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Palm Kills Off Graffiti

Hemos posted more than 11 years ago | from the the-end-of-the-circles dept.

Handhelds 440

Ed writes "PalmSource, the company that makes the Palm OS, has decided to stop using Graffiti for text input in all future versions of its operating system. Instead, it will switch to using a version of CIC's Jot recognition system, which will be called Graffiti 2. PalmSource was forced to make this move after losing a patent infringement lawsuit brought by Xerox. Jot is already used by the Pocket PC operating system. You can read more about it on Brighthand."

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IST PSOT!!!!!1FR (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5074763)

FRIST PSOT!!!!!1 haha, pwnd pwnd. pwnd pwnd.

YOU FILTHY SLUTBURGER (-1)

Trolling Thunder (639121) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074857)

IT's not a true fp if you're not logged in. Shouts to all my logged int trollaz

Re:YOU FILTHY SLUTBURGER (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5074917)

I CAN SMELL YOUR JEALOUSY.

wow (1)

unterderbrucke (628741) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074764)

that sucks
i really liked grafitti...

Re:wow (1)

PNut_Head (631216) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074810)

I agree. I migrated from a Palm device to a Compaq Ipaq with PocketPC 2002 and still like to use the graffiti alphabet because I've gotten so proficient with it. I wonder if future version of PocketPC will continue to support graffiti (it supports graffiti, a handwriting recognizer, jot and a onscreen keyboard for input) or will drop it in favor of graffiti2?

I'd have an FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5074771)

if it weren't for the fucking 20-second waiting period.

And also, I had to pull my cock out of Kate Fent's mouth, so that took a little time, too.

FP killed off (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5074779)

Replaced with FP2.

Great... (5, Funny)

einstein (10761) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074783)

Now, after making my handwriting unreadable to anyone/anything but a Graffiti capable palm, the next generation devices won't be able to read what I write either. keyboards from here out, I guess.

Re:Great... (5, Funny)

jmb-d (322230) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074983)

I was able to be productive using Graffiti almost immediately, as my writing was eerily similar to it already.

Re:Great... (2)

kwerle (39371) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074990)

Now, after making my handwriting unreadable to anyone/anything but a Graffiti capable palm, the next generation devices won't be able to read what I write either. keyboards from here out, I guess.

Dvorak? Qwerty? Standard? Split? V? Light sensor?

And WHERE IS THE CONTROL KEY?

We're all screwwed!!!

slashdotted server already (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5074786)

By the Brighthand News Team
January 13th, 2003
When you think Palm, you think Graffiti. But Palm's long-standing association with its home-grown character recognition software is about to take a dramatic turn. PalmSource, the operating system subsidiary of Palm, Inc., announced today that future versions of Palm OS will not contain Graffiti. Rather, they will incorporate a modified version of Communication Intelligence Corporation's Jot handwriting recognition software, something it's calling Graffiti 2 powered by Jot.

The impetus for the switch appears to be legal rather than technical. In April 1997, Xerox sued Palm, claiming that Graffiti was essentially derived from its patented Unistrokes technology. Unistrokes, or "Unistrokes for Computerized Interpretation of Handwriting", as it is referred to in Xerox's 1997 patent, is a system of text-entry using single-stroke symbols for computerized recognition of handwritten text. However, it appeared Palm dodged a legal bullet when, in June 2000, a federal judge dismissed the case. But in late 2001, Xerox won a reversal in the U.S. Court of Appeals and the lawsuit was back on, and it's been hanging over Palm's head ever since.

CIC's Jot recognition software has long been found on competing handhelds running on the Pocket PC platform. As with Graffiti, its alphabet is based on block characters. However, unlike Graffiti, some characters require two rather than one stroke. Therefore, Jot characters more closely resemble common block letters than Graffiti characters. According to Marlene Somsak, Palm's VP of Communications, this will reduce the learning curve. "For new Palm users, Graffiti 2 powered by Jot is more intuitive and natural than Graffiti," Ms. Somsak told Brighthand.

Hints to Graffiti's demise began to surface last year, when Palm OS licensee Handspring said it was dropping Graffiti in favor of integrated thumb-type keyboards for its Treo organizers. And Palm itself announced in November that, for the first time, it was bundling Communication Intelligence Corporation's Jot handwriting recognition software with its upcoming Tungsten W handheld.

According to Lee Williams, VP of Engineering for PalmSource, the move to Graffiti 2 will allow Palm Platform licensees the choice of foregoing the silk-screened "hard" Graffiti area, since Jot can accept input from anywhere on a device's touchscreen.

According to Mr. Williams, Graffiti 2 powered by Jot will be a modified version of the current version of Jot found on CIC's website. It will be included in future releases of the Palm operating system, including the upcoming Palm OS 4.1.2 and Palm OS 5.2, and will be included in the Palm Developer's Kit (PDK) as part of a unified API.

Wouldn't this be patenting the alphabet? (5, Insightful)

Viewsonic (584922) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074905)

I mean, it doesn't matter HOW you write the text, im sure some people write in uni-strokes as it is with a pen and paper without even knowing what it is.. How could Xerox patent a writing STYLE? Can I patent the way I make a capital P? Absurd!

Re:slashdotted server already (2)

Asprin (545477) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074994)


CIC's Jot recognition software has long been found on competing handhelds running on the Pocket PC platform. As with Graffiti, its alphabet is based on block characters. However, unlike Graffiti, some characters require two rather than one stroke. Therefore, Jot characters more closely resemble common block letters than Graffiti characters. According to Marlene Somsak, Palm's VP of Communications, this will reduce the learning curve. "For new Palm users, Graffiti 2 powered by Jot is more intuitive and natural than Graffiti," Ms. Somsak told Brighthand.


The letter 'x' requires two strokes on old graffitti - why doesn't that count?

Re:slashdotted server already (1)

jandrese (485) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075061)

No it doesn't. An X is made like a Jesus fish. You start in the upper left hand part, head down and to the right, then loop back up to the top right and continue down to the bottom left. Fortunatly the Grafitti system is smart enough to recognise when you use two strokes, but the official method is a single stroke. It's probably a special case.

Re:slashdotted server already (1)

kaotao (94840) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075064)

Actually you can write 'x' in one stroke, as a backwards Graffiti 'k'.

Don't toss out those spray paint cans yet... (5, Insightful)

Robotech_Master (14247) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074788)

I expect that someone will come up with a hack or add-on application that mimics graffiti for future PalmOS machines, just the same way you can install alternate handwriting recognition systems for today's. So folks who're so well-trained in graffiti that it shows up in household notes they write probably won't have to worry too much about the Palm of the future.

Re:Don't toss out those spray paint cans yet... (2, Interesting)

JPawloski (546146) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074991)

I'm way, way, way faster entering text with one of the various freeware Qwerty screen-based keyboards (VirtualKB is great) and am toying with moving directly to one of those silkscreen thingies you can put on the graffiti area to type Qwerty there.

Graffiti is definitely not all it's cracked up to be (at least for me) while I can write the graffitis fast enough, I find it extremely disconcerting to write characters on top of each other: it goes against many years of learned behaviour (handwriting) and for this reason I don't think it'll ever feel natural. I also read somewhere an article that was talking about exactly this phenomenon.

In my opinion there is no reason for graffiti/graffiti-like stuff to exist: for pdas use a Qwertyish keyboard (on screen or hardware) for tablet PCs just use standard handwriting recognition software.

IN SOVIET RUSSIA... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5074789)

...graffiti kills your palms! (and it does!)

Also on CNN (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5074792)

Link [cnn.com]

LAME (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5074797)

CIC tech is crap. This is really bad news.

Pete Townshend Arrested (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5074804)

on child porn charges. Nice.

Re:Pete Townshend Arrested (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5074853)

Fiddling about! Fiddling about!

Graffiti was too slow anyway... (2)

httpamphibio.us (579491) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074806)

One of the big advantages of digital input is the ability to input text faster than you can write it, graffiti never made any sense to me for that reason.

Not only was (and still is) text recognition HORRIBLE, especially for people that have "unique" handwriting, like myself, but it's just so slooooow.

Re:Graffiti was too slow anyway... (2)

Neil Watson (60859) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074925)

Exactly. When will I be able to dictate my notes to my PDA?

so long, farewell (5, Interesting)

greechneb (574646) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074807)

I never was really fond of graffiti, it was a pain to try to type in.

I finally learned, and got rather proficient at it. The breaking point was when I started to write on paper using graffiti. It was then I realized how dependant I was on it.

Re:so long, farewell (5, Funny)

TrevorB (57780) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074901)

I never was really fond of graffiti, it was a pain to try to type in.

If you were trying to type your graffiti instead of writing it... that miiiiight just have been part of the problem.... ;)

Actually, you could create a "graffiti" keyboard, with the graffiti symbols instead of letters. That could sorta be cool. ThinkGeek anyone? Nah, probably an infringement.

Dear Hemos, (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5074811)

Shit man, you have a lot of problems but it sounds like you need to quit smoking so much cock. Get yourself a Dick-orette patch and slap that puppy on your blistery mouth. Not only will it help you quit your addiction but the fact that you are denying your boy-toy's daily blow, should help twist his arm (or other limb) into gratifying you for once. Damn, your boyfriend sucks(I know not literally), but seriously...he sounds like the kind of guy who will just fuck you in the ass and not even have the common courtesy to reach around and jack you off. And as for the dildo, if you don't wanna have anything to do with it, just don't. Throw it back at him. Ain't nuthin' like a little gratuitous cock-flinging out his second floor window in Lag to get the party started.

Good luck.
Love,
Edge

Aw... (1)

danielobvt (230251) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074814)

what a loss.... Not! Can't say I was a big fan, and I really tried to be. But anything that impairs my data input as much as it did, will not cause me to shed tears over its demise.

Hopefully it will be easier for non-geeks... (5, Insightful)

rickthewizkid (536429) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074816)

It seems to me that PocketPC attracts many people by the fact that it uses normal handwriting recognition instead of a "weird" Graffiti format. Most non-geek people are attracted by the fact that they do not need to learn a new way to write on this device.

I just hope that the "new" graffiti is easier on non-geeks...

RickTheWizKid
Stupid Muggle technology...

Re:Hopefully it will be easier for non-geeks... (2, Insightful)

sporty (27564) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075056)

Graffiti is no more a geek thing, than manual transmition. It's just a method of input. If you can learn it, then you can do it.

Speaking for "most non-geek people" is a big thing. Do you have any data to backup your claim?

Next Gen Palm OS (1)

FrankConners (639830) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074821)

I hope we see this feature in the upcoming Palm OS release. Im still personally deciding whether I should invest in a Palm, 2nd hand iPAQ or a Dell (not sure if its possible to purchase a Dell X5 from Australia)

Consistency (5, Funny)

Thatmushroom (447396) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074822)

Ok, here [slashdot.org] we have people complaining about how grafitti is a bad thing, but in this thread there will be lots of people who really like grafitti. Am I the only one that's utterly confused?

Re:Consistency (3, Insightful)

dextr0us (565556) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074868)


maybe people have different opinions. Slashdot isn't made out of people who think the same way everyone else does, or else that'd be boring. With the exception of liking technology, the slashdot community is diverse and sometimes friendly.

PS If you're remotley sly, see what else i wrote.

Re:Consistency (1)

Thatmushroom (447396) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075053)

Well, I admit, this really was just my attempt at a joke. I know there are certainly people who hate Grafitti (the shorthand script, as I'm inclined to call it), and there are those who love it. I predict that more people will be upset about having to retrain themselves in a new script.

So yeah, thanks for pointing out that my humor isn't funny without moderating me to oblivion.

I LOVED Graffiti! (5, Insightful)

callipygian-showsyst (631222) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074827)

Palm's use of Graffiti was one of the most interesting marketing decisions ever made!

Apple thought it was so important to have real handwrighting recognition in the Newton, for example, that it was willing to adopt the technology before it was ready. Conventional wisdom said that ordinary users wouldn't want to learn a funny way of writing.

Boy was Conventional Wisdom wrong! It was FUN to learn grafitti. When I first got my Palm, I couldn't wait to learn it, so I can be "in the club" like everyone else. I ran their practice app, and got good at it within an hour.

Jot's probably not too different; maybe they can put in a "Graffity Compatibility mode" now that Palm's paying the royalties.

Re:I LOVED Graffiti! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5074921)

I agree! It was FUN to learn graffiti.

By the way, your 3D web cam is the COOLEST THING I've EVER seen on the web!!! How can I get one?

Obligatory Newton joke... (5, Funny)

dillon_rinker (17944) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074979)

Q: How many Newtons does it take to change a light bulb?

A: Faux! There to eat lemons, axe gravy soup!

Re:Obligatory Newton joke... (1)

callipygian-showsyst (631222) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075027)

I have the book "Defying Gravity" about the Newton team. (NO, I didn't buy it, Apple gave it to me, along with a newton.)

The saddest thing in the story is that some poor soul on the Newton team, stressed to the limits, committed suicide! These people were told that they were going to make the world a better place, and if they screwed up, the world will suffer. Apparently, some really believed the bull, and (almost) literally, "drank the cool-aid" albeit with a pistol.

slow and non-standard (5, Informative)

g4dget (579145) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075007)

Graffiti combined the worst features of custom strokes and regular writing: like custom strokes, it required training, and like regular writing, it was comparatively slow. In addition, it required most people to look at the handheld.

Palm should have used something like Jot from the start, or they should have copied Xerox's Unistrokes better.

Here [yorku.ca] is some Unistrokes performance data showing it to be the fastest of the bunch. There are papers comparing Graffiti and Unistrokes directly, and, again, Unistrokes comes out way ahead.

Re:I LOVED Graffiti! (3, Insightful)

iso (87585) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075025)

You're kidding, right? Please tell me this is sarcasm.

If you aren't kidding, sure, maybe you wanted to learn it for "fun," but you are a big geek (not an insult, just a fact). Most people do not want to have to (weeeeeeeee) fiddle around for ages to figure out how to use their new organizer.

The Palm didn't succeed because of Grafitti, it succeeded in spite of it. It was cheap, small, with a simple interface (Grafitti notwithstanding). The Newton is still far superior in just about every way, it just wasn't as marketable at the time.

- j

Well, that's it for Palm. (5, Insightful)

rodgerd (402) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074830)

There's nothing dumber for them to do. If you're going to make people think about a completely new user interface, they're going to think about migrating to PocketPC devices, as well.

Re:Well, that's it for Palm. (1)

inteller (599544) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074976)

Wow, I couldn't have said it better....of course, I never got used to Palm's 286 era interface anyhow. Instead of trying to glom on add-ons to match it feature for feature with PocketPC, just scrap the entire OS and write something that works. Palm OS was meant for nothing more than a fancy address book anyways.

Re:Well, that's it for Palm. (3, Informative)

EdFromBrighthand (640852) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075004)

If you're going to make people think about a completely new user interface, they're going to think about migrating to PocketPC devices, as well.
But they aren't making a completely new user interface, all they did was change the character recognition software.

People don't want Graffiti, Jot and so on (4, Interesting)

loggia (309962) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074836)

I love Graffiti, but I have noticed that most people do not use it or similar applications. They want little thumb keyboards.

Now hold on a sec - those of us SlashDot faithful are not representative of the average Palm user. But if you look at your sister or boss or the guy on the train, very few of them like or bothered to learn Graffiti.

Oh well.

Re:People don't want Graffiti, Jot and so on (3, Interesting)

drivers (45076) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075107)

That's funny, my mom, my sister, and my boss (and I) all seem to use grafitti on our Palm computers just fine. My 4 year old niece uses the popup keyboard though. I'm not making this up.

Good (2)

mschoolbus (627182) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074838)

I am guessing Graffiti sucks more than if they would have tried to interpret our normal style of writing, I am glad that is gone!

Almost there (1)

PD (9577) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074839)

I don't have a Palm because I used to have a Newton, and I got attached to the handwriting recognition. Now that grafitti is going, Palm is looking more attractive to me. The only thing that I need now is a little more power.

goddanm iit! (5, Funny)

frenetic3 (166950) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074842)

wr:tng in graff1ti was so guick, 4ccurete and oonveniemt!

whot th3 fsck am i goin;;;;: to do nuw? :P

That might have been funny... (0)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074919)

If you had remembered the Palm has a seperate area for numbers and letters, or even studied a little the common misinterpritations it had...

As it is it just makes it look like you can't type.

Re:That might have been funny... (1)

frenetic3 (166950) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074965)

yes, after posting i realized this pedantic note. i'm sure you won't be the last to point that out *sigh*.

on the other hand, i beg to differ -- my palm comes up with some crazy ass misinterpretations.. honestly, who remembers to put the little wing after the V?

-fren

Re:That might have been funny... (2)

finkployd (12902) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075030)

It is easier to make a V by drawing it right to left, then you don't need the little wing at the end (seriously, try it)

Finkployd

Re:That might have been funny... (1)

MarkGriz (520778) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075071)

"... honestly, who remembers to put the little wing after the V?"

You don't need the wing if you write it backwards.

Sorry to be such a killjoy. (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075082)

I was just feeling depresed that Grafitti was going away as I rather liked the system...

As for me, I mostly get "G" instead of "Q", and for the longest time it took me several tries every time I wanted a "9".

I think the funniest thing about grafitti is now when I write by hand I always write a grafitti "y". I just can't help it.

Just when... (1)

Scalli0n (631648) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074851)

Just when I buy a frigging Zire, they go and change it all! I admit it guys, it's my fault. Whenever I buy anything, it gets discontinued or jacked up.

Why remove code? (1)

i.r.id10t (595143) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074855)

Why is it that with new versions (of just about anything, not necessarily just in this instance) do they remove old features and replace them? Wouldn't it be easier to leave the old code in and add the new code, and then have a user preference as to which input system to use?

Re:Why remove code? (5, Interesting)

pavera (320634) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074867)

Because they lost a patent infringement case,
they either have to pay lots of money or remove the feature entirely.
This is not by choice, they are being forced to do this.

Re:Why remove code? (1)

Dionysus (12737) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074915)

In this instance, it might be because they want to stop having to continue paying royalties.

Re:Why remove code? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5075042)

Maybe you could read the article before you post such a stupid comment.

Re:Why remove code? (1)

espresso_now (219443) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075048)

Why is it that with new articles, posters never bother to read the fine article? Or the headline for that matter?

Darn. (2, Insightful)

andynms (564072) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074875)

I was actually starting to like Graffiti.
Any chance anyone will ever resurrect the Newton's handwriting recognition engine? It was actually starting to get good near the end, before Jobs killed it.
Well, hey, if I got used to the Newton and Graffiti, I should be able to get used to something else...

I suspect that a public outcry is in the works... (5, Interesting)

$$$$$exyGal (638164) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074880)

I can only imagine people hording old palms, and riots ensuing. Remember when Coke II came out? Some dude stored a 1000 or so cases of coke in his garage, it was a media frenzy, and then finally, "Coca Cola Classic" was born.

I realize this is different because it is a legal switch rather than a "taste" switch. But that may give the public all the more reason to protest the change. Will people really give a darn? I wonder.

--naked [slashdot.org]

Re:I suspect that a public outcry is in the works. (4, Funny)

CaffeineAddict2001 (518485) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075021)

I bet that transition wasn't half as bad as when coke switched out the cocaine.
"Coca Cola Oldschool"

i will miss graffiti (2)

u19925 (613350) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074881)

i have been using palm since 1999. last year, i bought pocket-pc and after six months, got rid of it. i didn't like two things about it: 1) not good at recognizing handwriting (it took me a day to learn graffiti; however, six months later, i couldn't master block letter writing). 2) too much windows cluttering. The reason, I bought pocket-pc in the first place was audio record-playback functionality. if palm gets rid of graffiti, maybe, my next upgrade would be a pocket-pc.

Mandatory Reference (5, Interesting)

johnalex (147270) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074883)

OK, someone had to say it, so I will:

Graffiti never held a candle to the Newton's handwriting recognition. I know; I used both.

The Newton recognized my handwriting, something that my wife rarely does. I use Graffiti on my Handspring Visor now, but I really miss my Newton. Well, actually, it was the taxpayers' Newton, since testing it was part of my campus job.

Just the same, I have to wonder if the legal eagles haven't killed another good product with their new emphasis on IP issues. Graffiti wasn't the best, but it was good enough for what I have to do.

EAT UP MARTHA (-1, Offtopic)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074946)

n/t

I HATE graffiti (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5074889)

Stop fucking other people's property.

Go out, get a job, save money, buy a houswe - then trash it yourself.

Mindless homeboy scribbling dick heads.

The FLOOD! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5074891)

Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments insteadof starting new threads. Read otheduplicating what has already been said.Use a clear subject that describes what yourmessage is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (Youcan read everything, even moderated posts,byadjusting your threshold on the UserPreferences Page) Problems regarding accounts orcomment postingshoduplicating what has already been said.Use a clear subject that describes what yourmessage is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (Youcan read everything, even moderated posts,byadjusting your threshold on the UserPreferences Page) Pduplicating what has already been said.Use a clear subject that describes what yourmessage is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (Youcan read everything, even moderated posts,byadjusting your threshold on the UserPreferences Page) Problems regarding accounts orcomment postingshould be sent to CowboyNduplicating what has already been said.Use a clear subject that describes what yourmessage is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (Youcan read everything, even moderated posts,byadjusting your threshold on the UserPreferences Page) Problems regarding accounts orcomment postingshould be sent to CowboyNeal.
eal.
roblems regarding accounts orcomment postingshould be sent to CowboyNeal.
uld be sent to CowboyNeal.
r people's messages before posting yourown to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.Use a clear subject that describes what yourmessage is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (Youcan read everything, even moderated posts,byadjusting your threshold on the UserPreferences Page) Problems regarding accounts orcomment postingshould be sent to CowboyNeal.

I do believe this is a good thing... (2)

MarcoAtWork (28889) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074892)

I'm way, way, way faster entering text with one of the various freeware Qwerty screen-based keyboards (VirtualKB is great) and am toying with moving directly to one of those silkscreen thingies you can put on the graffiti area to type Qwerty there.

Graffiti is definitely not all it's cracked up to be (at least for me) while I can write the graffitis fast enough, I find it extremely disconcerting to write characters on top of each other: it goes against many years of learned behaviour (handwriting) and for this reason I don't think it'll ever feel natural. I also read somewhere an article that was talking about exactly this phenomenon.

IMHO there is no reason for graffiti/graffiti-like stuff to exist: for pdas use a Qwertyish keyboard (on screen or hardware) for tablet PCs just use standard handwriting recognition software.

Son of a... (0, Redundant)

swasson (639367) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074894)

What? No more graffiti? My homies are gonna be pissed!!!

Re:Son of a... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5074961)

(Score: -1, Predictable joke)

What is Xerox going to do with it? (4, Interesting)

core plexus (599119) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074903)

Are they just going to sit on the patent, or do something with it? Anyone know?

Pentagon Seeks Robots-Prize is $1 Million [xnewswire.com]

Excellent Slashdot timing (3, Funny)

panurge (573432) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074906)

I was about to buy a handheld. Now I can put it off again until Graffiti 2 for Palm rev. whicheverVersionIsTheFirstNotToSuck.

Thank you Xerox, from the depths of my bank account.

How do I "Jot"? (5, Informative)

Plutor (2994) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074909)

Check out CIC's web site for information [cic.com] on JOT, as well as a listing [cic.com] of the symbols.

Re:How do I "Jot"? (2, Interesting)

Dielectric (266217) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075009)

Man, comparing that to Graffiti, I'll take Jot. The characters seems a bit more natural. I constantly screw up X and K. Stupid Graffiti, I shouldn't have to change my behavior to fit my handheld; this has been my biggest pet peeve with the Palm.

Of course, I got spoiled with the Newton. Don't listen to the detractors, they probably never used a late-model Newton for any length of time. Once it learned (!) your handwriting, it was all gravy. That thing kicked some serious butt. I used a MP2100 for years, then had to join the rest of the world with a Palm-OS piece of junk. There's nothing as elegant as the Newton interface today. Freaking work of art.

ga! grafiti is so so so much better (4, Interesting)

MikeLRoy (246462) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074913)

Having used both grafiti and jot extensively, i find jot much less reliable. White it may be more me then the software, grafiti tends to make less mistakes, whereas i have to correct far more in jot. Oh well.

That, and all my profs have learned to read grafiti, er, my handwriting.

It's a good thing (3, Interesting)

hawkestein (41151) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074918)

I think this is definitely a good thing. I've been using various incarnation of Palms for about 4 years now, and I vastly prefer Jot to Graffiti. Jot was one of the only commercial software products I ever purchased for my Palm. It's much more intuitive than Graffiti, though I don't think it's any faster.

The only difficulty I've had with Jot is getting it to do the underscore properly. But othe

Re:It's a good thing (3, Interesting)

Nomad7674 (453223) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075032)

I am definitely in the same boat. My first PDA was a Philips Nino which I bought because after using both in a store, I found the Nino SO MUCH easier to write on. JOT works with the way I write and think, and has always been a lot easier to use than Grafiti. When I upgraded from my Nino to a Palm IIIc, I decided to try out Grafiti but after a month of use decided Grafiti was simply not worth the effort. I bought CIC's version for the Palm, and found myself suddenly productive again.

Many say that JOT is slower than Grafiti and they have a point. A well-practiced Grafiti user will outpace a well-practiced JOT user every time... but the number of well-practiced Grafiti users I know can be counted on one finger. All the rest use the on-screen keyboard instead. But every person I know who installed JOT uses it daily.

They should use MY desktop suggestions! (-1, Troll)

Booie Paog (640418) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074931)

i have been trying to tell everyone of my desktop genius ideas, and no one will pay attention to me!
homos! retards! hippies! idiots!

i think Palm should give me a job. i could be head of their user-interface department and then people will
listen to my ideas! like my time-machine desktop rewind idea! it's so smart! and we'll change Palm to
run Amiga's OS! i hope they have lots to eat there, because man i love to eat.

hopefully they will see how experienced i am! i have THOUSANDS of desktop background tiles! i wrote
a shell script once, too! boy will they be impressed. and if they're not, then their a bunch of ass-ramming
jerks who are retards! fuck them! i bet they like porn! i don't, that's for SURE. never did.

Cheers,

Booie J. Paog
Project Founder and Head Jackass, PROPAGANDA Desktop Enhancement Dweeby
Useless Background Tiles

Major trouble for Palm (2)

mmoncur (229199) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074941)

If this is true (and I'm still waiting for confirmation) it's a major blow for Palm. My wife has gone through three different Palm machines and knows graffiti as well as handwriting - tell her she'll have to learn a new system and suddenly Windows CE starts to look better.

Re:Major trouble for Palm (1)

EdFromBrighthand (640852) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075043)

> I'm still waiting for confirmation Here's the press release: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030113/sfm054_1.html

Do it the cellphone way (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5074947)

555444668899 77778822557777

What about PocketPC's? (4, Interesting)

detritus. (46421) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074949)

I can remember when playing with a iPaq store demo and playing around with the handwriting recognition settings (I can't remember what I selected), I was able to write in grafitti with great accuracy. How can Microsoft/Compaq get away with that?

Jot isnt so great (2)

briancnorton (586947) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074955)

I didnt even realize that I was using Jot on my iPaq, but I can make the statement that it's not that great. In fact, it kind of sucks. I dont write a whole lot on my ipaq (no wireless dammit) but if I did, I would MUCH rather have a keyboard or virtual keyboard than use pen input. By this same logic, I dont see the tablet PC being of much benefit to me.

Computers Teaching UI to Humans = Bad (1, Interesting)

Toe, The (545098) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074963)

Whenever humans have to train themselves to adapt to a computer UI, this is an example of poor design.

When *consumers* have to learn a new language just to be able to use a consumer device, that's just downright brain-damaged.

And don't tell me computers can't recognize handwriting. The ortiginal PDA, Apple's overpriced Newton, could not only read plain handwriting, it could interpret it. You would scribble: "Meet with Bob Friday" and it would find all the Bobs in your addressbook, ask which one you want, and confirm that you meen the next forthcoming Friday.

Years later the Palm can't even read plain ol text?

Oh, and Mac OS X 10.2 can read plain handwriting too. What is it about non-Apple products that make them so incapable of working for humans, instead preferring making humans work for them?

One would think that by now somebody would have figured out a way to do it for a consumer-priced device.

Re:Computers Teaching UI to Humans = Bad (4, Insightful)

drivers (45076) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075077)

Did you learn to type to use the computer?

Re:Computers Teaching UI to Humans = Bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5075093)

So I guess that means the keyboard is an example of poor design?

Re:Computers Teaching UI to Humans = Bad (4, Insightful)

aengblom (123492) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075099)

Whenever humans have to train themselves to adapt to a computer^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H UI, this is an example of poor design

Ah yes, the failure of the pen and keyboard. Some of of the silliest inventions.

One would think that by now someone could make a device that read minds--but apparently that is hard.

(And probably not desirable anyway. "Computer: I wanted a spreadsheet not a girl spreading on the sheets. I don't care what I was thinking this is my office! )

Re:Computers Teaching UI to Humans = Bad (5, Funny)

SuiteSisterMary (123932) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075103)

"The only 'intuitive interface' is the nipple. EVERYTHING else is learned."

Not that bad for Palm (2)

Jeffrey Baker (6191) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074975)

I see a few notes here about how this is great for PocketPC and really bad for Palm. Well here's a tidbit for you: Palm OS rocks, and PocketPC sucks. I went shopping for a replacement PDA yesterday and I found that the PalmOS 5 machines from Palm and Sony were outstanding. I also looked at PocketPC devices from HP, Toshiba, and T-Mobile. CompUSA had several models. Every single PocketPC had crashed with a message "device.exe [presumably part of the core] has executed an illegal instruction" blah blah blah. The power of Windows in your pocket!

LOTR based Graffiti (5, Funny)

Shadow Wrought (586631) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074996)

Why not go with a Rune [tripod.com] based system for the LOTR fan base?

I use a palm everyday, and im getting sick of it. (1)

Sophrosyne (630428) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074997)

Graffiti is driving me crazy these days. It worked wonders when I first bought my Palm about a year ago, but now it seems to be slowly dying out on me. I hate those portable keyboards, and one of the reasons I bought a palm was so that I could operate in silence.
I am using an m125, and I would use a mini-keyboard like the one that was released for the m705 [palm.com] , the little black one that attaches to the bottom.
Does anyone have any suggestions for keyboard replacements for an m125?

Xerox patent on UNISTROKES? (5, Insightful)

steveha (103154) | more than 11 years ago | (#5074998)

If I understood the article, Xerox has a patent on the very idea of a recognition system that uses just one stroke per character.

This sounds to me like another bogus patent. If something is very easy to re-invent independently, it shouldn't be patentable. I thought patents were supposed to be non-obvious.

Hmmm. We want to recognize letters. Our big problem is that it's hard to tell which stroke belongs to which character. Hey... many characters are only one stroke; why not make a simplified alphabet so they ALL are only one stroke?

I mean, it's a little bit more complicated than using XOR to draw a cursor, but not that much.

P.S. Xerox may score a few bucks from this, but that is all they can manage. Palm doesn't really need Graffiti anymore.

When the PalmPilot first came out, it really did need Graffiti; handwriting recognition on an 8 MHz CPU with a tiny amount of RAM needs all the help it can get. Now, with much more computing power in the latest Palm devices, a trainable system that adapts to the user's writing is probably the right thing.

Well this sucks. (4, Interesting)

Deathlizard (115856) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075012)

Graffiti was a really nice system for the palmpilot. it was easy, simple and fast. I'm afraid of what the newer Graffiti would be like simply because I've used the pocketpc equivilant and even though it's similar to graffiti in many ways, the places where it is different make it a real pain. not to mention is seemed to be a lot slower than graffiti simply because it required more stroke in some of the characters.

Frankly, If Graffiti can be sued, what stops xerox from suing CIC for their Jot character recgonition? especially when unistrokes looked nothing like graffiti and still won.

Screw Palm... (1)

swasson (639367) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075045)

... support open source by taking 10% of the price of a Palm(c) Tungsten (currently $499) and donate it to the open source project of your choice.

with the exception of (3, Interesting)

night_flyer (453866) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075067)

x t i & j what other characters are out there that cannot be written in a single stroke? (think cursive here)

I've got an even better idea (4, Insightful)

The Evil Couch (621105) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075068)

USB port and ship it with a roll-up keyboard. having to learn a new way of writing just for a product to work is asinine.

contrary to some people's belief, knowing graffiti doesn't elevate you into an exclusive club. it simply means that you're willing to put up with corporate work-around solutions instead of demanding something that actually fits your needs.

Jot Usability? (5, Informative)

webword (82711) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075080)

I know that Graffiti had very reasonable usability [yorku.ca] : "After one minute studying the Graffiti reference chart, about 86% accuracy is attainable. Following five minutes of practice, accuracy improves to about 97%. Without further practice, users demonstrate total retention after a one-week lapse, with accuracy holding at around 97%."

How does the usability of Jot compare? Any ideas? Personally, if I am entering text, I like to use a thumb keyboard (e.g., Blackberry). One more thing, I guess that Jot 2.0 is available as shareware [palmflying.com] . It gets good ratings, but I haven't seen any "real" usability research.

QuickWrite was a good alternative (2, Informative)

manastungare (596862) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075081)

Ken Perlin [nyu.edu] from NYU developed a great alternative, QuickWrite [nyu.edu] that, inspite of a steep learning curve, can be faster for experts to use. Palm should have adopted QuickWrite instead -- but perhaps they wanted to remain newbie-friendly.

One stroke? (2)

cybermace5 (446439) | more than 11 years ago | (#5075108)

Supposedly, Jot uses two strokes for some of the letters, and therefore escapes patent infringement.

I just grabbed my Visor and wrote "x". Two strokes.
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