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Rosen Floats ISP Fee Idea -- Charge Everybody!

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the magnanimous dept.

Music 701

iconian writes "Hillary Rosen of RIAA wants to impose a type of fee to ISPs which in turn will be passed to all their customers indiscriminately to recoup supposed damages done by file-sharing. The RIAA considers downloading music illegally over the Internet to be the moral equivalence of stealing. I wonder then what is the moral equivalence of the RIAA taking realized cash from people who do not download music?"

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uhhhhhhhh (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109337)

Woooooooooo First Post biatch. ROBS is here!!!!

I can't believe the ideas the RIAA thinks they... (4, Insightful)

stev3 (640425) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109339)

I don't understand why the RIAA thinks they can get away with this kind of thing and NOT have more consumer-backlash! All of these different things the RIAA is doing (flooding networks with bad files, installing "worms" into servers, etc) is just making me less likely to purchase anything from the RIAA.

Re:I can't believe the ideas the RIAA thinks they. (5, Interesting)

KDan (90353) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109447)

They already have gotten away with that (them and the MPAA). They got a price markup on audio cassettes and video cassettes, to pay for the pirating, and no one complained about it.

Imho, this sort of thing just makes me doubly motivated to go out and download all the music I want. If I'm going to be paying a markup for it, might as well take advantage of it.

Oh, and I haven't bought a single music CD in the last 3 years. And I'm proud of it. Once a system is in place to pay money to artists directly, I'll put some money in towards the artists I like. Until then, I ain't paying squat.


Re:I can't believe the ideas the RIAA thinks they. (3, Interesting)

kedi (583806) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109485)

"just makes me doubly motivated to go out and download all the music I want"

and ths makes me triply motivated to rip and put up my CDs for download. until now I used to allow only 1 user at a time to download from me, but now I will make it 10. look for kazaa user oggfan.

Re:I can't believe the ideas the RIAA thinks they. (1, Interesting)

PFAK (524350) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109492)

I guess I can now download 40GB of MP3s, this is getting really annoying. I can't even rip any of the new albums I've bought, it's made me less motivated to buy albums and just download them from the internet.

Re:I can't believe the ideas the RIAA thinks they. (5, Insightful)

GimmeFuel (589906) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109475)

They think can get away with it because they have money to buy Congress. Why do they think this? Because it's true. They know from experience that they have enough money to make damn near any law they want to.

And consumer backlash about bad files, worms, etc? P2P is mainstream. Knowledge of what the **AAs are doing is not mainstream. I got some no-RIAA [] and no-MPAA [] stickers from ThinkGeek awhile back. Every single one of my friends (who all use P2P programs) had to ask what those 2 organizations stood for. Very few people who use P2P know about the **AAs and what they're doing, so how can they be pissed about it?

fp! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109340)


Re:fp! (1)

stev3 (640425) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109353)

beat ya, sucka :-P Anyways, I am seriously wondering WHY the RIAA is doing this? Do they think the amount of money they will get from a plan like this will compensate for the amount of possible customers they are losing? And there is no way that an ISP is going to agree to something of this nature.

Oh yeah right.... (1)

Effofx (640933) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109343)

Taxation without representation.....

un-be-frickin-lievable. (1)

matticus (93537) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109346)

on which planet would this be seen as acceptable? this world is in a bad way.

OK, so nothing insightful, but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109347)

This is getting out of hand.

Nothing new (5, Insightful)

greasypeso (316856) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109349)

In the 1980s, the RIAA successfully lobbied to have a blank cassette tape tax levied in the US (also in Canada). There's already precedent, and no one put up a fuss then, so what's the problem? ;)

Re:Nothing new (4, Informative)

Mister Transistor (259842) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109410)

More recently, they also successfully lobbied to have a similar surcharge included in CD-Music-R discs, which could only be recorded on home CD-R music recorders (CD-R data drives wouldn't read em).

These had an extra $1.00 per disc or so added to the retail price compared to similar CD-R's sold at the time. Since they only held music not data the RIAA assumed (that word again!) that they would ONLY be used to record pirated musical content, so the surcharge whent through unchallenged.

Re:Nothing new (1)

MrP- (45616) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109423)

Theres a big difference though, what are you going to use blank cassettes for? Copying music? recording personal stuff? Looking up information for a book report, chatting with friends, buying products, get news updates, etc? Maybe the first 2, but not the rest, whereas the internet has a lot more than just mp3s.

Re:Nothing new (3, Interesting)

cscx (541332) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109428)

Anyone else remember DATs, before they were taxed out of existence?

Re:Nothing new (5, Insightful)

timmyf2371 (586051) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109451)

With the RIAA lobbying for this "ISP Fee", shouldn't this theoretically legitimise MP3 downloads?

Call me cynical, but IMHO the RIAA will collect their ISP Fee from those users who download, and those who do not, and they will still press to have the likes of Kazaa and Napster illegalised (sp?). My problem with big corporations and organisations is that they generally want their cake and eat it.

Maybe I'm wrong: maybe we'll have our Internet tax and the RIAA will be happy. For some reason, I think not.


Re:Nothing new (3, Insightful)

elsilver (85140) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109462)

Actually, the blank cassette tape levy, which has now been extended to blank CDs, DVDs and mp3 players, puts the recording industry in a much weaker position, here in Canada.

You could consider that because the levy goes to pay for loss due to piracy, they can't claim that piracy is costing them as much as they say. Also, since I've paid the levy, I have, in a way, paid a licensing fee, and have tacit approval for any copying I may do.

OTOH, not for one second do I believe this will prevent the RIAA from trying the same antics in Canada as they are in the US, once they have built up a series of wins. Nor do I believe that the levy will protect Canadian's interests once RIAA approved (copy inhibited) CD players begin shipping into the US. Canada is a little market compared to the US, so we'll just get the same restricted hardware that they get, and everyone will ignore the fact that this hardware is supposed to prevent copying, which we are already paying a levy to compensate for copying.


Don't forget that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109350)

Re:Don't forget that...- OBLIGATORY adjective post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109382)

In SOVIET russia, YOU tax downloads

Re:Don't forget that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109406)

Actually, isn't what Rosen is proposing closer to communism? If everyone pays a tax of this sort, there is no moral argument against freely sharing music among everyone online. It almost becomes community property because we would all have paid for it. I say almost because the RIAA of course would still own the copyrights to everything.

Re:Don't forget that... (1)

Angry White Guy (521337) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109471)

Actually, that's closer to fascism. Under communism, you would already be paying for the music regardless of whether you had the internet or not. Under Fascism, you are presumed guilty, punished without recourse, and taxed blind.
And now that's called capitolism.

Re:Don't forget that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109422)

Yes, but in Soviet Russia, Communism Downloads You!

What's next? (4, Funny)

t0qer (230538) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109351)

Is Microsoft going to be allowed to levee taxes because everyone pirates windows?

Hillary Rosen's Address and Phone Number: (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109386)

Would someone please post Rosen's address, phone number, and, of course, e-mail address.


Get Your Peace On []

We had to burn the village to rape it... (4, Insightful)

Mulletproof (513805) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109354)

Ah yes, the "Tax everybody for the crimes of the minority" scheme. you just have to love the busted logic. Where's the love, indeed? Joe over there was speeding so you get a ticket too! I see...

Re:We had to burn the village to rape it... (3, Insightful)

saur0n (640628) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109442)

In the article, it states: "Rosen suggested one possible scenario for recouping lost sales from online piracy would be to impose a type of fee on ISPs that could be passed on to their customers who frequent these file-swapping services." RIAA hasn't asked anyone to do this yet--the beginning of the article is about music companies (it doesn't say RIAA) in France that are going to ask ISPs for the fee.

Hey man, I'm all for it! (4, Interesting)

DutchSter (150891) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109355)

Hey - I'm all for it! If I'm charged a fee for downloading music, by golly, I'm going to download music!

Once I pay $0.01 in loss 'fees' to the RIAA, I consider myself licensed to download whatever is available. If I'm prevented, they should be prepared to be sued for failure to deliver a service for which fees were imposed.

Re:Hey man, I'm all for it! (1)

Big Mark (575945) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109399)

Then the MPAA will charge you $10 whenever you connect, in line with the increased cost of their industry.

THEN they'll buy up all the [cable|dialup] modem manufactures and put bugs into the firmware so that you get disconnected every three minutes.

Hey, you never know what could happen...


Considering this would be a tax.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109356)

... I want representation.

It happened before, and was just as stupid then (4, Insightful)

wackybrit (321117) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109359)

Did you know that in many countries taxes are levied on CD writers and CDR discs because of piracy?

But, put that aside, one can argue this Piracy Tax with logic.

If the RIAA wants to impose a levy on ISPs because of possible file sharing, then shouldn't software companies be allowed to impose a similar levy? And if the RIAA can impose it, what about indie labels? Their music gets stolen too. What about artists who put their graphics online? What about font designers whose fonts get ripped off on alt.binaries.fonts? Surely they should all get a cut?

Logic shows this whole idea is stupid. But will logic be enough to stop the courts? I doubt it. Aristotle said 'The law is reason from my passion'. Not in 2002 it ain't.

Correction: "The law is reason free from passion." (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109384)

For some reason I was typing while scratching my ass. Shoot me :-)

I seem to recall (0, Redundant)

BradNelson (549752) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109360)

I seem to recall that this was the sort of thing that sparked what we call the "Revolutionary War." Taxation without representation, anyone? This would be like the state mailing speeding tickets to everyone with a driver's license because a lot of people speed and get away with it.

Rosen's address? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109361)

Does anyone have Hilary Rosen's home address or phone number or something? I think it's about time she got the same treatment (or worse) as that king spammer guy. Stupid whore.

How about... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109362)

...chaining Rosen to a post and charging everyone a dollar each to whip the Nazi? The music industry would be rich.

Re:How about... (1)

nightherper (635698) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109450)

She'd prolly go "Thank you sir, May I have another?"

Damages? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109363)

I would like to claim damages from the RIAA for CDs that I've bought which had only one good song. $20 for 'Hit A' and 55 minutes of 'filler'?

Maybe the weather reporters from the news should charge the internet for giving it out for free too.... just a though.

What aobut all that free pr0n? I think Playboy has a case too.

And don't forget about the Postal Service!

If they collect the money (4, Informative)

Wolfier (94144) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109364)

Then it certainly means swapping music will become legal, right?

Taking. (4, Insightful)

Renraku (518261) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109365)

Tell you what. I'll give the RIAA and MPAA each five dollars a year if they'll simply stop trying to sue and get file sharing banned or whatever they're doing. Anyone else find it funny that a corporation is trying desperately to tax us? Corporations can't tax! Interest groups can't tak! Only the government can tax.

Atleast I won't feel guilty.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109370)

Well, I will tell you this, I will completely stop feeling guilty about any mp3 or ogg files that I download if I start getting forced to pay a file-sharing tax. Translation: I will download and NOT buy the album.

This will never happen. (2, Interesting)

Faggot (614416) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109372)

This is as absurd as taxing every blank digital medium that gets sold in America, in case they're used to pirate music!!


Wait a sec.

Welcome to the new reality. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109375)

Why work when you can get laws to do it for you? Sit on your ass and collect welfare. Get a lawyer a sue, sue, sue. Put out a halfassed product and get the government to force people to deal with you... it'll happen more and more as people's ethics and actions look more like the Clinton's.

Re:Welcome to the new reality. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109407)

I think you made a typo... did you mean the Bush's.

Re:Welcome to the new reality. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109472)

Of course he/she did; and also confused the personal (despicable but human) failings with someone who truly is out to destroy individual's rights and independence. Long live the Corporation; the main reason to send people to Mars.

Government, Inc. (5, Insightful)

limekiller4 (451497) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109376)

This is about as bright as the already in-effect tax on writeable media [] . It goes to the RIAA et al to reimburse them for piracy. So we pay for piracy and still can't do it.

Just when you thought that the corporate-owned government couldn't screw us in a more blatant, shameless and imaginative way, along comes Hillary...

Let's See If I Understand Correctly... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109377)

You call us criminals, and you impose a tax on me for buying CD-Rs (that I use to backup my home directory on), and you flood our p2p networks with garbage and dDoS attacks to make it difficult to use them for even legitimate purposes, and then you throw all kinds of legislation to congress and all kinds of pressure to tech companies to make fair, legal things I do with my computer illegal, because "I might" do something "bad" (i.e., not in the interest of keeping your pocketbooks full) at some point in the future. And now, you want to charge me even more?

Hilary Rosen, congratulations. You will no doubt be the first against the wall. I sincerely and wholeheartedly extend this "Fuck you" into your general direction.

Re:Let's See If I Understand Correctly... (5, Interesting)

nightherper (635698) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109487)

I second that!

I own a car - but I don't go randomly running over people or property.

I own serveral fireamrs, but I have never killed anyone or anyting with them. (Except for some out of date Coca Cola)

I own a camera, but I don't go kidnap little girls and make kiddie porn

I own several knives but I have never cut anyone but myself with them...

Yet if I own a computer, a cd burner, cd-r discs and have an internet connection I am automatically a music pirate? (Or worse?!)

If I pay for downloading pirated music (2, Interesting)

aelfwyne (262209) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109379)

Then I'll start downloading pirated music, which I don't do currently. I don't have a single file-sharing app on my PC (unless you count MSN, FTP, et alius) and don't use those for much other than moving around source code..

But if they make me pay an ISP fee to download pirated music, and they reap profits from that, isn't that the same as selling me the right to download said music? As far as I'm concerned, it is.

Re:If I pay for downloading pirated music (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109390)

That's a good point. I think I'll go download a few more albums now. Thanks Hilary! You just gave me the motivation I needed to pirate!

Great, Legal Music Downloads! (1)

alexander.morgan (317764) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109380)

Extorting money from everybody then means the music is paid for--right? So everybody, since they already paid for the downloaded music, can then download it legally. ;)

Or is this like Industrial Gas Companies charging for the oxygen they weren't able to bottle?

Sure, charge me... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109383)

... and in return I'll actually start downloading music. Up until now, I've never really bothered with music downloads frm p2p systems.

But if they did this, I'd leech and share songs until the proverbial bovines return to their domiciles. After all, I'd be paying to do it, wouldn't I?

I wonder which universe these idiots live in...

Heck! Skip the ISPs! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109388)

Let's just create a media tax on all Americans. I'm sure they can find some nice people in Congress to go along with it for the appropriate cut of the eventual tax.

I propose 5% of your income go to media artists, with RIAA being given full control of distribution.

In Other News... (3, Funny)

jabex (320163) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109392)

So in the analogy world, is that kinda like...

The RIAA charges NJ Transit because apparently, some people from NJ are going to Tower Records in NY to steal CDs... but the thing is... They're using NJ Transit to do it!!! Bastards!

Heh... so... is that the appropriate analogy here? Any other fun analogies out there?

Guess they REALLY need that 6% back huh? heh.

If they get this how will it change? (1)

jpt.d (444929) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109393)

Let me see if I get this right: 1. Complain about piracy 2. Lets charge per tape because we have our music pirated. 3. ?? 4. Profit!! 5. Complain about piracy 6. Lets collect tax from ISP because we have our music pirated. 7. ?? 8. Profit!! 9. Complain about piracy 10. ?? 11. ?? 12. Profit!!

This gives me an idea... (1)

I'm just joshin (633449) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109395)

If we all did this to ensure continued permission to display our content to their users then we could all:

3) Profit!!

But then again, my opinions are as much wanted as the music of the RIAA!

That would be... (1)

LamerBunny (613373) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109396)

"I wonder then what is the moral equivalence of the RIAA taking realized cash from people who do not download music?" That would be rape... or maybe just beating them up... but I'd still go with rape - seems more in style with RIAA and the likes ;)

Sounds like Saddam... (3, Insightful)

forgoil (104808) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109397)

If this goes through it sounds like dictators are running the show. Yes, it is that bad. What will be next? A special fee for everyone because Ashcroft doesn't think the Americans give enough at church? Or a computer fee for Microsoft because everybody pirates their software? How about a fee for every computer to pay off the software companies?

The RIAA needs to be killed off, it is bad for the people. It is no longer about music, not even in the least. Those of you who are allowed to vote in the states, make sure you vote for people who don't support the RIAA...

well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109401)

I think that it would be real easy for ISPs to determine which of their customers are file-sharing, and which aren't. I mean, the people who have over 50GB of transfers per month aren't exactly downloading pr0n... are they? /me examines his 50GB pr0n collection

How to tax Hilary Rosen (1)

linuxislandsucks (461335) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109403)

Okay /. its time to be proactive..

How? If Hilary Rosen thinks its okay to tax us lets tax her out of buiness!!!

HOw? Civli disobedience..fill her snail mail address with everything from p2p sites fill her real email with teh same stuff.. make it so hard for her to be online and the rest of RIAA employees that they give up the freakign fight!

If you are ready start posting the whois and other info here on this thread..

Time to kick on RIAA's own door!

Great (1)

tsa (15680) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109404)

So I buy a CD and I get punished because other people 'steal' music. Way to go!

Just a minute... (2, Insightful)

handsomepete (561396) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109414)

They're planning on charging the ISPs and telecom companies for giving us access to file sharing networks. So instead of money changing hands (since internet access prices are already pretty bloated and they won't want to pass on additional costs to the customer at risk of losing business), the ISPs will probably just start port blocking and not pay the RIAA. The RIAA can't charge them retroactively. What never makes sense to me is that whenever these charges come up, shouldn't it give us a guilt-free pass to pirate music since we're now officially paying for it?

They're going to milk this whole "sales going to be down 6%" junk for all it's worth. I bet we'll see it in every related article until 2004.

Hey... (2, Interesting)

iNub (551859) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109415)

Charge me $10 a month for pirating, and I'm licensed to download what I want. Let's see if *anybody* buys music once it's legal to download it. I can't see how this is going to make them extra money. In fact, I think they'll lose money. Why would -- hey...

Let's let them do it! Would you pay $10 a month for a year if it made the RIAA drown in their own stupidity?

It's a new payday for musicians everywhere! (1)

knownzero (571410) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109417)

I am getting so tired of hearing about the RIAA's attempts to squeeze everyone for more money. If this works, what's to say they stop there? Next thing, it's let's get the people who but Dell computers, they ahve a statistically higher average of downloading music from Kazaa than Gateway users! New computer tax for Dell previous/current/future owners! All musicians rejoice, your payday has arrived!

I cant wait for all the ISPs (1)

happyhippy (526970) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109418)

to tell her to fuck off.

I'd kill a geek to be in the room when she gets told where to go.

And thanks /. , this made my weekend. Im laughing my fat ass off hear over it.

How will this change? (4, Interesting)

jpt.d (444929) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109419)

Let me see if I get this right:

1. Complain about piracy
2. Lets charge per tape because we have our music pirated.
3. ??
4. Profit!!
5. Complain about piracy
6. Lets collect tax from ISP because we have our music pirated.
7. ??
8. Profit!!
9. Complain about piracy
10. ??
11. ??
12. Profit!!

A few thoughts (4, Insightful)

Amsterdam Vallon (639622) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109420)

I'm not sure if this post will end up funny, insightful, informative, or interesting, but here goes anyway.

1) The name Hillary has serious connotations to it. I immediately think of annoying, overzealous, stuck-up bitches like Ms. Clinton and Ms. Rosen.

2) Every CD-R disc that you buy is taxed and portions of the money you pay are given to the RIAA and similar organizations. So don't tax my Internet bill as well, and don't take my portable MP3 player either. Some of us actually use our own bought music to listen to.

3) With every new inane law or result of a lawsuit that I hear, I get one step closer to leaving the United States. It's becoming a bloody corporate rape scene here in the States and I for one am just about at the end of my rope.

4) Corporations should not control the government. We need to run the country, it's supposed to be our government. Let's let the citizens reign free and make America the best country it's ever been but without excessive taxation for wanting to listen to music or chat on the Intranet.

urgh (2, Funny)

nightherper (635698) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109421)

This makes me want to get a cabin out in the woods so i can start making nice little bombs.....

Pretty little packages...

Ok, that's it, time to move (1)

linuxkrn (635044) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109424)

I've had it with this type of thing. I'm going to sign up to be on the next mars probe. Question, is Mars far enough away? Seriously though guys, this will continue to get out of hand until more people, yes even the /. group, start to take actions against them. These include, but are not limited to, writing your congressman, spreading the word to the other lemmings of the world, and first and foremost don't buy OR download music. Maybe if we could get enough of the new yet unknown groups to agree to NOT sign a "RIAA owns your soul", we might be able to make those on-line per song basis sites really work. Because after all, it's about the music and the artist. The RIAA is just along for a free ride at BOTH our expense.

Sounds a lot like the blank media levy... (1)

shepd (155729) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109426)

In Canada, everyone pays tax [] on CD-Rs and other media, no matter what they're used for, unless you're a church or blind. Soon this tax will be applied to any and all media.

I'm tired of being guilty until proven innocent.

What about... (1)

rasteri (634956) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109427)

...all the potential money lost by people simply not liking the endless repetitive music that's churned out by the record companies? Are they going to start imposing fees on everyone who doesn't buy their music?

yep/no (0)

john_smith_45678 (607592) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109430)

downloading music illegally over the Internet to be the moral equivalence of stealing

Well, it is

However, this attempt by the RIAA is ridiculous.

This is the information I have to go on? (2, Interesting)

Yo Grark (465041) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109431)

Here's a better article.

In it, HR's more sane suggestion is to urge

"major music labels, which include Sony Music, Warner Music, EMI, Universal Music and Bertelsmann's BMG, to ease licensing restrictions, develop digital copyright protections for music and invest more in promoting subscription download services."

Sounds like a good plan to me.

The only thing she forgot was the "oh and offer music at a fair price"

Sometimes it seems paraphrasing is the main source of news on Slashdot. :P

Yo Grark
Canadian Bred with American Buttering

It was *they* who missed the opportunity! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109432)

Is it any different than those who have been buying retail via the 'net and NOT paying local taxes all the while the federal and local governments overlooked it for their own reasons and benefit (mainly letting the net and online retailing mature and grow until big enough to take to *slaughter* tax-wise and building out of infrastructure). Now, the late adopters will pay dearly.

Just watch... (1)

Effofx (640933) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109433)

soon businesses will have a "customer-cigarette-smoke-made-my-walls-filthy" fee (read tax).....god help us...

Who actually supports this? (1)

euxneks (516538) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109436)

I mean, does someone actually think is some sort of smart idea? How many americans actually support the RIAA? Is it just the money-makers that have a say to the laws?

Issues... (1)

YahoKa (577942) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109437)

We all know this will never happen, but here's an argument anyways:

If i am paying (directly or indirectly) the RIAA becuase i am using their music, then they have charged me useage fees and it should therefore be legal for me to use the music on the file sharing networks!

The will go over well in Canada (4, Interesting)

Jason1729 (561790) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109438)

The recording industry already has a tax on most computer media in Canada.

It's already 21 cents per CD, and is going up to 59 cents soon. There's also a fee of 21 cents/megabyte for digital camera memory and tiny HDs because they can also be used in mp3 players.

Taxing ISPs is probably just the next logical step up here

ProfQuotes []

Re:The will go over well in Canada (1)

knownzero (571410) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109463)

Excellent! I've been looking for a new smuggling operation for a while now. First it was weed, then coke, then heroin, now CD-R's for Canada! Arrrr matey!

Re:The will go over well in Canada (1)

Yo Grark (465041) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109482)

Don't know what part of Canada you're in, but the increase and "tax all media" thing hasn't happened yet.

It was the annual end of year "scare". Each year it gets closer, but it hasn't happened yet.

But just wait til next year...

Yo Grark
Canadian Bred with American Buttering

If it is stealing to download music... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109439)

If it is stealing to download music,
Then it is stealing for record stores to not take back crappy music.

I stole this comment from another story, but it was a while ago and it stuck with me.

Didn't they already get a deal like this? (1)

sterno (16320) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109440)

Isn't much of the digital media like DAT Tapes and CD-R's taxes already for such a purpose? And isn't the RIAA copy-protecting CD's in a way that essentially mitigates the supposed harm that they were going to get from the sales of the recording media?

But you know, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd pay $10-20/month for unlimited acccess to a large library of music. If I paid this through a tax and it protected me from the RIAA trying to mess with on-line trading, I'd almost be okay with it except for two big problems:

1) People who didn't use P2P would get no choice in the matter
2) The money wouldn't be going to non-RIAA artists whose songs could be traded just as easily

So, good theory RIAA, but go back to the drawing board.

bad idea (1)

Ferro_Man (252684) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109444)

this is a very bad idea.

first, not everyone uses the internet to download music and movies
secondly, ISP's are already more expensive than i would like to pay.

and isn't there this thing about no taxation without representation?

whats next?

the riaa charging radio stations, and boombox makers because people can record and listen to music on both?

if the riaa nad the mpaa wants to gain support, they should not be shooting themselves in the foot like this

proof (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109445)

Ya, there is some damage done by P2P, but can they really prove that a person would actually buy the product if there was no pirated version available?

Suing (1)

hackwrench (573697) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109449)

They do this, then artists not associated with the RIAA sue them for their fair share. Anybodny know the formula they decide for the payoffs for the CD-RW and R media?

idea for RIAA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109453)

here's an idea RIAA,.... EAT a DICK!

Only internet users? (1)

BlueWonder (130989) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109455)

Why stop here? The RIAA could lobby for a law that everybody has to pay a fixed percentage of their income to the RIAA member companies. Once this is done, they could even stop producing music at all, which has the additional "benefit" that they don't need to worry about copyright infringement any more.

And I was just about to go buy some compact discs. (1)

bgfay (5362) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109458)

The RIAA is, without a doubt, the worst PR group in history. The only thing they haven't done yet is to alienate most of the buying public. That step is coming if people who know about the issues keep spreading the word.

I wonder if there is anyone left who can claim that file sharing/music stealing is a bad thing and keep a straight face. Me, I copy discs from the library, from my friends, and from gnutella. The only music I've bought in the last two years are discs by artists who market their work under their own small labels such as Karen Savoca (go buy her stuff if you like cool folk).

The RIAA represents labels who turn out 95% crap anyway. I won't be buying anything from them and I'll keep up to date on the things they are doing to steal money from me. I'll also make discs for my family and friends whenever they ask.

Come put me in jail, Mr. RIAA spokesman. Until you do, let me know if there's a disc you need copied.

Cover Charge (1)

VoidEngineer (633446) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109459)

As per the article:

A top music executive said on Saturday that telecommunications companies and Internet service providers (ISPs) will be asked to pay up for giving their customers access to free song-swapping sites.

Sounds to me like the 'bouncers-union' has identified some sites which are successfull enough that they ought to start 'offering their services'. Anyhow, sounds to me like they're asking you to pay a cover charge to go into a night club. I'm not sure that's entirely unethical or unreasonable.

The RIAA considers downloading music illegally over the Internet to be the moral equivalence of stealing. I wonder then what is the moral equivalence of the RIAA taking realized cash from people who do not download music?

Paying a cover charge, perhaps? You don't have to drink alcohol at a night club; but many of them will charge cover whether you get drunk or are the designated driver.

What a silly argument (-1, Troll)

I Am The Owl (531076) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109460)

So, you're saying "since some people don't steal music over the Internet, then the RIAA has no right to take their money from them"

That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. Perhaps you are familiar with another system that works like this; we usually refer to it here as taxation. You, the user, turn over a certain portion of your earnings to the government and, in return, recieve services from them proportional to your need. There is nothing morally wrong with this - you are helping out the poor and disadvantaged by doing so.

Similarly, through paying this fee to the RIAA, you will be able to continue to enjoy the music that you listen to. What would happen if the major record labels ended up going bankrupt? You certainly wouldn't be able to get music anymore. Odds are, you would be a lot more pissed off than you were when you found out you just had to pay a fee to compensate for the crimes committed by others.

Hell, I can draw another parallel to taxation here: if you think this is so goddamned unfair, then what are you doing by electing officials who continue to support the concept of imprisonment by the state? You are, after all, paying the upkeep for other people who have committed wrongs. Surely, they should all be executed at minimal cost to you, the taxpayer, because you shouldn't be paying for their mistakes. Or should you? I certainly hope nobody here is heartless enough to support such a position - we have enough people imprisoned already for frivolous drug offenses, the last thing we should do is start executing them.

So really, when reflected upon, this isn't such a bad thing. What you are really doing is paying for a service rendered by the RIAA. Sure, there may be some who don't listen to music, but by and large, such a luddite probably doesn't have an internet connection, either.

best for last (4, Interesting)

BigBir3d (454486) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109466)

wrt Kazaa and the like:

"It's clear to me these companies are profiting to the tune of millions and millions of dollars. They must be held accountable," Rosen said.

When did I give Kazaa money again...?

There are two types of blank media (1)

Kiwi (5214) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109474)

As I understand it, for the various types of media that could be used to pirate music, there are two types of media. One can be used by consumer audio recorders, and gives a certain percent of the cost of the media to the RIAA. Another can not be used by consumer audio recorders, and, as I recall, does not have the HRRA tax.

This is why, when you go to Fry's, there are both the cheap computer CDRs and the more expensive "Digital audio" CDRs. As a result, I get to pay the RIAA for the privledge of copything my music to CDR, since my CD burner is one that only accepts HRRA media. 1 []

The RIAA needs to realize that we are no longer in the early 1990s. They can not get congress to pass something like this without the general public knowing what they are doing and suitably protesting.

- Sam

Well, OK, I don't, since there is a firmware bug that allows me to use normal CDRs.

Let's get this ball rolling... (2, Informative)

iNub (551859) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109479)

1330 Connecticut Ave., NW #300

Domain Name: RIAA.COM

Administrative Contact:
McCaffrey, Howard (HM66) hmccaffrey@RIAA.COM
Recording Industry Association of America, Inc.
1330 Connecticut Ave., NW Suite 300
Washington, DC 20036
202-857-9618 (FAX) 202-775-7253
Technical Contact:
Global Network Management Center (VXGTRUVDOO) rm-hostmaster@EMS.ATT.COM
AT&T DNS Service
3324 Hollenberg
Bridgeton, MO 63044
Fax- 314-264-9647

Record expires on 26-Oct-2005.
Record created on 27-Oct-1994.
Database last updated on 18-Jan-2003 16:42:22 EST.

Domain servers in listed order:


Accident (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109484)

If we all donate a little money I'm sure we can find a very skilled professional that can make her drowning look like an accident. Donate via PayPal!

Welcome to.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109488)

a world with TCPA, DRM, paladium, etc etc...

This is simple abuse on theyre part. They want to hijack the internet, ISPs , CPUs, Players and BIOses. These people are the reason why nobody trusts anything nowdays.

Sure scream I WONT USE THE ITNERNET THEN. erm , i dont think so. you couldnt Live WITHOUTH it.The reason they get away with this is beacause YOU SUPPORT THEM, you buy CDs , DVDs, Dont say you dont,. the rest of youre family does I bet. Nerds around the world dont have that large an impact. Its mom n pop n teenage sisters they want money from.

Give me a Break (1)

icewalker (462991) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109490)


I can't believe what I'm reading. Where do people (and organizations) get off coming up with ideas like this in the first place. I'll be damned if I'm going to let some organization tax my use of the internet just because their "shown to be corrupt" [] business model can't handle a slow down in the economy, and because the organization can't figure out why nobody wants to buy it's crap!

It galled me when "they" got away with the audio cassette taxation! Why should I pay an extra fee that supposedly goes to music artists when I don't use the audio cassette to record music. There are other conceivable uses you know!

It will gall me when they finally succeed in taxing blank CDR's. I have them know, I don't put any music on CDR! I do have other, more legitimate uses and I shouldn't have to pay a tax to back up my digital photos, or my income tax records, or my home movies! Give me a break!

This one is for you Hillary! Wake up and join reality. Your sales are down because the global economy is in the crapper. Food is more important than new music CD's. Rent is more important than new music CD's. And frankly, people don't like what you have to offer! I suggest you quit trying to find alternative, highly questionable, possibly immoral, streams of revenue!

As for buying music. Yup, I buy music! Local artists do exist you know! Their music tends to be better (i.e. more original than the latest teeny-bopper) and the CD is cheaper! What a concept! A $10 CD with decent music! Not a single artist I buy is affiliated with the RIAA. It's called a boycott! [] Get used to it! We are not your sheep! Time for you to return to the concept of "The customer is always right!" Maybe then, you will see some customers return, but don't count on it!

Stopping the Bitch (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109491)

This bitch needs to be stopped. Any idea's on how we do it?

Whoah wait a minute. (1)

dontkillme (577915) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109493)

Soo if they're doing this to offset the costs of people downloading the music illegally, it would in turn make sense that you're paying for the music. And so any music you get from there out would be legal. Make sense to anyone else? Sure...that's probably why it'd never be the case.

Music tax? (1)

miffo.swe (547642) | more than 11 years ago | (#5109494)

This is just hilarious. To demand taxes on pirating is by in view to make it legit. I mean, if you pay then you should have the benefit of the payment too right? Fines i can understand but a broad tax that applies to everybody is just plain stupid. The tax you have paid gives you the right to pirate, or doesnt it? Else its a punishment on people who havent done anything, not everyone copies their music you know. Maybe the hospitals should start taxing the NRA and the police?

I cant even begin to understand how theese people think. They are like a ten headed hydra pulling in all different directions.

Hi. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109495)

No taxation without representation, bitch.

Go ahead. Tax us.

When you're tarred, feathered, and tossed in a harbor to meet Davey Jones, don't complain.


I said ARRRR.


Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5109500)

I think that the RIAA is wasting all of their time battling P2P networks because the concept was originally theirs. The concepts behind Napster were actually leaked into the 'wrong hands' and spread too fast for the RIAA to control. They were planning on changing their business model, but too many free alternatives to their pay version of the RIAA P2P Network popped up. They're just not willing to give up on it instead of innovating again, and THAT'S why they keep coming up with these zany solutions.

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