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All-New PowerBooks, Web Browser Featured at Macworld

pudge posted more than 11 years ago | from the overall-i-say-it-is-boring dept.

Apple 1095

Apple CEO Steve Jobs once again introduced the new PowerBooks new and upgraded software to a throng of adoring fans at the annual Macworld Expo San Francisco, including a new web browser, new versions of the "iLife" applications (iPhoto, iMovie, and iDVD), and presentation software (which Steve himself has been "beta testing" at every Macworld keynote since 2002).The PowerBook has been extended in two directions, with screens up to 17" and down to 12". Both feature a new material for the casing, aluminum (anodized, not painted), with AirPort antennas in the screen. The AirPort range of the PowerBook now equals the iBook. It will no longer boot into Mac OS, only into Mac OS X.

The 17" model is 1440x900 resolution, 16:10 aspect ratio, G4/1GHz, SuperDrive, GeForce4 440 Go/64MB, and all the same ports, with the addition of line in and FireWire 800 (in addition to FireWire 400). It is less than 1" thin, and 6.8 lbs., and has fiber-optic lightning for the keyboard activated by ambient light sensors. It will be available next month for $3,300.

The 12" version is 4.6 lbs., and is smaller than the iBook in every dimension. It's 1024x768, G4/867, GeForce4 420 Go/32MB, and is AirPort-ready ($99 extra). It is $1,800 for a combo drive model, $2,000 for a SuperDrive model, and will be available in two weeks.

Both models sport the new AirPort Extreme (802.11g), which is 54Mbps, up from the 11Mbps of AirPort (802.11b). The base stations and clients are fully compatible with the old AirPort, handle 50 users, and support both wireless bridging (to extend the range by adding more stations) and can act as a USB printer server.

Jobs also introduced Safari, a new Mac OS X browser based on the KHTML rendering engine from KDE (and Apple will publish changes they've made to it). There's nothing especially great about it -- it's a web browser -- except that, unlike most other browsers, it is expected to be fast and work properly, as well as be fully integrated into Mac OS X. The web is a killer app, but pretty much all web browsers suck; Apple hopes to give us something that doesn't suck in Safari. It is a free download for the beta, starting today. This story was posted using Safari. W00p.

iPhoto 2 has been revamped, with iTunes integration (access to playlists, tracks, even searching) for slide shows; one-click enhance of photos; a retouch brush; archiving to CD/DVD; and more. iMovie 3 has added chapters, the "Ken Burns Effect" (panning through still images), and precise audio editing. iDVD 3 has added a ton of quite cool themes, which will look great the first few times you see them.

They are -- along with iTunes -- bundled with all new Macs beginning January 25 as "iLife". All but iDVD will be freely available online, contrary to previously published reports. The entire bundle of four apps will be available for retail purchase for $50.

For sale today at $99 is another new app, Keynote, which is the presentation software Jobs has been using for over a year for his own presentations. It includes all sorts of flashy features like textures and Quartz-powered 3D transitions, and can import and export PowerPoint, as well as export to PDF and QuickTime. It has an open file format (using XML).

Jobs also introduced Final Cut Express, a stripped-down version of Final Cut Pro, for $300, and noted other prominent third-party software recently released for Mac OS X: QuickBooks, Director, and DigiDesign Pro Tools (later this month). He noted that the number of native apps for Mac OS X jumped from 2,000 to 5,000 in 2002.

Meanwhile, the number of users of the OS went from 1.2 million to 5 million last year, and he expects the number to jump to 9 or 10 million in 2003.

Update: 01/07 19:37 GMT by Jamie (also posted with Safari): And thanks to the several Slashdot readers who pointed out a great but unannounced product: X11 (aka the X Windows System) for Mac OS X. It's in Public Beta right now. Great to see this, an Apple-supported X is greatly needed. I don't know why Jobs didn't at least mention this, it would have gotten quite the round of applause I'm sure.

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agent identification for Safari (3, Interesting)

jvmatthe (116058) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034634)

From my web counter on my site:
Netscape 5.0 Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/48 (like Gecko) Safari/48

Looks strange to me. Is this really the KDE HTML rendering engine or is it Gecko? It certainly identifies itself as Netscape 5...

Re:agent identification for Safari (5, Insightful)

Graymalkin (13732) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034715)

If it didn't register itself as Netscape 5 or something with a modicum of site compatibility site scripts would redirect it to the retard text only version of a site.

fp (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5034637)

fp for sak the faggot. atari *

my alarm clock has better gfx bye

My soon-to-be rejected submission (-1, Redundant)

Drakonian (518722) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034642)

A new Apple web brower based on KHTML [kde.org] (!) name Safari [apple.com] . Allegedly the fastest Mac web browser in existence. Open source to boot, they are releasing their updated source to the community. Check out the QuickTime movie [apple.com] where they bookmark Slashdot! The new 17" PowerBook G4 [apple.com] - made with aluminum, only 1 inch thick. "AlBook" doesn't have the same ring to it though. A new 12" PowerBook G4 [apple.com] which is the smallest "full-featured" laptop ever. And a new presentation app named Keynote [apple.com] which looks like a serious PowerPoint competitor. Built specifically for his Steveness. Pretty exciting MacWorld when all is said and done.

Re:My soon-to-be rejected submission (1)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034705)

>> Check out the QuickTime movie where they bookmark Slashdot!

I hear the sequel is even better: you can see Apple's marketing department cutting a cheque with 'slashvertisement' in the memo section.

AlBook (2)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034801)

"AlBook" doesn't have the same ring to it though

I think this man [weirdal.com] would disagree with you!

Re:My soon-to-be rejected submission (0, Offtopic)

Trolling4Dollars (627073) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034836)

Heheheh... yeah. More karma. But of what variety? Negative or positive? Based on the secrets of moderation I read the other day, replying to trolls is "karma suicide". Gotta love it.

Apple surfs Slashdot! (5, Interesting)

green pizza (159161) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034643)

Check out this clip from their new (Konq-based) web browser... they're using Slashdot as an example website!
http://www.apple.com/safari/theater/bookmarks.html [apple.com]

Re:Apple surfs Slashdot! (1)

owenc (255848) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034734)

It would be cool if someone could find out what comment or story this remnant of an url refers to,

www.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/01/06/195724&mo de=thread&tid [slashdot.org]

it briefly appeared on the address bar autocomplete list on the movie

Re:Apple surfs Slashdot! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5034846)

Yeeeow... that's a butt ugly looking web browser. I thought the Mac mantra always wailed aboot how good it's supposed to look. Sheesh, that thing makes friggin KDE look good.

Bah

Safari (3, Interesting)

daemon lover (325815) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034644)

good, but no tabbed browsing.

Re:Safari (3, Interesting)

Clock Nova (549733) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034724)

Switching back to a non-tabbed browser is like switching back to a one-button mouse: feels like cutting off an arm.

It may be fast, but I gotta have tabs and a sidebar for my bookmarks. If they ad these two features, I'll use it.

I tried it, and it IS fast. Too bad.

Re:Safari (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5034744)

And why is this good. I'm used to it now...I hate 20 windows...

Re:Safari (5, Informative)

EccentricAnomaly (451326) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034747)

Put it does block pop-up ads!

beta (2)

simpl3x (238301) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034769)

it's a beta! and, it is quite nice. i just downloaded it, and it is realtively speedy, but the google bar makes the difference. i missed that moving from a windows machine. ui is clean also, and i expect that it will improve markedly by release! very cool... as is the x11! quite nice!

Re:Safari (1)

questor (960) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034806)

It's open source; let's fork the code and add tabs! (And see if Apple merges them into their releases...)

Apple rolled their own X11 too! (4, Informative)

redherring22 (579425) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034647)

OSX X11 [apple.com]
Something Steve didn't mention in his keynote but very cool-- they're really reaching out to the developer crowd here. A double-clickable X11 installer? yeeee-haw!

Re:Apple rolled their own X11 too! (1)

RezConRick (635772) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034671)

The download link is broken. D'oh! Anyway, looks like it uses Quartz. Hopefully video will be faster in this release also.

Re:Apple rolled their own X11 too! (1)

owenc (255848) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034693)

apparently it's not just rootless xdarwin but it uses aqua as the window manager, so you can minimize windows into the dock
too bad the link doesn't work

Re:Apple rolled their own X11 too! (2, Interesting)

mkelley (411060) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034709)

My question is: Will this make OpenOffice for OS X a little easier to develop? I plan on trying this out tonight, and hopefully I can ditch Office X

Apple to XDarwin Developers: Drop Dead (-1, Flamebait)

bongoras (632709) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034753)

So long, and thanks for working hard and for free to get XFree86 working on OS X, but we're gonna release our own XFree86 implementation. That'll teach YOU to give back to the community!

Re:Apple rolled their own X11 too! (2, Interesting)

WatertonMan (550706) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034755)

The X11 with real cut and paste is probably the most exciting thing to me. This will make ports (i.e. Maple 7) much easier. Cut and paste has been the bane of XWindows software. Further it will aid ports like OpenOffice and so forth.

Re:Apple rolled their own X11 too! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5034810)

Dammit, next to the hardware for me this was the BIG NEWS. I can understand why they wouldn't play it though, probably most of the people in the crowd don't know what X11 even is.

"X11? Is that windows xp? huh?"

Yes, you've been able to get the rootless x11 for a while, but this is the *officially apple sanctioned* one, meaning that you can get your clients to actually INSTALL IT WITHOUT FEAR.

Re:Apple rolled their own X11 too! (5, Funny)

malarkey (514857) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034835)

"OSX X11"

How is that pronounced???

oh ess ten ten eleven
oseks eks eleven
os ess eks eks one one ....

I bet Taco was first in line (-1, Troll)

Trolling Thunder (639121) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034653)

To suck Jobs polo-clad cock.

Apple's implementation of X11 also released. (3, Redundant)

surajrai (61661) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034657)

Check it out at:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/

S.r.

Also, Apple based X11 (3, Informative)

Nutcase (86887) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034658)

It seems apple is now pushing it's own X11 implementation at: http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/ [apple.com]

Not announced, but still quite interesting. Its X11, but with all the OS X look on the windows (shadows, genie, etc)

Re:Also, Apple based X11 (1)

Redshift (7411) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034761)

Seems like not quite ready for primetime?

"The requested object does not exist on this server. The link you followed is either outdated, inaccurate, or the server has been instructed not to let you have it. Please inform the site administrator of the referring page. d"

Re:Also, Apple based X11 (2)

plastik55 (218435) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034839)

from that page: Experts may choose to replace the native Aqua window manager with their own familiar, standard X Window Manager.


Now, if only I could substitute my windowmanager of choice for native apps in addition to X11 apps, then I'll never look back at Linux again...

User Quartz (2)

d3xt3r (527989) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034851)


Also nice; it uses the Quartz rendering engine, so X11 is 3D pipelined. Sweet

X11 support from Apple. (1)

stevenprentice (202455) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034664)

I submitted this as a story as it was not covered during the keynote, but it was rejected.

Apple has released beta X11 support [apple.com] including a window server and a few apps.

I gotta say it (-1, Troll)

Reality Master 101 (179095) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034666)

Did Apple announce that they will ship products that are NOT half the speed for twice the price yet?

I await the crucifixion. :)

Re:I gotta say it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5034745)

It must make you feel special to start flamewars, eh?

Oooh! I'm special I'm special! Look at me! I'm a /. Flameinstigator!

IN SOVIET RUSSIA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5034667)

THE APPLE BITES YOU!

Open Source (1)

Petrox (525639) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034668)

The writeup forgot to mention that both Safari and Keynote are open source.

Re:Open Source (1)

questor (960) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034737)

Keynote is not open source. It is open file format, XML, so that other apps (to be written) can generate Keynote presentations (as well as importing/exporting PowerPoint, and exporting PDF and Flash, if I recall correctly), but Steve didn't say anything about Keynote's source code.

Re:Open Source (1)

geniusj (140174) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034750)

Keynote? It costs $99.. Are you sure? :)

Re:Open Source (3, Informative)

dennism (13667) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034774)

The writeup forgot to mention that both Safari and Keynote are open source.

The HTML rendering portion of Safari is open source. Keynote is not -- it's a commercial product like DVD Studio, Final Cut Pro, MacOS X, and just about everything else Apple does.

Unfortunately (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5034669)

introduced the new PowerBooks new and upgraded software to a throng of adoring fans rather than thinking users. Prost Fup!

X11 for Mac OS X (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5034670)

Did anyone notice this?

http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/

Official X11 server also (1, Redundant)

Wesley Felter (138342) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034675)

I don't think Steve mentioned this during the keynote, but Apple also released their own version (?) of XFree86 for OS X [apple.com] . I wonder how this compares to the version from Fink.

Not bad (5, Informative)

Lebannen (626462) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034678)

Fascinating.

It's officially the 'year of the notebook' - so that's how Apple is coping with slow processors then!

Very nice new powerbooks though - especially the 17-incher, with glowing keyboards and ambient light detection. It also adjusts the screen brightness, mmmm :)

Safari, the web browser, is actually based of KHTML - KDE's HTML library. Not bad, especially seeing as they're going to give the 'orders of magnitude' speedups back in the way of the source code.

And digs at Quark. And the rumors sites were practically all wrong. Hah. Best keynote in ages.

All this is sweet (2, Interesting)

sjgman9 (456705) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034685)

Microsoft is going to have to work harder now to keep up. Apple needs to put the PPC970 from IBM and integrate USB2 pronto. Other than that, this was a marvelous keynote.

Woohooo!! (0, Insightful)

gr8gatzby (624204) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034687)

I {HEART} Apple!!!!!!

Other stories (1)

ninenet (638398) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034689)

There is actually a pretty good story [eweek.com] on all the new announcements over at eWEEK also. I was pretty surprised about the browser announcement, mainly because everyone thought Internet Explorer had won the browser war, though it has never worked quite as well on the Mac as it has on the PC. Hopefully this Safari will fly. Has anyone gotten a look at Keynote (the new presentation software) yet?

Re:Other stories (2)

csnydermvpsoft (596111) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034796)

though it has never worked quite as well on the Mac as it has on the PC

Are you kidding? I've used IE on both Mac and Windows, and have to say that the Mac version is much better (though still worse than Chimera). Ditto for MS Office. It seems that when MS formed their Mac division, all of the good programmers flocked to it...

Re:Other stories (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5034853)

The browser wasn't surprising at all seeing as how David Hyatt (One of the guys working on mozilla) was hired by apple a few months ago.

It's odd that the blurb at the top says it's khtml because the interface is pretty much exactly the same as phoenix on pc/linux (There isn't a mac version)

The search textbox even uses the same icon as the browser currently known as phoenix.

Safari rocks! (5, Insightful)

Knife_Edge (582068) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034691)

I just wanted to mention that after using Safari for a few minutes now, it appears to be amazing. The browser is so much faster it is like a hardware upgrade. On my 500mhz iBook I have never been able to scroll smoothly through pages on any browser. Now scrolling is almost perfectly smooth! Great job with the browser Apple!

Re:Safari rocks! (2)

Drakonian (518722) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034802)

I hear it has popup blocking, which is nice. Does it have any tabs?

Disinformation (5, Insightful)

WatertonMan (550706) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034692)

Wow. You have to hand it to Steve. Great disinformation to make people expect the worst (paid upgrades) and then doesn't do it. Then the rumors that had been around (Chimera browser) are partially right and we get elements of Konquerer in OSX. Also, contrary to rumors, there were new machines building on where Apple is still as strong, if not stronger, than the PC world: the laptop market.

(Remember that laptop CPUs typically don't run as fast as desktop equivalents - especially when on battery. Most OSX laptops are as fast as PC equivalents. So the CPU gap doesn't apply)

I can't wait to download the new iApps (sorry, iLife) as well.

come one safari with me (1)

eddiecore (592547) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034694)

this browser that they speak of is ridiculously quick. i've used omniweb, mozilla, internet explorer, chimera, opera and netscape. steve's benchmarks are frighteningly accurate.

Favorite Part (5, Funny)

Spyky (58290) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034695)

My favorite part of the keynote:

Gigantic screen behind Steve Job reads:
"Open Source
We think it's great"

-Spyky

Safari... (2)

hysterion (231229) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034697)

So now there is Mail.app, and Safari [apple.com] . (Taking a page from the O'Reilly bookshelf...? [oreilly.com] )

Both great ideas, but... it's not like we'd lack mailers/browsers anyway, is it? What I'd really like to see them (or someone) do is an integrated mail+news reader. Like (pine, emacs, the good'uns...) but graphical too. ("For my woman" ;-)

So you can keep one library for mail and news articles, and search/move stuff around there to your heart's content.

It only makes sense, since the format is basically the same, and news traffic often intermingles with mail anyway. People sending you private answers, etc.

Right now, Mozilla is the only one that comes close -- afaik, it's the only integrated mail+news reader in Aqua. The bliss of saving a news post onto your imap box, drag & drop.

But why, oh why, does it have to keep also the browser in the same process? This soon gets humongous (nearly 100 Mb at the moment), and why should your mailer crash at the whim of any miscoded javascript site? That doesn't make sense.

So here's to Mail+News.app -- or else, a nice Minotaur/Thunderbird. [mozilla.org]

Maybe now ... (1)

Quixotic Raindrop (443129) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034698)

people will stop bitching about the lack of OS X user support? Come on. If you only sold your product, for $100, to 1% of the OS peopulation, you'd sell 50,000 units. That's 5 million dollars in income. That easily covers the cost of porting, machines, and lab time. Quark, what the f*** are you waiting for?

Anatomy sized notebook (1)

redtail1 (603986) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034699)

Call me shortsighted, but I don't see the market for the 12" Powerbook. I think they'll merely be cannibalizing the sales of the existing iBook models. Consumers will be confused, product lines blurred.

Re:Anatomy sized notebook (2)

Graymalkin (13732) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034814)

Well since the Powerbook starts at the price point the iBook ends at it can't really cannabalize sales. With the new low end Powerbook you end up with a G4, faster memory, a better video card, built-in Bluetooth, and an optional Superdrive. I don't really see how that compares to an iBook that is three hundred dollars cheaper in terms of market overlap.

Re:Anatomy sized notebook (2)

grue23 (158136) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034837)

the 12" powerbook is shiny and ibooks are plastic. apple consumers shouldn't be confused.

the market is for people who want a more powerful machine in a small package, which is a market that does exist.

Re:Anatomy sized notebook (2)

bwalling (195998) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034848)

Call me shortsighted, but I don't see the market for the 12" Powerbook. I think they'll merely be cannibalizing the sales of the existing iBook models. Consumers will be confused, product lines blurred.

The 12" PowerBook won't sell at all. Why pay $500 more for +67MHz and a G4? Screw that. Just buy an iBook. The only people that will buy that thing are people that want the cheapest possible way to get the SuperDrive notebook.

Re:Anatomy sized notebook (3, Interesting)

rattler14 (459782) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034849)

Actually, it bridges the gap between the iBook quite nicely. I've talked to a couple people about this before, that would really like the features of the powerbook, but couldn't spend $2400+ on one, but the iBook didn't have enough horsepower for their liking... sometimes size is a considerations as well. all and all, the market for it may not be huge, but it definitely helps the people caught in between the old iBook/Powerbook lineups

Tolda ya so (1, Offtopic)

Drakonian (518722) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034700)

Neener neener neener! ;) Yesterday [slashdot.org] . OK, so it's based on KHTML and not Gecko. Interesting choice!

Re-use (1)

polyhue (38042) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034701)

OK I'm too lazy to look it up, but can anyone else use Apple's "cleaned up" khtml engine now or does the license allow them to keep it closed? I just tried it, and it is pretty damn snappy, but no tabs is a deal-breaker. Lame-o's.

Re:Re-use (1)

polyhue (38042) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034748)

OK I'm an idiot who didn't read the whole thing. Hopefully someone with some skills (not I) can get some tabs in this things ASAP!

why khtml?? i'll tell ya (1)

hfastedge (542013) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034703)

I was watching the keynote (always interesting and fun) and with regards to safari, the new webrowser, steve said that apple started on this over a year ago. And he really excited me when he announced it was open source. So im thinking (hell yeah mozilla). Then I see its based on khtml .... and im like "wtf".

But if you remember, only a few days ago here on /. there was a timeline of where mozilla has come from in the last year [mozilla.org] .

You have to remember that 1 year ago, 1.0 wasnt even a reality.

Anyway, it'll take another year if apple will take in mozilla at all.

PBook with 12 inch display (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5034710)

Oh jeez, PBook with a 12 inch display and the lowest model starts at $1800. What a joke. Maybe if Apple had reasonable prices they'd control more than like, oh, say 0.1% of the market.

C'mon Apple, get with the times. Nobody except a few hardcore zealots are going to buy your overpriced crap.

16:10 aspect ratio :) - sweet (2)

Sean Clifford (322444) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034712)

The 17" PowerBook finally has everything in a notebook I've been looking for - the final missing pieces being a 16:10 aspect-ratio monitor and a keyboard big enough for my fat fingers to type on comfortably.

I'll end up paying less for my next car than this notebook. :P

Awesome (1)

mr100percent (57156) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034713)

This is great, I can't wait to try these new apps out. Now that Direct Connect is out for OS X, I have all the apps I need.

One thing though, when are they going to release iTunes 3.1, with Rendezvous LAN streaming of your playlist?

First post from a Safari browser... (1, Flamebait)

SaturnTim (445813) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034714)


I got it... it seems fast. It does have the option of blocking pop-ups. It has a brushed metal appearance which I found a little odd.... Looks more like quicktime than the other mac applications.

Now, if they add tabbed browsing before the beta is over, I can ditch the other browsers on my system.

--Tim

Powerbooks are attractive.. (1)

J x (160849) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034720)

The chips used in Apple laptops are the same ones that go in the desktop, unlike Intel's where there are two (really four) lines of chips. The G3 in the iBooks are newer than the ones in the G3 iMac only because G3 iMacs are no longer made. In my TIbook, I have a G4(7450) 800MHz which was used in the G4 PowerMacs. This what makes a Mac notebook/laptop very attractive.

hrmmm... (2)

ultramk (470198) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034725)

(which Steve himself has been "beta testing" at every Macworld keynote since 2002)

So let's see... that would be um, uh, lemme see... one (1) Macworld Keynote?

Well, at least they test more than MS...

mk-

Why KHTML rather than Gecko? (4, Interesting)

Bonker (243350) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034726)

Why KHTML rather than Gecko, I wonder?

Of course if they were both perfectly compliant, it wouldn't matter, but neither one is.

Gecko has a larger install base with existing Netscape, Moz, Chameleon, Galeon, and Phoenix installs, and is more likely, with AOL converts, to have a larger market share and have more 'feature-rich' pages designed to render properly in it. Both are cross-platform.

(BTW, have you used Phoenix .5 yet? Whoowee! 6mb download and faster than IE in every way in Win2000)

The only thing I can figure out here is that Steve really likes KDE or he really doesn't like the MPL. Maybe he's paranoid about helping Steve Case any more than need be by speeding Moz/Netscape acceptance.

Re:Why KHTML rather than Gecko? (5, Informative)

owenc (255848) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034804)

I think since QT was ported to OS X, it's easier to use native widgets with KHTML rather than gecko. Chimera for instance does not use real aqua text entry and widgets within the web page, but a theme that looks like they are.

How about quid pro quo? (QT player for Linux) (2)

jvmatthe (116058) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034727)

Sure, they're giving back source improvements for things they're getting from the free software world, but how about giving something we've been asking for nicely for years...a native Linux QuickTime player and plugin? I don't really think most people will care that it's not free; I'm fairly hardcore about free software, but will admit right here for all to see that I'd use a non-free, Linux native QuickTime player/plugin from Apple.

Yes, I know about CrossOver. Thanks anyway.

Innovation... (3, Interesting)

Eric_Cartman_South_P (594330) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034730)

...without any monkey-boy dancing on stage. I've never been blown away (easy there, wise-guy) before by a presentation like the one Apple just had. The 17 inch PowerBook is my next computer. And my desktop and laptop will appear on www.ebay.com very soon. Such an amazing computer running BSD (right?) at the core, with software that just works, and most importantly to me, a great GUI with respect for design huristics and usability.

Oh, my spalling does suck, but nevermind about that :)

The keyboard design is brilliant (there's a pun there, I think). The only thing missing is a little camera somewhere to enable Video Conferencing (which I use a lot with all my friends and some of my clients). But no complaints.

I probrably don't have anything smart to say right now... too busy drooling after having watched the entire live stream of the keynote. But if anyone wants to throw links to great places new Mac ownsers can go to (such as http://fink.sourceforge.net/ ) I'd LOVE to see your thoughts, links, suggestions, etc.

backlit keyboard?? f'n cool (4, Informative)

SirSlud (67381) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034735)

Okay, I'm sure some poster will happily link to prior art, but that keyboard is fucking cool.

Automagically adjusting itself depending on the ambient light ... fibre optic light strips ... the Christians are going to have a whole other sexuality to denounce this year, cause between the aluminum casing, the 1440x990 screen, this just might be the year where people are finally caught literally humping their powerbooks. Look at those pics, I know I would!

What next (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5034736)

Apple dumps aqua for kde? That would be good, kde 3.1 blasts gnome and windows out the water, and its keramik gui is even better than Aqua!

Blah blah blah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5034741)

Puleeez.... enough of this Apple Mac wannabe crap, what happened to the day when we actually had storie aboot Unix and cool tech stuff.

Bah

Mac guys (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5034742)

I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you Mac fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of a Mac (a 8600/300 w/64 Megs of RAM) for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to copy a 17 Meg file from one folder on the hard drive to another folder. 20 minutes. At home, on my Pentium Pro 200 running NT 4, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this Mac, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.

In addition, during this file transfer, Netscape will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even BBEdit Lite is straining to keep up as I type this.

I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on various Macs, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a Mac that has run faster than its Wintel counterpart, despite the Macs' faster chip architecture. My 486/66 with 8 megs of ram runs faster than this 300 mhz machine at times. From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that the Macintosh is a superior machine.

Mac addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use a Mac over other faster, cheaper, more stable systems.

Wow (4, Interesting)

bogie (31020) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034751)

"Jobs also introduced Safari, a new Mac OS X browser based on the KHTML rendering engine from KDE "

I can't believe they would not adopt Chimera, especially with David Hyatt now working at Apple. No offense to KDE which I hold oh so dear over any other WM system, but Gecko is just a better engine. Its truly cross platform, has a huge amount of momentum behind it, and AOL would essentially be doing R&D for free for Apple. Not to even mention the fact the Netscape/Moz has much much better industry suport,a ton of addons and a much larger user base. If this is true I'd just call the move foolish.

iDONOTCARE (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5034758)

iDONOTCARE

posting this from safari (3, Informative)

elliotj (519297) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034765)

first impressions:

* no tabbed browsing - wtf?
* no way to import bookmarks - got a hundred in chimera, time to poke around and see if I can figure a way to do it
* nice default fonts
* respects internet preferences like homepage
* nice brused look
* looks clean

17" AlBook:
* what's up with the keyboard. they're using the same sized keyboard for the 12" and 17" models. wtf? the 17" has so much more space, and a bigger keyboard would be a great feature .... much better than backlighting!

Posting this from Safari. (2, Informative)

Erik K. Veland (574016) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034771)

While I'm definitly going to sell both my current macs and buy the new 17" lust-object, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the public beta of Safari is one hell of a pre-released alpha.

The interface is super-nice, and the features outstanding. But the browser rendering? Well it sucks donkey-bottom. I've sent in no less than six bug-reports in the first three minutes I used it. It didn't load my css on my home page at all, macnn.com is missing tables. A surprise that they even found ten good sites to show in the keynote. I'm really looking forward to this browser maturing, but for now Chimera 0.6.0 is the way to go.

Too bad though, Safari is - like I said - real sleek in the interface way. And fast too. But heck, I've waited this long for Chimera to mature, so why not wait a little more. It's heck of a lot more promising than just a few screenshots of a future Apple-browser.

more apple contempt for its customer base (0, Troll)

jamespancake (623200) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034775)

Instead of upgrading the iBook line they introduce a new machine which features a processor that, according to my damaged memory, was introduced at least a year ago for $500 more than the iBook it should have gone in to. Apple loves you. They really, really do.

Also, pay no mind to the fact that the iBook they'd like you to buy has a graphics card that doesn't take advantage of the finder-level hardware graphics acceleration they built into sytem 10.2. You'll be cooler than a Windows/*nix/whatever user. That's all that matters.

12" Powerbook Very Cool! But... (5, Insightful)

SlashChick (544252) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034782)

I watched the Quicktime keynote with great interst, hoping that Jobs would finally introduce a 4-pound notebook. I've been waiting for one for a while, so I'm really excited that Apple finally introduced one!

Unfortunately, however, the notebook doesn't include DVI-out support, so my monitor [sgi.com] would fall back to VGA mode if I tried to use the notebook with it. Does anyone know if Apple or a third party plans to offer a PC Card with DVI support? Margi had one, but it's only 4MB... not quite enough for this particular monitor.

Also, one thing Apple keeps failing to address is the #1 reason I haven't switched to a Mac. Steve, where are the software trade-in incentives? I own Photoshop 6 and 7, Dreamweaver MX, and Microsoft Office XP for the PC. What on Earth is keeping Apple and/or other vendors from offering trade-in incentives? Why can I not trade in my two boxed Photoshop-for-PC copies and receive Photoshop 7 for Mac OS X? The same goes for Dreamweaver MX. The cost to move to a Mac is almost doubled by the $1500 worth of software that I already have for my PC.

Here's hoping Apple will start to address this issue, especially since the platform is geared toward video developers and graphic designers -- two markets whose people invest heavily in expensive software.

Safari is the fastest Mac browser (1)

iJed (594606) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034784)

I've just downloaded Safari and have to say its the best browser I've ever used. The only problem I had was importing my Chimera bookmarks but that didn't take long to fix. Safari also has the most stunning page rendering that I've ever seen!

safari (2)

Triv (181010) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034786)

Just DLed safari. Works well, (and blocks pop-ups! and integrates google search! And cleanly handles ad cookies!) except:

1. NO TABS. Tabs are the greatest thing about chimera and I've gotten quite used to them. I like only having one open window. 2. the brushed metal theme only encompasses the menubar area with no frame at all around the rest. It looks...odd - none of the windows have real borders which works well for the finder but looks off for a web-browser.

it IS still in beta, of course, and I'm truly torn between this and Chimera. Let's see what happens. :)

Triv

I LOVE Safari (2, Informative)

TomHandy (578620) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034790)

First off, I'm glad to see that Apple did not start charging for the main iApps (only iDVD, which makes sense). The software demonstrations were actually really impressive, as I'm normally bored by the software demonstrations. The new PowerBooks are also nifty, but I'm probably not going to buy one any time soon, since I already have a 12 inch iBook.

But of all of this, Safari is the coolest. I know "a new web browser" isn't exactly earth shattering news, but this is really nice to have. I am running Safari now, and I love the little UI touches, and the speed of it is great.....it has replaced Chimera for me. So far I've encountered only one site which didn't display properly (on gamespot.com, the login fields distorted the grey graphic they were on), so I clicked the little Bug reporting button and submitted it......quick and painless.

So far I'm really impressed though. A new web browser may not be exciting, but since this is one of the main apps I use, having something that is really fast and slick is very nice.

Thumbs up!

-Tom

and X11 for osX (2)

eshefer (12336) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034793)

what's the really interesting announcement for unix geeks..

not mentuned at the keynote at all, but a press release is out:http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030107/sftu107_1.h tml

"allows X11-based applications to run side-by-side with native Mac OS X applications on the same desktop and makes it even simpler to port X11-based applications to the Mac®. Apple's implementation of X11, the common windowing environment for UNIX operating systems, is easy to install and is optimized to take full advantage of Apple's innovative Quartz(TM) graphics system to deliver hardware-accelerated 2D and 3D graphics for fast text scrolling, dynamic dragging and resizing of windows, and stunning 3D animation through OpenGL Direct Rendering"

"beta tested at every Macworld keynote in 2002" (3, Funny)

artemis67 (93453) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034795)

Uhh... by my count, there were only 3 Macworld keynotes in 2002.

And here I thought only Microsoft tested their products three times before they shipped.

Awesome. (1)

prabhath (620114) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034805)

Can't wait to get my hands on one of those powerbooks... once I can cough up the money.

With Safari, a lot of it's new features have been available on the Phoenix browser on PCs. Although i have to say that the new bookmark renaming and the snapback features are pretty cool. (Jobs failed to mention that Safari DOES block popup ads too, the website notes this at the bottom... see ya later IE!)

The 12" powerbook completes the last empty segment in apple's product lineup.. the ultraportable superpowerful laptop.. IBM has had their X series for a while now, but I have to say that the apple laptops are lightyears ahead of any PC laptop. (I say this as I write on an IBM Thinkpad).

Those iLife apps are all topnotch. They all work wonderfully and to see them work together is even better. I don't believe Windows Media Player even comes close to the ease of use as iTunes (not to mention WMP looks like a$$)

I've always been a WinTel user, but you can consider me a "Switcher"

Logic. (1)

grub (11606) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034809)


Assuming that:
BSD is dying and Apple is dying. Does this double negative mean I should finally buy a TiBook?

Why the 440 Go!? (2)

slithytove (73811) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034813)

I've been excited to get a powerbook for as long as the titanium ones have been around. A few months ago I got even more excited about the presence of vertex units in the radeon9000 which is in the last round of tibooks. Today, finding out about the 17" PB nearly made me cream my pants, then I find out its a 440 go (no vertex units) and I'm suddenly conflicted about screen-size vs vertex units:( I mean, which one is the ultimate DooM III notebook? ;)

How about iSuck? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5034815)

And uSuck, too. :)

On the name of that browser... (2)

thatguywhoiam (524290) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034824)

Since I haven't seen it mentioned, and all the obvious SteveNote bits will soon be pounded into oblivion...

I think the Safari name is very clever, considering the fact that 'to browse' originally is a term applied to animals foraging for sustenance. Safari indeed.

Brushed Metal Look (1)

The Glory of Witty (636939) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034826)

I'm posting this using Safari, and all I can say is brushed metal on a web browser is a definite no-no.

I really thought... (1)

Gortbusters.org (637314) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034828)

Apple was onboard with Mozilla... and they bust out KDE stuff??

Someone call a priest! (2)

sporty (27564) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034838)

There's nothing especially great about it -- it's a web browser -- except that, unlike most other browsers, it is expected to be fast and work properly, as well as be fully integrated into Mac OS X.


"I'm sorry, my browswer isn't broken, it just don't 'work' like konq does. For some odd reason makes fun of me and keeps spinning it's head around. Worst part of it is, it wants me to read all my pages in latin!" :D

Sorry, I'm a mozilla fan and thought how funny and strange that konqueror is so perfect :)

Why kHTML? (2)

mcc (14761) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034842)

My first reaction is.. wow.. that's a lot of.. stuff. I was expecting this keynote to be just hot air. This definitely eases the pain of Nintendo's "megaton" announcement having nothing to do with Gamecube games ^_^ But, onto my question for all you linux-at-home users out there:

Has anyone know why they chose to make Safari based on kHTML instead of Gecko? What is the reasoning here? I think i kind of just wish they'd commandeered Chimera [mozdev.org] instead, and added all those browser-ish features it was missing. If it's still missing them. I guess I'll download that again and check. Um, ANYWAY..

Why kHTML? Is it faster than Gecko, or easier to hook into, or something? I cannot really comment on this, as I'm not a big KDE fan and so haven't been following Konqueror, and I can't really comment on the speed of Gecko sans Mozilla since i haven't checked out Chimera since v0.1, and can't get Galeon to work*. What's up with this? It seems it would make more sense for Apple to throw their weight into Mozilla, but i can't really come up with any good justification why I'm saying that.

Whatever. Might as well check this Safari thing out and see if it's any more fully-featured than Chimera and any better at rendering standard webpages than Omniweb [omnigroup.org] , or if i'll still be using MSIE tomorrow..

* P.S., if anyone out there can give me any tips as to how the heck to get Galeon up and running under Solaris when one is not Root, let me know. Last time i attempted i got as far as GDK/GTK+ all working and installed in my home directory and stuff, and never quite managed to get the GNOME libraries set up. Eh.. ^_^

I love their new payment option! (2)

Jonny Ringo (444580) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034844)

which is the ability to exchange 1 kidney for a customized powerbook!

Hmmm Nice Laptops (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5034845)

Holy cow, I like the 17in PowerBook!
Can't wait till Toshiba, Dell, HP, Fujitsu all copy it and sell it for 1/2 price.

I mean, come on! $3300 is a lot for a computer with a 1GHz processor, even if I did for some reason need to burn DVDs while riding the bus.

Nice and shiny though.

They're probably reading this right now... (2)

aftk2 (556992) | more than 11 years ago | (#5034852)

...because some of Apple's web developers read Slashdot. How am I so certain? Check out their demo of Safari's bookmarks. [apple.com] (Quicktime required).

"Still Hope for Farscape" ?! Damn, they must have just got those pages done. Smart though - if you're going to release a buggy beta of your new web browser software, it can break on 98% of the web...but don't you dare let it break on Slashdot!
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