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DSL Rising

Hemos posted more than 11 years ago | from the got-to-keep-on-rising dept.

News 402

Steve wrote to us with an article about the rise of DSL throughout the world. What I find most interesting is the discussion about cable vs. DSL; in the United States cable is winning, but globally, DSL holds the cake.

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402 comments

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nig (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899619)

nig nig nig nig nig nig.

NIG!

First post? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899627)

No, not quick enough.....is this why people get DSL?

YOU FAIL IT (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899653)

I'm really getting tired of doing this every time, can one of you other trolls please pick up the torch? I've got an exam for the next 3 hours, so at least until 5:30. Thanks.

YOU FAIL IT!

Re:YOU FAIL IT (0, Troll)

mstyne (133363) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899809)

I've got an exam for the next 3 hours

YOU FAIL IT!

DSL and Cable are great... (4, Interesting)

Randolpho (628485) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899629)

But they're national network only solutions. Local ISPs have no real broadband alternative available to them yet.

Hopefully 802.11(x) will allow the little guys to compete.

Re:DSL and Cable are great... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899661)

is that a "I want to post something quick in the vain attempt at gaining karma so I'll make a half-heatred vaguely on-topic comment" type comment?

Re:DSL and Cable are great... (3, Insightful)

dirvish (574948) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899798)

All the local ISPs in my area are selling DSL. I guess they are just re-selling Pac Bell's DSL...is that your point?

Re:DSL and Cable are great... (3, Informative)

Randolpho (628485) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899869)

All the local ISPs in my area are selling DSL. I guess they are just re-selling Pac Bell's DSL...is that your point?

Yes. Local ISPs (like the one I work for) make little to no profit on resold DSL. If they make any profit per connection at all, it's because they charge more than the phone company does for the same service.

Ironically, that usually means they still make no profit.

DSL and ODK (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899632)

OpenDK [fazigu.org] helps to takedown the DSL barriers in rural areas. It is being implimented many places that just can not afford pay-for-it "pro" software versions.

Re:DSL and ODK (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899848)

This is a troll that is being posted in every article. Please mod appropriately.

TROLL ALERT! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899872)

This guy attaches himself to good info and asks it to be modded down! Please nuke him appropriately.

Yo (0)

norculf (146473) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899636)

Too bad capitalism is keeping the broadband market f**ed up.

Is this first? Probably not, what with all the leet script kiddies taking a break from packeting dal.net to ping -f slashdot.org.

Next month news: DSL Dropping.... (3, Interesting)

semifamous (231316) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899637)

Wireless seems to be getting better and better all the time. Now that the hardware and software actually work well, this little ISP (that I work for) is actually able to provide a decent service without having to go throught he monopolistic phone company or the incompetent cable co...

Re:Next month news: DSL Dropping.... (1)

Randolpho (628485) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899667)

Semifamous -- what ISP do you work for? I also work for a local ISP and we're currently looking into wireless as a broadband alternative. I'm curious how you set yourselves up.

Re:Next month news: DSL Dropping.... (2)

dohcvtec (461026) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899838)

There's a wireless ISP in my area that offers apparently good service, at prices roughly the same as cable; thing is, on their website, they mention initial fixed equipment costs at $500-1000. If it weren't for the high initial cost, I'd switch in a heartbeat.

DSL == LSD (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899641)

For those of you who noticed that the submitter is dyslexic, the article is really about LSD, not DSL.

And of course LSD is beating out Cable. There's just no comparison in the forms of wholesome entertainment.

The First One (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899644)

Ha Ha Ha, Number One Post BABY!

Insert stupid comment (brag, advertisement, etc.) here.

Slashdot.Org forever!

Re:The First One (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899787)

NOT EVEN CLOSE!

YOU FAIL IT!

more productive? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899645)

"Many legislators believe faster Web access can make people more productive at their jobs and help increase the gross domestic product . . ."

Unfortunately, I think that they don't take into account what a small proportion of those people would religiously read slashdot.

Try reading something more insaine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899647)

like, SPORKS! [sporks-r-us.com]

DSL? (-1)

Qwaz (250711) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899649)

Opensource Audio Forums [pentameter.org] Neat-o! :)

Kind of Like GSM & T/CDMA (1)

syntap (242090) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899654)

For some reason US goes in a different technological direction and =US. It's usually equivilent, but parallel advances.

Re:Kind of Like GSM & T/CDMA (2, Interesting)

syntap (242090) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899681)

I guess equal than, lesser than symbols don't get posted. Let me rephrase from Pascal to Java:

For some reason != US goes in a different technological direction than == US. It's usually equivilent, but parallel advances.

Why DSL is failing in the US (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899658)

http://www.directtvdsl.com/

Hmm.. interesting... (3, Insightful)

McFly69 (603543) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899660)

Thats funny.... Steve wrote to us with an article about the rise of DSL throughout the world. Is this why they I am losing my Directv Dsl [slashdot.org] so others can use it throughtout the world??

DSL is better (2, Insightful)

ccgr (612619) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899662)

I would prefer DSL over cable but alas I cannot get either. Too far for DSL and even though I have access to digital cabel they don't offer cable internet. Wireless is not an option, trees int he way. And Satellite has limits on downloading (169MB in 8 hours!) I'm stuck with 56K woe is me

Re:DSL is better (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899729)

Where do you live?

Have it, love it (2, Interesting)

RalphJay (617820) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899663)

I've had ADSL for a couple of months now, and I love it. It's very reliable and the speed is always consistent - which is about the complete opposite of what many Dutch cable-internet providers are selling.

This is really great news (-1, Troll)

PhysicsGenius (565228) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899666)

With broadband becoming more and more available, I hope we will see an increase in choice regarding things like where people get their news from and so forth. Diversity of opinion == good.

Unfortunately, broadband is only part of the picture. It isn't enough for people to be passive consumers of information. They must contribute to the global dialog. In order to do this, they have to publish to the web. The problem here, is that only the rich can afford an easy to use web publishing package like FrontPage running on Windoes XP/2000. Everyone else is forced to use a free but hard to use knock-off like Linux to make their voices heard.

Maybe if the terrorists had been able to participate in the global economy, they wouldn't have attacked us so viciously. Perhaps we should send them a complimentary copy of Windows. Just my $.02.

Free FrontPage, that'll cure the world's ills. (2, Insightful)

VT_hawkeye (33442) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899763)

Riiiiiiiiiight.

Funny, I can put together a pretty nice-looking website with any of several Windows text-editors. And there are free/low-cost WYSIWYG packages out there (some are old, but still usable).

I hope that's sarcasm, because if not, you're inventing a problem that doesn't exist in order to promote a class-warfare agenda.

methinks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899860)

YHBT

Re:This is really great news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899779)

If you want to be really picky all someone needs to publish is a text editor and a book on how to program HTML, or perl, or python, or anything else a webpage would use.

But let's not quibble over facts, the in-tar-wheb is the playground of the rich after all

Re:This is really great news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899807)

Sigh.. I miss the old days of slashdot when trolls just said,"I poured hot grits down my pants!" and such easy to distinguish crap versus the new trolls who spout random half real, half flame inducing crap.. Read this guys back comments sometime..
This particular piece of drivel isn't even worth responding to in a serious manner...

Newsflash (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899823)

The trolls have always been spouting real crap. If you haven't noticed it until now, YHBT.

You are mistaken, sir (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899844)

Linux is for us. The eccentric, anti-social, and super-intelligent humans.

We dont want you infecting Linux with your stupidity and then complaining about copy-paste operations between applications that should have never been developed for Linux anyways.

I hope that Linux developers get this straight. Dont waste your time developing applications like Kspread or Kword in order to satisfy these business minded secretaries.

Linux is made for Science, Network Serving, High-End image processing etc. Windows has dominated the boring business world because thats what drove them in the first place.

We are a new generation of Unix users. Unix is still the most powerful operating system historically known. And its here to stay.

However, the lack of Intelligence in this world drives Microsofts popularity higher and higher.

I do not welcome Microsoft Supporters in the Linux world.
You get it? Stay away from Linux. I hate you, Linux hates you, we all hate you.

You are not our customers, therefore you are not right. We are not here to service you. Either you like or you dont.

And one more complaint. There are so many "so-called experts" on this site. Yes, many of you are so articulate about your criticism against Linux. You dont know shit, even you have your degrees.

When I get my degree, I will find you somewhere and test how smart you really are about Computer Science. Yes Im on the way. You will suffer from embarassment, I will put you on the spotlight and make you choke on your statements.

I dont have a degree now, but I have a common sense that is more effective than all your education and expirience put together. You are the kind of people tha spend hours, days, and weeks reading manuals and then calling technical-support at a call-center that hires greduates from idiot trade schools and barely made it through highschools to give you answers. Me, I just throw the book on the floor, and figure it out in a matter of hours(depending on what the problem is).

Yes you really lack the basic intelligence, you may know how to read, write, speak, and solve major mathematical equations, but you lack common sense, and therefore are in no positions to criticise Linux in any way, shape, or form.

You are just taking unjustified advantage of the First Amendment of the Constitution.

You are IDIOTS!!!!
You are IDIOT!!!
We are SUPERIOR!!!

Re:You are mistaken, sir (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899895)

The eccentric, anti-social, and super-intelligent humans

Thanks! Oh, Jesus, I needed that one this morning. It took nearly ten minutes to wipe the tears away and compose myself to write this response.

You may be on to something (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899871)

Notice how the people promoting Linux are the same ones who are out to destroy the big businesses that have made America great? I wonder if Stallman and Nader and so on are in al Qaeda cells...

cable IS better (3, Interesting)

visionsofmcskill (556169) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899673)

I hate to say it, but i had DSL installed 2 months ago and had continual headaches with it.... between loosing connectivity due to crappy PPOE software, inability to host web services on the line for the same reason, pain in the ass phone filters all over my house and other various odities i became frustrated.

Now add to that the fact that Cable is Faster and works invisibly to my machine (DHCP) gives me an accesable IP and has no additional hardware (phone filters) yada yada yada.... Why WOULD i want DSL...

i opted out of DSL for cable within a month an have never been happier

Re:cable IS better (5, Informative)

darkfrog (98352) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899774)

I think the majority of the problem is the DSL providers making it HELL to use. Mostly the Bells trying to control their network by installing their sh*t all over your computer, giving you USB modems that suck, and generally giving crappy service. I had an excellent small time DSL provider that gave me INCREDIBLE service without the headaches and I would go back to them in a heartbeat, but the bells are completely worthless from day 1. Cable on the other hand almost always use ethernet modems from my experience and don't tend to install much if any special software on your PCs and don't hassle you as much...
just my experience and $.02

Cable is Better in YOUR area (5, Informative)

MosesJones (55544) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899793)


My DSL has DHCP, an accessible IP, has a small cable I plug into the phone socket which isn't exactly much.

Oh and Cable isn't in my area. In most of Europe Satellite TV rules the roost, except for major cities and even there Sat tends to have an edge. Europe didn't spend the 50s,60s and 70s installing a cable TV network, it went straight from terrestrial to Satellite. This means that the only network that is EVERYWHERE is the Phone network hence DSL.

So you'd want DSL if you were in a place where the investment in the Phone infrastructure has been going for the 40 years that cable investment has been going in the US.

This is why no-one is suprised (except the Slashdot editor) that Cable is big in the US and DSL big everywhere else. Its sort of like saying "Hey look CDMA is big in the US but GSM is big everywhere else".

Re:cable IS better (5, Interesting)

MeNeXT (200840) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899808)

Now add to that the fact that Cable is Faster



This is like saying that a 5 lane highway is faster than a 3 lane highway. It's how many people or on that counts, and what speed limit is permited



I see no diff between the two.

Re:cable IS better (3, Interesting)

sporty (27564) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899846)

...between loosing connectivity due to crappy PPOE software, inability to host web services on the line for the same reason,


That is dependent on your DSL provider, no? I have a dsl bridge, so my traffic is raw. Unfortunately, acedsl, in ny, is a shitty provider as well. I see other people's arp requests. They use a software router that will ban arp's that aren't listed in their db at a 5 minute refresh rate. Stupid stupid stupid.

pain in the ass phone filters all over my house


Sounds like your place didn't have dsl installed on a particular extension in your house. It was done like that for me. One jack had it installed, one phone filter.. don't notice anything.

Now add to that the fact that Cable is Faster and works invisibly to my machine (DHCP) gives me an accesable IP and has no additional hardware (phone filters) yada yada yada.... Why WOULD i want DSL...


Depends on where you live. Because your line becomes dedicated in DSL, you can have guaranteed line speeds TO your isp. With cable, correct me if I'm wrong (nicely), hubs/switches are installed regionally. Small regions... like 1 per house or set of houses. They can become saturdated if you are in an apt building and have a lot of downloaders. Some places, 1.5Mb/s is about $40. In nyc, it is a bit pricier.

Why would you want dsl? Some cable providers filter, manipulate and/or track. I can't speak for who-does-what, but I've heard stories. You can't find a mom-and-pop cable provider that has nice restrictions. I don't like AceDSL? I can go to clound9, or speakeasy or nyct.net. There are more than a dozen out in brooklyn. Cable? All i have is cablevision. I don't care for them much, but i have more choices.

Maybe cable is great for you, but dsl does have its merits and advantages depending on who you are :)

Re:cable IS better??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899851)

First of all, almost all of the carriers have explicitly in their contracts: thou shalt not host any service. Is it crappy that you can't do what you're not supposed to do?!?!? :-)

I have tremendous success with DSL. I have a tiny pc shoved away in a corner running Coyote Linux as my router / firewall / DHCP server. I have not had a problem in the (over four) years I have been running this configuration. The only downtime was power outages. The connection is solid and completely invisible.

BTW - I installed the phone filters, and haven't had any pain in my ass. ;-P

I tried Roger's Cable. That sucked big time! My service was down and out about every half hour. True download time could be up to 50% faster, but that fact is that the increase in speed was not the case for all downloads and it certainly wasn't all the time. It was a crap shoot.

I choose the slightly slower, but vastly more stable DSL.

Re:cable IS better (2)

gosand (234100) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899854)

I hate to say it, but i had DSL installed 2 months ago and had continual headaches with it.... between loosing connectivity due to crappy PPOE software, inability to host web services on the line for the same reason, pain in the ass phone filters all over my house and other various odities i became frustrated. Now add to that the fact that Cable is Faster and works invisibly to my machine (DHCP) gives me an accesable IP and has no additional hardware (phone filters) yada yada yada.... Why WOULD i want DSL...

I guess there are good and bad experiences with both. I have had Earthlink DSL for about a year, and only had one instance of downtime for about 6 hours (power cycling the modem cured it). I use an old Pentium machine as my firewall and it runs pppoe with a dynamic IP (all under Linux). I have a domain registered with dyndns, and it works like a charm in updating when my IP changes (rarely). The phone filters are unobtrusive. I get great download speeds, can (unofficially) host a web/game server, and haven't had to call tech support once. I was leery of getting DSL because of the horror stories I had heard, but when I signed up, my line was active in 2 days, I had to wait 10 days to get the modem!

I am moving within the next few months, and only hope that where I move is capable of DSL. It is my first choice, but if I can't get it cable will be my second. I had better be able to get one or the other, or I will be pissed. Have a high-speed always-on connection has spoiled me.

Re:Oragnes ARE better (1)

JVert (578547) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899875)

I used to like apples over oranges, but one time I bit into a rotten apple, so I tried an orange and it was really great! Some people say bananas are great but cause they are really easy to share, well they are wrong, I've never tried bannanas so they obviously are not that good.

This is not offtopic! If you must mod me down do it cause I did a poor job! But people become so gradeschool in defending one technology over the other when %99 your defending your provider not your technology.
*rereads parent* omg, 5? i'm going down for sure!

Re:cable IS better (5, Insightful)

BShive (573771) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899887)

Funny, my experience with Cable is the exact opposite of yours. If I had the choice right now I'd switch to DSL in a heartbeat. Many times the Cable/DSL debate comes down to the quality of the provider, not one technology being better than the other.

Re:cable IS better (1)

leviramsey (248057) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899893)

Nice troll. I'll bite anyway.

There's a difference between the technology (DSL vs. cable) and the people who provide the service. YOu got a piece of shit ISP, plain and simple.

With my DSL, I pay $50/month, got a static IP, excellent uptime, and no TOS restrictions (short of a monthly upload limit of 2GB which I never came close to using up). The phone filters a slight pain in the ass, but that's the price you pay. Of course, I was with DirecTV DSL, so I'll have to go to crappier service now.... i wish SpeakEasy was available in my area.

B-jA (2)

dirvish (574948) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899674)

It is time to go back to your roots and fight the temptation to obtain more bandwidth. See my sig.

"holds the cake?" (n/t) (1)

naejulak (586787) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899677)

(n/t)

Just a small point (2, Funny)

Real World Stuff (561780) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899679)

"; in the United States cable is winning, but globally, DSL holds the cake."

Ahem...Takes the cake, TAKES the cake, what a wordsmith.

Re:Just a small point (1)

dirvish (574948) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899711)

I downmod my freaks on principle

I don't use the friend feature because I upmod my real friends on principle. I like the downmodding freaks idea though.

Its not fair! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899684)

BT STILL hasnt upgraded my town's exchange for ADSL! [uk.com] . But I got broadband from Telewest now so BT can rot in hell!

Doesn't Matter (2, Interesting)

E-Rock-23 (470500) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899686)

I still can't get either-or in my little podunk redneck town. Sucks being the only geek in the county. Whichever becomes available first, I'm going to jump on with reckless abandon. And I pray that it's Cable. I've seen both in action (Verizon DSL and Adelphia PowerLink), and Cable, for my needs, is the easy way to go.

Now, if those corporate control freaks would just get off their keisters and hardwire my town, I could pay their salaries...

Um... (2)

Christopher_G_Lewis (260977) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899741)

Adelphia's Cable Modems Compromised [slashdot.org]

Easy, yes. Secure? Private?

Maybe. Maybe Not.

Re:Um... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899870)

Just put a Linux firewall in front of the cable modem.

nice, but... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899687)

That's nice, but for those of us still in the boonies (I connect at 24kbps on my 56 modem, due to phone line quality) who will never see cable or DSL, what kind of alternatives are there? Wireless is a no-go (no LOS to a good point for a central AP), satellite sucks for gaming (which is my killer app for bandwidth), so I guess I have to wait for my neighbors to realize that they too need a fast connection - then we can form a Network Neighborhood with a leased line and wireless with coffee can antennas.

Laws to help DSL penetration? (5, Interesting)

MasterOfMagic (151058) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899688)

"If you show a politician some of these numbers, this should get them into action," Rodey said.

In other words, what Mr. Rodney is trying to say is that the United States needs laws to help DSL penetration and to give DSL providers a competitive advantage in the United States. Excuse me Mr. Rodeny, isn't it your department to become competitive?

I have DSL through BellSouth, and I had to call them today because they billed me incorrectly. Two weeks ago I had to call them because I wasn't getting synch. A week before that I had to call them because something else wasn't working. (It's turned out that a BBG is down.) Yet this entire time my friend with cable didn't have to call his provider, got better speeds, and doesn't have to pay a mint to the phone company.

What am I missing? Do DSL companies not want customers? Can they not do regular network maintanence or bill correctly? It seems that cable internet providers can do all this and cheaper. Kind makes me want to switch to cable.

Re:Laws to help DSL penetration? (3, Insightful)

glwtta (532858) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899776)

What am I missing? Do DSL companies not want customers? Can they not do regular network maintanence or bill correctly? It seems that cable internet providers can do all this and cheaper. Kind makes me want to switch to cable.

I have DSL through Covad (ATT is the actual ISP), I've had it for a few years now, I've never had to call them once, it's never been down and it's probably faster than your friend's cable (of course, it may not be). It's expensive, but mostly because I need decent upstream bandwidth (oddly enough, for work).

The point being that comparing two companies isn't necessarily comparing cable to DSL.

US vs other Nations (5, Informative)

vor (142690) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899690)

Many areas of the US can't get DSL service due to their distance from the phone company central office. So they are left with no choice but to get cable, if it's availible.

I fell into this category, as even though DSL was availible in my town (a suburb outside of NYC), I was wayyyy too far from the central office to get DSL. Only just recently did my local cable supplier begin offering broadband.

In smaller countries with more concentrated populations, more people live within the appropriate distance from the central office. Hence the larger amount of people with DSL service.

Re:US vs other Nations (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899760)

That's why South Korea has a large percentage of broadband users. When you have 90% of the country living in or around Seoul it's so much easier to deploy dsl. Not only that, but many asian country's urban centers have higher population densities than large U.S. urban areas.

Actual provider choice. (2)

Agent Green (231202) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899691)

Short of the Verizon local loop that I need to live with, at least with DSL I can choose a provider who doesn't treat me like a complete computer illiterate.

In my old AT&T Broadband area, they were the only game around until RCN took interest in the town. Where I'm at now, I'd be stuck with Charter Pipeline and there are no other options.

So I got DSL when I moved. While Covad/VZ provide the local loop and data-link layer, I can choose from a number of companies to take care of the network stuff...and for that I am glad.

Good reason too (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899694)

There is a good reason for DSL winning world wide and loosing in the US. First of all most countries do not have a cable TV system like the US, so it would take a lot of money to drop cable, just to compete with an infrastructure that is already there. On the other hand in the US we have cable TV, and well the cable companies are big media companies that can offer better service at a lower price than DSL here, because they can pad their losses with moeny they make on other products, not so for the hurting telecom industry. Microsoft and other large companies do this to get a hold of the market.

Of course there's a US-others difference. (1)

VT_hawkeye (33442) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899698)

Cable TV is not nearly as popular elsewhere, and I would venture a guess that not nearly as many homes are pre-wired for cable service elsewhere.

There's POTS just about everywhere (everywhere that is affluent enough to consider high-speed Internet access, that is). DSL over the already-installed telco line, versus having to deal with yet another set of wires coming into the house. No contest there. Plus COs are probably a lot closer together elsewhere, due to higher population densities -- that 3-mile limit wipes out the DSL potential for lots of suburban areas in the US.

Here cable is faster for download (if run by a competent provider), readily available (just plug in the splitter and wires you get for free when you buy the cable modem at Circuit City) and cheaper per-month. You do the math.

I had DSL when I was at school, b/c of the incompetence of our cable provider. Now I've got a cable modem.

both technologies won't take off until... (3, Insightful)

newsdee (629448) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899704)

...internet usage becomes more mainstream worldwide.

In South Korea almost everyone is aware of new computer technology, to the point of housewives watching virtual sports on TV such as starcraft or soccer simulation competitions. That would explain the high rate of DSL usage, because the desirability for a high speed connection increases with awareness.

On the other side of the ocean, DSL and Cable are relatively expensive, and only used by people with enough knowledge to feel a need for it or enough diposable income to feel a want (even if not needed) for it.

Maybe if we reduce computer prices (I'm sure a $100 internet-enabled PC compatible would sell very well in supermarkets), and phone companies include cheaper DSL for their subscribers, then we would see a significant rise in usage.

I believe (5, Insightful)

Apreche (239272) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899706)

That there are two main factors in this.

The first is that the US is large and other countries, for the most part, are small. Geographically speaking that is. I understand the DSL has a limited range and that you must be within X miles of certaint equipment in order for it to work. Cable modems don't have this limitation.

The other reason is that in america a great deal of the telephone wire (which DSL runs on) is complete crap. I went to Israel a couple years ago. The pay phones are so cool, they don't take change, only cards, and they have lcd screens. Not only that, but I was in this guys house, and I thought I saw a cat5 plug in the wall, but I was wrong. It was the telephone. Their telephone infrastructure is 1000 times more modern than ours.

That's the big problem with america. Our country is so large that in a time of rapid technological change we can't change our infrastructure fast enough to keep up with the rest of the world. It's feasable for say japan to cover its entire country in an amazing wireless network. Not so for the US. Cable modems require no new infrastructure. They just require people who already have cables coming into their house to get another wire run inside. DSL requires the phone company to update its stuff and put up new equipment.

From my experience though, DSL is cheaper, faster, and more reliable. And if your provider doesn't suck, they don't limit your bandwith.

Re:I believe (2)

newsdee (629448) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899825)

The pay phones are so cool, they don't take change, only cards, and they have lcd screens.[...] I thought I saw a cat5 plug in the wall, but I was wrong. It was the telephone.

France has also very advanced phones, and they even invented the calling card with a chip for it. ^^ But in this case the technology quickly rose because the government had a monopoly on telecommunications until recently.

And that's a mixed blessing. At the beginning of the 80's France Telecom introduced the Minitel, which was an unexpensive mini computer terminal, using teletext but allowing user input via an integrated keyboard. The problem is that it became such a cash cow that they NEVER updated the technology.

People from all ages still use it today, and at first sight it's hard to understand why they haven't updated it to offer a small computer terminal that can access the internet. My theory is that it's because of their revenues: the Minitel relies on company servers (like BBSes) and since what you pay depends on each connection (much more expensive depending where you log in). The Internet, on the other hand, cannot be billed in the same way... you can bill per time usage but not per site. It's sad to see that even a government company can have a great technology wasted to maximize profit.

The U.S. has more competition, so a technology like the Minitel could have worked and would be updated faster. Meanwhile (around 1995), France Telecom was still trying to convince people to stay on the Minitel for e-mail (and thus pay much more)...

DSL is just better (1)

DougJohnson (595893) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899709)

Except for the ease of deployment DSL is simply a more stable, scalable and secure solution to broadband. I for one don't want to be on the same network segment as hundreds of other subscribers.

Cable is winning in the states because it was more readily deployed. Poor solutions often are. It came to my neighborhood about 6 months before DSL was offered, and most of my neighbors signed up. Now they each complain that when it's busy (when they're on) it's slow, getting to top speed only when the log on in the early morning or late night.

DSL wins when their is no cable (4, Insightful)

hhawk (26580) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899714)

Most of the places around the world don't have cable like we do (large and going pass most homes), and they also have teleco companies with huge national power. SO while DSL is winning, it isnt' because it's the better choice, it's winning more by default and by the control of the marketplace by Teleco companies.

One major DSL problem (5, Interesting)

exp(pi*sqrt(163)) (613870) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899717)

In my experience telephone lines in the Bay Area are not really suitable for reliable DSL service. A bit of weather (like last night, but not also on much milder days too) and signal quality degrades. For voice it just produces crackling on the line but it kills DSL. If I speak to Pac-Bell (or whatever name my local phone monopoly has this week) the response is simply "it's raining, that's normal". DSL runs over ordinary telephone lines which were not designed to carry high bandwidth data.

With Cable I experienced a reliable weather-independent service.

Holds the Cake? (5, Funny)

Tsar (536185) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899718)

in the United States cable is winning, but globally, DSL holds the cake.

I'm still giggling over this, and I have no idea why it's so funny. "Holds the cake?" Where did THAT expression come from? I suppose if the shoe were on the other hand, I'd have just turned the other chin, 'cause I hate to kick a man while he's spitting into the wind. But a closed mouth gathers no foot, so I'll say my two scents' worth and walk off into the sunspot.

Re:Holds the Cake? (2)

sporty (27564) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899874)

Well, if you wanna eat your cake, who would you rather holding it? :)

It's probably because of something stupid like... (0)

Lord of the Fries (132154) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899723)

People measure cable in "miles", but DSL lines in "kilometers".

Seriously, if the techno giant US still uses the english measurement system when the rest of the world uses metric, that we're bucking something like the DSL trend shouldn't surprise anyone.

Re:It's probably because of something stupid like. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899857)

Its not the "english" system, its the "imperial" system.

Thanks for rubbing salt in my wounds (5, Funny)

asdfasdfasdfasdf (211581) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899725)

Considering MY DSL provider [directvdsl.com] just tanked. [slashdot.org]

Thanks Slashdot, for making the holidays truly happy. ;-)

Re:Thanks for rubbing salt in my wounds (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899758)

My provider is Telstra, beat that.

Whohoo! (1)

freejung (624389) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899726)

Bandwith!

Could finally be time to bring on the heavy graphics!

Had both and (1)

Contrarygirl (616555) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899733)

I prefer cable. DSL was slower and even with those filters, the hiss on my phone lines was unbelievable. I love my cable access.

DSL Limitations (4, Insightful)

bravehamster (44836) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899735)

I think one of the main reasons DSL isn't catching on so quick in the US is the distance limitations. With the urban sprawl and wide open spaces and all, there's an awful lot of people not within the required distance. Other countries tend to be more densely populated than the US, and thus more people are able to get DSL. Also, I don't know how it is in other countries, but most people would rather deal with the cable company than the phone company.

I chose DSL because... (5, Informative)

PotatoHead (12771) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899737)

Cable was too restrictive. Sure, the speed is better in my neck of the woods, but choice matters more to me.

With DSL, in Portland, OR at least, I get to choose from a number of different speeds and ISP's.

For me this is the difference between a *real* connection to the Internet, and a download only one.

(Shameless plug --If you do not live here, skip!)
www.spiretech.com

- Shell account on server via SSH or (gasp!) telnet.
- Some level of free web site hosting.
- Good connectivity
- Only real user restriction is that you do not abuse the connection. So running a commercial site is out, but all the hobby level stuff is ok.
- IP address by username in dns. Not static, but very useful. eg: user_name@dsl.spiretech.com

These things matter a lot to me. I use my home connection for many different activities. Many are related to my job, but some are just for learning.

So, you basically trade choice and connectivity for speed. For me that's fine. Maybe others see the same?

I've Used Both (5, Interesting)

TTMuskrat (629320) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899744)

I've used both cable modems and DSL and I have to say that I prefer DSL. I had constant mini-outages with the cable modem - ICQ up, ICQ down, ICQ back up, ICQ back down - coupled with several major network issues that kept me disconnected for long periods of time (upwards of 10-13 hours). Of course, this may be only a fault of Time Warner's service. I've yet to have any connectivity problems with my DSL.

Also, I've not noticed that "...cable modems, which in general costs about $10 less a month in the United States than DSL service does." Both my cable and my dsl cost $49.99 a month - though I did get a special on my DSL ($25 for the first 6 mo).

Interesting stats.. (3, Informative)

dj28 (212815) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899761)

I believe that more people in the US use cable rather than DSL due to the distance limitations of DSL. Since the population of America is so widely dispersed over a vast land, I think that cable becomes more practical. However, in places like Western Europe and Asia, DSL becomes more practical due to a very dense population. Nevertheless, I think DSL will hit it off big in the major cities and metropolitan areas of America. Cable will make it in more rural areas.

Cable's winning in the US (3, Interesting)

The_Shadows (255371) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899762)

high-speed Web surfing done via cable modems, which in general costs about $10 less a month in the United States than DSL service does.

So... any idea why cable's more popular in the US?

Seriously though, DSL is expensive. When my sister ot her apartment, there was no way to get cable access and DSL was, IIRC, $70-80 a month. Much too much for a grad student to pay, unless you'd absolutely die without it.

The DSL companies may be very popular, as is cable, but if they don't drop their prices to more afordable levels, they'll lose out on customers. More importantly, we won't beadvancing the world of tech as quickly. In a few years, if it's not already, it's going to be damn near impossible to do much with a dial-up connection. Web sites are getting larger and more complicated, and more people will need wider pipes.

Anyway, back to work.

article assumes infrastructures are the same (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899767)

One important fact overlooked in the article is the infrastructure in each country and worldwide. Eg. the percentage of households having cable service allowing full-duplex cable modems is way lower than in the states.

Given that it does not really surprises me that DSL is more used through the world. Every country has mostly a wide spread phone infrastructure.

If most europeans would have the same choice and setup as americans, I am pretty sure they would choose the same way :-)

A more interesting topic is IMHO how consitently DSL is being billed. I know from friends in Germany that they pay by usage! Minutes and bandwidth are charged in addition to a base fee.

DSL Help? (1)

raal (14531) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899780)

I am moving to a new apartment in N-VA and have discovered no cable modem or DSL. I liked my DSL when I was in Denver and would like to get DSL again in VA. I checked on speakeasy.net and they said I was 18250 feet from the central office :(

Anyone know of some other options besides going back to Dialup???? Thanks

Building on the existing infrastructure (4, Insightful)

crystall (123636) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899781)

I may be totally wrong about this, but can't cable modems use existing cable lines, where DSL needs either fiber or at least better than two-wire phone line? So it makes sense that since the USA has a fairly large existing cable infrastructure that the growth might be faster in that area.

In the case of my area (Salem, Oregon, an hour south of Portland), cable was much more readily available to a larger subscriber area than DSL was, at least at the time we first subscribed. Plus DSL was more expensive at that time as well.

Price of your (A)DSL connection? (2, Insightful)

charon.de (56210) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899784)

Hi,

would be interested in what you pay for your connection?

I'm paying about 40 EUR/month, (24/7 ADSL 768/128 Kbit) with unlimited traffic via German Telekom (T-DSL). Which is running very reliable.

IMHO this isn't really cheap, but much cheaper then the metered ISDN access before.;)

Cable isn't an option for most people here.

Thx for reading

speed + popularity... (4, Interesting)

curtis (18867) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899790)

When I first got a cable modem, I was blown away by the speed, often in excess of 350k/sec but after a couple of years and the popularity of the internet and broadband the speed has dropped significantly as my neighbors have all jumped on the shared bandwidth. I think my average speed has dropped down to 120k/sec which isn't bad but there are times (often after work at night) when the speeds are much slower than that and there are signs that it may drop even lower than that...

The reason why DSL beats Cable outside of the U.S (5, Insightful)

frooyo (583600) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899795)

is because the U.S is NOT densly populated. For example, Europe is extremely dense in population thus make DSL an easy choice with many people close to the relay stations (within 3 miles). Where as in the U.S. you have mountains, deserts, artic tundra where lower population live so they must use cable.

Also, much of Europe and Asia use satelite for television so people don't have the option to use the exist co-ax that is running into their homes as almost all have in the U.S (for Internet access).

This all goes back to why Europe and Asia are ahead of the U.S in mobile phones. To cover the population of lets say Japan, with relay towers is relatively simple because of the dense population. Thus making new technology easily upgradable (for relay towers) because they don't need as many and they are not spread over long distances.

Re:The reason why DSL beats Cable outside of the U (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899896)

You are exactly RIGHT !!!

I'm an European and it is exactly that way. I didn't have a choice but DSL. Why is this so hard to understand

Why cable only wins in America... (3, Interesting)

Mhrmnhrm (263196) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899801)

is a no brainer. The telco's in the US are primarily concerned with keeping their monopoly at all costs. This isn't too surprising, considering that all of them were in the not-too-distant past just one company that was forced to break up. Unfortunately, by breaking them into regional monopolies, nothing was accomplished (Which is also why I, and several other insightful posters, were against breaking MS into an OS company, and an applications company.), because while they no longer had an iron grip on the whole nation, the smaller companies has iron grips on blocks of states, with no danger of competition from neighboring baby bells. True, the long distance market really took off, but the local/regional pie is still nothing but SBC, NYNEX, Bell South, and the rest. These smaller companies are the ones responsible for DSL's terrible acceptance in the US. A quick check while writing this post on dslreports.com shows that I can get 608/128 for $42 a month. I've hit speeds of 2000/128 with my cable modem, for $40 a month. Cable is faster, cheaper, AND IT WORKS. Yet with DSL, the happy people are happy, and the rest have nothing but horror stories of telcos missing appointments, not bringing the right equipment, damaging existing wiriring, and generally making it a royal pain. Sure, there's "competition" in the DSL market (again, the baby bells versus Covad, et al), but with prices being less attractive, and the installation/support headaches, it's not worth it unless you have a cable provider that spies on you (comcast) or blocks practically all useful services (cox).

cable vs dsl (1)

dmnic (452122) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899803)

hmmm, well currently I have both(attbi cable and speakeasy sdsl).
honestly, the only reason why I have the cable is so my fiancee can do whatever she wants to do on the net without taking bandwith from my servers(on the dsl).

those of you saying how dsl sucks, GET OFF PPPOE!!
no extra hardware, no filters, no software....nada, nil, nothin.

Winning? (4, Interesting)

sielwolf (246764) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899806)

Ok... winning? Have we all of a sudden picked sides? I'm sorry, my friend, but I'm on the side of cheap, fast, unhindered broadband (i.e. the best product). There are no sides therefore there is no winning other than in the very individualistic sense.

Right now the cable BB is much better than DSL: the service is more consistent, it is faster, and price is comparable. Now what happens if everybody in my complex jumps on Roadrunner? Well then switiching over to DSL might be an opprotune move.

Actually the only people who I can say are winning are e-businesses. Wasn't one of the roots of the dot-bomb the lack of sufficient average internet speed? The faster, more persistent the connection is, the more likely consumers will browse which is important for that Impulse Buying thing.

"Ohhh! They released Hoop Dreams on DVD! Gotta pick that up!"*

*Note: the commie bastards still haven't released Hoop Dreams on DVD.

Not unexpected (1)

FrostedWheat (172733) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899810)

I would guess that the popularity of DSL across the world is simply a side-effect of the popularity of Satellite TV.

Cable never really took of in the same way as the USA, so the only real option is DSL.

In the part of the UK I live in, cable is almost dead. So you'd think there would be a market for DSL. Well, not according to BT.

Monoply sucks!

Uptake slow because telco at capacity on DSL (5, Interesting)

JeffL (5070) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899811)

In my local area, the telco, Qwest, appears to be at capacity for providing DSL. Of the many people I have encouraged to get DSL, only those folks living in outlying cities have been able to successfully get it installed. People living here in Boulder, CO have repeatedly been told their line does not qualify, when people living in the same building already have DSL.

It always amazes me to read articles about the US lagging in DSL uptake, or the telcos not signing up as many people as they hoped, when in fact they are turning people away.

Maybe there is an explanation other than capacity, such as Qwest pulling a BT [theregister.co.uk] and refusing to signup people who don't request MSN as their ISP.

Cable is nice, but you need competition (2)

HuskyDog (143220) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899814)

I am in the UK and I have just switched from Cable to ADSL.

From a technical point of view cable is a much better solution than DSL. If you want to send broad band signals then you have to be better with a nice controlled impedance transmission line like coax cable rather than some birds nest of twisted pair. Never mind the lower potential for interference.

However, in most of the UK people don't have any choice about cable supplier. I had to use NTL and they were totally useless. I spent 1 month off line when my cable modem failed (I rented it from them) and the only way to get technical support was to phone after midnight and listen to musak for 45 mins.

With ADSL I have dozens of suppliers to choose from and I can go to someone who provides the services I want (e.g. static IP). They all depend on British Telecom to service the wires, but at least the people I am dealing with have an interest in retaining my custom.

port blocking content-heavy cable companies (2)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899829)

cable around my neck of the woods (new york city, time warner cable) thinks blocking ports is a good idea (anti-kazaa)

the village voices discusses [villagevoice.com]

[cynic] you decide if verizon (my dsl provider) does not block ports because blocking ports is bad, period, or simply because it is not a content-oriented company like aohell time warner. [/cynic]

either way, i think the us will quickly catch up with the rest of the world in dsl usage over cable usage.

since the coupling of media content companies and cable companies is a lot tighter than the coupling of media companies and telephone companies, then port blocking will always look more attractive to cable companies. so cable companies will port block more. and then irate current customers and potential customers will sense this, and more and more will choose dsl.

Not too surprising... (1)

Blahbbs (587167) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899837)

in the United States cable is winning, but globally, DSL holds the cake.

I don't suppose that's too surprising. The US has more older phone infrastructure to support than, say, a third-world country that just got phone service 5-10 years ago. Cable television is still just a pipe dream for many of them. Since these countries have a fairly new infrastructure, it probably isn't much of a stretch to roll out DSL compared with cable modems, which would require a completely new cable infrastructure to be built.

Some of that older US infrastructure can't handle DSL just yet, but the more-recently-rolled-out cable television infrastructure can handle broadband...

Possibly due to proliferation? (0)

thgreatoz (623808) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899842)

Is DSL expanding faster than cable? That may be a cause for the increase in signups. I know that if cable was available where I lived, I'd dump my DSL in a heartbeat.

FWIW, I had to use a satellite connection for the first 3 months I lived out in the boonies, and I consider myself lucky that it was that short a wait!

People want broadband, and when options are limited (as they were in my case), they'll take what they can get. ANYTHING but the dreaded 56k!!!

More but not cheaper! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4899864)

In Boston cable cost me $30 a month about $100 for rental of the modem.

In Ireland ADSL is costing me 199 setup, 270 modem (4 port), 204 a month for uncapped access (or I can take 100 a month for 3GB cap).

So the Irish Telco (eircom) is really screwing the consumers at the moment. The sad thing is, it's being touted as great+cheap! :(

reasons (5, Informative)

Martin S. (98249) | more than 11 years ago | (#4899888)


Two main reasons

1) Network topology. Cable is a ring, so all the consumers are sharing the bandwidth, the local connection forms the bottle neck. xDSL is star, each customer has exclusive use until the backbone. It suffers less contention. This benefits the consumer.

2) Cost. Cable expensive to install, you need to install a new cable ring and new run to each subscriber. XDSL operate of the existing twisted copper pair of the local loop. This benefits the ISP.

AIH, We are rolling out a broadband Interactive DTV using IP over ADSL because of these advantage.
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