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Microsoft Ordered to Carry Java

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the macro-management dept.

Microsoft 831

An anonymous reader was the 17,232th person to submit that "Microsoft has been ordered to include Sun's Java runtime in Windows. Coverage from AP (via Yahoo), Reuters (via news.com), and, let's say, the BBC."

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831 comments

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In Soviet Russia (-1, Offtopic)

RumpRoast (635348) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948071)

This is the first post!

Re:In Soviet Russia (0, Offtopic)

Mantorp (142371) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948101)

How could you be so sure? Always wondered but usually only ACs take credit...

Re:In Soviet Russia (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948267)

Yeah, that AC guy is impressive. How can one person get so many FPs daily?

fp? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948073)

maybe? Can I be the lucky winner today?

You FAIL IT! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948130)

Nofirstpostforyou!

Frist Post? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948077)

Oh, he's already taken the new post.... nevermind.

helloo (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948078)

8p??

Hilarious! (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948084)

"An anonymous reader was the 17,232th person to submit that 'Microsoft has been ordered to include Sun's Java runtime in Windows. Coverage from AP (via Yahoo), Reuters (via news.com), and, let's say, the BBC.'"

Come on, that just struck me as funny.

I can easily imagine those many thousands of geeks going "OMG I MUST SUBMIT THIS TO /. NOW!!" ;-)

Re:Hilarious! (0, Redundant)

LineNoiz (616971) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948147)

I thought it funny too... Shouldn't it be 17,232nd?

We want an update!! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948221)

Update: 12/24 00:50 GMT by T: That's 17,232nd rather than 17,232th -- silly English language.

Re:Hilarious! (1)

josephgrossberg (67732) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948151)

Or millions of geeks going "Dammit! Where's the Slashdot discussion, so I can whine publicly!"

Makes you wonder (5, Funny)

phorm (591458) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948200)

If this is a real number... or an exaggeration. The editors must really have a tough time of it sometimes, if they get this many articles. No wonder we get dupe posts etc.

I've had a question submission in pending since last week, they're probably really busy (or, hopefully, saving mine for a slow day).

17,232 on a Microsoft court ruling... I wonder how many post when the next distro of brand-X linux comes out. Also wonder how many people are visiting /. in a day lately, if this many are actually posting submissions.

Also wonder if they chose the AC just so that the other 17,231 people didn't have a name to cry foul upon when theirs was not the chosen submission.

Re:Makes you wonder (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948234)

sorry bro, there is no way that 17,000 people actually submitted this story. think of the number as hyperbole.

Unfair (0, Troll)

I Am The Owl (531076) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948085)

What's wrong with people just downloading it for themselves? This seems like unecessary government intrusion.

Re:Unfair (3, Insightful)

tempfile (528337) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948097)

Simple: By not including Java, Microsoft abuses its monopoly power to push ActiveX.

Re:Unfair (1)

SweetAndSourJesus (555410) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948144)

I think what he's getting at is that it shouldn't be Microsoft's responsibility to make sure Java is there. I don't understand how Sun managed to create a product and then demand that it be included with it's competitor's product.

That's just nuts, if you ask me (which you didn't).

Re:Unfair (5, Informative)

Master Bait (115103) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948270)

Sun and Microsoft made an signed agreement many years ago for Microsoft to have the rights to include a JDC compliant Java in their OS. Microsoft produced an incompatable JDC in their typical 'embrace and extend' methodology. Therefore Microsoft violated the terms of their agreement with Sun.

Of course, in some people's eyes, Microsoft can do anything it wants because it is above the law and are therefore the corporate heros of a 'free society'. Under those circumstances, the only one who is 'free' is Microsoft and them alone.

Re:Unfair (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948099)

Hah! Deal with it, Microsoft lackey! Sun 0wnz j00!! Java hax0rz in effect, f00!

Re:Unfair (3, Insightful)

Exmet Paff Daxx (535601) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948122)

I'll tell you what unnecessary government intrusion is. Unnecessary government intrusion is the DMCA legislating away our right to think critically and speak freely. Unnecessary government intrusion is the "War on Terror", a war on a verb, mind you, which can only be won by injecting drugs into every American which prevents fear regardless of stimulus. Unncessary government intrusion is the Office of Total Information Awareness, a Poindexter-led database of our SSN cross indexed to our freaking chest X-rays to our cell phone locations.

No, this is not "unncessary government intrusion". This is just a court trying to restore our basic unalienable right to a software language that isn't owned by a giant corporation like Microsoft.

Terror is a noun (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948192)

Uh, yeah . . .

whoa, daddy! (1)

SweetAndSourJesus (555410) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948203)

We get basic inalienable rights regarding software?!? When the hell did this happen?

Oh, and last time I checked, Sun is a giant corporation. They've got big buildings and leather executive chairs and everything. They've even got lawyers with big nasty teeth. Don't paint them like they're Sun's Software and TV Repair.

Re:Unfair (1)

Mantorp (142371) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948251)

"Unnecessary government intrusion is the "War on Terror", a war on a verb, mind you"

To terror or not to terror...hmm? Can't resist urge to nitpick......sorry.

Plenty fair (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948146)

Because:
a) 99% of people will never download it
b) Fair punishment for Microsoft purposesly distributing a broken version of Java based on 1.1 (From 1997!) for 5 years, because it wanted to cripple the competition for it's .NET initiative.

Listen, if my Television was manufactured by NBC, they should not have the power to not carry CBS, ABC, PBS, etc. They should be forced to carry all stations, within reason, that fit the standards.

Re:Plenty fair (1)

shamilton (619422) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948222)

Listen, if my Television was manufactured by NBC, they should not have the power to not carry CBS, ABC, PBS, etc. They should be forced to carry all stations, within reason, that fit the standards.

And why's that? I suppose Windows is also unfairly monopolising the OS market by only running MZs?

sh

Re:Unfair (2)

MartinG (52587) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948188)

If there must be any government intrusion at all (and unfortunately, it seems that for now at least - there will be) then is must be balanced. ie, if the general public are prevented from doing things that may harm corporations by government intrusions called trademarks, copyright, patents and others, then there must also be counter intrusions which prevent the aforementioned intrusions from their natural tendency to form powerful monopolistic monocultural monoliths like microsoft. (and in this case, they have failed to _prevent_ it, so this attempted cure is better than nothing IMO)

Re:Unfair (3, Insightful)

standards (461431) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948253)

If you're against illegally breaking contracts, then you're a commie loser-boy.

The only government intrusion in this case is the assurance that legal contracts aren't illegally broken, and if they are, providing a reasonable remedy.

Even a libertarian like me supports government serving justice in such a situation. This isn't a government intrusion situation - it's a justice situation.

Grow up.

Re:Unfair (2)

Teknogeek (542311) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948269)

Despite the classic 'take THAT, Micro$oft!' reaction that can be found in any discussion (some of it deserved, I'll grant), Owl has a pretty valid point.

Forcing Microsoft to carry another company's product for free seems like a pretty major violation of the free market. There should bed othing stopping them from bundling their own version, licensing Sun's, or trying to make ActiveX the new de facto standard.

People download Flash Player all the time, and that shows up on a LOT more websites than Java. What makes Sun so special?

Re:Unfair (1)

SocietyoftheFist (316444) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948273)

Many, many, many websites use Java for content. Microsoft fails to provide a current version of the JVM but does push using ActiveX. This is a great example of a monopoly in action, Microsoft even acknowledged the use Java deloper base. Developers and content providers have spoken but Microsoft refuses to give them what they want and tries to push their product. Seems to what what people want isn't what they are getting. You also give the common person to much credit, they use their computer as a consumer device. I myself have Sun's java plugin installed for when I'm running Netscape under Win2k but if I went and asked 100 people which JVM they are using for their browswer somehow I'm sure I'd be met by blank stares a great majority of the time.

M$ has won.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948088)

Rhis is really some good news.
Lets face it M$ has won :(

I love to see it the other way around but
you cannot deny the facts..

Your Rights Online (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948094)

Only Timothy would stick "Microsoft Ordered to Carry Java" in YRO. I don't see how it affects our rights as we can download Mozilla or Opera and install our own Sun Java runtimes.

I dont get this... (2, Insightful)

dnaumov (453672) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948100)

I really don't get this. Why is MSFT forced to include a piece of software written by their competitor into their Operating System ? I know that having a monopoly places restrictions on what you can and can't do, but I was not aware they can go THAT far.

Re:I dont get this... (1)

dnaumov (453672) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948124)

And to add...yes I think this was an UNFAIR decision to make MSFT do this. Would YOU like it to have someone else force your shop to GIVE AWAY competitors products ?

Re:I dont get this... (1)

bubbha (61990) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948184)

The punishment fits the crime.

Re:I dont get this... (5, Informative)

blamanj (253811) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948278)

Here's a clue.
1) Microsoft is a monopoly. This is legal as long as they don't abuse their position of power.
2) Turn back to the mid-90s. Netscape owns the browser market. In their attempt to crush Netscape, MS needs a competitive browser, i.e., one that supports Java. They sign a deal with Sun.
3) By the late 90's Netscape is toast. MS says, man this platform-neutral stuff is bad news, Let's pull out the old "embrace and extend" technique and get the drone developers using our Java "enhancements."
4) Sun says, "Hey, we define Java, and that's not Java anymore. Meet us in court."
5) Judge determines MS is using the fact they own the desktop to attempt to kill Java (not to mention the fact that they never released a VM beyond 1.1). This is an abuse of monopoly power. This being the third time or so that MS has been convicted, the judge actually does something about it.

Re:I dont get this... (1)

bubbha (61990) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948139)

Seems to me that MS should have to compensate Sun in this manner for their preditory practices.

Re:I dont get this... (3, Informative)

geek (5680) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948158)

I think it was an "all or nothing" solution. MS wants to include a broken Java, SUN says no, they have to carry a real Java VM.

I think what the decision means is that if MS is going to include Java in it's OS's they have to include the OFFICIAL Java from SUN and not the broken one they released.

I could have read it wrong tho

Re:I dont get this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948208)

What a shame. The "Official" one is sloppy. It's slow, it hogs resources, and it crashes regularly.

I hope I have the option of uninstalling it.

Re:I dont get this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948265)

on the other hand, the "unofficial" one breaks all new java programs in subtle and difficult to detect ways.

Re:I dont get this... (1, Troll)

Exmet Paff Daxx (535601) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948163)

Why is MSFT forced to include a piece of software written by their competitor into their Operating System?

That's simple; Java is Free and Open like the GPL!!

Re:I dont get this... (1)

swschrad (312009) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948201)

because of the usual Microsoft strategy... agree to bundle something from somebody else, but "revise and extend" it with proprietary MS hooks, put out development tools that cross-operate invisibly with other MS dev tools, and co-opt the other guy's trademark into another proprietary MS lockdown.

if you use J++ to its best advantage, the "java" it cranks out doesn't run on anything else but the MS java engine, which is not going to be extended due to losing another court case.

it's the same kind of parasitic gutsucking that MS has been doing for years, and three consent decrees.

that's why the judge ruled as he did. the weight of evidence, it is called down by the court house.

Re:I dont get this... (3, Insightful)

jjohnson (62583) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948236)

Did you miss the whole antitrust trial where Microsoft was found to be, not just a monopolist, but an abusive, predatory monopolist (and then upheld on appeal)? That's why they're being forced to include java: it's called punishment for past wrongs that are about to be repeated.

Re:I dont get this... (1)

Taldo (583925) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948247)

Why should MSFT be allowed to take their competitor's product, alter it so that it will no longer be compatible with the original, and then rerelease it under the same name?

It's called rebranding and it's illegal.

They got smacked. Get over it.

Re:I dont get this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948257)


They already chose include Java by default... an old decrepid version of it. Now they will be forced to carry up to date versions.

There's a good reason for that... (2)

intermodal (534361) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948260)

it's because there are no good precedents for the computer industry, especially as far as operating systems go. Where does the operating system and the programs/runtimes/etc. begin and end? where does an OS become unethical and/or abusive? where is the line that must be crossed before an operating system is. With the courts trying to prevent this abuse, the problem is that there is no good line. Due to the existing monopoly, there's no way to do anything that won't totally screw Microsoft unjustly that will make a real dent in their power to abuse their position. The best they can hope for is to preserve competition outside the operating system market itself, and to keep the path clear for Java and any of dozens of other things that aren't standard on Windows without allowing them to be negated by Microsoft products that clone them and won't allow the original to be even realized by the user, much less the original creator have any power over their creation. So, since the only true answer is making it all free as in beer (since otherwise, it'll always be a fight for profit rather than just credit), all we can do is pray that they don't screw too many things up with court precedents.

Poor Java (1)

kingkade (584184) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948102)

So much potential (and it still is an absolutely great platform) but it got such a kick in the ribs from MS and this decision is typically late in prescribing a remedy.

Re:Poor Java (3, Funny)

Aram Fingal (576822) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948224)

So much potential (and it still is an absolutely great platform) but it got such a kick in the ribs from MS and this decision is typically late in prescribing a remedy.
Does "it" refer to Java or Windows?

Eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948106)

Applying SP1 of WindowsXP, or a slipstreamed Windows XP SP1 automatically installs the JVM. This is what MS is distributing with the MSDN packs.

How can they be forced to do this when they are doing it voluntarily?

Maillions of Submissions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948107)

Maybe if so many people submit something they're reaaly just looking for a good meta-news site on which to discuss it. After 100 submissions, it's probably a good idea to just post.

Bad idea (1)

The Terrorists (619137) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948110)

Slashdotters must not automatically consider this a good thing.


Who says that every such order will be to the benefit of Windows and the user?


Let's just say that all the Linuxophiles' gripes about windows were made moot and the software became what it could be - a truly universal effective program intelligible to most humans.


This happened because of the courts forcing it to do so.


Alternative OSes would not prosper in such an environment. Indeed, they would be dropped as everyone but diehard iconoclasts switched to new, improved Windows.


At this level of dependence, people would be as vulnerable to a bad decision by the courts as they would be to a bad decision by bill gates.

No offense but... (1)

Squidgee (565373) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948185)

> and the software became what it could be - a truly universal effective program intelligible to most humans. You just discribed Windows as it is now; intelligible to most people. and effective. Not nearly as effective as it could be, but it is effective.

That's ludicrous (2, Insightful)

I Am The Owl (531076) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948111)

What's next? Should Microsoft be forced to include Mozilla with every copy of Windows? How about Linux? Should they have to include 1 copy of FreeBSD, Linux, BeOS and QNX with every sale of their Windows software?

Now, don't get me wrong, I hate MS as much as the next guy in the open source community, but doesn't this open up a slippery slope? Where does it stop?

Re:That's ludicrous (1)

Squidgee (565373) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948162)

With any luck it ends when Windows is nearly monopoly free! And good!

Re:That's ludicrous (5, Insightful)

jjohnson (62583) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948202)

Not really, since Sun/Java was directly named in the findings of fact. The only other entity that might seek similar relief is Netscape. I wouldn't cry over the forced inclusion of that, either.

The judge isn't forcing Microsoft open to competition generally, he's remedying a situation in which a company was wronged in the past, and (successfully) claimed they were about to be wronged again. This pretty significantly limits the number of companies with a claim.

Re:That's ludicrous (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948239)

This is meant to be a punishment. Microsoft abused its monopoly position, and therefore has to do as its told, otherwise the courts might actually do something.

Perhaps they should be forced to give customers a choice of which browser to use. They were guilty of using these tactics against Netscape (although Netscape seemed to try to push out competitors with their own HTML extensions), and part of their monopolist tactics seemed to revolve around giving IE away. It wouldn't even cost them anything to bundle Mozilla.

As for Linux - Possibly. It forces them to show that there is a choice.

Forcing them to Bundle BeOS would be quite logical since it was MS's behaviour that killed it. This could have been a serious punishment since this would actually create an installed userbase of a faster, cleaner, better OS which had only one downside of lack of support. But it's up to MS to prove to the court that the inclusion of a piece of software would do a disproportinate amount of damage for the crime they committed.

That's what happens when you take lunch money.. (1)

bADlOGIN (133391) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948255)

It's not a question of stopping, it's a question of starting. They didn't start slipping down any slope until they refused to play nice and got slapped with the Monopoly sticker. Now, they don't get to play like the other kids do. They have to serve detention, and will be singled out for discipline when things go wrong that nobody else can be blamed for. Didn't you spend any time playing on the playground?

Re:That's ludicrous (5, Insightful)

limekiller4 (451497) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948286)

First, I honestly feel bad for ya because you're going to suffer the "Slashdot Death by Disagreement" fate. I disagree with you, but that does not, in of itself, make your post bad. It should be moderated, IMO, merely by how it contributes to good discussion.

To answer, however, I think that the Reuters article [com.com] covers that question well by quoting the judge:

"'It is an absolute certainty that unless a preliminary injunction is entered, Sun will have lost forever its right to compete, and the opportunity to prevail, in a market undistorted by its competitors' antitrust violations,' Motz wrote in his decision."

Re:That's ludicrous (2, Insightful)

valisk (622262) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948287)

but doesn't this open up a slippery slope?
Not really, imho its a justified punishment, MS deliberately built an incompatible Java substitute and shipped it with windows, which discouraged users from downloading the multi-platform Sun offering, thereby stifling it's potential to unite various OSes (however dubious that potential may have been). It also didn't help that it gained a reputation for being highly buggy and causing browser crashes ad infinatum. Then when Java was considered an dying backwater they decided to remove support altogether, no doubt in favour of VBscript and those awful Active X insecurity applets, yuk :(~

Mildly good news? (2)

MartinG (52587) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948113)

Well, I can't see how this could be considered "bad" news by those of us who would like to see Microsoft lose their strangle hold on the industry, but surely I'm not the only one thinking this is too little too late.

Battle of the EULAs! (5, Funny)

gpinzone (531794) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948114)

Now all Sun has to do is change their EULA to conflict with Microsoft's EULA. Hilarity ensues.

Not Fair! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948121)

Not fair! I found it first!

taking bets (2)

Alien54 (180860) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948126)

Of course, they were ordered to pull it out because they modded the java code, in an attempt to improve performance.

Too bad this broke stuff.

What are the odds this happens again?

It has just occurred to me that this sort of result is what you get to see with script kiddies and regular code.

script kiddie as a company policy. who would have thought?

An up to date version, or the crippled 1.1? (2)

aquarian (134728) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948127)

So does Microsoft have to include an up to date version of Java, or can they continue supplying the crippled, out of date 1.1, like they've been doing for years?

Microsoft's dropping Java with XP might almost have been a blessing -- most users would have downloaded it anyway, therefore getting an up to date version.

Nice. (2, Insightful)

Squidgee (565373) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948134)

Nice. Java is a good concept. Slow, mind you, but good, since what runs on Windows (written in Java) will run on Linux will run on Mac OS X. It makes the OS world a better place.

How about my VM? (2, Funny)

zerofoo (262795) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948137)

I made a virtual machine in college. It is based on an LL1 type language and the language is compiled into an intermediate byte code, and then executed on a virtual machine that is platform specific. It's a little buggy, and it crashes the machine occasionally, (hey, I only had one semester in my compilers class to finish it!) Maybe I can force Microsoft to carry it....after all it is a competing technology.

-ted

Microsoft to include a patch! (0, Flamebait)

Valiss (463641) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948145)

I bet they'll find a way to screw up the inclusion of Java thereby making it necessary for you to d/l a service pack to fix it bi-weekly.

Java is a Piece of Crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948153)

Having java come with Windows means absoluteky nothing to anyone. You could install it yourself...what is the big deal?

What happens to java when SUNW goes belly up?

Extensive coverage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948154)

From gns [google.com]

Of course this is a good thing (3, Informative)

00_NOP (559413) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948159)

Those posters who suggest that the courts getting involved might not be good have missed the point: MS is operating an (illegal) monopoly. 98% of the world's computer users are using their software. If MS don't like you, you get screwed, so the courts' intervention can only be a good thing. In a future world where we using all sorts of different OSes and relying on standards to interact then maybe court intervention might be problematic. But we aren't there and we aren't geoing to there for many, many, years to come.

Duopoly? (3, Insightful)

hebble (35128) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948165)

Wait, so let me get this straight:

If Microsoft bundles its own add-ons into its OS, that's monopolistic and bad; but if Microsoft bundles someone else's add-ons into its OS, that's competitive and good?

So now instead of one gigantic corporation controlling what's on your computer, there will be two. Ah, so much better.

IN SOVIET RUSSIA (-1, Troll)

CmdrTaco (troll) (578383) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948171)


Cock sucks Java.

rant (0)

MimsyBoro (613203) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948173)

first of all, I too don't understand why are they being forced to include Suns Java. I hate M$FT as much as the next geek but I believe in capitalisim and not in socialisim. If M$FT is big and sucsseful it is their RIGHT to choose what to include in their OS not the courts or SUNs. If they behaved badly(read monopolisticly) they should be fined not forced to help their comptetors. This isn't soviet russia (BTW in Soviet Russia M$FT forces the court to include Java in their OS). As much as I do hate those rich pigs I have to admit their software is good (yet buggy and annoying) and their marketing is great. On the otherhand it took me three tries to get mandrake installed right on my machine and in the first few weeks it crashed 3 times. I don't recommend linux for my grandma just yet. (Mandrake 9 to those who were wondering). Bring on the mods

"include" in what sense? (1)

josephgrossberg (67732) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948177)

Can they include it and then set it defaulted to "off" for "security" reasons?

Not forced, but prohibited (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948178)

I don't think Microsoft is "forced" to distribute Sun Java so much as they're prohibited from distributing their own handicapped version when they *choose* to distribute Java.

Hmmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948183)

Maybe they should order it to be included with gnu/hurd as well.

News flash (1)

first axiom (311777) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948194)

Microsoft ordered by court to set my face as default background. Microsoft was found to be ilegally leveraging its monopoly of the operating system market to marginalize my pretty face.

This is just ludicrous. Courts on crack.

Why should Windows carry Java? Every other software vendor has to sell and distribute their own software, not rely on court-orders. Why should Sun be any different? If Windows users want Java they can buy it from Sun or download it.

Re:News flash (1)

WildBeast (189336) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948249)

So I guess, I can create a Java clone and force MS to distribute it for me. We live in a world of great opportunities nowadays

And a ham sandwich, too!! (2, Funny)

bADlOGIN (133391) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948197)

Seriously, considering the history of this trial, Sun should be able to integrate a ham sandwich with Microsoft's OS if they want to.
I do hope this is the beginning of a "death of a thousand paper cuts". Microsoft truely does deserves it. From the looks of it, there's already other lawsuits in line for early January.

Re:And a ham sandwich, too!! (0, Offtopic)

Valiss (463641) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948256)

Or at the very least a MLT: mutton, lettuce and tomato sandwich where the mutton is nice and lean, and the tomato is ripe....they're so perky. I love that.

I have the karma to burn (5, Funny)

Quasar1999 (520073) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948205)

An anonymous reader was the 17,232th person to submit...

17,232th? What the hell? No, no, no... you see this is the reason that Microsoft didn't want java included in the first place... stupid syntactical errors like the above can be generated quite easily using java, but asp libraries prevent such mistakes, and would have genereated '17,232nd' as the proper response.

Well, unless of course a human wrote that... in which case, shame on you... proof read dang it!

But on a serious note (to help save my karma), putting aside that this is microsoft, and they are evil, doesn't imposing the will of SUN onto microsoft violate something? or at the very least lower them to the same level? Microsoft wasn't preventing java from running on their os, they simple did not BUNDLE a competing product. What the hell? I don't see the problem. What next? DVD manufacturers have to bundle competing (free) DVD player software with their drives? I think not! Although MS deserves it... as a whole, this is not the right thing to do.

spreading the wealth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948211)

Acholi - Mot ki Yomcwing Botwo Me Mwaka Manyen Adhola - Wafayo Chamo Mbaga & Bothi Oro Manyeni Aeka- Keremisi jai be Afrikaans - Geseende Kerfees en 'n gelukkige nuwe jaar Ahtna - C'ehwggelnen Dzaen Albanian - Gëzuar Krishlindjet Vitin e Ri! Aleut - Kamgan Ukudigaa merry christmas, christmas, countdown to christmas, chanukah, kwanzaa, season's greetings Alsatian - E gueti Wïnâchte & E glecklichs Nej Johr! Alur - Wafoyo Kado Oro & Wafoyo Tundo Oro manyeni Alutiiq - Spraasnikam & Amlertut Kiaget! Amharic - Melkam Yelidet Beaal Amuesha - Yomprocha' ya' nataya Play our Holiday Concentration Game, click here Angami - U kenei Christmas mu teicie kes a-u sie teicie kesa-u sie niepete keluo shuzaie we Apache (Western) - Gozhqq Keshmish merry christmas, christmas, countdown to christmas, chanukah, kwanzaa, season's greetings Arabic - I'D Miilad Said ous Sana Saida Aragonese - Nabidà! & Goyosa Añada benién. merry christmas, christmas, countdown to christmas, chanukah, kwanzaa, season's greetings Aramaic - Edo bri'cho o rish d'shato brich'to! Aranés - Bon Nadau! Arawak - Aba satho niw jari da'wisida bon Armenian - Shenoraavor Nor Dari yev Soorp Janunt Aromanian - Crãciunu hãriosu shi unu anu nãu, bunu! Asturian - Bones Navidaes & Gayoleru anu nuevu! Assamese - Rongaali Bihur xubhessaa lobo Ata - Maroyan na Pasko woy kaopia-an ng Bag-ong Tuig kaniyo't langon mga sulod Aukan - Wi e winsi i wan bun nyun yali Aymara - Sooma Nawira-ra Azeri - Tezze Iliniz Yahsi Olsun merry christmas, christmas, countdown to christmas, chanukah, kwanzaa, season's greetings Bafut - Mboni Chrismen & Mboni Alooyefee Bahasa/Malaysia - Selamat Hari Natal dan Tahun Baru Bamoun - Poket Kristmet & Poket lum mfe Banen - Enganda ye hiono mes & Hion Hios Hes Bandang - Mbung Mbung Krismie & Mbung Mbung Ngouh Suiie merry christmas, christmas, countdown to christmas, chanukah, kwanzaa, season's greetings Basque - Zorionak eta Urte Berri On! Bassa - Ngand Nwi Lam & Mwi Lam Batak Karo - Mejuah-juah Ketuahen Natal Bemba - Kristu abe nenu muli ino nshiku nkulu ya Mwezi Belorussian - Winshuyu sa Svyatkami i z Novym godam! To view the flags and hear the anthems of these countries, click here. Bengali - Shuvo Baro Din - Shuvo Nabo Barsho Bhojpuri - Naya Sal Mubarak Ho Bicolano - Maugmang Capascuhan asin Masaganang Ba-gong Taon! merry christmas, christmas, countdown to christmas, chanukah, kwanzaa, season's greetings Bislama - Mi wisim yufala eerywan one gutfala Krismas & mo wan hapi New Year long Blaan - Pye duh di kaut Kristo klu munt ug Felemi Fali! Blackfoot - I'Taamomohkatoyiiksistsikomi Bohemian/Czech - Prejeme Vam Vesele Vanoce a Stastny novy rok Brahui - Arkas caik xuda are Play our Holiday Concentration Game, click here Breton - Nedeleg laouen na bloav ezh mat Bulgarian - Chestita Koleda i Shtastliva Nova Godina Bulu - Duma e bo'o Bura - e be Zambe e Usa ma ka Kirisimassu merry christmas, christmas, countdown to christmas, chanukah, kwanzaa, season's greetings Catalan - Bon Nadal i feliç any nou! Cantonese - Seng Dan Fai Lok, Sang Nian Fai Lok Carib - Sirito kypoton ra'a merry christmas, christmas, countdown to christmas, chanukah, kwanzaa, season's greetings Carrier - Zoo dungwel & Soocho nohdzi doghel Carolinian - Ameseighil ubwutiiwel Layi Luugh me raagh fee The World's Main Languages Cebuano - Malipayong Pasko ug Bulahang Bag-ong Tuig! Chamorro - Filis Pasgua & Filis Anu Nuebo Chaha Bogem h n mh m & Boxem as nana-h m Chamba - Wi na ge nyare Su dome Kirismass Cherokee - Danistayohihv & Aliheli'sdi Itse Udetiyvsadisv Cheyenne - Hoesenestotse & Aa'e Emona'e Chichewa - Moni Wa Chikondwelero Cha Kristmasi Chiga - Mwebare khuhika - Ha Noel merry christmas, christmas, countdown to christmas, chanukah, kwanzaa, season's greetings Choctaw - Yukpa, Nitak Hollo Chito Cornish - Nadelik looan na looan blethen noweth Play our Holiday Concentration Game, click here Corsican - Bon Natale e Bon capu d' annu Cree - Mitho Makosi Kesikansi Creek - Afvcke Nettvcakorakko Merry Christmas Creole/Seychelles - Bonn e Erez Ane Croatian - Sretan Bozic Merry Christmas Dagbani - Ni ti Burunya Chou & Mi ti yuun Damara/Nama - Khiza Danish - Glædelig Jul og godt nytår Click on any language Name for detailed information Dibabawon - Marayaw na Pasko aw Bag-ong Tui g kaniyo tibo na mga soon Dinka - Miet puou yan dhiedh Banyda tene Yin Dine/Navajo - Ya'at'eeh Keshmish Divehi - Ufaaveri aa ahareh Happy New Year Dschang - Chrismi a lekah Nguo Suieh Duri - Christmas-e- Shoma Mobarak Happy New Year Dutch - Vrolijk Kerstfeest en een Gelukkig Nieuwjaar! Egyptian - Colo sana wintom tiebeen English - Merry Christmas & Happy New Year The History of The Christmas Card Eritrean - Rehus-Beal-Ledeat Esperanto - Gajan Kristnaskon & Bonan Novjaron Estonian - Rõõmsaid Jõulupühi ja Head uut aastat Éwé - Blunya na wo Ewondo - Mbemde abog abyali nti! Mbembe Mbu! Faroese - Gledhilig jól og eydnurikt nggjár! Fali - Use d'h Krismass Farsi - Sal-e no mubarak Fijian - Me Nomuni na marau ni siga ni sucu dei na yabaki vou Finnish - Hyvää Joulua or Hauskaa Joulua - 0nnellista uutta vuotta Flemish - Zalig Kerstfeest en Gelukkig nieuw jaar French - Joyeux Noël et Bonne Année! Frisian - Noflike Krystdagen en in protte Lok en Seine yn it Nije Jier! Friulian - Bon Nadâl e Bon An Gnûf Fulfulde - Jabbama be salla Kirismati Gaddang - Mangamgam Bawa a dawun sikua diaw amin Galician - Bon Nadal e Bo Ani Novo Gari - !Soalokia God i gotu vasau, mi lao ke ba na rago vanigira ara dou i matana! Gciriku - Mfiyawidi yaKrisimisa & Marago ghaMwaka waUpe Georgian - Gilotsavt Krist'es Shobas & Gilosavt akhal ts'els German - Froehliche Weihnachten und ein glückliches Neues Jahr! Gikuyu - Gia na Thigukuu njega Na MwakaM weru wi Gikeno Gitskan - Hisgusgitxwsim Ha'niisgats Christ gankl Ama Sii K'uuhl! Golin - Yesu kule nongwa kaun umaribe ongwa ena mone di mile wai wen milo Greek - Kala Christougenna Ki'eftihismenos O Kenourios Chronos Greenlandic - Juullimi Ukiortaassamilu Pilluarit Guahibo - Pexania Navidadmatacabi piginia pexaniapejanawai paxainaename Guambiano - Navidadwan Tabig tugagunrrigay & Sru pilawan kasrag utunrrigay Guarani - Avyaitete ahi ko Tupa ray arape qyrai Yy Kapyryin rira To view the flags and hear the anthems of these countries,click here. Guarayu - Imboeteipri tasecoi Tupa i vave! & Ivve ava Tupa rembiaisu toyuvirecoi turpi oyeaisusa pipe! Gujarati - Natal ni shub kaamnao & Saal Mubarak Gwere - Osusuku Omusa & Masuke Omwaka Gwich'in - Drin tsal zhit shoh ohlii & Drin Choo zhit zhoh ohlii Han - Drin tsul zhit sho ahlay & Drin Cho zhit sho ahlay Hausa - Barka da Kirsimatikuma Barka da Sabuwar Shekara! Hawaiian - Mele Kalikimaka & Hauoli Makahiki Hou Haya - Waihuka na Noeli & Waihhuka n 'Omwaka Hebrew - Mo'adim Lesimkha. Shanah Tova Heiban - Ati kalo gathje uwa gigih Herero- Okresmesa ombwa Ombura ombe ombwa Play our Holiday Concentration Game, click here Hiligaynon - Malipayon nga paskua & Malipayon Nga Bag-ong tuig Hindi - Shubh Naya Baras Holo - Seng-tan khoai-lok! Hmong - Nyob Zoo Xyoo Tahiab Hungarian - Kellemes karácsonyi ünnepeket és Boldog újévet! Hungduan - Maphon au nitungawan. Apo Dios Kituwen baron di toon Iban - Selamat Ari Krismas enggau Taun Baru Ibanag - nga Pascua Icelandic - Gle©£ileg Jól og Farsaelt Komandi ár! Igbo - Ekelere m gi maka Keresimesi na ubochi izizi afo ozo Ikiribati - Te Mauri, Te Raoi ao Te Tabomoa nakoimi nte Kirimati ao te Ririki ae Bou Ilocano - Naimbag a Pascua ken Naragsac nga Baro nga Tawen! Imbongu - Gotenga malo Jisasi Karaist Indonesian - Selamat Hari Natal & Selamat Tahun Baru Inupiaq - Annaurri Aniruq & Paglaun Ukiutchiaq Inupiatun - Quvianaq Agaayuniqpak Iraqi - Idah Saidan Wa Sanah Jadidah Irish - Nollaig Shona Dhuit Iroquois - Ojenyunyat Sungwiyadeson homungradon nagwutut & Ojenyunyat osrasay Italian - Buon Natale e Felice Anno Nuovo Japanese - Shinnen omedeto. Kurisumasu Omedeto Javanese - Sugeng Natal lan warsa enggal Jèrriais - Bouan Noué et Bouanne Année Kabyle - Assegwas ameggaz Kadazan - Kotobian Tadau Do Krimas om Toun Vagu Kahua - Na vagevageha surireua na Kirisimasi ma na harisi naoru Kala Lagaw Ya - Ngi ngayka Koei trimal Kaz Kambaata - eman haaro wegga illisholce Kamba - Ithiwa na Kisimsi Kiseo & Na Mwaka Mweu Museo Click on any language Name for detailed information Kannada - Hosa Varushada Subhasayagalu Karelian - Rastawanke Sinun, Uvven Vuvenke Sinun Kaqchiquel - Dios tik'ujie' avik'in Kashmiri - Christmas Id Mubarak Kawalib - Amirnar Krismas Gi Khasi - Krismas basuk & Snem thymmai basuk Kinyarwanda - Umunsi Mwiza Kirundi - Noeli Nziza & Umwaka Mwiza Kom - Isangle Krismen & Isangle beng i fue Konkoni - Khushal borit Natalam Korafe - Keremisi ewewa Korean Sung Tan Chuk Ha Kosraean - Tok Tapeng & Engan ya sasu Koyukon - Denaahto' Hoolaank Dedzaanh Sodeelts'eeyh Krio - Appi Krismes en Appi Niu Yaa Kuanua - A Bona Lukara na Kinakava Please send us your additions or corrections. Kurdish - Seva piroz sahibe u sersala te piroz be Kwangali - Kerekemisa zongwa & Erago moMumvho gomupe Kyrghyz - JangI jIlIngIz guttuu bolsun! Ladin - Bon Nadel y Bon Ann Nuef Lakota - Wanikiya tonpi wowiyuskin & Omaka teca oiyokipi Lamnsó - Kisheri ke Kisimen & Vijung ve kiya kefiyki Lango - Afoyo Chamo Mwake & Apoyo Mwaka Manyeni Play our Holiday Concentration Game, click here Latin - Pax hominibus bonae voluntatis Latvian - Prieci'gus Ziemsve'tkus un Laimi'gu Jauno Gadu!+ Lausitzian - Wjesole hody a strowe nowe leto Lebanese - Milad Saeed wa Sanaa Mubarakah Lithuanian - Linksmu Kaledu ir laimingu Nauju metu Livonian - Jovi talshpivdi un Vondzist uto aigasto Lower Tanana - Bet'oxdilt'ayi bedena' ch'exulanhde dranh ninoxudedhet To view the flags and hear the anthems of these countries, click here. Lozi - Kilisimasi ya nyakalalo & Silimo se sinca sa tabo Luganda - Amazalibwa Agesanyu & N'Omwaka Omujaa Ogwemirembe Luhya - Isuguku Indahi & Nu Muhiga Musha Luo - Sikuku Mar Higa Kod Mor & Mar Kiga Manyien Luritja - Wai! Nyuntu Larya? Luxembourgeois - Schéi Krëschtdeeg an e Schéint Néi Joer Macedonian - Srekan Bozik I Nova Godina Madura - Pada salamet sabhala bengko areja Makassar - Salama' Natal & Selamat Tahun baru The History of The Christmas Card Malagasy - Arahaba tratry ny Krismasy Mambwe - Kristu aye namwe umu nsikunkulu ino iya Mwezi Malayan - Selamat Hari Natal Malayalam - Puthuvalsara Aashamsakal Maltese - Nixtieqlek Milied Tajjeb u Sena Tajba Mandarin - Kung His Hsin Nien bing Chu Shen Tan Mandobo - Mepiya Pagasaulog sa pagka-otawni Jesus aw maontong kaling Omay! Mangyan - Mayad paq Pasko kag Mansaka - Madyaw na Pasko aw malipayong Bag-ong Tuig kamayo, mga lumon The World's Main Languages Manx - Nollick ghennal as blein vie noa Maori - Kia orana e kia manuia rava i teia Kiritimeti e te Mataiti Ou Marathi - Shub Naya Varsh Margi - Use aga Kirismassi Marshallese - Monono ilo raaneoan Nejin & Jeramman ilo iio in ekaal Mataco-Mataguayo - Lesilatyaj ihi Dios ta i ppule ye, Letamsek ihi wichi ta Dios ikojejthi ta i honat e Maya/Yucateco - Utzul mank'inal Click on any language Name for detailed information Medlpa - Enim Mutuiyo! Meithei - Krismas Hlomum & Kumthar Lawmum Mingrelian - k'irses mugoxuamant & axal ts'anas mugoxuamant Mongolian - Zul saryn bolon shine ony mend devshuulye Monégasque - Festusu Natale e Bona ana noeva Moro - Nidli pred naborete nano Moru - Medu amiri ovuru Yesu opi amaro Muyu - Lip Ki amun aa Natal Kowe Naasioi - Tampara Kirisimaasi Naskapi - miywaaitaakun mikusaanor & kiyaa maamiyupiyaakw minuwaach pipuun Ndjem - Mbeya mbeya Ebiel & Mbeya mbeya mbu Play our Holiday Concentration Game, click here Ndogo - Esimano olyaKalunga gwokombandambanda! & Nombili kombanda yevi maantu e ya hokwa! Ndonga - Okrismesa iwa & Omude Mupe wa Punikwa Nepali - krist Yesu Ko Shuva Janma Utsav Ko Upalaxhma Hardik Shuva & Naya Barsa Ko harkik Shuvakamana Newari - Nhu Da Ya Vintuna Nii - Nim Ono Niuean - Monuina a Aho Kilisimasi mo e Tau Foou Norweigan/Nynorsk - Eg ynskjer hermed Dykk alle ein God Jul og Godt Nyttår Norweigan/Bokmål - God Jul og Godt Nyttår Notu/Ewage - Keremisi dave be Nyanja - Kristu akhale ndi inu munyengo ino ya Christmas Nyankore Mukhulukhe Omwaka Occitan - Polit nadal e bona annada Ojibwe (Chippewa) - Niibaa' anami'egiizhigad & Aabita Biboon Oneida - Wanto'wan amp; Hoyan Oriya - Sukhamaya christmass ebang khusibhara naba barsa Orokaiva - Keremisi javotoho Oromo - baga wagaa hara isinin gaye Palauan - Ungil Kurismas Pompangan - Malugud Pascu at saca Masayang Bayung Banua! Pangasinan - Maabig ya pasko & Maliket ya balon taon Papiamento - Bon Pasco i Feliz Aña Nobo Pashto - De Christmas akhtar de bakhtawar au newai kal de mubarak sha. Pennsylvania German - En frehlicher Grischtdaag unen hallich Nei Yaahr! Pohnpeian - Peren en Krismas & Peren en Parakapw Polish - Wesolych Swiat i Szczesliwego Nowego Roku. Portuguese - Boas Festas e um feliz Ano Novo Punjabi - Nave sal di mubaraka Pashto - Christmas Aao Ne-way Kaal Mo Mobarak Sha Q'anjob'al - chi woche swatx'ilal hak'ul yet yalji Komami' Quechua - Sumaj kausay kachun Navidad ch'sisipi & Mosoi Watapi sumaj kausay kachun Quiche' - Dioa kkje' awuk' Rapa-Nui - Mata-Ki-Te-Rangi & Te-Pito-O-Te-Henua Rarotongan - Kia akakakaia te Atua i runga i te rangi Teitei, e ei au to to teianei ao, e kia aroaia mai te tangata nei. Rengma - Anu keghi Christmas nu amapi kethighi wa salam pi nthu chupenle To view the flags and hear the anthems of these countries, click here. Rheto-Romance - Bella Festas daz Nadal ed in Ventiravel Onn Nov Romani - Bachtalo krecunu Thaj Bachtalo Nevo Bers Romanian - Craciun fericit si un An Nou fericit! Rongmei - Mei kathui nata neila mei Khrisrmas akhatni gai mei tingkum kathan tu-na arew we Roviana - Mami tataru Kirisimasi koa gamu doduru meke qetu qetu vuaheni vaqura ia Russian - Pozdrevlyayu s prazdnikom Rozhdestva i s Novim Godom Salar - YangI yilingiz gotlI bulsIn! Sambal - Maligayang Pasko at Masayang Ba-yon Taon! Sámi - Buorit Juovllat ja Buorre Oddajahki Saamia - Muwule Omwaka Enjaya Samoan - Ia manuia le Kilisimasi ma le tausaga fou Sango -Gloire na Nzapa na ndouzou aho kouè, Na siriri na ndo sessé na popo ti ajo so amou nguia na Lo. Santali - Raska nawa Serma Saramaccan - Nuan wan suti jai o! Sardinian - Bonu nadale e prosperu annu nou The World's Main Languages Scots Gaelic - Nollaig chridheil agus Bliadhna mhath ur! Secoya -Sihuanu'u Ejaerepa aide'ose'ere & Sihuana'u huaje ametecahue Semandang - Selemat gawai Natal Seneca - a:o'-e:sad yos-ha:-se:' Serbian - Sretan Bozic. Vesela Nova Godine Sicilian - Bon Natali e Prosperu Annu Novu ! Sinhala - Subha nath thalak Vewa. Subha Aluth Awrudhak Vewa Slavey - Teyatie Gonezu Soga - Mwisuka Sekukulu Songe - Kutandika kua Yesu kuibuwa! & Kipua kipia kibuwa! The History of The Christmas Card Sorani - Newroz le to Piroz be Sorbian - Wjesole hody a strowe Nowe leto. Somali - ciid wanaagsan iyo sanad cusub oo fiican. Sotho/North - Mahlatsi a Matswalo a Morena le Ngwaga o Moswa Sotho/South - Litakalerso Tse Monate Tsa Kere Semese Le Mahlohonolo a Selemo Se Secha Slovakian - Vesele Vianoce a stastny novy rok Slovene - Vesele bozicne praznike in srecno novo leto Sorbian - Wjesole hody a strowe Nowe leto Spanish - Feliz Navidad y Próspero Año Nuevo Click on any language Name for detailed information Sranan - Wan switi kresneti nanga wan bun nyun yari! Subanen - Piak Pasko Pu Piag Bago Tawn Sudanese - Wilujeng Natal Sareng Warsa Enggal Happy New Year Suena - Kerisimasi kokopai Surigaonon - Malipayon na pasko sanan bag-on tuig! Happy New Year Swahili - Krismas Njema Na Heri Za Mwaka Mpya Swedish - God Jul och Gott Nytt År Tagalog - Maligayang Pasko at Manigong Bagong Taon Tahitian - Ia ora i te Noere e ia ora na i te matahiti 'api Tagakaulu - Madyaw Pagsalog sa Pagka-otaw ni Jesus & Aw mauntong na bago Umay! Tala Andig - Maayad ha pasko daw bag-ong tuig merry christmas, christmas, countdown to christmas, chanukah, kwanzaa, season's greetings Tamazight - Asseggwas Ameggaz merry christmas, christmas, countdown to christmas, chanukah, kwanzaa, season's greetings Tarifit - Asuggas Asa'di Tamil - Nathar Puthu Varuda Valthukkal Tanaina - Natukda Nuuphaa Please send us your additions or corrections. Tayal - Pqaquasta ta. Pquasta hentang na Jesu Telugu - Nootana Samvatchara Subhakanshalu Thai - Suksan Wan Christmas lae Sawadee Pee Mai Tlingit - Xristos Khuwdziti kax sh kaxtoolxetl Tok Pisin - Meri Krismas & Hepi Nu Yia Tokelau - Ke whakamanuia te Kirihimahi & Tauhaga Fou fiafia Tonga - Kristo abe anduwe muciindo ca Christmas Tongan - Kilisimasi Fiefia & Ta'u fo'ou monu ia Toraja - Salama' Natal & Selama' taun baru Trukese - Neekirissimas annim oo iyer seefe feyiyeech! Tshiluba - Diledibua dilenga dia Mfumu - Tshidimu tshipia - tshipia th silenga Tswana - Keresemose o monate le masego a ngwaga o montsha Tubetube - Yayaliyaya Yesu sikabi kaiwena Tumbuka - Kristu wabe namwe munyengo ya Christmas Turkish - Noeliniz Ve Yeni Yiliniz Kutlu Olsun Tutchone/Northern - Ut'ohudinch'i Hulin Dzenu & Eyum nan ek'an nenatth'at danji te yesohuthin ch'e hadaatle sh'o Ukrainian - Veseloho Vam Rizdva i Shchastlyvoho Novoho Roku! Umbundu - Natale, Natale, Oyo O Natale & Eteke Lio Bowano, Illimo Ciwa To view the flags and hear the anthems of these countries, click here. Urdu - Naya Saal Mubarak Ho Uvean - Italo fa ide tau fou nei eseke Uyghur - YanghI yiling ahlqIs bolgey! Valencian - Bon Nadal i millor any nou Vespi - Rastvoidenke i Udenke Vodenke Vietnamese - Chuc Mung Giang Sinh - Chuc Mung Tan Nien Happy New Year Votian - Yvaa rashtagoa! & Yvaa uutta vootta! Season's Greetings Waray-Waray - Maupay nga Pasko ngan Mainuswagon nga Bag-o nga Tuig! Warlpiri - Miri Kirijimiji & Nyuntunpa Ngurrju nyayirni yapa The World's Main Languages Welsh - Nadolig LLawen a Blwyddyn Newydd Dda Yup'ik/Central - Alussistuaqegcikici Yupik/Siberian - Quyanalghii Kuusma & Quyangalleq Nutaghamun Aymiqulleq Xhosa - Siniqwenelela Ikrisimesi EmnandI Nonyaka Omtsha Ozele Iintsikelelo Namathamsanqa Happy Chanukah Yiddish - Gute Vaynakhtn un a Gut Nay Yor Happy Hanukkah Yoruba - E ku odun, e hu iye' dun! Zarma - Barka da Issa hay-yan hann & Barka da djiri barey-yan Zaza - Newroz'a tu Piroz be Zia - Kerisimasi wosewa Zime - El ma ka bar vra aso vei Lu & El ma ka kim na mireu Zulu - Sinifesela Ukhisimusi Omuhle Nonyaka Omusha Onempumelelo

This is the logical extension (1, Troll)

drhairston (611491) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948212)

This is the logical extension of "Airbag Politics". Despite the fact that airbags kill more children than school shootings [forthepeople.org] , the government continues to legislate guns out of existence and airbags into existence. So too shall the government legislate Microsoft out of existence and Sun into a monopoly. Arbitrary conclusions fueled by non-facts are costing hard working enterprises their very existence.

Poppycock!

Re:This is the logical extension (2)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948281)

Arbitrary conclusions fueled by non-facts

Yeah, that's basically what this is... it's an injunction. They'll hold a real trial to sort this out when they get a chance, but for the time being this will have to do.

wow.. (1)

compwiz (21231) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948213)

There's something I never actually expected to read, given the prior settlement of the giant MS lawsuit and the way things were going.

Next up on the list of things to piss off the giant behemoth - making Microsoft include Netscape as its default browser.

hehe (2, Insightful)

SparkyMartin (206236) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948214)

MS is being forced to carry and install software they don't want and won't use. They've been doing that to us for years, now let's see how much they like it!

All I can say is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948215)

LOL!!!!!!

What about other VMs? (1, Interesting)

TummyX (84871) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948216)

How are other Java vendors supposed to compete when Sun's VM is going to be bundled with Windows. What about IBM?

The ruling is screwed.

C# (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948217)

The future is C# not this Java stuff that works on multiple platforms.

Good Thing (TM) (1)

alpharoid (623463) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948225)

Yes, this is a good decision. Many places were pulling Java applets from their sites and switching to Javascript where they could or -- gasp! -- ActiveX. And everyone not running IE missed out on functionality and options.

Since Javascript is usually only programmed to look good (or work) in IE and ActiveX is insecure and MS-centric, it's nice to see Java back by default. Until someone comes along with a better idea, and one that works on as many platforms as Java does, we're much better off with it.

So? (2)

El (94934) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948226)

Yes, but have they been ordered to make it work properly in Windows???

1th Post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948228)

I got 1th Post!!!!

Appropriate coercion? (5, Interesting)

MacAndrew (463832) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948230)

It's interesting to guess whether others are submitting a given story. I guess this was a no-brainer.

Coercion: the power to require Microsoft to include Java is the same that allows the gov't, or any successful antitrust plaintiff, to force them to do anything different. Because of their market power, which puts them on nearly every desktop in America, their default config has a lot of promotional influence. Up to now, that influence has entirely favored Microsoft, which sounds appropriate ... until you get back to that monopoly abuse.

Whether THIS particular coercion is a good idea, we'll see. Whether coercion is never the right thing, well that's much broader.

A partial analogy would be Microsoft owning the default Yellow Pages distributed to everyone's door and selecting who can be in it -- say, virtually everyone but "Sun." Now, anyone can go get one of the other free directories, but will they? Advantage: Microsoft.

Also, Java isn't exactly a competitor's product; it's also an attempt at an industry-wide open standard that Microsoft wants to subvert, dominate, and exploit. Hey, they already tried.

It's a difficult problem to set things right in the wake of antitrust problems. Market forces generally do a decent job of figuring these things out (the "invisible hand"). But when some clever party makes the market its own, and then abuses it, the rules have to change, and gov't regulation, or a breakup, are the most common remedies.

If you don't think MS should have been sued in the first place, you will not believe any of these rationales, and probably not that antitrust is necessary in the first place. Many think some market failures need correction, but not everyone.

microsoft should be ordered... (1)

Stanley Feinbaum (622232) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948238)

to remove or at least fix up outlook.

Worms spread thanks to outlook have caused the world millions of dollars in damage

Reservations on the Ruling (2)

Henry V .009 (518000) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948244)

This is more or less a good thing, but I don't like the precedent.

Why should Sun get special treatment? Does this mean that every Joe, Dick, and Harry, gets to include his platform independant runtime with windows?

And how is Java different from, say, Mozilla or Phoenix? It's simply another application that Microsoft is using its monopoly powers to crush.

With the conditions as they are, all Sun is doing is grabbing onto the coat-tails of Microsoft's monopoly. The only way this is good, is if Microsoft is Sun's only competitor. Otherwise you have just created a second monopoly where there was only one at first.

If this isn't overturned, get ready for about 1,000,000 lawsuits from software makers clambering to get their product included with Windows. Worst case, I can imagine a future where the government decides which software companies survive and which don't, all by deciding who gets to be included on the common platform.

Ludicrous Decisions (1)

FreshFunk510 (526493) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948245)

I can't believe the court ordered Microsoft to include Java in their OS. That's just plain ludicrous.

While I do think it's evil to "sabotage" Java working in the Windows environment, how is there any justification to be obligated to include a competitor's piece of software in your environment? Perhaps we should start forcing Linux/*nix to come packaged with the .Net framework.

If anything, Microsoft should be punished for unfair practices but they shouldn't be forced to make another company's piece of software more visible.

In the end, this all means nothing. All it really means is that Microsoft will find another way of making Java not work with their OS. So I hardly call this a victory for Sun.

I'm wodering... (1)

Squidgee (565373) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948248)

Does the ruling force MS to include an up-to-date fully functional version of the JVM, or just an old cruddy version?

It seems to me if the judgement doesn't specify, MS will choose the latter.

wouldn't worry (1)

v(*_*)vvvv (233078) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948250)

like everything else on windows, it's probably broken to begin with.

user's would either have to fix it themselves, or never know it's there.

and of course, it will surely break again with every new service pack.

Hello people? (5, Interesting)

graveyhead (210996) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948258)

Is it just me, or is this thread boiling over with ignorance?

This is *exactly* what MS did to Netscape a few years back, and a court found them guilty. They bundled their own technology and made it inconvienient to use competing products. *cough* .NET *cough*

It seems to me that this judge is basically just upholding that ruling and *not* allowing MS to do the same thing to Sun.

Read the Judge's Opinion (5, Informative)

Carnage4Life (106069) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948275)

The Judge's opinion is available as a PDF [uscourts.gov] obtained via the C|Net article [com.com] .

Keep it in perspective (5, Interesting)

jjohnson (62583) | more than 11 years ago | (#4948290)

A lot of posters have gone on about the pros and cons of this as a victory for sun. But remember, Sun will benefit very little from this. In the Java software space, they're nowhere. They don't sell the language. They have next to nothing to offer for development tools at a price. About all they get is bragging rights.

It's IBM who's probably tipping the bubbly right now. And, a lot of Java developers.

Ha Hah! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4948291)

You know the voice ;)
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