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Palladium Changes Name

michael posted more than 11 years ago | from the see-also-carnivore dept.

Microsoft 350

thelinuxking writes "According to this CNET article, Microsoft has changed the code name of its highly controversial 'trusted' computing platform from 'Palladium' to 'next-generation secure computing base.' Microsoft claims that the name is being changed to reflect the fact that Microsoft is 'embracing this technology in terms of folding it into Windows for the next decade.' Also, an unnamed small firm has claims to the trademark of 'Palladium'. Microsoft denies that they changed the name due to the criticism 'Palladium' has recieved, and released the source code to the core part of the software to show that the software is secure and does what they claim." Notice the PR diversionary tactic: it's being criticized because it does what they claim, not because it doesn't. :)

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350 comments

last post! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158035)

...oh wait.. that should be first!

Where is KDE3.1, please? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158131)

If everybody posts this question on every Linux web site, maybe the silence of the developers of this wonderful piece of software can be broken?

Wonderful software, wonderful coders, poor communicators.

Has KDE caught the Debian disease? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158149)

Hey buddy, "it's ready when it's ready". Oh wait a second. That's what the Debian developers are always saying and they're only, what, a YEAR behind in getting KDE3.0 and gcc3.2.

Never mind. Spam away!

Reply to this: (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158181)

Okay. France is a nation of pussies. And apparently Germany is too.

Re:Reply to this: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158282)

If you are refering to invading Iraq, you are a grade A idiot.

And like all grade A idiots on earth, the only thing that comforts me is knowing that you have to live with yourself for the rest of your life.

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158036)

fp

First Toddler Vomit Post! (-1, Offtopic)

I VOMIT ON TODDLERS! (642865) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158037)

I love vomitting on toddlers! They love it too!

Hello? (4, Funny)

dpete4552 (310481) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158038)

Why is it that a $300 billion some company isn't able to hire someone who check the with the trademark office to see if any of the crap they are using is already trade marked?

Re:Hello? (0, Troll)

dubious9 (580994) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158107)

So all of a sudden Microsoft would care about breaking the law? They like to do what they want. Standards shmandards. Embace, extend, bugify and license. Besides "next-generation secure computing base" sounds much less imposing than Palladium. Anything they can do to shift attention away from this is beneficial to implementing it "painlessly".

I'm surprised they didn't take away its name completely.

Anyway I don't think its because some small company is crying about the name.

Re:Hello? (4, Insightful)

AKnightCowboy (608632) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158137)

Why is it that a $300 billion some company isn't able to hire someone who check the with the trademark office to see if any of the crap they are using is already trade marked?


Maybe this $300 billion company figured they could strong-arm the trademark owner out of the name like they strong-arm everyone else in the industry?

Re:Hello? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158153)

Becasue if you've ever been involved in large-scale IT projects from the early days, you tend to find engineers use their own pet names for them. One sticks, get's used as a codename while the project is in development stages. This usually gets released in initial publicity documents.

On the other hand, given that Exchange 2003 is code-named Titanium, I'd wager that someone's been looking at the periodic table.

I doubt Palladium was ever going to be used as a release name, something boring like MS MyVault...

Re:Hello? (3, Insightful)

Ty (15982) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158179)

Because in the past they've just muscled any trademarks they wanted from their respective owners.

Ask the the people from SyNet, which was run out of business from fighting a trademark dispute with MS over their trademark on "Internet Explorer" in the mid 90s.

Re:Hello? (4, Informative)

Zeinfeld (263942) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158303)

Why is it that a $300 billion some company isn't able to hire someone who check the with the trademark office to see if any of the crap they are using is already trade marked?

It was a code name, they were not using it in trade.

An international trademark search costs millions so companies use code names while they do trademark searches.

Palladium was simply one of a list of metals that they had used for secure O/S projects.

Microsoft was never going to market under the name Palladium any more than it would use Yukon or Longhorn.

GOOGLE IS DYING! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158043)

It is official; Netcraft confirms: Google [slashdot.org] is dying.

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered Google [google.com] community when IDC confirmed that Google [google.com] market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all web searches. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that Google [google.com] has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Google [google.com] is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by Yahoo's failure to renew its exclusive deal with Google [com.com] .

You don't need to be a Kreskin [amazingkreskin.com] to predict Google [google.com] 's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Google [google.com] faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for Google [google.com] because Google [google.com] is dying. Things are looking very bad for Google [google.com] . As many of us are already aware, Google [google.com] continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

Google search [google.com] is the most endangered of them all, having lost most of its core affiliates. The sudden and unpleasant departures of Yahoo and AOL only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: Google [google.com] is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

Google.com [google.com] founder Sergey Brin states that there are 7000 users of Google [google.com] . How many users of Verity [verity.com] are there? Let's see. The number of Google [google.com] versus Verity [verity.com] posts on USENET is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 Verity [verity.com] users. AskJeeves [askjeeves.com] posts on USENET are about half of the volume of Verity [verity.com] posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of Inktomi [inktomi.com] . A recent article put Teoma [teoma.com] at about 80 percent of the search engine market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 Google [google.com] users. This is consistent with the number of Google [google.com] USENET posts.

Due to the troubles of Google News [google.com] , abysmal sales and so on, Google [google.com] is going out of business and will probably be taken over by idealab! who operate another troubled search engine. Now Inktomi [inktomi.com] is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that Google [google.com] has steadily declined in market share. Google [google.com] is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If Google [google.com] is to survive at all it will be among search engine dilettante dabblers. Google [google.com] continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, Google [google.com] is dead.

Fact: Google [google.com] is dying

They can change the name all they want (4, Funny)

jdkane (588293) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158044)

They can run, but they can't hide from /.

I wonder if it was these guys... (2, Funny)

iiioxx (610652) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158047)

Palladium Books [palladiumbooks.com] , maker of fine pen-and-paper role-playing games.

Re:I wonder if it was these guys... (1)

skroz (7870) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158216)

I knew it! BillG is a dee-bee! He's secretly working as an agent of Xiticex, and intends to bring down the Coalition and NGR with help from...

Oh, er, there I go cross referencing fantasy and reality again. I am not an NGR Borg... I am NOT an NGR Borg...

Palladium (4, Funny)

Big Mark (575945) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158053)

Maybe they changed it because no-one had a clue what palladium actually is...

Joe Sixpack - "Muuur, pall-ad-ium? What's that?"
Joe Fourpack - "I think it's food. I eat it."
Bill Gates - "No! That's an xbox 2, with trust built in so you can't watch VCDs, DivX, or listen to mp3s on it!"
Joe Fourpack - "Tastes like chicken."

-Mark

Re:Palladium (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158065)

where the hell did Joe Fourpack come from?? was he dropped off from one of those alien space crafts called UFO that SOHO has info on??

Re:Palladium (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158087)

Joe Fourpack is just a regular Joe who is short 2 from his pack.

Re:Palladium (2, Funny)

WaKall (461142) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158095)

Obviously, Joe Fourpack drinks Guiness by the can.

Re:Palladium (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158122)

Maybe Joe Sixpack should consider a career in nursing...he's nursing that sixpack pretty well, at least Joe Fourpack is doing something with his...

Good news! (2, Funny)

netsharc (195805) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158059)

Good news everybody! We have free videos and MP3s! "Secure" computing base? Why are they sabotaging themselves, now this thing has the word "security" attached to it, and you know how MS's track record with security is!

The name is a bit long? (5, Funny)

zonix (592337) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158060)

next-generation secure computing base

Try saying that fast ten times in a row?

z

Re:The name is a bit long? (3, Funny)

Dave2 Wickham (600202) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158091)

I just did. Was something supposed to happen? :)
It does seem a bit of an odd name... Let's rename /. to "big, green, technology news site" and the GameCube to "small black, purple, or other coloured cube to play games on".

Re:The name is a bit long? (4, Funny)

Coke in a Can (577836) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158145)

Technically the gamecube is a rectangular prism, not a cube. Mesure one yourself.

Re:The name is a bit long? (1)

Dave2 Wickham (600202) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158171)

Yeah, I temporarily forgot that, for the purposes of this ;). /me glances at his GC.

Re:The name is a bit long? (1)

mlyle (148697) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158208)

It's not really a rectangular prism.. it has this curved extrusion out of it to carry it by.

Re:The name is a bit long? (5, Funny)

nicething (151303) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158212)

I want a T-shirt that says: "Rectangular Game-Prism"

Re:The name is a bit long? (1)

zonix (592337) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158154)

Well, I couldn't - somewhere around the third iteration 'computing platform' just goes wrong for me. :-)

z

Re:The name is a bit long? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158092)

I think they were going for something along the lines of GNU - Gnu's Not Unix...but someone forgot the vowels, or that just shows the compentency level at microsoft, take ur pick

Re:The name is a bit long? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158096)

I'd say:
All your next-generation secure computing base belong to...

If it was, like, two years ago.
But it's not.
So I didn't.

Re:The name is a bit long? (4, Insightful)

Patrick13 (223909) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158192)

Couldn't we just call it "the system formerly known as Palladium".

It worked for Prince [amazon.com] .

Palladium... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158068)

Heh Palladium is the name of the movie cinema 200 meters from here.

Does this mean they will hand out copies of this "secret project" there?

Yes (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158319)

You fucking moron.

Chiapas criminals in big blue cheese hats! (1)

Yoquimbo (630375) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158074)

I pulled a Palladium Mors in a pack of Chronicles years ago...

Re:Chiapas criminals in big blue cheese hats! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158080)

Palladium Mors originally appeared in Legends.

.Net, Palladium (4, Funny)

prichardson (603676) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158077)

Watch this,

Now Microsoft will change Windows XP to Windows NGICI (Next Generation Insecure Computing Interface) thats pronouced ni-ji-se

Re:.Net, Palladium (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158129)

Why would Microsoft do that? It is understood practically all over the world by professional and novice users alike that the Windows XP OS and Interface is the best you can possibly have. To suggest otherwise immediately notifies others around you of how idiotic you are.

Don't get so upset that MSFT continues to destroy *nix, mac, and linux.

Interesting article (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158083)

I just found an interesting article about the effects of Palladium and secure computing on open source development. Chck it out here [youdontknowwhoiam.org]

hmm (0, Troll)

andih8u (639841) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158084)

I figured for sure they were gonna try calling it MSinux

Re:hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158164)

Naah, they'd get sued by that nasal decongestant firm...

Microsoft "embraces" another technology.... (3, Insightful)

Eric Damron (553630) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158098)

" Microsoft claims that the name is being changed to reflect the fact that Microsoft is 'embracing this technology in terms of folding it into Windows for the next decade.'"

Why does my stomach get a queezy feeling when I read this??

Hey, I got karma to burn...

Because.... (4, Funny)

IcEMaN252 (579647) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158152)

Because everybody want's a secure computing platform, right?

I mean, who wouldn't want a computer that has all its data secure, is immune to hackers, and runs only Microsoft products?

I know why... (2, Funny)

yivi (236776) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158102)

Because all our next-generation secure computing base are belongs to them.

Oh Come On! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158104)

Why don't M$ just call their next OS BorgOS? They can begin at v.8.0 so it looks "cool" and up to date with certain ISP's software versions (wink) and they can move up in version # perpetually.

Confirm the Borg rumors, bring on BorgOS!

In Other News (4, Funny)

long_john_stewart_mi (549153) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158113)

In other news, Ikea has changed its name to Good Luck Putting This Stuff Together.

(inspired by Harland Williams)

Shakespeare (1, Redundant)

grub (11606) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158114)


"A rose by any other name..."

I'll complete that (2)

akincisor (603833) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158156)

... still has thorns. :-))

Did they release a White Paper? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158118)

They should take one from IBM's play book and release a White Paper / FAQ on how Palladi....ERR...Next Generation...Sec*&^*## has nothing todo with DRM and how that is what the bad folks over at TCPA are doing ... not good old MickeySoft!

Make your time (5, Funny)

Waffle Iron (339739) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158119)

All your next-generation secure computing base are belong to key signer.

since no one bought what they said with Palladium (5, Funny)

QEDog (610238) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158125)

If you cannot convince them, confuse them!

Re:since no one bought what they said with Palladi (1)

Vargasan (610063) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158178)

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, boggle them with bullshit. :)

Wonder how much they were asking for... (1)

surprise_audit (575743) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158126)

So, any guess as to what price the current owners of the Palladium trademark have put on transferring it to Microsoft??

If it were mine, I think I'd be looking for a cool $1Bn...

My friends work for MS! (0, Offtopic)

Mdog (25508) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158127)

Am I the only one that is tired of seeing my friends go work in Redmond? They will agree on 9 out of 10 Anti-MS criticisms, yet they go to work there. I am so frustrated with it. *sigh*

Re:My friends work for MS! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158163)

Why, because they won't hire you?

Re:My friends work for MS! (1)

Mdog (25508) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158170)

They wanted me to work there. I refused on principle.

Re:My friends work for MS! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158191)

What's the matter? Don't like money?

Re:My friends work for MS! (1)

Peaker (72084) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158267)

Bah. Unethical people should be shot. That includes you.

Re:My friends work for MS! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158200)

Seems a sensible thing to do if you want to make a difference actually...

I'm not talking about taking the beast out from the inside either, just the common sense route of if you can make a difference, then why not go and make a difference? Hopefully your friends will make MS a better company in the long run.

Re:My friends work for MS! (2, Interesting)

Mdog (25508) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158302)

I've often thought about how much "damage" a mole could do. Let's say I go to work for MS with the intention of putting in little bugs and/or giving confidential information to the open source community.

Re:My friends work for MS! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158202)

Ok.

How many people do you know that don't think their boss is an idiot?

So shut the fuck up. Next thing you know, you'll be saying "Friends don't let friends go to work"...

Re:My friends work for MS! (1)

Joe U (443617) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158225)

Wouldn't that make the anti-ms critics responsible for many of the problems with Microsoft? (The same problems which in turn have fueled the anti-ms critics.)

Re:My friends work for MS! (1)

deaddrunk (443038) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158236)

Because principles don't pay the mortgage sadly.

Great... (4, Funny)

Eric Damron (553630) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158138)

My Palladium sucks T-shirt is now worthless and I don't think a "next-generation secure computing base sucks" T-shirt will cut it.

Re:Great... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158247)

There is a certain kind of logic to all that. Call it Palladium, wait til everyone gets irate and associates the word Palladium with something they hate then change the name. And if you can change it to a name that's utterly unmemorable all the better. Then roll it out.

Call it whatever you want. (1)

Blackknight (25168) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158139)

I still won't use it. I vowed that MS would never get another dime from me, and I meant it.

Don't have to deal with it at work either, we use all Linux.

Re:Call it whatever you want. (1)

glMatrixMode (631669) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158317)

You are very naive for a Blacknight. Did you know that Linus is working for one of the companies behind palladium (there are frequently news on The Inquirer indicating that Transmeta is designing palladium chips) ? Did you know that an asian 'open source' community is registered as a member of the tcpa ?

The future is not bright. Most people, including among linux users, don't want to take ideological positions. The day Palladium will be necessary to connect to most of the net, they will adopt it. You can be pretty certain that some future linux kernel will have an optional palladium mode, and I bet this will be done in some 3.x version. Of course, this is madness since it will make them dependant on microsoft.

There will remain some who won't turn it on, but they won't be able to acces to the larger part of the net where all the media will be available; they won't be able to connect most peripherals and won't have access to entertainment (unless you call gnuchess entertainment); what's more, they won't have to possibility to communicate in any way (including e-mail) with the palladiumised world : so they won't be many. Only some gnu ideologists, and some LaTeX-addicted mathematicians like me.

good (4, Funny)

pizza_milkshake (580452) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158142)

at least it's catchy

Marketers (1)

banzai75 (310300) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158148)

Ahh, and yet another name change brought to you by your local devil-worshopping marketing department.

where's the source? (5, Interesting)

slugo3 (31204) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158151)

"Microsoft denies that they changed the name due to the criticism 'Palladium' has recieved, and released the source code to the core part of the software to show that the software is secure and does what they claim."

Released the source to who? I don't remember seeing this anywhere and a little googling comes up with nothing. Seems like you would want to post it to slashdot since open source users are the ones most concerned about the ramifications of pallad... Err next generation secure computing base.

The correct name for it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158158)

In accordance with Gnu/Stallmans naming policy, the ngscp (next generation secure computing base) must be renamed to gnu/win(64|32|16)/MSDOS~1/drm/tcpa/ngscp/xp/ie/200 0/98/95/ME/NT/BSD/Xenix/longhorn

Before we have any Knee Jerk reactions... (3, Insightful)

manyoso (260664) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158159)

Honestly, people ... Next-Generation-Secure-Computing-Base is not DRM. This is only a tool that will allow computer users more security over important documents. Just because Pallad...Next-Generation-Computing...can be used to build DRM does not mean that it should be lumped in with it. Save the knee jerk reactions for IBM and TCPA.

Re:Before we have any Knee Jerk reactions... (4, Interesting)

sean23007 (143364) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158297)

Isn't that exactly what everyone said about IBM and TCPA? "It isn't DRM. It only gives you more security over your documents, and just because DRM can be built on it doesn't mean that it should be criticized with DRM. That's for Palladium..." I've heard all this before.

In Soviet Russia... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158162)

Palladium Secures YOU!

War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery.... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158165)

Security is Vulnerability

Pallas Athena should sue them... (2, Funny)

vinyl1 (121744) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158167)

...or maybe she could just borrow a few thunderbolts from Zeus.

Enter Ze ms-sql Worm (0, Offtopic)

prepp (465299) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158168)

So everyone just forgot the blasted worm...
We're switching out our routers and servers as we speak to unix...
(postgresql is nice) :D

Where are you taking this from? (1)

pVoid (607584) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158169)

I've heard many things being said about Palladium, but have paid almost no attention whatsoever to them as of yet... mainly because this is still vapour-ware, and whatever is being said right now is most probably zealotism, or trendism (both of which I hate).

it's being criticized because it *does* what they claim...

So what is it that Palladium does that TCP doesn't do that's so bad for you? I've heard of Palladium doing curtain memory (which at least seems like a Good Thing(tm), but definitely is not a Bad Thing (tm) -- in the worst case a Useless Thing(tm) ), I have also heard that Palladium is *not* DRM.

So what's it to you? why are you complaining? Enlighten me, oh gods of OSS.

Thank you Microsoft (1)

ShatteredDream (636520) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158176)

I think I'll buy stock in Apple and RedHat now. I'm sure your users are just going to love having to buy a new PC in order to use your next OS. I'm sure they're also going to love hearing little johnny's complaints that his MP3s and DivXs don't work anymore. Oh wait, don't forget grandpa, grandma, auntie, mom and pops. Yeah, the entire American family is now getting in on the act.

Just look at the SQL Server bug (-1, Redundant)

manyoso (260664) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158182)

Folks, we need Palladium and other security enhancements in this internet age. How else do we expect Microsoft to fix situations like this SQL Server bug that is rampaging through the internet???

Re:Just look at the SQL Server bug (1)

manyoso (260664) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158210)

Oh wait... Palladi...Next..Generation...blah...blah won't fix stuff like the SQL Server bug and in fact has nothing resembling what we normally think of as security. My bad.

Re:Just look at the SQL Server bug (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158260)

Not seen anyone answer their own troll before now.

This is just like the Hollings bill. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158194)

They just changed the name so that it would be harder to remember and search for. They could have made up a new term to refer to their new DRM, or got the rights to the name, but they have opted to use the vague "next-generation secure computing base" instead.

You can easily find stuff about Palladium [google.com] . But searching for next-generation secure computing base [google.com] turned up a lot of people using these keywords, and with quotes as of yet has turned up nothing [google.com] .

future is good (3, Insightful)

jdkane (588293) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158209)

"Looking ahead, we are working on a new hardware/software architecture for the Windows PC platform (initially code-named 'Palladium'), which will significantly enhance the integrity, privacy and data security of computer systems by eliminating many 'weak links,'" Gates wrote in the memo.

However Linux doesn't seem to require an integrated hardware/software Palladium or similar technology. MS is trying to stay in the $. I'm sure over the next Decade Linux can get an interface as integrated and user-friendly as Windows and Macs (look at OsX on FreeBSD). Then what will you choose as a computing platform? .. An integrated Windows/hardware/software secure system that you pay through the teeth for, or a less restrictive but equally friendly, cost-effect Linux desktop system? ... especially if you are deploying hundreds or thousands in a corporation. The future can be bright. MS might just force themselves into harder competition by this secure computing strategy. Here's hoping, because it's always nice to have more than one on the playing field.

The name has been changed because it was too sexy (3, Funny)

glMatrixMode (631669) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158223)

Yes : Palladium was a 'good' name. It encouraged people to talk about it. It was a Name against which people could league them together. Now it's another dull acronym nobody is willing to talk about ...
perhaps even to think about...

believe me, this is the most 'clever' idea from microsoft since June. by the way, this technique is getting pretty common in the area. There were already the dmca, tcpa, sssca, cbtdpa....

I urge people here to find it a catchy nickname before it is too late (it will be to late when the hype about palladium will be over, which means soon). "Big Brother" is maybe not original enough... and also not enough specific (there are other related issues in america, like the tia and the tips).

Not as sexy.. why not NGSCB? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158264)

But if they continue to use that term we could just refer to it as NGSCB. Its not too sexy or catchy, but after trying out with google it doesn't show up as much as the keywords in the new term Microsoft has decided to use.

Same roach, different rock (1)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158232)

"Next-generation secure computing base", hmm, that's a little long, we should just abbreviate it to "DRM".

The fact that it was something that got a lot of attention and gave rise to a lot of misunderstanding

Yes, to be sure, people do not understand why Microsoft is telling them it's supposed to make their Windows security less buggy, when it's obviously much better suited to restricting what you can do with your own computer.

"Best Burgers" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158239)

I have always found that establishments which claim to be 'the best', or which incorporate such claims in their name, to be lacking.

"Seattle's best Coffee" is a great example. It is crap.

I am sure you have your own examples. I have found it generally wise to avoid those establishments and any products so-named.

ah, microsoft... (2, Funny)

DarthWiggle (537589) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158256)

I believe this move pretty much defines "obfuscation." It's easy to oppose, single out, and criticize "Palladium." It's a lot harder to oppose, single out, and criticize "secure network of corporate jargon and words that are put in to make the name longer initiative lemur".

(If you're tempted to mod this "redundant", think about giving me some mercy points for using a nickel word like "obfuscation.") :)

Plus a change, the French say, plus cest la m (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158261)

"the more things change, the more they remain the same"

Scene: Microsoft Marketing

MGR1: "we have an ojectionable, intrusive, likely insecure, amoebic "engulf and devour" program here that seems to be getting a lot of BAD PRESS!"

MGR2: "BAD PRESS! A major change is required to our whole approach!"

MGR1: "Major change?!?!" ---long pause---
"Fine! we'll change ... The NAME!"
--- FADE TO BLACK ---

Secure Computing Base: The Next Generation (5, Funny)

Graspee_Leemoor (302316) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158266)

Secure Computing Base
The Next Generation

Cyberspace- the final frontier.

These are the voyages of the monopoly: Microsoft.

Its continuing mission- to seek out new life and new civilizations... ...and sell them Windows and Office.

graspee

Another Idea (-1, Flamebait)

smagruder (207953) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158272)

Maybe MS should consider calling what was Palladium "Another Piece of Crappy Shit from Microsoft." That's what the whispers call it anyway.

Re:Another Idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5158321)

Or to borrow an idea from Prince, let's call it the "the fat piece of crap formerly known as Palladium."

interesting (1)

gyratedotorg (545872) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158279)

this might be a little off topic, but i find it interesting how this industry is full of companies who are able to regularly force things down their customer's throats and still generate a profit, whereas just about every other company in every other industry has to cater to its customers in order to survive.

Is Palladium REALLY optional? (5, Interesting)

DickBreath (207180) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158284)

I keep hearing that TCPA is NOT the death of Free software. But how can that be?

Here's how I understand Palladium. It is implemented beginning at the hardware level. The hardware refuses to execute a boot sector that has not been digitally signed. Therefore, only "trusted" boot loaders will work.

From here, the trust is handed to the software, and the trust keeps expanding as more software is loaded. Some future version of Windows, let's call it Windows Secure User eXtensions, or for short, just Windows SUX, would be designed to cooperate with this trust model. The boot sector for WinSUX would be digally signed. So the hardware would load and execute the boot sector.

The boot sector loads an OS kernel from disk, the WinSUX kernel. Now the boot sector will not execute the kernel unless it is digally signed. So once the boot sector checks the signature, it passes control to the loaded kernel. The trust keeps expanding. Once the kernel is in control it can run only digitally signed device drivers, thus ensuring security of the hardware, and that only trusted hardware is used. WinSUX can also only run trusted applications, such as Windows Media Player, thus ensuring DRM. Untrusted applications could be run within a sandbox by WinSUX - with certain API's and raw access to the hardware being off limits. Thus only trusted DVD players, media players, etc. will run. There will be no CD audio rippers, because they, being unsigned and untrusted, won't have access to rip the raw bits from an audio CD.

Just as WinXP requires registration to use, WinSUX can do likewise. But with WinXP there are already numerous hacks to defeat the registration mechanism in WinXP. Not so with WinSUX. If you tamper with the code, you invalidate the digital signature, and the boot loader won't run the OS. Or if you didn't tamper with the kernel, then whatever trusted DLL or application you had to tamper with won't get run by the kernel because it's digital signature will now be invalid.

Being able to trust that WinSUX is trusted also allows Microsoft to ensure things that they cannot ensure today. They really could make WinSUX expire after two years and refuse to run. You could not patch WinSUX in order to continue running the OS you paid for.

So it seems like WinSUX does give security to Microsoft and to Hollywood, but not to the user. There still could be remote root exploits in WinSUX, thus allowing hackers to compromise running systems, steal credit card numbers, deface web pages, plant remote monitoring software, launch remote attacks, etc.

So far my analysis has not mentioned open source. Some would say, "If you don't like Palladium, then don't run WinSUX." But this ignores the fact that Palladium begins at the hardware. In order to run any bootloader, it must be signed.

There is no way that Microsoft is going to sign a bootloader like, say, LILO, the boot loader for Linux, unless it is trusted. Now LILO is open source, and Microsoft could say they will sign a "trusted" version of LILO. That is, if LILO is patched so that it will only execute a digally signed Kernel. So, LILO is patched, it is open source, Microsoft inspects the source, compiles it, and signs it. Now you can use the LILO boot loader and only execute signed Kernels. But all we've done is move the problem. Now I can only run signed Kernels. Maybe major distribution kernels such as SuSE, Red Hat, etc could have signed kernels. But what about Joe User who wants to compile his own kernel? What about developers who compile thirty kernels a day?

Of course, I'm sure Microsoft will find ways to make their own internal kernel developers lives easier. In fact, this becomes one way in which Microsoft can make external OS developers lives more difficult, and give their own developers an advantage.

The fact remains that the only way you're going to get a Kernel signed is if it is trusted. This means inspecting the source to make sure it doesn't have any naughty bits, and promises not to ever execute any other naughty bits. Signing kernels also becomes a new revenue stream for Microsoft.

But some would say: "But Palladium is optional, if you don't like it, just don't use it." Do you really expect me to believe that it will be optional? If it is optional, then all of its benefits completely disappear.

If Palladium were optional, then the following scenario would be possible. Put LILO into boot sector of hard drive. Boot up a specially crafted loader which loads the WinSUX kernel, patches it to bypass its security, and then start execution of the compromised WinSUX operating system. Once a compromised WinSUX can be executed, then all security bets are off. I could compromise its ability to run only signed device drivers. I could compromise its ability NOT to run an MP3 ripper. Compromise its registration mechanism, thus allowing pirated copies of WinSUX. Compromise its ability to quit running when it has reached the expiration date. It would even be possible to compromise WinSUX to allow the reading of material which Microsoft might consider "subversive", such as what you are reading right now.

Does anyone really believe Microsoft would go to so much trouble to ensure security only to turn around and make it optional? Optional means that the entire security of WinSUX and other future versions of Windows could be defeated. (Of course this is true on any non-Palladium hardware, such as a hardware emulation like Virtual PC.)

Let's continue with the analysis of getting open source programs to be "trusted". Maybe Microsoft runs a service where they will inspect another OS kernel to make sure it is trusted, and then they will sign it, so that the trusted LILO will run it. A trusted Linux kernel would have to be trusted not to execute any naughty code. Linux is trusted as long as it does two things: (1) only executes signed LKM's (Linux Kernel Modules), and (2) keeps certain API's off limits to untrusted user space programs. (You'll note that this is just how I previously described WinSUX.)

A Visual Basic programmer could write his own toy programs. But he could never write code that did anything naughty, such as play DVD's. Or he could do so only through secure COM components. System level programming would now become something that only a special "guild" could do. Ditto for device drivers.

Would Microsoft relax these restrictions? If I could run arbitrary LKM's, then all bets are off. I just write a Linux Kernel Module that holds interrupts, wipes memory clean, loads WinSUX, patches it, and then starts the compromised WinSUX running on the hardware. The LILO-Linux-LKM just becomes a means to an end of running compromised patched WinSUX code.

So in short, Palladium cannot be optional. If it were optional, then why bother at all? It guarantees nothing to the user. It only makes guarantees to Microsoft and to Hollywood. By making it optional, then these guarantees disappear.

If Palladium is not optional, then who holds the keys to sign programs? If just anyone can get any arbitrary program signed to run on the hardware, then the entire point of Palladium disappears. (I just need to get a special loader-patcher signed to compromise WinSUX. Or get some other program signed that will run my loader-patcher on the raw hardware.) If only trusted Open Source operating systems can run, then this effectively destroys open source. But Microsoft gets to play the PR game of saying that Open Source is welcome to participate in Palladium.

How can they pull this off? Just require all hardware to implement Palladium in order for it to run WinSUX. Most users will happily buy a computer with WinSUX preloaded. So the public will not understand that by allowing Palladium hardware to become widespread that they have just cemented Microsoft's control over what software that you can run on your computer.

next-generation secure computing base? (4, Funny)

pod (1103) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158290)

Next-generation secure computing base? As opposed to the previous generations of secure computing bases?

all hail King IBM, the second . . . (3, Offtopic)

kraksmoka (561333) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158298)

well, m$ started out with one goal, to beat IBM. unfortunately, they have gone one better, they have become IBM.

how much vaporware do they have floating around?

doesn't it seem that they have more expertise in changing their product names, than actually making useful software?

is it just me, or has the marketing dept. been on a rampage for three years now?

they have grown to the point where the left hand doesn't want to know what the right is doing (we know /yank what it's doing).

i think its just a matter of time before the m$ bubble bursts at this rate. they are losing sight of reality at a rapid pace these days.

well, at least by the time they release Windows .Net Smart Server Phone 2006 featuring a Hailladium Security chip, the last of the Code Red, Klez and SQL bugs will be worked out. . .

Next Decade (2)

Alethes (533985) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158309)

Microsoft claims that the name is being changed to reflect the fact that Microsoft is 'embracing this technology in terms of folding it into Windows for the next decade.'

I find it simultaneously amusing and annoying that Microsoft will still be in business for the next decade, thus having that much more time to make our IT lives a living hell with even more codenamed software to trample over privacy rights and innovation in the name of protecting privacy rights and innovation.

Palladium gets a new name (0)

ageOfWWIV (641164) | more than 11 years ago | (#5158327)

Yeah the change has nothing to do with the steamy warm pile of bad press Palladium has received for the last 10 months. This solely reflects Microsoft's decision to integrate, augment and "embrace" other secure technology along with Palladium.

Welcome to Echelon v3.11.
All attempts to copy this software will result in painful bursts of highly focused photon particles from the sky.

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