×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

SGI launches R16000

CowboyNeal posted more than 11 years ago | from the more-power-damnit dept.

Silicon Graphics 352

nkrgovic writes " SGI has just launched a new CPU - the long expected R16000. The new CPU works on 700MHz, has 4MB secondary cache and more goodies. For now the new CPU is only used in SGI's Fuel workstations, but we should expect to see it pretty soon in SGI's Origin servers as well. With new high density compute nodes this should make the Origin's the fastest supercomputing server per square foot."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

352 comments

I'm running one with IRIX! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4964948)

So fast, it helped me get first post.

Re:I'm running one with IRIX! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4964949)

You're gay. And stupid. And you like cock. And you need to kill yourself.

Yes, that means I am encouraging you to commit suicide. Ignore your shrink and listen to meeee. Go. Die. Save us all.

Re:I'm running one with IRIX! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4964956)

You're just mad that IRIX is harder, better, faster, stronger than GNU/Linux.

Re:I'm running one with IRIX! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4964980)

"You're gay. And stupid"

That's redundant. To stick your cock into a man's ass isn't a sign of intelligence. As a matter of fact, the latest research points to homosexuality being a form of retarded development. Instead of adults being attracted to adults of the opposite sex, homosexuals stay stuck in the infantile stage of associating with members of the same sex. Like boys who only play with boys and think girls are 'yucky'.
It's quite tragic really. And since 'sex' means reproduction, and since shit and sperm can't make a baby, homosexuality is actually nothing more than masturbation.

Re:I'm running one with IRIX! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965053)

You're confused. The person who sticks his cock into a man's ass isn't the gay one. A man's ass feels just like a woman's ass, and fucking your wife, girlfriend, sister, or daughter in the ass doesn't make you gay. The gay one is the one who takes another man's cock up his ass. But only if he enjoys it, and then only if he doesn't also like having sex with women. If a man takes a cock up the ass for reasons other than pleasure, like to get a good job or to avoid being beaten to death in a prison cell or to avoid having to wait in that long line at the movie theater, then he's not gay. He's prudent. A man can be prudent without being gay. But if he's prudent and he enjoys it, then he's gay, unless he also enjoys sex with women, in which case he's bisexual. But enjoying fucking women in the ass doesn't make a man bisexual. As we established earlier, a woman's ass feels just like a man's, so a gay man can fuck a woman in the ass without being bisexual. Also, blow jobs don't count, because a woman's mouth and throat feel just like a man's, except that they're generally smaller and less pleasurable. So taking a blow job from a woman doesn't make a gay man bisexual.

So in order to be gay, you have to take another man's cock up your ass for reasons other than prudence, to enjoy it, and to not like fucking a woman's pussy or tits. If you don't have all of those qualifications, congratulations, you're not gay.

Of course, everybody knows that there are two types of men: men who know they're bisexual, and men who don't.

Re:I'm running one with IRIX! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965070)

or to avoid having to wait in that long line at the movie theater

This probably explains how all the Star Wars fans got tickets so early.

Re:I'm running one with IRIX! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965100)

Absolutely. It's a well-known fact that the only way to get into a midnight showing of any movie in the science fiction or fantasy genres is by accepting a throbbing cock into your mangina. In the Golden Age, back when Star Trek V was the hottest thing going, it was the custom to perform the act bareback. The exquisite feeling of hot cock slipping in and out of your dual anal and rectal sphincters cannot be matched, nor even described. But now, what with the recent influx of Lord of the Rings fanboys and their unwashed bottoms, condoms are de rigeur. In fact, the recent release of that Twin Towers movie has resulted in a serious shortage of Trojan Magnum condoms in the major markets of the United States. This seriously affects me, because I find regular condoms uncomfortable; they pinch my johnson so hard around the middle that I can't maintain my erection, which makes it difficult to penetrate the squirming 11-year-old virgin Lord of the Rings fanbois who come to the theater the day before just so they can get good "seats."

Pardon me. This sexually explicit post has given me an erection. I have to sign off now so I can remove my clothing, moisten my left palm with spittle, and stroke and caress my penis until it vomits between one and two tablespoons of thick, bleachy semen onto my belly. I will then scoop up the semen with my fingers, rub a bit onto my nipples, and consume the rest by licking my hands. This act will so arouse me that I will be forced to masturbate again so that I can get to sleep. The second ejaculation will take a bit longer than the first, and will be of considerably lessened force and volume, and will be accompanied by a mild soreness in my scrotum and perineal area. This will sufficiently relieve me of my arousal that I can get a good night's sleep, but I will almost certainly begin dreaming once again of hot, tight, 11-year-old mangina around three in the morning, resulting in a nocturnal emission around 3:30.

Farewell.

Morgan Webb is hot!!!!!!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4964958)

Whoo!!

Re:Morgan Webb is hot!!!!!!!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965026)

Let's hear the Ric Flair:

Whoooooooooooooo!!!!

It runs IRIX? (3, Interesting)

Russellkhan (570824) | more than 11 years ago | (#4964961)

I'm confused. I thought SGI was dropping support on IRIX. Why are they releasing new Irix boxen?

Re:It runs IRIX? (1)

JakiChan (141719) | more than 11 years ago | (#4964972)

While SGI supporting linux on IA32 and IA64 platforms, they're still developing Irix for their MIPS platform. No reason not to, it's still a pretty robust OS.

Re:It has a MIPS? (1)

dehuit (57744) | more than 11 years ago | (#4964977)

I'm confused. I thought SGI was dropping support on MIPS, and switch to Itanium. Why are they releasing new MIPS processors?

Re:It runs IRIX? (4, Informative)

bmajik (96670) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965008)

Nope.

SGI will continue to make investments in IRIX and MIPS until it makes sense to move all of their products and customers to Linux on IA64, and that may not happen until theres something better than Linux+IA64 out :) So who knows when MIPS IRIX will officially go away.

Linux isn't there yet for the bread and butter SGI customers. Neither is IA64.

People still buy IRIX boxes. (2)

Wakko Warner (324) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965101)

Some of our customers' highest-end workstations are SGIs. (There are also a couple Sun Blade 2000s and a LOT of IBM RS/6000s.) SGI will continue selling IRIX and the machiens it runs on until they no longer make money doing so.

- A.P.

Slow news day (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4964963)

Here are some boobies. [nopi.com]

700 MHz? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4964978)

The new CPU works on 700MHz

taking a page out of apple's playbook I see..

congratulations on breaking the elusive 500MHz barrier!

*chuckle*

I'm sure you'll hear about this one.. (-1, Flamebait)

ProtonMotiveForce (267027) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965134)

Uh oh, be prepared for people crawling out of the woodwork telling you MHz don't matter, it's the IO rate, it's the efficiency, etc...

Bullshit. This pathetic, 2-generation old CPU is SGI's excuse to charge you so much for their highly proprietary, extremely expensive _shit_. Talk about a monopoly, these assholes have every scientist out there mesmerized with their crap.

Why don't they just use PPC? Use a Power 4 chip? Hell, use a P4 or AMD? Because they want to charge the government $10 trillion billion dollars to do tasks that could be done more quickly on other platforms for a fraction of the price. And they've got cheerleaders in certain computing domains who _let_ them.

Fuck SGI, and the horse they ride in on.

Re:I'm sure you'll hear about this one.. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965182)

You're an idiot.

That is all.

Behind the times. (-1, Flamebait)

Burgundy Advocate (313960) | more than 11 years ago | (#4964979)

SGI is getting old, and it shows.

So they introduce a new, much-anticipated "supercomputer" processor, and it runs at... well...

700 Mhz?!?

It seems that this is yet another area that desktop hardware has exceeded the old stalwarts of the computer industry. While SGI is poking along at 700 Mhz, I'll be running my P4 at 3 Gigahertz, thankyouverymuch.

It's amazing to me that the Government, and many non-innovative companies, continue to buy this crap. Granted, SGI was once important, but it's coming more and more clear that anything they can do, a good Intel+Nvidia setup can do better -- especially when you consider the clustering that Linux and NT can do.

SGI should throw in the towel. They've clearly been outclassed.

Re:Behind the times. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4964988)

a good Intel+Nvidia setup can do better -- especially when you consider the clustering that Linux and NT can do.

Nvidia? Cluster? You sure you know what you're talking about, pal?

Re:Behind the times. (4, Insightful)

pVoid (607584) | more than 11 years ago | (#4964998)

Sigh...

I thought enough material had finally invaded the net for people to realize Mhz means nothing... I guess I was wrong.

Let's play what if... cause I don't have any facts on this processor: What if the mov operation of said processor is 1 cycle, whereas mov of pentium is 7?...

Where does that put you?

Books are written on CPUs. pick one up, and you'll understand Mhz means nothing.

Re:Behind the times. (2)

Rolo Tomasi (538414) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965195)

I thought enough material had finally invaded the net for people to realize Mhz means nothing... I guess I was wrong.

You mean Apple ads?

Seriously, what 'material' are you talking about? I know about SPEC [specbench.org], according to which the currently fastest CPU is the Itanium 2 1000 MHz, followed closely by the PIV 3.06 GHz. From that I would deduce that even if you've got a relatively slow CPU (in terms of computations per clock cycle), if you manage to run it at very high frequencies, you'll still have one of the fastest CPUs out there.

Re:Behind the times. (4, Informative)

bmajik (96670) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965000)

processor performance has never been SGI's strong point, except for breifly after the R3000 and R10000 were introduced.

SGI's workstation line is largely unimpressive, especially for the 99% case of computer users, hell, even engineers.

The problem is, for a small set of jobs, for a small set of people, nothing else is suficient - at any price. You're either using an SGI, or the work isn't taking place.

That market is continuing to erode, but i dont think it will ever dissolve completely. I think eventually SGi will effectively become a US govt subsidized entity. SGI continues to build the systems that only governments need and only government agencies can afford.

Clustering has nothing to do with the markets SGI sells in. Please don't mention it, it makes me think you don't know what you're talking about.

Do you ?

Re:Behind the times. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965049)

Yeah.... Only that you forgot things like the R8000, which was the fastest FP processor when introduced, the R4000 which was the first mass production 64bit micro (true 64bit), etc... etc....

And then you finish with this gem:

"Clustering has nothing to do with the markets SGI sells in. Please don't mention it, it makes me think you don't know what you're talking about"

So please do apply your own advice first... and shut up.

Re:Behind the times. (5, Informative)

bmajik (96670) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965191)

i dont need a MIPS history lesson. I didn't "forget" any of those CPUs. The R8000 was almost non-existant across SGI's product line.
While it was the first implementation of MIPS4, and it was an FP monster, and had a huge TLB for the time, it really wasn't so hot as a general purpose CPU.
A far as "true 64 bit" in the R4000, which version of IRIX ran on R4k with 64 bit pointers ? 6.2 and 6.5 certainly don't on my IP22.

When the R3k came out it was the first real example of commercially FAST and successful RISC design. It was used in multiple machines from multiple companies. SGI didn't "really" up the ante again until R10k, which was their first offering that was superpipelined and superscalar.

Finally, regarding SGI and clustering:

SGI is not price-competitive with shared-nothing clusters of PCs or Alphas. Nor is it trying to be. You probably know what the O2k/O3k systems are good at and how they differ from any other system being sold today, othewise you wouldn't have responded to me. I think my statement is valid --- the SGI big iron solves problems that shared nothing clusters CANT. Furthermore, they're so much more expensive than shared nothings that if you need shared nothing and buy origin, you're silly.

Re:Behind the times. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965212)

So SGI can only compete in one area: lots of processors with a single memory image. Everyone take note that it is SGI now and not Silicon Graphics.

The problem is that they keep losing money and laying off employees but they don't take the plunge and really tighten their belts. Why are they still trying to push shitty overpriced workstations when it isnt profitable?

SGI is going to drive itself into the ground trying to be the company it is not by trying to sell products in areas where they cannot compete.

Maybe the government should give some money to a company with a future to develop the machines they need.

Re:Behind the times. (1)

grey3 (160961) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965002)

yeah, but i believe that the R16000 is a vector processor whereas the desktop proc's are scalar and don't have the same processing power let alone used for the same tasks. I think i read somewhere that Cray/SGI was going to be using this processor in one of their upcoming Supercomputers that's supposed to rival the Earth Simulator, which uses vector processors by NEC.

Re:Behind the times. (4, Informative)

Twirlip of the Mists (615030) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965111)

Wha?

You, sir, are almost completely uninformed. The R16000 is an R10000 variant, just like the R12000 and R14000 before it. It is not a vector processor, and has no vector units. The R16000 is, furthermore, a desktop processor in its own right, because it's currently being used in the Fuel workstation.

Incidentally, SGI divested itself of Cray some time ago. Cray was bought by a company called Tera Computing, which then changed its name to Cray. They're building the SV2 vector supercomputer now, using their own processors, and they also have an arrangement with NEC to market the SX-6 in the United States with a Cray logo, but that's strictly a resale agreement.

Re:Behind the times. (5, Funny)

Xpilot (117961) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965005)

I'll be running my P4 at 3 Gigahertz, thankyouverymuch.

True, but your architecture still sux ;)

Re:Behind the times. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965007)

You're a dumbass for beleiving that the speed of the co-processer is that significant.

Re:Behind the times. (1)

tliet (167733) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965020)

sgi has been caught up in the Intel fashion du jour by bringing out Intel workstations. Had they not done this, they would have fared much better, witness Sun and Apple.

Another great example of this is Intergraph, they bought the Intel crap as well...

btw, many Intel systems suffer from performance issues that are just there because of the 20+ years compatibility built in. Something 'proprietary' systems usually don't suffer from.

Remember, it's not just megahurtzen that counts!

Re:Behind the times. (5, Funny)

Gregg M (2076) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965022)

My fan runs at 3600 rpm!

I guess that makes it faster than my car. :)

Re:Behind the times. (2)

lennart78 (515598) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965023)

There's also a thing called efficiëncy. At my job we make use of a lot of Alpha's ranging from 500 to 700 MHz. Those speeds look outdated if you're used to intel, but the workload these babies pull is impressive...

Re:Behind the times. (1)

khb (266593) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965033)

sigh clock speed isn't performance. Work done per unit time is performance. Work done per watt is a plausible performance metric as well.

I don't know that the 16000 is the cat's PJ's, but complaining that the CPU clock speed isn't as fast as some other processor is --- well, naive.

Re:Behind the times. (4, Informative)

bendsley (217788) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965091)

You really cannot compare a 700Mhz MIPS chip to a 3000Mhz x86 p4.

You must remember, the R16000 is 64-bit, not 32-bit.
Also, it has 4000k of L2 cache, not 256k or 512k.
Also, out-of-order instruction execution, x86 chips can't do this.

you are trying to compare two things that are completely different.

Re:Behind the times. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965117)

I HATE this! You'd think that slashdot, generally regarded as some of the more educated people on the internet, would know better. Just because a processor is 64 bit does not mean it is any faster than a 32 bit processor! As a matter of fact, all things equal, the 64 bit chip would be slower. Think about it, you're pulling around twice the weight in data, which requires more speed.

Re:Behind the times. (5, Informative)

Twirlip of the Mists (615030) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965124)

You must remember, the R16000 is 64-bit, not 32-bit.

For the record, the R10000 series can run either 32-bit or 64-bit code. All other things being equal, the 32-bit version of a program will run faster than the 64-bit version; you can fit more 32-bit ints into cache at once than 64-bit ints, so the 64-bit version of a program generally suffers more cache misses than its 32-bit counterpart.

On an SGI box, you don't compile for 64-bit unless you absolutely have to address more than 2 GB of virtual memory.

Also, it has 4000k of L2 cache, not 256k or 512k.

That's pretty puny for an SGI. The processors they use in the Origin servers have typically been equipped with 8 MB of secondary cache; the 4 MB version must be just for the workstations, to keep costs manageable.

you are trying to compare two things that are completely different.

On this point, however, you're 100% correct.

Re:Behind the times. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965165)

Have you been hiding under a rock for the last 7 years? The Pentium Pro, P2, P3, K6 and Athlon all feature out-of-order execution.

Re:Behind the times. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965194)


"Also, out-of-order instruction execution, x86 chips can't do this."



Bull.

x86 has done this since the introduction of the Pentium Pro.

Re:Behind the times. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965107)

Why is this at -1? It hurts, but the poster has a point.

guess what (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4964986)

it doesnt run linux nor can it be imagined in a beowulf cluster.. but in soviet russia, r16000 launches sgi!!!

IN Soviet Russia (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965085)

MHZ means breadcrumbs per hour.

too little too late (-1, Troll)

Stanley Feinbaum (622232) | more than 11 years ago | (#4964991)

I hate to say it, but sgi hardware has been underpowered for years. Affortable bsd based solutions have made sgi's proprietary hardware obsolete.

The problem is the mips cpu. Even the new r16000 is much too little, too late. Clocking at only 700mhz, it does not stand a chance against the pentium4, athlon, and celeron chips of today which are clocked far above 1 ghz (even the g4 can probably run circles around it!). A good example of the failure of mips is to look at the nintendo64, a video game system developed which uses a mips processor. It was so slow and underpowered that the playstation, which has been out for 2 years before the n64, still had better and smoother graphics. The n64 should have been the final nail in sgi's coffin.

Sgi's main customer, hollywood, has steadily been moving to bsd based platforms for rendering and production. I doubt this new chip will solve the main problem assosiated with sgi: enourmous costs for the hardware as well as the support. SGI's proprietary OS, irix, is not common or standard and experts in irix are expensive and hard to come by.

PC's running bsd are still a far greater value than expensive sgi hardware.

Re:too little too late (2, Informative)

degreesK (88693) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965011)

The Playstation also used a R3000A MIPS processor. You really don't know what you're talking about.

Re:too little too late (1)

degreesK (88693) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965060)

The word "also" shouldn't be in the above response. Typo. The N64 uses something like a R4300. The difference in graphics quality had more to do with storage. CD-ROM verses "64 Megabit" (8 MB) cartridges - with 32MB cartridges coming out later on it's lifespan.

faster than anything you have used. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965038)

Hertz is not what you think it is....read the above posts to see what I mean.

I think it's clear that unless you have used a Cray, then the processors you mention (i.e. ANY x86-based) are slow as molasses when it comes to MIPS. forget nintendo. take a look at the Supercomputing Top 500 list, you'll see what I mean.

whether they are overpriced...well, that's a different matter. :)

Re:faster than anything you have used. (0)

Kiev() (592438) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965112)

Yep Intel ASCI red is 7th and the fastest cray is 27 so you point?

slashdot mods fuck up again! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965045)

I can't believe all my posts get marked -1, troll|flaimebait when the parent post gets no such distinction. Clearly this is a troll post (hell i've replyed) -- thats post is all about the megahertz myth!

Re:too little too late (1)

stefpe (256175) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965058)

Why are you talking about BSD the whole time?
As far as I know, most(?) of the rendering farms they've been using in Hollywood lately have been running Linux.


And as another poster already mentioned, playstations also use MIPS CPUs. Including the PS2.

Did you ever consider that perhaps Sony and Nintendo didn't use the top of the line CPUs? Or why do you think they can sell a Playstation 2 for $200 when SGI workstations run at what? $5000 and up?


Professional journalists investigate their facts.

Re:too little too late (0)

Paulo (3416) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965118)

Why are you talking about BSD the whole time? As far as I know, most(?) of the rendering farms they've been using in Hollywood lately have been running Linux.

Because it was a troll. Come on, people, can't you do a better job at smelling them?

Re:too little too late (1)

stefpe (256175) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965178)

Sorry 'bout that. I must've eaten something bad on Christmas because I fart constantly. The smell of the trolls gets lost in the noise so to speak.

moron (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965063)

You're either stupid or a troll. Both the N64 and the PSX were based on MIPS processors. The PSX was running a rickety 33MHZ R3000, while the N64 had a 90MHZ R4400, + extra co-processors. The PS2 even has a main CPU that is a design that is MIPS derived,
a 295 MHZ Mips IV derivative.


So, pray tell, if MIPS CPU's suck so much why did Sony use them in both your precious PSX and its successor, the PS2?

Re:too little too late (4, Insightful)

Arethan (223197) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965067)

Sigh...
Come on people. You all root for the Athlon when it is clocked well under the P4, yet you believe that SGI's MIPS line is crap when it tops out at 700Mhz???

Sun's UltraSPARC III Cu tops out at 1.05Ghz last I checked. Does that mean that the P4 at 3Ghz stomps the hell out of it? If you said yes, you are a fucking idiot.

People, the Unix world is far far different from what you are used to in PC land. High speed backplanes, dedicated busses, huge amount of L1 cache, insane L2 cache, incredibly efficient cpu designs (where 1 clock per instruction is pretty much the norm and cache misses don't occur every 3 operations), hot swap damn-near-everything, upwards of 72 processors and 288 GB of RAM...

It all adds up to a fucking badass machine that smacks the piss out of any PC on the planet when it comes to getting its job done. Don't compare apples to oranges. The applications these machines are designed for do not include Quake 3. The benchmarks you have memorized don't mean a damn thing in this realm, so go back home.

Getting back to the article, I'm glad to see SGI coming out with a new CPU. I still see a few SGIs in the wild now and again. If they lock down Irix a bit more security wise and expand their target market, they might be a decent competitor for Sun within the next 10 years. I don't see them winning any shining star awards right off the bat, but if they are persistant they'll do alright in the long run.

Re:too little too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965113)

Uhhh... Yeah. What are you smoking?

SPARC III 1.05 Ghz - 537 SPECint, 711 SPECfp
Pentium 4 3.06 Ghz - 1085 SPECint, 1092 SPECfp

Remember, we're not comparing systems. We're comparing CPUs.

Re:too little too late (5, Insightful)

Tester (591) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965125)

I'm sorry to disapoint you.. but I have no problem agreing with you that the clock speed is not all... But its still important... On our CFD (Computation Flow Dynamics) the kind of thing that SGI super-computers are made to handle.. Our el-cheapo AMD Athlon based cluster kicks the ass of pretty much every SGI in the data-center where it is.. and I think it even kicks the ass of the NEC... So yes, I'm sorry but 3Ghz is more than 4 times 0.7ghz and it does heck a difference.. And if you look at operation per dollar, there is not even a comparison... And I wont tell you how much their OS sucks.. the latest Irix versions feels like linux for 8 years ago (I mean the userspace stuff, I dont know much about their kernel...)..

Re:too little too late (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965199)

Hum... exactly what "flow dynamics" package are you using? I am asking that because this is what I do for a living, and well... the AMD clusters have a loooong way to go. 1st, you have shitty internode BW, thus you have to have the code segmented just right. Then you are doing multiprecission correlations, which the AMD blows (and intel) at due to the smallish caches. Then you have the fact that the AMD doesn't run at 3GHz like you claim... and then well most userland apps can and are ported to Irix....

In other words, shut up troll. Geez I guess now and then people think that by throwing big words like "computation flow dynamics" we may think you are not BSing! Nice try though... BTW, CFD stands for computationAL FLUID dynamics.

And then you bring in the NEC (SX5 I guess) and well jeez I DARE you to post numbers from any nice fortran fd package and compare both the AMD and SX5 results. Jackass....

Re:too little too late (1)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965204)

I've heard this before, and the SpecCPU2000 benchmarks just don't support what you're saying. According to http://www.specbench.org/cpu2000/results/res2002q4 /

For Integer performance, top dog goes to the 3.0 ghz P4 with a score of 1085 base. The Sun Blade 2000 at 1.015 ghz gave a score of 516 base.

In single task FP performance the 3.0 ghz P4 with gave a score of 1092 base performance. The Sun blade 2000 at 1.015 ghz gave a performace of 682 base.

It's mostly the same story for the multiple tasks test (rates). An AMD MP 2400+ gives a score of 15 integer base with 2 CPUs, the Sun gives an 11.4 Integer base with 2 CPUs.

For FP, Sun wins its first benchmark. Scores are 10.5 for 2 AMD MP 2400s, and 14.3 for the 2 Sun Blades. The PC arena gets pretty close to this performance with a 13.5 on 2 2.4 ghz Xeon processors.

So, with the exception of running multiple FP tasks, PCs smoke Suns pretty badly. If you'll take a look at the Itanium marks, they utterly destroy the Sun multiple FP tasks. Itanium maybe isn't really fair, since it's not really exactly at a PC price point.

Re:too little too late (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965236)

I believe you are missing the point.
The P4 only allows 4-way SMP. Most often you only see 2-way. Big iron scales much much further. Well over 20-way, sometimes 50 or more.

Let's see.
P4 3.0Ghz = 4way x 1085 = 4340
UltraSparc III 1.05Ghz = 20way x 516 = 10320

Of course, the Sparc could scale much further than that even. Plus SpecCPU2000 doesn't account for caches. They only give raw number crunching results. Real world data widens the gap even further.

Re:too little too late (4, Interesting)

donglekey (124433) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965136)

Nice troll, and if it isn't, wow. Everything in your post is false. the 700Mhz MIPS certainly does stand a chance against other processors and I would love to have one, but as for price/performance, it is probably a very poor option.

The N64 did well as a system, and had far more power than the playstation. The playstation just did incredibly well.

Hollywood is a city, not a company. I am assuming you are talking about 3D and compositing visual effects studios, of which a few are near Hollywood, California. They aren't going to BSD, they are going to Linux, not just for rendering, but for workstations. Irix is unix and it makes it a very flexible choice for an OS. Because Linux is so similiar, it is also a flexible and powerful.

Re:too little too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965147)

Do you actually know anything about this stuff??? -- "A good example of the failure of mips is to look at the nintendo64, a video game system developed which uses a mips processor. It was so slow and underpowered that the playstation, which has been out for 2 years before the n64, still had better and smoother graphics. The n64 should have been the final nail in sgi's coffin." The playstation also had a mips processor in it. The cpu was a mips R3000 microprocessor. The Playstation 2 emotion engine has three 'cores' in it, one of which is a 128 bit mips floating point coprocessor. http://www.mips.com/pressReleases/102600.html The failing of the n64 had jack all to do with hardware it was about software penetration and better marketing. Mips processors are aproduced by a spin off company (MIPS) that is not directly controlled by sgi. They are a separate company spun off from SGI some years ago. So failures at mips which aren't many in the embedded world, will not kill or be any kind of nail in SGI's coffin. SGI builds supercomputing bricks that are placed in very high volume densities. The largest limitation is heat..SGI don't like to exceed 600 MHZ because they can currently pack more performance in a given formfactor with multiple processors than they can with singular processors like P4/Athlon that give off light bulb like watts of heat. Quote from The Register in August of this year. "at 600MHz, the core of the R14000A processor - designed by SGI and built using a 0.13 micron copper process by NEC - throws off about 17 watts of heat. He says that this is smack dab in the middle of the range of 15 watts to 20 watts that SGI targets for heat dissipation levels with each of its MIPS processors. By contrast, the Sun UltraSparc-III core throws off 70 watts to 80 watts depending on the clock speed, and that other RISC processors on the market and the future Itanium chips dissipate anywhere from 110 watts to 130 watts per processor core, according to Snell. This is obviously too much heat to tightly pack processors to create massively parallel supercomputers, or even dense minisupers. Sometime in 2003, SGI and NEC will move the MIPS processor to a 0.11 micron, eight-layer copper process that will enable the MIPS chip to run at 700MHz and deliver 1.4 gigaflops of processing power. This chip is code-named "N0" and may be branded as the R16000. " Out of curiosity, even given the age of the above quote, how many Gflops are we getting out of those "HOT" P4s and Athlons????? Sounds to me like people need to spend less time worshiping clock speed.

The N64 was what? (2)

qwijibrumm (559350) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965172)

A good example of the failure of mips is to look at the nintendo64, a video game system developed which uses a mips processor. It was so slow and underpowered that the playstation, which has been out for 2 years before the n64, still had better and smoother graphics. The n64 should have been the final nail in sgi's coffin.
For a minute I thought you might know what you are talking about. After reading this I see you do not. The Playstation had worse texture support, fewer polygons per second, and zero anti-aliasing. The N64 destroyed the Playstation in harware performance. The reason the Playstation sold more units and took popularity was quantity of games. Not quality of graphics (or games over-all IMHO). Play the two consoles side by side.

On another note, I'm not even going to begin to comment on your thoughts on clock speed etc. I'm sure everyone else will flame you over the whole Megahertz Myth®.

Re:The N64 was what? (1)

vistic (556838) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965205)

I was just about to post the same thing. I hated the playstations graphics compared to the N64... good thing I saved myself a (-1: redundant).

Re:too little too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965203)

AS pointed out a MIPS R3000 type CPU (32-bit, circa 1985) was used in the Playstation. The R3000 and R2000 were basically the same. I think the Playstation was 33Mhz and had nothing special.

The N64 was using a MIPS R4300 CPU with a whole bunch of 64-bit stuff, which was clocked at around 90-something Mhz

On top of the CPU, the game consoles use specialized graphics and audio chips, much like PCs do.

"fastest supercomputing server per square foot" (2, Funny)

3-State Bit (225583) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965010)

Uh, can I have that in libraries of congress, please? (Or at least cubic foot of server space / "per 1U rackspace").

IN SOVIET RUSSIA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965019)

CPUs launch SGI!

This will be amusing, watching mod points vanish (-1, Offtopic)

caferace (442) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965027)

It doesn't matter.

Go read something besides /., silly person.

Not a general purpose processor (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965043)

The SGI processors shouldn't be viewed as general
purpose processor like the P4 or Athlon. For
specific floating point intensive problems, they
can be quite effective. What is annoying is that
they are usually 2 or more generations behind in
manufacturing process capability. So the lines
and heat dissipation in the 3GHz P4 are much more
advanced than the R16000.

Also, SGI has an annoying tendency to use
proprietary ASIC's in the their memory which
make their entire system much more expensive
than it need be. Some of this is because
their design cycle is so long that when SGI
committed to a architecture, the performance
just wasn't there.

Given these constraints, it is hard to see
how SGI could market "cost-sensitive" systems.

Re:Not a general purpose processor (3, Interesting)

Howie (4244) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965127)

Also, SGI has an annoying tendency to use
proprietary ASIC's in the their memory


If you're refering to the ccNUMA-style systems, it's not just an MMU - it's a whole different architecture for the system. They don't have a bus - they have a switch between core components as the central feature of the system.

Re:Not a general purpose processor (2)

sql*kitten (1359) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965228)

Also, SGI has an annoying tendency to use proprietary ASIC's in the their memory which make their entire system much more expensive than it need be.

Only in the same way that other manufacturers have an annoying tendency not to use Crossbow, which makes their entire systems much slower than they need to be.

Given these constraints, it is hard to see how SGI could market "cost-sensitive" systems.

It's all relative to what you want to do. Sure, SGI won't make a general purpose desktop (altho' they once tried to, with the Indy). But they are competitive for the markets they sell into, which require extremely high memory bandwidth and fast precise rendering. Sacrificing precision for rendering speed like a gamer's PC does isn't an option for CAD or medical imaging.

At the high end, things like CPU power/square foot really do matter, and SGI are competitive there too. Hopefully, the company will be able to recover from the Belluzo regime.

Computer power per watt? (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965051)

Didn't somebody from Google recently say that server density isn't really the issue. The real issue is how much computing power you're getting for a given watt of power?

Mhz Muppets (4, Informative)

Tomah4wk (553503) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965055)

Ok, ive read at least 3 posts on this so i feel i must explaing Mhz. Many idiots will say 'i have a 2 ghz p4 so mine is faster'. WRONG. For example, lets assume a p4 takes about 15 clock cycles for an average instruction (thats made up by the way), this means it can do 2/15 = 0.13G instructions per second. Now lets assume the mips cpu takes 1 cycle per instruction (again, made up figure). This means it can do 0.7 G instructions per second. Alot faster you see...
Disclaimer: I know ive ignored how much work can be done in an instruction, pipelineing and other features, but im sick of all this idiotic posts that think mhz is anything but a meaningless indication of processor speed, like a bogomip :)

Re:Mhz Muppets (1)

Kiev() (592438) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965149)

OK there are no numbers for 16K but here the numbers for 600Mhz 14K SPECint2000 500 SPECfp2000 529 For comparison UltraSPARC III Cu 1.015GHz SPECint2000 576 SPECfp2000 775 AMD XP 2800 SPECint2000 913 SPECfp2000 843 INTEL P4 2.8 SPECint2000 1040 SPECfp2000 1048

Too little too late?? (1)

shamir_k (222154) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965064)

How many people use SGI workstations anymore anyway? The specs for the new chip sound good, but what about application support? Its no use if this is a fast server, if my apps don't run on it. It seems to me that SGI is used mainly in the graphics industry, and there it seems to be losing ground quickly to Linux and BSD based solutions.

Re:Too little too late?? (1)

tuxlove (316502) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965193)

Its no use if this is a fast server, if my apps don't run on it.

Application availability may be a concern for many situations, but not the case when you're building a custom app. People still do that, you know.

IN SOVIET RUSSIA (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965065)

in soviet russia, the Megahertz 0wnz you!

(sorry i just had to post a soviet russia joke for this story as nonone elese has yet!)

fuck you -- first SOVIET RUSSIA post! bah

several have (0, Offtopic)

SHEENmaster (581283) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965116)

but they, like you were modded down

Why does everyone hate USSR jokes? Damn the commies! I'd mod you up if I had points to give.

IN SOVIET RUSSIA (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965089)

Morgan webb launches YOU!!

subnet filter. h4X0r3d!!..HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965095)

mmmmmmwwwaaahhhhhaaaa!!!!!
Iin soviet russia
kat schwartz is hot 2]
blackgasmask wins!!!

SGI is dying (5, Interesting)

Tester (591) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965099)

I worked all summer in an all-SGI shop.. And I call tell you how far behind they are. The place where I work is specialized in HPC, so when they started in 1992, SGI was probably a pretty good choice, but now for workstation, I wouldnt say its overkill, I would actually say that its underkill. We made a benchmark comparing an SGI Origin and a linux Ahtlon cluster, the athlon needed only two nodes to beat the origin and with all 16 nodes where about 10 times faster... SGIs are just overpriced, for 99.999% (that's 5 nines) PCs can do the job and even do it better and especially do it much cheaper. So their workstation market is being destroyed from under them.

On the other end, their HPC (super-computers) is being attacked from above. On that sector, price is not really a problem, its just pure performance. And there too they are being beaten, SGI just does not have the research power that
NEC or IBM can have. So they are starting to be pretty much behind, so they become not only more expensive (which does not really matter), but more importantly much slower...

Also on the workstation market, their desktop SUCKS, its just a pain to use. They are still stuck in the pre-win95 era... It might have been good compared to win3.1 or twm, but it just is not in the same world as GNOME, KDE, WinXP or MacOSX.

Also, their other strengh where there graphics board, they invented modern 3D hardware. And for a long time the roadmap for the PC 3d hardware was simple, they just had to do what SGI already had, but we have now passed a point where the PC hardware has actually more features then the SGI stuff. The only difference now between the pro and game markets are the amount of ram/cache and those "pro" cards exist on PCs. They do cost $ 2000-3000, but they are nowhere near the cost of the SGI workstation that includes them...

SGI has no future. They have been losing money for years. I have been thinking for quite a while that they where a good target for an acquisition, but now that MSFT has bought much of their patents. It might be cheaper to wait for them to go bankrupt and to pick up the pieces. They where in a fast playing game and they have gotten slow.....

Re:SGI is dying (2, Interesting)

scheveningen (305408) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965173)

The only difference now between the pro and game markets are the amount of ram/cache and those "pro" cards exist on PCs.

riiiight, unless you think E&S and Quantum3D are selling regular pc's, enlighten me on:
- memory bandwith
- dynamic resolution
- genlocking
- multi channel displays
- hard real-time update rates
- calligraphic lights

Of course I won't choose SGI every time I need some graphics horse-power. But if you need to get a really big job done in real time, PCs don't cut it yet.

Re:SGI is dying (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965224)

Well, I do know that the Quantum3d solution is built around an nvidia chip. They've bolted on genlocking and such. AFAIK dynamic resolution is external to the pc via a compositor.

Re:SGI is dying (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965197)

Bingo. You're pretty much on point. If you don't need the single memory image that SGI gives, you shouldn't be buying SGI machines anymore. If you can get away with a single memory image and less processors, buy from another company and run an OS with more applications and cheaper development workstations. SGI prices are high because they don't sell in the volume to even attempt to profit in any other way. They're also selling to the biggest sucker of a consumer--government entities and companies that have the cash to throw around. Their workstations aren't competitive and the pricing on those is horrible.

They lost their graphics innovation around the same time nvidia came onto the scene. Now they have serious competition by more than one company in the graphics arena and those companies are fueled by gamers.

SGI has no future. They've been spinning their wheels for the last couple of wheels and they aren't innovating anymore. They might be a target for acquisition, but then again.. who would want them? Since they don't really have a product that is competitive in the fields they sell in, about the only thing they still have are patents.

Someone will get their intellectual property at a huge discount and integrate their NUMA stuff into a system with a better processor and OS.

SGI has no hobbyist program to encourage people to use their hardware.

Look at the open source OS support for their older machines--it sucks.

Old SGI hardware is worthless.

Their Linux efforts exemplify the Achilles heel of SGI. They're divided and indecisive internally, and lose out because of it. They're too small to try to support two architectures and two OS' and the lack of focus just hurts both efforts. Remember their NT machines? That turned out well didn't it. In the end you get the feeling IRIX is the red-headed stepchild that they have a love/hate relationship with.. much like VMS. If you don't know the story of VMS, look it up.

So what are the benchmarks? (5, Insightful)

wayne606 (211893) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965120)

Instead of everybody saying "GHz doesn't matter, dummy" why doesn't somebody quote some real benchmarks? I poked around on the web a bit and all the benchmarks I can find either (1) are out of date, or (2) show Alpha, Intel and AMD blowing everybody else out of the water.

In my experience SGI's are slow but are extremely scalable. With IA32-based machines you'd be lucky to get 4 CPU's sharing memory, unlike the 64+ you get from SGI. Very good for scientific codes but not so hot for applications that are either not parallelizable at all, or embarassingly parallelizable such as Seti@Home or ray-tracing a feature film.

Re:So what are the benchmarks? (1)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965235)

Check out http://www.specbench.org/cpu2000/results/. They don't have the r1600, but the r1400a results they have show the AMD and Intel chips blowing away the SGIs. Unless the 1600 doubles the performance (the 1400a in question already runs at 600mhz), AMD and Intel still dominate over them in general.

SPEC (4, Informative)

Kiev() (592438) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965151)

Before evryone assumes that this thing is fast here some numbers to keep in mind:

OK there are no numbers for 16K but here the numbers for 600Mhz 14K
SPECint2000 500
SPECfp2000 529
For comparison

UltraSPARC III Cu 1.015GHz
SPECint2000 576
SPECfp2000 775

AMD XP 2800
SPECint2000 913
SPECfp2000 843

INTEL P4 2.8
SPECint2000 1040
SPECfp2000 1048

competition (2, Funny)

nEoN nOoDlE (27594) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965166)

Looks like China has some serious competition on the chip front. SGI is already reaching a whole 700MHz! The Dragon better catch up soon is China wants to stay in business.

SGI's reality distortion field: fully operational (3, Interesting)

Emil Brink (69213) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965186)


"[...] the 48-bit RGBA provides the highest level of precision available on any desktop system today"

Oh? Quick, everyone with Radeon 9700 PRO graphics boards in your PCs, make sure you have them in tower cases, or something!

For reference, the ATI specs page states:

Pixel shaders up to 160 instructions with 128-bit floating point precision

I guess SGI might refer to actual output precision, i.e. the RAMDAC D/A-converters... In that case, it seems they still have the edge, since the ATI boards only have 10 bits per component. Still, I think that's of lesser value than the actual precision image operations are performed at.

wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4965188)

bfd

so you can buy one of their billion dollar
boxes and contend with the joy that is irix

or you can put together a linux farm and do
it the easy, cost effective, better way

you choose

(i come from a Former big-name irix shop ..
we dumped them to good effect)

beat that dead horse, guys .. its fun to watch

processor features (5, Funny)

qwijibrumm (559350) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965207)

The R16000 has Out-of-order instruction execution? Sweet! So what was SGI's plan when they made this?
1.???
2.Profit!
3.Build new processor.

Why only 700Mhz? (-1, Troll)

irritating environme (529534) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965210)

I just don't get it, which makes sense since I'm not a CPU designer or fab engineer. But RISC CPUs (like MIPS and Alpha) should be able to run at much faster clock speeds than the CISC-based x86 architectures.

RISC means Reduced Instruction Set. So, simpler and shorter processing pipelines, less transistor complexit, more cache, more registers, no microcode layer. This should allow much faster CPU clocks, like when the Alphas were running at 333 Mhz when x86s were toying with 100 MHz.

So WTF is with 700 Mhz and PPC chips barely cracking 1 Ghz? Is this simply because of a less sophisticated fab process? Anyone know the answer to this?

Why should we care ? (S core=2, Insightful) (-1, Troll)

stud9920 (236753) | more than 11 years ago | (#4965237)

The are two types of slashdot readers : those who are unemployed, and those who will be because they are using company time to read stupid posts.

The former can not afford that expensive videogame, the latter shouldn't.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...