishment for that too.

Heh (2)

Ziviyr (95582) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694413)

I knew Verio was trouble when they absorbed my local ISP and turned it into poop.

Spammers (5, Interesting)

Ninja Master Gara (602359) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694426)

I've had to shut down two mail accounts because of the enormous volume of spam they get. Enough to make even using spam filters a bandwidth problem on my dial up. They were unfortunate enough to be linked with mailto: on a medium traffic site before the harvesting craze began and within a couple weeks were effectively unusable.

ISPs need to realise that if they're not going to do anything about it, they'll be blocked. This happened to us years ago when the ORDB started, and we fixed the problem immediately. We didn't think they were being nasty to us, we realised we had a problem, and we set about fixing it. When ISPs get globally klined from IRC networks, their customers want to know why, and put pressure on the ISP. They listen and respond.

This is no different. If yer gonna be a spammy host, prepare to be blacklisted. Reponsible, rigid, no nonsense, targetted policies are the only thing that will have ANY effect, and even they won't STOP all spam. But it sure helps.

Breaking things is not fixing the problem. (3, Insightful)

hardaker (32597) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694438)

Spam blocking has been around for ages. Blocking broken mail servers has been around for ages. Apparently, it's not working as my mail box still contains a lot of spam.

We need a new solution folks, and blocking large portions of the net will not fix the problem. If you want to make *all* spam to go away, you need a different form of a solution because you can't block everyone who might want to legitimately talk to you. This decision will certainly block a whole slew of legitimate users from speaking with each other.

I'm thinking SMTP needs to be entirely rethought. Unfortunately, this isn't practical either as it'll have the same effect as deliberate breakage during the transition. (hence the reason we don't have ipv6 yet either).

Well (1)

sulli (195030) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694442)

That's stupid, as I use Verio and hope to continue to send email.

Way to make the internet more useful (0, Troll)

Moonwick (6444) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694443)

Blackhole operators like this are just as bad as the spammers themselves; both groups take great pride in having their head firmly shoved up their ass.

Come on. Blocking all of _Verio_? Thanks for doing your part along with the spammers to make e-mail that much less useful.

FYI (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694461)

% whois -h whois.arin.net 26212

OrgName: ixxnet
OrgID: IXXNET

ASNumber: 26212
ASName: IXXNET
ASHandle: AS26212
Comment:
RegDate: 2002-07-25
Updated: 2002-07-25

TechHandle: MS2815-ARIN
TechName: STEFEN, MARKUS
TechPhone: +1-866-949-9638
TechEmail: m.stefen@ixxnet.net

OrgAbuseHandle: MS2815-ARIN
OrgAbuseName: STEFEN, MARKUS
OrgAbusePhone: +1-866-949-9638
OrgAbuseEmail: m.stefen@ixxnet.net

OrgTechHandle: MS2815-ARIN
OrgTechName: STEFEN, MARKUS
OrgTechPhone: +1-866-949-9638
OrgTechEmail: m.stefen@ixxnet.net

# ARIN Whois database, last updated 2002-11-17 19:05
# Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's Whois database.

Spammy spam spam (1)

dethl (626353) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694479)

Ummmm...couldn't the spammers go to a different ISP to distribute their spam? Great...now I see a nomadic tribe of spammers that go from ISP to ISP spamming...thank god for Mail.app on Mac OS X!

Re:Spammy spam spam (1)

cranos (592602) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694521)

A nomadic spam tribe? Bloody vikings, and no I will NOT sing the song, I can't remember the words

Thats why I like it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694480)

i love spam, I love it!!!

see my picture here [free-root.com]

Spam source (2, Interesting)

confusion (14388) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694488)

I'm confused. The netblock that verio's mail servers are on have been blacklisted. The message states that they're being places on the BL because of knowningly hosting spammers, and in one case selling hundreds of high speed connections to a known spammer (presumably with the intent of fliiling them up withoutbound spam).

How likely is it that the spammers get gobs of bandwidth and turn around and relay off of verio's mail servers? Isn't it *much* more likely that the spam is being sent directly from the IP addresses assigned to or owned by the spammers?

Unless I'm way off base, I think this is more a punative measure against verio than a real reduction in spam.

And yes, I do support blacklisting.

Making fun of spammers (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4694522)

http://www.quatloos.com/brad-c/directory01.htm

Sign of bad government (1)

use_compress (627082) | more than 11 years ago | (#4694538)

If spammers were prosecuted more aggressively for the fraudulent content of their messages, their failure to honor unsubscribe requests, etc., there would be no need for SBL to black list Verio's Corporate Mail servers. At least SBL is attempting to pick up the slack of a lazy government.
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