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1.8 Inch Removable Hard Drives Coming

CmdrTaco posted more than 11 years ago | from the now-thats-what-I'm-talking-about dept.

News 135

bedessen writes "According to an article at PCWorld.com, a new type of removable storage known as iVDR will be demonstrated at January's Consumer Electronics Show. The iVDR standard (backed by a consortium consisting of a number of manufacturers) describes a lightweight, compact, removable hard disk drive compatible with a wide range of applications from AV to PC devices. The products on display will come in 2.5" and 1.8" form factors with parallel and serial ATA interfaces. Capacity will start at 80GB for around $170, but manufacturers hope to drop this to under $80 and well as double the capacity by next quarter." Here's hopin'

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135 comments

Good deal? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4976382)

Is this a good deal?

Re:Good deal? (2)

MsGeek (162936) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977019)

No.

THIS is a good deal [compgeeks.com].

I have been using these HD racks since 2001 and I am very happy with them. A regular 3.5" desktop HD fits in one of these like a glove. I have a machine which can boot off of any of 4 hard drives. Just set your BIOS to autodetect your hard drive, and you are good to go.

Re:Good deal? (2)

NetGyver (201322) | more than 11 years ago | (#4978525)

Amen, i have the *exact* same rack from the same place, damn, i love compgeeks.

After looking at the IDVR site, i couldn't help to wonder what the difference was. What's the improvement, what's the features? It's a hard drive, all be it, a smaller one than a laptop drive. So what?? This would probably be something worth while for those people who like to build super small PCs, but like you, i'll stick with my racks.

heh, the reason why i got that particular model is because a friend of mine has the same type/brand. So it makes for easy file sharing when i can't lug my PC around. @ $6.95 a rack you can't beat that price/versitility ratio :)

Desktop machines? (3, Insightful)

Malic (15038) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976393)

You could make a RAID of these things the size of a couple of decks of cards. And I imagine that they kick out less heat.

Seems like a candidate for use in the next generation iMac...

Re:Desktop machines? (1)

Bahamuto (227466) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976414)

I dunno, have you ever tried to overclock a deck or cards? Those babies can heat up pretty good.

Re:Desktop machines? (1)

Spudley (171066) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976467)

have you ever tried to overclock a deck or cards? Those babies can heat up pretty good.

Yes, this happened to me too when I tried it, but I solved the problem by making sure that the king of clubs was as far away as possible from the queen of hearts, and removing both the jokers.

Oh, and I really hope you remembered to take the instruction cards out of the pack before you even started?!

Re:Desktop machines? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4977298)

http://www.spudley.com/prices.html

12 Year old un-funny rip off merchant I think :)

Re:Desktop machines? (2)

Zeinfeld (263942) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976570)

You could make a RAID of these things the size of a couple of decks of cards. And I imagine that they kick out less heat.

More appositely perhaps, you will probably be able to buy a RAID configuration for these drives at consumer prices rather than the ridiculous prices such configurations go for as 'commercial' configurations.

The 1.8" drive would fit pretty well in a camcorder and be much easier to deal with than tapes.

Re:Desktop machines? (2)

Eric_Cartman_South_P (594330) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977796)

Wow... you got me drooooolin. And you didn't even mention pr0n.

Serioudly, imagine two 80gb drives in an iPod. RAID in an iPod. A portable, battery powered mini raid box! If the data was stored with Blowfish or some other encryption, it would be a data-backup dream, along with being the best MP3 player available IMHO.

Let me put one of these in my iPaq.... (2, Interesting)

rudy079 (464049) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976400)

Just imagine if HP makes a jacket that fits this into an Ipaq... ::wets pants in anticipation::

Re:Let me put one of these in my iPaq.... (2, Funny)

Spudley (171066) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976456)

And in other news...

Hewlett Packard have sued Saddam Hussein, claiming that the name of his country is an "obvious copy" of the name of their iPaq product...

Re:Let me put one of these in my iPaq.... (1)

_Pablo (126574) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977027)

Just imagine if they make portable hard disks that are low power, so we can use them for a whole day! ::sells spare batteries in anticipation::

Re:Let me put one of these in my iPaq.... (3, Funny)

commodoresloat (172735) | more than 11 years ago | (#4978173)

Just imagine if HP makes a jacket that fits this into an Ipaq... ::wets pants in anticipation::

I assume you need the jacket to cover the stains in your pants?

iPod? (1)

painkillr (33398) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976402)

What's the form factor size of the HD in the iPod?

If it's bigger than 1.8", then I'm glad iWaited.

Re:iPod? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4976458)

If I'm not mistaken, it's the size of a standard PC Card. I think the iPod's current form factor cannot get any smaller because it has to be built to accommodate the physical size of the hard drive.

IMHO, it would be dumb to redesign the iPod case, because the controls and display are perfectly positioned in the existing one. If they do anything, they should replace the drive with this smaller model, and change the battery design to use the saved space, so you can get more mileage out of a single charge.

Personally, I'd rather see a new TiVo which could accommodate a stack of about 5-10 of these things (while I'm dreaming, let's stick in a RAID-5 option) but could still be shrunk down to the size of an analog cable box from the hulking beast it is now.

~Philly

Re:iPod? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4976837)

Get a DirecTiVo. They're smaller.

Re:iPod? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4976965)

Oh, please, I'm gonna switch to satellite TV just so I can get a TiVo with a smaller form factor?

I hope you never get an ingrown toenail-- you'll probably just amputate your leg at the knee to take care of it.

Re:iPod? (2)

commodoresloat (172735) | more than 11 years ago | (#4978229)

Well, while we're discussing ways of improving the iPod, here's what I want to see - simple recording software and an input jack. So I can plug my turntables into the iPod wherever I am and record without a laptop, and preferably it won't sound like ass. Or connect a mic and record a meeting or whatever. Is the processor too slow to do that? I know there are other devices with this functionality.

The other thing that would be great is if you could tell the iPod to delete a certain song on the fly; sometimes I listen to a song and wonder why the hell I ripped it to the iPod but the chances that I'll remember to delete it next time I connect the ipod to the computer are slim indeed.

Re:iPod? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4976465)

yeah. and how about a nice cup of SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Just how useful is this going to be? (5, Insightful)

John Jorsett (171560) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976403)

The consortium plans to approach the movie industry soon and hopes to complete the standardization of its copy protection code by March, next year, Hioki said.

In other words, "we're still working out how to cripple it in a Hollywood-approved way with DRM."

Re:Just how useful is this going to be? (5, Interesting)

weave (48069) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976489)

Amen. You have to wonder why these storage manufacturers are so willing to risk product failure and a hit to their own profits, to save some imaginary profit hit to some other industry and companies. What's in it for them? (discounting the fact that some of them own entertainment companies of course...)

Re:Just how useful is this going to be? (2, Insightful)

RicktheBrick (588466) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976841)

This would be tremendously useful if someone could figure out how to allow one to go to a store and have both movies and music copied onto the drive. Just think a store could have every copy of every movie and cd ever made and never worry about going out of stock. Someday when one can download at a speed of more than 1 Mega Byte per second than we could eliminate the store and just download our entertainment. At a cost of a dollar per giga byte than it would be cheap enough to store movies(about $4 per movie).

Re:Just how useful is this going to be? (1)

weave (48069) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976865)

Well, for that purpose, being a "secured" disk is not much of a problem. But I see a far greater need (for me) for portable storage for cameras, movie cameras, off-site backups, etc... I sure don't want to shoot my own movies and only be allowed a one-generation copy, for example...

Re:Just how useful is this going to be? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4977725)

Just think a store could have every copy of every movie and cd ever made and never worry about going out of stock.

This reminds me of a Nortel commercial for some reason.

Re:Just how useful is this going to be? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4977628)

What's in it for them? Money, of course! Every time you pay for a $9 movie ticket or buy a $20 DVD, your money goes straight to Hollywood, where they use their high profit margins to pay off hardware manufacturers to implement DRM. Failing that, they have plenty of cash for paying lawyers..

Re:Just how useful is this going to be? (3, Insightful)

kilonad (157396) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977652)

What's in it for them? With the storage business having such a low profit margin, it would seem that there's nothing in it for them. Until you realize that once a few companies start doing it, the rest don't want to be caught with their pants down if the *AA come around with their team of lawyers. They probably figure it's just cheaper and easier to do this now (possibly also in preparation for Palladium) than to get tangled up in a huge legal battle later on.

Re:Just how useful is this going to be? (2)

brain159 (113897) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976561)

Umm, been done - remember the almighty collective panty-twisting session we had a while back when we were all convinced that horrific wide-reaching DRM measures would shortly turn up on all new HDDs? The acronyms and initials don't immediately spring to mind (some number of Cs, might've been 3 or 5) but everyone remembers what I mean, right? This nice new format which has got us all going "oooh oooh! GIMME!" is, my best bet, where all that development work is gonna resurface...

Re:Just how useful is this going to be? (1)

brain159 (113897) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976578)

bah, update to self...

The tech was CPRM (content prevention for removable media), the Evil Entity was 4C, and El Reg's coverage summary is right here [theregister.co.uk].

It's also pretty much the protection measures on SD flash cards (which, along with additional transfer speed, differentiate them from MMC cards), apparently.

Re:Just how useful is this going to be? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4977882)

I think they're use might be limited, I'd be much happier with standard drives
with ieee-1394/serial ata interface and without any consortium at all... It seems
to me that this is just a second take at the "copy-protected" hard drives that some companies
were aspiring to make for a while ago.

A short snippet from their site.
"... Looking ahead to the future, the consortium plans on developing application data format and
content security specifications for the realization of mutually compatible data for a
variety of applications. ..."

Anyone else thinks consortium,security-specifications and data(/file) formats in
the same sentence sounds bad ?
And it seems as consortium members must be profit making entities and that the specification is
confidential ( as a whole, not only security relevant parts ).

Now everyone promise me that if these are as bad as the DVD consortium regarding licensing
etc ( I'll assume that until proven wrong :P ) tell you'r friends to _not_ buy these.

Don't only vote with your wallet. Have your friends vote with their wallets too :)

I could be persuaded into buying in to a DRM system if anyone would be allowed to create/view
content and/or applications for the format without having to sell their soul.

Yeah, I'll think I'll pass on this one... (5, Interesting)

weave (48069) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976407)

From the article:

One more hurdle to clear for iVDR in the use of consumer electronics is that of a copyright protection format. The consortium plans to approach the movie industry soon and hopes to complete the standardization of its copy protection code by March, next year, Hioki said.

Re:Yeah, I'll think I'll pass on this one... (1)

Agent Green (231202) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976420)

This format will also bite the dust, kinda like that stupid DataPlay disc format...which was at one point touted to be the format to replace all other removable formats.

Yeah...right.

Re:Yeah, I'll think I'll pass on this one... (1)

zmooc (33175) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976753)

Which means that the road for buying/selling media over the Internet will from that point be open for everyone. This means e.g. that it becomes a real possibility for artists to sell their own music over the Internet for normal prices. This new sidedoor to the music-market will make prices drop and broaden the available spectrum. Just a possibility:)

Re:Yeah, I'll think I'll pass on this one... (2)

Artifex (18308) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977050)

Which means that the road for buying/selling media over the Internet will from that point be open for everyone. This means e.g. that it becomes a real possibility for artists to sell their own music over the Internet for normal prices.


Uh... are you for real? They already can do that on the Internet using open and free standards. The restrictive-format/storage-device-du-jour can never make things more "open" than already-open formats like Ogg Vorbis, etc. It will actually prove to be another barrier to independent artists who can ill afford to use what will surely be expensive/highly-guarded technologies for DRM.

Who benefits most from DRM? The small artists who have to pay licensing fees for their server, or the global distributor who can eat fixed costs a lot more easily? And if you say, well, the small artists can opt not to use the DRM, well, that's where we are now.

And what happens when you try to move your licensed music off your old laptop to another computer, so you can wipe and sell your laptop, etc.?

Beware of stealth firmware upgrades. (2)

dpbsmith (263124) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976848)

My crystal ball says: early units will have intolerable firmware glitches, you'll be instructed to download a patch, and whammo! any files it thinks you might not be authorized to have become inaccessible...

Bubba (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4976415)

Bubba was bragging to his boss one day, "You know, I
know everyone there is to know. Just name someone, anyone,
and I know them."

Tired of his boasting, his boss called his bluff, "OK,
Bubba how about Tom Cruise?"

"Sure, yes, Tom and I are old friends, and I can prove
it. " So Bubba and his boss fly out to Hollywood and knock
on Tom Cruise's door, and sure enough, Tom Cruise, shouts,
"Bubba! Great to see you! You and your friend come right
in and join me for lunch! "

Although impressed, Bubba's boss is still skeptical. After
they leave Cruise's house, he tells Bubba that he thinks
Bubba's knowing Cruise was just lucky.

"No, no, just name anyone else," Bubba says.

"President Clinton," his boss quickly retorts.

"Yes," Bubba says, "I know him, let's fly out to Washington."

And off they go. At the White House, Clinton spots Bubba
on the tour and motions him and his boss over, saying,
"Bubba, what a surprise, I was just on my way to a meeting,
but you and your friend come on in and let's have a cup of
coffee first and catch up." Well, the boss is very shaken
by now, but still not totally convinced.

After they leave the White house grounds, he expresses his
doubts to Bubba, who again implores him to name anyone else.

"The Pope," his boss replies. "Sure!" says Bubba.

"My folks are from Poland, and I've known the Pope a long
time."

So off they fly to Rome. Bubba and his boss are assembled
with the masses in Vatican Square when Bubba says, "This
will never work. I can't catch the Pope's eye among all these
people. Tell you what, I know all the guards so let me just
go upstairs and I'll come out on the balcony with the Pope."
And he disappears into the crowd headed toward the Vatican.
Sure enough, half an hour later Bubba emerges with the Pope
on the balcony. But by the time Bubba returns, he finds that
his boss has had a heart attack and is surrounded by paramedics.

Working his way to his boss' side, Bubba asks him, "What happened?"
His boss looks up and says, "I was doing fine until you
and the Pope came out on the balcony and the man next to me
said, "Who's that on the balcony with Bubba?"

The Obligatory Question (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4976421)

How many of these can i store in my Form factor! [goatse.cx]

1.8 inch removable hd's have existed for years (5, Insightful)

phr2 (545169) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976422)

They're called PCMCIA drives and the older ones needed a type III slot. Toshiba makes a 5 GB one that fits in a type II slot now, and they make 1.8" embedded drives up to 20 GB that could fit in a type III slot except that their whole production is going to devices like iPod's. I hope they'll do a PCMCIA version soon.

This PCWorld thing is about a drive in some weird bigger enclosure which seems pointless. They should just make higher capacity PCMCIA drives.

Re:1.8 inch removable hd's have existed for years (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4976729)

I got a nice 1 gig ibm gigadrive from my digital camera. I can slap it into the pcmcia card that comes with it or I can just stick it into any compact flash reader.... It costs around $300 or so.

while it's a great "pcmcia drive", I cant see how anyone would compare it (or even a comprable drive at 5 gigs) to something that holds 80 gigs and will cost under $100. furthermore I cant stick a pcmcia card into my desktop now can I?

On a seperate note, someone here already commented about how nice it would be to use this for a cheap raid. This is a bit far-fetched, but it would be quite snazzy if someone could take 5 of these puppies, stick them into an enclosure the size and shape of a standard internal hard drive and just give the enclosure a standard ide connection (as long as I'm doing wishful thinking why not scsi).... basically a nice raid in a single drive bay.

Re:1.8 inch removable hd's have existed for years (1)

rapidweather (567364) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977195)

I had one of the Toshiba drives, back when they were 340 MB, but did not have enough slots for everything. It came down to a choice between the modem or the PCMCIA HDD. I would want one of the 80 GB drives mentioned in the story, especially if they were $80.00. Right now on this PC, I have two drives, one 2 GB, one 540 MB, and run RHL 6.1 on the small one, and RHL 7.1/Win98 on the big drive, which is primary master, with lilo. I use a boot disk to get into the RHL 6.1 drive. Point is, I, (and a lot of others) want and can use, a big drive. For budget-minded PC'ers like myself, it comes down to getting more RAM, or getting more HDD space. The Linux drives move from PC to PC more easily, IMHO than Win98 drives, unless the hardware is identical. I can move a Linux drive from master to slave by just editing /etc/fstab (use tomsrtbt), and I'm good to go! (This drive I'm on right now is an example). So, a removable drive seems attractive to me.

are they delicate? (3, Insightful)

hfastedge (542013) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976428)

just how delicate would these be....it still means nothing if I have to treat it like a baby. Id rather have tape disk still, which is probably way more shock resistant. True, this harddrive is selfcontained.

Do i think the benefits of portability outweigh the fact that its still just a harddrive? No.

Im all for solid state.

Re:are they delicate? (1, Informative)

cpthowdy (609034) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976482)

From their site: Shockproof: More than 900G (when not running) Note that this is for the 2.5 inch model.

Re:are they delicate? (0)

cpthowdy (609034) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976494)

But I too am all for solid state. We use PenDrive and DiskOnKey devices at work, and we absolutely love them.

Re:are they delicate? (2, Informative)

tzanger (1575) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976528)

just how delicate would these be....it still means nothing if I have to treat it like a baby. Id rather have tape disk still, which is probably way more shock resistant. True, this harddrive is selfcontained.

Actually the smaller the head assemblies get, the more rugged they tend to get, since they weigh so little that a sudden drop or shock a) can't bend the tiny arm and b) can't give the head sufficient momentum to carry it far enough to touch the surface. The arms and heads are made from the same materials as normal size drives, and the adhesives are just as strong.

That being said, the drive manufacturers know this and constantly bring the heads closer and closer to the surface. Combined with platter and head technology increases, this gives you more bits per inch at the cost of making it easier to damage.... It's all a big trade-off, but in the end the drive is more rugged, at least in the "heads touch platters" damage department.

Re:are they delicate? (1)

3263827 (192923) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977462)

Actually the IBM Microdrives are quite sensitive to environmental factors such as excessive vibration and shock. If you drop a Microdrive from waist high onto a hard floor, it'll probably be toast. That's why so many of he professional photographers who've adopted digicams shun Microdrives for flash based memory storage.

Re:are they delicate? (2)

photonic (584757) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977657)

From the website of the consortium:

Shockproof: More than 900G (when not running)

which probably means you could put such a thing in a tennisbal and have Sampras hit an ace with it...

It's a trap! Don't fall for it! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4976429)

Note how it's made largely in part from Kevlar materials? What else is made from Kevlar? Bullet proof vests!

The kind used in bullet proof vests used by the secret government's storm troopers!

The kind used in bullet proof vests worn by the secret government's storm troopers which protect their mind control equipment!

The kind used in bullet proof vests worn by the secret government's storm troopers which protect their mind control equipment as it floats 13 miles above the earth!

The kind used in bullet proof vests worn by the secret government's storm troopers which protect their mind control equipment as it floats 13 miles above the earth beaming their mind control rays into you! /me adds another layer of tinfoil to his hat.

Re:It's a trap! Don't fall for it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4977378)

The kind used in bullet proof vests worn by the secret government's storm troopers which protect their mind control equipment as it floats 13 miles above the earth!

Oh great, now they are using balloons!

(If it's not 100km from the surface, it's not in space)

in soviet russia we drive the drives instead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4976430)

in sweet soviet russia we drive the drives instead.

soviet russia rulez superior - SRRS

Plug & Program! (1)

chriton (29476) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976434)

I see a cluster of these things used like the old wirey plug & program interfaces of the Univac days.

You have a super dense rack of Transmeta Astros arranged in a Beowulf cluster with iVDR ports on the front of each blade. You make a calculation run with programming & data stored on the iVDR devices. When your done, remove them & plug in a new program. If you have these stacked on a nearby table, you could take sneakernet to amazing new bandwidth heights.

Happy New Years, Y'all!

1.8 inch? (2)

RobertTaylor (444958) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976438)

...Let me guess, they are focusing on what they do with it in the promo?

Re:1.8 inch? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4976688)

no, they are focusing on what they do with all that porno.

IBM? (4, Insightful)

Karamchand (607798) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976447)

Though I know that IBM has sold its consumer hard drive assets to Hitachi I still have to wonder why IBM is not a member of this consortium, since IBM has a very active and large research department.
Wester Digital is also "missing"...

Anyone who knows more?

Re:IBM? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4977281)

IBM is no longer in the hard drive business. This has been the subject of several /. articles in the past.

Re:IBM? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4977297)

that's what the parent post said, dumbass.

Intentional crippling? (1)

saintlupus (227599) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976463)

If this is going to be going into both computers and video equipment, I have a feeling there's going to be some powerful DRM voodoo brought into play.

Which means a lot of the potential flexibility could be lost. I'd love a hot-swappable 80 gig backup device for my file server at home, and this sounds cheap enough to be it, but I wonder what kind of wonky file system bullshit will have to be followed.

--saint

Real Soon Now (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4976468)

Great! I'll add it to my list of thing not here yet. Basing it on other technology that is not here yet is a good touch though.


Yeah, I know Seagate is shipping SATA drives but via a time machine to the year 2004 doesn't count in my book.

hmmm (-1, Troll)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976525)

This hard drive is 1.8 inch. So is CmdrTacos's penis.

This hard drive is removable. So is CmdrTaco's penis

This hard drive is coming soon.... So is CmdrTaco's penis (Hemos is stoppping by for an afternoon quicky!)

Who measured this thing? (5, Funny)

medscaper (238068) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976527)

From the Article : The 1.8-inch iVDR will be slightly thinner than a 2.5-inch iVDR disk, which measures 5.2 inches wide by 3 inches deep by a half inch high.

So who measured this thing? Hilary Rosen?

"Yes, well we saw that it had the capacity to appear to be a 2.5 inch disk if used at full capacity and fitted to your pc with a Sawzall and a ballpeen hammer."

Erm... (2, Informative)

kaphka (50736) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977293)

A 2.5 inch hard disk has a 2.5 inch diameter platter. The entire assembly is generally slightly larger than 2.5 inches; in fact, being three dimensional objects, many hard disks have width, depth, and mass as well.

Of course, even if that weren't common knowledge, the parent post still wouldn't be funny.

Why are hard drive connectors male ?? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4976533)

Why is it that hard drives & floppy drives have the male connectors (which often get bent) and cables have the female connectors?

Re:Why are hard drive connectors male ?? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4977493)

It is because female insulation Displacement Connectors (for cables) & male header combo are cheaper.
Try pricing out the reverse.

Re:Why are hard drive connectors male ?? (1)

Brymouse (563050) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977997)

Simple.

Normal .1 inch header pins are large and would be prone to shorting out. Since you have 2 (IDE) or 7 (UW SCSI) connectors on a cable, if you only have one drive they could come in contact with the case.

Now this reversed on SE/LVD SCSI drives, for some reason. I just wrap some Scotch 33 around the extra connectors just for protection. It's a small hassel for the extra preformance of SCSI.

Parallel & Serial ATA? Where is Firewire? (3, Insightful)

leandrod (17766) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976546)

An obsolete connector and other yet vapourware...

Why ignore the relevant, modern, already available standard, Firewire AKA IEEE-1394?

Re:Parallel & Serial ATA? Where is Firewire? (3, Informative)

Toraz Chryx (467835) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976672)

mainboards are shipping with Serial ATA controllers onboard (Asus A7N8X-Deluxe amongst others.)

Re:Parallel & Serial ATA? Where is Firewire? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4976755)

Yeah, I've noticed how brand name computer companies are supporting the nascent standard. I'd like a consumer-line Dell with Serial, dude.

Re:Parallel & Serial ATA? Where is Firewire? (2)

leandrod (17766) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976820)

>
mainboards are shipping with Serial ATA controllers onboard

OK, so they use something that is used on some new systems instead of supporting many already existing ones across several different architectures.

Instead they support the incredibly bad parallel port, which is almost IBM PC-compatible exclusive.

Re:Parallel & Serial ATA? Where is Firewire? (2)

JesseL (107722) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976994)

I don't think that parallel refered to the old ieee1284 type parallel port, I think "parallel and serial ata" meant "old fashioned ribbon cable type ide" and serial ata.

Re:Parallel & Serial ATA? Where is Firewire? (2)

leandrod (17766) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977827)

>
"parallel and serial ata" meant "old fashioned ribbon cable type ide" and serial ata.

You are obviously right. My fault. And yet I would prefer SCSI and Firewire, both of which give you better external and internal options, and at least SCSI better performance and quality too.

Re:Parallel & Serial ATA? Where is Firewire? (1, Informative)

October_30th (531777) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976734)

Firewire is good for external drives, whereas SATA is excellent inside the case.

More importantly, SATA does not need new drivers, Firewire does. As far as I know, you cannot use Firewire hard drives or practically any other devices in Linux.

Linux Firewire compatibility list (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4976877)

Look here http://linux1394.sourceforge.net/hcl.php for the list of Firewire devices compatible with Linux.

Re:Parallel & Serial ATA? Where is Firewire? (2, Insightful)

kangasloth (114799) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977813)

How exactly is SATA better than IEEE 1394 (firewire) for internal uses? Do you like being limited to the number of ports the motherboard manufacturer thought was necessary? 1394 allows you to chain devices, akin to scsi - much more convenient.

SATA requires a special power connector too, likely on the motherboard itself. 1394 gives you power too, in one little connector.

Linux certainly does support 1394. When our tape library failed at work, we replaced it with a bunch of firewire disks. Not only do they offer more storage at a lower cost, but they are all simultaneously online and are hell of a lot faster than tape. See linux1394.org [linux1394.org]

Do you really want to perpetuate the cruft that is ATA? You don't need drivers for SATA because it inherits many of PATA's limitations. Personally, i like hotswap (important for software raid) and i like isochonous transfer (good for cd burners as well as video streams). 1394 requires new drivers because it offers more. Linux has no problem reading 1394 drives. Windows has no problem reading 1394 drives. MacOS has no problem reading 1394 drives. How difficult would it have been to boot off of 1394? The only real obstacle is that anachonism - the PC BIOS. Replace with linuxBIOS and you'd be golden.

If Apple and Co had not decided to tax firewire, we would have had this years ago. Back in the days of the FX chipset, intel promised to include 1394 in it's motherboard chipsets, right next to USB. But no. They didn't want to be beholden to a third party, so they went off and invented the abomination that is USB2.

Re:Parallel & Serial ATA? Where is Firewire? (2)

leandrod (17766) | more than 11 years ago | (#4978496)

>
Firewire is good for external drives, whereas SATA is excellent inside the case.

Why Firewire cannot work inside the case? To me this seems yet another instance of inferior technology taking the spotlight from superior ones.

Too bad SCSI and Firewire are suffering from the herd instinct of the industry... give me them anytime over ATA. I would gladly pay the price for the quality.

>
SATA does not need new drivers, Firewire does. As far as I know, you cannot use Firewire hard drives or practically any other devices in Linux.

Why not? There are drivers. Are them too bad?

Sony Noticably Absent (4, Interesting)

spinozaq (409589) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976555)

I see that Sony is absent from the list of members. One wonders whether they will ever use an industry standard storage in any of their products *cough* Compact Flash *cough*. It's almost ironic though, because they make massivly overpriced digital camaras that take standard computer media, floppies and CD-Rs. I'll like to beat a few sony execs will some memory sticks.

Re:Sony Noticably Absent (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4977107)

memory sticks are too small to beat someone with. However since they area the size of a suppository you could insert them....

The Curse of Moving Parts (3, Funny)

handy_vandal (606174) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976686)

Moving parts: barbaric.

What I really want is a RAM drive the size of a Monolith.

Re:The Curse of Moving Parts (1)

October_30th (531777) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976761)

I agree. Not enough is being done to make computers noiseless.

There should be no fans, no hard drives or any other moving parts making noise.

Friction! Friction! (1)

handy_vandal (606174) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976806)

It's the friction, man -- the goddamned friction!

Friction is great for sex, but terrible for computing.

Re:Friction! Friction! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4976833)

Well, the day I can afford to get superconducting maglev bearings on my CPU fan which produces a 100% silent laminar flow, then maybe I won't insist on not having moving parts.

500 GB external hard drive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4976889)

I am planning to rip all my DVDs (about 60 pcs.) onto an external hard drive.

Does anyone have any experiences with this 500 GB Firewire-drive [lacie.se]?

Re:500 GB external hard drive (2)

phillymjs (234426) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976932)

I haven't used that particular drive, but I can tell you that I've never had a problem with a LaCie product.

~Philly

Re:500 GB external hard drive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4977053)

Sounds great.

Do you know if it is possible to play DVD/MPEG2 over Firewire?

I am planning to build a small MP3/OGG/DVD/PVR box into my AV rack using VIAs mini-ITX boards and CPU. It will consist of the box, infrared remote control and a concealable mini keyboard and a 8" LCD screen (at the end of a swivel arm) for the user interface. Having almost all my DVDs ripped to an external hard drive and playing them from there would really enhance the usability.

wow 1.8 inch drives?... (1)

Andy_R (114137) | more than 11 years ago | (#4976991)

imagine if you could have one without all the DRM crap, with a firewire interface, in a nice case, with an LCD, then you could make a really neat portable MP3 player.

Oh wait, Apple already did this YEARS AGO! Why the hell is slashdot calling this news?

Floppy Replacement? (3, Interesting)

LinuxInDallas (73952) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977057)

You know, every now and then I look down at my floppy drive and start to wonder if there will ever be another standard like it for removable storage. Does anyone know if the PC industry is working on that?

What prompted me to say that is here is another great little storage device that looks like it could be made to be portable and fairly rugged. Is technology changing too fast for the industry to want to standardize on a real floppy replacement?

For some reason I am not all that interested in carrying around a CD-R with me. They are nice, but 3.5" floppies seem more rugged and definitely smaller. Oh well.

Re:Floppy Replacement? (1)

Zuph (637241) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977500)

They make Mini-CD-R/CD-RWs that are smaller than a floppy, and hold ~185MB, as for the ruggedness thing, I'm sure you could get a case or something for one who's overall size would be comparable to a floppy. With most people's computers having CD Roms, and CD RW drives, this is a very viable option, Depending on your intended use.

Re:Floppy Replacement? (3, Informative)

GlassUser (190787) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977526)

It's called flash memory, usb, and mass storage class drivers. I have pretty much all my users now trained to use one of those usb keychain deals or SD/CF to USB interface. For longer term or larger storage, there's always CD. Some of them prefer to use those little 3" CDRWs like floppies.

The real purpose: Copy protection (3, Insightful)

Brett Glass (98525) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977138)

Why is this consortium coming out with a "new" storage standard when so many good ones already exist? The answer can be found at http://www.ivdr.org/consortium/consortium_e.html [ivdr.org], which the three working groups developing the standard. One is doing the hardware, and another is developing a spec for the file system -- neither of which is rocket science. But the third is focused on "security" -- in other words, DRM. This is the main purpose of the entire effort: To get the industry to standardize on a medium that's copy-protected from the get-go.

Future trouble? (3, Funny)

paiute (550198) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977190)

Old school disaster: data lost due to power surge, cracker attack, backup tape erasure, or three-alarm fire

New school disaster: data lost when tech sneezes, blowing rice-grain size multiterrabyte storage device into cracks between floor tiles

1.8 and 1.3" drives have been out before. (2, Informative)

congiman (39253) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977315)

In 1992-1996 companies were developing 1.8" technology.

Places like MiniStor, Maxtor and Aerial (SP?). Although since density was a lot less then they were only turning things out in densities of about ~130MB at the end of it.

Some of these were available with a ATA interface, some with a PCMCIA Type III, (11mm high), some were a Type IV (13+mm high). a Type III device will take the space of 2 pcmcia slots. Most standard pcmcia stuff is type II. (5mm)

HP actually had a 1.3" hard-drive out at that time, in 20MB and 40MB configurations. This was called (nicknamed?) the kitty-hawk.

All the products eventually vanished off of the market. MiniStor went bankrupt in 1995, Aerial (SP?) i think folded a bit after it, and maxtor I think just gave up on it.

From a shock perspective, things like compactflash offer a better shock resistance, but less capacity.

Oh, and the difference between 5.25 and 3.5 and 2.5 and 1.8 and 1.3 is that each disk is half the surface area of the other. So assuming the same number of platters and same density, each size drive would have half the capacity.

-- C

They are still out... (1)

denjin (115496) | more than 11 years ago | (#4978299)

You make it sound like they all disappeared...

Toshiba makes 1.8" hard drives, and they are used in Apple's iPods. Sizes from 5-20gb currently (no higher yet, I don't think.

Re:1.8 and 1.3" drives have been out before. (1)

mcgroarty (633843) | more than 11 years ago | (#4978415)

All the products eventually vanished off of the market. MiniStor went bankrupt in 1995, Aerial (SP?) i think folded a bit after it, and maxtor I think just gave up on it.

It's worth noting that these efforts haven't vanished completely. Today, you can get PCMCIA 1.8" drives [laptopharddrive.com] in 2g and larger capacities from Toshiba, and IBM has an even smaller drive, the MicroDrive [ibm.com] available at approximately one inch for one gigabyte.

My question is how reliable these drives will be when they jump in capacity so drastically.

Better be better than ORB drives. (2)

Chmarr (18662) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977453)

These things had better be more reliable than those horrible, horrible Castlewood [slashdot.org] ORB [slashdot.org] Drives [slashdot.org] That were 'all the rage' a few years ago. The disks and/or drives were immensly unreliable. Strangely more so under Linux. The company has already gone out of business (www.castlewood.com doesn't even resolve anymore).

On price... (2)

symbolic (11752) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977782)

but manufacturers hope to drop this to under $80 and well as double the capacity by next quarter."

Will the under-$80 price be before or after the mail-in rebate?

The feaure unpromoted (2)

frovingslosh (582462) | more than 11 years ago | (#4977933)

File System Specification - File system for iVDR.

The only reason for this is to make the disc braindead, to let Hollywood, the Music industry and Microsoft decide what you can and can't store on your own hard drive. And if you think you'll use it with a nice open source OS like Linux, think again.

Finally a floppy replace (1)

transami (202700) | more than 11 years ago | (#4978134)

Could this finaly mean the end of floppies? please please. i hope every new prebuilt computer comes with one of these.

Thanks but no thanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4978393)

Let's see: I should pay extra for a removable hard drive that deliberately cripples my access? If you want to attract my patronage, offer me a disk drive that doesn't have a lame copy protection scheme and that offers a per image cost low enough to be viable for use as backup. But send this turkey back to the barnyard.
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