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PINE Releases 4.50

Hemos posted more than 10 years ago | from the my-first-love dept.

Announcements 424

wasaty writes "Yesterday new PINE came out. Main new feature is (at last!) threading support. Look here for a full list of changes." Ah, my first "real" e-mail program; watching it change is like watching evolution in motion.

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424 comments

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Hey, it's even mentioned on MSNBC! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726745)

Click here [msnbc.com]

FP! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726753)

Feline Poop! [echeng.com]

^^^^^^^^ MOD UP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726813)

That is fantastic!

A Different Kind Of Goat Sex (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726763)

YES (-1, Redundant)

morphinedrip (87156) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726766)

Yayyyy.....go Pine.....nice app

thidr psot! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726768)

tidrh ptso!!

The Tao of Linux (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726773)

Something forms itself from the silent void of the empty mailing lists and the noisy chaos of the crowded mailing lists. It shapes and protects us, it entertains and challenges us, it aids us in our journey through the ether world of software. It is mysterious; it is at once source code and yet object code. I do not know the name, thus I will call it the Tao of Linux.

If the Tao is great, then the box is stable. If the box is stable, then the server is secure. If the server is secure, then the data is safe. If the data is safe, then the users are happy.

In the beginning there was chaos in Unix.

Tanenbaum gave birth to MINIX. MINIX did not have the Tao.
MINIX gave birth to Linux 0.1 and it had promise.
Linux gave birth to v1.3 and it was good.
v1.3 gave birth to v2.0 and it was better.

Linux has evolved greatly from its distant cousins of the old. Linux is embodied by the Tao.

The wise user is told about the Tao and contributes to it. The average user is told about the Tao and compiles it. The foolish user is told about the Tao and laughs and asks who needs it.
If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao.
Wisdom leads to good code, but experience leads to good use of that code.

The master Cox once dreamed that he was a Kernel. When he awoke he exclaimed: "I don't know whether I am Cox dreaming that I am a Kernel, or a Kernel dreaming that I am Cox!"
The master Linus then said: "The Tao envelopes you. You shall create great code for Linux."
"On the contrary," said Cox, "The Tao has already created the code, I will only have to find it and write it down."

A master was explaining the nature of the Tao to one of his students:
"Is the Tao in the VM subsystem?" he asked. "Yes," replied the master.
"Is the Tao in the scheduler?" he queried again. "The Tao is in the scheduler."
"Is the Tao even in the modules?". "It is even in the modules," said the master.
"Is the Tao in the Low-Latency Patch?"
The master frowned and was silent for much time.
"You fail to understand the Tao. Go away."

The Tao is the yin and the yang. It is the good and the evil, it is everything and yet it is nothing, it is the beginning and the end.

The Tao was there at the kernel compile, and it will be there when the kernel panics.

A novice user once asked a master: "Why compile in C when C++ is more popular?"
"Why a monolythic kernel when Mach is more popular?"
"And why use ReiserFS when ext2 is more popular?"

The master sighed and replied: "Why run Unix when NT is more popular?"
The user was enlightened.

A frustrated user once asked a master: "My kernel has panicked, should I post to lkml?"
"No," replied the master, "You will only bother the Tao."
"Should I rm -rf?"
"No, you will have wasted the Tao's time."
"Well should I search the web?"
"You will search for all eternity," said the master.
"Perhaps I should try FreeBSD?"
"Then you will have disgraced the Tao."
"I suppose I could try gdb," said the user.
The master smiled and replied: "Then you will have made the Tao stronger."

A stubborn user once told a master: "I run version 2.2. I always have, and I always will."
The master replied: "You are foolish and do not understand the Tao. The Tao is dynamic and ever changing. Linux strives for the perfection that is the Tao. It flows from version to version with peace."

"So my Linux does not have the Tao, so what?" said the foolish user. "Oh your Linux is of the Tao," said the master. "However, the Tao of Linux follows the Tao of the C library. One day the C library will change, and your Linux will be left behind." The user was silent.

An angry user once yelled at a master:

"My Linux has panicked! What lousy software it is, I hate it so!"
"You are insulting the Tao," said the master. "The Tao is everywhere bringing order to hundreds of networks, aiding thousands of users, and fighting that of which we call the 'lame.' Do not disrespect the Tao; however, the Tao will forgive you."

"I apologize," said the user, "And I will be more forgiving the next time the Tao fails me."

"The Tao has not failed you, it is you that has failed the Tao," said the master. "The Tao is perfect."
The Tao decides if a kernel shall compile, or if it shall abort.
The Tao decides if a kernel shall boot, or if it shall freeze.
The Tao decides if a kernel shall run, or if it shall panic.
But, the Tao does not decide if a box will have no hardware failures. That is a mystery to everyone.

A young master once approached an old master: "I have a LUG for Linux help. But, I fail to answer my students' problems; they are above me."
The master replied: "Have you taught them of the Tao?" he asked. "How it brings together man and software, yet how it distances them apart; how if flows throughout Linux and transcends its essence?"
"No," exclaimed the apprentice, "These people cannot even get the source untarred."
"Oh, said the master, "In that case, tell them to RTFM."

A master watched as an ambitious user reconstructed his Linux.

"I shall make every bit encrypted," the user said. "I shall use 2048 bit keys, three different algorithms, and make multiple passes."
The master replied: "I think it is unwise."
"Why?" asked the user. "Will my encryption harm the mighty Tao, which gives Linux life and creates the balance between kernel and processes? The mighty Tao, which is the thread that binds the modules and links them with the core? The mighty Tao, which safely guides the TCP/IP packets to and from the network card?"
"No," said the master, "It will hog too much cpu."

The core is like the part of the mind that is static. It is programmed at a child's creation and cannot be changed unless a new child is made; unless a new kernel is compiled.
The modules are like the part of the mind that is dynamic. It is reprogrammed every time one learns new knowledge; every time one learns better code.
One is yin, the other yang. Each is nothing without the other.

A novice came to lkml and inquired to all the masters there: "I wish to become a master. Must I memorize the Linux header files?"
"No," replied a master.
"Must I submit code to Bitkeeper?"
"No," replied the master.
"Must I meditate daily and dedicate my life to Linux?"
"No," replied the master again.
"Must I go on a quest to ponder the meaning of the Tao?"
"No. A master is nothing more than a student who knows something of which he can teach to other students."
The novice understood.
And thus said the master:
"It is the way of the Tao."

A user came to a master who had great status in lkml. The user asked the master: "Which is easier: implementing new features to the kernel or documenting them?"
"Implementing new features," replied the master.
The confused user then exclaimed:
"Surely it is easier to write a few sentences in the man page than it is to write pages of code without error?"
"Not so," said the master. "When coding, the Tao of Linux opens my eyes wide and allows me to see beyond the code, to let the source flow from my fingers, to implement without flaw. When documenting, however, all I have to work with is a C in high school English."

He who compiles from the stable tree is stubborn
and unwilling to change, but is guaranteed reliability.
He who compiles from the current tree is wise but perhaps too conformist, but is guaranteed steadiness.
He who compiles from the unstable tree is adventurous and is guaranteed new innovations: some good, some bad.
He who compiles straight from Bitkeeper is brave but guaranteed turbulence.
They are all of the Tao. One shall respect the old, and debug the new; none shall argue over which is greatest.

There once was a user who scripted in Perl: "Look at what I have to work with here," he said to a master of core, "My code is interpreted dynamically, the syntax is unique and simple, I have sockets, strings, arrays, and everything I could ever need. Why don't you stop meddling in C and come join me?"
The C programmer described his reasoning to the scripter: "Script is to C as ebonics is to Latin. If the scripter does not grow beyond that of which he scripts, he will surely [die]. Besides, without C, how can there be script?"
The scripter was enlightened, and the two became close friends.

MICROSOFT BANNER (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726778)

I just saw a Microsoft banner on /. (promoting Visual Studio .NET). Not sure if this has happened/been posted before, but I found this quite funny and couldn't resist to mention ;-)

The URL: http://ad.doubleclick.net/click;h=v2|2eef|0|0|%2a| c;4787121;0-0;0;7636119;4252-336|280;1817149|18156 78|1;;%3fhttp://msdn.protier.com/admin/skins/vsdem o/freetrial.aspx?source=OSDN_general_banner

(Sorry ppl, won't post any more of this, but just couldn't resist this)

Still useful (5, Interesting)

ekrout (139379) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726788)

My school added an "amazing new webmail feature" this year, but I really wasn't that impressed with it. The sad thing is that they probably paid some company for the webmail app, even though you can download several different ones at freshmeat.net for free.

Anyway, the point is that PINE is still used today even though many consider it antiquated. For people like myself who know all the shortcuts and don't mind an all-text interface, it's superb.

So, PINE is certainly not dead, and many of us still use it on occasion when away from the office. It's much faster than VNCing into your home box and using Outlook.

When you're on the go, give PINE a call ;-)

Re:Still useful (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726805)

*cough* mutt

Re:Still useful (5, Insightful)

Fweeky (41046) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726833)

When you're on the go, give PINE a call;-)

Or mutt, which doesn't have such a large history of security holes, and which has had basic features like threading for years :P

Re:Still useful (5, Insightful)

FFFish (7567) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726858)

And which is now the default email client for my university; they tossed Pine the other week because it's a security risk...

Re:Still useful (3, Informative)

SquadBoy (167263) | more than 10 years ago | (#4727035)

Damned straight. I love my mutt. The one big reason is that I can SSH to my box from anywhere and get my mail. Mutt does in fact rule and it is also free as in speech. :)

Re:Still useful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4727036)

Not to mention a better license.

Re:Still useful (3, Insightful)

coryboehne (244614) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726843)

Really, when I'm on a *nix box I prefer to use Pine over ANY other option.... I actually enjoy the somewhat antiquated interface (reminds me of the good ol' days when that was the only option) and I love the fact that it is super fast.

I can't really understand the reason to add threading support... It's kinda like putting a bigger engine in a Corvette without putting more rubber on the ground.. It's a waste really, the program is so fast already with such low overhead that I have never had any problems with speed... Maybe I'm just missing something and there really is a great reason for this... I just don't see it.

Oh well though, great to see that it is still being maintained by someone, and that there are others out there that care about the wonderful program known to all as PINE.

Re:Still useful (4, Informative)

coryboehne (244614) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726876)

Duh, damn programmer mindset getting me into trouble again....

Now that I look at it again I realize that they don't mean the kind of threading I was thinking about, they mean theading as in nesting.... D'Oh!

Dearest Moderators: This is not flamebait, I am replying to myself to acknoledge that I made a stupid mistake.... thank you.

Re:Still useful (1)

misof (617420) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726942)

Ever been subscribed to a prolific e-mail conferrence? Say hundreds of mails daily? And did you manage to keep track of the separate discussion threads WITHOUT a mail client that supports threading? Well, you have my respect, but I really like the computer to do such things for me...

Re:Still useful (2, Informative)

minektur (600391) | more than 10 years ago | (#4727064)

The short answer to your question is: procmail.

I get about 400 email a day -- several mailing lists that I occasionaly browse, personal, work, etc.

procmail puts them all in different inboxes, and pine lets me just check the inboxes that I feel like looking at...

Re:Still useful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726846)

I love pine because it is so simple I hope they don't change it much feature wise. The best part is it works any where I can put an SSH connection though to my server. Not to mention it doesn't download images I don't want with some HTML interpreter I don't want interpreting spam I don't want.

Use Horde/Imp Webmail! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726863)

My school added an "amazing new webmail feature" this year, but I really wasn't that impressed with it.

That's because they chose the wrong implementation. At our LUG, we use Horde/Imp [yahoo.com] , and are really satisfied with it!

Re:Still useful (5, Interesting)

Chicane-UK (455253) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726887)

Indeed...

I implemented a Web Mail system where I work this year for students - downloaded for free from horde.org [horde.org] . Its a very powerful system and is currently serving 30,000 student accounts on a mid priced Dell server.

But back onto the topic, I have tried quite a few email applications in my time - the college where I work has recently just phased out out old POP3 Linux mail server in favour of an Exchange 2000 server. To be fair, it has been pretty good so far.

But Pine has to be one of my very favourite email apps - small, quick, and very easy to use. I even found that Windows users with no experience of *nix could get to grips with Pine pretty quickly, which is no mean feat.

I'll make sure I download this version :)

Re:Still useful (2, Insightful)

misof (617420) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726904)

Well, pardon me if I'm wrong... but if you are fond of all-text interface (+aalib for viewing attached images, etc. :-) as I am and if you were really willing to learn _all_ the kbd shortcuts in pine, then mutt (and NOT pine) is the right client for you. Mutt has had threading support for _ages_, it is a much more powerful tool and the kbd shortcuts are IMHO more logical, especially to someone used to work with Linux and the editor vim.

Re:Still useful (2)

Fweeky (41046) | more than 10 years ago | (#4727034)

I hated (some) of the keybindings in mutt -- luckily it's pretty trivial to rebind them.

I now control 90% of all my mutt usage from the cursor keys. Right goes into a mbox, then into a mail, then into a list of the parts of a mail, then into individual parts which weren't displayed inline. Left goes in the other direction, and up/down do what you'd expect.

Numpad '0' (bound to next unread message), PageUp/Dn and 'r' make up most of the other 10% :)

9th post! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726789)

Ninth is best you gringos!

threads (1, Insightful)

Orre (452514) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726793)

Hasn't MUTT [mut.org] done that for years. And java to (bah ha im so funny)

Re:threads (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726865)

actually thats muTT.org [mutt.org] (note the 2 T's) The story I heard about mutt was that; pine is a tree, and what do mutt's do to trees?:)

Re:threads (0)

mondoterrifico (317567) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726889)

Just for anyone wondering, its www.mutt.org, not mut.org

Re:threads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726947)

Oops, you typoed. Doesn't matter since it is either down or /.'ed. Here's the google cache of the mirrors page. Not a goat link. Put mutt email mirrors in google and go there yourself if you are paranoid.

Mutt mirrors [216.239.33.100]

Re:threads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726967)

You must be fat.

Evolution in motion (5, Funny)

Delirium Tremens (214596) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726796)

... watching it change is like watching evolution in motion.

Hum, not quite yet [ximian.com] . But, it is definitely catching up.

Re:Evolution in motion (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726934)

Yup, and it's console based too ?
Retard...

Re:Evolution in motion (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4727000)

You must be fat..

Evolution in motion - I think he means (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4727079)

Evolution takes place over EONS, so maybe he meant "glacially slow and painful".

What does pine have againt elm anyway? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726799)

Pine Is Not Elm? wtf?

Pine, Schmine... (4, Funny)

Ryu2 (89645) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726802)

Bah... /usr/ucb/Mail rules!

Re:Pine, Schmine... (5, Funny)

s20451 (410424) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726882)

Real men use cat /var/spool/mail/$USER | more and telnet $SMTP_HOST 25

Re:Pine, Schmine... (0, Flamebait)

Uhh_Duh (125375) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726956)


Real men hate cats -- they're for sissies and people with too much time on their hands.

more /var/spool/mail/$USER

Re:Pine, Schmine... (1, Offtopic)

joe_bruin (266648) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726928)

pfft, who needs your bloated mail clients?

$ more /var/spool/mail/$USER

and mailto(1) to send.

yes, i also browse the web with telnet.

Re:Pine, Schmine... (1)

misof (617420) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726969)

$ more /var/spool/mail/$USER ???

I say:
$ lpr /var/spool/mail/$USER

Pine is EVIL!!! (2)

Longinus (601448) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726806)

Well, maybe not, but seriously, distributing modified binaries of pine is illegal, which really cramps my style ;-). There are other mail readers I would reccomened over pine, namely mutt, or elm, spruce, sylpheed, or balsa, all of which are Free as in speech.

Re:Pine is EVIL!!! (5, Informative)

Servo (9177) | more than 10 years ago | (#4727070)

Not entirely. I used to maintain PINE for Debian quite some time ago.

Because it wasn't entirely "free as in speech", it was required to go into the non-free section. Unless they've drastically changed the license since I last paid any attention to it, it required:

1) Modified versions were required to be designated with a L (iirc) after the version number to signal they had been changed before compiling.

2) You are not allowed to sell the binaries, or distribute them on a "for sale" media.

3) Permission is required before distributing the binaries.

The big deal with Debian was that it could not be included in the normal section because of #2, and I think the powers that be at the time were pissed off at #3 as well. At the time I was managing PINE for Debian, practically all of the other distro's included a compiled version of PINE. It pissed me off because the controlling group within Debian didn't want to work out a deal with UW to allow Pine to be distributed as a normal package within Debian.

FYI, this was back when Bruce Peren's had his weekly temper tantrums and threaten to go work for Redhat instead.

No... PINE Is Not Elm (2)

MarkX (716) | more than 10 years ago | (#4727071)

That's all, nothing more to see here. Move along...

Mark

PS: Couldn't resist.

Evolution in Motion (2)

z84976 (64186) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726808)

Well, slow motion... sometimes it's hard to imagine what they could possibly have done to Pine to enhance it over what I used to use on the old Auburn University VAX's so many years ago, but then again I can't think of any other real application that has aged so well. I first used pine MANY years ago, but most recently used it oh... well... last week probably.


But I think the best reason to love Pine has to be... PICO! Yes! Yes! Flame me! I use PICO!!!

Re:Evolution in Motion (1, Offtopic)

mhesseltine (541806) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726927)

I love pico. I just installed a Debian box, however, and Pine doesn't seem to fit the licensing for Debian, so I installed nano [nano-editor.org] . It's very similar to pico, without the security problems of pine.

I Love Pine! (1)

cpuenvy (544708) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726811)

Long Live Pine! I use it everyday, and it is good to see it evolving. Remember the days of unix apps like Pine and Lynx, and that was the only way to do your work on the Internet? Oh wait, these are still those days...

Don't use it. (5, Informative)

fahrvergnugen (228539) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726815)

FreeBSD says this when I try to make PINE from ports:

SECURITY NOTE: The pine software has had several remote vulnerabilities discovered in the past, which allowed remote attackers to execute arbitrary code as you on your local system, by the action of sending a specially-prepared email. All such KNOWN problems have been fixed, but the pine code is written in a very insecure style and the FreeBSD Security Officer believes there are likely to be other undiscovered vulnerabilities. Do you wish to proceed with the installation of pine anyway?

Does the new version address any of the issues that lead to this message appearing?

Re:Don't use it. (0, Flamebait)

Delirium Tremens (214596) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726842)

Yes, it allows to render BOLD html text as plain text.

Re:Don't use it. (3, Informative)

erik umenhofer (782) | more than 10 years ago | (#4727014)

I believe this warning comes from the fact it requires pico to build. IIRC, pico was the major problem and not pine. Of course, a bug is a bug no matter what the source. Me thinks that's what the problem was.

Re:Don't use it. (0, Troll)

shepd (155729) | more than 10 years ago | (#4727053)

>Does the new version address any of the issues that lead to this message appearing?

I don't know, but if it says that about Pine, imagine the message it must have about OpenSSH!

"We guarantee that if you install this software within 6 months your box will be rootable".

Sorry, I don't run BSD. I don't know if they stick to their principles throughout their software or not... IMHO, I think they would.

32-bit High Res Image of PINE (4, Funny)

ekrout (139379) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726819)

Screenshot [stanford.edu] of PINE in action.

Re:32-bit High Res Image of PINE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726837)

Erm. You linked to a gif. GIF's only support 256 colors, thus your image is only 8 bits.

Re:32-bit High Res Image of PINE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726854)

Erm. I'm pretty sure he was joking. PINE is and always has been a black 'n white text-based emailer. Get it?

Re:32-bit High Res Image of PINE (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726860)

bwahahahahaha. gg ekrout.

Re:32-bit High Res Image of PINE (2)

jkujawa (56195) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726861)

I'm interested in how you got a 32-bit gif.

Re:32-bit High Res Image of PINE (1)

nogoodmonkey (614350) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726909)

it is a mac.. ;-)

+1, funny (3, Funny)

x mani x (21412) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726929)

i dont think anyone realizes that your post is a joke.

Re:+1, funny (2, Funny)

ekrout (139379) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726948)

I know, it's rather depressing.

Where have all the geeks gone? /me weeps

Still loyal (5, Interesting)

doc_traig (453913) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726822)

I'm still a loyal pine user, having cut my teeth first with "mail". What I've noticed, however, is that just about everyone I know who was a happy pine user is now a happy mutt [mutt.org] user. I'm only a holdout on switching because I haven't really investigated the differences (if it ain't broke...), but my sense is that by popular majority among CLI mail readers I know, mutt is where you go to get "better-than-pine".

- DDT

Re:Still loyal (2)

yack0 (2832) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726965)

"All mail clients suck. This one just sucks less." -me, circa 1995

I think 'me' is Jeremy Blosser.

Who cares? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726823)

People use GUI email clients these days.

Kmail forever baby!

Re:Who cares? (1)

Walterk (124748) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726972)

GUIs tend to get sluggish when you're using mail as IM replacement, and have a conversation with 3 of your close friends, and send one liners as response..
At least CLI is buffered, so I can keep on typing those commands to my little mutt (and vim), who can barely keep up, much better than using GUI and the mouse.. bah.. although swamping your connection with like 500 mph (mails per hour) isn't too bright.. especially with including the previous, then you get like 1MB mails.

Still nice to see the others with pine and outlook-clone biting the dust.

PINE should be banned from now on ;) (1)

misof (617420) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726824)

Aaargh... why oh why did they have to add the threading support? Looks like pine starts to be usable.. (It's about time, the version is already 4.50...) And that means less mutt users :(( Mutt is the one and only _real_ mail client! Hypnotoad uses mutt! All hail the hypnotoad!

Feature request (1)

joshua42 (103889) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726825)

But honestly what I really am looking for requires only very little development work. It spells "GPL". Please?

NO. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726950)

NO.

Spam this spammer. She-male porn spam this dude. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726827)

He is spamming me and not removing me from his list.

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License Issues w/ Pine (5, Informative)

irregular_hero (444800) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726830)

Pine is a really nice mail app, for sure. But I still think it has one of the quirkiest licenses [washington.edu] of any source-available application out there. It specifically forbids development and support of branches of the codebase -- if I add a cool new feature that the maintainers refuse to add (web browsing, maybe), then I can't split off and make "Joe's Pine," I have to distribute a diff file with the original source tarball.

Re:License Issues w/ Pine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726895)

the alternative to pico - which is the editor for pine is nano [http] check it out...ofcourse theres mutt [mutt.org] for the pine replacement;)

Re:License Issues w/ Pine (1)

dbenbenn (598130) | more than 10 years ago | (#4727063)

Well, here's a working version [nano-editor.org] of the link above. Nano is GPL, it has the same interface as Pico, and it has a bunch of cool features like multi-buffer support, syntax coloring, and smooth scrolling. (Make sure to get the 1.1.12 "unstable" version.)

Re:License Issues w/ Pine (2, Informative)

dw5000 (540339) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726918)

It specifically forbids development and support of branches of the codebase -- if I add a cool new feature that the maintainers refuse to add (web browsing, maybe), then I can't split off and make "Joe's Pine," I have to distribute a diff file with the original source tarball.

If you ever had to work with the University of Washington's patent and copyright folks, you'd understand. Since the university is an exceedingly underfunded institution, they demand their cut on all patents -- and Japanese companies compensate their internal inventors better.

Trust me, you want to put any homemade mods into your own personal tarball. If not, the University of Washington will act as if your mod is their personal property.

"PINE releases 4.50" (4, Funny)

nakaduct (43954) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726832)

Good for them. I myself just released 2.10, for a can of pop and bag of chips. That comes on the heels of a 1.30 release, into a parking meter.

MOD PARENT UP (FUNNY) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4727073)

I get it, why don't you?

No, thanks (5, Interesting)

huma (8269) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726835)

I stopped using pine as my mail client (about three years
i was using it) for three reasons:

1. Doesn't support Maildir in the main code, only thru third-party patches, and pine guys rejects to add Maildir
support to the code, and nobody can do it and publish it,
because of their license.

2. Is not GPL

3. Mutt is waaaaay more configurable

Dead horse... (1, Troll)

Eric_Cartman_South_P (594330) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726840)

...gets another whack.

PINE in time for Christmas! (4, Funny)

insanecarbonbasedlif (623558) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726841)


Get your brand new green PINE tree in time to decorate for christmas! You could mod it with all blue lights... imagine a beowulf cluster of christmas trees! Merry Christmas to all!

Seriously though, threads help a ton in organizing messages. :)

Re:PINE in time for Christmas! (4, Funny)

yack0 (2832) | more than 10 years ago | (#4727030)

Sorry, those blue lights aren't accepted into the changefiles, so they'll have to go. You may not release your own blue-light-PINE either.

Book em Dano

j

In other news... (4, Insightful)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726850)

In other news, pine would have done this years ago had it truly been free software. Since they don't allow people to distribute modified versions, and they don't like to accept featere enhancements nobody does any work on it. For that reason, everybody with the patience to look for and learn something better has moved on to other text based mail clients.

Wow. (-1, Flamebait)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726864)

Damn, I can't believe this ancient thing still exists. And in development, no less.

Though, I still use pico to edit config files and the such, since its light, simple, and has just enough features to get stuff done.

But wow. A new version.

Whats the phrase I'm searching for?

Oh yeah.. "WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK?!"

are you kidding? (2)

noahbagels (177540) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726867)

quote:
watching it change is like watching evolution in motion

this is a bad pun, or a bad joke, or a funny mistake

I would say (4, Informative)

emag (4640) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726983)

..."because it's slow and messy"...

Pine was nice 10 years ago, easier to figure out (for me) than elm, nicer than mail and Mail. But, well, changes take a damned long time coming, and some things (like newsgroup support) seemed to be added for "gee whiz" reasons before things that make reading large mailing lists useful (like threading).

As others have said, most everyone with patience to learn something else has moved on. Most of the people I know have moved on to mutt [mutt.org] . And yes, someone's pointed out to me the default keybindings match elm. I guess as you grow and learn . . .

Re:are you kidding? (3, Funny)

miTTio (24893) | more than 10 years ago | (#4727023)

quote:
watching it change is like watching evolution in motion

this is a bad pun, or a bad joke, or a funny mistake


D. All of the above

Does it.. (2)

Alomex (148003) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726868)


Did they fix the Ctrl-H Backspace bug?

Can it understand more than one local sender address as not to be included in the reply set?

version number management (5, Insightful)

jki (624756) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726870)

Imagine that pine was first released in 1989 [washington.edu] and yet the latest version number is reasonable. If this was something else - going to be polite and not mention it :) - you know what it would be like. I mean there's a point in it - the project is more than 10 years old but has stayed very consistent for the whole time. And talking about email clients, that's a miracle.

Have you ever read the project history linked above: " Our goal was to provide a mailer that naive users could use without fear of making mistakes. We wanted to cater to users who were less interested in learning the mechanics of using electronic mail than in doing their jobs; users who perhaps had some computer anxiety". I think they have succeeded well, even now when everyone is used to having all the graphical bells and whistles my Mom - who had never used email before, learned pine quicker than outlook (she never learnt to use it, actually).

Pine (2, Insightful)

sevensharpnine (231974) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726873)

Pine was my first e-mail app too. But a single view of those old text menus (and memories of mails lost/rewritten) would send me running to the nearest GUI-driven mail program I could find.
Use only as needed (imho).

Hmmm... (1)

T3kno (51315) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726899)

Is the Pine vs. Elm debate as heated as the Vi vs. Emacs controversy? If so, my vote goes for Elm.

One question (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726900)

Is this the release thats supposed to make it fun
?

watching it change...? (2)

johnrpenner (40054) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726903)

watching it change is like watching evolution in motion

it doesn't change - people change it.

and the people have changed it well - way to go pine!

j. [earthlink.net]

Users? (3, Insightful)

livio (583002) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726906)

I'm really curious to know how many users still use pine? I remember when I first got in college, it was the "easiest" mail application for an UNIX-newbie, so I used it for about a week (I didn't like it, so I found out about Emacs VM and never used pine again :-), but now I think things have changed a bit, no?

I mean, very new users tend to use graphical interfaces for almost everything... And there are plenty graphical MUAs ou there. And old, more "advanced" users tend to use more sofisticated or powerful MUAs (graphical or non-graphical), like Emacs' VM, Mutt, etc.

So.... does Pine really still maintain a user-base? If so, what would be the reasons for these users sticking with Pine? (As you can see, I'm not a Pine fan ;), but anyways, I'd like to hear from those who are...).

Don't care about PINE, love PICO (2, Informative)

ecliptik (160746) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726915)

I for one really don't care about Pine that much as as mail program. I love Pico, the wonderful little text editor that comes with it. Yeah I know there's the GPL nano, but I'm still pico all the way, and put it on every unix machine I use. It's nice to see that the one app I use probably more than any other is still in development.

Pico rules! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4726920)

Pico (the simple text editor that comes with Pine) should be a standard feature with every *nix distribution... it's hard enough for newbies to fix problems and set up features on their new machines without having to struggle through vi (or clugging through whatever GUI text editor the distributor's peddling).

Re:Pico rules! (2, Informative)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#4727003)

I thought it was?

Ah well, I always use it. It's part of slackware, which is all I ever needed to set up any servers.

It's pretty good. A little feature light and glitchy.

Like if you wrap text past the screen, it has a nasty habit of starting a newline, so you have to delete the newline, etc. Pain in the ass for long lines in config files.

First?! (5, Funny)

sielwolf (246764) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726938)

Ah, my first "real" e-mail program


Careful, captain. Some of us are still using Pine.

Of course I'm not surprised by the reaction. My mother saw me sshing to my box once and said "Oh God, that brings back horrible memories..." Who says that UI has nothing to do with End User acceptance? Me personally: I love it. But to most people its like "Why do you go out hunting with a bow and arrow when we can get perfectly good meat down at the Kroger?"

Pine Users: the Ted Nugents of the Computing World!

Re:First?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4727009)

No, Ted Nugent is cool....

Re:First?! (2)

scumdamn (82357) | more than 10 years ago | (#4727037)

Not even! I use pine every day also, but that's just because I like pico so much. I've hated all the Unix text-mode editors except pico, so pine was just natural for me to start using. And I guess I've stuck with it because I'm lazy.

I almost hit CTRL-x, y to submit the post.

le mot juste (2, Insightful)

happystink (204158) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726966)

Evolution in motion eh Hemos? As opposed to evolution which doesn't go forward, or uhh..

Pine is great, but the licence... (2, Interesting)

lakeland (218447) | more than 10 years ago | (#4726977)

Pine is a great email program. Using only a console it somehow manages to be easier to use than most GUI programs. The error messages are an example of brilliant UI design.

Unfortunatly the licence is not good. While the source is available, distributing changed versions is illegal. This for example makes it illegal for Debian to fix its paths and distribute it, or for me to make a graphical version (anyone remember xpine?)

That means I've now given up on it. Fortunatly there are fairly good replacements, like mutt with pine bindings, or kmail via aalib.

Any application which disables CTRL-Z by default.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4727002)

...instantly gets rm -rf'd by me. Talk about annoying defaults - pine's full of them. Switch to mutt!

Still no S/MIME plugins. Thank you, move along (3, Informative)

Stonehead (87327) | more than 10 years ago | (#4727038)

A quick search on the changelog reveals nothing improved about the years-old problems [washington.edu] with Pine and S/MIME. It simply can't invoke plugins for GPG to check or generate messages that have the GPG signature as an attachment. Which means that 80% of the GPG-signed email that I get is useless and that Pine still does not handle the S/MIME RFC. (The other 20% is handled by patches or stopgaps [quantumlab.net] .)
Sigh. I know Mutt is better, but I still use Pine 4.44. I just don't trust those scripts that add Pine keybindings to Mutt.. :)

evolution? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#4727058)

Too bad evolution is child's play. Like Santa Claus, it's make believe.

evolution is faster (3, Funny)

bobv-pillars-net (97943) | more than 10 years ago | (#4727075)

watching it change is like watching evolution in motion.

...except that evolution is faster.

Score: -1 (Troll)

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