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IFPI Employee Describes P2P Sabotage Activities

michael posted more than 11 years ago | from the no-tunes-for-you dept.

Music 431

Maxwell'sSilverLART writes "From The Reg: Matt Warne, an employee of the international version of the RIAA, admitted that he helped the organization spread garbage and random noise on the P2P networks. Apparently, they used multiple DSL connections to present the appearance of separate users, disguising the origins of the files. His group has stopped, but he claims several of the big record companies are still doing it themselves. And here I thought all of their garbage came on CD."

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wow (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102058)

did I get first post??

YOU DID IT! (-1)

YOU DID IT! (630541) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102234)

Congratulations! You got first post!


In Soviet Russia (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102059)

P2P Sabotage Activities describe YOU!!!

Ask Dr. Fuck (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102065)

Dear Dr. Fuck,

The other day, when I was pleasuring my anus with a cactus stem, I accidently cut myself down there and now my dirt box is quite infected. It really hurts when I poop! What should I do? Ive been giving myself daily hydrogen peroxide enemas, and although the searing pain is exquisite, my cuts don't really seem to be getting any better. What should I do?

Bleeding Rectum in Phoenix, AZ

Dear Bleeding Rectum,

Cactus stem fetishization has come along way since the "Barrel Cactus Boys" made it famous in the Tijuana of yesteryear. But it's a dangerous world out there, and that's why you should always sand down the cactus needles before sticking them up your ass. Otherwise, you could get rabies, AIDS, or tiny gnomes that live in your pee-pee hole and yank off your ball-hairs while you're trying to sleep.

If you have been having unsafe sex with a cactus, I suggest you consult with a physician immediately.


Dr. Fuck

In Soviet Russia...... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102069)

P2P garbage YOU.....

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102071)


Dear hypocrits. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102075)

All everyone does on this site is bash MS. However, you are all willing to attend the site that BLASTS 1/3 screen size MSDN ads every second hit. wtf?!

slashdot has gone down hill. for me.

Dear dumbfuck (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102134)

We are using Mozilla and don't see the ad. Plonk.

Oh NO! (0)

werty (245510) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102076)

If the record companies die does that mean no more crappy music being shoved down my throat?

What they want, what they need (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102077)


Gay men.

Gay muscular men with thick, fat cocks.

That's what the janitors need this weekend.

Of course, you could link to the *article*... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102078)

The actual article [] .

Whats wrong with garbage?? (3, Funny)

Bowie J. Poag (16898) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102080)

Garbage isn't so bad...their lead singer is hawt... Mee-yow!


Shirley Manson is all that (1, Offtopic)

burgburgburg (574866) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102107)

And a bag of potato chips.

Make that two bags of potato chips.

Re:Shirley Manson is all that (3, Funny)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102154)

Shirley Manson is all that

Her sister Marilyn is really hot too.

Re:Whats wrong with garbage?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102108)

I have to agree there.

Just block 'em at the firewall. (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102084)

Here is a list of P2P Unfriendly IP's you can block.

OverPeer: 160.127.255
R anger:
MediaForce:65.1 92.0.0-
MediaForce: 255.255
MediaDe fender:
MPAA: 28-
NetPD:207.155.1 28.0-
NetPD: 5.255
Vidius:207 .155.128.0-
GAIN(spyware):64.94.89 .0-
GAINCME(spyware): 5.247.255
GAINCME(spyware): 255
RI AA: .32.50

I get dozens of hits to each IPchains rule everyday when I am using P2P.

Re:Just block 'em at the firewall. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102181)

Is there a way to automate the unfriendly IPs discovery? I mean a centralized service.
Ok, One could query the whois database servers by hand but an automated method would do better.
BTW Thank you for the list!

Re:Just block 'em at the firewall. (5, Interesting)

Uninvited Guest (237316) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102200)

Where did this list come from? How can I verify its legitimacy? Even more important: how can I discover new addresses which should be blocked?

Re:Just block 'em at the firewall. (1)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102253)

Sure, you can block those, but you can bet that 99.99% of the people using P2P apps won't, because they won't know how or won't care. Soon enough, they'll have all the bogus content, and then you'll have to start blocking idiot p2p users IPs as well. Then the RIAA wins.

In Soviet Russia (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102086)

The P2P networks sabotage you!

Yeah (4, Funny)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102089)

I've come across some of this stuff, mostly I got mp3s that were the right length, but just silence rather than what the file was named.

They find their way into my playlist if I am not careful, and when I am using it for background music while intensively coding I usually don't notice when one comes up, but it scares the shit out of me if a really loud song comes on after it. :)

Re:Yeah (1)

k3v0 (592611) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102214)

i found songs of similar but not perfect length that were just loops of the chorus of the song or the first verse looped for a few minutes

Re:Yeah (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102216)

That's what you get for pirating John Cage!

slowdowncowboyslowdowncowboyslowdowncowboyslowdo wncowboyslowdowncowboyslowdowncowboyslowdowncowboy slowdowncowboyslowdowncowboyslowdowncowboyslowdown cowboy

Re:Yeah (1, Interesting)

MullerMn (526350) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102300)

Erm, wouldn't an MP3 of silence (of any length) compress down to almost nothing? If not then it'd be a pretty shit compression algorythm....

Define "garbage and random noise" (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102090)

With shit groups like Powerman5000 and Rob Zombie out there, does someone really need to waste time adding to the noise and garbage?

Minimal Techno (1)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102188)

for real taste of random noise check this [] out

The basterds! (4, Funny)

Chocolate Teapot (639869) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102091)

Matt Warne, an employee of the international version of the RIAA, admitted that he helped the organization spread garbage and random noise on the P2P networks
He shared his Brittney Spears mp3s.

Bastards too! (1)

Chocolate Teapot (639869) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102119)


Shecky (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102095)

Moo! I'm first! Woohooo! Moooooo!

Too little, too late (0)

PhysicsGenius (565228) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102096)

First of all, this doesn't really do much to prevent sharing. I FTP MP3s (and even Oggs) back and forth all the time.

But worse, they are too late. P2Ps are already almost useless. I'm using gtk-gnutella right now and I have stuff in my download list that's been there for literally WEEKS. It's impossible to find anything and even impossibler to get anything you do find. Not because of the RIAA, but because of the leeches and idiots out there.

Re:Too little, too late (1)

YouMakeMeSoANGRY (641079) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102239)

I assume that a leech is someone who feeds off of P2P without giving anything back to it. Rather like you are a leech to the music industry. "I can't get the music I want for free because someone else is doing it first". Boo Hoo. If you don't like someones song enough to buy it, you don't like it enough to dowenload it for free.

Nothing wrong with it (4, Insightful)

aridhol (112307) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102100)

Why should the music industry be prohibited from putting junk on the network? If the user gets frustrated enough when trying to download music illegally (and yes, copyright infringement is illegal), maybe they'll actually spend money to buy music.

Why is there no great uproar when a private user puts misnamed files on the network? Or when software goes online? Why do we save our complaints for when the legal owners do something against the spirit of the system, rather than when someone else does something against the law?

copyright infringement is illegal (1)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102128)

Maybe in your world, but in my world it isn't.
This is called civil disobedience.

Though I'd rather take from people willing to give.

Re:copyright infringement is illegal (5, Insightful)

aridhol (112307) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102250)

Hmm...I just looked at the definition of civil disobedience [] :
[R]efusal to obey governmental demands or commands
OK, so you're refusing to obey the law (meaning that yes, you admit that it's illegal but you don't think it should be).
means of forcing concessions from the government
Here's where I don't beleive that you're practicing civil disobedience. See, you're breaking the law from the privacy of your own home. This means that the government doesn't see that you're doing it, so you're not making much of a statement. You're not going to acheive anything doing it this way, and you know it. This makes it not civil disobedience, but regular lawbreaking.

If you really feel that it's civil disobedience, get a bunch of people together, set up a network in a public place (rented hall, maybe), and download there. Make sure the media is there, and hand out pamphlets telling what you're doing. Get your message out there. Face the risks of being arrested.

Until you do something like this, I say you are not practicing civil disobedience, but plain old lawbreaking.

Re:Nothing wrong with it (4, Insightful)

thelexx (237096) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102185)

"Why do we save our complaints for when the legal owners do something against the spirit of the system, rather than when someone else does something against the law?"

Simple. In all cases of them being deceptive, it's just that, pure deception. With the assumption of guilt on the part of everyone who might download. Not all cases of downloads are illegal however.

Re:Nothing wrong with it (2, Interesting)

aridhol (112307) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102278)

Not all cases of downloads are illegal however.
Explain this to me. If I recorded music and sold it, without any provision for download, when would it be legal for you to download it? Why should I not be allowed to make fakes of my own music and put them online?

Who's complaining? (5, Insightful)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102191)

Why should the music industry be prohibited from putting junk on the network?
No reason they should be prohibited, and I haven't seen a single poster suggest that they should be. This is news (sort of) because it's moderately interesting, not because it's some horrible atrocity.

Re:Nothing wrong with it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102236)

You are assuming that all music that is copyrighted is illegal to download. I own a very large CD collection, why should they make it a PITA for me to enqueue a bunch of albums I own a liscense to listen to for download?

I could make the digital copy myself, but why when there are services out there that provide digital copies already made? Why should it be morally or ethically right (since legally, there is no reprecussion) for them to attempt to sabatoge me exercising my right to have a digital copy?

Re:Nothing wrong with it (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102251)

I thought vandalism was also illegal you turd!
Just in case you didn't notice the contradiction & hypocrisy in your argument, mental midget.

Re:Nothing wrong with it (1)

aridhol (112307) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102297)

Where is the vandalism in this case? Are you saying that it is vandalism for a copyright owner to make a fake copy of his own work and put it on the P2P networks?

Re:Nothing wrong with it (3, Interesting)

echucker (570962) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102290)

If they're going to mess with files, at least be clever about it. Take a lesson from the Barenaked Ladies' book - Take a legit file, and implant funny ads for upcoming releases in them. "Pinch Me" off of their Maroon album is a perfect example of this. Do a search for the track on your favorite P2P network, and you're sure to notice that some people note "no ads" in the title.

I actually prefer listening to those versions now over the stock ones.

Easy to Believe (1)

floppy ears (470810) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102105)

The alternative explanation for the persistence of this noise material is that users are extremely inattentive, and that's difficult to believe.

It's pretty easy for me to believe.

I use P2P primarily to check out new bands. Often I will just download the song that most people have available, hoping it will be a representative tune.

As often as not, however, the most widely available tune has some problem, like being misnamed for example.

This can't be caused by intentional poisoning. Rather, people are lazy and just leave the crappy files sitting in their download folders.

Also in the news (0, Funny)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102106)

An AC describes how he posted random crapfloods and links on a popular, yet pointless, tech discussion website.

Haven't run in it yet... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102109)

I was a fearce Napster leech, then AudioGalaxy, and now KaZaa Lite. I have only run into this garbage once or twice, in about 20 gigabytes (on a dialup) in the last few years. KaZaa Lite does allow you to listen to partially download files but if the bastrads are smart, they will screw up the last verse.

Still, I do not doubt the RIAA/MPAA and other forces of darkness are trying to poison the Net. I imagine worst yet, they will be put somekind of marker in files so that they could do some tracing of some kind.


Re:Haven't run in it yet... (1)

k3v0 (592611) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102152)

I ran into this more on audiogalaxy. now if i'm surfing P2P i sort by file size and go for the biggest size. i dont think i've encountered this yet off of AG

Re:Haven't run in it yet... (1)

zjbs14 (549864) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102175)

You mean like them putting a file on the net with a spiked URL in one of the id3 tags that goes to a server that is logging when it gets a hit to that URL? So when your new cool player tries to pull up that page it's looging your IP?

Nahh, never happen...

I don't see anything wrong with this. (5, Insightful)

thinkliberty (593776) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102111)

I don't see anything wrong with this. If it makes it harder to pirate the music and it isn't a DOS against the network or another person. So what? If the copyright owners want distribute blank songs or garbage songs on p2p networks. Let them do it. It would also be interesting to find out if they paid the artist for using their name on a product they are distributing.

They have a right, in a way (5, Insightful)

image (13487) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102113)

Look, as much as I resent the RIAA, I have to say that they have a total right to fill up P2P networks with bogus files that look like copyrighted material.

What, you are not able to pirate a copy of some new album? Poor baby. Pay for it. You _really_ are ripping off the artist if you steal it. Yes, you are also ripping of the RIAA (which I don't care about). But don't complain that your organized theft ring is being hampered by the rightful owners of that property.

I despise the RIAA and how it treats their artists. But for the love of all that is right, don't *steal* in reaction. That is certainly not going to make the artists lives better.

Buy from alternative record labels. Go see your friends bands live. Write your own music. Read a book. Play with your computer. Make out with your girlfriend. Or, if you really want that album, pay for it. Or don't and boycott the bad labels. *That* choice is yours.

Re:They have a right, in a way (1)

thelexx (237096) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102217)

"What, you are not able to pirate a copy of some new album? Poor baby. Pay for it."

Suppose for a moment that I already have. What is the justification now?

Re:They have a right, in a way (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102263)

No you didn't. It'd be much easier to rip it using cdex than download it from p2p.

Re:They have a right, in a way (1)

qoncept (599709) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102246)

I agree that we really have no right to complain when the RIAA tries to hinder our ability to get free music, but whether doing it in the first place is right or not...?

Enough people will provite enough profit for the artists for as long as I can see in the future. So I don't feel bad when I download, say a) a Tool mp3 since they feel justified in not only a $40 ticket to their live show, but also $40 for their fucking hats at that show. b) Datathief, because they'd be happy enough to know that I'm listening to their music and don't care about the money.

If I steal a candybar at the store, a potential sale is gone. They can no longer sell that candybar to someone else. If I boycott nothing records and go ahead and download the new Nine Inch Nails album, they are not out a sale. I got free music, they lost nothing. And I won't even go in to cds I actually did buy because I heard the mp3. Stealing music (or anything digital, for that matter) =/ stealing tangible items.

Re:They have a right, in a way (2, Insightful)

RackinFrackin (152232) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102259)

You make good points, but also one error. Breaking copyright law is not stealing - it is copyright infringement. There's a huge difference.

Re:They have a right, in a way (1)

Ryan Amos (16972) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102269)

So the RIAA is stupid. All that happens now is people just borrown their friends copy and burn a bit copy (and yes, this usually will work even with those stupid copy-protected CDs) and listen to them. That was always the main source of piracy anyway. Besides, IRC always has been a better means of getting whole albums anyway. Chan ops will nix bots serving bad files.

Re:They have a right, in a way (1)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102275)

Look, as much as I resent the RIAA, I have to say that they have a total right to fill up P2P networks with bogus files that look like copyrighted material.

And we have every right to take note of their actions and implement countermeasures. And so it goes.

Re:They have a right, in a way (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102291)

Make out with your girlfriend.

Your new here aren't you?

Metallica is in on this too... (5, Funny)

Tofino (628530) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102117)

Everything Metallica has released since Master of Puppets has been garbage :).

Re:Metallica is in on this too... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102220)

Actually ...And Justice For All (the album after Master of Puppets) is a masterpiece of Heavy Metal genre (just check out the bass-drum work of Lars). Even the Black album had some good songs. Everything after the Black album was just some kind of limp-wristed avantgarde travesty....

My 2 cents - and don't tell me this is off-topic

Isnt this what we were expecting all along? (3, Insightful)

josh crawley (537561) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102130)

As an ethical issue, downloading songs we havent paid for is just plain stealing. And they tried to shut down the source (the transfer tool and servers), byt the judge bitchslapped them down.

What choice are we leaving them? They're spreading corrupted files. It's not like they're ping flooding every user. They're just sending what the USER REQUESTS.

I'm relieved that's all the Riaa are doing. After all, protecting the groups' rights are what they're about.

ALWAYS stealing? (1)

Uninvited Guest (237316) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102272)

If I may a copy of something I bought to give to my friend, is that stealing? It used to be covered under fair use, especially since neither of us makes any money on it. If I were to share the same content with just my friend over a network using an IM or ICQ or FTP or eMail, that's pretty much the same transaction in another form. If I share that same content with a number of people who I don't know quite so well, how did that suddenly become stealing?

EULA? (5, Insightful)

Tar-Palantir (590548) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102132)

I haven't read any P2P app EULAs, but I wonder if some of them might try including a clause that "You agree by using this Software that You will not attempt to degrade the effectiveness of the Network in any manner, including intentional distribution of flawed or nonsense files."

Now, IANAL, but it seems like the outcome of such an action would be positive for the geek community:
  • The RIAA might simply stop.
  • They might sue, and have EULAs ruled not binding (this would be negative in the sense that they could continue the monkey business, but good overall).
  • The P2P companies might take them to court and win. Wouldn't that be nice?

  • Anybody see why this wouldn't work (unless some clients failed to put the clause in)?

Re:EULA? (1)

Esion Modnar (632431) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102225)

IANAL, but couldn't any EULA associated with alleged illegal activities be considered non-binding? I could have you sign a contract stating that you will shoplift specific items from Kmart for me, but I could never have it legally enforced.

Please elaborate - curious IP traffic? (1)

jakedata (585566) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102140)

What sort of things are we talking about?

"Since Monday, we've also received a number of reports of some very curious IP traffic. If you're in a position to do so, can you please check your logs, so we can piece together the rest of this mystery?"

There is so much garbage in the logs nowadays that it is very difficult to pull out something significant. Of course, this is all according to plan.

Funny and true story (5, Funny)

Amsterdam Vallon (639622) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102142)

I actually e-mailed Richard Stallman a couple years ago when I realized a great way to spread the GNU message.

My question was whether disguising pro-GNU songs (such as these [] ) as Billboard Top 40 hits and sharing them on Peer 2 Peer networks was a "right" thing to do.

He suggested that I not do it, but did thank me for a good laugh.

This reminds me.. (5, Interesting)

Maeryk (87865) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102144)

I have been running Limewire, and has anyone else noticed that no matter WHAT you put in the search box, you nearly immediately get three hits back with exactly that title and an appropriate extension? One is a broken move file that just locks your player, and two others are pr0n teasers.. but that must be a large server with a fast pipe... because it consistant, and it is FAST.

Has anyone run into this with any of the other P2P clients, or is it just limewire specific?

(I would think that would be a better way to tie up the services anyway.. just have a remote server that responds to incoming searches with a couple of crap files. Get enough of them doing it, and the S/N ratio will get so screwed people will stop using it.)


obvious contradiction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102145)

And here I thought all of their garbage came on CD

This is the same "garbage" everyone is trying to download on the P2P networks, which must mean they like it, therefore it is not really garbage. Let me guess, you use the P2P networks to download legitimate mp3s from unsigned bands. I will never believe that. Let whoever on this board has *NO* illegal mp3s on their hardrives be the first to flame...

Right on (2, Interesting)

octalgirl (580949) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102155)

This guys quotes are right on, and I hope we see more and more people say this publicly:

Back in 1997 and 1998, the industry had the chance to develop online music services, he says. It saw what was coming. Which is true: at that time, the major labels were paralyzed by fear of online music and were downsizing accordingly, but refused to alter their business models, or extend into new areas.

"Once Napster came along," says Warne, "people got used to getting stuff for free. They've introduced Emusic but people just ask 'why isn't it free?' If they'd introduced it in 1998, they wouldn't have this problem,' he thinks.

MP3 song loops (1)

VictimlessChris (562438) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102162)

I've come across some junk mp3s, although most of it wasn't silence or junk. It was usually a legitimate portion of the song, just looped over and over again. It took an addition 30 seconds to realize, "Hey, I've been listening to the same sound pattern for 45 seconds now!". Not knowing how the song went helped this method a little more. The solution? A little more refined searching yielded the real song.

The Users are Worse (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102163)

You mean the users, right? The ones that encode using XING at 128kbit non-vbr and select swap stereo channels, 33.200kHz downsampling, 50% volume reduction, while ripping smack their CD-ROM drive so that there are up to 3 skips in the rip, and finally put in an ID-3 tag with title "Track 3".

Goebbels (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102164)

Why do Americans always have to nazi'fy Germans !? Kind of low, very low.

Well at least they hired some real engineers (2, Funny)

jj_johny (626460) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102166)

So somebody who does not like unauthenticated P2P networks is trying to jab them. Who would have thought that kind of activity could be going on the internet?!?!

I certainly didn't see it coming.

Next thing you are going to tell me is that those free weekly newspapers have lots of ads. Or that admins will put patches on their servers to protect them. Or that there are lots of naked pictures on the internet. Or that I am not the 14 girl I play in some chat rooms. (maybe I should use a different name?)

Another obviously stupid story about how anyone who can guess the end of most movies can guess about 75% of the stories that are going to be written on any subject or 75% of the stupid things that big organizations are going to do. Please something fresh. Please something that is news or that matters.

Strike Back (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102167)

All the P2P Companies has to do is add "Must Share Legit Files" to there Terms of Service and problems solved. Some activities of these groups ARE Illegal (The RIAA) and because of that, are no better then the Warez and Illegal file sharing.

Let's face facts, Warez is never going away, it's idiotic to try and control or regulate the net. Information SHOULD be free, members of the RIAA need to look at how they make money and seek some alternatives. I am a Ripper, I will say that now. Hate me if you want, but I can barely afford to keep my internet on, so is it right that I don't get the same opertunities as everyone else?

I'm a high schooler, I live in a single parent home and my Mom works 24/7, but I can't get a job without killing my grades and hence my future. I love working with computers, and plan on being a network specialist, but untill then, I will do whatever is nessacary to use the newest and greatest developing tools.

Hate me, agree with me, I don't care, what I do know, is that the internet and the world need change. Perhaps some Rippers and Warez scum, have a vision, not just stealing money from "Innocent" Companies.

Information should be free, if it was, our species would be better for it.

Shut the fuck up! (-1, Troll)

Mighty_Joe_Stalin (640589) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102279)

You're from a single parent home? You jackass! This is unacceptable. I find that women who decide to get banged in the ass, produce a shit-baby, and then have no husband to raise the child with are usually idiots. Now, this being said - your mother is an idiot. She shouldn't have had a child if her financial situation was not stable enough so that she could supply the newest and greatest "developing tools" to you. Poor people (i.e. stupid people) never plan ahead. They fuck around without any consideration of what could happen. This is why the poor's breeding must be regulated. Certainly, we will have a use for you as a cog in my factories but currently we've already got an excess of your size-cog. By this, I mean there are enough children produced by crack-whores such that we can safely prevent stupid (i.e. poor) people from breeding without any significant loss in productivity for our country.

Furthermore, you're a fucking moron. The warez scene, left unregulated, would be out of control. As pirating becomes easier and easier, software sales go down and then software ceases to be a viable industry. Product security and government intervention both need to occur in order to protect one of the largest industries in this nation. Poor people just talk about this nonsense about information being free because they can't afford anything. I'll tell you this; software is a product. It costs money to make and you should not steal it. Would you condone a hamburger being free? I mean, the species would be better off for it, right? Everyone would be fed, right? WRONG YOU FUCKING MORON!!! The system falls apart when no one has the incentive to produce anything because everyone gets the same. What you're babbling about, in your own little white trash way, is communism. And that is a failed system you worthless pea-brain. I spit on you and I spit on your mother. Stop stealing software. I spend lengthy hours working on software projects and I don't want some snot-nosed mistake to steal my work. I'm sure you don't even break the security features. You're just one of these leeches on the scene, you filthy child. I am pissed off right now.

Re:Strike Back (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102285)

You want free music, listen to the radio. [So this AC says while listening to some Garbage he didn't pay for-- never mind that he paid plenty for their other albums and imported singles... and boy did he pay when he went to see Garbage play the local club. $30, when the club is normally in the $15 range. Well, what the heck, best show I saw all year.]

Age old problem (1)

ch-chuck (9622) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102170)

The ancient question "Is there honor amongst thieves" - addresses the problems the unethical have going about their nefarious deeds, if someone messes with you, you can't call on the authorities to help. You may feel free to commit crimes, but if another criminal or a legitimate body interferes with you you just have to deal with it. If someone is attacking your system you can try to track them down and have their access revoked. If someone is spoiling your access to ripped cd's don't expect any help from honest, legitimate folks.

Avoid it with MD4 hashes to identify files (2, Insightful)

Guiri (522079) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102171)

This can be avoided using MD4 hashes and file sizes to uniquely identify files. Then on webpages people post links to well tested files which aren't garbage. All this is implemented in the edonkey network, and it's client emule [] , and "elinks" with valid files are posted in sites like Sharereactor []

I think all P2P apps should at least use MD4 hashes.

technology can beat this.... (3, Interesting)

smd4985 (203677) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102172)

once again, the IFPI and RIAA don't understand technology. given the infrastructure, p2p users could 'moderate' content up and down, and 'metamoderate' the moderations of other users (wonder where i've heard of those terms ;) ). but seriously, this technological solution would destroy poisoning efforts - as content and users were moderating, crappy content would be marked as 'to be ignored', and valid content would sift to the top of the heap.

It's so much easier ... (3, Interesting)

burgburgburg (574866) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102174)

playing little guerilla internet tricks rather than trying to understand/reform your industry. It's so much simpler to poison a well rather than figure out how to use it to make money and satisfy your "customers". It's so much more restful to sit around and blame "pirates" rather than addressing new technology and a changed customer base. It so much less tiring to pay off legislators to outlaw things that are inconvenient rather than putting together a business model that isn't 30 years out of date. Thanks IFPI.

How and why do they do it? (3, Funny)

On Lawn (1073) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102182)

When I do a search on gnutella, I used to get nothing but good information. Then about three months ago I started seeing files like (say I was searching for Avalanches)

Avalanches.mpg ...and so forth. Its pretty easy to avoid them, I don't think they are fooling anyone. I've never even clicked on them to see what they actually contained.

Wait, I did get snookered once. I was searching for "Camaflouge" the old Depech-mode sounding 80's band, which I haven't found a way to purchase the CD anyway. One of the files I pulled down turned out to be a really sweet rendition of "I Know that My Redeemer Lives". I suspect it was a fellow mormon reminding me of my values. But I liked the rendition so much that I kept it and play it.

(By the way, I own the Avalanches CD)

OnRoad: [] Hacking that which costs more money and is more deadly. (Its just a car-enthusiast site really)

And here I thought .... (2, Funny)

Savage-Rabbit (308260) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102183)

".... all of their garbage came on CD"

For the N'th time NO Record Company Garbage does not just come on CD, it comes on Video Tape, on DVD, Over cable, Over satelite and TV channles, Radio, The Internet ........

how well did it really work? (1)

Adler (131568) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102187)

Everytime I'm looking for something I can always find it, out of the 5 million GB or more available on Kazaa, gnutela, etc. thats available, the size of their operation would have to be enourmous to put a dent in file sharing, let alone stop a dedicated searcher from finding what they want. It's easy to set up a couple downloads at once, then check them when they're done to see if it's what they're looking for, it only takes a few seconds of a song to know if its what you wanted.

It's a waste of time in the end (5, Insightful)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102189)

P2P networks are already chock full of bad 'rips' full of pops and skips, or poorly/wrongly encoded (like 56k mono), misnamed songs, and so on.

Eventually the people who get 'into' it figure out who enjoys the same sort of music they do, and who tends to have quality mp3s on their sites. So the metalheads migrate together, and the hip hop fans, etc.

If they stray outside their 'clique' and get a garbage tune or two, they delete them and move on.

They also 'poison' newer, profitable releases, and I've found that a huge chunk of the P2P'ers are there for older or more obscure music. The fact that there's a garbage version of Britney Spears' latest floating around doesn't bother a Deadhead or someone looking for underground punk tunes in the least.

So, I suppose it could discourage a handful of 13 year old newbies if by luck they manage to get the garbage files the first time they try it. But it won't 'kill' the networks.

Why haven't I noticed? (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102190)

Seriously - they can't compete in terms of volume with absolutely everyone else on the network. The chance of a particular file being junk is quite low. If they want to do this, then fair enough. I don't really disapprove of their methods or their motives, except that it's a waste of time and money.

Re:Why haven't I noticed? (3, Insightful)

uncoveror (570620) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102281)

They want everyone to stop trading files, so they fill the networks with garbage. They want us to pay $20 for a CD that cost less than 1 to manufacture, and most of those are filled with garbage. Increasingly, they won't play in a computer because of "copy protection," when computers are they only player many of us have. How do we tell them we don't approve? By boycotting their products. [] Let CDs gather dust on store shelves.

This happned to me too, but .. (1)

JSkills (69686) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102192)

... the files I got played perfectly for a minute or two and then BZZZZZZT! a nasty placed electronic blast sound broke in right in the middle of the song. It was only in a batch of tunes I wanted to check out from a new band, just to make sure the song I'd heard on the radio wasn't a one-hit-wonder, before I spent the $ on getting the CD.

But hey, I can totally see why this method of poisoning the file is preferable to the music companies. It still allowed me to hear the entire song, but it made the song completely unacceptable for permanent use.

Honestly, I wouldn't even mind so much if this the way all downloadable music went, certainly if the alternative is to take it away completely. At least this way, we could tell if plunking down the bucks for the whole CD was worth it.

This, coupled with actually lowering the cost of CDs could possibly make everyone happy.

Let them go ahead and waste their resources (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102213)

People will eventually find files they're interested in, junk nothwithstanding. It just makes it a little bit more inconvinient.

be careful what you say about the riaa here (4, Funny)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102215)

be careful what you say about the riaa in your posts, or they'll use the same tactic here, on slashdot, and post random garbage comments to drown out the anti-riaa noise...

wait... garbage posts on slashdot!? it's already begun! how much are those trolls getting paid?!

It doesn't matter (1)

bigsexyjoe (581721) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102229)

Only good songs will propagate in the network. Kazaa has millions of users so the RIAA has a bit of a problem. The only way to get a significant amount of garbage on is to use a lot of accounts and be very persistant. I've never downloaded a junk file at all. All the other comments a read basically say the user found a couple junk files, not enough to ruin their experience.

I downloaded one such junk file (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5102235)

and it actually sounded better/more original than what I was looking for. Can somebody post the RIAA junk nodes so I can download some more muzak?

A quote from a Honest Artist (5, Interesting)

esorense (199722) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102245)

This might be a little offtopic but I thought it was interesting. I attended a Spoken Word Event by Henry Rollins. He discussed his views on P2P and downloading music off the net. His basic view was go ahead download my stuff. "I would rather have your time than your money," he said. Amen. I liked it so much I added it as my sig, sorry about the repetition.

Nice try.. but (1)

tezzery (549213) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102252)

Filling up p2p networks with silent/garbage mp3's might disappoint a number of users enough into not using/trusting the service, but at least a handful of them will try to find alternatives such as IRC networks and private FTP's (which is the only thing some people use).. Not everyone is using kazaa et all. Also, what about good-old trading with their friends? This is something the RIAA/IFPI will never be able to stop. Why? because people have been trading cassette tapes/records/mix tapes/cd's forever. It might slow it down, but the RIAA is still a few dozen people trying to stop a way bigger amount of users. They should really focus on one, single solution, rather than little problems. Until they do, expect music downloading/trading to keep spreading.

Garbage on CD? (1)

allanj (151784) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102258)

And here I thought all of their garbage came on CD

No, most of their *REAL* garbage comes out of the politicians they've bought over the years. That would probably be on Legal Paper I guess, but (hopefully!) not on CD.

co-evolving tactics... (1)

urbazewski (554143) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102260)

While the overall behavior of the RIAA (and judging from the article, of the IFPI) is despicable, it's interesting to see how the tactics of opposing groups co-evolve over time. The problem, mentioned time and time again, is that the overall strategy of the music industry is backward looking, seeking to preserve the advantages it enjoyed in the past rather than looking forward to see how it can put itself in the best position in the future.

I also thought the comment that one of the major mistakes that the industry made was letting napster et. al. create the expectation that music was/is, and hence should be, free (as in beer). Record companies resist lowering the price of CDs in part because they want to preserve the belief that $16.95 is a "reasonable" price.

The idea that people base their purchase decisions on what items "ought" to cost is almost completely at odds away with how consumer behavior is modeled by economists --- the analytical results that show how markets are efficient would go right in the trash under these assumptions about individual behavior. []

The RIAA should be charged for Terrorist actions (1)

MrJerryNormandinSir (197432) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102266)

Has anyone ever thought that the RIAA should be charged for this action? Because this action not only disrupts Pier to Pier, it also produces excess
traffic on the networks the servers are on and can
be classified as a deniel of service attack.

Someome should do something about this.

Advertising. (4, Insightful)

Moderation abuser (184013) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102268)

They should use p2p like a radio broadcast, put low bitrate encoded versions up for free, advertise sites where the high quality encodings can be purchased for $0.50.

Other P2P (1)

grub (11606) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102276)

eDonkey and eMule (which uses the eDonkey network), both linked to from ZeroPaid [] use a hash of the file itself for indexing. You can change the file name but as long as the file itself doesn't change there is no problem. It's unlikely that you get junk on the eDonkey network as long as you're getting a file with many sources.

sabatoge away RIAA! (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102286)

They cannot do anything to the p2p netowrk I use.. it's invite only to get access to it.. (Open Nap server system) we have approximately 200 people on it now, and have had to kick only 1 person.. they were acting like the typical leech.. so they are blackballed... simple really. we allow someone to join and become a part of the network for 10 days with no files to share. (mp3 and ogg only) and anyone that doesnt add new material usually get's a warning, but no warning have needed to be issued.. we have a HUGE amount of IUMA artist music on it.... the legal stuff :-)

nothing below 128kbps and users regularry weed out the crap so that you are used to getting a good copy the first time.

I know I'm not the first to organize a private P2P but I do know that's where the RIAA can do a damned thing... and unless you are on the invited list you cant get in it to spoil it.

Are there any good solutions? (1)

Vesuvius_2 (605271) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102287)

is there any way to 'solve' the problem? if P2P clients had EULAs (and lord knows I hate the things) that prohibited intentional fraud and misleading titles, would that in any way be helpful or would it instead just hinder those who want to make their own mixes and versions? could something like that be selectively enforced by the owners of P2P software? or does enforcing anything about usage and content on a P2P network make the software makers too liable if illegal media appears on the network? is there any way to prohibit or hinder this sort of behavior?

"I thought all of their garbage came on CD." (1, Insightful)

Junks Jerzey (54586) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102288)


You're essentially saying that every single band from the last 40 years that has any kind of name recognition is garbage. That's a lot of bands to be smacking down with one offhand comment. Sure, there's a lot of crap out there like Creed and Mariah Carey, but if you put together a list of all good bands that have had major label deals *ever*, then that's a mighty long list.

Why not (1)

mrtroy (640746) | more than 11 years ago | (#5102292)

P2P networks are great...people share their files and download other peoples shared files...
Its kinda special in a way. Like communism. In theory its perfect! Everyone shares and plays nice with one another, everyone has access to everyone elses files so what you have that I want, I can get! Likewise, what i have that you want, you can get!
Then of course in this utopia of piracy there will be some waves, hence where communism comes in. In a practical use, there are bastards that dont share their files. This makes a larger load on the people sharing their files, and less of them do so as well. Then there are bigger bastards that even fake share items so you wont ban them. Then there is the RIAA and such trying to screw things up. Not unlike communism, P2P is plagued by the few who dont do their share!
So enough of a rant of communism, lets get back to P2P. I guarentee the cost of the bandwidth those boys are using far outweighs their gains. Sure, everyone may have once or twice got a Britney Spears song that was all static, but that wont stop them from trying again! To compensate for the sheer number of users they would have to have mad boxens using mad bandwidth...not worthwhile
On a side note, what happened to just getting 0day albums from xdcc bots?
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