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DALnet For Chatting, Not File Sharing

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the official-word dept.

The Internet 442

PFAK writes "DALnet IRC Network, formerly the world's largest IRC Network has announced that the IRC network has implemented a new "policy" that will phrohibit "Using a channel for the primary purpose of facilitating the transfer of files", as of March 1st, 2003. This will be another staggering blow for the formerly largest IRC network in the world, this comes after one of the many suprises on DALnet, such as the recent DDoS attacks against the network."

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No File Sharing? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221487)

Then what's the point?

Re:No File Sharing? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221603)

Gag, now I get to read tons of posts by warez kiddies talking about how stupid this new policy is.

Actually, it is a great move. Why should their resources be used for channels that title themselves "MP3 trading" or "0-Day Warez", where the only point is to trade files (mostly illegal). IRC (Internet Relay CHAT) is for online chatting. The only 'chatting' that goes on in the warez channels is queue updates.

Seriously, when was the last time you saw a "Public domain graphics" channel or "0-Day Open Source Trading". If I do a channel list to find interesting channels, I really don't want to have my list filled up with warez crap channels.

It's not like they are taking away the ability to send a file to someone. You still can DCC someone a file, just channels where the sole purpose is to trade files is prohibited.

Bravo!

Re:No File Sharing? (5, Funny)

LX.onesizebigger (323649) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221683)

If I do a channel list to find interesting channels, I really don't want to have my list filled up with warez crap channels.

Exactly. I hate it when I can't find a good cybersex channel.

Re:No File Sharing? (3, Insightful)

tchueh (305012) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221696)

Hmm...
No Seriously, the anonymous coward has a semi-good point...

What is the point of IRC without the "l337" file sharing?

Hasn't its chatting capabilities been made obsolete by Instant Messengers and chat rooms such as Yahoo! chat?

Re:No File Sharing? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221736)

What is the point of IRC without the "l337" file sharing?

Lets see.

Real time group collaboration - As often seen there are millions of channels out there which are specialized around some subject. From Web Design to Hardware, Music production to graphics, Linux, General Help, BSD, Magic The Gathering, FPS gaming, Every other kind of gaming.. I can list channel designations all morning here. File sharing is not the final frontier in IRC.

It's a great place to kill time, learn, troubleshoot stuff, get relevant help, etc. IRC is essentially free tech support.

For example, couple of years ago I was vacationing in Palm Springs, in the middle of nowhere. I was in the Hotel Room surfing the web at 4am in the morning with my laptop and didn't want to drive all the way to the closest supermarket to buy cigarettes. All I had was a small package of really expensive british tobacco and no rolling paper. I got on IRC, and joined #help on Efnet. Asked them how to deal with the situation. Some guy suggested to tear out the last remaing pages from the Bible (found in every hotel room), because the pages are really thin and burn like zig-zags. Well, that night I smoked half of that tobacco, and at the same time felt closer to God.

Thank you IRC!

who cares? (1, Redundant)

phunhippy (86447) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221490)

Long Live EFnet!... not a troll.

EFnet for me.. from the start.. and always..

Re: your sig (1)

vistic (556838) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221609)

What if the Hokey Pokey really is all that?(www.evolutionarydeadend.com)


The song does not go "You do the hokey pokey and you turn yourself around, and that is all that!"

Your sig should probably read "What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?" in order to make any sense.

This is me being helpful, not mean or picky.

IRC is for chatting?!!? (5, Funny)

EvilJello (577315) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221493)

I thought it was for idling and sitting in DCC queues? What are these "chat" channels you speak of?

Re:IRC is for chatting?!!? (0, Flamebait)

gazbo (517111) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221514)

We all know that DALnet is for kiddie porn and nothing more.

Re:IRC is for chatting?!!? (1, Funny)

EvilJello (577315) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221520)

Really? Where? Erm.. for research purposes of course... -P. Townshend

Re:IRC is for chatting?!!? (1)

gazbo (517111) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221537)

I managed to shock a few people with that - those who think that kiddie porn is hidden in these secret groups which tak eyears to penetrate (no pun intended...).

If you go to DALnet, and presumably other networks, and get a list of channels matching the string "!!" or any large number of exclamation marks, you see a frankly shockingly overt display of paedophilia. Try it, it's fun!

Of course, back in his glory days, Mr Townshend undoubtedly did more than just look at pictures, given that half the 12 year old girls in the country would kill to give him head.

Re:IRC is for chatting?!!? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221562)

12 year old girls in the country would kill to give him head

Uh. What a terrible image. 12 year old girls play with dolls and think that boys are "yucky" (except the non-threatening older boys on the cover of a teen mag). They might think they have some kind of an idea what a romance is like, but they don't think about sex or go about giving head.

Re:IRC is for chatting?!!? (1)

jez9999 (618189) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221691)

EFNET #c :-)

Staggering blow? (5, Insightful)

Scarblac (122480) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221494)

What do you mean, this will be another staggering blow? They're improving their service. IRC is for chat. I don't see how sending away warez kiddies damages their network, let alone how it deals them a "staggering blow".

Re:Staggering blow? (1)

Florian Weimer (88405) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221524)

I don't see how sending away warez kiddies damages their network, let alone how it deals them a "staggering blow".

Of course, the response of the warez kiddies is the "staggering blow", like before.

Re:Staggering blow? (4, Insightful)

Andorion (526481) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221539)

I think the author meant the term "staggering blow" to be linked with "formerly largest IRC network in the world". Making DALnet warez-free reduces its usage even more, and it won't just be the warez kiddies leaving in droves. Their friends, friends of their friends, and people just looking for the 'popular' IRC network will find themselves somewhere other than DALnet.

-Berj

Re:Staggering blow? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221574)

What makes you say that? I agree with the new policy. It doesn't say you can't share a file, but it says channels where the primary purpose is to share/exchange files are not prohibited. If we are in a channel and I need to DCC you a file, I still can. When is that last time you saw a channel with a title "Free and Open Source Software trading channel". That's right, you haven't. The usage of DALnet isn't reduced to ordinary users, but if you want to get on and open an MP3 channel, then you are in trouble. It's not like people in the file sharing channels chat anyway. Nothing goes on but queue updates/ads.

Re:Staggering blow? (4, Insightful)

Andorion (526481) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221587)

The people who connect exclusively for file-sharing channels might not chat, but the people who connect to chat might frequent file-sharing channels looking for (obviously pirated) software. I'm not justifying the behavior, just pointing it out. Either way, the network WILL lose membership - whether this is good or bad in the long run, I don't know for certain, but I'd predict it's bad news for DALnet.

Just speculating.

-Berj

Re:Staggering blow? (1)

j-pimp (177072) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221535)

While IRC was intended as a chatting protocol, it is used also for file sharing, for better or for worse. IRC servers exist as a kind of public service for the most part, and the public uses them to transfer files as well as chat. The portion of the public that uses IRC mainly to transfer files will be negatively affected in that they can no longer do this on DalNet. What the people were trading is non issue, we're not discussing the net benifit to society.

Re:Staggering blow? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221630)

What do you think the majority of people use IRC for? Look at the most popular channels, they are all MP3, movies/TV, and warez. I don't think I have ever "chatted" on IRC. DALnet is going to become a ghost town after this.

phrohibit?? (5, Funny)

CommanderTaco (85921) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221497)

someone's too used to typing "ph33r" on DALnet...

Re:phrohibit?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221554)

>someone's too used to typing "ph33r" on DALnet...

Nah, "phrohibiting" just means that file-sharing is now a White Boyz Only event on DALnet...

Re:phrohibit?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221595)

but what about the Negroes?

Re:phrohibit?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221627)

Could we get rid of all the Mexicans, too?

--

Euro-wussies and a cowboy POTUS - what is this world coming to?

Re:phrohibit?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221644)

Euro-wussies and a cowboy POTUS - what is this world coming to?

Hey fuck you! Since when being careful about going to war and seeing things in shades of gray instead of religious right's black-and-white was being a wuss?

well no kidding.. (0, Troll)

User 956 (568564) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221498)

such as the recent DDoS attacks against the network

Well, of course people are going to DDoS them, if they're doing stupid shit like restricting file trading.

What are you talking about? (1)

Cl1mh4224rd (265427) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221536)

By "recent", he didn't mean "immediately following the announcement." I don't follow, nor have I ever used DALnet (I logged on once, and did a /list... bad idea), but I'm pretty sure these DDoS attacks have been going on for at least two months.

Re:well no kidding.. (5, Informative)

kaosrain (543532) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221547)

I don't know how you got +1 Insightful: they got DDoS'd before they restricted file trading. The log as to what happened right before the DDoS started is here [realistik.org] .

Re:well no kidding.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221559)

sum1 needs to ddos kossae.com ..........

Fuck DALnet (0, Troll)

SkullOne (150150) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221499)

Glad the shitty IRC network is finaly dying.

The smaller, more dynamic IRC networks have been widdling away at Dalnet for quite some time now.

Yay for Efnet, for enduring through much more crap!

Re:Fuck DALnet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221611)

Spoken like a true Warez Kiddie. The man is taking away your God-given right to trade warez on IRC. How dare him!

Freenet Anyway (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221500)

We have freenet now anyway. DALnet will discover
  1. how hard it is to enforce this, and
  2. how quickly people will leave/turn against them if they try.

Re:Freenet Anyway (1)

Quai (188898) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221518)

Its easy to enforce this. Just filter the DCC protocol!

Re:Freenet Anyway (5, Informative)

pediddle (592795) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221548)

Not so simple, since the article says several times that they are not trying to restrict casual or occasional file transfers. (Did you read it?)

The way it will be enforced is to manually shut down any groups whose sole purpose is deemed to be file transfering. You're right that it could be tough to squash all the hundreds of new groups that will innevitably be created to temporarily bypass a closure, but attracting a supply of users to the new channels could be even harder. Dalnet sharers will have to find some totally new way to go about business that is not reliant on lurking around preset channels, or they'll have to go elsewhere.

Re:Freenet Anyway (2, Insightful)

doubleyewdee (633486) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221584)

The way it will be enforced is to manually shut down any groups whose sole purpose is deemed to be file transfering.


Okay, here's a problem. I have a channel on DALnet which I use solely for the purpose of being locatable so that people can get a script from me via XDCC. Basically, it is a filesharing channel. That's all it is. The purpose for the channel is to get files from me. I am, according to DALnet staff who I mentioned this to, actually violating the policy.

My script is in the public domain though, and I'm certainly not violating any laws. Besides this channel, any group of people who, say, engage in shareware/freeware trading will also get bitten. I think it's a shame that legitimate users are going to get screwed by this misguided policy.

Or we would if there were any hope of it being enforced. :)

Re:Freenet Anyway (1)

MrLint (519792) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221629)

This whole thing is assuming this this is the cause of the ddosing. The typical of IRC server being DDoSed is because the long litany of abuses by the irc ops. DALnet is dreaming if they think this is goign to make any difference at all. In fact if this is really being caused by 'file traders' they are about to get the irc equivalent of nuclear armageddon.

Re:Freenet Anyway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221640)

The typical of IRC server being DDoSed is because the long litany of abuses by the irc ops.

Interesting. Replace "IRC server" with "Slashdot" and "irc ops" with "janitors".

Re:Freenet Anyway (1)

jez9999 (618189) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221699)

And you get.... a sentance with pretty much no meaning whatsoever.

Won't miss it (1)

Zog The Undeniable (632031) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221506)

Like FTP, ICQ, NetMeeting, e-mail and P2P applications aren't enough? ChatZilla doesn't do file transfers anyway!

Whew! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221507)

As long as they leave #xxxpassworld up thats fine with me!

Re:Whew! (5, Funny)

Leoric (540150) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221615)

Is this the first time a #channel is slashdotted?

IRC sucks for file sharing (2, Insightful)

Daniel_E (75554) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221509)

IRC sucks for file sharing anyway, so why would it be a blow to the network if they restricted it?

I fail to see the problem!

Re:IRC sucks for file sharing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221661)

I was grabbing MP3s years before Napster came around. Also downloaded every episode Kenshin before it was released in the US. IRC remains the best (and pretty much only) place to get emulator ROMs. IRC file grabbing can be time consuming (You are #69 in queue), but it did the job.

Re:IRC sucks for file sharing (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Hack (637833) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221700)

Me too. I used IRC for years, and DCC was always the number one shittiest thing on it. It takes ten times as long as it would to transfer the same file over HTTP. Even FTP for crying out loud. Most of my... umm... larger downloads came from usenet (w00t for uuencoding), then the web, and more recently friends' FTP sites. I just don't understand how DCC got so popular amongst the warez/mp3 crowd.

don't matter (2, Informative)

jkcity (577735) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221519)

It does not matter anyway cause any file server worth going on left dalnet a long time ago and they ain't coming back.

DALnet For Goatse! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221521)

*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_
g_______________________________________________g_ _
o_/_____\_____________\____________/____\_______o_ _
a|_______|_____________\__________|______|______a_ _
t|_______`._____________|_________|_______:_____t_ _
s`________|_____________|________\|_______|_____s_ _
e_\_______|_/_______/__\\\___--___\\_______:____e_ _
x__\______\/____--~~__________~--__|_\_____|____x_ _
*___\______\_-~____________________~-_\____|____*_ _
g____\______\_________.--------.______\|___|____g_ _
o______\_____\______//_________(_(__>__\___|____o_ _
a_______\___.__C____)_________(_(____>__|__/____a_ _
t_______/\_|___C_____)/______\_(_____>__|_/_____t_ _
s______/_/\|___C_____)_______|__(___>___/__\____s_ _
e_____|___(____C_____)\______/__//__/_/_____\___e_ _
x_____|____\__|_____\\_________//_(__/_______|__x_ _
*____|_\____\____)___`----___--'_____________|__*_ _
g____|__\______________\_______/____________/_|_g_ _
o___|______________/____|_____|__\____________|_o_ _
a___|_____________|____/_______\__\___________|_a_ _
t___|__________/_/____|_________|__\___________|t_ _
s___|_________/_/______\__/\___/____|__________|s_ _
e__|_________/_/________|____|_______|_________|e_ _
x__|__________|_________|____|_______|_________|x_ _
*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_e_x_*_


Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

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hehe ^_^ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221522)

People still use DCC? Bah. Long live FTP! :P

-Gwala

Sharing files on Dalnet.. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221523)

Nobody really shares files on dalnet anyhow...

Sure.. they get queued up for sends, but Dalnet's been so unreliable in the past that you never actually get any bytes transferred. You can pretty much guarantee that as soon as your back is turned you'll get disconnected.

Come to think of it, I never found warez on Dalnet in the first place... nitro, criten, newnet all seem better candidates for that kind of thing.

Conspiracy Theory (5, Funny)

suss (158993) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221525)

[conspiracy mode on]
Think the RIAA were DDoSing them all this time and they finally surrendered to their terms?
[conspiracy mode off]

Re:Conspiracy Theory (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221551)

I do so wish there were a "-1, Stupid" moderation.

Before making new rules... (5, Insightful)

ATAMAH (578546) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221527)

...i think they should concentrate on bringing their network back up after the above mentioned attacks. Unfortunately they are not the only ones to experience these, Undernet has suffered from pretty much the same stuff not so long ago. And for those shouting "yay to efnet" - as sad as it is, but its only a matter of time till some idiot assembles a floodnet and aims at EFnet, destroying another free, non-profit internet resource for no reason.

Re:Before making new rules... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221710)

At least I can connect to Undernet these days. When I try to connect to irc.dal.net, I either get errors (for example right this very second I'm getting * Unable to connect (Can't assign requested address) errors), or disconnect because somebody from my ISP (SBC) got k-lined and the whole ISP got banned.

Re:Before making new rules... (1)

ATAMAH (578546) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221721)

Um... dal.net is down due to Denial of Service Attacks, if you haven't quite understood it yet :) DALnet's admins are working on reviving the network, and temporarily launch a server or two, but for short periods of time - just to carry out tests.

Not a blow (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221534)

It isn't a blow for IRC, its a house cleaning act.

Disclaimer: Any resemblance between the above views and those of my employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely coincidental. Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of the reader is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. (A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the scope of this discussion.)

IP not banned yet, might as well post again! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221541)

*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_
g_______________________________________________g_ _
o_/_____\_____________\____________/____\_______o_ _
a|_______|_____________\__________|______|______a_ _
t|_______`._____________|_________|_______:_____t_ _
s`________|_____________|________\|_______|_____s_ _
e_\_______|_/_______/__\\\___--___\\_______:____e_ _
x__\______\/____--~~__________~--__|_\_____|____x_ _
*___\______\_-~____________________~-_\____|____*_ _
g____\______\_________.--------.______\|___|____g_ _
o______\_____\______//_________(_(__>__\___|____o_ _
a_______\___.__C____)_________(_(____>__|__/____a_ _
t_______/\_|___C_____)/______\_(_____>__|_/_____t_ _
s______/_/\|___C_____)_______|__(___>___/__\____s_ _
e_____|___(____C_____)\______/__//__/_/_____\___e_ _
x_____|____\__|_____\\_________//_(__/_______|__x_ _
*____|_\____\____)___`----___--'_____________|__*_ _
g____|__\______________\_______/____________/_|_g_ _
o___|______________/____|_____|__\____________|_o_ _
a___|_____________|____/_______\__\___________|_a_ _
t___|__________/_/____|_________|__\___________|t_ _
s___|_________/_/______\__/\___/____|__________|s_ _
e__|_________/_/________|____|_______|_________|e_ _
x__|__________|_________|____|_______|_________|x_ _
*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_e_x_*_


Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Wheeeee!!!!!!!!!!

File sharing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221544)

Do people still need to use IRC for file sharing? You have Kazaa, ftp and lots of other easier more reliable methods.

StevenLC (who forgot his /. password again)

Michael Jackson - loser and pervert extraordinaire (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221549)

Jesus Christ! What the hell is wrong with this man [telegraph.co.uk] ?

Kids sleeping in his bed, too shy to have sex with women... is that the reason he likes kiddies so much? Can't handle an adult woman so he molests children on his "ranch".

Re:Michael Jackson - loser and pervert extraordina (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221572)

Michael Jackson. All this bad mouthing, putting the man down, so maybe he did touch some children now and then. But come on it's Michael Jackson! Michael Jackson!!

what does this have to do with rights online? (4, Insightful)

Jondor (55589) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221561)

Since when does anyone has the "right" on filesharing over IRC??

Re:what does this have to do with rights online? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221650)

>Since when does anyone has the "right" on filesharing over IRC??

This statement isn't aimed at you personally, but I'm growing tired of every YRO story filling up with comments about "why is this in YRO?"

That said, I'll answer the question. Slashdot does not have a "Rules and Regulations Online" category. There isn't an "Internet Policies and Practices" category. Maybe one of these should be created, or maybe it's not necessary. YRO seems to be the most appropriate section for this story.

No, the "right" to filesharing is not written into the US Constitution or any other country's equivalent. Nor is the "right" to be awake at four o'clock in the morning, the "right" to drink a case of Mountain Dew a day, or the "right" to roll my toilet paper over instead of under. But until someone tells me otherwise, I'll consider all of those things to be among my rights, because I have not been expressly prohibited or forbidden from doing them.

In that light, filesharing has always been a "right" on DALnet, but will be no longer as of March 1st. Yes, the word "privileges" would certainly be more applicable than "rights" in all of the above scenarios. But "Your Privileges Online" doesn't have such a nice ring to it...

Re:what does this have to do with rights online? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221670)

Since when does anyone has the "right" on filesharing over IRC??

Since someone owns the copyright to the file they're sharing. Don't fall for the propaganda so much that you see "filesharing" and "illegal filesharing" as the same thing.

What's the point? (5, Interesting)

Munra (580414) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221565)

A lot of people seem to be asking "What's the point of an IRC service that prevents file users sharing warez?".

Well, if there was no point, why would the (arguably) largest IRC network [netsplit.de] have a very strict anti-warez [quakenet.org] rules? That's Quakenet [quakenet.org] , by the way - and yes, it is my choice of IRC network.

Clearly there is a demand for a warez-free (OK, no specific file transfer channel) network. And yes, I've just continued the trend and said "Don't worry, the IRC network I use rocks, even if Dalnet sucks!" ;)

Re:What's the point? (1)

jez9999 (618189) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221709)

Indeed, Quakenet is the largest IRC network. But people don't so much talk about stuff on there as arrange clan matches. And talk about clans. And that's pretty much it. In fact, unelss you're interested in talking about your clan, in which case you'll be fine as pretty much all of the trillion and one clans in existance have a channel on Quakenet, you'll be pretty much stuck for half-interesting conversation on there. Belive me, I've tried it.

You could at least have used EFNET as an example, where there is quite a lot of interesting chat. But there are also filesharing channels. The two uses of the network sit side-by-side, with very few problems.

Re:What's the point? (3, Funny)

Munra (580414) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221719)

I disagree.

There are a lot of non-specific clan channels that have friendly banter. Banter, anyway :) Also, a lot of clan channels very rarely talk about clan stuff, or even gaming stuff. In fact, we talk about clan specific so rarely in #tjd, we often stray into geeky/technical discussions. My most recent favourite culminated in deciding that Ian Flemming was secretly a coder:

#tjd sad topic for the day. =/ Today we have been proving that Ian Fleming was a geek:

Daemons are Forever

The World is Not Enum

function Tomorrow()
{
return 1;
die("I'm dead");
}

while (!true) say("never again");

07016534671571

die("another day");

$ ps aux | grep daylights
jil01 5980 0.0 0.4 1544 580 pts/2 S 13:40 0:00 daylights

(!enough)?The World:;

for (i=1;i=2; i++) YouOnlyLive();

Select * FROM Russia WITH love;

You get the idea! :)

hmmm.... (1)

gasgesgos (603192) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221568)

If DALnet comes back up because of a policy such as this, then doesn't it indicate that the DoS attackers would benefit by the elimination of file sharing?
so then, wouldn't the main groups that would benefit from this new policy the RIAA and the MPAA? hmmm... imagine that... DALnet goes back up, and no filesharing occurs, everyone wins. except the filesharers...

makes you wonder who was actually behind the attacks.

/usr/games/fortune (0, Troll)

{X-Frog} (122801) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221569)

DalNet is like the special olympics of IRC. There's a lot of
drooling goin' on and everyone is a 'winner'.
---

Why is "policy" in quotation marks? (3, Interesting)

TheFrood (163934) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221570)

From the article:
DALnet IRC Network, formerly the world's largest IRC Network has announced that the IRC network has implemented a new "policy" that will phrohibit...

Why is the word "policy" in quotation marks here? I assume these are supposed to be "sarcastic quotation marks", as in
I'm not hungry; I ate a McDonald's "hamburger" for lunch.

or
The RIAA is taking strong steps to "protect" artists from peer-to-peer filesharing.

or
I installed Microsoft's new "improved" version of Windows, and the additional "features" made my computing experience much more "enjoyable".

But in this case, I don't see why you would sarcastically call the new rules a "policy". They are a policy.

(Oh, that's on top of misspelling "prohibit". Nice work, dude.)

TheFrood

Re:Why is "policy" in quotation marks? (0, Offtopic)

jez9999 (618189) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221687)

Perhaps the poster is signifying that 'policy' is a rather incorrect word for the new rules; 'act of idiocy' may be a more appropriate phrase.

Re:Why is "policy" in quotation marks? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221714)

Well, that's how I read it.
Just the same as

I'm not hungry; I ate a McDonald's "hamburger" for lunch.

McDonalds do sell hambergers, just not ones that you would like to call hambergers.

This is a new policy, just not one that you would like to call a policy.

How come the PP got modded up?

MOD PARENT DOWN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221717)

-2 numpty.

and a smelling freek.

I drove my "car" to work today. (well most people wouldn't call it a car)

Bad idea.. (5, Insightful)

doubleyewdee (633486) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221571)

As a former DALnet operator / administrator and a rather long time user I can say that DALnet is simply continuing to shoot at an already bloody and bullet-riddled foot.

Way back in the day there was a lot of talk about banning child pornography (which is something that everyone can actually agree is morally wrong, as well as illegal). It was decided not to, on what I think was good advice, because the second you become a moderator of content you open yourself up to legal trouble if you fail to properly moderate that content.

Now some might say that DALnet isn't actually moderating any content, because it's worded in such a way that it simply disallows the channels. However, to disallow these channels DALnet must explicitly moderate content. It must find this 'abusive' content and put an end to it, thereby making it a moderator.

It is, in fact, the official position of DALnet staff (or so I hear) that this is the belief on the network. That the way this clause in their AUP [dal.net] is written prevents them from being considered a moderator. I think this is a big mistake on their part, and will ultimately come back to haunt them.

That said, DALnet has a long history of being utterly incapable of enforcing their own policies, and this is just one more of them that will probably not ever see any real enforcement. For example, DALnet was (when people could get on it) the haven of mass advertising, not to mention a breeding ground for drones and IRC worms. Despite some futile attempts to stop these activities, DALnet has been basically completely incapable of doing any serious work on these fronts.

To add to this, DALnet and its sponsors have been beleaguered by kiddies with a massive array of DDoS weaponry. They have utterly failed to address the issues which have, in large part, led to their current troubles. The main issue is that DALnet harbors a group of extremely absuive operators who basically take enjoyment out of pissing off the kiddies because they feel "invulnerable." Instead of actually just removing these destructive individuals, DALnet has kept them on and "told them not to do it anymore." Basically tantamount to saying "we don't care, keep DDoSing us."

I don't think that the few people left on DALnet right now need to worry too much about this policy, it won't likely be enforced much, if at all.

Not everyone agrees. case in point: micheal jackso (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221589)

why just recently he admitted that he likes sleeping with children and has repeatedly done so.
platonically. of course, in the same breath, he says he's never had plastic surgery.

Re:Bad idea.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221722)

Very mature of you to grind that axe even more.

Re:Bad idea.. (1)

ATAMAH (578546) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221735)

I don't quite understand the "legal problems" you talk about... What happenned to a "being on this IRC network is not a right, but a privleledge. Access to it may be revoked without notice." (Or similar) in the MOTD ? I mean, why should you have to explain the reasons for banning some sort of content from your network? Who would request this explanation in such a way, that these requests cannot simply be ignored ?

EFNet (1)

M3wThr33 (310489) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221582)

EFNet, hi, I've know you for a while... I guess I'm going to get to know you better now.
"Think F as in files... Think F as in files..."
Of course, on that note, I would have thought D in DALNet would be "downloading". ;-)

They've just escalated! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221591)

I have been engaged in a die-hard DDOS campaign against the despised DALnet network. I was actually getting bored of it though, and was thinking of hanging up the towel. HOWEVER. This decision is a slap in the freedom of users and hax0rs everywhere. I am going to get even MORE hardcore on my DDOS attacks, and I've got no doubt my fellow hax0rs will be more than happy to help. Goodbye, DALnet...see you in hell!

Re:They've just escalated! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221622)

Haha. Do you have any idea how pathetic you sound?

Probably not.

Would it help? (3, Insightful)

John_Renne (176151) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221602)

I'm a little confused by this step. Do they really think file sharing has anything to do with the DDoS attacks? Just who do they think DDoS-ed them all the time. My guess it's the kiddies that love file-sharing.

I'm not saying you should facilitate them but by pissing 'm off there's no way the DDoS attacks will stop. Ignoring just might be the way to go. But then again, that's just my 2 cents

Re:Would it help? (1)

doubleyewdee (633486) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221637)

I'm a little confused by this step. Do they really think file sharing has anything to do with the DDoS attacks? Just who do they think DDoS-ed them all the time. My guess it's the kiddies that love file-sharing.

No. This has nothing at all to do with the DDoS attacks. This is just an attempt by DALnet to pull a CYA maneuver. They're preemptively trying to counter the *AA agencies. I doubt it will work.

I'm not saying you should facilitate them but by pissing 'm off there's no way the DDoS attacks will stop. Ignoring just might be the way to go. But then again, that's just my 2 cents

Yes, you're right. But the DDoS attacks have more to do with abusive operators. Still, you speak for a large group of people who think DALnet should stop antagonizing these people, at least if it wants to continue operating.

Rationae (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221633)

So anotherwords, they became sick of having to deal with people who were sharing child pr0n and mp3s/mpegs?

hahahahha (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221635)

dal was always freakin lame .. all the fuckwads
that got chased off of efnet wound up there ..

of course, efnet wound up a haven for assholes,
too .. pretty much like any public chat network

or, for that matter, open message boards ;)

I envision.... (5, Funny)

gladbach (527602) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221645)

These *illegal file sharing* channels to suddenly start saying they are Trivia channels, that just happen to share files secondary....

Because god knows every channel on Dalnet seems to have some lamo trivia bot or three....

Bandwidth will be saved .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221648)

...as less files will be transferred and thus quick replies, which can be imp in formal chats

Information needed (1, Insightful)

fateswarm (590255) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221651)

At this point it would be nice an interview to the IRC admins of DALnet to find out whether this is a result of a legal threat or just their opinion.

Maybe they got the attention of media after their DoS attack hence the attention of legal authorities? who knows, but I'd be really interested to find out.

And btw, yes, it is mostly warez what is shared on IRC.

To be honest, I've never seen "legal" anything being shared on irc except via DCC between users, on bots there is always some kind of illegal distrbution or just at the 99.9% of the time.

Cleaning up the internet (2, Insightful)

kfg (145172) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221656)

Well good on them. This is one small step in right direction. Now all they have to do is figure out a way to prevent all that unregulated "chat" sharing and rampant free exchange of "information" and the internet will, once again, be free for democracy and automatic shopping by net "enabled" refrigerators.

KFG

EFNet? (1)

Tokerat (150341) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221659)

I thought EFNet was the largest IRC network? Or was it just the most popular? Grr it's been tool long since I've been on IRC...

Re:EFNet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221697)

Long time ago... Now it's quakenet that owns all :x

Re:EFNet? (1, Informative)

fateswarm (590255) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221701)

Maybe it's the one with the most servers. The most crowded right now according to googleX is Quakenet (yeah, I know, most people don't even knew it existed, perhaps because it's mostly kids there and no file sharing channels at all)

and BTW.. (0)

fateswarm (590255) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221664)

Most people that share movies and stuff on irc are no longer using Dalnet or Undernet, not even EFnet or the most crowded of all, Quakenet(yes, it is the most popular). It is small well hidden or just not popular enough to get the attention of most people private servers of 5-10 channels that first hit releases.

Somehow, I just don't get it... (4, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221677)

Seriously, since when did DCCs impair or otherwise affect the normal operation of Dalnet? They don't run over the "dalnet", but apart from a few simple negotiation messages it runs completely separate of it. That D in DCC stands for Direct, you know.

And unlike Napster/KaZaA, IRC does not come with built-in search, a good file server, minimum shared, quotas or "ranking" of contribution. Nothing that should bring them at legal risk unless paper manufacturers gets sued for what you can write on the paper.

Also, will this mean that OPs will start logging DCCs and crossreference with the channels you're on to determine if a channel is being used to transfer files? Or is this some "Uh, yeah if we see 'em" policy? Because the first would be a rather big invasion of privacy, the second would simply lead to more hidden channels...

But I suppose everyone that cared about chatting has found a more stable home than Dalnet in the last month or two anyway (we did), why not scare off the file traders (that usually only care about making their sends/gets connected) too...

Kjella

Re:Somehow, I just don't get it... (0)

fateswarm (590255) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221694)

They can still be sued as a "media of distribution of copyright violating content".

The can't log dccs due to the dcc protocol, only dcc initiation requests.

I agree, it became so unstable, it was not proper for chat, now not even for file traders.

Perhaps it will become more stable now, but I guess, most servers will be out after this

so what, (5, Interesting)

gladbach (527602) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221689)

Everyone is starting to use bit torrent anyways. Sure, a lot of it goes on in irc, but also on websites, instant message etc.

This explains... (1)

imevil (260579) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221707)

why everybody is moving to irc-chat [irc-chat.org] .

Hmm (2, Insightful)

Amtiskaw (591171) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221711)

Well most of the warez channels have left the network anyway. I guess they decided to take advantage of the opportunity to introduce this policy, without being faced with thousands of existing channels to shut down. Although it does seem a little weird for a network that has lost 100000 users in the past year to start kicking channels off the network.

Re:Hmm (1)

fateswarm (590255) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221723)

Most channels are not owned by DALnet operators. That fact exists on EFnet and other networks that refuse to accept the fact that services are usefull so their operators become very, very, "protective" of their channels.

Most DALnet channels that switched networks did it to make their own networks so they can be popular from day 0 having already 200-1000 members.

Topics that prove that included stuff like "DALnet has proven once more how unstable it is, use /server lalala.org and join #wareX" etc. etc.

sigh. (2, Interesting)

clfrd (545421) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221713)

the servers on dalnet used to have a little message in their motd's about irc being an "unmoderated medium". apparently, this is no longer the case.

i can only speculate about why this policy is being enacted, but as far as the result, wd had it pegged. they're shooting themselves in the foot. if it's enforced at all, a good chunk of the users that stuck around despite the recent attacks will abandon it without a moments hesitation.

as well, this will undoubtedly upset someone with the means to launch an attack equivalent to the attacks they suffered recently.

this is a bad idea, and they know it.

as a side note, support for this policy on the (moderated) mailing list is overwhelming!

Not to sound paranoid... (2, Insightful)

Neferkara (531096) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221718)

But the RIAA hasn't exactly taken the moral high ground in the file sharing wars. Did anybody consider that perhaps it was the RIAA or somebody hired by them to conduct the attacks on DALnet? I used to log in to DALnet when I could, and checked out one of the mp3 rooms and I could see where the RIAA would want to put a stop to them.

noooo! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221725)

oh well. most chans i was in (chat and file) moved to other nets because of the downtime caused by the ddos...

does this mean they will finally crackdown on spam now? or is it "kill fileswappers, spam the normal chatters"?

if so, dalnet is just purely doomed. it was a good run anyways. cya! R.I.P.

SILC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5221727)

Good reason to move towards secured chat networks.

SILC - http://www.silcnet.org/

No filesharing, no this, no that... (2, Interesting)

mrselfdestrukt (149193) | more than 11 years ago | (#5221730)

Man! The more I read stuff like this the more I long for a society where information can be free.
Just think where we would've been today if we were allowed access to all and any information. Well, it would probably be overrun by porn and spam.. Nevermind.
Anyhoo.. I don't chat on Kazaa and I don't download on Dalnet.
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