Beta

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Gnome 2.0 Officially Available For Solaris

chrisd posted more than 11 years ago | from the gnome-without-hairy-toes dept.

GNOME 246

MoonRider writes "Today, Sun Microsystems announced the availability of the GNOME 2.0 Desktop for the Solaris Operating Environment.
You could already download beta versions of the Gnome 2.0 desktop but this is the "official" release that will replace CDE as the default desktop for the Solaris operating system. You can get it on the Sun website."

cancel ×

246 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

In Soviet Russia (-1, Offtopic)

RumpRoast (635348) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227260)

First posts you!

"Stealing Mushrooms" starring Frodo and Sam (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227458)

"Trespassing and stealing again, you little rascal! You'll pay for those mushrooms with your hide this time."

Frodo woke with a start. It took him a moment to remember where he was; in bed with Sam. In Rivendell. Funny that he should be dreaming about Farmer Maggot's mushrooms here. He lay for awhile listening to Sam's gentle snoring next to him. He wanted to go back to sleep himself, but he was wide awake now, restless. And for some reason, extremely tense. He tried to relax and let the night sounds of Rivendell quiet him: the soft wind in the branches of the trees, the chirping of insects, the ever present song of rushing water. Nope, not working.

"What's the matter with me?" he thought. He and Sam already had a nice round of love making that night. Yes, very nice. It was always 'nice.' Still there was this insistent nagging in his groin. He wasn't restless, he was frustrated. He was missing something.

He hated to think that. Making love with Sam truly was precious to him. He had wanted it for so long, and it had been such a blessing to finally get to a place where they could explore their love in a physical way. But still, Frodo couldn't help but think that something was missing. Sam was just so...gentle. It wasn't a bad thing, but he was just too careful, like he thought Frodo might break if his touch ever went beyond a light caress. But there was an ache in Frodo's skin that Sam just wasn't reaching.

And Frodo wasn't at all sure that he could ever ask Sam for what he really wanted.

He rolled over, putting his back to Sam, and letting his mind drift back to the dream that woke him. Rough hands seizing him by the arm, gruff voice threatening his tender skin. He began rocking back and forth slightly as the heat in the pit of his stomach crept steadily down his thighs. "Stop it, stop it, stop it," he chastised himself.

But it was no use. The dream had brought down the dam, and Frodo's mind and memory were flooded with images of every thrashing he had ever been subjected to as a child.

He had developed a taste for it at an early age, becoming a connoisseur of sorts. The mere sound of the whistle and snap of a switch, or the hardy crack of a strap cunningly handled was almost enough to send him over the edge. They were his first taste of the erotic, before he could fully understand the feelings of fire smoldering in his belly and groin.

He preferred switches to straps, birch being the switch of choice. Sure they stung more at first, but switch welts tended to heal faster than strap bruises. Farmer Maggot had used his belt - Frodo hadn't been able to sit for a week, even though Maggot had whipped him through his pants.

Frodo's reputation for being "one of the worst young rascals in Buckland" was in part due to his willingness to take the blame for things he didn't even do. It all depended on who was dealing out the punishment. Some of Brandy Hall's matrons did a fine job of it, but Frodo found that he much preferred the rough hands and sturdy arm of a seasoned Gaffer. If one of them was calling for a confession of wrongdoing, Frodo almost always gave himself up. His younger cousins and friends all thought him terribly brave and loyal. If they only knew.

Frodo had even made up a game to play with them, Stealing Mushrooms - a form of tag. Whoever was 'It' got to be Farmer Maggot. And whoever he caught got thrashed. Most of his playmates would only give out a few half-hearted thwaps. But Wilibald Brandybuck could really lay it on thick. Wili seemed to enjoy being 'It' and would set to his victims with hearty gusto. One time, he had cornered Frodo behind an old woodshed and actually made him take his pants down before he laid into him with a stick. Good old Wili. Of course, Frodo had pretended to be angry with him for it. It wouldn't do at all for anyone to suspect his secret passion. Besides that, he had needed a reason to beat a hasty retreat back home. Masterbation was increasingly becoming a necessity for him after a sound thrashing.

Bilbo had only beaten him once. Well, one could hardly even call it a 'beating.' Frodo had just entered his 'tweens' when he went to live with Bilbo and immediately began to carry on his reputation as a rascal. But none of his exploits had gotten him whipped, until the day he used the Widow Boffin's washing for target practice. Her clean white sheets blowing on the line in a light June breeze had simply begged to have dirt clods hurled at them. And Frodo was only too willing to oblige.

The Widow Boffin caught him and hauled him up the steps to Bag End by his ear. She hammered on the door. When Bilbo opened it, she shoved Frodo in and proceeded to give Bilbo an earful of strident advice on the proper raising of children.

"It's that Brandybuck influence on the boy, I'll warrant. Uncivilized. You'd better put an end to his hijinks once and for all. If I see him near my yard or my washing again, I'll have old Gamgee thrash him to within an inch of his life."

Poor Bilbo. He had been so flustered. "Now, now. That won't be necessary. Yes, I'll see to it. Yes, I'll take care of it. Of course. Of course. Good day to you, Widow."

Bilbo said nothing to him. Just walked past him into the study, and left him standing in the hall. Frodo wondered what Bilbo was going to do. He was such a mild mannered hobbit. No matter what Frodo did, he never raised his voice or even seemed cross with him. Frodo began to regret besmirching the Widow's laundry, if only for the very disappointed look it brought to dear Bilbo's face. He fidgeted and began to wonder if he shouldn't go find him and apologize. Or something.

Just then, Bilbo called to him. "Frodo my lad, come in here a moment, would you?"

Frodo's stomach knotted. This was decidedly not the fun sport it had been back in Brandy Hall. Slowly he shuffled into the study. Bilbo was seated in a chair facing the open window. The curtains shifted slightly in the breeze and the afternoon sun shone in brightly. It was altogether a cheerful room, and Frodo's favorite room in the hole. But now, it may as well have been a slot leading to a dragon's den for all the reluctance he felt in entering it. Slowly he sidled up to Bilbo, keeping his eyes firmly on the floor.

"See here, my lad." Bilbo began haltingly. "This sort of thing...well, it's just not proper. Behavior I mean. Not for Hobbiton folk. And...well..I suppose you ought to be punished." Bilbo paused a moment before he said, "Alright then...down with them."

"What?" Frodo's face was burning with embarrassment and shame.

"Your trousers. Come on, down with them."

Frodo gawked. Ugh, this was horrible. His hands shook as he unbuttoned his trousers and let them drop only just far enough to expose his backside, keeping a firm hold on the front of them so as not to expose anything else. He glanced uneasily at the open window, hoping with all his might there was nobody out in the garden who might look in.

"I'm going to be sick," he thought.

Bilbo grabbed and pulled him face down over his lap. Then the first crack of his hand came down on bare skin. Frodo's nausea was suddenly overcome by the desire to giggle. He was using his hand? Bilbo was punishing him with a spanking? What, did he think he was 6 years old? Ha!

Bilbo's hand came down on him a second time. This time, the giggles were gone. He bit his lip, hard, to suppress a groan. No, he could not be aroused by this. He tried not to squirm, that only made it worse.

The third smack came, and Frodo's mortification was complete as his penis started to get hard against Bilbo's leg. "Please oh please oh please let this be over quick," he thought.

Just then, Bilbo hauled him up. "Well...I guess that's it then." He jumped up from the chair, then busied himself flipping through papers, rearranging stacked books, avoiding Frodo's eye. "I suppose you've learned your lesson?"

"Yes, Bilbo," Frodo managed to say, quickly buttoning his trousers.

"And you'll behave yourself from now on?"

"Yes, Sir." Oh yes oh yes oh yes. Good as gold from now on.

"Good, good. Well then...just you run along to your room until I call you for supper." Bilbo coughed and fiddled with some more papers, still not looking at Frodo.

Frodo bolted from the study, thankful that Bilbo had relegated him to his room for at least the next hour, where he could relieve the guilty bulge in his pants in private.

And that really had been the last time he was punished for anything. He had never wanted to be in that position with Bilbo again, so he behaved himself admirably from then on. And besides that, even if Wili Brandybuck had been around Hobbiton to play with, he supposed he was getting a little old for games of tag. Or "Stealing Mushrooms."

Even remembering the shame and discomfort of the Bilbo incident was exciting Frodo now. He rolled over and began instinctively rubbing his erection against Sam's leg. Sam's snoring was interrupted. He turned to Frodo and nuzzled his ear.

"Sam?" Frodo whispered.

"Hmm?"

"Let's play a game."

In soviet russia... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227267)

gnome is you

Goodbye CDE (-1, Insightful)

PD (9577) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227270)

I ditched CDE a long time ago. Even twm was better. Using Gnome is a smart move on Sun's part.

2.0? Why, oh why? (3, Insightful)

Furry Ice (136126) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227272)

Gnome 1.4 is very nice. 2.0 still has a long way to go. I wish they wouldn't turn off so many Solaris users by giving them something half-baked. Then again, if they're willing to put up with CDE, they're probably willing to use _anything_.

Re:2.0? Why, oh why? (5, Informative)

Dingleberry (144200) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227289)

Sun has been working on Gnome 2.0 with the Gnome community. It's not exactly a stock Gnome 2.0 installation. You might want to check it out before giving it the thumbs down...

as a recent 2.0 convert, I beg to differ (2, Funny)

SHEENmaster (581283) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227643)

Many gtk2 features, particularly the file selection dialog box, are better.

A few of the configuration dialogs haven't been finished, but it is definitly worth the upgrade.

As for giving the something half baked (*cough*SCO UNIX*cough*), why not give them GDM and the choice of using CDE, KDE, GNOME, or TWM?

I apologize for calling SCO UNIX "half baked." This statement was in error, in fact SCO is such a load of useless non-functional crap that I don't consider it UNIX at all. Even OS X is more complete! (I also apologize for comparing OS X to SCO, winshit(my first choice), sucks nearly as much as SCO.)

Re:2.0? Why, oh why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227785)

holy shit, the trolls are out in full force today.

can someone with mod points objectively read the parent post? there's nothing of substance in it. basically an opinion that gnome 2.0 is somehow "half-baked" without any supporting statements.

kind of reminds me of the presidential debates...

CDE and SNL (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227274)

(CDE walking towards exit on plane, cue SNL bit from a few years ago ...)

buh-bye

I realize this isn't a support form, but - (1, Interesting)

vandel405 (609163) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227277)

Anyone know if there is any chacne of getting this setup on a sun ray with our having root privlidges? What about if there was a 100meg disk quota?

CDE on a class a acount sucks big time.

Thanks -

Re:I realize this isn't a support form, but - (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227308)

No.

UNIX, unlike Windows, doesn't let you install stuff to your home directory that easily. You need libraries, etc. With a 100 meg quota, it's impossible, and even so, it would still be difficult and things wouldn't work right. For everything to work, it has to be in /usr.

Re:I realize this isn't a support form, but - (2, Informative)

echo (735) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227395)

This is intirely incorrect... check out LD_LIBRARY_PATH sometime... you can have a ~/lib with all the libs you want to run things out of your user account... you can even override system libs with LD_PRELOAD.

Re:I realize this isn't a support form, but - (3, Informative)

steve.m (80410) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227519)

No, *YOU* are entirely incorrect - it ships in PKG format, so you'd have to be root to install it corectly. Even if you did extract all the files and copy them into ~/bin and ~/lib I think you'd probably run into some static dependency (it's built to install in /usr/gnome). He's using a SunRay, so the only other problem to work around is how to actually start it. Solaris is set to ignore .xinitrc by default (somewere down /usr/dt - i'm not at work right now). Why not just ask the sysadmin to install it. It's just another option on the login screen then.

Re:I realize this isn't a support form, but - (1)

Cyno (85911) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227596)

Some of us sysadmins get sick of that mentality. Personally I would say its not supported until it become part of the default install. You can always learn how to do it yourself.

But in the case of GNOME I might make an exception, since I hate CDE, possibly even more than you do.

Re:I realize this isn't a support form, but - (1)

nathanh (1214) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227582)

UNIX, unlike Windows, doesn't let you install stuff to your home directory that easily. You need libraries, etc. With a 100 meg quota, it's impossible, and even so, it would still be difficult and things wouldn't work right. For everything to work, it has to be in /usr.

Pure utter garbage.

Most Solaris packages are relocatable. You use the -R switch to pkgadd.

Most source packages built with autoconf will support --prefix for specifying a non-standard root directory.

You get around quota problems by installing stuff into /tmp. If your quotas are too small then that's hardly the fault of UNIX: it was a purposeful decision by the administrators!

Regarding libraries: the Solaris superuser can add runtime library paths with crle and individual users can add runtime library paths with LD_LIBRARY_PATH.

As a student I commonly installed packages to my home directory. On the student network I had installed LaTeX, LyX, VIM and half a dozen games under my home directory. This was a decade ago!

There's absolutely no truth in your bullshit claim that "UNIX ... doesn't let you install stuff to your home directory that easily". It's as easy as pie. It always has been.

Re:I realize this isn't a support form, but - (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227695)

hey, you don't have to log in anonymously to LIE you know? Lying is allowed on slashdot with logged in accounts.

Re:I realize this isn't a support form, but - (1)

stefanlasiewski (63134) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227460)

Gargnome [gnome.org] will install to your home directory just fine.

However, it needs more then 100megs. You might be able to squeeze out some unnecessary files, but Gnome without the addons isn't really Gnome.

Re:I realize this isn't a support form, but - (2, Funny)

zmooc (33175) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227709)

If there's enough space available in /tmp, just ln -s it to there and keep a backup.tgz in your homedir for when it gets deleted:)

Re:I realize this isn't a support form, but - (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227514)

It requires 600MB disk space, doubt you could squeeze it in under 100MB

Good to see (5, Insightful)

fault0 (514452) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227279)

That SUN is finally replacing the archaic CDE. However, there seems to be a pretty large gap in release time. GNOME 2.2 is almost out. Will it be "officially" released for Solaris onc GNOME 2.4 comes out? I don't think Sun is doing a service to Solaris users here by using such a old version. One could argue that they made sure that everything is stable, but the fact is that GNOME 2.2 itself has more bug fixes from GNOME 2.0.

Re:Good to see (2, Insightful)

LarryRiedel (141315) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227393)

I think because this was their first "official" release of any revision of GNOME, there was a lot more that went into it than what they will need to do for an update for the changes in 2.2.

Larry

Re:Good to see (4, Insightful)

stefanlasiewski (63134) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227485)

I know many Sun users who liked CDE because it was stable as a rock.

Gnome 2.2 is great, but it's not stable. I used Gnome1.2 and 1.4 (Vanilla and Ximian) on a Sun workstation for almost 2 years, and was really annoyed by stability and memory leakage.

Sun really shouldn't release Gnome2.2 until it's gone through a trial-testing period, and after several patches have been released.

Re:Good to see (1)

elmegil (12001) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227667)

Its worth noting that the Sun version of Gnome 2.0 is supposed to have a number of fixes that aren't in the "regular" release of Gnome 2.0, but are in Gnome 2.more. So it's perhaps not so out of date as 2.0 might indicate.

Uhh... (1)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227698)

Gnome 2.2 is great, but it's not stable.

Gnome 2.0 is very stable. Gnome 2.2 isn't (quite) out yet.

Re:Uhh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227711)

Gnome 2.0 is very stable.

If that's your idea of stable, why don't you just run Windows 95?

what took them so long (3, Insightful)

softwave (145750) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227284)

I really do wonder what took the people at Sun so long to realise they should replace CDE with something "fresher". Frankly I think CDE was getting a little bit outdated. Hopefully this'll put Solaris closer to the people ;)

Re:what took them so long (4, Funny)

ZoneGray (168419) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227764)

>> CDE was getting a little bit outdated

Geez, too bad there's no mod option for "understatement".

CDE is old and crusty. (1)

argonaut (37085) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227288)

I was getting really tired of having to use CDE on Solaris workstations. Gnome is a major improvement.

I wonder what sort of impact this will have on the usage and adoption of Solaris for workstation use?

CDE (-1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227293)

Now before any die-hards come bickering about how "CDE works for them" let me tell you how much it sucks. It sucks worse than Windows 2.0 did back in the 80. The interface is horrid. In fact, it sucks so bad, it just might put local prostitutes out of business. Thank you, I'll be here all week.

Re:CDE (1)

doublesix (590400) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227310)

Tell us how much it sucks, then. Examples?

Re:CDE (2, Interesting)

Pflipp (130638) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227782)

Well...

o There's so little of it
o And it still sucks
o There's a file manager that "deletes" to a trashcan
o Where's the darned trashcan?
o And why is my disk still full?
o There's just one icon on the screen.
o Actually, it's a menu. Sorta. But there's an icon within the menu.
o And it says "Terminal". Click on it. Welcome to your UNIX desktop!
o Buhh... close the menu :-)
o Oh wait, there's an other icon there.
o Netscape 4! Yay!
o And whaddaya know! A *graphical* man pages browser? Is it possible?
o Now them Desktop folks will finally know how to invoke strncpy()!
o Close both windows by double-clicking somewhere at the top left.
o That's all folks! Nothing more to see here. Go home.

Actually, there's one good thing about (the Sun version of) CDE, and that is the logout screen. It says "Please confirm your exit from the ..." instead of "Are you sure you want to ..."? Makes you feel less of a baby.

Re:CDE (1, Flamebait)

Alex (342) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227324)

I used CDE on Solaris because it is VERY VERY stable - sure gnome may be pretty - in fact it is my GUI of choice on Linux but on a stable OS I use a stable UI.

Alex

Re:CDE (1)

Breakfast Pants (323698) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227659)

perhaps you do not consider linux stable os precisely because you run gnome on it?

Nice New Face...Same Old Solaris (5, Interesting)

ausoleil (322752) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227302)

...not that Solaris is "bad"...

But who would have ever thought five years ago that the predominant commercial *NIX flavor would be adopting the GUI of it's open source competition?

Hopefully, little goodies like a Gnome Package Manager, an RPM like interface for package installation will be included or coming shortly.

Funny thing is that I am bringing a Solaris 8 box up to life as an AMPS (Apache MySQL PHP Solaris) box this week, so I guess this little gem will have to be part of the roll-out!

Re:Nice New Face...Same Old Solaris (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227358)

gnome isn't linux only. it depends on alot of GNU programs/libraries, but every unix should have them installed anyways. gnome runs on all the free *bsd's, linux, solaris, hpux, etc.

Re:Nice New Face...Same Old Solaris (1)

stefanlasiewski (63134) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227364)

Er... are you sure that you want to run X on a web server?

Re:Nice New Face...Same Old Solaris (1)

ausoleil (322752) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227391)

I may be putting it together, but it is going to be run in a department setting. Gnome means less me, I HOPE.

Re:Nice New Face...Same Old Solaris (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227436)

Have you ever actually _used_ a Sun machine?

The damned things have a hardware console that is implemented as a hardware IRQ (so that every time the machine spits output to the console, the rest of the machine actually stops and waits for it to finish).

Using X is really the only way to make a Sun machine usable at the local interface.

Now, granted, you shouldn't have to administer it locally much, but you shouldn't have to put up with the disgusting Sun console any time that you do.

Re:Nice New Face...Same Old Solaris (4, Insightful)

stefanlasiewski (63134) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227536)

Using X is really the only way to make a Sun machine usable at the local interface.

I can see your users cringing every time you bring up an xterm on the local machine.

If you're running Apache/MySQL/PHP, you shouldn't need to see the console very often. Connect remotely using SSH.

I'll say it again, X has no place on a production machine. It's acceptable, but form for a development machine.

For security and stability, you should run the minumum set of tools needed to run the system. X is many wonderful things, but it is not minimal.

Re:Nice New Face...Same Old Solaris (1)

ausoleil (322752) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227592)

You are probably right for a box that would live in the server room and run by "us".

This one will live in marketing and will be operated by Mac users. Now, I know that OS/X is Unix-like, but I know my phone will be ringing every time a graphic artist stands at a server console with only a shell to work within.

That said, and given that this is an intranet box, Gnome is entirely appropriate.

Re:Nice New Face...Same Old Solaris (1)

stefanlasiewski (63134) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227633)

I was mostly replying to the AC :)

You're right. Running Gnome on a intranet box is probably an acceptable tradeoff.

Re:Nice New Face...Same Old Solaris (1)

Schemer (717) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227786)

X does have a place on production boxes, in some scenarios. An example would be a web site which has graphics that are rendered on the fly on the server. Depending on what graphics library you are using, it may need a running X server to do it's rendering. In these cases, its also good to have a high end video card in the box, even though the machine will be running headless, hardware acelleration for the graphics is a big help.

Another Nice New Face...Same Old (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227388)

receiver

*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_
g_______________________________________________g_ _
o_/_____\_____________\____________/____\_______o_ _
a|_______|_____________\__________|______|______a_ _
t|_______`._____________|_________|_______:_____t_ _
s`________|_____________|________\|_______|_____s_ _
e_\_______|_/_______/__\\\___--___\\_______:____e_ _
x__\______\/____--~~__________~--__|_\_____|____x_ _
*___\______\_-~____________________~-_\____|____*_ _
g____\______\_________.--------.______\|___|____g_ _
o______\_____\______//_________(_(__>__\___|____o_ _
a_______\___.__C____)_________(_(____>__|__/____a_ _
t_______/\_|___C_____)/_KDE__\_(_____>__|_/_____t_ _
s______/_/\|___C_____)_Gnome_|__(___>___/__\____s_ _
e_____|___(____C_____)\Linux_/__//__/_/_____\___e_ _
x_____|____\__|_____\\_________//_(__/_______|__x_ _
*____|_\____\____)___`----___--'_____________|__*_ _
g____|__\______________\_______/____________/_|_g_ _
o___|______________/____|_____|__\____________|_o_ _
a___|_____________|____/_______\__\___________|_a_ _
t___|__________/_/____|_________|__\___________|t_ _
s___|_________/_/______\__/\___/____|__________|s_ _
e__|_________/_/________|____|_______|_________|e_ _
x__|__________|_________|____|_______|_________|x_ _
*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_e_x_*_


Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

Re:Nice New Face...Same Old Solaris (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227608)

"Open Source competition"? Very little Open Source software competes with Solaris. A lot of it runs on Solaris. A lot of it is included with Solaris. Linux and other OSS kernels may compete with Solaris on the low end, but certainly not in the high end enterprise market. And, lest we forget, Sun sells Linux now, too. Now that's remarkable!

Sun and GNOME (4, Interesting)

kruetz (642175) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227311)

Can anyone remind me why Sun chose GNOME over KDE or any other desktop environment? Was it because RedHat has adopted GNOME as their default desktop, or they liked the look of Ximian GNOME? Because I can't really believe that they chose GNOME purely on technical reasons.

Let me defend my last comment - I'm not a KDE or GNOME user, so I don't see one as being evil and the other as good or anything. But I do think that the duplication of effort is a sad waste of effort (I know why RMS started GNOME, and he kinda had a point, but still...)

Anyway, did Sun choose GNOME because it's more "enterprise-friendly" (ie, you can get support from Ximian)? I never heard much discussion on this point and I'm rather curious. (I'm also glad that they chose to adopt on of the main-stream Linux desktops.)

Re:Sun and GNOME (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227348)

Because Sun didn't want to pay royalties for proprietary non-open applications they developed against KDE, perhaps?

Re:Sun and GNOME (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227379)

-kde
+qt

Re:Sun and GNOME (2, Insightful)

bshuttleworth (178787) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227367)

Probably "Yes" to the fact that GNOME is more enterprise support, but "No" to Ximian-based support. I think a large part of the decision is based on the fact that GNOME and GTK are LGPL, and thus "friendlier" to ISV's who want to write proprietary apps using them.

And (IANAKDEU) but think GNOME's accessibility support _may_ have had something to do with it.

Re:Sun and GNOME (4, Informative)

JoeBuck (7947) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227371)

If Sun chose KDE, then they'd be in the position of either writing checks to TrollTech with every sale, or telling their customers that they can't develop proprietary apps without buying a separate license from TrollTech.

In practice, though, a number of software companies are already selling Qt-based apps on Solaris.

with every sale? (1)

7-Vodka (195504) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227735)

as far as i recall, you only have to pay trolltech once to be able to develop apps with QT.

Re:Sun and GNOME (2, Insightful)

Telastyn (206146) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227376)

Stupid question time: why can't you believe that they'd pick gnome for technical reasons. I've never heard or seen anything concrete one way or the other; I've found that they perform similarly, and gnome has a nicer look/feel/layout (imo).

Any link or direct explination (unbiased preferably) as to the pluses/minuses would be nice.

Re:Sun and GNOME (2, Interesting)

gilesjuk (604902) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227489)

Shame GNOME doesn't have a modern stable integrated filemanager IMHO. Nautilus is flakey, i've tried both Redhat and Debian distros and with both it falls over or refuses to start sometimes. With Debian I had Sawfish problems too, KDE just seems to work better for me.

At least with KDE you get Konqueror which is fast and stable.

Re:Sun and GNOME (2, Funny)

Telastyn (206146) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227541)

Ah, I've little use for a file manager; probably why I didn't notice. ty

Re:Sun and GNOME (1)

diamondc (241058) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227663)

Hmm.. I suggest you use Nautilus 2.x. Nautilus from GNOME 1.4 was real slow and flaky. Now, it's pretty fast.

Re:Sun and GNOME (5, Insightful)

tjwhaynes (114792) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227398)

Can anyone remind me why Sun chose GNOME over KDE or any other desktop environment? Was it because RedHat has adopted GNOME as their default desktop, or they liked the look of Ximian GNOME? Because I can't really believe that they chose GNOME purely on technical reasons.

There were probably a raft of reasons rather just one. GTK is written in C, so it's an easier task to tie GTK to anything already existing than QT would be. Sun needed to find an architecture with strong accessibility features and they may have felt that GNOME would be easier to get those accessibility features in ...

Probably the clincher though is the licensing of GTK. It's LGPL, rather than GPL. So Sun can take their proprietary stuff and dynamically link it to the GTK libraries and keep their proprietary stuff proprietary and closed. With QT, they would either have had to completely open their sources up under the GPL or they would have to have licensed the QT libraries from Trolltech. Like it or not, if you are developing proprietary Linux/Windows apps and you want a toolkit, GTK2 looks pretty good, doesn't force you to reveal your stuff and is a capable, accessible toolkit.

Cheers,
Toby Haynes

Re:Sun and GNOME (4, Informative)

DeadMoose (518744) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227401)

Well, first off there's the entry in their FAQ, titled "Why did Sun choose to support GNOME instead of KDE?" [sun.com] , but that's a bit light on details.

A couple years ago I went to a presentation from Sun about Gnome, and they went into more details, but my slides are at home. The couple that leap to mind though: there were the licensing questions with QT. There was also the fact that Gnome's C based rather than C++, and the large portion of Sun folk were much more comfortable working w/ C rather than C++.

When I get home, I'll dig up my slides, and if they add anything more to this discussion (since lots more people will probably respond by then, and I'm not sure how indepth they went into this particular topic), I'll append something more.

Re:Sun and GNOME (3, Funny)

the_real_tigga (568488) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227658)

Thanks for the link.

And if you read on, there are two nice other FAQ:

24.Q. How does GNOME compare to CDE?
A. CDE [...] provides a consistent graphical user interface for UNIX workstations.
GNOME leapfrogs CDE in [...] visual design.

25.Q. How does GNOME compare to Microsoft Windows?
A. GNOME is an open, free, and productive desktop environment that sparks innovation and excitement among users and developers worldwide.
Microsoft Windows is not.

Apples to oranges to the point.

Re:Sun and GNOME (5, Informative)

nslu (532403) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227402)

sun has predicted this kind of questions and answered in their FAQ

quoting from http://wwws.sun.com/software/star/gnome/faq/genera lfaq.html#4q0 [sun.com]

Q. Why did Sun choose to support GNOME instead of KDE?

A. GNOME and KDE are both powerful desktop environments. Sun has completed a comprehensive technical review of both environments and concluded that GNOME's architecture is a better match for Sun's software strategy, which promotes the creation and use of highly distributed, network-savvy software, as well as easy access to data wherever it might be located. One example is GNOME's innovative use of CORBA for network-aware interprocess communication between disparate systems. Others are the Bonobo component architecture, which enables easier creation of compound documents and system-wide scripting while promoting code reuse, and GConf, the network- and component-aware configuration management system.

Re:Sun and GNOME (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227435)

Can anyone remind me why Sun chose GNOME over KDE or any other desktop environment?

Because the libraries used by applications written for gnome (gtk and friends) are LGPL, while the library (QT) used by applications written for KDE is either GPL or available from Trolltech for $$$.

All developers for Sun would either have to make only GPL software (not likely) or purchase a third party library to write (GUI) apps for Solaris. It really isn't an option for Sun to make developers purchase a third-party library because a) the developers would not tolerate it and b) it gives Trolltech control over the Solaris platform. Imagine hat would happen if Trolltech refused to license QT for comercial use to some or all developers.

For Sun to have gone with KDE for the desktop, they would have had to purchase rights to license and distribute QT to developers under a comercial license. And they would still not have any control over the developement of QT.

Re:Sun and GNOME (2, Interesting)

Stephen VanDahm (88206) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227534)

This is the issue as I understand it -- someone will certainly come along and correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, as you may know, KDE uses a library called "Qt" to implement all of the GUI stuff that you see in KDE. Troll Tech, the company that makes Qt, has licensed it to UNIX users under the GPL. This is good for Free Software developers, but not so good for makers of proprietary software. As I understand it, in order to release a closed-source KDE app, a developer would need to buy a commercial license for the Qt libraries from Troll Tech.

GNOME uses GTK as its widget library. GTK is licensed under the LGPL, which allows a developer to write closed-source software without having to
pay licensing fees. I think that, by choosing GNOME over KDE, Sun ias trying to make it more attractive for developers to write software for their platform.

"But I do think that the duplication of effort is a sad waste of effort"

Yeah -- and I think the fact that we have two competing desktop standards has done a lot more damage to the free software community than people like to admit. Say that I want to write a GUI application for Linux. Do I make it GNOME app or a KDE app? If I write a GNOME app, I alienate all the KDE users out there. If I release a KDE app, I alienate the GNOME users. The solution seems to be to ignore both APIs, which is what Mozilla and OpenOffice have done. But that defeats the whole point of having a desktop environment. It's a big mess now, but both GNOME and KDE developers have invested too much into their work to expect either project to give way to the other.

Steve

Re:Sun and GNOME (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227566)

macs
sgis
windows
linux
bsd
atari
amiga

look at all this duplication of effort

what a waste of time.

everyone should just use windows.

and why do we have to have 20 plus types of marsupials? can't we just have one? sure seems like a lot of duplicated effort.

or could it be that the strongest will survive?

could it be that taking the entired Gnome team and locking them in a room with the KDE team, will result in development that is no faster?

9 women can't have a baby in 1 month.

so quit worrying your pretty little head about something.

and quit posting the obvious.

how many people do we need to duplicate the message about duplicating effort?

first CDE .. (-1, Troll)

minus_273 (174041) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227317)

the gnome. solaris seems to be bound to bad desktops. kde is far better and much more user friendly.

In Soviet Russia... (-1)

-1bynextweek (642604) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227326)

A gnome created Solaris!

It's true!

Top 5 reasons to use GNOME 2.0 (4, Funny)

Amsterdam Vallon (639622) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227330)

5 -- Footprint logos are way cooler than green dragons

4 -- Your KDE installation died

3 -- 2.0 is the same version number as your Linux kernel installation

2 -- If Stallman uses it, it's gotta be good

1 -- You'd rather embrace Evolution than Jesus

Don't forget to sign-up [starnix.org]

Re:Top 5 reasons to use GNOME 2.0 (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227385)

Stallman doesn't use it. He uses Emacs.

Re:Top 5 reasons to use GNOME 2.0 (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227424)

Stallman doesn't use it. He uses Emacs.

Yes. The complete desktop solution that existed even before X.

Re:Top 5 reasons to use GNOME 2.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227629)

EMacs excellent operating system, shame it hasnt got a decent text editor

Motif sucks ... this is about time (2, Insightful)

YetAnotherName (168064) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227374)

Motif/CDE's design philosophy could be boiled down to one phrase: "Make everything look 3D except the menubar!"

Remember when checkbuttons and radiobuttons could only be differentiated by innie/outtie appearance? (Now let's see ... if it's "in" it must be on, unless the light source is the lower right corner of the screen ... then ... ummm ... wait.)

I always thought XView was clever and a lot more user-friendly: you'd be paging through a huge document by clicking in the scrollbar. And when the thumb got too close, it'd warp the pointer for you so you didn't have to pay attention to the interface elements, just the content. Smart.

Oh well, at least GNOME's quite a bit prettier.

How good is it on solaris? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227378)

I'm using KDE on solaris at the moment...

Is GNOME2 any better?

Re:How good is it on solaris? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227396)

download it.. it's free, if you don't like it.. rm -rf /opt/gnome (or wherver Solaris installs it..)

Re:How good is it on solaris? (1)

acoopersmith (87160) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227430)

It installs in /usr/bin, so you probably don't want to rm -rf that. There is a remove-gnome script to pkgrm all the packages though.

Performance still needs work (5, Informative)

green pizza (159161) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227416)

I just got done trying out this release of GNOME on a SunBlade 150 (550 MHz UltraSPARC II, 512 MB RAM, PGX-64 graphics). It works and it's kinda snazzy, but it's mighty slow. I don't know if it's the fault of my low end hardware or maybe the software itself, but this beast really makes my machine chug.

While Motif has often been considered bloated in the past, CDE (which is Motif based) runs like a champ on this machine. The look and feel is pretty stark, but it does the job and is easy on my hardware.

Hopefully Sun will have GNOME zipping along by the time 2.1 ships. I would imagine there are still many tweaks that can be implemented.

Re:Performance still needs work (1)

restive (542491) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227609)

I agree about performance. I signed up for the beta of GNOME 2.0 with Sun (yeah, I got some free stuff for it!) and performance was always significantly slower than CDE. Maybe 5-10 times slower on average when just moving windows, opening new shells, etc.

It was usable, but going back to CDE brought me back to "no waits" for anything.
Oh, I was running on a Blade 1000, dual 750s, 5GB of RAM with virtually no load.

Re:Performance still needs work (1)

Darren.Moffat (24713) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227620)

Installing the medialib packages (not part of Solaris or the GNOME download) should improve peformance. You can download these from here [sun.com]

Re:Performance still needs work (1)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227754)

Can anybody explain why Gnome 2.x is reputed to be so slow on Sun boxen, while my (admittedly anecdotal, rather than formally benchmarked) experience with the product on x86 and related machines is that it's much faster than version 1.4?

Re:Performance still needs work (1)

damiam (409504) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227775)

Gnome2 for Linux on my old 500Mhz K6-2 is quite snappy. Since your box is considerably nicer than man, either the Solaris port really sucks, or you're doing something wrong.

Mirror for Gnome 2 Beta (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227417)

is here [shorl.com] . Posting AC so not to be a KW (karma whore :-)

Thanks! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227492)

Phew, now I don't have to put up with the clogged servers. Thanks, AC!!

hmmm (-1, Offtopic)

pummer (637413) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227446)

isn't a gnome about the same thing as a troll??

Re:hmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227720)

a gnome is more like a dwarf... or 'little person' as they prefer to be called.

Security Hole in Solaris GNOME 2.0 (4, Informative)

dananderson (1880) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227449)

Please read this message at http://wwws.sun.com/software/star/gnome/get/#downl oad [sun.com] :
a security vulnerability in the GNOME Print Manager could allow unauthorized reading of files. To resolve this issue, after installation of GNOME 2.0, execute the following command (as root user):
chmod u-s /usr/lib/gnome-print-manager-remote

Sun := Idiots. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227507)

Who the fuck in their right mind uses gnome for any serious work. When youve done playing with its windows 3.1 file dialog, its motif-like widgets, Its bloated filemanager nautilus, and the half baked text editor abi-crap that dosen't support tables, you KNOW why every distro except shit hat installs kde by defualt.

Besides, who wants the names of various monkey anatomy on their desktop.

I hope sun gets a clue and packages kde 3.1 up, since gnome is a total piece of shit, and I know what im talking about, since i have over a years experiance with both, and kde has been the defenitive choice ever since.

Waste your mod points biznitches, TINAT

Re:Sun := Idiots. (0)

licketyspit (455028) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227601)

I think even debian installs kde and gnome in the tasksel now. Oh well, I'll just have to skip the desktop install and apt-get install gnome by itself.

MONO? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227527)

Great! Now Sun can support that project named after the term for 'monkey' in Mexican - Mono. Then we can run .NET applications on Solaris!! Yipee!!

Conspiracy theory - Miguel is really a Microsoft robot put on the earth to get Sun to 'embrace' Gnome first, and then Mono, after which his kill switch will be activated and Microsoft will 'extend' .NET. bwahahahaaaaa

Release? Its BETA 3 (1)

dennisr (17484) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227540)

Looks like BETA 3 to me. Am I missing something?

Re:Release? Its BETA 3 (1)

stefanlasiewski (63134) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227552)

Perhaps there's a webproxy cache in between you and Sun?

The webpage changed sometime this morning.

Re:Release? Its BETA 3 (0, Offtopic)

dennisr (17484) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227564)

Wow am I an idiot:( I should have posted AC.

Obligatory Tolkien Geek comment (0, Offtopic)

JessLeah (625838) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227595)

Gnomes don't have hairy toes. Hobbits do. (re: "gnomes without hairy toes" in the Department string)

JRR Tolkien is rolling in his grave right now... no, wait... he's probably still making up more languages...

Thanks (1)

faceofsun (647635) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227650)

A huge thanks to Wipro and Ximian who really put huge amounts of work in to make the Sun release happen. Thanks guys.

binaries (0)

soorma_bhopali (643472) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227662)

are binaries for solaris 7.0 available?

As one who uses Openwin on Solaris... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227670)

I can safely say CDE Sux and GNOME Sux (I've used them both).
I'm still using Solaris 8 so I can still use Openwin.
Guess when I move to a newer version I'll have to figure
out how to install XFree or some other X.
Sorry, but some of us do like to have processor cycles
to do things other than run a crappy window manager.

To all the icewm folks: IceWM Rulz!
To all who are not icewm folks: IceWM Rulz! :)

Re:As one who uses Openwin on Solaris... (1)

acoopersmith (87160) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227718)

OpenWindows, CDE & GNOME all run on top of X, they do not replace it. You don't need to install XFree86 or any other Xserver to run a different window manager - just install the window manager of your choice and run it with Xsun.

Re:As one who uses Openwin on Solaris... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227724)

lol, loser

on a sunray config? no way! (4, Interesting)

hummer357 (545850) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227715)

as much as i applaud the possibility of using gnome2 on solaris (i've been using the beta3 for a long time, and i will upgrade my sunblade workstation to the gnome2 final release), it really wouldn't work well in all possible situations...

for example:
at work we have a very large number of sunray workstations, which use a chunky 6800 as server (the largest sunray install base in europe!). we use them primarily for managing our data network (as our country's larges telco & isp).

since gnome2 uses A LOT more ram and cpu cycles than good old cde, we won't be using it anytime soon. it kind of isn't justifiable to order a 15k to use a new gui.
and then some.
a lot of the applications we use are very usable in cde (eg: alcatel/newbridge's atm node management software), so using gnome would actually make the thing less user friendly!

h357

Check Me On This (Slightly Off-Topic) (3, Interesting)

ewhac (5844) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227716)

It's only just recently that I've tried to understand the vagaries of windowing systems and GUI kits under X. (My previous attempt was by reading the Xlib reference manual. Ugh.) There appears to be a mostly-unstated assumption on which bits of your windowed app are handled by what.

What I've learned so far is that the functional separation seems to based on the "conceptual boundaries" established by the window(s). This appears to have led to the establishment of three major components on X desktops:

  • Inside The Window: The Widget Toolkit
    This is the piece that's responsible for rendering the various buttons, sliders, textboxes, labels, etc. Applications describe in abstract terms what widgets they want and how they want them laid out, and the toolkit is responsible for actually making it happen. An example of a widget toolkit is GTK.
  • Around The Window: The Window Manager
    The Window Manager is responsible for operations on the window proper, allowing the user to depth-arrange, drag, resize, minimize, etc. the windows appearing on the display. To facilitate this, the Window Manager (typically) decorates the borders of the window with control glyphs to accomplish these various tasks. Examples of window managers include WindowMaker and SawMill.
  • Outside The Windows: The Desktop Manager
    The space not occupied by visible windows is the Desktop. The Desktop Manager gives functionality to the regions of the screen not occupied by windows. This might include setting the background image, drawing shortcut icons, displaying pop-up menus to launch applications, etc.

Near as I can tell, each of these components exists (mostly) independently of each other -- you can have an app using the GTK toolkit running in the KDE Window Manager on an unmanaged desktop. As such, there appears to be a huge opportunity for similar or duplicate code to accomplish the smae thing.

Each component appears to be independently and variably "theme-able". For example, WindowMaker has relatively little theme flexibility, whereas SawMill apparently has tons. Each manager accomplishes theme-ability in its own way, further contributing to duplicated code.

Further confusing the issue is the use of a single term to refer to all of these components in aggregate. For example, "GNOME" typically refers collectively to the Widget Toolkit, the Window Manager, and the Desktop Manager. ...Except that GNOME actually seems to be mostly an API specification. It is possible for Window Managers to be GNOME-compliant without actually being part of GNOME. Nautilus, SawMill, and WindowMaker are all GNOME-compliant, but not all of them are officially part of GNOME.

So. Does that sound right, or am I completely off-base?

Schwab

Re:Check Me On This (Slightly Off-Topic) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227771)

>>So. Does that sound right, or am I completely off-base?

Sounds right. But what was that middle part again? I'm not sure I got it ...

And if you liked the look of CDE (2, Funny)

Chemicalscum (525689) | more than 11 years ago | (#5227739)

And remeber if you liked the look of CDE - then with Gnome you can install XFce and configure to look just like CDE running under Solaris.

Gnome 2.2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227762)

As of today, I am running GNOME 2.2 on XFree86 4.3. Why in the hell would ANYONE use GNOME 2.0, when GNOME 2.2 is, basically, a version of GNOME 2.0 with lots of bug fixes?

Did you know this... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5227778)

Which is the only country in the world to have ever used nuclear weaopns in a war ?
I bet you know that one :-) We did that and it was very effective.

But...

Do you know which country will use nuclear weapons in the war very soon in the near future ?
Answer: We will do that again pretty soon !!

Read on:

The Bush administration is actively researching the implications of a nuclear attack on deep underground bunkers using computers to test the 'kill and spill' levels of bunker-busting 'small' nuclear weapons.

The program details of which were reported in the Los Angeles Times on Monday provides further evidence that the US is seriously contemplating the use of nuclear weapons against Iraq, and possibly other potential adversaries such as North Korea.

According to the LAT, the Pentagon "has launched a fast-track program to develop computers that would help decide when nuclear weapons might be used to destroy underground bunkers harbouring weapons of mass destruction".

Apart from determining the amount of force needed, the system "would asses the potential for killing nearby civilians and inflicting other collateral damage, including the spread of radioactive dust thrown into the air by the nuclear device and the dispersal of toxic chemicals from weapons in the bunker".

If the computer tests suggest an "acceptable" civilian casualty rate, Washington would presumably not be squeamish about using bunker-busting nukes.

Whatever the military necessity for such weapons, say critics, the Bush administration's political motivation is to produce nuclear weapons that are 'small' enough to use or 'credibly' threaten an adversary. Pentagon planners feel the destructive potential of regular nuclear weapons is so enormous as to render them politically unusable, especially against a non-nuclear adversary like Iraq.

Though the US has been working for some time to develop a nuclear weapon capability designed to defeat 'Hardened and Deeply Buried Targets' (HBDTs), the programme has received a considerable boost since the election of George W Bush as president.

"This so-called Robust Nuclear Earth penetrator (RNEP) program is part of an overall effort ... called the 'Advanced Concepts Initiative' to look at a variety of new or modified nuclear weapons capabilities", Kathryn Crandall, a researcher with the British American Security Information Council (BASIC), told The Times of India.

She said the initiative is "certainly very troubling... because it pushes new nuclear designs or modifications that develop new capabilities."

Even though these designs may be validated without any resort to full-scale underground tests, Crandall said they "may still undermine the spirit of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT), the goal of which has been to curtail development of advanced, new nuclear weapons capabilities".

In a report to the US Congress in 2001, the Pentagon estimated that there are over 10,000 HBDTs worldwide. While very few are of strategic significance, the Pentagon believes the number will increase significantly in the next decade. The onset of lower yield nuclear weapons, says a BASIC report, is shifting the force structure of the US "towards giving nuclear weapons a more prominent role as usable weapons".

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?
or Connect with...

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>