Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

FCC Approves 802.11b Phased Array

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the wear-your-lead-apron dept.

Hardware 157

n6zfx writes "802.11b Networking News is reporting that vivato received FCC approval for the 802.11b AP that has a range of 4 miles... This was discussed recently here on slashdot -- There were comments that it might not be totally legal. Hopefully, this paves the way for more WISPs, bigger hotspots, and replacement of outdated wireless technology that seemed to be the only competitor to DSL and tv-cable for the last mile."

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

first post? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4905931)

Sorry

Re:first post? (-1)

Carp Flounderson (542291) | more than 11 years ago | (#4905990)

Don't appologize, its ok. Penile erectile disfunction happens to a lot of men.

Information wants to be wide.

High effect (2, Interesting)

martingunnarsson (590268) | more than 11 years ago | (#4905932)

With a long range like that I guess your brain will be pretty fried if you sit close to the AP, no?

Re:High effect (or another way to) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4905944)

Or another way to cook popcorn without having a microwave :)

Re:High effect (or another way to) (1)

mehfu (451236) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906373)

Does my stove have WiFi-support?!? Woohoo!

Re:High effect (1, Offtopic)

tigress (48157) | more than 11 years ago | (#4905947)

I dunno. Is its effect higher than the two watts normally found in a standard cellphone?

Re:High effect (3, Informative)

interiot (50685) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906034)

Two watts? Are you on crack? Try 600 - 125 milliwatts [mcw.edu] .

Re:High effect (3, Interesting)

tigress (48157) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906047)

I stand corrected. I based my comment on third party information, from someone who was supposedly wireless certified. Still 600mW is a lot more than what an AP is allowed to output (100mW) around here, and you don't usually press an AP against your ear, now do you? =)

Re:High effect (5, Informative)

tigress (48157) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906073)

Actually, on second thought...

Peak power output corresponds to 2 Watts or 2000 milliwatts (mW) which averages to 250 mW of continuous power. An analogue phone (AMPS system) has peak power limited to 600mW.

Source [arpansa.gov.au]

Re:High effect (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906094)

I always thought old analog AMPS used several watts, and in the case of the briefcase sized pack phones, and phones permanently mounted in cars upto 15-20 watts, I also remember hearing that if you were to touch the antenna mounted on the car while a call was in progress, that you might recieve minor burns. whereas the newer digital phones were in the range of a few hundred ma.

AMPS (4, Interesting)

wowbagger (69688) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906378)

An AMPS phone may be limited to 600 mW in the systems in Australia, but the actual limit on a Power Class 1 Phone is 5 watts. That is one of the reasons that replacing the AMPS system with (CDMA|TDMA) systems in the US has been very slow - a Class 1 phone can contact a base station many tens of miles away, which is IMPORTANT in much of the US - when you are in western Kansas, Nebraska, Wyoming, Montana, Utah ... you get the point.

That was part of why the old phones where so large - a 5 watt 100% duty cycle power amp isn't tiny. (the other reason was that since AMPS requires the phone to transmit and receive at the same time, the phone had to have an RF duplexer in it - not a small item, even at 800MHz. TDMA phones don't transmit and receive at the same time, hence they don't need the duplexer).

That's one of the reasons I tell people to look for the old phones at garage sales - get the phone and you have a dandy 911 phone - you WILL get a connection!

Re:High effect (4, Informative)

AndrewMcG (193365) | more than 11 years ago | (#4905949)

Actually, that's why it needed certification. It won't, it has very little different output to your laptop card. It works by actively steering antenna beams at associated users. Very cool for ISPs and big campuses.

certifications... (2)

morcheeba (260908) | more than 11 years ago | (#4907445)

Actually, the FCC doesn't limit raw power, it limits power per solid angle steradian [techtarget.com] (actually, it's usually max power/square area at a certain distance -- effectively the same, but no confusion over near-field effects of the antenna). Just like using a magnifying glass to concentrate sunlight, it can be just as dangerous to concentrate RF power - and the FCC knows this.

Still, the increased bandwidth due to multiple beams will be very helpful in overcrowded environments.

Super Horse Cock (-1)

xdfgf (460453) | more than 11 years ago | (#4905942)

TO THE RESCUE!

Q. How are you different from the other agencies?

A. The reason this service was started was because I simply was dissatisfied by efforts of the other foreign dating services. If you look at the typical dating service, their girls are from all over the Philippines. The Philippines covers a very large area and consists of over 7000 islands. It is unrealistic to think that you will have an opportunity to meet multiple girls due to the fact that it can take as many as two solid days of travel once you get off the plane in Manila to meet a girl in a distant province. And with up to two days of travel on your journey back, you have likely spent as much as four days, and possibly half of your vacation, on a bus or a boat. I had purchased 50 addresses from an agency and upon doing research on the Philippines, I realized that 90% of those addresses were potentially worthless due to inaccessibility. This would especially be the case if one girl was from Luzon and another from Mindanao (the two largest major islands). I didn't have more than 8 days for my vacation and I wanted to meet more than one girl. And since there are many things you must do, like meet her family which takes even more time to accomplish, I knew that I would drastically have to narrow my choices. This left me with 5 girls. I was fortunate that four of the five replied to me. I eventually was able to meet with two of those girls, but I realize now that my money was wasted by those unusable addresses and because my choices were very limited. Because of this, I realized that the foreign introduction industry was severely lacking in its convenience factors. I have set out to create my own custom agency that recruits all of its ladies from the easily accessible and very modern areas such as Manila, Quezon, Baguio City, and Laoag City from the Luzon island. I also realized the much greater demand for these ladies after talking to many of them over a long period of time, and comparing them with ladies from the distant provinces.

Q. Why should you chose the larger cities over the provinces?

A. My personal opinion is the compatibility and convenience factor. If you found this site, it probably means that you are a modern, forward-thinking gentleman. It is in your best interests therefore to choose a lady who, while feminine and conservative, is able to adjust to your habits and culture with relative ease. Typically in the cities, the girls tend to emulate their American and Canadian counterparts with respect to their interests and sophistication. Most, if not all, have cell phones, use e-mail, and are fluent in English. If you have ever written a letter abroad you can expect to have to wait up to two months for a reply. This makes e-mail the only realistic alternative. These ladies are very fashion conscious and try to keep up on current events and popular culture. Most are huge fans of American films and music and love anything that is different from their traditional native culture. They are also fascinated with foreign men in general. If you ever walk the streets of Manila, you will understand what I mean. For example, if you are sitting outside at a cafe, people will slow their pace and stare at you while they walk by. Often they will approach you and ask if you are enjoying your stay and if you like their country and its people. In contrast to the cities, most foreigners tend to experience culture shock when they visit ladies in the distant provinces. While friendly, the people tend to struggle with English and communication is always a challenge. The attitudes about everyday living are also much different than with what we are accustomed. Amenities are scarce. It is almost impossible to find a public restroom in these areas and you must typically resort to having to relieve yourself in the bushes. But if "roughing it" is for you, then maybe the provinces would suit your tastes. Also travel is difficult where you must take a motorcycle or a jeepney for very long distances to complete your trip. There is nothing more frustrating than getting temporarily lost in the provinces. It has happened to me twice, and it was enough for me to pledge my loyalty to the big cities and I am content with what I have found there.

Q. How do you recommend that I go about writing to these ladies?

A. Men who utilize this website tend to focus on girls who have e-mail listed. I must emphasize that just because they do not list an e-mail address does not mean that they cannot or will not use e-mail. Think of it this way: Would you use e-mail and/or pay the fees of an internet cafe if you didn't know anyone else who uses it? Of course you wouldn't. And it is the same for these ladies. They just need a reason to start, and then they will be checking it regularly when they know, for sure, that there will be mail waiting for them, thus not wasting their money.

Therefore I recommend a mixture of girls...write to a few with e-mail and a few that do not have e-mail. Your results will be alot better than if you only wrote to those with e-mail, as they get the most replies. Yes, it will initially take a couple of weeks longer to start your correspondence, but once you have initiated contact, the rate of your communication will increase rapidly as her interest builds. Many girls have even asked why nobody has written yet to our staff in the Philippines. When they are told that it is because they don't have e-mail, they sigh and say how they would use it, but they can't afford to keep paying for something if they are not getting anything out of it. It's up to you to give them a reason. Many filipias actually have e-mail, but they don't want to give it out until they receive an actual letter. They use the written letter as a test of the sincerity of a man. Even though it is clearly stated here about the benefits of taking the time to write, most men will STILL opt for girls who already have an e-mail address available. For those who are reading this, use this "inside" information to your advantage. Also, please make sure to enclose a photo of yourself. It is only fair that if you know what she looks like, she should be able to see your face as well. Finally, make the letter descriptive , honest, and be sure to tell her about your family. Most importantly, do not boast of your accomplishments...it will only turn her off. In other words, be yourself and be humble. They don't want an arrogant and macho attitude....they have seen plenty living from their own areas.

Q. What about calling them on the telephone?

A. I don't recommend contacting them by phone until you have established contact through either a letter or e-mail. Just like you probably don't like it when someone calls to try to sell you something over the phone, these girls are not going to be comfortable talking to a complete stranger (and in a personal manner) that they know nothing about.

Q. How many girls should I write?

A. The minimum number that I recommend is 10. That is why our rates are set up as they are....so that you will be persuaded to choose a healthy number of ladies with which to correspond. A man who is truly sincere about meeting a filipina would be best suited for a membership of some sort. We currently have three different membership options which gives all of the addresses in our database (hundreds) plus all additional updates for a period of time, depending on which option you choose. And the number of available ladies greatly outnumbers the number of members that we have. I am positive that you will be very busy for a long time....and will not be disappointed with your results.

Those men who are disappointed typically only write to 1-3 ladies. Remember that this, like anything else dealing with relationships, is a numbers game. Chances are that there is a lady in our pages that complements you perfectly. You just have to find her. This brings me back to a guy that I used to know back in college. He was just an average looking guy. But he was very aggressive when it came to women. Most of the time, he was rejected outright. But due to his persistence, he was never without a desirable girlfriend. And my other friends could only scratch their heads in disbelief of his success. So hopefully you see that it is much to your advantage to put forth the effort to write to multiple ladies.

Q. What about age differences?

A. Realistically, most filipinas will accept a man who is as many as 20 years her senior. There are a few that want someone of a certain age range, and this is specified in her profile. Much of this depends on you as well, as the age range is not set in stone, so to speak. What this means is that if you are very successful and are in good shape (not overweight), you may find a lady who is as many as 30 years your junior to accept you.

Q. How difficult is travel to the Philippines?

A. Basically the major airlines offer the same types of travel options to the Philippines as they do to any other foreign country. If you live within the continental United States, you can expect to pay between $650-$900 for a round-trip ticket during the "off-peak" season. Typically those who will pay less live on the West Coast since there is one less connecting flight. I recommend that you shop around for the best price and talk to independent travel agents instead of dealing with the huge on-line travel agencies which typically charge as much as 25% more for a ticket. Once you get there, either your lady will meet you at the airport if she is from the Manila area, or you will take a modern bus to one of the other major cities. I was surprised to find that the Philippines uses the same style of air-conditioned bus that is so common in North America.

Q. What about language differences?

A. The official written language in the Philippines is English. Almost everyone in the cities speaks English very well. As you get away from the cities, people tend to be more isolated and do not do as well with English. Some people in the cities speak English so well, that you forget that you are talking to someone who is foreign to you. And you will find that the writing skills of the average filipino is often much better than that of the average native English speaker.

Q. What is your guarantee on the addresses?

A. We do everything that we can to see to it that the addresses are current in our pages. It is inevitable that some girls will move or their e-mail addresses will expire if they do not log in for awhile due to a vacation or what-not. Therefore, if you scan a copy of a return letter or send us an e-mail failure daemon notice, we will give you your choice of TWO addresses for your inconvenience either from our current pages, or from a future update to the site. We are not able to issue refunds or credit due to the nature of the information provided however.

Q. Will you respond if I write you an e-mail?

A. Of course. Typically someone will check our main e-mail account at least 3 times per day and respond in a timely manner. We honestly don't get that many letters or inquiries, so you will be taken care of quickly. This is a medium sized site in a small industry. Sites like these do not get anywhere even close to the number of hits that the average dating site gets, either national or local. A safe bet would be to assume that your e-mail will be answered by us within 24 hours.

Q. How many men write to these girls?

A. Believe it or not, it is not anywhere near as many as you might think. As was mentioned above, most girls without e-mail get ZERO replies! The prettiest girls without e-mail will get one or two, but that's it. Most guys tend to only pick 1-2 girls to write, and they almost always have e-mail. Our policy is that when a girl has her address requested by about 8 different men, we will remove her from our pages unless she requests otherwise.

Q. How will I receive the addresses I purchase?

A. If you order through our secure system, it should immediately be delivered to the e-mail address that you provide. In addition, we display their contact information on a "thank-you" screen after you complete your order. It would be therefore in your best interests to "cut-and-paste" the addresses from that screen onto the 'notepad' feature of your PC.

Sometimes there will be a database error where the addresses do not get delivered. If this happens, simply e-mail us with the names of the girls you requested, and we will forward them to you as soon as possible.

Q. Why should I give this type of introduction service a try?

A. While this type of service tends to have the "Mail order Brides" stigma attached to it due to historical reasons, it is no longer the case. These ladies join this agency of their own free will and should be respected as such. If you think about it, this service is really no different than any other domestic singles, dating, and matchmaking service. "Mail Order Brides" is a term that means slavery and servitude. While true in the past and in illegal, underground sex trade operations today, it is no longer a normal part of the foreign introduction industry and mainstream websites such as this. The most significant difference that you will find with this type of service is in the quality of girls that you see. Most of these ladies would have dozens of men chasing them if they were single and living amongst us domestically. I have read statistics that show that for every single Asian girl in non-Asian countries, there are about 50 men competing for her affection. This is true from my own experiences, as I dated filipinas from areas like Chicago who would get "hit on" at least 5 times on any given day and were well aware how desirable they are to the average man.

But in Filipino dating sites such as this, there just is not this level of competition. Why? Because, for one, it is not a free singles service. Most men will avoid paying for a dating service. They convince themselves that they can find an unattached Asian woman on the internet. For a short time, I was one of those guys. But I quickly realized how pointless it was to go about the dating scene in that manner. You should use this little bit of information to your advantage over all of the others.

And the best thing of all, is that they do not have the same outlook on life or attitude as the average American girl! This is, by far, the most significant aspect. Most, if not all filipinas are Christian or strongly believe in God. Many of these same women specifically request a Christian man as one of their desired traits in a mate. While many women that you are used to would never cater to you like in old-fashioned times, a filipina will insist that she make you more comfortable. If that means getting you a glass of iced tea (without you asking) after a long day of work, so be it. She will do everything to shows that she appreciates having you as her man. There are not too many girls like this anymore (especially domestically), but rest assured that this character trait is ingrained in the mind of the average filipina.

Q. Are these Filipino women simply using me to become an American, Canadian, or European citizen?

A. While it has happened before, it is EXTREMELY rare. It is far more likely that a woman from your own area will marry you for your money rather than who you are as a person, statistically speaking. All these girls really want is to meet a man who loves and truly appreciates the love that they show to him. This "celebration of woman" is mainly a Western phenomenon. The average filipina comes from a male dominated area or household where it is common for the man to be lazy and get all the benefits, while the woman does all of the work with no appreciation.

In our modern times, most of these ladies life a fair life, devoid of poverty or truly harsh conditions. They simply want to try something new....in the exact same way that you are trying something new by writing to them. It really is as simple as that.

Q. What about getting her a visa?

A. This varies from country to country. In the United States, the law is very strict about immigration. Typically, it will take 3-6 months to get a "fiancee" visa, and a year to get a visa if you are already married. But if you have a minimum of a high school education, you can easily complete the required documents. For more information, please see our page at: http://www.manilabeauty.com/visa.phtml.

Q. How does e-mail forwarding work and how much does it cost?

A. Definition of e-mail forwarding: The interested man writes an e-mail sent to us in the form of an introduction letter to the girl he wants to contact. A member of the staff prints out the letter locally and sends it to the girl.

This is our e-mail forwarding plan:

For full members, we will be charging $2.50 per letter with a minimum of 10 letters sent at once. For 5-9 letters at once: $3 each. And then $4 each for 1-4 letters. Each letter includes a Philippine P15 international stamp for the lady to reply. But remember that since they live in or near the cities and internet cafes, many will likely reply by e-mail. Actually, the ones in Manila were complaining to my agent there why nobody has written yet :) These are girls without e-mail listed obviously....many are realizing the importance of e-mail, but they have a hard time justifying the cost since they are not 100% sure that they will have mail to read.

Note that you will see e-mail forwarding services at our competitors sites for a minimum of $5 each, and Philippine stamps for $1 each only if you buy 10 or more. Considering that express mail from the U.S. to the Philippines is $20 and it still takes a few days, our e-mail forwarding system is a great deal.

For non-members we offer the following:

$3 per letter with a minimum of 10 letters sent at once.
$3.50 per letter for 5-9 letters
$4.50 for 1-4 letters

Non-members may upgrade to a full membership by paying the difference for the desired membership option from their initial purchase to us through Paypal at http://www.paypal.com

Is preferred that payments are made through Paypal using the address: support@manilabeauty.com

Send your letter to that e-mail address as well following payment and it will be forwarded to the appropriate mailer in the Philippines.

Q. Where is your physical storefront?

A. Basically you are there now. We do not have a static address to keep our costs low and thus we can give better rates to you. The beauty of the internet is that all you need is a PC to maintain a website. We have men and women who live and work in the major cities such as Manila, Laoag, Cebu, Baguio, and their suburbs who find these filipino girls and offer them the option of joining the agency. At any given time, one of these "field agents" may also answer your e-mails, as they help to administer various aspects of the website operation as part of their duties.

Q. Do you have a brochure you can send?

A. Again, to keep our overhead down, we do not offer a brochure. We cannot justify a brochure, since the main purpose of a website is to give you all the information you need.

These are the questions that we most often get if someone does not read this page beforehand, and they are therefore covered here. If you still have questions after reading this, please e-mail us at support@manilabeauty.com and someone will get to your question as soon as possible.

Good Luck!

The Staff of Manila Beauty

Good for Bandwidth Co-ops (5, Interesting)

Skrap (105397) | more than 11 years ago | (#4905946)

This will be especially relevant for Bandwidth co-ops.


The biggest obstacle to creating a co-op is having enough potential subscribers to convince the telcos that it will be worth their while to run the dry pairs the "last mile" from the DSL POPs to the houses. I am guessing that this technology will begin to allow metropolitan bandwidth co-ops to have an effective solution outside of the telco's control. Please, oh please, let broadband not suck forever.

Bad for Ricochet, Boingo, HotSpots (1)

rjamestaylor (117847) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906530)

I've been awaiting the resurrection of Ricochet in Orange County, CA, but with a four-mile radius I could (using company money, of course--I doubt this new AP will be cheap) set one up at home and at the corporate office and have the effect I try to achieve using (past tense) Ricochet and (present tense) T-Mobile HotSpots. That effect is to change my environment to either a nearby park, pub or (what's a another p-word? It's early) other place while I work. Within a couple miles of both home and office I have parks, lakes, pubs, restaurants. . .just not the beach (maybe I still will need Ricochet!).

Re:Good for Bandwidth Co-ops (3, Insightful)

NoMoreNicksLeft (516230) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906873)

You know, there were several reasons that 10base2 only allowed 30some hosts per segment, but a not insignificant one was that collisions don't increase linearly as you add hosts.

Despite what some believe, 802.11 is basically a single pipe, shared with everyone. This simply isn't the solution you're looking for, even if it is the only one available.

Reminds me too much of idiots who use USB for cd burners and the like. Then they wonder why the mouse cursor is unresponsive.

I'm not a troll... I do sympathize. I want to figure out how to get broadband to everyone too. But this isn't it.

Re:Good for Bandwidth Co-ops (offtopic) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4907354)

Reminds me too much of idiots who use USB for cd burners and the like. Then they wonder why the mouse cursor is unresponsive.
I have a USB plextor cd burner and it works great.
I can burn a cd
write to /dev/dsp
while reading the source .wav file from a NFS partition
and running X locally
. All this on a 133mhz Toshiba Protégé 300CT laptop with very low latency..
not to shabby..
-greg

Retarded. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4905950)

These people are so stupid. This will never work.

Re:Retarded. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906012)

I have been to the future, and yes it will.

Ho Hum... (5, Insightful)

User 956 (568564) | more than 11 years ago | (#4905954)

Vivato's bases reach groups of users on existing laptops and other computers, with an operating range up to 7 kilometers outdoors, the company claims. Software controlling the antennas detects Wi-Fi clients in the area and adjusts the signal across the array many times per second.

Which is great, except when they overbook in order to maximize revenue, much like cell phone companies. [verizoneatspoop.com] Then we have spotty, intermittent coverage serving only a percentage of paying customers, as the system struggles to keep up.

Yay technology!

Re:Ho Hum... (5, Informative)

Effugas (2378) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906176)

A few years back, a company came to my school to give a talk about SDMA -- Spatial Division Multiple Access. It was essentially based on the concept that, duh, a single cell phone is only one position, so the tighter a beam you could direct / detect from the phone, the more points could use the same frequency.

The cool thing about SDMA is that as your load increases, so too (to a limited degree) does your available bandwidth. As long as people are relevantly separated from eachother, their physical positioning relative to other hosts adds disambiguatable bandwidth. It ain't perfect -- node to node crosstalk is a real problem, since your wifi cards are omni -- but they're talking about such range that there's lots and lots of omni hexes to expand through.

Whoot to Vivato; hopefully they'll get a lower end antenna for fixed wireless clients!

Yours Truly,

Dan Kaminsky
DoxPara Research
http://www.doxpara.com

Re:Ho Hum... (3, Insightful)

Scutter (18425) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906504)

Disambiguatable? ;-)

Re:Ho Hum... (2)

Eric Smith (4379) | more than 11 years ago | (#4907347)

Whoot to Vivato; hopefully they'll get a lower end antenna for fixed wireless clients!
Why do you think Vivato needs to do this? That's what everyone else sells.

Re:Ho Hum... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906305)

goatse.cx troll...

links (-1, Troll)

muhula (621678) | more than 11 years ago | (#4905957)

which link is the freakin' link to the story?? I think it would be easier for me to wait and just read the comments instead :)

This is very good. (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4905958)

Yes! This is great news. This makes so many cool apps possible.

This turns a scattering of hotspots into a huge overlapping network.

IN SOVIET RUSSIA (-1, Troll)

trotski (592530) | more than 11 years ago | (#4905966)

FCC doesn't approve new communications channels.

DUH! The Soviet Communications Council handles that!

Another RPN example (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4905969)

work out (e^(4* (2+11) + 5/3)/(5-1/2*7) + 6) / 2

RPN:

2 Enter 11 + 4 * 5 Enter 3 / exp + 1 Enter 2 / 7 * chs 5 + / 6 + 2 /

23 keystrokes, vs

( exp ( 4 * ( 2 + 11 ) + 5 / 3 ) / (5-1/2*7) +6)/2=

32 keystrokes

Learn RPN today!

26 keystrokes

Low-tech alternative (5, Informative)

icantblvitsnotbutter (472010) | more than 11 years ago | (#4905974)

A company in Sweden conducted tests with a stratospheric balloon [theregister.co.uk] . They broke 300 km (187+ miles).

Not entirely salient, but a reminder that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Re:Low-tech alternative (2)

g4dget (579145) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906167)

The amazing thing about Vivato's stuff is not that it delivers broadband over a few miles distance, but that it does so within the regulatory confines of 802.11b and without manual aiming of antennas. If you just want to deliver broadband over long distances, there are lots of ways of doing that.

Re:Low-tech alternative (3, Interesting)

perfessor multigeek (592291) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906440)

I'm a helios [nasa.gov] man myself. Once they get those puppies finalized, you'll see small towns able to cover footprints larger then most states. Specifically, this will be much more practical in mountainous areas or simply those with lots of deep ravines.
In Montana they've had trouble because people tend to build in narrow valleys (more water, less wind, etc.) and thereby are choosing the areas with the *worst* possible radio wave accessability. The higher you go, the less that matters.
Rustin

Re:Low-tech alternative (4, Funny)

medscaper (238068) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906618)

there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Ok, Swedish or not, any company that can skin a cat with a balloon from 300 km away has my complete and total attention.

Re:Low-tech alternative (2)

Tenebrious1 (530949) | more than 11 years ago | (#4907014)

Ok, Swedish or not, any company that can skin a cat with a balloon from 300 km away has my complete and total attention.

Awesome! I could use one, to fry those damn cats that are howling all night in the alley.

The goat sex challenge. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4905983)

LEts slashdot goatse.cx!

Click here [slashdot.org] , make their sever pay!

Is it too powerful? (5, Insightful)

JakiChan (141719) | more than 11 years ago | (#4905993)

So, if the Starbucks a few blocks over installs this, is it going to stomp all over my home network? I mean a WiFi hotspot with a 4 mile radius is great, but hopefully wouldn't affect home users. That'd be like some new cellular tower killing my cordless phone...certainly not appreciated.

Re:Is it too powerful? (5, Informative)

Uller-RM (65231) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906127)

I live in Portland, OR, home of PersonalTelco - a fairly well known volunteer group for WiFi access. We have more nodes listed on nodedb for the Portland metropolitan area than nearly any STATE - and take that to all states if you count all of Oregon.

We had a big landmark case here a while ago that's exactly what you're fearing. PersonalTelco's been providing a totally free 11Mb connection to Pioneer Courthouse Square (a major hotspot in downtown Portland), and the Starbucks on one corner of the square tried to compete with them, broadcasting their pay-to-use TMobile service on the same channel.

Starbucks ended up having to back down - they now broadcast on channel 11, and PT on 6.

PT's a great group to get involved with - not only do they have regular meetings and stay active with local politics, they also organize a lot of things like group buys on antenna connectors and workshops on Pringles can waveguides.

Re:Is it too powerful? (4, Insightful)

g4dget (579145) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906130)

Over the same area, it should actually reduce interference compared to trying to cover the same area with regular access points.

Think of it this way. With a normal access point, it's like lighting a stage with diffuse lighting: there ends up being light everywhere. This access point is intended to be like a bunch of spotlights on a dark stage: only the areas where it is aimed are actually lit up; the rest of the stage remains in darkness.

Re:Is it too powerful? (3, Interesting)

rjamestaylor (117847) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906713)

  • Over the same area, it should actually reduce interference compared to trying to cover the same area with regular access points.

    Think of it this way. With a normal access point, it's like lighting a stage with diffuse lighting: there ends up being light everywhere. This access point is intended to be like a bunch of spotlights on a dark stage: only the areas where it is aimed are actually lit up; the rest of the stage remains in darkness.

That's a pretty accurate analogy. Having been program director at a (day time) 50kWatt AM radio station with directional restrictions I've seen powerful radio frequency radition effectively "spotlighted" to cover a quite-convoluted coverage map. Some areas being well lit and other, nearby areas being practically dark. It took four hefty antennae to accomplish the coverage pattern carved out by the FCC restrictions on our signal, but it worked very well.

As an aside, I also saw the sad effects of this directional power on a new apartment bulding constructed on a hill less than 400 yards from the antennae in the direct path of the focused radiation. First, realize that once the FCC grants approval the radio station has a right to the frequency, more so than those who experience interference from the signal. Especially more so than new developments begun well after the station has been approved and begun broadcasting. Anyway, the poor schmucks could hear our broadcasts on the toasters (!). CD players wouldn't play (but they worked in the stores a couple miles away), forget cordless phones--forget corded phones! These people were living in the spotlight, alright. Before the apartments were completed, the foreman came to visit me at the station--the fire alarm couldn't call out to the alarm company due to interference. I called my broadcast engineer (a local area college professor who loved radio and worked more for the fun than anything else) as I hummed the tune "The Fool on the Hill." Dave came out and helped the construction crew insulate and filter the building so people wouldn't die and he even helped the toaster problem. Dave helped other nearby businesses and schools located in the direct path of the signal to filter there systems--one school couldn't use their public address system because it just played our station when activated. . .Dave fixed it.

Boy, I miss those days! Sometimes. . .

Re:Is it too powerful? (2)

Hanzie (16075) | more than 11 years ago | (#4907527)

What exactly did dave do? I'm in nearly the same boat.

Thanks.

Re:Is it too powerful? (1)

rjamestaylor (117847) | more than 11 years ago | (#4907618)

Basically, he properly grounded all electrical devices and cabling systems. He also added filters (specific to our broadcast frequency at 1550 AM) to phone systems -- this helped even cordless phones work.

Re:Is it too powerful? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906149)

These things are what the FCC are for. But oh noooo. The market-solves-everything morons think all gub'ment is bad, don't they?

Re:Is it too powerful? (2)

ruiner13 (527499) | more than 11 years ago | (#4907258)

"I mean a WiFi hotspot with a 4 mile radius is great, but hopefully wouldn't affect home users. That'd be like some new cellular tower killing my cordless phone...certainly not appreciated."

Not only that, but from what I can remember, I think bluetooth uses the same frequency bads. Not only will it have the ability to bring your home WiFi range down, it can make sure your computer is so distracted by they all-powerful broadband signal you won't be able to sync your cell phone or BT enabled PDA to your computer anymore. I gueds we'll see how this turns out...

4 miles? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906013)

That's a lot of Pringles cans.

Phased Arrays Won't Impress Me... (4, Funny)

Quaoar (614366) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906015)

...until Pink Floyd uses them in concert.

Re:Phased Arrays Won't Impress Me... (-1, Troll)

longhairedgnome (610579) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906049)

Bus stop rat bag, ha ha charade you are.
You fucked up old hag, ha ha charade you are.
You radiate cold shafts of broken glass.
You're nearly a good laugh,

Re:Phased Arrays Won't Impress Me... (-1, Troll)

D+iz+a+n+k+Meister (609493) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906071)

How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?

Re:Phased Arrays Won't Impress Me... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906243)

Or until they zap your starship halfway across the galaxy..

wireless (3, Interesting)

katalyst (618126) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906025)

Interesting...... Gives rise to lots of new avenues for hacking too. Imagine to not have to be PHYSICALLY wired in. Instead... use your laptop to connect to your target server's airport and VOILA! Maybe companies will sheild their office complexes, so that a guy sitting outside the fence can't mess around with their data.
Exciting possibities....

Re:wireless (3, Informative)

tigress (48157) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906037)

This is already happening. Didn't you read any of the stories [slashdot.org] about [slashdot.org] wardriving? [slashdot.org]

The "standard" 300m outdoor-range of most APs are more than enough.

Destructo-Ray? (5, Funny)

zumbojo (615389) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906032)

I could have sworn that the last time I heard "phased array" and "4-mile radius" together in one sentence something in some movie blew up.

Re:Destructo-Ray? (3, Funny)

Asprin (545477) | more than 11 years ago | (#4907281)


Yeah, Charlie Sheen's career. [imdb.com]

Will 802.11b drive IPv6 and IPSEC use? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906067)

I need an alternative source of domain packets!

The quality of 802.11b security implies the need to lock down the bandwidth with something.

Could this turn into the killer app for IPv6/IPSEC?

Re:Will 802.11b drive IPv6 and IPSEC use? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906712)

I use ipsec over all of our wireless links. I build or firewall off all of my AP's. I leave the WEP encryption off though, dashing the hopes of war drivers can be fun :)

It's 5:30 AM... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906076)

What are you doing up this late (or early)? Just curious.

(Yes, I know it's offtopic.)

Re:It's 5:30 AM... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906093)

Sniff sniff. Smells like troll. Ah well. I'll bite.

Re:It's 5:30 AM... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906104)

The US isn't the only place in the world. Those timezone thingies go from +12 to -12. So somewhere in the world it's always noon. Amazing eh?

Re:It's 5:30 AM... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906122)

Yes, but the rest of the world isn't important.

Re:It's 5:30 AM... (0, Troll)

Toraz Chryx (467835) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906219)

Nonsense, without the rest of the world you'd just be drifting off into space!

Phaser (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906125)

Fire up the phaser arrays, Cap'n!

Sprint broadband (3, Insightful)

g4dget (579145) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906154)

and replacement of outdated wireless technology [Sprint broadband]

Well, Sprint Broadband works, it delivers >3Mbps, it's fairly easy to install, and it costs $50/mo. And I doubt it's a money losing venture, otherwise they'd have discontinued the service entirely rather than just not taking new signups.

If companies will compete with Sprint broadband using Vivato technology, that would be great. But with the Vivato APs being released in 2003, I think it's at least another year away until you are going to see viable commercial broadband services based on it springing up.

Re:Sprint broadband (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906493)

yea that would be great if Sprint Broadband was still trying to "aquire" new customers

Re:Sprint broadband (3, Informative)

praedor (218403) | more than 11 years ago | (#4907209)

Last I heard/read, Sprint broadband was no longer accepting new customers (This was almost a year ago I read this on their site). If you have it now it is only because you got in before the locked down the system and stopped accepting new users. Doesn't bode well for its future does it?

Guns before butter (5, Interesting)

release7 (545012) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906155)

I'm afraid killing people takes precendence over informing them. The Pentagon reports that wi-fi networks interfere with their radar and further rollout of the technology must be curtailed. Read this article. [nytimes.com]

Re:Guns before butter (2)

brianvan (42539) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906308)

Actually, from what I've heard, they use radar to help commercial airplanes navigate. Furthermore, there are few crucial military domestic uses of radar other than national airspace security - that is, we need it to see if someone's sending over bombers to New York or Miami.

I would argue that, in this case, giving priority to consumer telecommunications would result in killing people. Not the other way around.

Re:Guns before butter (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906846)

I hope a HARM missle does not home in on my Powerbook.

My child has grown a third leg . . . (4, Funny)

pariahdecss (534450) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906186)

I am all for the propagation of this technology. I live in an area with no broadband access whatsoever . . . .just don't put the radiating tower in my backyard . . .my kids are weird enough without growing extra appendages

Re:My child has grown a third leg . . . (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906207)

No problem...unless your child is a girl. In that case it's time to look up "shemale".

Re:My child has grown a third leg . . . (2)

squaretorus (459130) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906310)

My physics sucks - anyone got a decent overview of the relative densities coming from Mobile phone masts and these things?

Recently a mobile phone mast was stopped from being erected on my street due to 'concerns over radiation levels' despite the background radiation being some 100x as strong in peoples homes.

Re:My child has grown a third leg . . . (2)

dattaway (3088) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906344)

Don't need physics to understand. Look at the cell antenna's ratings if you were to buy one. Beam pattern and power are what you choose from. They measure them in kilowatts and directional gain.

Your microwave puts out a kilowatt. If its a good one.

Its cold this winter. Are you sure a few kilowatts in your back yard are that bad?

Re:My child has grown a third leg . . . (2)

squaretorus (459130) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906374)

Who doesn't need physics to understand thins? Me? I beg to differ. I did a couple of years of Physics at uni and I dont have a quick intuitive way to suss the potential effects of this kind of kit.

My microwave may 'put out' a kilowatt but whats the apparent energy at 10m, 100m? I have a sneaky recollection that physics has some equations for that kind of shit! I've just forgotten them. They tended to involve squares and cubes and roots!

Re:My child has grown a third leg . . . (2)

Eric Smith (4379) | more than 11 years ago | (#4907313)

Who doesn't need physics to understand thins? Me? I beg to differ.
The reason you don't need to know physics to understand it is that it can be explained by simple geometry. If you have a 1W radiator (antenna) that is omnidirectional, only a small amount of power will be radiated in any given direction. So when the AP is communicating with a specific node, most of the power is wasted.

If you use a directional antenna, allmost the transmit power is sent in one direction, so if that's where the receiver is, the same 1W gets more power to where it's useful.

A phased-array antenna can be directional to an arbitrarily chosen direction, so what the Vivato AP does is readjust the phased-array direction for each client.

My microwave may 'put out' a kilowatt
As others have pointed out, it doesn't do that, but assuming it did...
but whats the apparent energy at 10m, 100m? I have a sneaky recollection that physics has some equations for that kind of shit!
The inverse square law. This was pretty obvious to me years before I took physics. Microwaves aren't doing anything unusual, just think about a light bulb. If you put a sheet of paper 1 foot from a light bulb, it will collect 4 times as much light as if you put the paper 2 feet from the light bulb.

Re:My child has grown a third leg . . . (2, Interesting)

nsushkin (222407) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906701)

Your microwave doesn't put "out" a kilowatt. The kilowatt stays inside the microwave. Actually, the energy is being transferred only when there is some food containing water inside the microwave. And even then, you have to apply extra effort (rotate the food and the tranceiver) to transfer more energy to the food.

The radiation is shielded on 5 sides of the oven box by the metal case and the door also has conductive shielding. So, even if you place parts of your body next to the microwave, you won't be exposed to the radiation.

I read somewhere that they placed people inside big microwave ovens and applied moderate amounts of power. The test subjects experienced a warm fuzzy feeling...

Re:My child has grown a third leg . . . (2)

Alsee (515537) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906925)

Your microwave doesn't put "out" a kilowatt. The kilowatt stays inside the microwave.

Absolutely right. I just want to clean up a detail...

And even then, you have to apply extra effort (rotate the food and the tranceiver) to transfer more energy to the food.

No extra effort is needed. The reason they rotate the food is to even out the heating. Microwaves tend to create hot spots and cold spots in the food. Either way the energy transfer is about the same.

-

Non-ionizing radiation (2)

guacamolefoo (577448) | more than 11 years ago | (#4907435)

I am all for the propagation of this technology. I live in an area with no broadband access whatsoever . . . .just don't put the radiating tower in my backyard . . .my kids are weird enough without growing extra appendages

I understand that you are trying to be funny, but I see sooooooo much cell tower ignorance at zoning hearings.

First of all, people (including zoning officials) do not understand that radiation levels are not something that can keep out cell towers. That is an area which has been pre-empted by federal law.

Second, they do not understand that cell phone radiation is not ionizing radiation. It cannot break chemical bonds and cause genetic mutations. It could cook you if you stood close enough and it broadcast at a high enough power, but it cannot cause cancerous changes. These people hear "radiation" and think "Godzilla" not "reading lamp". It's just blatant science ignorance.

GF.

totally illegal (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906197)

This is totally fuckin' illegal. I hope all those bastards go to jail!

123 (-1, Offtopic)

RomikQ (575227) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906271)

123

Alot of problems solved, new ones created. (5, Interesting)

iq in binary (305246) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906273)

4 miles? That's all fine and dandy, but think of the implications aside from being able to connect in "pocketed" areas.

Too many "off-limits" zones in the suburbs of major cities for this to be any good. Considering the fact that upwards of %80 of the people that'd benefit from this live in such suburbs. PD's, FD's, Hospitals, etc. are all considered to be zones absolutely off limits to any such interference this would cause (suburbs are totally PACKED with these, There are 3 PD's and 2 FD's, as well as 2 Hospitals within a 4 mile radius of my house). That's FCC regulation that's been around since the '30s, and they're sure as hell not going to change them now.

Given the method they'd have to use to make sure they aren't broadcasting in that area, you end up with 1 or 2 degree swaths of no service areas eminating from the tower. May not sound big, but after a mile or so it gets to be the width of a city block.

I'm all for this, but a better solution would be to use smaller and cheaper arrays. Just find a way to lower the latency and it'd be even better.

Re:Alot of problems solved, new ones created. (3, Informative)

Graymalkin (13732) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906409)

What you describe was wat Metricom/Aerie/Whoever tried to do with Ricochet. Instead of a bunch of towers covering large cells they used their little repeaters to make micronetworks. Instead of having a huge swath of city not covered by a spot beam they just neglected to stick repeaters up in that area.

Re:Alot of problems solved, new ones created. (1)

franimal (157291) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906432)

Rather funny considering that the PD and FD is one of Ricochet's major consumers. (Think NYC after 911 when the service was activated for PD and FD use.)

Re:Alot of problems solved, new ones created. (2)

Graymalkin (13732) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906500)

The parent post was regarding consumer access, not public service access like PD and FD. The major reason hospitals don't want you running around with an Airport card in your laptop is because their monitoring systems use the same frequencies. Nurses not knowing a dude in the intensive care ward is having a heart attack because some jackass is sitting in the lobby playing Quake on his laptop would be a very bad thing.

Re:Alot of problems solved, new ones created. (2, Insightful)

franimal (157291) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906588)

Last I checked, playing Quake, even on a laptop, didn't make someone a jackass.

I think you may have missed my point. I was expressing amusement that public service's are finding use for a consumer system that is regulated such that it won't 'interfere' with, or be useable in, the function of public services. The correct conclusion to reach is that it would have been much better to allow the services to co-exist and benefit eachother (more so the public service sector).

Re:Alot of problems solved, new ones created. (2)

Waffle Iron (339739) | more than 11 years ago | (#4907249)

The major reason hospitals don't want you running around with an Airport card in your laptop is because their monitoring systems use the same frequencies.

If they've got mission critical wireless systems, WTF don't they run them on their own exclusive licensed frequencies?

Re:Alot of problems solved, new ones created. (3, Informative)

Alsee (515537) | more than 11 years ago | (#4907386)

PD's, FD's, Hospitals, etc. are all considered to be zones absolutely off limits to any such interference this would cause... ...better solution would be to use smaller and cheaper arrays.

The point of the phased array is that it causes far less interference. It can get coverage to far more area while staying within the exact same limits to hospitals, PD's and FD's. It also gives you far more control of the coverage. Even if you have a "1 or 2 degree swath" on the far side of a hospital you can cover it with a second tower 3 miles away in a different direction.

The current implementation uses a fairly localized phased array to create beams. If they were to coordinate widely separated antennas they could do much better than beams, they could give pinpoint coverage. Almost like placing an ultra-weak antenna on the target's shoulder. It also becomes possible to actively zero-out the interference to hospitals with a pinpoint inverse signal.

They aren't up to pinpoint coverage level I described, but it will come. The current phased arrays are still far better than regular antennas.

-

Security issues addressed? (4, Interesting)

InfiniteWisdom (530090) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906277)

802.11 has been shown [1] to be completely insecure... have these security issues been fixed? From my reading of the paper, all that really needed to be done to fix most of the issues was to switch from OFB mode to CBC or CFB [1] Nikita Boristov, Ian Goldberg, David Wagner. Intercepting Mobile Communications: The Insecurity of 802.11. SIGMOBILE 2001. http://www.berkeley.edu/isaac/mobicom.pdf

Ken Biba? (4, Interesting)

sczimme (603413) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906306)


Given the qualifications and history of Ken Biba listed in the article

Biba started in security and networking R&D 30 years ago with Mitre Corp. and was a member of the Advanced Research Projects Agency Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) Working Group

I wonder if he is the same Ken Biba that worked on/devised Mandatory Access Control (MAC) and the Biba Integrity Model.

There is a good description of MAC here [freebsd.org] , and an explanation of the Biba Integrity Model here [tml.hut.fi] .

TWO TOWERS (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906335)

OH FUCK, two towers is a failure on big screen..... what do i do now? what now?????? I feel so fucking devastated now...

Moment of truth - GURU opens his mouth (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906360)

Girls are like internet domain names. The ones I like are already taken.

Re:Moment of truth - GURU opens his mouth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906437)

You can always get one from a strange country.

Ewige Blumenkraft (3, Insightful)

Graymalkin (13732) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906393)

So how exactly do people with pie in the sky Wi-Fi plans intend to overcome 802.11b's inherent scalability problems? How many people can one AP REALLY serve?

From my experience I'd say that answer to that question is not very many. Having more than a couple people on a single AP is a recipe for pain and suffering. As the number of users on an AP increases so does the chances of packet collisions. As collisions increase the viability of the network decreases and you eventually reach a collapsing point where the network is unusable. A corollary to that rule then would be the larger your coverage area the higher a chance of collisions and thus a higher chance of the network collapsing.

You run into a similar problem with 802.3 which is solved by switching the network. With a wireless network you don't have the ability to add a switch in the middle of the network to keep the number of collisions down to a minimum. You're only got a bunch of nodes waiting their turn to talk. Switching channels isn't an option because APs can only serve particular channels.

With a coverage area of four miles then, the number of potential collisions on a channel is pretty high because your entire customer base could be in that four mile coverage area. Sweeping a broadbast between different nodes doesn't do much good on their end where all the static from other connections is an issue. On current networks you've got a small number of users because your coverage area is pretty small so problems aren't evident. You don't have problems on a wired network with only a 5 port hub either.

Re:Ewige Blumenkraft (4, Informative)

rjamestaylor (117847) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906788)

What part of "Wi-Fi Switch" did you not understand? From the site [vivato.net] :
  • Vivato's Wi-Fi switches deliver the power of network switching with Vivato genius radio antennas. Vivato's switches use phased-array radio antennas to create highly directed, narrow beams of Wi-Fi transmissions. The Wi-Fi beams are created on a packet-by-packet basis. Vivato calls this technology PacketSteering(TM). Unlike current wireless LAN broadcasting, Vivato's switched beam is focused in a controlled pattern and pointed precisely at the desired client device. These narrow beams of Wi-Fi enable simultaneous Wi-Fi transmissions to many devices in different directions, thus enabling parallel operations to many users - the essence of Wi-Fi switching. These narrow beams also reduce co-channel interference, since they are powered only when needed.
  • Vivato's Wi-Fi switches significantly increase the range of Wi-Fi. Rather than transmit the radio energy in all directions, Vivato's PacketSteering concentrates the same amount of energy into a narrow, long beam. This beam is effectively a high-gain antenna that is formed for the duration of a packet transmission. The result is extreme range - extending the reach of Wi-Fi from tens of meters to kilometers.

    Another key attribute of switching is preserving compatibility with standard client devices. Vivato's Wi-Fi switches deliver increased capacity, range and security to standard Wi-Fi clients based on the IEEE 802.11b, 11a or 11g standards. With increasing capacity and range, Wi-Fi switches are more scalable than Wi-Fi traditional micro-cellular implementations and are managed in much the same way as Ethernet switches for easy adoption and widespread deployment.

Re:Ewige Blumenkraft (2)

Graymalkin (13732) | more than 11 years ago | (#4907382)

I SPECIFICALLY said that the access point of the equation is not the problem. The problem exists on the client end without phased array antennas. If you have fifty people all in the same area with their cheapo dipole antennas chattering away on the network the whole thing becomes inusable. It doesn't matter if the head end has some cool steerable spot beam. Having a head end switch from Vivato is like plugging a bunch of nodes into a hub and then plugging that hub into a switch to talk to other hubs.

Re:Ewige Blumenkraft (1)

rjamestaylor (117847) | more than 11 years ago | (#4907573)

  • So how exactly do people with pie in the sky Wi-Fi plans intend to overcome 802.11b's inherent scalability problems? How many people can one AP REALLY serve?

    From my experience I'd say that answer to that question is not very many. Having more than a couple people on a single AP is a recipe for pain and suffering. As the number of users on an AP increases so does the chances of packet collisions. As collisions increase the viability of the network decreases and you eventually reach a collapsing point where the network is unusable. A corollary to that rule then would be the larger your coverage area the higher a chance of collisions and thus a higher chance of the network collapsing. . .With a wireless network you don't have the ability to add a switch in the middle of the network to keep the number of collisions down to a minimum. . .On current networks you've got a small number of users because your coverage area is pretty small so problems aren't evident. You don't have problems on a wired network with only a 5 port hub either.

Later. . .
  • I SPECIFICALLY said that the access point of the equation is not the problem.
First, you did not SPECIFICALLY say the problem was with the client...your post (the one I saw and responded to) addresses the AP and NUMBER of clients. Second, your statement: "With a wireless network you don't have the ability to add a switch in the middle of the network to keep the number of collisions down to a minimum" and your analogy to a "5 port hub" shows you didn't read or comprehend the advance claimed by Vivato--it is a Wi-Fi SWITCH!

But, I do admire your commitment -- if one is going to dig themselves into a hole, they might as well make it deep! :)

What about the client? Does it get a 4 miles too? (2, Interesting)

kneel (17810) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906399)

Makes sense that you can build a big-ass AP that will provide a large 802.11 blanket, but how is my laptop's little antenna going to talk back to it?

Gotta love the name... (4, Funny)

goodEvans (112958) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906427)

The Terminator: The .45 Long Slide, with laser sighting.
Pawn Shop Clerk: These are brand new; we just got these in. That's a good gun. Just touch the trigger, the beam comes on and you put the red dot where you want the bullet to go. You can't miss. Anything else?
The Terminator: 802.11b Phased Array rifle in the forty watt range.
Pawn Shop Clerk: Hey, just what you see, pal.

Not good. (1)

TheRealFixer (552803) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906513)

If your Wi-Fi network extends 4 miles, then the terrorists have already won.

What about something that will work through trees? (2)

tommck (69750) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906620)

I don't care about all these cool _wide_ _open_ _land_ solutions!

What about all the people who can't even see their neighbor's house? I want to set up a WISP in my neighborhood, but I have no direct line of site to anybody.

Phased Arrays (3, Funny)

grub (11606) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906661)


Whoa... Every time I hear that term it's on Star Trek and in regards to some huge weapon of mass destruction.

/me wraps his head in another layer of tinfoil.

Smarter, not harder (same effect, better aims) (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4906778)

Please guys, this techonology is NOT about splattering megawatts all over town!

It is about aiming a low power beam in the right direction using a smart antenna AND that same smart antenna is a better listener.

It's a high-tech equivalent of a parabolic antenna and it is adjusted to radiate the same power at a distance as a normal omnidiretional antenna would do. That's what the FCC require in order to approve an antenna.

It's a common mistake to think that range=power. Note that this is a two way operation.

You also have to be able to hear the other guy, right? That takes good listening skills = a directional antenna.

Phased Array? (5, Funny)

sdjunky (586961) | more than 11 years ago | (#4906945)

Now if Only I can calibrate the deflector dish to use the dilithium crystals to create a Tachyon pulse...

Where is Spock when you need him?
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?