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316 comments

FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979572)

Suck it trebec.

FP! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979574)

Imagine a beowulf of the... uh..

YOU FAIL IT! (-1)

Failure Guy (627040) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979682)

A beowulf cluster of what? FAILURES? Thats what you are, a FAILURE! This is not the first post, not by a long shot.

YOU FAIL IT!

Imagine... (3, Funny)

fraudrogic (562826) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979577)

a Beowulf cluster....oh.

Re:Imagine... (3, Funny)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979621)

I can imagine clusters of Tolkien geeks waiting in line outside of bookstores decked out in chain mail and chanting in old english.

Re:Imagine... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979665)

wtf, how come the Anonymous coward post that was exactly the same as this didnt get a Funny +3 mod?

Slashdot discriminates against Anonymous Cowards!!!

Re:Imagine... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979704)

Because AC's suck. Er, wait a second here...

In Tolkien's Middle Earth.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979670)

...bear or wulf clusterfucks YOU!

Re:Imagine... (1, Redundant)

robbyjo (315601) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979675)

a Beowulf cluster....oh

Why didn't you continue? It's supposed to be "Imagine a Beowulf cluster of the rin^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Oh wait! You're right! That would be a calamity... Whew!

Photo Shoot (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979579)



Photo Shoot
-----------
The photographer for a national magazine was assigned to get
photos of a great forest fire. Smoke at the scene was too
thick to get any good shots, so he frantically called his home
office to hire a plane.

"It will be waiting for you at the airport!" he was assured
by his editor.

As soon as he got to the small, rural airport, sure enough,
a plane was warming up near the runway. He jumped in with
his equipment and yelled, "Let's go! Let's go!" The pilot
swung the plane into the wind and soon they were in the air.

"Fly over the north side of the fire," said the photographer,
"and make three or four low level passes."

"Why?" asked the pilot.

"Because I'm going to take pictures! I'm a photographer, and
photographers take pictures!" said the photographer with great
exasperation and impatience.

After a long pause the pilot said, "You mean you're not the
instructor?"

Dear god... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979580)

let the comments begin!

first post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979581)

fp bitch

Imagine... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979585)

A Beowulf cluster of hobbits.

g to the oatse (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979587)

c to the izzex
what up y'all?

Great... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979592)

Tolken probably did that on purpose just to make the people translating do the work for nothing!

Any chance there is a pending copyright violation? (3, Funny)

JudgeFurious (455868) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979594)

Cause in this day and age it wouldn't even begin to surprise me.

Re:Any chance there is a pending copyright violati (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979630)

Beowulf is more than the century (well, 90 years) limit on copyright, so it wouldn't. as to the translation, it will probably be given to the Tolkien estate.

Re:Any chance there is a pending copyright violati (1)

Kipper the Llama (454021) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979690)

No, because Beowulf is way outside the 100 year statue of limitations on book copywrights.

Re:Any chance there is a pending copyright violati (1)

pyite (140350) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979797)

Yes, but the translation of a work _can_ be copyrighted, and in this case is. That's why they had to get permission from Tolkien's estate to use it. It _is_ under copyright.

Re:Any chance there is a pending copyright violati (1)

Kipper the Llama (454021) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979815)

I know that, but the way this person's comment was worded, I thought he was talking about Beowulf itself.

This, of course, is why online versions of Beowulf are old translations (well, the legal ones...).

Re:Any chance there is a pending copyright violati (3, Informative)

kaltkalt (620110) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979760)

There would be a CR violation in using Tolkien's name on his translation, except the article clearly says that the professor who found the manuscript got permission from Tolkien's estate to publish it. Thus, the "Tolkien's Beowulf" to be published next year will not be an infringement, since it was done with permission. Indeed, the story of beowulf is in the public domain, but any translation of it would be a derivative work protectible by copyright. If you spent 2 years of your life translating beowulf, I don't have the right to steal your translation and publish it just because the story you translated from is in the public domain. We all know disney steals stuff from the public domain (Brother's Grimm, etc) to base their stories on, and they get subsequent copyrights. Way it works.

RPN (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979595)

With my IP unbanned, here's another RPN example:

e^( (4+2) / 7!)

Alg: exp ( (4+2)/7!)

RPN: 4 Enter 2 + 7 ! / exp

8 keystrokes, vs 11. RPN wins!

Re:RPN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979800)

one would expect the user of RPN to know 4+2

2+2=5, 4+2=8

Re:RPN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979867)

True, but I'm trying to prove a point. Feel free to put Pi, e, avagadro's (sp) number etc in place of the simple ones.

------------------
To all TI users:

Try RPN for a day. I bet you like it.

imagine... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979598)

a ring of beowulf clusters to bind them all!

Happy Slashdot New Year. (-1, Troll)

ReluctantBadger (550830) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979601)


Hey Slashboteers!! It's almost New Year! What will you be doing?

  • Lancing my zits using the folded out paperclip which I normally use in my CD-ROM's emergency eject hole.

  • Browsing Anime fan sites looking for mistakes in character names, especially those where hyphens, apostrophes and spaces have not been used to convey correct emphasis. If I find them, I let everyone know about it.

  • Looking for comments to reply to on Slashdot, with particular importance placed on those where I can type "Bzzzt. Wrong. Use Linux. Get a degree. There's no jobs. 3: Profit!"

  • Browsing Sourceforge for a project to join in with. It should preferably be at "5, Production/Stable" so that I can jump on the bandwagon, get my name in the credits and then claim I've been there from the start.

  • Cutting pictures of women out of fashion magazines and then crumpling up the forehead section, followed up by some seriously frantic masturbation to my new "Klingon Goddess"

  • Removing the stuffing from my little sister's teddy bear so that I can stick a D-Link router inside, take a digital picture and get a link from Slashdot to my homepage.

  • Picking my nose while scanning Tom's Hardware looking for the latest equipment, and then posting to every message board possible bitching about the lack of Linux driver support and closed APIs.

  • Searching eBay for more tentacle rape hentai to add to my watchlist.

  • Going over plans for Taco's Jubei cabinet, and then realising that it was all just a front for a secret wank room that could be used while Fent was in the house.

  • Replying to Junis' latest e-mail about Baywatch re-runs and the compression factor on DivX 5.02

  • Helping CowboyNeal remove the "Pepsi Big Gulp" bottle from his ass.

Karma Whore 2003 (0, Redundant)

Znonymous Coward (615009) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979603)

Incase it gets /.ed.

New Tolkien book discovered
December 30, 2002

A YELLOWING manuscript by J.R.R.Tolkien discovered in an Oxford library could become one of the publishing sensations of 2003.

The 2000 handwritten pages include Tolkien's translation and appraisal of Beowulf, the epic 8th century Anglo-Saxon poem of bravery, friendship and monster-slaying that is thought to have inspired The Lord of the Rings.

He borrowed from early English verse to concoct the imaginary language spoken by Arwen, played by Liv Tyler, and other elves in the second film made from the Rings books, The Two Towers.

A US academic, Michael Drout, found the Tolkien material by accident in a box of papers at the Bodleian Library in Oxford.

An assistant professor of English at Wheaton College in Norton, Massachusetts, Dr Drout was researching Anglo- Saxon scholarship at the Bodleian, and asked to see a copy of a lecture on Beowulf given by Tolkien in 1936.

It was brought to him in a reading room in a large box. Professor Drout, who reads Anglo-Saxon prose to his two-year-old daughter at bedtime, said: "I was sitting there going through the transcripts when I saw these four bound volumes at the bottom of the box.

"I started looking through, and realised I had found an entire book of material that had never seen the light of day. As I turned the page, there was Tolkien's fingerprint in a smudge of ink."

After obtaining permission from the Tolkien estate, Professor Drout published Beowulf and the Critics, a version of Tolkien's 1936 lecture, in the US earlier this month.

Even more exciting will be Tolkien's translation of the poem and his line-by-line interpretation of its meaning, which will be published next summer.

Tolkien's name on the cover is likely to make the translation a bestseller.

Professor Drout says Tolkien found inspiration for many of his storylines and characters in Beowulf. The Anglo-Saxon hero's friendship with Wiglaf is mirrored in the relationship between Frodo and Sam in The Lord of the Rings.

Elves, orcs and ents, the latter a type of giant that becomes a walking and talking tree in Tolkien's work, are all mentioned in Beowulf.

Merlin Unwin, son of Tolkien's original publisher, said: "Beowulf is a wonderful story, and if you put Tolkien's name to it, it would probably be a great commercial success."

In Case of Slashdotting, pull alarm (full text) (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979604)

New Tolkien book discovered
December 30, 2002

A YELLOWING manuscript by J.R.R.Tolkien discovered in an Oxford library could become one of the publishing sensations of 2003.

The 2000 handwritten pages include Tolkien's translation and appraisal of Beowulf, the epic 8th century Anglo-Saxon poem of bravery, friendship and monster-slaying that is thought to have inspired The Lord of the Rings.

He borrowed from early English verse to concoct the imaginary language spoken by Arwen, played by Liv Tyler, and other elves in the second film made from the Rings books, The Two Towers.

A US academic, Michael Drout, found the Tolkien material by accident in a box of papers at the Bodleian Library in Oxford.

An assistant professor of English at Wheaton College in Norton, Massachusetts, Dr Drout was researching Anglo- Saxon scholarship at the Bodleian, and asked to see a copy of a lecture on Beowulf given by Tolkien in 1936.

It was brought to him in a reading room in a large box. Professor Drout, who reads Anglo-Saxon prose to his two-year-old daughter at bedtime, said: "I was sitting there going through the transcripts when I saw these four bound volumes at the bottom of the box.

"I started looking through, and realised I had found an entire book of material that had never seen the light of day. As I turned the page, there was Tolkien's fingerprint in a smudge of ink."

After obtaining permission from the Tolkien estate, Professor Drout published Beowulf and the Critics, a version of Tolkien's 1936 lecture, in the US earlier this month.

Even more exciting will be Tolkien's translation of the poem and his line-by-line interpretation of its meaning, which will be published next summer.

Tolkien's name on the cover is likely to make the translation a bestseller.

Professor Drout says Tolkien found inspiration for many of his storylines and characters in Beowulf. The Anglo-Saxon hero's friendship with Wiglaf is mirrored in the relationship between Frodo and Sam in The Lord of the Rings.

Elves, orcs and ents, the latter a type of giant that becomes a walking and talking tree in Tolkien's work, are all mentioned in Beowulf.

Merlin Unwin, son of Tolkien's original publisher, said: "Beowulf is a wonderful story, and if you put Tolkien's name to it, it would probably be a great commercial success."

In Case the parent post get Slashdotted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979747)

New Tolkien book discovered
December 30, 2002

A YELLOWING manuscript by J.R.R.Tolkien discovered in an Oxford library could become one of the publishing sensations of 2003.

The 2000 handwritten pages include Tolkien's translation and appraisal of Beowulf, the epic 8th century Anglo-Saxon poem of bravery, friendship and monster-slaying that is thought to have inspired The Lord of the Rings.

He borrowed from early English verse to concoct the imaginary language spoken by Arwen, played by Liv Tyler, and other elves in the second film made from the Rings books, The Two Towers.

A US academic, Michael Drout, found the Tolkien material by accident in a box of papers at the Bodleian Library in Oxford.

An assistant professor of English at Wheaton College in Norton, Massachusetts, Dr Drout was researching Anglo- Saxon scholarship at the Bodleian, and asked to see a copy of a lecture on Beowulf given by Tolkien in 1936.

It was brought to him in a reading room in a large box. Professor Drout, who reads Anglo-Saxon prose to his two-year-old daughter at bedtime, said: "I was sitting there going through the transcripts when I saw these four bound volumes at the bottom of the box.

"I started looking through, and realised I had found an entire book of material that had never seen the light of day. As I turned the page, there was Tolkien's fingerprint in a smudge of ink."

After obtaining permission from the Tolkien estate, Professor Drout published Beowulf and the Critics, a version of Tolkien's 1936 lecture, in the US earlier this month.

Even more exciting will be Tolkien's translation of the poem and his line-by-line interpretation of its meaning, which will be published next summer.

Tolkien's name on the cover is likely to make the translation a bestseller.

Professor Drout says Tolkien found inspiration for many of his storylines and characters in Beowulf. The Anglo-Saxon hero's friendship with Wiglaf is mirrored in the relationship between Frodo and Sam in The Lord of the Rings.

Elves, orcs and ents, the latter a type of giant that becomes a walking and talking tree in Tolkien's work, are all mentioned in Beowulf.

Merlin Unwin, son of Tolkien's original publisher, said: "Beowulf is a wonderful story, and if you put Tolkien's name to it, it would probably be a great commercial success."

In Case the parent post get Slashdotted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979796)

Seriously, when will the karma whoring end?

Re:In Case the parent post get Slashdotted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979889)

it's not karma whoring if the poster is AC.
you should know that, AC.

In case the 2nd-level post gets /.ed. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979855)

New Tolkien book discovered
December 30, 2002

A YELLOWING manuscript by J.R.R.Tolkien discovered in an Oxford library could become one of the publishing sensations of 2003.

The 2000 handwritten pages include Tolkien's translation and appraisal of Beowulf, the epic 8th century Anglo-Saxon poem of bravery, friendship and monster-slaying that is thought to have inspired The Lord of the Rings.

He borrowed from early English verse to concoct the imaginary language spoken by Arwen, played by Liv Tyler, and other elves in the second film made from the Rings books, The Two Towers.

A US academic, Michael Drout, found the Tolkien material by accident in a box of papers at the Bodleian Library in Oxford.

An assistant professor of English at Wheaton College in Norton, Massachusetts, Dr Drout was researching Anglo- Saxon scholarship at the Bodleian, and asked to see a copy of a lecture on Beowulf given by Tolkien in 1936.

It was brought to him in a reading room in a large box. Professor Drout, who reads Anglo-Saxon prose to his two-year-old daughter at bedtime, said: "I was sitting there going through the transcripts when I saw these four bound volumes at the bottom of the box.

"I started looking through, and realised I had found an entire book of material that had never seen the light of day. As I turned the page, there was Tolkien's fingerprint in a smudge of ink."

After obtaining permission from the Tolkien estate, Professor Drout published Beowulf and the Critics, a version of Tolkien's 1936 lecture, in the US earlier this month.

Even more exciting will be Tolkien's translation of the poem and his line-by-line interpretation of its meaning, which will be published next summer.

Tolkien's name on the cover is likely to make the translation a bestseller.

Professor Drout says Tolkien found inspiration for many of his storylines and characters in Beowulf. The Anglo-Saxon hero's friendship with Wiglaf is mirrored in the relationship between Frodo and Sam in The Lord of the Rings.

Elves, orcs and ents, the latter a type of giant that becomes a walking and talking tree in Tolkien's work, are all mentioned in Beowulf.

Merlin Unwin, son of Tolkien's original publisher, said: "Beowulf is a wonderful story, and if you put Tolkien's name to it, it would probably be a great commercial success."

In case pigs fly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979900)

New Tolkien book discovered
December 30, 2002

A YELLOWING manuscript by J.R.R.Tolkien discovered in an Oxford library could become one of the publishing sensations of 2003.

The 2000 handwritten pages include Tolkien's translation and appraisal of Beowulf, the epic 8th century Anglo-Saxon poem of bravery, friendship and monster-slaying that is thought to have inspired The Lord of the Rings.

He borrowed from early English verse to concoct the imaginary language spoken by Arwen, played by Liv Tyler, and other elves in the second film made from the Rings books, The Two Towers.

A US academic, Michael Drout, found the Tolkien material by accident in a box of papers at the Bodleian Library in Oxford.

An assistant professor of English at Wheaton College in Norton, Massachusetts, Dr Drout was researching Anglo- Saxon scholarship at the Bodleian, and asked to see a copy of a lecture on Beowulf given by Tolkien in 1936.

It was brought to him in a reading room in a large box. Professor Drout, who reads Anglo-Saxon prose to his two-year-old daughter at bedtime, said: "I was sitting there going through the transcripts when I saw these four bound volumes at the bottom of the box.

"I started looking through, and realised I had found an entire book of material that had never seen the light of day. As I turned the page, there was Tolkien's fingerprint in a smudge of ink."

After obtaining permission from the Tolkien estate, Professor Drout published Beowulf and the Critics, a version of Tolkien's 1936 lecture, in the US earlier this month.

Even more exciting will be Tolkien's translation of the poem and his line-by-line interpretation of its meaning, which will be published next summer.

Tolkien's name on the cover is likely to make the translation a bestseller.

Professor Drout says Tolkien found inspiration for many of his storylines and characters in Beowulf. The Anglo-Saxon hero's friendship with Wiglaf is mirrored in the relationship between Frodo and Sam in The Lord of the Rings.

Elves, orcs and ents, the latter a type of giant that becomes a walking and talking tree in Tolkien's work, are all mentioned in Beowulf.

Merlin Unwin, son of Tolkien's original publisher, said: "Beowulf is a wonderful story, and if you put Tolkien's name to it, it would probably be a great commercial success."

sir gawain (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979608)

He also did a translation of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight which (in the copy I have) is bundled with translations of both Perl and Sir Orfeo. IMHO his translation of Sir Gawain is much better than the one we were forced to read in my high school english class. Would have been cool to have had a copy of his Beowulf translation to compare to the one we had.

I dont know of any online shops that carry the book, but the ISBN number is 0-345-27760-0 if you want to look for it or special order.

Re:sir gawain (2)

drdink (77) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979723)

Re:sir gawain (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979834)

Yup, thats it. Very cool. I'm having trouble searching any sites since my service provider (directtv dsl) decided to go out of business.

Great... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979609)

just in time for the book to be released as an EBOOK with DRM!!!

This will be a hard read... (5, Interesting)

pyman (610707) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979611)

Even more exciting will be Tolkien's translation of the poem and his line-by-line interpretation of its meaning, which will be published next summer.

I really like Tolkien, but I had to really push myself to get through the Silmarillion... Somehow a line by line explanation strikes me as being much less than 'exciting'!

Re:This will be a hard read... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979637)

Keep in mind that Silmarillion was "edited" by his son, not a direct work by the man himself. Basically pasted together out of notes and scraps of recorded "history." His writing is rather heavy, yes, but do a little research before making comments such as that.

Re:This will be a hard read... (1)

nhaines (622289) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979712)

Not only that, but Tolkien was a linguist. That was his job, and that was his life--The Silmarillion and later The Lord of the Rings grew out of a love for language and sound that had him create his own languages, and eventually desire to create a history and people for that language.

Ever seen The History of Middle-Earth volume IV: The Lays of Beleriand? These alliterative and rhyming epic songs are absolutely enchanting and beautiful, and if there's anyone in the last century I trust to do justice to an English -> English translation of Beowulf, it's Tolkien. His line-by-line notes will probably be in a different section (i.e., not interlinear).

I just hope it's a dual-language edition. With the German I've studied, I adore looking at the similarities and differences, and with Tolkien's linguistical notes (which I've always found interesting) accompanying what is likely to be an elegant translation, I'm picking this one up as soon as I see it. I may even preorder it.

Not because it's Tolkien and I collect every book by him, but because he was one of the century's most talented linguists, and this is what he did best.

Re:This will be a hard read... (3, Interesting)

tlayne (20529) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979667)

I really like Tolkien, but I had to really push myself to get through the Silmarillion

It gets better the more times you read it. I've read The Silmarillion 4 times in the past year alone (same for The Hobbit and LOTR.) Think of The Hobbit as being written by Bilbo, LOTR by Frodo and Sam, and The Silmarillion transcribed by Bilbo from much older sources. The difference in style makes sense then.

Re:This will be a hard read... (2, Interesting)

fciron (619458) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979727)

I too pushed myself through the Silmarillion when I was in high school. Why do we subject ourselves to this stuff. Tolkien was a brilliant author and his fully conceived world is what makes his stories so compelling, but I think his translation of Beowulf will be a much greater service to both his readers and society that the Silmarillion.

Examination of folklore and legends tells us something about our society and our selves. The use of SF and fantasy to explore our real world and history rather than more fantasy would be great way to improve the nerd image among the general population.

You'll get more chicks talking about Gardner's Grendel than you will bringing up Tolkien.(This is both a joke and an true example.)

Re:This will be a hard read... (4, Informative)

TheOnlyCoolTim (264997) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979882)

The Silmarillion is hard because it was never finished. Tolkien had various stories written out to various degrees of completion and then his son combined them all into the Silmarillion. It probably would have been better as a collection of short stories.

You can't deny that some of the stories are excellent - Fingolfin vs. Morgoth or Beren and Luthien for example. In the movies Peter Jackson seems to be using the parallels between Beren/Luthien and Aragorn/Arwen to flesh out the whole romance storyline that was barely present in the books.

Even discounting the value of the Silmarillion itself, after reading the Silmarillion you will get much more from the Lord of The Rings.

Tim

That's funny (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979612)

The two books I brought with me on Christmas vacation are The Lord of the Rings, and the Seamus Heaney Beowulf translation (which is quite good).

Movie Studios Cook this up? (3, Funny)

reezle (239894) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979614)

I suppose it's an easy way to squeeze another film out of the 'ring' marketing machines... Stamp Tolkien's name to a manuscript, shove it in the bottom of a box, and have a dusty librarian dig it up for you. Instant next-year's-script..

Wonder how many aspiring writers will be picking up on this new publication method in the coming years?

Re:Movie Studios Cook this up? (3, Interesting)

Random Data (538955) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979636)

I suppose it's an easy way to squeeze another film out of the 'ring' marketing machines

Why do that when there are plenty of Tolkien authored works yet to be filmed - the Hobbit hasn't been done, at least not on the scale of LotR, some stories from the Silmarillion could be filmed if you were desperate, and there are umpteen "Unfinished Tales".

It's of more interest as an example of his inspiration, and it'd be interesting to see Tolkien's take on Beowulf. It's not going to be a massive seller to the general public, who probably have enough trouble getting through LotR, but for those who are interested it'll definitely be worth a look.

Don't assume that everything is marketing. While it's often the case, believing it of everything will make you as shallow as the advertisers who push that idea.

Re:Movie Studios Cook this up? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979769)

wtf?
who modereated that as offtopic? what an idiot...

Well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979615)

PerhapsTolken found Beowulf inspirational, but the rest of us found it annoying. And regretted taking that classic lit course.

Re:Well... (1)

nhaines (622289) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979722)

That's because it was pushed on you and your translations probably sucked. Tolkien could read the original work and found it inspirational. I can't wait to see how he managed to render it into modern English.

Obviously a Critical Author ... (4, Informative)

SuperDuG (134989) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979618)

Obviously Tolkien was very critical of his own works as this one has been kept in a box for so long. The epic Beowulf has been depicted in so many ways in the past that it is actually quite amazing to see it translated the ways it has been. The Thirteenth Warrior was by far the coolest interpretation to date, I don't care if they did leave out nearly half the tale.

It's a timeless tale and Tolkein is a great author, this won't reach the best seller list because of the name of the author, but because I'm sure it will be great. Such a shame that it has been hidden for so long.

Re:Obviously a Critical Author ... (2, Informative)

FosterSJC (466265) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979661)

"The Thirteenth Warrior was by far the coolest interpretation to date, I don't care if they did leave out nearly half the tale."

Sigh. I don't mean to be a troll here, but it is surely not coincidence that you chose a film addaptation of this great work as "the coolest interpretation." ::Sarcasm:: Yes I agree, Antonio Banderas brought clout and intelligence to this film opus. ::Sarcasm:: Not. Of all the interesting 'interpretations' and 'translations' out there of late, you choose the one that is as much based on Beowulf as it is on Crichton's Eaters of the Dead. While I am intrigued to see what Tolkien has to say on this seminal work, I would recommend to those discerning reads who are capable of reading and not just moviegoing to take a gander at Seamus Heaney's new translation. It is a side-by-side metered rendering (of the whole work) by an accomplished poet. Take my advice, and ditch the 13th Warrior. Sorry for the rant, also.

Re:Obviously a Critical Author ... (2)

SuperDuG (134989) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979792)

Okay usually I don't reply to my post replies because usually they're AC's, but when someone has the respect to not hide behind the AC post I will usually take the time to reply to them.

Eaters of the Dead was a novel which was influenced by Beowulf and by canabilistic tribes of early men which have been documented. Like most of Crichton's works it is science fiction, but not so unbelievable because of the scientific-proof based background presented in the books.

Further there are MANY similarities to the epic and the adaptation, hell Crighton even notes that it's an interpretation in his book. I liked watching the video because it showed one thing that was true in the Epic, the Movie, and the Book. That there can be a time when a man can face fear head on and show no weakness to overcome it. It's a David and Goliath tale where the nobodty becomes a somebody.

What I think is "cool" or "enjoyable" as a movie should truly be up to me. I myself did a college project in which the epic was translated on to film encorperating organized crime (bringing a modern day feel) and light sabers (bringing a joking feel as well). Besides the horrible acting and bad script the soundtrack was quite a hit in the English class.

If you're telling me that art can be appealing to everyone, then you're sorely mistaken. I would say that I would enjoy Heaney's translation as much as you have enjoyed the thirteenth warrior. Technically unless you can read hella old english, all forms of the poem/epic have been translations.

Take my advice, accept that many people enjoy many different thigs and not everyone is going to agree with you, I have.

Re:Obviously a Critical Author ... (1)

murky.waters (596967) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979897)

What I think is "cool" or "enjoyable" as a movie should truly be up to me.

It is - we just think that it sucks.

SNOB (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979807)

Eaters of the Dead was great. The movie was excellent.
And the phrase is "discerning readers" not "discerning reads."

Re:Obviously a Critical Author ... (1)

tetro (545711) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979697)

The Thirteenth Warrior was based on Eaters of the Dead by Crichton.

Re:Obviously a Critical Author ... (2)

SuperDuG (134989) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979802)

Which was based off of the Epic Beowulf, hence it's a translation/interpretation, hence in reference I am still right and you come out looking like a schmuck.

Great... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979622)

this wasn't released until the age where this dominates:

MZ ÿÿ @ Í!LÍ!This program cannot be run in DOS mode.

$ JÉÊÜÉÊÜÉÊÜuÕÆÜÉÊÜÕÄÜ
ÉÊÜaÖÀÜ
ÉÊÜaÖÁÜ
É ÊÜaÖÎÜ
ÉÊÜÉÊÜ&ÉÊÜXÖÙÜÉÊÜlÖÙÜ ÉÊÜÉËÜÈÊÜZêûÜÉÊÜÉÏÌÜÉÊÜñéÎÜÉÊÜRichÉÊÜ PE L qú= à # d 6 fY êa Ð Ïv .......

This reminds me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979671)

of the old days where I would try to provoke silent carriers by uploading COMMAND.COM to it in raw mode.

I'll wait for... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979628)

the movie version. Oh, nevermind, I don'thave that much time!

Elves, Orcs, and Ents in Beowulf? (3, Interesting)

Rubel (121009) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979632)

Hmmm, I must have read a severely truncated version in high school, because I only remember three supernatural creatures in "Beowulf" -- Grendel, Grendel's mom, and the Dragon.

Speaking of Grendel, there's a great novel by the same name written by John Gardner.

Back on topic, Gardner wrote an interesting article [nytimes.com] on Tolkien and his world.

Re:Elves, Orcs, and Ents in Beowulf? (2, Informative)

Vann_v2 (213760) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979718)

I had to find this online, but here you go:
So lived the clansmen in cheer and revel

a winsome life, till one began
to fashion evils, that field of hell.
Grendel this monster grim was called,
march-riever mighty, in moorland living,
in fen and fastness; fief of the giants
the hapless wight a while had kept
since the Creator his exile doomed.
On kin of Cain was the killing avenged
by sovran God for slaughtered Abel.
Ill fared his feud, and far was he driven,
for the slaughter's sake, from sight of men.
Of Cain awoke all that woful breed,
Etins and elves and evil-spirits,
as well as the giants
that warred with God
weary while: but their wage was paid them!


It's in the first "book" of Beowulf, around line 110-115.

Re:Elves, Orcs, and Ents in Beowulf? (1)

Rubel (121009) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979833)

cool. I wonder what the original listeners thought those creatures were? The evolution of the elf through the ages...

I should get modded down for this (1)

Lord_Slepnir (585350) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979638)

The translation describes how to make a beowolf cluster of rings. Or hobbits if rings can't be gotten

Why isn't there a "-1 No. Just no." rating? (3, Funny)

adb (31105) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979650)

Know text.

Re:Why isn't there a "-1 No. Just no." rating? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979850)

Now imagine a beowulf cluster of those ratings...

The Beowulf Cluster of the Rings: (2)

SHEENmaster (581283) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979687)

When every other possible usage of Lord of the Rings movie series.

In all seriousness, I would love to see a (commedy) movie made out of this [yimg.com]. image.

Re:I should get modded down for this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979720)

You bore me, mortal.

It's safe to say... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979643)

"I started looking through, and realised I had found an entire book of material that had never seen the light of day. As I turned the page, there was Tolkien's fingerprint in a smudge of ink."

If you have Tolkien's fingerprint memorized, it's safe to say you REALLY NEED A NEW HOBBY.

I feel sorry for this guy's daughter.

You forgot to mention... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979648)

His other book that has just been discovered...

It's called Mosix!

Cashing in... (3, Interesting)

Xpilot (117961) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979653)

Looks like publishers are really looking forward to cashing in on the Tolkien-hype we've been getting nowadays.

I am looking forward to reading this though. Besides the handwriting, is the fingerprint the only proof that this was written by Tolkien? Does his son know about this?

Re:Cashing in... (1)

JosefK (21477) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979827)

IIRC, Tolkien was known to have been working at various times on his own translation of Beowulf (I believe he may have actually been asked to do so for a publisher), though I doubt anyone knew how far along he ever got, given his propensity for putting things aside or starting from scratch (viz. the *many* versions of the stories in the Silmarillion published in the History of Middle-earth series). He sold off or gave away many of his manuscripts and papers to various libraries and universities at different points in his life, so it's not surprising that something like a near-complete translation would be sitting around undiscovered for so long.

In other news (1, Troll)

SHEENmaster (581283) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979658)

The United States passed a law extending international copyright law. Tolkein's upcoming book is the equivalent of 400 copyright violations due to its length.

IF YOU SUPPORT THIS COPYRIGHT LAW VIOLATOR; YOU ARE A TERRORIST!

Perspective... (5, Insightful)

este (600616) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979664)

I found several times throughout the article that references were made to the great "commercial possiblilities" of this find. I think, however, that the real value more lies among Tolkien's fans, who not only have been able to learn of his world's own creation but now also of it's derivation. The depth and complexity of Tolkien's worlds have always inspried wonder, as have the archetypal traits it shares with other cultural folklore, and as such makes it almost more "believeable", drawing the reader in and giving them ideas they can relate to so they can be drawn. This manuscript one one of many works that document Tolkein's intensive research and study of early Anglo-saxon folklore, which gave so much to his own writings. Yes, undoubtedly if it is published and marketed well, it will sell strongly, but it's own existence has more symbloic value than anything.

Tolkien Resources... (2)

Quaoar (614366) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979668)

Could anyone give me a good Internet site that covers his lesser-known works?

it's still beowulf... (2, Insightful)

kid_icarus75 (579846) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979680)

unless he took a dramatic twist of the text, you're still forced reading the same epic that you were forced to read in highschool... if you are looking for a good twist on the topic, read john gardner's grendel.

Re:it's still beowulf... (5, Interesting)

TheOnlyCoolTim (264997) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979902)

A translation can make a huge difference. For example, I was reading Aristophanes' "The Clouds", and I was reading a good translation. It was hilarious - like an Ancient Greek episode of the Simpsons (a good episode). My friend, who had a crappy translation, hated it and found it humorless. For example, when the lizard shits in Socrates' face, my book says "a lizard shitted on his face!", which is funny, whereas my friend's book says something like "a lizard befouled upon him.", which isn't.

Tim

Tolkien/Middle English (4, Interesting)

jpetts (208163) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979681)

This will be wonderful. He had already translated Pearl and Sir Orfeo, two Middle English pieces before he died, plus Sir Gawain and The Green Knight. These are very different pieces though, much more lyrical and romantic. Perhaps the best known translation he did which will compare with this is of a fragment (about 100 lines) of an Anglo Saxon piece called "The Death of Beorthelm". He wrote a sequel, The Homecoming of Beortnoth Beorthelms' Son, as well.

I am interested to see how his Beowulf will compare with Seamus Heaney's truly masterful work, published a couple of years ago. However, given that Heaney is a poet, and Tolkien was a philologist, I sha'n't be surprised if they differ widely...

Re:Tolkien/Middle English (1)

Kipper the Llama (454021) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979702)

I look forward to it as well, I love Beowulf, and hopefully this translation will best the one I read in English, and the Heaney.

'Death is better for every man than life with shame.'
-Beowulf

Re:Tolkien/Middle English (3, Interesting)

Zeinfeld (263942) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979777)

I am interested to see how his Beowulf will compare with Seamus Heaney's truly masterful work, published a couple of years ago.

Unfortunately Heaney's translation got involved with a fixup by the booker prize committee which put off a lot of people.

The book of the year came down to a choice between Heaney's Beowulf and Harry Potter. The ossified farts of the Booker committee gave the Prize to Heaney saying 'Children's books come and go, Beowulf is forever'.

The idiocy of this remark amazed me. While I have no doubt that students will be having Gilgamesh and Beowulf rammed down their craw in a thousand years time I very much doubt the Heaney translation will be much remembered (except perhaps by a snarky comment in a preface to Potter!). On the other hand we can be pretty certain that Alice in Wonderland and probably even Lord of the Rings will still be arround. And if any book published that year is still in print in 100 years time I'll bet Harry potter is as well.

What it comes down to is the same set of sniffy attitudes that denigrated Tolkein's work. The other Oxford Dons were not pleased when an obscure professor of philology made the publishing sensation of the decade rather than any of the established names they had been betting on. They certainly did not like the idea that tales of elves etc. was more popular than their 'high litterature'.

Beowulf is famous for one reason alone, it is the earliest that survived. Now that in itself is no mean feat since a tale that survives as an oral tradition has to be worth telling. But when it comes down to it Homer, Gilgamesh and Beowulf are more important for the way in which they have affected our culture than in themselves. For that reason alone I would rate Tolkein's translation higher since at the end of the day Tolkein did something interesting with Beowulf. Heaney merely translated it.

Besides Heaney is exactly the type of high litterature type that the Oxford Dons think we should like instead of Tolkein, if only we understood what high art is.

Re:Tolkien/Middle English (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979858)

Not to be a real prick about this, but Beowulf is not "the earliest that survived". That is generally ascribed to the Northumbrian dialect version of Caedmon's Hymn. Not sure of the provenance for the West Saxon version of that same poem.

Fact is, a date for Beowulf hasn't been determined with any certitude. Two things are operative here: whether it was oral formulaic (likely), and whether the oral formulaic version was anywhere near the mss (fear not gentle /.ers, mss stands for manuscript studies, not "MS Sucks")

Way too much Christian allegory to make this version of the tale extremely old. Let us not forget that Grendel's mother is the offspring of an angel and a woman--this is hardly the sort of thing that would have cropped up in pre-christian Geatland.

So that leaves us with the the oral formulaic stuff upon which the mss in the Cotton library was based. And, well, the Anglo-Saxon riddles are likely way way older.

I'll bet Chrispher Tolkien is beside himself ... (2, Interesting)

JoeGee (85189) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979701)

Sometimes I think he'd dig up his father's bones, wire them up on puppet strings, and tour them around the world if it could make him more money. Unlike the posthumous "Lost Tales" this find is by a creditable third party, attributable in its entirety to Daddy T, and the royalties shall no doubt flow as thick as orc blood at Helm's Deep. Christopher dreams happy dreams tonight.

Isn't That Inefficient? (3, Funny)

Myriad (89793) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979710)

Hmmm, I was under the impression that a Tolkein Ring based Beowulf custer wasn't the most efficient way of doing this...

(duck) :)

For all who were forced... (1)

xaxat (309420) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979714)

to read a bad translation of any epic poem in High School, I highly reommend giving it another try. Tolkein translation or not. Seamus Heany's translation of Beowulf is a great read and more than "just another translation". Other new translations of epic poems that I would recommend.The Iliad and Odyssey by Robert Fagles and Dante's Inferno by Pinsky. None of them are easy reads, but all are really rewarding.

Tolkein...lost? (1)

stmintz (546304) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979739)

How does one lose something like this? Maybe it wasn't the most exciting thing at the time but someone must have had an interest in it.

Old Engrish! (1)

Kipper the Llama (454021) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979783)

The epic will then be translated into Old Engrish in anticipation of the anime version.

"Nothing can claim kinship rights to change for man of thought right!"

Inevitable (2)

limekiller4 (451497) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979784)

Image a beowulf of these connected by Tolkien-ring with DRM and I'm not going to buy one until it supports the Ogg Vorbis format and ...oh, I'll just STFU now...

Seamus Heaney (3, Interesting)

bgfay (5362) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979786)

If anyone is interested in reading _Beowulf_, they should get the Seamus Heaney translation. It's difficult to imagine anything better than this. I read the story in high school and again in both college and graduate school but it wasn't until I read the Heaney translation that I understood what all the fuss was about. It's an incredible book and it seems to have taken the ear of a poet to get the translation right.

And if you get a chance to hear someone who can read the original, go to it. Just gorgeous stuff even if it's pretty tough to follow.

Brin Takes Grendel's Side (3, Funny)

Baldrson (78598) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979809)

I can hardly wait to see the Salon article by Hugo Award Winner David Brin(TM) telling us how Grendel [bulfinch.org] is the good guy saving the dainty little things of civilization from barbaric heathens like Beowulf.

tolkien inspirations (5, Insightful)

trance9 (10504) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979824)


First and foremost I think that Tokien was inspired by the war he fought in, WW1: Huge battles and complex alliances between murky powers in which little English folk from the countryside get caught up, don't fully understand, and yet trust that somehow they are acting for the better--meanwhile massive slaughter, marshes full of dead people, and so on.

On the literary side, though, he does seem to have borrowed from all sorts of great legends. I'm sure Beowulf must be one, as the LOTR, etc., are quests. Tolkien clearly believes (in his stories anyway) in caste society: dividing people up into noble classes, low classes, and so on--the line of kings figures prominently in his work.

Moreover his creation mythology interestingly enough mixes the Christian mythology of Lucifer into a Norse mythology setting. You have Melkor rebelling against Eru much as Lucifer rebelled against God, and the whole Melkor/Morgoth/Sauron thing sounds remarkably like the story of Lucifer's fall from grace. And you have the Elves being kicked out of Valinor much as Christian mythology has men being kicked out of the Garden of Eden--with the twist of free choice.

And yet the whole thing is in a Norse mythological setting--with the gods living in great halls across the ocean--and you could even sail there if you were a good enough seafarer, and a range of gods who are somehow a higher caste than men, and yet somehow also their equals. (The Vala, Elves and Men all having been created by the same maker, Eru).

In a way I think much of British quest literature has been an attempt to weave the old tales of Beowulf into the fabric of Christian mythology, and I think that's exactly what Tolkien does.

Discovered, not quite. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#4979839)

The Sunday Times article regarding this conflates Prof. Drout's story of his 'coming upon' Tolkien's essay "Beowulf and the Critics" (the precursor of his British Academy lecture, "Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics"),
Drout's edition of which has just been published, with the fact that he is now working on an edition of Tolkien's Modern English
(alliterative and prose) translations of _Beowulf_. The article gets a number of other things wrong too. Not to diminish Michael Drout's
moment of personal discovery or his achievement in his new book, but the existence of "Beowulf and
the Critics" was known before he saw it: it was listed long ago in a public catalogue of the Tolkien papers at the Bodleian. It just wasn't
published. As for Tolkien's _Beowulf_ translation, this has been even better known: cited three times, for example, in the 1993 Tolkien _Descriptive Bibliography_ -- and brief portions of it have been published, e.g. in Tolkien's "Prefatory Remarks on Prose Translation
of 'Beowulf'", originally his preface to the 1940 edition of _Beowulf_ translated by John R. Clark Hall, and in Hammond and Scull, _J.R.R. Tolkien: Artist & Illustrator_ alongside two drawings by Tolkien of Grendel's Mere.

a word (5, Interesting)

Triv (181010) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979842)

...to those who now want to read Beowulf:

Don't. Listen to it instead. It was a myth, part of an oral tradition. You really don't get the same thing out of reading it.

There's a recording available of Seamus Heaney reading his translation of it here. [amazon.com]

Triv

The article is nothing but exaggerated hype (4, Informative)

Jorge Quinonez (637324) | more than 11 years ago | (#4979880)

Tolkien scholars have known about the Beow. translation and commentary for decades. This is nothing but a blatant attempt by either the publisher or the scholar to hype and market their book. It wasn't 'discovered'. It has always been in the Tolkien Collection at the Dept. of Western Manuscripts in the Bodleian Library in Oxford. And thus available to any qualified scholar. However, in all fairness, Michael Drout (the editor), may probably be the first scholar to actually have the time, motivation and energy to accomplish the task of actually getting this thing published. Also, I believe the figure of 2000 pages sounds a bit inflated, its far less than that. In my view, Tolkien's Beow. work would probably have been published by now by the Tolkien Estate if they had thought it worthwhile. But with any book selling like crazy that has Tolkien's name on it: Now is the time to do it.
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