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Why... (5, Funny)

govtcheez (524087) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198013)

... would you submit a story with "Who really gives a flying fuck?" in the summary?

Re:Why... (0)

vano2001 (617789) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198061)

Yeah.. I kind of wish I could mod down (with my last 2 remaining mod points) the poster of the "comment" ... Any luck slashcode will include this feature? hmmm... ok going back to reality.

Re:Why... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198094)

[He figures he is saving the rest of us from having to say it. Now, c'mon, show him some gratitide:]

Thanks, michael! You're the Best!! Rawwk Awwnn, d00d!!!

[...and so long as he is posting stories about Ximian desktops, there is less of a chance he'll be handling and fucking up the important Microsoft-oriented pieces.]

Yah, michael!! You Da MAAAN, buddy! W00T! More stories on Ximian the Gnome
(or whatever...), my brother!

Re:Why... (1, Funny)

grub (11606) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198099)

The amazing thing is that it was the submitter that made that unneccesary comment and not Michael!

Maybe so (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198164)

But guess who modded you as "offtopic" for talking about the content of the submission.

Re:Why... (1)

red_dragon (1761) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198286)


Re:Why... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198142)

I hate to say it, but I can sense a BitchSlap on this thread already. Don't offend Mikey!

Re:Why... (0)

govtcheez (524087) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198185)

Me too - it's okay, though - this time yesterday, I was at Terrible karma. Post a couple mildly amusing comments, and you become everyone's darling once again.

Re:Why... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198178)

Because he knew Slashdot would print it anyhow!

I'd forgotten... (4, Interesting)

Ponty (15710) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198019)

I'd totally forgotten that they rebranded Gnome. I tried it when it first came out, but it didn't really offer anything that the 'normal' Gnome didn't do just as well (which isn't saying much.)

Re:I'd forgotten... (1)

diamondc (241058) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198241)

they added some snazzy graphics, a cleaner menu system and a new file selector widget for gtk/gnome 1.4.

Apples & Oranges? (4, Insightful)

da3dAlus (20553) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198020)

How many people still use Ximian's desktop? As opposed to Evolution?

Ximian's DESKTOP -> WM
Evolution -> Mail Client

What kind of comparison is this? And as a matter of fact, I use both...

Re:Apples & Oranges? (1)

mrjive (169376) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198049)


I use Evolution + KDE together, it has no bearing on the Ximian desktop whatsoever.

Re:Apples & Oranges? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198130)

Actually, what I think he was *trying* to get at is a comparison between the total Ximian Desktop users vs. the number of Ximian Evolution users

In other words, what Ximian product is more popular?

I don't see why this is relevant, but thats what I took the question to mean... otherwise, you are right, its apples vs. oranges, and it doesn't make any sense.

Re:Apples & Oranges? (5, Insightful)

ZxCv (6138) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198148)

Somehow I doubt he was confusing the fact that Ximian Gnome and Ximian Evolution are two separate products that do entirely different things. I think his comparison had more to do with the particular popularity of each product, rather than the product itself.

Re:Apples & Oranges? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198288)

That is something I figured out also, but had to read it a couple of times to get it.

It was annoying to have to work extra hard to figure out what the hell the submitter was trying to say, but then, I'm a masochist - otherwise I wouldn't be reading Slashdot!

Blame bad writing (-1, Troll)

PhysicsGenius (565228) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198180)

How many people still use Ximian's desktop? As opposed to Evolution?

I don't think he's saying what it sounds like he's saying. I think the right way to phrase this would have been: "How many people still use Ximian's desktop? As opposed to people who just use Evolution without Ximian?" That is, he's wondering if people use the product, regardless of how many people use "something" from the company.

3rd post! (-1)

thr0d ps1t (641973) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198025)

This thr0d ps1t is brought to you by the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation's Model Thr00 Thr0d Ps1t Generator.

Share and enjoy!

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198029)


We do... (4, Informative)

eyeball (17206) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198034)

How many people still use Ximian's desktop?

A lot of Solaris users (including myself) that don't want to spend days downloading and compiling dependencies for Gnome.

Re:We do... (1)

Brackney (257949) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198207)

There are Linux users who still care too! I'm sitting on Redhat 8 discs that I will not use until Ximian makes a new desktop release that supports it. There is NOTHING worse than upgrading a Redhat install that's had Ximian added on. A one-way ticket to instability unless you immediately overlay Ximian packages on top of Redhat.

TCO (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198037)

The cost of keeping the basic Windows-office environment are often exaggerated, especially in case of large organizations. For large organizations Windows environment is as close to free as one can get ;-). Let's assume the following schedule the presuppose upgrades once in every three years) and no corporate discounts:

1993: Win3.1 ($100) MSOffice $500. Total $600
1996: Upgrade Win95 ($100). Upgrade MSOffice 95 ($300). Total $400
1999: Upgrade to Windows NT($100). Upgrade to Office 97($300). Total $400
2002: Upgrade to W2K($100) Upgrade MSOffice to Office 2000($300). Total $400
2005: Upgrade to Win 2002 ($100) Upgrade office to Office 2002. ($300). Total $400
That means that organization might spend on basic Microsoft software $2400 per employee per decade or $240 per year employee per year or less then a dollar a day. In USA that's approximately the same they spend for coffee :-).

Take those numbers, per person, from 1995 to 2001, and then multiply them by 10K users and the cost of ownership for large organization is $3 million dollars per decade. That's not much for Fortune 500 companies (within the limits of a rounding error). Actually it will be less because for a Fortune 500 companies usually can negotiate much better deals with Microsoft and believe me that for a Fortune 500 company the cost of upgrade of to, say, Office 2000 will be less than $300 per user. May be 50% less.

Actually the cost is slightly more if you do not have "unlimited" licenses as you need to add time/resources spent on getting contract, and tracking licenses including a non-trivial controls which software goes with which computer. Tracking licensing actually adds ~$100K a year overhead, thaqt means that it can add as much as 30% to the the cost of software :-).

And you need to weigh this against the cost of migrating, retraining and cost of support of open source environment. I think just retraining costs alone can be around $3 million for 10K users. That means that you did not get any substantial financial advantages for rolling out a pure Linux desktop in a sizable organization for at least a coupe of years.

Moreover, relatively few IS people have good working knowledge or expertise with Linux. Retraining them is from windows is still rather expensive and takes time. In addition, relatively few organizations are running Linux, overall, so the pool of expertise is limited. But you can cut this costs by implementing Unix utilities and several other parts of Unix environment (shell, gcc, Apache, perl, etc) in Windows environment as the first step of such migration.

Over time, TCO of supporting a Linux desktop might become gradually less as Linux penetrates deeper into the market. It has only been considered mainstream since 1999. New people are learning it all the time because the financial barrier to entry is so low. As the number of experts increase, the TCO will decrease.

Re:TCO (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198153)


no company is ALLOWED to buy microsoft software from a store.

and you are not allowed to UPGRADE and UPGRADE!

go away you very un-educated microsoft employee.

Re:TCO (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198216)

mod this chumpy up, insightful. DONT BE AFRAID TO SPEAK THE TRUTH BROTHERS!!!

lameness filter is teh suk

Two words: (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198039)

No screenshots.

Stop reading.

Re:Two words: (1)

LighthouseJ (453757) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198092)

If I had mod points left to give out, you'd get a few funny ones for that. It's the same thing I was thinking. How can you release anything that's graphical without screenshots? Who does that?

Re:Two words: (1)

grub (11606) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198192)

How can you release anything that's graphical without screenshots? Who does that?

Oh there aren't any? Phew. I don't have to leave w3m then.. ;)

Re:Two words: (5, Funny)

greechneb (574646) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198102)

I don't know - there was a screenshot of Microsoft Bob running under linux.

Who would want to even do that is beyond me, it made me sick to just look at it. Its like putting janet reno in a miss usa contest, for lack of a better description.

I still use it (4, Interesting)

bwalling (195998) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198045)

I like Ximian, and I like KDE. I find it easier to install Ximian, so I tend to use it. I don't want to go messing with all the RPM dependencies to get KDE going on my RedHat system. Ximian does it for my in a GUI wizard. Call me an idiot if you want.

Re:I still use it-Self esteem. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198093)

" Ximian does it for my in a GUI wizard. Call me an idiot if you want."

OK, you're an idiot. Although I don't know why you'd want to be called one?

Re:I still use it (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198117)


Re:I still use it (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198120)

Hmmm... I just type in "emerge kde". God I love gentoo...

Re:I still use it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198252)

and eight hours later you finally get to use kde...

Re:I still use it (1)

Alan (347) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198271)

Course, you have to wait a day or two to actually *use* it :) (~19 hours on my k7-900 1.4rc2).

Re:I still use it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198143)

One word:

KDE install is a one-time thing. Then keep it up-to-date with up2date.

Call me an idiot if you want.

Ok. If you're going to use Redhat, at least learn how to use it!

Re:I still use it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198235)


Re:I still use it (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198283)

He said idiot. Dumbass.

Re:I still use it (1)

hdparm (575302) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198255)

If you install KDE at a Red Hat install time, up2date will take care of upgrades.

However, running Ximian Desktop on Red Hat will mess up up2date upgrades of rpm_s common for Ximian Gnome and standard Gnome, included with Red Hat. This was the reason I stopped using Ximian Desktop, although it wasn't bad at all.

evolution (2, Funny)

vexation (461906) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198046)

I use evolution unless you have any better ideas.

Re:evolution-Creationism. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198123)

"I use evolution unless you have any better ideas."

Creationism works out pretty well too. YMMV of course.

Re:evolution (1)

frodo from middle ea (602941) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198193)

hmm , what can't you do with mutt-slrn-calendar. CLI still Rules.

Re:evolution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198267)

you can point and click with ease using Evolution, or any other GUI email client.

Screenshots or Specific Info Please? (4, Insightful)

00Monkey (264977) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198054)

The article doesn't describe anything other than how excited this guy was about the features he saw, which he really didn't go into, and there are no screenshots.

Re:Screenshots or Specific Info Please? (1)

dizco (20340) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198248)

Well, at last he includes a link to a screenshot of MSBOB running in vmware [] , running in KDE. wtf? is that the one worthwhile image to include in a review of the new gnome desktop?


Or Gnome, for that matter (-1, Troll)

PhysicsGenius (565228) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198056)

Germany is going to be using KDE and I'm sure other countries will follow suite once they compare the ease of the use and TCEO. It's over. KDE won.

Re:Or Gnome, for that matter (1, Troll)

TrekCycling (468080) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198077)

Are you implying that we should all surrender since Germany uses KDE (didn't we try that before)? Sorry. I prefer Gnome. Can I keep using it or do I have to roll over France-style now?

The Germans (3, Funny)

AirLace (86148) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198145)

For heaven's sake, don't mention the war!

Re:The Germans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198254)

I think I mentioned it once, but I got away with it!

Ahhh, and the moderators blissfully unaware ;o)

You are right (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198096)

KDE won a long time ago, though. For one thing, it's Free. But some people need their faces rubbed in it before they will acknowledge a loss. (see: Sun and Java wrt C#)

Free? (1)

Dr. Evil (3501) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198312)

With the non-tradition use of the GPL in the QT library, it is certainly free as in beer, meaning you can use it without cost....

However, you have to pay for a developers license to have any freedom as to how your code will be distributed. But even then, you can't allow other people who receive the code to have similar freedom unless they too pay for a developer's license.

But because it is GPL, it is certainly free to have certain personal freedoms... but other personal freedoms cost money.

So I guess it is free like a U.S. citizen.

The bottom line though is that developing QT apps for KDE has far more restrictions than developing for Win32.

Re:Or Gnome, for that matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198116)

Follow "suite," eh? For a troll who purports himself to be so very intelligent, I'm wondering where you came up with the interesting idea of entire populations following behind a wandering hotel room. And it's TCO by the way, not TCEO.

Not that I expect any response from this, most of you masturbatory juveniles usually ignore the larger part of the negative response you get.

Nitpicking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198138)

Do you dispute the basic claim that KDE, like Java and BSD, have lost?

Re:Nitpicking (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198176)

Couldn't bear to sign in with your own account for that one, now could you PhysicsJackoff?

No way (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198141)

Sun, IBM, and Redhat would beg to differ. Does it really matter what Germany does? I don't have anything against KDE, but GNOME development is very active and in the USA GNOME is quite popular.

Personally I don't care for KDE, it is OK but I think GNOME has more to offer in the long run. GNOME is behind is many "visible" features, but I think GNOME is better development environment.

Re:Or Gnome, for that matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198194)

You're wrong, The KDE vs. Gnome situation has produced so many positive results and ideas for both camps, that we have all won.

Re:Or Gnome, for that matter (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198200)

He's also a troll, so he's wrong by choice. Or perhaps not, he doesn't seem too bright to begin with.

It IS Over (0, Troll)

ACNiel (604673) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198215)

And Windows won. Get over it.

It is about choice. It has always been about choice, and will always be about choice.

KDE hasn't won anything. That is like the little kid that takes of running. He gets to the end of the block and starts shouting "I WON, I WON" and no one else knew he was racing them.

I use linux, bsd, gnome, and kde. Depends on what I feel like. Choice.

If I wanted to follow suit with a winning technology that has the most support globally, I would stick with windows.

Re:Or Gnome, for that matter (1)

swordgeek (112599) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198250)

Um...How about Sun? Remember them?

Solaris is going to have Gnome 2.0 as the default desktop with Solaris.

KDE might run away with the Linux market, but there's a lot more out there than just Linux, and Gnome is already set in stone for some of them.

Windows already won (1, Troll)

ACNiel (604673) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198297)

If there was a race, then Windows won. Why is it all about winning and losing. It is about choice. Freedom to choose, or doesn't anyone get it. It isn't a troll, it is a wakeup call. How can you call coming in a distant, questionable second, winning. The XP desktop is really sweet, if you like that sort of thing, and is more widely used. What race was won? The race for second? Discuss. I challenge a flippant post, and I get modded as a troll.

well... (4, Funny)

intermodal (534361) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198064)

my desktop environment can beat up your desktop environment...

Ummm... (-1, Redundant)

clustersnarf (236) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198066)

Isn't Evolution a PIM and NOT a desktop environment / window manager? I mean the Evolution that I use is a Personal Info Manager.

Just wondering if I downloaded the wrong one.

Re:Ummm... (1)

rusty0101 (565565) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198109)

I think he was asking how many people use the Ximian Desktop environment vs how many people use the (also Ximian) PIM. I suspect that there are only a small percentage of Evolution users who also use the Ximian Desktop Environment.

Ximian Desktop 2.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198069)

It's already obsolete if they're using GNOME 2.0 instead of 2.2. I'm on 2.2 RC1 right now, and it's much nicer than GNOME 2.0 was...

Re:Ximian Desktop 2.0 (5, Informative)

l0ki (140176) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198159)

Read the article- it's (will be) based on 2.2. I'd say that with the polish and finish that 2.2 has brought vs. 2.0 that this was a lot of the code maturity and consistency that Ximian was waiting for. - you have to remember that although they are not up to CVS speed for getting this out.. (I know I know it's taken them freakin forever) that they wanted to wait for a good solid "Gnome Distro" to be tested and ready. They don't target this neccesarily towards the techie crowd- but more as a corporate (easy to roll out and maintain via Red Carpet (and RC enterprise) desktop solution WITH a company in the back to optionally support it (important seling point to some mgrs.). Also it's an easy to install/maintain and 'fairly' quick intro to Gnome for a lot of folks who won't/can't/don't want to compile and put up with problems with bleeding edge code...

Does 'being the best' really mean anything? (1)

jeeves99 (187755) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198072)

"I sat down to write with the intent of saying that I think Ximian Desktop 2.0 is a desktop on which absolutely anyone would be comfortable working. It is the most sophisticated desktop I've seen for Linux or any current operating system."

A lot of "the best" technology flops in the marketplace (oh my poor betamax...). Sadly, Ximian might just join them.

Re:Does 'being the best' really mean anything? (1)

MagPulse (316) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198128)

Yeah but betamax and VHS were both usable. Being usable in the Linux world puts you way ahead of the competition.

confusing (1, Interesting)

Boromir son of Faram (645464) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198089)

I like GNOME well enough, but I get confused by their rapidly changing terminology. For example, this writeup makes it sound like Evolution and Ximian are two competing "desktops," but I thought Ximian was a company and Evolution was a file manager.

Actually, I'm not even sure what a "desktop" is. I used to think it was anything behind the application windows, but now I'm wondering...does it have to have icons on it? Does Blackbox have a desktop?

Gnome has been lost for nearly an Age, and now I fear that it is emerging again as a force of great strength.

Re:confusing (1)

Mark Pitman (1610) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198155)

Evolution is an Email client/PIM, not a file manager. Maybe you are thinking of Nautilus?

Screenshots? (2, Funny)

All Names Have Been (629775) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198097)

Thank gopod that they didn't include and screenshots of the new desktop. That could have overwhelmed my fragile sensibilities.

Re:Screenshots? (2, Funny)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198137)

I'm glad too. Nothing like a little vaporware PR hype to brighten my day.

Ximian and Mac OS X (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198119)

They both have an "X" in them!

Michael on drugs.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198132)

Ximian desktop EVERYONE using gnome today uses it. It's rolled into the last gnome release...

and Evolution is a Email/groupware client.

Mike, please learn about stuff before you comment on it.


What I want to know is... (4, Insightful)

augros (513862) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198134)

Will Ximian give me back my view-ports and edge-flipping? Gnome2/metacity/sawfish2 in RedHat 8.0 totally pissed me off with their lack, and opposed stance to such features. Don't they realize how addictive those things are? It's like UI heroine, and I'm jonesing! If Ximian implemented those features along with some other standard missing preferences like user defined key-bindings (right now you have to use gconf-editor to set them), I think a large portion of Gnome users would switch. Go Ximian.

Oh, and on an aside note, is Michael on crack? Evolution vs. Desktop?!? It must be the lack of viewports that's fucking him up.

what a pack of pussies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198144)

Arguing over a WM. Christ, I use "mail" for mail, a frigging text file for contact, and scripting for everything else.

Windows, including the *nix Windows wannabe's, are for pussies.

Unknown Release Date (1) (637314) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198151)

The article stated that they don't have yet a release date, but they're in testing. I shall start salavating now.

I feel all hyped up, like when Linux 2.4 was announced. Oh-Yeah.

Still very useful and interesting to me at least. (1, Interesting)

StarTux (230379) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198162)

Yes I really like KDE 3.1, but you can only do so much to an environment to get a different experience.


Poisoned My System! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198163)

Ximian Gnome worked passably on my Red Hat 6.2 system, but when RH 7.0 came out, and I tried to upgrade, it completely fucked up my system. I got all kinds of dire warning messages about 3rd party software and dependency errors, etc. and even after going in and MANUALLY deleting all that shit, it still complained as I upgraded to 7.1. So when RH 8 came out I finally just gave up and formatted the damn thing and started all over from jump street with a stock RH install. The older version of Ximian desktop sucked rocks. I hope the new version is less invasive or more version-friendly to the host O/S than the old one was. I personally ain't gonna find out after getting burned so badly the 1st time around.


debian (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198165)

If you run debian, for god sake dont install Ximian GNOME. I installed Ximian 1.4 and it broke my debian installation horribly.

Ximian Desktop (1)

KurtzX (642608) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198166)

What I remember of Ximian Desktop is that it behaved like a Windows Service Pack: install it once and you'll never be able to get rid of it, except by reformatting your HD. I did like RedCarpet a lot, but that was all before I started using Debian and apt-get. I still use Evolution, though, and looking forward to the GTK2 release.

Re:Ximian Desktop (1)

Jeedo (624414) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198317)

What I remember of Ximian Desktop is that it behaved like a Windows Service Pack: install it once and you'll never be able to get rid of it, except by reformatting your HD.

What i remember of windows service packs is that after installation you can get rid of them, and no, im not referring to Format c:

Probably quite a few (4, Interesting)

Mr_Person (162211) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198177)

Well, considering that Ximian is the only easily installable version of the GNOME desktop (unless you stick with what comes default with your distro), I would say probably quite a few. And Evolution is a mail client, so that comparison doesn't make much sense.

I do (0)

Erik Fish (106896) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198181)

I've actually been waiting quite a while for this.

clue. lack of. (5, Insightful)

almaw (444279) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198188)

> a number of very nice looking typefaces that exactly coincide with the ones Microsoft ships;
> as a result, their browser renders pages "best viewed in Internet Explorer," as the incompaibility
> is euphemistically called, exactly as if in Internet Explorer.

Erm, fonts != web rendering technology. If it's broke in Gecko [] it's broke in Gecko, and having the right fonts won't make any difference. Or does he mean, "best viewed in Windows"?

What's euphemistic about it? And why does the author call it an "incompatibility" when he means a "recommendation"? Euphemism, n.: "an inoffensive expression that is substituted for one that is considered offensive".

As another user points out, the article offers so salient points regarding any actual new features or improvements, just a general mish-mash. Then to round off it sounds off on a whole load of random mismatched arguements about how free software's wonderful. We've heard it all a thousand times before.

I get so annoyed by people writing pretentious twaddle using words they don't understand because they think it looks impressive, while simultaneously making grammatical, spelling and typographical errors all over the shop. You ain't fooling no one...

Next please.

Re:clue. lack of. (1)

Enry (630) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198300)

"an inoffensive expression that is substituted for one that is considered offensive".

Which describes the statement "best viewed in IE". Maybe you don't remember when HTML came around and people actually wrote pages. By hand. And you wrote it not knowing how the end user was going to view the page on their machine. Or what OS, or browser. And you didn't care, because HTML is SUPPOSED to separate the content from the presentation.

The fact that any web site has a 'best viewed in..' statement means it's broke and the web desingers use crutches instead of good web design.

I've only been with KDE (1)

Deacon Jones (572246) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198204)

I know this is a war for the more experienced users, but with my level of linux experience being what it is, I've only used KDE as my desktop, so GNOME is not something I am against, it is just something I've never bothered to try. It follows that I wouldn't be excited about a desktop that sits on top of GNOME, since I am "rooted" (hah) in KDE.

KDE was more "windows-esque" to me, and while I know that's a bad thing for a bunch of people, for me, it helps with the learning curve being greatly reduced for my everyday tasks.

And speaking of everyday tasks, I use evolution exclusively for personal email now (work=Lotus Notes), and it was a great big help in my decision to chunk M$.

Re:I've only been with KDE (1)

Mark Pitman (1610) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198257)

If you are using Evolution, then you probably have a lot of the base install of Gnome already, as Evolution is a Gnome app and requires certain Gnome libs. Wouldn't be too far of a stretch for you to try out Gnome.

Ximian Gnome & Red Hat 8 (3, Informative)

the_rev_matt (239420) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198206)

I used Ximian Desktop right up to the day I installed Red Hat 8.0. Which Ximian doesn't support yet. As soon as XD supports RH8, I'm using it again.

Gnome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5198223)

Gnome runs decent enough...

my one peeve is editing & customizing the menu on the panel, that blasted menu editor must be run as root or su. why dont the Gnome ximian people make it so the menu can be edited by a normal user and so it does not have any system wide effects and each profile can have their own custom menu, there are advantages to this, like if a user trashes their menu or profile all one would have to do is empty the contents of the .gnome directory in their /home/*user directory and on the next logon everything is rebuilt back to the origional default settings...

Long Development Cycle (1)

userunknown (82605) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198229)

I am a Gnome user and I do like Ximian Gnome but I hate waiting so long between releases. They seem to give it all a nice polish and some value added features but I'm usually several verions ahead of them by the time they release. So I would essentially be downgrading my desktop to use Ximian. I guess there just isn't a Ximian version for impatient people like me.

WOW LACK OF CONTENT (2, Insightful)

diablobynight (646304) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198230)

You see when I go to a link that's going to tell me about some booth at a linux I want some graphical content.

That saying.. (0)

freedom_leffo (605662) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198232)

A screenshot would most definately say more than those 1843 words.

What's wrong with Ximian? (2, Insightful)

phorm (591458) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198234)

When I first started using linux GUI's, Ximian's Gnome desktop was one of the early one's I ran through and tried.
Even now, it's still rather impressive: nice themes, runs fairly quick/smooth, interesting suite of applications. Changing settings was also quite easy.

I've since tried running RedHat 8.0's packaged Gnome, and was considerable less impressed. The thing runs like a wounded Yak, and it's not nearly as pretty as Ximian.

Oh, and as a really nice point for GUI newbies... installing Ximian Gnome was "extremely" painless on RedHat, using a webpage piped through a shell: (substitute "links" for "lynx' as needed):
lynx -source | sh

Who cares? (2, Informative)

SiliconJesus (1407) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198242)

I do and others like me who use non-Linux X servers like Solaris. I use Ximian Desktop because Evolution isn't well suited for a Ultra Sparc IIi 400 mhz with 128 mb of RAM, whereas the Ximian desktop is.

Think before you spout.

hi, slashdot? Goodbye. (-1, Offtopic)

bojan (103490) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198278)

Slashdot has become this piece of shit site. Or let me rephrase that.

- first posts, yeah fun.
- lots of people who don't read stories post about the stories
- lame news articles like this one.

If you want some integrity, stop adding comments like this to your post. "Who really cares?". If nobody cares, why are you posting it?

No more. As of now, I'm not reading slashdot anymore regularly. I may visit it once in a while, if someone sends me a link, but I'm not reading it daily ever again. It's a waste of time really. I could be coding.

nope (0)

john_smith_45678 (607592) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198282)

Don't use a desktop!

File Dialog... (2, Interesting)

ElGuapoGolf (600734) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198292)

Can anyone tell me if they've fixed the file chooser dialog? If they haven't, they have 2 options...

(1) Fix the file chooser dialog. It's horrible. I've used DOS applications from the 80s which had better faux file chooser dialogs. QT 1.x had a better file chooser box.

(2) Give up. They haven't gotten it fixed yet, when will they.

Seriously, it's horrible. I've never had to interact with such a horribly designed file chooser box as much as I do because I use evolution. I love how when you change directories; the filename of whatever you're trying to save disappears. Great feature guys.

Seriously. Give me something with a "up a level button". And put the directories and files in one window, with "icons" so I can tell the difference between the two.

Re:File Dialog... (1)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198318)

There will be a new file picker in GTK2.4 guaranteed.

I'm not surprised Ximian want to keep a lid on it. Keeping us in suspense is a good way to get good marketing if the end result is good (and i'd bet anything it will be), and in the meantime they avoid flames.

Ximian-South (-1, Offtopic)

freedom_leffo (605662) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198310)

Ximian or not, everyone still uses XMMS. And why not spice that one up a bit with the kick-ass Ximian-South-skin which can be found here [] .

why I gave up evolution and learned.... (1)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198316)

Evolution 1.2 was a nightmare,
not being able to access setup details because for a mail account because that mail account was 'busy' ahhhh...... And don't even bother editing the XML files.

1.2 was better but still a right pain, things went funny all the time, I never found out how to prevent line truncation and well, and it doesn't work on the 2.5 kernel..

Anyhow I though I'd give kmail another go, the last time I used it was more than a year ago and it qas quite poor.
kmail is great, there are a couple of quirks, but it's quick and easy to use/configure.

I never used the desktop and I don't intend to use evolution again, unless it get a re-write.

Difference between free and purchase (1)

LoudMusic (199347) | more than 10 years ago | (#5198334)

"One of the strengths and simultaneously one of the weaknesses of free software has been that developers develop what they want to develop, not necessarily things that users want. It is possible, and it is often the case, that developers get great pleasure from producing a popular application or feature, and so are motivated largely by that as a goal. But the market gets distorted a little by that slight disconnect between user desires and developer production, even as it has been distorted (to a greater extent) on the non-free software side by Microsoft's monopoly."

I wouldn't say this is consistantly true. Infact I would say it's primarily true with free software for the simple reason that no one wanted it in the first place. Most of the time the developer made it because they wanted to.

With purchased software there was a need before the developer started. And when the developer is being payed, they tend to listen to the customer a bit more. See Adobe [] for an example.
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