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Neverwinter Nights Update

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the never-ever-winter-nights dept.

Games 169

nyquil superstar writes "Just thought everyone might like to know, there are a whole bunch of updates at Bioware's NWN Linux Client Page. Includes goodies like the timing of future releases and betas, how to install the Linux client and future(!) expansions, and updates on the movies and sound issues. The quick version: sound is in and they will release a Linux client before they integrate a movie player. Oh, and you'll need to download the game's resource data or use a Windows install, the CD is only good for the reg. key and Windows install. Good news though, because it sounds like it's getting close."

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fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112661)

first post!

sp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112677)

WOHOO! second post!

Re:sp (-1)

Carp Flounderson (542291) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112738)

Now this is some funny shit. Some hot young girl was just knocking on my door at 4:30 am. So, I did what would any sensible man would do... I invited her in for a bong hit. It took me a while to figure out that she was actually a prostitute with a wrong address. Ah well.

IN SOVIET GOATSE (-1, Troll)

IN SOVIET RUSSIA (621411) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112664)

*_-_-_-_I_N_-_S_O_V_I_E_T_-_G_O_A_T_S_E_-_-_-_-_*_
g_______________________________________________g_ _
o_/_____\_____________\____________/____\_______o_ _
a|_______|_____________\__________|______|______a_ _
t|_______`._____________|_________|_______:_____t_ _
s`________|_____________|________\|_______|_____s_ _
e_\_______|_/_______/__\\\___--___\\_______:____e_ _
x__\______\/____--~~__________~--__|_\_____|____x_ _
*___\______\_-~____________________~-_\____|____*_ _
g____\______\_________.--------.______\|___|____g_ _
o______\_____\______//_________(_(__>__\___|____o_ _
a_______\___.__C____)_________(_(____>__|__/____a_ _
t_______/\_|___C_____)/_Hole_\_(_____>__|_/_____t_ _
s______/_/\|___C_____)_Widens|__(___>___/__\____s_ _
e_____|___(____C_____)\_You!_/__//__/_/_____\___e_ _
x_____|____\__|_____\\_________//_(__/_______|__x_ _
*____|_\____\____)___`----___--'_____________|__*_ _
g____|__\______________\_______/____________/_|_g_ _
o___|______________/____|_____|__\____________|_o_ _
a___|_____________|____/_______\__\___________|_a_ _
t___|__________/_/____|_________|__\___________|t_ _
s___|_________/_/______\__/\___/____|__________|s_ _
e__|_________/_/________|____|_______|_________|e_ _
x__|__________|_________|____|_______|_________|x_ _
*_-_-_-_I_N_-_S_O_V_I_E_T_-_G_O_A_T_S_E_-_-_-_-_*


Important Stuff: IN SOVIET RUSSIA topics post you! IN SOVIET RUSSIA other people's comments reply to you instead of starting new threads. IN SOVIET RUSSIA other people's messages are read before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said you! IN SOVIET RUSSIA a clear subject that describes what your message is about uses you! Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments WILL be moderated by dickhead mods. (IN SOVIET RUSSIA everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page read you!) IN SOVIET RUSSIA replies to your comments sent to you, also consider logging in an account creates you!

Important Stuff: IN SOVIET RUSSIA topics post you! IN SOVIET RUSSIA other people's comments reply to you instead of starting new threads. IN SOVIET RUSSIA other people's messages are read before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said you! IN SOVIET RUSSIA a clear subject that describes what your message is about uses you! Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments WILL be moderated by dickhead mods. (IN SOVIET RUSSIA everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page read you!) IN SOVIET RUSSIA replies to your comments sent to you, also consider logging in an account creates you!

Important Stuff: IN SOVIET RUSSIA topics post you! IN SOVIET RUSSIA other people's comments reply to you instead of starting new threads. IN SOVIET RUSSIA other people's messages are read before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said you! IN SOVIET RUSSIA a clear subject that describes what your message is about uses you! Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments WILL be moderated by dickhead mods. (IN SOVIET RUSSIA everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page read you!) IN SOVIET RUSSIA replies to your comments sent to you, also consider logging in an account creates you!

Important Stuff: IN SOVIET RUSSIA topics post you! IN SOVIET RUSSIA other people's comments reply to you instead of starting new threads. IN SOVIET RUSSIA other people's messages are read before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said you! IN SOVIET RUSSIA a clear subject that describes what your message is about uses you! Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments WILL be moderated by dickhead mods. (IN SOVIET RUSSIA everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page read you!) IN SOVIET RUSSIA replies to your comments sent to you, also consider logging in an account creates you!

Important Stuff: IN SOVIET RUSSIA topics post you! IN SOVIET RUSSIA other people's comments reply to you instead of starting new threads. IN SOVIET RUSSIA other people's messages are read before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said you! IN SOVIET RUSSIA a clear subject that describes what your message is about uses you! Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments WILL be moderated by dickhead mods. (IN SOVIET RUSSIA everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page read you!) IN SOVIET RUSSIA replies to your comments sent to you, also consider logging in an account creates you!

Re:IN SOVIET GOATSE (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5113379)

No dude no.

I added you to my friends list because you were tasteful and funny, now your just a fucking troll.

Good bye.

Finally (2, Interesting)

Mikelikus (212556) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112666)

Finally! It's getting closer to a great release and a milestone in linux gaming.

Hopefully more companies will follow bioware's example. Give the distributors the windows games, give the community the linux patch ;)

Re:Finally (2, Funny)

pclinger (114364) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112751)


Hopefully more companies will follow bioware's example.

Follow their example by taking 3 years to put out the game? Yeah, great.

NWN Coming To Linux [slashdot.org] -- August 8, 1999.

Re:Finally (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112796)

What milestone? The 'We shipped a linux version a year after the Windows version!' milestone? Sure, that'll attract lots of users to Linux.

Re:Finally (0)

m1chael (636773) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112999)

biowares goal isnt to attract people to linux, its to attract money to bioware.

It's a milestone alright... (1, Insightful)

sterno (16320) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113219)

Yes, it officially marks how bad things are for Linux gaming. Game developers continue release second rate and late products for Linux when they bother to release anything at all. I predict that all this work for the Linux client will have been a waste because those who really wanted the game already got it for Windows.

What would be a good milestone, and something that I have yet to see is a really good game being released to Linux first (or only for Linux). Don't get me wrong, there are some good games for Linux, but nothing that has Windows gamers contemplating installing RedHat just so they can play those games. That's what I'd like to see, but it'll have to be an independent developer that does this because none of the major vendors are going to take the chance on it.

That independent developer... (2, Insightful)

cnelzie (451984) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113366)

Would unfortunately go out of business before getting to start on the Windows port of their game. While there are a large number of Linux users out there, there simply isn't the same number of Linux gamers as there are Windows Gamers.

Game support under Linux is unfortunately sub-par. From the feel of games like Quake III to the lateness of games arriving, like NWN. It isn't always the developers fault. There just aren't all that many great and very powerful game development API kits available on Linux that are as robust as the ones available on Windows.

Part of that is the lackluster Linux gaming community. If the Linux Gaming Community took it upon itself to buy the Linux versions of games released by Loki, instead of whining about the games Loki released, or simply whining about how no publishers are releasing Linux games. Well, Loki would probably still be in business (Even with the bad book-keeping I had read something about...) and perhaps a few more companies would be out there supporting Linux games and producing Linux games.

If some company announced that they were releasing a game for Linux, even if it isn't something I generally like to play, I would buy it. Simply because I wish to see Linux move into the home entertainment realm, instead of conceding that segment of computing to Microsoft.

still not done? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112670)

didn't they say their going to release both windows and linux versions at the same time? and they still haven't got a proper linux version?

FP (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112672)

FP

Gamers.. (-1, Flamebait)

rastachops (543268) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112673)

.. but what is the point in making conversions for Linux? The vast majority of Gamers use Windows because it has better graphics drivers, better hardware support and its easier to install and set games up.

Until Linux has superior speed, drivers and ease of use, it will remain as a server based OS, and not as a Gaming OS.

Re:Gamers.. (2, Insightful)

jfedor (27894) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112690)

Until Linux has superior speed, drivers and ease of use, it will remain as a server based OS, and not as a Gaming OS.

Seems to me it is the games that are needed to make Linux a gaming OS.

-jfedor

Re:Gamers.. (1, Interesting)

rastachops (543268) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112705)

But it doesnt have superior drivers! Surely games would be released for Linux and all the gamers start to use Linux for games if it did have. But it doesnt. Not where speed is concerned anyway and thats what counts.

I dont see why he's been modded up apart from some Linux zealot being biased. Its quite right that Windows is better for games and its hardly something that can be discussed.

Re:Gamers.. (1)

blincoln (592401) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112742)

But it doesnt have superior drivers! Surely games would be released for Linux and all the gamers start to use Linux for games if it did have.

I think it's more an ease of support issue.

Publishers have enough trouble walking people through Windows installs and troubleshooting conflicts with the four supported versions of that OS (98/ME/2k/XP).

Can you imagine the hassle of - over the phone or email - trying to figure out what was causing the problem when your customer could be using any Linux distribution, with any number of possible configurations? "Sorry sir, it looks like you didn't enable a function the game requires in the kernel. You're going to need to recompile it."

When I want to play a game, it's *for fun*. I don't want to have to futz around with config files and length install processes. Windows is bad enough WRT this, and the vast majority of customers are just not technically-inclined enough for the added complexity of Linux.

Personally I'm finding I prefer consoles more and more every day, other than the ability to take high-res screenshots.

Re:Gamers.. (1)

The Analog Kid (565327) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112752)

It doesn't have superior drivers because there aren't the games to use it with. The driver makers can't fix graphical problems because they don't occur, since there aren't the games to produce them. I also don't know about following Bioware's example because in December they didn't even know that there was a port of Blink and Miles to Linux. Id seems to know what their doing when it comes to porting. I'm sure that there are many gamers that are going to us Linux but are waiting for Doom III, and knowing Id there will be a Linux version.

Re:Gamers.. (3, Insightful)

Tim C (15259) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112885)

Superior drivers?

How about the fact that NVidia's drivers for Linux are at least on a par with the Windows ones? They're slightly faster in some benchmarks, slghtly slower in others - over all, pretty much the same.

Besides, superior drivers or not, what we have with Linux is a Catch-22 situation. No-one will use it because their favourite games and apps aren't being released for it. On the other hand, no-one will write such things for it because no-one is using it.(Yes, I'm ignoring questions about perceived ease of installation and use, etc)

If by "Windows is better for games" you mean "there are more games available for Windows", then yes, that's true. If you mean that Windows has a broader range of supported hardware as far as games is concerned, then yes, that's true. If you mean that Linux is fundamentally too slow, or it's too hard to install games under Linux, then all I can say is that you've never played UT, Q3, etc on a machine with an NVidia card and drivers installed. Easy to install, and just as fast (qualitatively) as the Windows versions.

Fundamentally, the reason that (commercial) games aren't released for Linux is three-fold: lack of userbase, lack of good hardware support, fragmentation of distributions. These reasons are all very much inter-related.

Re:Gamers.. (1)

Corbin Dallas (165835) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112886)

But it doesnt have superior drivers! Surely games would be released for Linux and all the gamers start to use Linux for games if it did have. But it doesnt. Not where speed is concerned anyway and thats what counts.



You seem to be under the false belief that technology is the deciding factor when game developers select a platform. It is not. The developer will go where it can reach the largest potential market so that they can profit from thier labors. That is why most games are still developed for Windows. Windows clearly has the larger market share among gamers' OSes, and so it offers the greatest potential profit.



The only way this can change for Linux is to get Linux onto more gamers' PCs. How to do that? You have to force them to install it. You have to offer them games that they really want to play, but they have to be Linux only titles. ( Or at least, released first for Linux. )

Re:Gamers.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112914)

Yes, but if you never ask for games on non windows platforms can this trend ever cease?

Seriously think long term.

ATI Windows drivers (1)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113146)

I just bought a brand new Radeon 9700 Pro for my brand new PC. Eventually it will dual boot WinXP/Linux, but I'm waiting for the next version of a particular distro, so for the immediate future it's XP only.

You know what? ATI's Windows drivers still appear to suck. Contrary to what I'd read before buying, their new Catalyst 3 drivers do not seem to be completely stable with DirectX 9 (their raison d'etre). I got copies of both Neverwinter Nights and Black and White for Christmas, both games several of my friends have enjoyed playing and things I was looking forward to. Right now I (and a lot of other people with ATI cards, apparently) can't play NWN for more than five minutes without it taking out my whole PC.

If Linux has ATI drivers that work at all with the advanced features on the graphics cards, it's going to be better than Windows.

(I put together the PC myself, BTW, from nothing but well-regarded and highly recommended kit. The only other drivers I've installed apart from the ATI ones and DirectX 9 are those supplied with the mobo to handle the on-board kit. I'm thus reasonably confident that it really is the combination of Catalyst drivers and DirectX that accounts for the lack of stability.)

Re:ATI Windows drivers (1)

Drakin (415182) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113466)

Either roll back to a differnt version of the Drivers (cat 2.4 I beleive works with NWN) or read through the NWN forums to get the EXE moded to work with those F***ed up drivers.

Re:Gamers.. (2, Interesting)

dWhisper (318846) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112720)

The vast majority of Gamers use Windows because it has better graphics drivers, better hardware support and its easier to install and set games up.

They use Windows because they don't have much choice, not necissarily because of a better driver base. Most Windows drivers are updated more frequently, but that's because of the distribution of the market.

What is true is that DirectX is the API of choice for game makers, but for a reason. The development of higher level graphics processes and Shader development for the OpenGL 2.0 specification has been rather slow, and no where near the specification and performance of DX. But that is changing slowly.

Linux is just easier to use on the graphics front, with display properties tweaking and things like NView and the ATi Control Panel, but given time, you'll see similar functions appear in Linux (if they're not already there).

And the reason is for making conversions? Money. Linux is also a desktop OS, for most of the people that read here, for example. Those people like to play games too (or so I'd assume), and would purchase games they can play. More people playing the game on different OS's, especially for a user-content driven game like Neverwinter Nights is a good thing.

And the speed thing is debateable. The actual Graphics Driver speed that is gained by running Windows can be offset by the efficient memory utilization and processing streamlining of Linux. I'd be willing to bet that the low-end specs for NWN would be a lot more friendly on a Linux Box than a Windows box, if for nothing else other than the ability to strip what's running in the background.

Re:Gamers.. (0, Troll)

solidhen (642119) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112734)

Yah, because a computer has only two uses 1) As a gaming machine (Playing UT2003) 2) As a server machine (Hosting a UT2003 game)

Re:Gamers.. (2, Interesting)

Cassius105 (623098) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112802)

im a gamer and main reason i dont use linux is the lack of games nothing to do with hardware soon as alot of companies start making linux versions of there games ill switch from windows without a second thought

Re:Gamers.. (0)

m1chael (636773) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112987)

id say, directx is one of the bigger problems :)

My complaint about the typical NWN user (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112678)

After reading this letter, you will never again be able to trust the typical NWN user, and you will see with crystal clarity the way that I myself like to throw darts at the typical NWN user's picture. Let's get down to business: If my memory serves me correctly, it has been said that the typical NWN user's artifices are a ticking time bomb, set to lead an active disinformation campaign. I, in turn, believe that the typical NWN user's hatchet jobs are not pedantic treatises expressing theories or extravaganzas dealing in fables or fancies. They are substantial, sober outpourings from the very soul of absenteeism. This hasn't sat well with headlong anarchists. But don't take my word for it; ask any doctrinaire, appalling buffoons you happen to meet. Should we sit back and let the typical NWN user promote the total destruction of individuality in favor of an all-powerful group, or should we shoo him away like the annoying bug that he is? That choice sure sounds like a no-brainer to me. I need to spend some time considering how best to compare, contrast, and identify the connections among different kinds of meretricious deconstructionism. Of course, this sounds simple, but in reality, the real issue is simple: The typical NWN user runs at the first sign of trouble.

Speaking of gormless maggots, I have to wonder where he got the idea that it is my view that laws are meant to be broken. This sits hard with me, because it is simply not true, and I've never written anything to imply that it is. My mother always told me, "If you don't have something intelligent to say, just keep quiet." Apparently, the typical NWN user's mother never told him that.

Everybody is probably familiar with the cliche that it is difficult for many people to accept that it would be good for the press to start paying attention to things like this. Well, there's a lot of truth in that cliche. If the typical NWN user wanted to, he could maintain social control by eliminating rights and freedoms. He could permit dotty televangelists to rise to positions of leadership and authority. And he could lionize hidebound grizzlers. We must truly not allow the typical NWN user to do any of these. On a closing note, I hope that this letter, while incomplete, informal, and having no authority except its own inner strength and conviction, has clearly demonstrated to you that whenever the typical NWN user gives a speech, he is always careful to sidestep the issue of how it must be stated quite categorically that as lackluster as it might sound, he does not play nice with others.

Before you support them... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112683)


Please know that this is an Israeli Jewish company.

wrong (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112741)

Jobs at BioWare

We are located in Edmonton, Alberta Canada - offering the benefit of lower cost of living in a clean, un-crowded environment. We offer competitive salaries and full medical benefits. All applicants must be willing to relocate to Edmonton.

Re:wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5113458)

Alberta has a higher cost of living than most othr provinces.

Also to ported to gnu/hurd (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112686)

Once gnu/hurd actually supports a graphics card better than 80x25 text mode!

Re:Also to ported to gnu/hurd (3, Funny)

ralmeida (106461) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112733)

Until then, you can use the aalib version...

Re:Also to ported to gnu/hurd (2, Informative)

Sunnan (466558) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113096)

XFree86 works with the Hurd, so that would be now.

Why do they do the port? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112691)

Will this really be viable? There are some serious man-hours spent on this port, is it reasonable to expect this project to be profitable?

Re:Why do they do the port? (5, Informative)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112725)

Will this really be viable? There are some serious man-hours spent on this port, is it reasonable to expect this project to be profitable?

Probably not. However, it appears Bioware are pressing ahead (and doing it inhouse) because they are a games company that wants to be around in the long run, and stay one step ahead of its competitors. Writing portable code isn't something that comes as second nature to most Windows coders, least of all games coders, but they clearly think (correctly) that Linux is going to be a force in the long run on the desktop.

By teaching themselves the ins and outs of porting games, they've learned (the hard way it seems) that portability has to be a concern from the beginning. Using SDL isn't hard, but it makes porting so much easier it's untrue. Make sure any 3rd party engines you use will run on other platforms or are easily made portable. And so on.

I think it's telling they outsourced the porting of the Mac client, but kept the Linux port in house. They could have easily hired LGP for instance to port it, or done what was done for Unreal Tournament and get a freelancer in, but they didn't. That makes me think they value the experience and want to keep it internal to the company. Assuming BioWare stick around, I'd expect to see more Linux ports in future.

Re:Why do they do the port? (1)

droleary (47999) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112806)

Probably not. However, it appears Bioware are pressing ahead (and doing it inhouse) because they are a games company that wants to be around in the long run, and stay one step ahead of its competitors.

That doesn't make sense. If it's a sink hole, they're less likely to be around for the long run. A company basically has to be moronic to put out a Linux client before a Mac client. Not only is the Mac market bigger (and captive; no ability to just boot Windows if they wanted to play), the support for OpenGL is more polished and it would give them a proving ground for their work.

That makes me think they value the experience and want to keep it internal to the company.

Odd, it makes me think the code is a damn mess that relies heavily on both Windows and x86 funk. You'd think these companies would have learned something from id when it came to creating games with a portable core. I predict you'll see DOOM 3 for Linux before you see NWN.

Re:Why do they do the port? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112839)

theres also no mac client for unreal tournament 2k3 - but a linux client. maybe thats why apple released X11

Re:Why do they do the port? (1)

dipipanone (570849) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112944)

Not only is the Mac market bigger (and captive; no ability to just boot Windows if they wanted to play), the support for OpenGL is more polished and it would give them a proving ground for their work.

Are you sure about this? Just last week, I was reading that the sales of Linux boxed sets would put Linux desktops on a par with the Mac user base, and if you include iso downloads, then Linux will have overtaken Mac use for the first time ever.

I can't recall where I read it, though I've a strong suspicion it was in last Thursday's Guardian [guardian.co.uk] .

Re:Why do they do the port? (1)

ealar dlanvuli (523604) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112969)

The guardian finds a way to praise linux constantly, take what they say for what it's worth.

While I don't disagree that linux will someday overtake the Mac (the Mac is really a niche product, but a damn good one at that) I have doubts it will be this year.

The place it will start is the corperate desktop, amusing since 3 years ago most CTO's would have laughed and said "leenux whats that?"

Re:Why do they do the port? (1)

droleary (47999) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113012)

Are you sure about this?

Given that a full audit of all computers on the planet is not likely, I'm as sure as IDC is. Numbers can be cooked, and PC types love to cook Mac numbers, as though somehow making the Mac less significant makes their platform any better. Real world stats like the Google Zeitgeist [google.com] still show Macs have four times the usage as Linux, and I would further guess that the Linux use comes more from a corporate setting than a home setting where a game purchase would be likely. Mac users are also used to paying for commercial software, whereas Linux user support is a bigger question mark. When all is said and done, I would guess the Mac game market is an order of magnitude larger than the Linux game market. Both are, of course, absolutely dwarfed by the Windows monopoly. Regardless, smart money would have done a Mac port first.

Re:Why do they do the port? (1)

alienw (585907) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113214)

The size of the games market is largely irrelevant to the total platform penetration. If the mac had 10,000,000 users but none/few of them wanted to play Quake 3, it would not be a better platform for it than something with 100,000 users of which 30% would buy the game. Depending on these percentages, Mac vs. Linux could go either way.

Re:Why do they do the port? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112874)

That makes me think they value the experience and want to keep it internal to the company. Assuming BioWare stick around, I'd expect to see more Linux ports in future.

LOL. I'm sure they didn't think it was important enough to out-source. That cost money, much more money than sticking some intern in a closet to be the "master Linux porter person". And that's why it has taken so long and will probably not work well.

Cross platform from the beginning, that's the only way. (eg Quake, Quake2, Quake3).

Let me dispel a couple things... (2, Informative)

Dixie_Flatline (5077) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113305)

1) NWN WAS cross platform from the beginning. I'm not sure where it got hung up, but most of the linux code was in there from the start. Same with the Mac code.

2) The port was not done by some intern. Not only do we not hire interns at Bioware, but the guy doing it is quite a competent programmer. Unfortunately, he was also the victim of having a lot on his plate from being such a good programmer.

3) Only the toolset was sent to an outside company to port it. Mac development is otherwise done in house. It's too bad about the toolset. It really is quite good.

4) I'm sure the client will work fine when we release it. I don't think that Bioware is noticed for our shoddy products. This is a big game. We had to delay it a bunch when we released the windows version. Quality takes time.

I'm not really in the habit of defending the company I work for from Anonymous Trol^H^H^H^HCowards, but you really don't know what you're talking about.

Re:Why do they do the port? (3, Informative)

chrisabrell (455683) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112994)

You are mistaken about the porting of the Mac Client. Bioware are doing it in house and it is as near to release as the Linux client. They showed some footage of it running on demo machines at MWSF.

http://nwn.bioware.com/downloads/movies.html

It was only the Mac Toolset that got sent to a porting house (supposedly The Omni Group). But the original application was created in Borland's RAD environment and TOG estimated a year to port it.

Macsoft, Bioware's publisher for the Mac version, said this was longer than they were prepared to invest in a port of the toolset and canned it.

Lots of drama and politics involved. Very disappointing.

If you are a Mac user and want to read more check out Bioware's Mac updates page:

http://nwn.bioware.com/about/macversion.html

Re:Why do they do the port? (1)

bicho (144895) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113279)

Perhaps they have a Linux user base themselves.
I mean, seriously, do you think every developer out there is a windows only guy?

Re:Why do they do the port? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5113416)

I think it's telling they outsourced the porting of the Mac client, but kept the Linux port in house. They could have easily hired LGP for instance to port it, or done what was done for Unreal Tournament and get a freelancer in, but they didn't. That makes me think they value the experience and want to keep it internal to the company. Assuming BioWare stick around, I'd expect to see more Linux ports in future.

It's telling, but not in the way you think. Macsoft (and Macplay another Mac gaming company), port tons of games to the Mac platform. They've got a lot more experience at porting, and a lot more profitibility and stability than the LGP. It's very telling because MacSoft is a trusted developer. And LGP is just an upstart trying to get gaming going in a dubious market.

Not to take away from the Linux version though. The Linux version is very important. Plenty more of the Linux users will be hosting servers and writing creative content than Windows users. Hell, if they could port the toolkit to the Mac, I'd wager that there'd be a lot more interesting creative content coming out from them.

And also, as others have mentioned, MacSoft's participation has been minimal. But in the end, this is a learning experience for Bioware.

So what? (3, Insightful)

VirexEye (572399) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112692)

If the linux nwn client is anything like the linux nwn server then I wouldn't even bother with it. The linux NWN dedicated server has given us major problems with stability and being the source of lag by not handeling encounters very well.

I have been playing the NWN client on windows 2000 since last summer. It is stable (as much as nwn can be for it being nwn) and runs great for hours at a time. The win32 server also has stayed up for 12 hours at a time before needing a reboot (this is good for a nwn server).

This might be a big step for linux gameing but it is still not that big of a deal. Anyone who is serious about NWN should just stick to the windows version like the rest of the serious gamers in the world.

*hides from the flaming cows that are about to be shot at him*

Re:So what? (-1, Troll)

Stanley Feinbaum (622232) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112747)

have you thought that maybe it is linux causing the instability and not the game ? Linux isn't exactly an OS built for games, otherwise there would be a lot more titles available.

Linux can game just fine (3, Informative)

Blue23 (197186) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112784)

Linux isn't exactly an OS built for games, otherwise there would be a lot more titles available.

I think you're jumping to the wrong conclusion there. Linux has a smaller market share then Windows, so when a game company has $X in resources and that will only cover development for one platform, the often focus on the one with the biggest potential for sales - Windows simply because there are more people with it.

Linux is gaining share, and I'm starting to see a shelf in my local computer store for Linux games. People start buying more of them, it will become more profitable to make them, and more will come out.

It's market factors, not any inherent limitation in the OS.

Cheers,
=Blue(23)

Re:So what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112793)

-1 Troll, dude.

The OS shouldn't care what the application is. The OS manages memory, handles devices, etc. If the OS is stable, it's stable. No one I know complains much about Linux stability.

If you want to blame anything, blame the accelerated OpenGL driver. I used to get X crashes on SMP systems with OpenGL fairly often, but not with the newest nVidia drivers.

Pity they're not open-source, but you have to understand nVidia's point. That software is a significant competitive advantage, why show it to ATI, Matrox, etc. It's just a shame that the linux community can't participate in bug-squashing.

Re:So what? (1)

The Analog Kid (565327) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112823)

No they can't go open source(even if they wanted to) since they licensed technology from SGL.

Re:So what? (0, Troll)

Stanley Feinbaum (622232) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112859)

I find this argument interesting, as people on slashdot continuously say windows is unstable, when it is actually the hardware drivers causing problems 99% of the time. So I think it's fair to say linux is unstable, even if it's the drivers fault. Video drivers are especially vulnerable. I mean how can an OS be stable if it is only working in text-mode anyway? Dos is stable too I'm sure compared to console linux..

The fact is, the same program, running on windows on linux... runs better on windows.

Re:So what? (1)

JerkBoB (7130) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113128)

people on slashdot continuously say windows is unstable, when it is actually the hardware drivers causing problems 99% of the time.

Well... The NT family is pretty stable, software-wise. I have a win2k installation at home on good hardware, and it's rock-solid for games and stuff. On the other hand, the Win9x (including ME) family mostly just blows goats. Win95b is actually relatively stable, and I know of lots of companies which have standardized on it for corporate desktops. Win98 and WinME are nightmares of instability, regardless of the hardware they run on.

So I think it's fair to say linux is unstable, even if it's the drivers fault.

I don't see how that follows, logically. Have you ever used Linux? I don't think anyone here would argue that Linux is somehow endowed with Magic Pixie Stability Dust that fixes poorly-coded apps so that they don't crash. I'm reasonably certain the that 'stability problems' people are encountering with the NWN server on Linux are not due to the underlying OS crashing.

The fact is, the same program, running on windows on linux... runs better on windows.

... But it's not the same program. You do understand the concept of a port, right? Linux doesn't provide the same underlying APIs as Win32, so while the game engine may be largely the same, all the interfaces have to be changed to 'talk' to Linux instead of win32. Network, disk, etc. etc. etc. If the developers aren't as proficient at programming in a Linux environment, the application isn't going to be as stable.

I'm guessing that you're just trolling, but I figured I'd respond anyhow, in case you really are as ignorant to the reality of how software works as you seem.

Re:So what? (1)

Drakin (415182) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112826)

Actually, you're off base. The issue is with the Linux -Server- Software for NWN. It's buggy even on proper linux servers that serve other things no problem.

It's probably simply due to the fact that it had less development time than the windows dedicated server, as well as the fact that the programmers have more experiance with windows and it's quirks.

NWN is a great game, but there's so many little issues that crop up and are slowly getting patched over, or worked around by the player community... heck, database support (even though it looks like it'll probably be flat file support) isn't slated until march...

Re:So what? (2, Insightful)

Vicegrip (82853) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113109)

"Anyone who is serious about NWN should just stick to the windows version like the rest of the serious gamers in the world."

Anybody who was making a serious comment would wait until the release before making a comment about stability.

I personally am seriously looking forward to this release.

Re:So what? Why would I pay $300+ for a game? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5113115)

You're asking me to pay $$ for win2000 so I can play a winblows version of a game that runs natively under Linux?! Since I don't "own" any windoze OS I would pay how much for a brand new operating system?!? Don't you have a bridge to go hide under?

*Laughs as the flaming cow smashes troll into the ground.*

Re:So what? (1)

yoshi_mon (172895) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113457)

Whatever.

I've read the flames about the NWN linux server and while I'll admit, it has it's faults, it's no where near as bad as some people make it out to be. I suspect that a lot of the issues have to do with unstable boxes rather than the actual server itself.

28842 pts/2 06:23:10 nwserver
28843 pts/2 00:00:02 nwserver
28844 pts/2 00:00:00 nwserver
28845 pts/2 00:03:22 nwserver
28846 pts/2 00:00:00 nwserver

11:54am up 54 days, 18:44, 4 users, load average: 0.20, 0.17, 0.17

That server has been up for several days with multiple reloads. 140+ vaulted users. Custom mod with quite a few scripts.

And for the record, I'm a serious gamer.

It sucks anyhow (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112701)

NWN sucks anyway, why so many articles on this pile of bloody dung? Everyone knows that linux on the desktop and linux for gaming will never, never work as well as MSFT's elegant sol'ns.

Closer, but still vaporware *sigh* (5, Interesting)

dWhisper (318846) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112707)

As a Windows user, I can't wait for the Linux Client to come out for NWN. I want the added people out there, scripting modules, writing content and playing the game. God knows I'm sick of a bunch of little 733T hacker brats on there. Some games are fun, but I've been waiting for the chance to go up against some other people. Hopefully that isn't flameworthy, but if you've played it online, you know what I mean.

This game is the one that will actually get Linux Gaming off the ground. It removes the need for an emulator or middle-run to get it working, and is one of the biggest games in recent memory. If we saw some of the other big guns, like Blizzard and EA doing this, there would be a lot more solid development on the gaming front.

Since Bioware already will have the linux base installed, and the NWN engine is the core of their future RPG games, this looks well for the Linux community. Now if only they would start releasing the stuff out of box like this...

Re:Closer, but still vaporware *sigh* (1)

Mac Degger (576336) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112763)

Oh, you mean like Quake 3 did?

Re:Closer, but still vaporware *sigh* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112814)

there is no toolset for scripting in linux. as it is now, nwn will run under linux, but you wont be able to compile stuff under linux - thats a major drawback and maybe also the source for the linux server problems.

all in all nwn is one of the most buggy games i played this year. and its damn buggy, with crashes happening very frequently. i will for sure _not_ install the linux client when it locks up my machine so hard i have to press the reset button. ( this also happens sometimes while playing quake3 )

Re:Closer, but still vaporware *sigh* (1)

MattW (97290) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113052)

Someone actually reverse engineered the format of their compiled scripts, and there is, interestingly enough, a stand-alone compiler for scripts now on both windows and linux. It is actually how people are hacking in 'database access'. The game 'logs' writes to a logfile, and a parser turns those log entries into a script file. Before a restart, those scripts are compiled, put in NWN's /override directory, and loaded on demand from in-game (referenced using a hash of the various names of objects or PCs ingame).

Re:Closer, but still vaporware *sigh* (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112821)

>As a Windows user, I can't wait for the Linux Client to
>come out for NWN. I want the added people out there,
>scripting modules, writing content and playing the game.

Yeah, except the toolkit will NOT be released for Linux, just the game itself, so Linux people will most likely not contribute a whole lot to the NWN content community.

Re:Closer, but still vaporware *sigh* (1)

dWhisper (318846) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112912)

For now, but it will be a matter of the awareness out there. Half of the content can be done in game, through DM'ing and the such.

And if there are enough people that demand it, there will be a Linux Mod for the toolset. That's what got the client in the first place, isn't it?

Re:Closer, but still vaporware *sigh* (2, Interesting)

MattW (97290) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113036)

You should try playing on better servers. Either meet a group ahead of time on Neverwinter Connections [neverwinte...ctions.com] , or if you're playing PWs, then join something with RP-enforced in the PW Story section, using server-vault only.

I think this game would have been a boon for linux gaming if they'd stuck to their plans to do simultaneous release. I'm not so sure now. Still, I like native linux gaming, and it does raise the bar for developers a bit. But in all seriousness, if you're a big fan, you could not wait until now to get it for linux. Thankfully they don't sell a "linux version" in box, so there won't be bogus weird sales figures.

On a final note, there won't be any linux toolset, because of the environment they built theirs in.

Yeah, so what? (0, Flamebait)

RazzleDazzle (442937) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112732)

I have not ever played NWN. I was so excited back when I thought the Linux client was going to come shipped in the same package as the Windows and Mac. Fast forward a few years; I was so excited when the Linux client was actually going to come out what with the server out and Windows version out for a while now. Fast foward to present day; I don't really care, I am already sick of the game and I still have not even played it yet.

What's your favorite game among these: DN Forever, MOO3, or NWN for Linux?

Screw false hopes and eager marketing liars. I'd rather play the original side scrolling Duke Nukem; Master of Orion 1 was the best anyways; NWN, well I am already sick of it and maybe I will go back to the old TSR: Poolrad, Curse, etc.

Re:Yeah, so what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112919)

I played it for a week and half, got sick of it, and sold it on ebay.

.cab extractor for linux (3, Informative)

H3g3m0n (642800) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112735)

The Linux client would require you to have a Windows install or download all the games data because the files are in .cab format, there is however a .cab file extractor for linux. Would this work and why doesn't Bioware do somthing similar to the installer. It could be that .cab files were created by microsoft. The linux cam extractor is at http://www.kyz.uklinux.net/cabextract.php3

Re:.cab extractor for linux (5, Informative)

Bostik (92589) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112990)

Unfortunately the normal cab extractor does not work. That is meant for "regular" windows .cabs and it seems that Epic have their own .cab format. For reference, go read Happypenguin's [happypenguin.org] current NWN comments.

No movies isn't a loss (4, Interesting)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112745)

I can only say that if the Linux users are missing the movies until they get that part included, they aren't missing much. I didn't find the movies very necessary for the storyline. They pretty much only tell what happens as a consequence of the previous Chapter you completed, which isn't hard to figure out by yourself. Also, the movies consists of still pictures that fade in/out, are zoomed into, etc. You aren't exactly missing any movies of "Blizzard quality" [blizzard.com] . This was kind of an anticlimax to me since the *intro* movie is decent, but the inter-chapter movies are of a very different quality. :-/

Re:No movies isn't a loss (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112936)

the whole sp was disappointment..
just hackslash-get-4-keys.. which would have been 'ok' if it was intresting enough otherwise(by cool movies, intresting storyline or.....)

Re:No movies isn't a loss (1)

pr0nbot (313417) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113118)

Also, the movies consists of still pictures that fade in/out, are zoomed into, etc. You aren't exactly missing any movies of "Blizzard quality"

Thank God! At last, a developer that isn't wasting time and money producing cheesy 3D cut-scenes that you see once (if hammering all the buttons doesn't skip them) and then forget instantly.

Bolt-On Programming (4, Insightful)

Bios_Hakr (68586) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112756)

It really seems like Bioware is 'forest-gumping' their way through this project.

I'm not a programmer, but this seems like such an easy task. They have the engine, the art, and the interfaces. The engine should be good to go. The movies should be re-encoded into another format that plays natively in Windows and Linux. The interface should use wrappers.

Hell, even the wankers using WineX have been running NWN for a while.

This should be a lesson for future projects. Don't try and bolt on functionality that was never intended. Either do it right (cross platform) from the start, or not at all.

Re:Bolt-On Programming (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112800)

I'm not a programmer

Say no more...

Re:Bolt-On Programming (0)

m1chael (636773) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112970)

programmers do not have to do the design, you elitest coward.

Re:Bolt-On Programming (3, Interesting)

dmouritsendk (321667) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113059)

I'm not a programmer, but this seems like such an easy task. They have the engine, the art, and the interfaces. The engine should be good to go.

What makes you think the engine is good to go?
Eventhough bioware used OpenGL to render their graphics, they also used DirectSound, DirectInput and DirectPlay. All which would need ported to linux alternatives. Also, they wrote some opengl extensions for various effects like their (kinda cool btw) shadowing system. Who are to say if they are completely multiplatform.

The movies should be re-encoded into another format that plays natively in Windows and Linux. The interface should use wrappers..

A. I have a feeling that its not the encoding of fileformats thats holding back port.

B. Im a little confused about what you mean when you say "interfaces. If you mean the in-game interfaces, then they are most likely rendered by the engine(probertly by OpenGL, since they use a directx version without directdraw). If its the in-game interfaces youre talking about, they wont be a problem when the engine is ported.

Hell, even the wankers using WineX have been running NWN for a while.

I fail to see your point here, i've seen varoius of PC games under wine. Most of which arent being ported at all.

What does the fact that people can run the windows binaries under emulation have to do with the development of the linux binaries?

This should be a lesson for future projects. Don't try and bolt on functionality that was never intended. Either do it right (cross platform) from the start, or not at all.

How should this truely crossplatform development work then? DirectSound, DirectInput and DirectPlay are standard compontents in most games today, which crossplatform APIs should replace them? SDL is nice, but is just as its name implies a "Simple DirectMedia Layer". And is simply not as feature rich as its DirectX counterpart(especially in the sound area).

I think its important for us linux users to realise that currently, windows OWNS the PC gaming sector. They deliver what the gamecompaies want, a simple method of defining requirements for their game. The companies use DirectX and simply write on their box that you need a direct3d compatible gfx card, a directsound compatible soundcard etc etc. Also the windows/directx platform offers WAAAAAY more potential customers AND the option of porting very easily to the xbox.

I think we should be glad that some companies do ports, since linux has pretty much nothing to offer to gamedeveloping companies execpt alot problems for a very little marked (in gaming terms).

Re:Bolt-On Programming (1)

eean (177028) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113358)

iD software writes crossplatform from the very beginning. The fact of the matter is that it can be done. And what about this Miles Sound System? Granted I'd never heard of it before the NWN Linux Client page mentioned it, but I've been to their website [radgametools.com] and it looks like its competeing with DirectSound and it can compile on Linux (though it doesn't appear to be a fully supported platform.) And more importantly its what NWN is actually using. I think its a good example of the non-Microsoft propiertary stuff that is/can be ported to Linux and be a real benefit for companies wanting to port to Linux.

Granted this sort of issue:
"Support for the wheel varies on different distributions of Linux. " (from the NWN Linux Client page)
is I imagine a real headache for developers and reiterates the importance of standardization. Of course, to some extent the commericial distros don't what too much standardization, because obviously each distros uniqueness is what makes it marketable. At the same time they do want standardization as its good for their consumers. But this is getting into another issue entirely.

Re: DIrectPlay (2, Interesting)

HalfFlat (121672) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113363)

[...] and DirectPlay are standard compontents in most games today, which crossplatform APIs should replace them?
I can only presume that DirectPlay has improved in the last 4 years, but in 1998-1999 I can say with first hand experience, implementing your game's networking from scratch using (cross-platform, pretty much standard) BSD sockets over UDP/TCP was going to be faster to code, more stable, and easier to code.

At that time, all the features promised by DirectPlay, such as master host failover, reliable datagrams, etc. simply were missing or did not work in catastrophic ways (like crashing Windows 98 hard, for example.) At the end of the day, one ended up writing all the code one would for a sockets implementation, but with the added feature of not being able to communicate with any non-Windows machine.

DirectPlay then was a broken 'solution' in search of a problem. Sadly many developers (including ourselves at the time!) were suckered in, and used it regardless.

Given that NWN was supposed to be cross-platform, I can only presume that they did not use DirectPlay for their networking. Even if it were not meant to be cross-platform, it probably would have been a good idea to steer clear of DirectPlay.

the update says (4, Funny)

EvilSmile (547095) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112759)

"You will have to purchase a copy of the game to get a valid Neverwinter Nights CD-Key. Of course, with this purchase you also get a lovely Neverwinter Nights mapkin, a spiral-bound game manual, and three plastic-coated aluminum-reinforced W1nd0z3 brand coasters." Never expected that from the bioware guys =] but a nice touch all the same

Re:the update says (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112857)

And actually it's untrue, you still need those "coasters" to install the game.

NWN no good for me because I lack self-control... (3, Interesting)

weave (48069) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112805)

I had high hopes for NWN and Dungeon Seige to break me of my Diablo 2 habit, but it hasn't happened (much to my chagrin). You see, I lack self-control. Soon as I hear about a cheat code to give me unlimited XP, gold, weapons, goodies, etc, I can't help but use it.

A battle.net hosted d2 world (even with the occasional cheating bugs, which I don't persue at least), is far more challenging. Running a hardcore character that you have had for months and gone through hell with (puns intended) just has far more of a rush and satisfaction (for me at least). If my character dies, it's permanent, and I've suffered a real loss. Death has meaning, and death sucks. It's great!

That must be it, because why else do I waste so much time on an aging game, running the same quests and acts over and over and over again... I don't get it personally, and I guess neither did those two Asians that dropped dead after playing D2 non-stop for more than a day.

(At least I understand my condition well enough to stay away from worlds where I have to pay to play, like Evercrack. If battle.net charged, that would finally cure me....)

In Soviet Russia (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112816)

We only have Winter Nights.

You with heat large life is yours, in moscow we heat make with tables and chairs fire burning. It is hard but strong make us.

Visit my friend www.illmitch.com

Turn It Up, don't be shy, ILL Mitch is fly.

At last (4, Informative)

Tyreth (523822) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112831)

This is the kind of in-depth update we have been waiting for. Bioware I think is learning that detailed information into the development process is actually appealing to the Linux community, whereas for windows users it's typically been vague like alpha, beta, almost gold, etc.

It's been interesting that they have been watching the Linux threads a bit, and our input has been helping. Eg, when they were talking about mouse issues, we informed them that it is up to the distribution/xfree configuration to set up a mouse properly, and they could safely ignore that within NWN.

I hope from here that Bioware development for Linux will grow to work more hand in hand with the willing and eager Linux community, rather than the little information they previously gave. A progression from silence to this latest release has been clear. Perhaps if they decide to port the toolset too they will be even more open and we'll be able to help them quicker!

Either way, I can't wait to play this game under Linux.

And for those who don't know - they previously anounced that Bink (movies) and Miles (sound) were available for Linux when they thought they weren't. They later discovered there was no Bink for Linux, and that is why movies don't work.

Re:At last (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112964)

Please mod the parent of this post +3 Funny, the reason follows

It's been interesting that they have been watching the Linux threads a bit, and our input has been helping. Eg, when they were talking about mouse issues, we informed them that it is up to the distribution/xfree configuration to set up a mouse properly, and they could safely ignore that within NWN.

So, basicly it boils down to this. They had a bunch of incompetent losers, gave them something to do, and gave them something they knew Jack-sh*t about : linux.

Come on... Mouse issues... That's the best joke I heard since Transmeta claimed to have emulated the Sims using WineX, and you only had to BUY the game again. What kind of an X programmer doesn't have a bloody clue how to use a mouse in X? A really bad one.

You are telling me, that after nearly a year, these people didn't figure out how to use a mouse. Have they gotten to the part on setting up ethernet cards yet in that big ol' Redhat manual?

Oh I can hear it now:
Applicant: "I was a bioware programmer and I have experience in using Linux"
Interviewer: "What is your area of expertise?"
Applicant: "Setting up mice"
Interviewer: "Next!"

That's about as bad as the last guy who worked at the company I worked for:
Me: "So, you say you've got some experience in linux. Do you know how to set up a firewall?"
Other Guy: "No"
Me: "We've got some interesting manuals on the network if you're intrested, and you'll find enough info on the Net... Do you know how to set up a mailserver"
Other Guy: "No"
Me: "Well, we're mostly into qmail here, so you can check out some of the setups. I'll send you a couple of bookmarks if you like. What's your favourite distribution?"
Other Guy: "I tried Redhat once, but I couldn't figure it out after it was installed."
Me: "Ooookaaaay... And what position were you hired for?"
Other Guy: "Senior Network Engineer"

Needless to say, he didn't survive his testing period.

to me NWN was a flop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112832)

online the game is more about having patience creating a character again and again on different servers. reconnecting or rebooting when the server/client crashes - and finally quitting and playing something of the quality of quake, diablo or warcraft :P

Sorry to sound negative about this but (1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112909)

It took them how long? How much deceit did we go through? (Come on, you don't expect me to believe that Miles didn't tell Bioware they had a linux version, and then told an angry mob that they did have one) This entire Neverwinternights Linux Fairytale boils down to one thing, YOU HAVE BEEN DECEIVED BY A CLEVER MARKETING STRATEGY, and now Bioware is afraid of the pending "I want my money back"-claims.

IMHO, Bioware never intended a linux client to exist from the start. And they're making one now, cursing every linux geek that bought the game. And I think it'll be a LONG while before Bioware ever makes a linux game again.

Face it, they made choices in design that were never intended for multiplatform development: Miles, Bink,...

Personally I regret buying the game. It sucked compared to the other AD&D based games, and the amount of tinkering needed around the bad design (RecomputeStaticLighting() ring a bell?) to get a moderatly realistic campaign set up... Grmpf... And let's not mention the fact that the toolkit won't be ported. whoops, mentioned it

Yes, you can say I'm spiteful, and you can say I'm bitter. Go ahead. It won't change the facts.

Re:Sorry to sound negative about this but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112988)

I want my money back,

give me my money back you b*tch

Mac (3, Informative)

xpccx (247431) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112913)

This [bioware.com] forum thread started by the product manager at MacSoft gives some info on the Mac port. It sounds like the client is just about done but unfortunately the Aurora Toolset will NOT be ported. Evidently porting the code is much more difficult than they had originally anticipated.

I'm a little disappointed but it will be nice to finally be able to play the game.

Window Manager/desktop environment (1)

bicho (144895) | more than 11 years ago | (#5112932)

Do games require a window manager/desktop environment to run on?

I always thought games would be run stand-alone on an X-server.
Has anybody run a game like this, or do they require a wm?

Re:Window Manager/desktop environment (1)

EllF (205050) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113004)

You don't necessarily need a window manager. If you'd like to run _just_ a game, then edit your ~/.xinitrc so that the only line in it is game's executable. For example, to run only quake3, I'd edit ~/.xinitrc to look like:

quake3

No wm, nothing else. Then, when X starts, assuming it's using ~/.xinitrc, it will only run what's listed there -- in this case, just quake3.

Re:Window Manager/desktop environment (1)

bicho (144895) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113208)

Yes, I know that.
I was just wondering because every screenshot seems to be running under kde.
Just thought the game relied on something provided by desktop environments and/or window managers.
Or maybe its just done so to show and say "Look! its Linux!"

a message to bioware... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5112959)

too little, too late

Haha, they made a joke! (1)

madgeorge (632496) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113031)

_______________________________________________
Bioware came out of the closet to say:
You will have to purchase a copy of the game to get a valid Neverwinter Nights CD-Key. Of course, with this purchase you also get a lovely Neverwinter Nights mapkin, a spiral-bound game manual, and three plastic-coated aluminum-reinforced W1nd0z3 brand coasters.

Ok, I giggled.

Wait a sec. (4, Insightful)

Martigan80 (305400) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113048)

Oh, and you'll need to download the game's resource data or use a Windows install, the CD is only good for the reg. key

Well the reg key is on the book, so if that's the only reason to buy it then Bioware is about to flop on this. This just sounds to a regular person like you have to d/l about two disks worth of stuff-if you only use linux, or just do a mass amount of file moving from one partition to the other. Plus some extra little tweaks. This sounds very messy and poorly thought out. At least UT2k3 was simple, as was quake3, RtCW, and I am sure Doom III will be easy too. So what in the heck was the set back? Poor management that just thought at the last moment that it would be "kewl" to make it for the top three OS's out there? I bought the game and run it on Windows, if I have to go through a bunch of install crap to get it running under Linux, then I'
ll just keep it on windows. Don't give me that crap that I'm not supporting Linux game noise. I do support it but if I have to copy this, tweak that, and download this; then I would rather keep playing the version I have on Windows that is already updated, besides I can use the tools set-unlike Linux where you have to tweak wine or winex a few twists to get it running.

Re:Wait a sec. (1)

Papineau (527159) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113308)

Actually, the official RtCW Linux install doesn't extract any files from the CD. Tuxgames [tuxgames.com] created a CD with a preconfigured Wine to install the needed files from the CD.

It's been a while since I installed Quake3, but IIRC you needed to manually copy the game data files to your installation dir.

UT2k3 was the more direct install. Put the 3rd CD in, run setup.run, enjoy (with the correct hardware).

Even a Linux client won't help this game. (1)

glrotate (300695) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113075)

It was the biggest flop in 5 years. So much buildup, so much hype, and so dull. It was just as bad as Black and White, and that game recieved half the attention that NWN did before release.

Extracting data (2, Insightful)

jensend (71114) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113107)

They really ought to be able to find programs which extract the data off the CDs. I don't know what the format is, but there's a good chance it's installshield or some such. i5comp and i6comp, which are installshield extractors, come with source and run under wine. hwun would do the same for WISE, and of course there's cabextract [uklinux.net] for the Microsoft .cab formats.

I also think that if they're going to distribute a version that doesn't yet have Bink working (movie player), they ought to call it a beta, not a release version.

Too little, too late (3, Insightful)

stevens (84346) | more than 11 years ago | (#5113197)

For multiplayer games like this, I like to play along with my gaming friends. They all bought NWN when it came out, played the hell out of it, and now they don't play it so often. So if I buy it now, I'm playing alone.

Even though the game looks promising, I'll give it a miss.

offtopic? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5113406)

does anyone know why this is on the front page of slashdot? now they're announcing video game updates?
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