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Slashback: Cooperation, Gravity, Petite

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the all-good-things dept.

Slashback 199

Slashback with more (below) on KDE/GNOME cooperation (hint -- they're not renaming it "GNOMKDE"); the desert parachute nuts, a tiny P4 machine, and another chance to Ask Kevin Mitnick, at least if you're near Pittsburgh. Enjoy!

This is only making my biggest case look even bigger. Andrew Pakula of StealthPC writes: "A little while ago you posted about our Pentium 3 little pc, the size of a CD-ROM. ... Many of emails people sent us however were for people looking for a Pentium 4 little pc but at the time we didn't have anything to offer them with that power.

Well now we do have a Pentium 4 version, slightly taller than the Pentium 3 version it is still very, very small. You can take a look a look at it here. There are several pictures of it there as well as on the images page."

Just don't tell him your full real name. If your question didn't rise to the top of the recent Kevin Mitnick interview, here's your chance: Arvonn Tully points to this site (an activities listing for Carnegie Mellon University) writes "If you look at the bottom of the page you will see that Kevin Mitnick will be coming to Carnegie Mellon and lecturing on March 18th."

Those two are really joined at the XML! JP Schnapper-Casteras of the Free Desktop Accessibility Working Group writes about the post last week titled "KDE And Gnome Cooperate On Interface Guidelines," to clarify the extent of that cooperation: "We're going to co-locate, NOT combine the documents. This means that means there will be separate guidelines for GNOME and KDE in different chapters / sections of the same document. The current overview implies that KDE and GNOME will become stylistically similar, which is not the case. We're simply creating one site and mailing list where HIGs for all desktops can reside."

Lucy in the sky with a junker that's just begging to be dropped. Last September, we mentioned the fellows who like to abuse technology by dropping unusual things (manned automobiles, for one) from the backs of cargo planes for skydiving thrills. If that interested you, you will enjoy (and boggle at) the group's DVD documentary/video montage Good Stuff. I watched it with jaw unhinged; if this doesn't make you want to skydive, nothing will.

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gravity r0xors (-1, Troll)

floamy (608691) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275433)

IM VERY SMART!!!!!! I TAKE TITLE FROM STORY AND PUT IT IN MY COMMENT FP! caps caps caps capscaps caps caps capscaps caps caps capscaps caps caps capscaps caps caps capscaps caps caps capscaps caps caps capscaps caps caps capscaps caps caps capscaps caps caps capscaps caps caps capscaps caps caps capscaps caps caps capscaps caps caps caps

first post... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275434)

...or are comments just not showing up again?

which post? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275435)

1st? 2nd? none of the above? i tried.

good stuff (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275436)

It's always good to read one of these slashbacks, let's me catch up on what I might have missed. ~jm

Not The First Post! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275437)

click [trollse.cx]

FTP (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275440)

FIRST POST FIRST POST

If they can drop automobiles? (5, Funny)

$$$$$exyGal (638164) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275463)

Why can't scientists drop bowling balls [slashdot.org] ?

--naked [slashdot.org]

Re:If they can drop automobiles? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275536)

Or Anvils *Loony Tunes Theme*

Re:If they can drop automobiles? (5, Interesting)

WatertonMan (550706) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275555)

Funny. A few friends of mine dropped some bowling balls off a rather tall building on campus when it was discovered that the doors to the roof were left unlocked. It bounced rather high several times. (They did have someone below checking to make sure no pedestrians were around).

An other friend bought some bowling balls at a thrift store back in High School. They rolled it down the street to hit a curb where it would fly high up in the air - much to their amusement. They did this about 6 times until it smashed through the curb, flew off into the air and went through someones roof. Fortunately no one was home. But it taught them why dropping things isn't always a good idea.

I've been hiking in the backcountry where some stupid mfer was rolling boulders down a mountain thinking no one was around. Unless you know exactly where you are dropping things and have scoped things out, dropping things from a plane isn't too smart. (IMO)

BTW - there was an old B-movie staring Charlie Sheen where they do a cool stunt. Someone is locked in the trunk of a car and dropped out of a cargo plane. The stunt man dives after it, gets the keys out of the ignition, slides to the back, unlocks the trunk, gets the person out, clips them into their chute and then they tangent open together. Horrible movie but very cool stunt. Too bad today it would be handled via CGI. It seems like real stunts are becoming a thing of the past.

Re:If they can drop automobiles? (4, Funny)

FFFish (7567) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275632)

I've been hiking in the backcountry where some stupid mfer was rolling boulders down a mountain thinking no one was around.

Oh, shit, I'm sorry, man. I've always worried about that. A little. After it's too late.

Re:If they can drop automobiles? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275644)

if you saw Sheen, then it was probably on a sound stage

Re:If they can drop automobiles? (3, Informative)

daveq (645397) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275664)

In case you care, the movie was Terminal Velocity.

Re:If they can drop automobiles? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275702)

A few friends of mine dropped some bowling balls off a rather tall building on campus when it was discovered that the doors to the roof were left unlocked.
How.. quaint. I always find it interesting to see what common rabble like yourself do for 'kicks'. Dropping bowling balls. How crude is that? The standard of living has escalated tremendously for working 'class' folk (how they could sully the true meaning of class with such an adjective I'm not sure), and you have been given the opportunity to enjoy the finer aspects of life, yet you still continue to take pride in your neanderthal exploits. Reading this 'forum' has obliterated any doubt from my mind that we, the last of the blue bloods, are actually superior to our less wealthy counterparts. The more things change, the more things stay the same. Enjoy your life of ignorance!

-- H.G. Pennypacker, wealthy american industrialist, of 'old money', and one of the last true aristocrats

Re:If they can drop automobiles? (1)

Wonko42 (29194) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275730)

Legend has it (i.e., I wasn't there, but this is what I've been told) that some friends of mine (who shall remain nameless, for obvious reasons) once took a bowling ball up to the top of a local residential road that travels down a long, steep hill for about a mile or two. At the very bottom, it intersects with a major four lane road.

The aforementioned friends aimed the ball very carefully right down the center line of the road, then gave it a gentle nudge down the hill, hopped in their car and sped off like maniacs. Since nobody stuck around to see what happened, and since there was nothing in the local news the next morning, we can't be certain, but if that ball stayed on course, it very well could have reached speeds in excess of 100 miles per hour by the time it reached the busy intersection at the bottom of the hill. If a car had been in the way, it would have been hit by the equivalent of a lightweight cannonball. But of course, since the news didn't mention anything, we have to assume nobody got hurt...

My friends aren't the smartest people.

Re:If they can drop automobiles? (1)

PD (9577) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275831)

About 10 years ago in Detroit some morons dropped a bowling ball off a highway overpass and it went through a windshield of a car and killed a woman who was a passenger. Now every bridge in Detroit has large fences to prevent anything from being dropped off the side.

Re:If they can drop automobiles? (3, Informative)

yellowstone (62484) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275833)

bowling ball up to the top of a local residential road that travels down a long, steep hill for about a mile or two
Assuming for the moment that one were to actually try this, the bowling ball would almost certainly find its way into one ditch or the other in fairly short order, because
  1. Roads are very uneven, and full of random crud which would tend to deflect the bowling ball from a straight course, and
  2. Roads are typically designed to be convex (high in the middle, low on the sides) so that rain drains off. Even if the ball wasn't deflected by debris, it would tend to roll to the side anyway.
Even if you don't have those problems to deal with, imagine how hard it would be to avoid rolling a gutter ball on a bowling alley 2 miles long.

The reason there was nothing in the paper is that the ball is in the ditch, probably a few hundred feet from where they started it.

roads have built in gutters (5, Informative)

AlaskanUnderachiever (561294) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275911)

Doesn't mention where they rolled it. But in Anchorage, Alaska at least the vast majority of our roads all have two nice "ruts" per lane that would be deep enough to guide a bowling ball nicely for a mile or two. I've personally seen them be up to 4" deep. And while it's nice that a road is "designed" to be convex, they rarely stay that way for long in any area with heavy traffic and poor quality asphalt.

Re:If they can drop automobiles? (2, Funny)

meringuoid (568297) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275750)

Unless you know exactly where you are dropping things and have scoped things out, dropping things from a plane isn't too smart.

United States Air Force, are you listening?

Re:If they can drop automobiles? (1)

hitzroth (60178) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275842)

Unless you know exactly where you are dropping things and have scoped things out, dropping things from a plane isn't too smart.

United States Air Force, are you listening?


I'm pretty sure that he was referring to people dropping things when they don't intend to kill people.

Besides, the USAF does a pretty good job of hitting appropriate targets accurately and precisely.

Re:If they can drop automobiles? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275924)


Besides, the USAF does a pretty good job of hitting appropriate targets accurately and precisely.

I suspect the post you reply to was referring to the recent incident where some USAF yahoos bombed their Canadian allies.

Act of God aka Bowling for Deities. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275813)

"An other friend bought some bowling balls at a thrift store back in High School. They rolled it down the street to hit a curb where it would fly high up in the air - much to their amusement. They did this about 6 times until it smashed through the curb, flew off into the air and went through someones roof. Fortunately no one was home. But it taught them why dropping things isn't always a good idea."

Uhhu...well SOMEONE owes me a new roof. The insurance company didn't buy my "Act of God" reason.

Re:If they can drop automobiles? (1)

lordsid (629982) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275877)

i think dropping an avil would make for nice pictures. maybe get a wiley coyote to jump with you...

Re:If they can drop automobiles? (2, Funny)

stefanlasiewski (63134) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275893)

They rolled it down the street to hit a curb where it would fly high up in the air - much to their amusement. They did this about 6 times until it smashed through the curb, flew off into the air and went through someones roof.

I've been hiking in the backcountry where some stupid mfer was rolling boulders down a mountain thinking no one was around.

No, I knew you were down there.

After all, I have been stalking you since you ... I mean, your "friend" smashed a bowling ball into my car!!!

I mean, who do you think you are? Bowling Girl???

Re:If they can drop automobiles? (1)

krogoth (134320) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275971)

BTW - there was an old B-movie staring Charlie Sheen where they do a cool stunt. Someone is locked in the trunk of a car and dropped out of a cargo plane. The stunt man dives after it, gets the keys out of the ignition, slides to the back, unlocks the trunk, gets the person out, clips them into their chute and then they tangent open together. Horrible movie but very cool stunt. Too bad today it would be handled via CGI. It seems like real stunts are becoming a thing of the past.

Cory Doctorow's book mentions an interesting idea - "We don't have to beat them, we just have to outlive them". I think CGI animators are outliving real stunt actors.

That's not funny (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275838)

THIS [boners.com] is funny.

Its good to see kooperation. (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275474)

As an end user, who uses kde, and gtk apps, compatibllity is key. The kde team should write a wrapper for gtk to use kde widgets for gtk apps, so they look and feel the same.

Geramik helps, but it would be kool to use the kde file dialog instead of the (yuck) gtk one.

Re:Its good to see kooperation. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275501)

...and kprinter while they're at it.

And someone in the KDE camp needs to give up the Konqueror ghost and help out those poor folks trying to port Mozilla to Qt.

If all of those things happen, the Linux desktop(s) will be a wonderful thing indeed.

Re:Its good to see kooperation. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275641)

Those people who work on Konq just got more users than Mozilla might ever get when Apple picked KHTML over Safari. Why in the hell would they "give up the ghost" and go work on a Mozilla? Right now Konq and KHTML have a lot brighter future than Mozilla does.

I personally use Mozilla or Phoenix on all my machines, but I'm also smart enough to realize the Mozilla project isn't doing to well these days. AOL laid off a bunch of staff last fall and 95% of users think Mozilla too slow and bloated(I stopped arguing with that fact). To make things worse, AOL has not pimped Netscape in the least. Netscape was always supposed to be the browser "for end users" and Mozilla was supposed to be "about technology". Well it sure as shit hasn't turned out that way.

Where are all the OEM contracts? Why is Netscape or even Mozilla(who has no PR/marketing department) not shipping with any PC's?

Mozilla isn't going anywhere. I still like and use it, but the fact remains AOL is a breath away from axing the project. Being that around 60% of the work on Mozilla is currently done by AOL employees this would be a big blow. Mozilla would still survive due to the fact its opensource, but the chance it ever(I'm not sure it even will) breaking into double digit market share will be gone.

Re:Its good to see kooperation. (1)

Trestop (571707) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275645)

Give up konqueror, after all the support they got from Apple ? They would be really dumb to do that.

Re:Its good to see kooperation. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275732)

I don't mean to dis the great work Apple did on improving KHTML, but they did take a project that was lagging behind Gecko and bring it leaps and bounds ahead, so that it was still lagging behind Gecko, but not by as much.

I'd love to show my gratitude to Apple, but I wish I could so it in another way than sticking with inferior software.

Yes, yes, choice is good. Difference is good. But putting the #2 Linux browser engine in the #1 Linux desktop just seems to be fighting against reality.

Re:Its good to see kooperation. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275690)

Why Ko KDE Kusers insist Kn using Khe letter K as Khe first Ketter of Kvery Word?

Re:Its good to see kooperation. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275711)

It's knot the KDE kusers. It's the KDE kdevelopers. And it kannoys kus just as much as it kannoys you. But the software is kreat, so we ksuffer with the kstupid names!

K is for Kompressor (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5276042)

  • B is for Briefcase, with money bring to me.
  • C is for Candlestick, I hit you in the knee
  • D is for Deutschland, und Deutschland victory
  • K is for Kompressor [kompressormusic.com] , Kompressor is for me!

Why Ko KDE Kusers insist Kn using Khe letter K as Khe first Ketter of Kvery Word?

Because Kompressor does not dance.

Re:Its good to see kooperation. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275792)

It would be even nicer to have gtk wrappers for qt, so I don't have to subject my eyes to those fugly, misplaced gradients and goofy lines. Maybe take some of the button bloat and random stupid options away too. I really can't understand why a kde-user would prefer qt to gtk. I know it's a matter of taste and all, but even with "good" themes I can't use kde because I find it even uglier than cde (widgets, icons, general layout). It hurts my eyes. kde does have many nice apps, but I always go back to using similar (even if slightly inferior in some cases, athough not many) gtk apps so that I don't drive myself insane.

Dedicated Servers (4, Interesting)

jpsowin (325530) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275480)

Those "little pc's" would be great for a bunch of dedicated servers in a compact space... I wonder if one could remove the CD drive and put a notebook HD in? That would be perfect...

Re:Dedicated Servers (1, Funny)

WIAKywbfatw (307557) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275514)

Those "little pc's" would be great for a bunch of dedicated servers in a compact space...

Hey, you don't mean a Beowulf cluster do you?

Nah, you can't mean that. Not on /....

Case modder's dream. (4, Funny)

dwdyer (5238) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275557)

Nah, get one of these little PCs, stick it in a tower case, then you've got the whole damned thing for cold cathode lights, improbable-looking water cooling systems, etc.

-W-

It's been done (5, Informative)

Wee (17189) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275634)

Those "little pc's" would be great for a bunch of dedicated servers in a compact space... I wonder if one could remove the CD drive and put a notebook HD in? That would be perfect

It's already been done [rlx.com] , and done better than a stack of these little CD-sized guys. The RLX deals are pretty damn amazing. I've had occasion to see two different models in the past two years, and have been impressed each time. My favorite has to the be Transmeta-based blades, just because the consume like 9 watts when sitting idle. They're cool enough that you'd have a hard time telling they were powered on.

What makes something like an RLX chassis better than stacking in "little PCs" is that RLX has some very nice mgmt software that comes with the whole unit. Basically, you dedicate one blade to do mgmt stuff, and the rest (whether you have one chassis or ten) can all be managed by it. You can have all the blades sitting there blank, and remotely (and programmatically) boot up and then re-image any number of them with Windows or Linux, in any configuration you've set up. (The OS images are actually just tarballs of previously-installed operating systems you've set up and saved. So you can dedicate one blade to OS imaging duty, put Red Hat in whater config you want on it, upgrade the kernel or whatever and then push that tarball out to a "test blade" if you want to see how your apps runs.)

You also get more hardware with something like an RLX. The newer ones have dual fibre channel NICs, dual Gig Ethernet NICS, and a dedicated backplane network for "out of band" management, and an optional layer 2 switch for that chassis. That all means that you can make a cluster out of them really easily. And it means that you can do away with their hard drives, boot off the net and use network disk everywhere while still keeping them as "individual" servers. One more bonus: you don't have a cabling nightmare, and don't really need KVM for every server. They are also designed with heat output in mind. You can literally fill a 42U rack full of them (which is a total of like 330-something P3s) and still power it up. They're hot-swappable, too.

I don't work for RLX, I've just seen them up close a couple times (we're demoing one unit now, and will get another soon). If you are thinking of making a cheap cluster, or just want a lot of PCs in a little space withut a management headache, you might do well to look into RLX.

-B

KDE and GNOME, combined documents?? (4, Insightful)

Cokelee (585232) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275482)

WTF, IMHO a common HIG would be great. Geez, talk about getting my hopes up.

Same document, different sections. Why the same document, compare and contrast???
What is wrong with a streamlined HIG- why is it seen as a bad thing to ANYBODY?
The approach doesn't have to be exactly the same, just the ideology behind the approach, that's what matters - SOME consistency.


Re:KDE and GNOME, combined documents?? (5, Funny)

bstadil (7110) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275562)

WTF, IMHO a common HIG would be great Fewer acronyms would be a good start.

Re:KDE and GNOME, combined documents?? (5, Interesting)

mmol_6453 (231450) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275638)

why is it seen as a bad thing to ANYBODY?

Grudges. KDE [kde.org] is based on Qt [trolltech.com] , which wasn't Software Libre when the first version of KDE was released. (Which is why GNOME was started [gnome.org] .)

Also, as an example, I came in on the scene only five years ago, after Trolltech [trolltech.com] made Qt GPL. Oddly enough, I'm still annoyed at theKompany [thekompany.com] , because I installed Kivio [thekompany.com] on my laptop so I could build circuit diagrams on my laptop. Come to find out, I have to buy the electronic schematics before I can use them in Kivio. Granted, they have the right to charge for extraneous material(which these extra stencils are), but I find, as a (P)oor (C)ollege (S)tudent, that free as in Beer is really, really advantageous. So I'm annoyed. I was really looking forward to built-in Python scripting, and, IMO, Dia [gnome.org] needs work before I can use it with much comfort.

For the complete set of electronics symbols, at an average of $6 per stencil set [thekompany.com] , I'd probably be paying out $60 this week. And if I wanted any other users on my laptop to be able to use those stencils, it's another $60 per person.

And, as a final answer to your question, I gaurantee you I'll get at least one down-mod for badmouthing either GNOME [gnome.org] or KDE [koffice.org] office components. (Though I might not get modded at all as this is a rather old article now.)

Re:KDE and GNOME, combined documents?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275688)

A common HIG would be disastrous.

Let's say Gnome decides to go with KDE's left-to-right button order. Thousands of pissed Apple users, Gnome users grumbling about the dictatorship of inferior interfaces and forking the code, etc.

Let's say KDE decides to go with Gnome's right-to-left button order. Now we get a KDE code fork from people who can't adjust to bass-ackwards interface decisions.

Damn, well, I tried to seem neutral there for a while. Well the point is that choice is good and people should be free to fuck up their interfaces, and choice means people will be able to have a non-fucked-up interface if they want to.

Re:KDE and GNOME, combined documents?? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275733)

You're crazy!!

Let me tell you about our project. We strongly believe that Okay buttons should be blue, with 5 pixels of padding between them and the window border.

I understand there are some misguided people in this world who tolerate and even support white Okay buttons and.. it hurts to say it.. 3 pixels of padding.

Now, you know, and I know, these people are MORONS who deserve nothing less than FLAMING HOT DEATH, but still, they get together in their little "cliques" and plot new ways they can sneak their white 3-pixel agendas into the mainstream.

I want no part of it.

That's why it's best if we simply write our own documents, and not contaminate them with the festering ideas of these addle-brained mouth-breathers. If they are smart, they will simply drop their inferior competing project, which serves no purpose and crashes often, and join ours, with its blue 5-pixel perfection.

The choice is clear.

Who the fuck cares about Kevin Mitnick? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275506)

Mitnick: you're a goddamned criminal. Rot in hell.

Re:Who the fuck cares about Kevin Mitnick? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275598)

"Mitnick: you're a goddamned criminal. Rot in hell."

Michael:

Please stop posting all this negative shit anonymously. If you've got a problem then let's meet and talk. Perhaps at 9:00 tonight at Vino's? You've got plenty of gas in your tank, and your Outlook says your free so I'll pencil you in. Please wear something else 'though, that red sweater you've got on makes you look like a tomato.

-me

How to solve America's problems in the middle east (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275508)

It's rather simple. Nuke Israel!

Why KDE or GNOME anyway? (-1, Troll)

Khalidz0r (607171) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275512)

Well, the power of linux is in its command line, I believe there should all the work go. I feel linux is going in a totally wrong direction.

Re:Why KDE or GNOME anyway? (0, Redundant)

ddimas (629883) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275544)

Well, the power of linux is in its command line, I believe there should all the work go. I feel linux is going in a totally wrong direction.

Re:Why KDE or GNOME anyway? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275579)

I agree. Both totally suck. I'm an admitted Windows weenie and decided to take another plunge into Linux recently (Gentoo distro). I've installed Slackware way back in the day growing up when I actually had time to mess around. I've also installed it on a wearable computer I built so I'm not a total Windows moron. Anyway, the first few days I was in awe at the beauty of KDE 3.1. It sure freaking looked good. Within a couple of days I immediately ran into issues with KDEs browser. Boy what a piece of crap. It is a memory hog like you wouldn't imagine although I have to admit it rendered pages rather fast and the fonts in KDE look amazing. I unchecked the "cache" option and since then was never able to run Konqueror again. Oh well, I ended up installing Netscape but it constantly crashed when I went tried to go to www.line6.com. I was about to install yet another freaking browser but fell back to Lynx. Yum, this was really fun. The quality of the stuff out there is weak. The only two graphically based open-source packages that impress me are Eclipse and OpenOffice, both of which orginally came from the corporate world. So, anyway, to make a long story short, I agree with the poster saying that Linux should stick with its super powerful command line interface. It is unquestionably amazing. Welcome to the 80s.

Re:Why KDE or GNOME anyway? (5, Insightful)

WIAKywbfatw (307557) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275584)

If you think that Linux doesn't need a stable WIMP interface and desktop environment and that a CLI will suffice for all Linux users then you are sadly mistaken.

A CLI and a CLI alone might be fine for you but it won't work for 99 percent of Linux users. How do you expect to browse the web in Mozilla, edit a picture in Gimp, type and format a letter in OpenOffice or play a game with a CLI alone?

At a time when the Linux community is pushing open source software as a viable alternative to Microsoft-dominated solutions how will forcing every new adopter to learn a non-intuitive set of commands help promote Linux as the way forward?

I'm sorry if you see both GNOME and KDE as a waste of time. Please accept the fact that the overwhelming majority don't and that the future growth of the Linux community is dependent on an easy-to-use desktop that delivers as much as (if not more than) Windows does.

Re:Why KDE or GNOME anyway? (1)

On Lawn (1073) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275806)


I don't know about the others, but as far as browsing, Links2 does an awfully good job.

---------------------
: It gets you there and back again. [onlawn.net]

Re:Why KDE or GNOME anyway? (2, Insightful)

ddimas (629883) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275591)

Actually the command line and the GUI both have their uses. After all, you don't use a hammer to drive a screw do you?

Well, the power of linux is in its command line, I believe there should all the work go. I feel linux is going in a totally wrong direction.

Re:Why KDE or GNOME anyway? (1)

sxltrex (198448) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275602)

Don't feed the trolls.

Re:Why KDE or GNOME anyway? (1)

Khalidz0r (607171) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275696)

I don't modify my hammer to work as a screw though (and lose both functionas at the end), do I?

Solid State (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275533)

The product page for the LittlePC says that the hard disks are solid state. Does anyone in-the-know know how much capacity will be on the card?
The website doesn't say.

- Trollificus, who can only post twice per 24 hours.

MOD PARENT DOWN! PARENT IS A LAMEASS TROLL! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275550)

Graphical search engine... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275540)


Graphical search engine - http://www.kartoo.com [kartoo.com]

Search the word "slashdot" on this search engine. you will be amazed!!

Re:Graphical search engine... (0, Offtopic)

macdo10 (638771) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275803)

Weird ! I suppose that at some point a connection must have been made between Scientology and /. ... Having searched /. tho, I can only find 14 references to scientology, of which the most recent is dated sept. 14th, 2002. So there. Could this be the beginning of a bid to take over the world ? Random link : http://www.xenu.com Cheers, Macdo

So Typically American when...... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275541)



You can't even get out of your couches [skydive.tv] to go skydiving!!, just don't drop the remote !

good stuff (3, Informative)

SubtleNuance (184325) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275551)

I dont normally give free adverts (or any for that matter), but Ive used Stealth's pointing devices/keyboards in an iron foundry (read as; incredibly harsh environment) -- they are they only thing to stand up to the abuse. Good quality stuff.

I 'll bet these little PCs are built equally well.

Skydiving (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275560)

Tandem skydiving was fun but there's too many accidents for me to jump all the time.

Fatalities:
http://www.skyxtreme.com/safety.html [skyxtreme.com]

Re:Skydiving (5, Informative)

Shishak (12540) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275677)

I don't have a 100% accurate statistic handy but about 95% of all skydiving fatalities are pilot related. People downsizing their canopies too quickly (smaller = faster = more fun). Hook turning that new uber canopy into the ground at 70 MPH.

The fact is, Skydiving equipment is very safe. When used properly, kept well maintained it will rarely fail. If it does you always have your reserve. It is the skydiver that screws up and dies. Complacency = death in this sport.

My first reserve ride was on a borrowed rig and it was all my fault. I deployed too quickly on a hop-n-pop and had my main wrap around my legs. Let me tell you, going to reserve at terminal hurts like a mother, but I'm alive :)

Take your life into your own hands, SKYDIVE!

Size Counts (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275583)

Pentium 3 little pc, the size of a CD-ROM.

I had to read this three times before I figured out it was a CD-ROM drive, not a CD-ROM disc. Then I remembered a computer the size of a half height 5.25 inch drive.

WooHoo I'm going to jump with those crazy bastards (0, Offtopic)

Shishak (12540) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275586)

next week :) Yep!, going to Eloy, AZ [skydiveaz.com] for 6 days of non stop jumping! Gonna do a little head down, some freaky flying. Hopefully the bar under the skyvan won't be broken this time. It is fun hanging from the bottom of a plane at 13,500 feet.

WOOHOO!

everyone should skydive!

IN CASE IT GETS SLASHDOTTED (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275592)

Slashback: Cooperation, Gravity, Petite

Posted by timothy on Monday February 10, @06:59PM
from the all-good-things dept.

Slashback with more (below) on KDE/GNOME cooperation (hint -- they're not renaming it "GNOMKDE"); the desert parachute nuts, a tiny P4 machine, and another chance to Ask Kevin Mitnick, at least if you're near Pittsburgh. Enjoy!

This is only making my biggest case look even bigger. Andrew Pakula of StealthPC writes: "A little while ago you posted about our Pentium 3 little pc, the size of a CD-ROM. ... Many of emails people sent us however were for people looking for a Pentium 4 little pc but at the time we didn't have anything to offer them with that power.

Well now we do have a Pentium 4 version, slightly taller than the Pentium 3 version it is still very, very small. You can take a look a look at it here. There are several pictures of it there as well as on the images page."

Just don't tell him your full real name. If your question didn't rise to the top of the recent Kevin Mitnick interview, here's your chance: Arvonn Tully points to this site (an activities listing for Carnegie Mellon University) writes "If you look at the bottom of the page you will see that Kevin Mitnick will be coming to Carnegie Mellon and lecturing on March 18th."

Those two are really joined at the XML! JP Schnapper-Casteras of the Free Desktop Accessibility Working Group writes about the post last week titled "KDE And Gnome Cooperate On Interface Guidelines," to clarify the extent of that cooperation: "We're going to co-locate, NOT combine the documents. This means that means there will be separate guidelines for GNOME and KDE in different chapters / sections of the same document. The current overview implies that KDE and GNOME will become stylistically similar, which is not the case. We're simply creating one site and mailing list where HIGs for all desktops can reside."

Lucy in the sky with a junker that's just begging to be dropped. Last September, we mentioned the fellows who like to abuse technology by dropping unusual things (manned automobiles, for one) from the backs of cargo planes for skydiving thrills. If that interested you, you will enjoy (and boggle at) the group's DVD documentary/video montage Good Stuff. I watched it with jaw unhinged; if this doesn't make you want to skydive, nothing will.

how about this little mini-itx sized p4 mobo? (5, Informative)

ovidus naso (20325) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275603)

As spotted on linitx.org: 7in x 7in P4 mobo [commell.com.tw]
Should be much CHEAPER to build a system than the one refered in this article...

Re:how about this little mini-itx sized p4 mobo? (2, Interesting)

-tji (139690) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275906)

This looks like a great board.. Integrated USB 2.0 and Firewire are great, especially with only one PCI slot to work with. But, how about a case to put it in?

There are several good options for Mini-ITX motherboards.. If you don't need a lot of CPU power, the VIA EPIA motherboards - with the C3 processor - are a good option. They are low heat, which will help if you can find a small case.

But, this P4 system could be quite challenging, given it's high power and heat dissipation requirements. Anyone have some good suggestions for a case for this thing?

Re:how about this little mini-itx sized p4 mobo? (2, Insightful)

EverDense (575518) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275937)

That looks good, thank you very much. If only they'd ditch the printer port, it is
getting pretty hard to buy a printer these days that isn't USB. Might save a little
space on the M/B into the bargain.

One gratuitous incompatibility in GNOME 2.x (4, Insightful)

rsidd (6328) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275614)

is the rearrangement of the "OK" and "Cancel" buttons, so that "Cancel" is now on the left and "OK" is on the right, in contrast to GNOME 1.x, KDE (all versions) and Windows. Whose bright idea was this? Perhaps someone who's used to answering questions like "Do you want to do this, no or yes"?

This is my single biggest peeve with GNOME 2.x, which is otherwise looking very nice. Well, if they're cohosting their Human Interface Guide with the KDE folks, hopefully someone will get a clue (the clue being: stay compatible with the rest of the world).

If the GNOME folks ever built a car, very likely they'd put the brake to the right of the accelerator, because that's the way it "should be" for some theoretical reason of their own.

Re:One gratuitous incompatibility in GNOME 2.x (3, Informative)

mabster (470642) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275648)

I think it was Apple who decided that OK should be on the right. The idea is that the buttons should work like the 'Next' and 'Back' buttons do in wizards - take you to the next logical step, or go back to the previous one.
When you think of them in that context, OK and Cancel really should be ordered the other way around.
Of course, it's still hard to get used to for your average Windows user (like me).

Re:One gratuitous incompatibility in GNOME 2.x (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275697)

UI interface approach, right hand side is prefered by right handed people, so the OK button should be on the right hand side (as should menu bars on web sites -- popularized incorrently by cnet and copied by /. it's history).

Re:One gratuitous incompatibility in GNOME 2.x (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275923)

but people read from left to right.(ok western people) things to do first should be on the left and things to do last on the right. umm... like /.

Now if they swapped submit and preview around I may preview more often,

Re:One gratuitous incompatibility in GNOME 2.x (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275773)

Apple came up with this. Gnome ran with it. It's based on the idea that the rightmost button is "move ahead" and the leftmost is "move back" Makes sense for Back/Next buttons, but it's more-or-less a complete pain in the ass for any other sort of dialog.

It's a bad idea. Not every dialog is a *&#$# wizard! If it was, I would go back to the command line!

Re:One gratuitous incompatibility in GNOME 2.x (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5276007)

Yes but CANCEL and OK are analogous to BACK AND NEXT.

Re:One gratuitous incompatibility in GNOME 2.x (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275788)

Hmmm, so thats why the gnome menu is on the top, yet each app has its own menu. Gnome, its a mac os clone that tries to look like windows,

I like my k on the bottom right, with the window controls on the left, its only natrual to me.

Re:One gratuitous incompatibility in GNOME 2.x (4, Insightful)

Fluffy the Cat (29157) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275808)

1) It standardises the position of "OK". There are significantly more boxes that only have a single "OK" gadget than there are only having a single "Cancel" gadget.

2) People tend to leave the mouse in the bottom corner of dialog boxes while they're reading them. Dialog boxes should ideally be designed that most of the time the user wishes to choose "OK". Having the "OK" button on the right reduces the time taken to respond to the dialog.

I find it significantly nicer with this arrangement. I'm unconvinced by the "Do it the same as the rest of the world" argument - doing it right is more important.

Re:One gratuitous incompatibility in GNOME 2.x (1)

hobbs (82453) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275894)

I'm unconvinced by the "Do it the same as the rest of the world" argument - doing it right is more important.
I'm unconvinced that the GNOME folks should go against the grain of companies that have spent millions on CHI studies. Perhaps that's why I prefer KDE ...

Re:One gratuitous incompatibility in GNOME 2.x (3, Insightful)

Spyky (58290) | more than 11 years ago | (#5276050)

The Apple Macintosh has prefered this configuration of Cancel and OK since it was first created in 1984. It is incorrect to say that GNOME is going against the grain of companies that have spent millions on HCI studies, because Apple is definitely one of those companies.

Aqua HIG [apple.com]

-Spyky

Re:One gratuitous incompatibility in GNOME 2.x (1)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275902)

People read left to right or right to left (depending on where you come from).

For left to righters.

the bottom right hand of a dialogue is the last bit you read (you expect things to finish there)

So, you read the message and look for the bottom right hand paragraph to see what to do, and are presented with an oddly arainged set of choices.
this is bad.

And for my second point, it is always better to cancel and retry than acidently do something. so by your argument cancel should be bottom right.

Re:One gratuitous incompatibility in GNOME 2.x (1)

wadetemp (217315) | more than 11 years ago | (#5276081)

1) It standardises the position of "OK". There are significantly more boxes that only have a single "OK" gadget than there are only having a single "Cancel" gadget.

Eh? I've heard this arguement both ways and, no offense, but I really hate with the "Cancel OK" order and see no merit to that arguement.

In a dialog with a single button and no closing confirmation the button serves neither an acceptance or a denial function... it means "get this dialog out of my way." All changes made on a single-button dialog are implicitly (or are they?) saved the minute you make them, and it doesn't matter what the button is called.

If you think about that for a little bit, you might wonder why there are ANY dialogs with only a single button. Doesn't that seem restrictive? If all dialogs had an acceptance and denial button then there'd not only be positional standardization but numerical and functional standardization. Note I'm not talking about popup-message type dialogs... they are often significantly different in shape and size to put them in another category altogether.

Assuming all larger dialogs have an acceptance and denial state I think natural reading order makes most sense for button order... right-to-left in my case, so "OK Cancel." (OK being first because it's often more reversable than redoing all your work.. your milage my vary there.)

Even if people do tend to leave the mouse in the bottom right corner they don't read in a mouse-dialog direction... and that offsets any advantage that an 80 pixel mouse distance delta might give you with "Cancel OK" (assuming most people want to hit OK rather than cancel for the reversability reason I mentioned.)

Not gratuitous (1)

Chuck Chunder (21021) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275904)

At least not in the
Not called for by the circumstances; without reason, cause, or proof; adopted or asserted without any good ground; as, a gratuitous assumption.
sense of the word as the decision on this matter was a reasoned one.

Sure, some decisions may cause a bit of short term pain for some long term gain but being able to make those decisions is part of what good leadership is about.

Re:One gratuitous incompatibility in GNOME 2.x (1)

pete_p (70057) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275984)

Cancel, OK is the standard on the Mac, where 'accept' action is normally on the right, and almost always the default. (If accepting is destructive, the accept button may not be the default, but it is usually still on the right.)

Direct link to Mitnick news (3, Informative)

generic-man (33649) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275617)

It's a pretty brief blurb, but AB's Slash-like site actually has comments on the article.

Direct link [activitiesboard.org]

not GNOMEKDE... KNOME! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275623)

not sorry.

Put a (2, Interesting)

gearheadsmp (569823) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275630)

LiveDVD in there (ala LiveCD) and you've got quite a big a workspace. Or better yet, ditch the optical drive, drop a bunch of ram in, and have the boot off net, downloading the entire OS into ram.

Little PCs -- Do you actually want to sell one? (5, Informative)

Cokelee (585232) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275646)

Wow, tiny computer. Nice. Look a [sonystyle.com] n [hp.com] o [hp.com] t [hp.com] h [winbook.com] e [ibm.com] r [toshiba.com] tiny computer.

Re:Little PCs -- Do you actually want to sell one? (1)

deniea (257313) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275873)

Hm.. No..

What is in your links are all notebooks, not 'desktops'. Quite different in my opinion

stealth pc (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275670)

Looks interesting.. a little overkill for me though. I'm looking for a small gateway PC, something with a hard drive, DVDROM, serial port for UPS montoring, and three Ethernet ports for firewall purposes (or two ethernet and one wireless). Flash hard drive isn't necessary, and neither is good sound and graphics. External power supply is good though.

It seems like most of these little PCs are geared toward folks who want to make DVD players or home entertainment systems .. not servers (for instance, I would like ECC RAM instead of surround sound and MPEG decoding). Anybody have any tips for a small server?

And about their web site .. hello, BLACK web site background combined with pictures of BLACK products on BLACK backgrounds equals USELESS PICTURES!!

Other Small PCs (4, Interesting)

OrangeHairMan (560161) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275701)

Most of these small PCs I've looked at have been >$300 (the one linked in the story doesn't list a price), and haven't been fast enough for my needs, so I looked and found a better solution: Mini-ITX.

These motherboards are only 100 dollars and a little more than 6 inches square. They have integrated video, 800MHz VIA C3 processors, ethernet, TV out, sound, and 2 IDE busses. And the fact that they use C3 processors, they only consume 10 watts, for the whole motherboard! You can get more info here:

http://mini-itx.com/ [mini-itx.com]
http://shop2.outpost.com/product/3349552 [outpost.com]
http://www.via.com.tw/en/VInternet/mini_itx.jsp [via.com.tw]

Orange

Performance in small PCs? (2, Interesting)

BitHive (578094) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275736)

To me, a small mainboard means bad performance (i.e. memory throughput etc). Is this the case? I would gladly sacrifice expandability (PCI slots) if I was sure that the components that count (HDD, CPU, RAM) were still performing optimally. . .

Re:Performance in small PCs? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275753)

Wouldn't that mean the opposite (i.e. a smaller mainboard would mean slightly less distance to travel between components)? I have a mini-itx PC and haven't noticed it being any slower than a normal PC.

Go Arvonn (0, Redundant)

Ponty (15710) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275746)

See subject. AB is cool.

Combined (5, Funny)

Shadow Wrought (586631) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275812)

So Kevin Mitnick loaded both Gnome and KDE onto a Stealth Pentium 4 Little PC only to drop it out of an airplane?

Cool;-)

Carmack follow-up (4, Informative)

Reality Master 101 (179095) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275844)

Following up on a recent story (Carmack Needs Rocket Fuel [slashdot.org] ), John an interesting post [space-frontier.org] to the CATS board, which I'll reproduce here to save Slashdotting:

Something a little weird happened on friday -- out of the blue, the local FAA guy that had been running us around about low altitude flight testing at my property outside Dallas, just called up and said that we can do flight tests to 3,500' if we call them on Wednesday, then again on Saturday before we fly. Someone must have prodded him.
A couple of the OSIDA folks visited with us on Saturday. I was complaining about our current peroxide supply problems with FMC, and they asked if it would be helpful to have a governor or senator call someone. Yes indeed, I think that would be helpful!
I'm not too worried about things getting worse on the clearance side. Especially in our case, where we really don't overfly anything -- we just go straght up, then straight down. We expect to come down pretty fast on the parachutes, so we shouldn't even drift very far.
John Carmack

So perhaps things are moving forward after all! All you "chem majors" can now stop e-mailing him. :)

Its Time Again (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5275857)

It's time once again to consider the candidates for the 2003 Stella Awards. The Stella's are named after 81-year-old Stella Liebeck who spilled coffee on herself and successfully sued McDonalds.

That case inspired the Stella Awards for the most uniquely successful lawsuits in the United States for last year. Actually, joint awards should be given to the plaintiff attorneys and the flaming idiots on the juries who awarded anything at all to these morons--who deserved NOTHING!!!!

The following are this year's candidates:

Kathleen Robertson of Austin, Texas, was awarded $780,000 by a jury of her peers after breaking her ankle tripping over a toddler who was running inside a furniture store. The owners of the store were understandably surprised at the verdict, considering the misbehaving little toddler was Ms. Robertson's son.


A 19-year-old Carl Truman of Los Angeles won $74,000 and medical expenses when his neighbor ran over his hand with a Honda Accord. Mr. Truman apparently didn't notice there was someone at the wheel of the car when he was trying to steal his neighbor's hubcaps.


Terrence Dickson of Bristol, Pennsylvania, was leaving a house he had just finished robbing by way of the garage. He was not able to get the garage door to go up since the automatic door opener was malfunctioning. He couldn't reenter the house because the door connecting the house and garage locked when he pulled it shut. The family was on vacation, and Mr. Dickson found himself locked in the garage for eight days. He subsisted on a case of Pepsi he found, and a large bag of dry dog food. He sued the homeowner's insurance claiming the situation caused him undue mental anguish. The jury agreed, to the tune of $500,000.


Jerry Williams of Little Rock, Arkansas, was awarded $14,500 and medical expenses after being bitten on the buttocks by his next door neighbor's beagle. The beagle was on a chain in its owner's fenced yard. The award was less than sought because the jury felt the dog might have been just a little provoked at the time by Mr. Williams who was shooting it repeatedly with a pellet gun.

A Philadelphia restaurant was ordered to pay Amber Carson of
Lancaster, Pennsylvania, $113,500 after she slipped on a soft drink and broke her coccyx! (tailbone). The beverage was on the floor because Ms. Carson had thrown it at her boyfriend 30 seconds earlier during an argument.


Kara Walton of Claymont, Delaware, successfully sued the owner of a night club in a neighboring city when she fell from the bathroom window to the floor and knocked out her two front teeth. This occurred while Ms. Walton was trying to sneak through the window in the ladies room to avoid paying the $3.50 cover charge. She was awarded $12,000 and dental expenses.


This year's favorite could easily be Mr. Merv Grazinski of
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Mr. Grazinski purchased a brand new 32-foot Winnebago motor home. On his first trip home, having driven onto the freeway, he set the cruise control at 70 mph and calmly left the drivers seat to go into the back and make himself a cup of coffee. Not surprisingly, the RV left the freeway, crashed and overturned. Mr. Grazinski sued Winnebago for not advising him in the owner's manual that he couldn't actually do this. The jury awarded him $1,750,000 plus a new motor home. The company actually changed their manuals on the basis of this suit, just in case there were any other complete morons buying their recreation vehicles!


Sorry for anyone who thinks this is spam, but I thought some of these were priceless and deserved a posting!

Of course they're not... (2, Funny)

Exiler (589908) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275875)

They're renaming it KGNOMKDE

A "Six Pack"... (1)

EverDense (575518) | more than 11 years ago | (#5275890)

Finally, what I've always wanted... A Six Pack [littlepc.com] that won't make me more attractive to women.

Noise ? Wireless ? (3, Insightful)

IanBevan (213109) | more than 11 years ago | (#5276001)

Does anybody know how noisy (or not) these little PCs are ?

It also seems to me that they would be a lot more useful to many folks if they had 802.11 wireless networking. Their two featured models (p3 and p4) don't have spare PCI slots, nor do they have a PCMCIA slot (as far as I can see anyway) although I guess you could add it using the usb port. Perhaps an IRDA port would be good also ?

Co-locate ?? (1)

IanBevan (213109) | more than 11 years ago | (#5276023)

We're going to co-locate...

So exactly what does this get me as a developer. No doubt I'm missing the point here, enlighten me somebody...
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