TurboTax DRM Writes to Your Boot Sector?! 749
ltwally writes "As reported on Slashdot (amongst other sites) recently, the latest version of TurboTax is laden with DRM software. Even worse, however, is that it apparently writes to your hard drive's boot-sector , as reported at Extreme Tech here. As I'm sure most Slashdotters already know, the boot-sector is often times used for silly things like boot-loaders and such. "
Well, if they're writing... (Score:5, Funny)
Corporate hax0rs? (Score:5, Insightful)
How can ANY of us expect the hax0rs to behave themselves when Pillars of the System are behaving just as badly or worse?
Heh, silly me. (Score:5, Insightful)
"Will not work on the Macintosh Platform using Windows emulation software."
I took it back and used TaxAct [taxact.com] instead. I nearly installed it on my fiancee's PC instead. Ick.
You have to be on some sort of crack to write to a person's boot sector. Period. That's just off limits.
Re:Heh, silly me. (Score:3, Funny)
I write to your fiancee's boot sector. Zing!
Re:Heh, silly me. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Heh, silly me. (Score:5, Insightful)
Macrovision (Score:5, Informative)
TurboTax also broke my DX8.1 install. Turns out, those fancy movies that come with it are Macrovision encoded. NT user? check your Services for a magical new service (I can't remember the name, I've long since ripped it a new one) which even if you disable it, running turbotax fires it right back up to automatic. Lord this gives me a new reason to get a full refund from them. How can one tell if their bootsector has some extra bits in it?
Intuit, never again for me either (Score:5, Insightful)
If you can't tell, I'm STILL pissed about it, and will probably continue to be pissed for the life of this machine (too complex to reinstall everything and too large for practical OS/app backups). Ya see, I used to reboot this machine only once or twice a month. Now it needs it every 3-4 days tops (and before every CD burn) due to resource leakage it did NOT have before.
That they've now pulled the oldfashioned trick of hiding shit in a reserved sector -- well, that doesn't surprise me, but it does give me yet another reason to rant against Intuit at every opportunity. So much for my many years of being a good customer, and recommending their software to all my clients. Never again.
I've had the fun of dealing with the residue of an old app that used the "fake a bad sector" trick as copy protection. It rendered the hard disk impossible to back up by normal means, and when the program hiccupped and died, it proved impossible to uninstall OR reinstall (bad sector trick on the floppy to tell it that it was still installed, so it refused to install. Well, maybe with a sector editor... but that strikes me as a trifle extreme for everyday use.)
The very pissed legit owner called the publisher, and found they'd gone tits-up and been sold to someone else, who would be happy to sell him an upgrade, but would NOT give him a new set of disks to replace those that were now screwed. Owner said fuck you very much and bought a competitor's product.
Here's a hint, Intuit: Copy protection of the "fuck with the user's hard disk" variety didn't work in the DOS era, and it won't work now -- it pisses off the very people you most want to make happy: repeat customers.
I loooove TaxAct (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Um... (Score:5, Informative)
~jeff
No thanks (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyone knows if TaxCut makers are known for some dishonest practices. They bought CompuServe and tried to push it to people who came to H&R block. Hmmm...
Re:Heh, silly me. (Score:3, Insightful)
It took me 45 whole minutes to complete and
check my taxes.
Last year(the first year I had to file) it took 1h 30m.
Being a college student roxxors.
Re:Heh, silly me. (Score:4, Interesting)
In my experience, as your tax situation gets more complex, TurboTax starts asking questions and prompting for information that you don't really know the correct answers to. (Perhaps they need figures from a particular statement or form you're not even aware you have, for example?)
On the other hand, I still think these packages are great for the average person. Quite a few friends of mine pay someone to do their taxes each year, and it's primarily out of irrational fear of taxes. Basically, they're afraid they'll make a mistake and it will cost them dearly later on. That, or they're convinced the
H & R Block guy" will really get them more money back than TurboTax or Tax Edge.
Since my own return is usually pretty straightforward, I always use tax software to file. It's cheaper than paying an accountant, and I'm pretty confident the computer will do the math correctly. Not to mention, I *know* how it ended up with the results it got. I feel a little more informed about the whole process if I can see my refund or amount owed changing as I enter my figures.
Re:Heh, silly me. (Score:3, Informative)
How Appropriate (Score:5, Funny)
Virii write to boot sector
DRM writes to boot sector
hmmmm...
Re:How Appropriate (Score:3, Insightful)
I would rather hope that Norton would spot something writing to my boot sector . . .
Re:How Appropriate (Score:5, Interesting)
Never disable your anti-virus software... (Score:5, Insightful)
This goes rigth up there with those trojans that cliam that it won't work "right" with firewalls/anti-virus/whatever active. If it does show up on your anti-virus scanner, take it back to the store and return it as being infected. Remember to note what anti-virus program you're running and version, in case they ask. And don't take "no" as in "no, there's no virus on it, disable your antivirus" or "no, must be your machine that's already infected" for an answer.
Kjella
And just as anything else that won't install. . . (Score:3, Insightful)
Preventing this sort of nonsense is what it's *intended* to prevent.
N'est pas?
KFG
Rebii? Apparatii? Cactii? Octopii? Walrii? (Score:5, Funny)
-B
Re:How Appropriate (Score:5, Funny)
SHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP!
Wow. I've been building that one up for a while now! Man you guys get into the dorkiest arguments here. No wonder the Valentine's advice didn't go over so well here, heh.
Seriously, put this argument to bed. It is not +1, Insightful. It is not +1, Interestinging. It is -1, Redundant. Viruses and Virii both are acceptable answers. Why? Not because anybody's declared it, but because we know what you're talking about. Those of us that had to take mandatory latin classes need a place to vent this stuff.
Re:How Appropriate (Score:5, Funny)
Anonvmous Coward writes:
Viruses and Virii both both are acceptable answers. Not because anybody's declared it, but because we know what you're talking about. Those of us that had to take mandatory latin classes need a place to vent this stuff.
thnx. dat's y i rite like dis. odder peeps complane, but i say dat u can reed it so dont wine. inglish magers complane to much.
Actually, I'll go with the anal twits here. Virus has no plural in latin, thus you go with the english plural rules which says add an -es. Its a quibble, but if you want to seem educated, then understand what you are talking about, and what terms you are using.
OTOH, it wouldn't suprise me if the 'virii' term passes into the dictionaries in a dozen or so years. Other false latin plurals, such as octopii, haven't, but virii seems to be in common usage, and dictionaries don't only strive to show correct usage and spelling, but they also incorporate new usages and spellings, however inaccurate, if the usage or spelling is accepted as being correct.
Turbotax naughtiness (Score:5, Interesting)
As has been pointed out. . . (Score:5, Informative)
The problem is that since the entire track is reserved for boot information, not just the sector holding your MBR, things like LILO and GRUB may be residing there as well.
Boot loaders are legitimate boot records. Software registration codes are not. They don't belong in the boot track, whether they write to the MBR or not.
KFG
Re:As has been pointed out. . . (Score:5, Interesting)
Do the virus scanners catch this? If so, can they restore an untouched copy of the boot track?
Re:As has been pointed out. . . (Score:5, Informative)
Sector editor. I prefer BreakPoint's Hex Workshop [bpsoft.com]. Be sure you know exactly wtf you're doing though, or you could be in for a mighty long evening.
By the same token, anyone with access to a sector editor can mimic TurboTax's copy protection and install it on pretty much any PC at will.
Re:As has been pointed out. . . (Score:4, Informative)
However, if you're using lilo, this will wipe it out, so you'll need to boot from floppy and run lilo as root again to re-create the MBR.
Re:As has been pointed out. . . (Score:5, Informative)
At best, you can wipe something that will be indecipherable to anybody but Intuit (and break the TurboTax installation in the process) -- at worst, you could inadvertently clean out your partition table. I'd recommend ignoring it, but if you don't mind flirting with disaster you might be able to use the same Norton tool they mentioned in the article.
that settles it (Score:5, Funny)
CDilla (Score:3, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:CDilla (Score:5, Informative)
I'm one of the legions of long-time TurboTax users who switched to TaxCut this year. Glad I did, TaxCut works just as well, costs half as much, and has no DRM or other installation games. As a bonus, it imports TurboTax data flawlessly.
We went through this before, in the early days of the PC (early 80's). Companies kept using more and more obnoxious forms of copy protection, making software more brittle, and more and more difficult to install and use. Finally enough consumers revolted and the software companies wised up. Looks like Intuit needs a history lesson.
Re:CDilla (Score:5, Interesting)
It's farking TAX software, it's not CAD, it's not 3D animation or video editing. It's for doing TAXES.
It's like installing a sophisticated electronic ignition interlock system in a Yugo or something. Why bother?
It's this sort of thing that permanently alienates me on a product. I will NEVER buy a product that uses low-level writes on my system for copy protection purposes, especially if they try and keep it secret.
N.
Re:CDilla (Score:5, Insightful)
I switched from TurboTax because of their lame DRM schemes. As long as you don't do this, I'll keep buying your software.
Here's hoping they listen.
TurboTax XP (Score:5, Funny)
only in danger if you dual-boot (Score:5, Interesting)
If, however, you use other boot-loaders or "alternative" OS's, you might be in for an unpleasant surprise as things suddenly stop booting. YIKES!.
Anyhoo.. just thought that I'd point out that any of you that just have to run TurboTax should be "safe" unless you run something non-M$.
Re:only in danger if you dual-boot (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't think I have to mention what overwriting those drivers means to the users data; plus, you aren't even likely to be able to restore those drivers.
Re:only in danger if you dual-boot (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:only in danger if you dual-boot (Score:3, Informative)
Huh? A sector on a disk does not contain other sectors. Therefore, there cannot be a sector 33 of the boot sector.
Perhaps you mean that that sector 33 in the boot-information track or cylinder is overwritten. That would seem to make more sense.
Ah, the power of friends (Score:3, Funny)
VMWare? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:VMWare? (Score:4, Informative)
If that's the case, this boot-sector thing might be a major part of the reason why.
~Philly
Re:VMWare? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:VMWare? (Score:3, Interesting)
Not to mention that VMWare disks are given drive ID strings like "VMWare Virtual Disk" (or something like that). A program could just look for that string in the drive ID.
That being said, from other posts it doesn't look like the DRM software checks.
Re:VMWare? (Score:5, Informative)
Yep, it works with VMware. That's how I installed it, after reading the earlier /. story. One thing, though, you need to turn off the "hardware acceleration" in the VM configuration while starting the program (after that, you can turn acceleration back on).
After reading the earlier stories about locking to a particular machine, and possibly installing spyware, I figured I'd either return the thing or install it under VMware. The geek in me won out, so I decided to see how it'd work under VMware. I'm sure glad I didn't install it on a PC directly.
-Steve
umm... (Score:4, Interesting)
Administrator (Score:5, Informative)
As I understand it, a program running as Administrator on NT can elevate its privileges to LocalSystem and do just about anything, such as write sectors to physical drives.
Re:Administrator (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Administrator (Score:5, Informative)
No, the HAL does not prevent direct writes to the disk. An administrator can open the raw disk device ("\\.\PhysicalDrive0" -- the NT equivalent of BSD's
I suspect the reason that a defragmenter would need special kernel support is that the file system driver keeps internal state data and would react, um, badly to the data on the disk changing out from under it. Think blue screen and possibly corrupt filesystem.
However, for areas that aren't directly touched by the FS driver, such as the MBR, unallocated partitions, or partitions for which there is no filesystem driver loaded, like UFS or ext2, this method of access works just fine. A while back I wrote a quick utility to let me tell the FreeBSD bootloader (which lives in the MBR) which partition I want it to default to loading on the next boot. Real handy for accessing dual-boot systems remotely.
Re:Does the HAL prohibit going around the FS? (Score:4, Informative)
Analog tax returns (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Analog tax returns (Score:5, Insightful)
Err, no thanks. It's worth $30 to me to save several hours of sifting through stacks of paper, re-checking my calculations and making sure I've copied the correct numbers from form A to form B.
Re:Analog tax returns (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Analog tax returns (Score:5, Funny)
I imagine you'll be doing your taxes by hand then. I suppose you beat your clothing against rocks in the river and hand knit your clothing using wool sheared from sheep you raise in your backyard.
-Kevin
Re:Analog tax returns (Score:5, Insightful)
Presumably the electronic forms and the "choices" they make have been analyzed by someone who really understands the tax code, but for all we know the coin tossed was a Rupee in India by someone who has never filled out American tax forms! No offense to Indian programmers, but I'm sure my guesses of Indian tax law would be just as bad.
I also kind of like the neo-luddite feel of mailing in my taxes on paper. It feels subversive for some odd reason.
Re:Analog tax returns (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't know about you, but it's TOO complicated (Score:3, Informative)
Anyhow, just doing minimum compliance with the law, no massively complicated deductions, you have to do things like calculate "minimum alternative taxes", and such... it's taken my wife since December, 2 hours or so each day, about 3 days a week... so I guess that would be 36 hours so far. She's still not done.
Yeah, she's doing it analog. I don't think turbo tax *would* help a whole lot, especially since a major part of her job is reading and rereading all the IRS documents to find out their new rules this year, and how she has to expense this, deduct that, cannot expense and *must* deduct t'other, *must* expense the third, or fill in a form explaining why she isn't expensing it, and so on and so forth.
I dunno. If you count the cost of her time as $20/hour, then without us owing anything, the cost of taxes would be $720 and counting.
Anyhow, lemme finish up with a link and a comment:
http://www.givemeliberty.org : absolutely right, legally correct based on written law, but it'd be incredibly stupid to join. Lots of our rules have nothing to do with law, if you get my drift. Better just to leave.
Linux interop? (Score:5, Insightful)
what does it do to wine?
Re:Linux interop? (Score:3, Informative)
Intuit's still a bunch of SOBs for doing such a dangerous thing, though.
Re:Linux interop? (Score:3, Funny)
No. (Score:4, Informative)
This is certainly a Bad Thing, but not nearly as bad as writing to the boot sector would be.
Well ok, it doesn't write to the boot sector, but (Score:5, Informative)
Nothing belongs in that *track* other than boot information. Period.
KFG
What we need is... (Score:3, Interesting)
The only thing is that someone would have to do it anonymously - or from outside the US to avoid violating the DMCA
(Actually, this sounds like a good ad for H&R Block...)
Just my 1040EZ's worth
RickTheWizKid
Nothing to be afraid of (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure its not really a good idea and if lots of companies do that, it would lead to conflicts. Especially since 33 is a nice number, being in the middle. But is it really something we should be "afraid of" ?
The article had its worries about Tax software forgetting its licence just before you are done and have to send them off to the gov't. But that isn't too new with computers. Murphy's Law would apply regardless of what kind of copy protection that software has.
3D Studio Max does a similar thing. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:3D Studio Max does a similar thing. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:3D Studio Max does a similar thing. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:3D Studio Max does a similar thing. (Score:5, Funny)
This is a wonderful way to do things . . . (Score:5, Funny)
Just file your taxes electronically for free (Score:5, Informative)
If you insist on using TurboTax, use their web-based vesion; it's alway current and no software gets installed on your PC.
Personally, even though I've been using TurboTax for over 10 years, I will be using a different tax preparerer this year. I find their association with this kind of DRM crap distastful.
UK online returns (Score:5, Interesting)
All in all, pretty painless as well as free...:)
How many other programs do this? (Score:5, Interesting)
But that's not all. Recently The Register ran a story [theregister.co.uk] which talked about how a stolen tablet PC had been traced over the net. The security software installed on this notebook (Computrace) supposedly "involves a tamper resistant agent that resides on the hard disk of PCs. Even formatting a drive will not erase this agent."
Now, I for one doubt those claims (Partition Magic would surely be able to zap the software, and the software wouldn't run if Linux was installed etc) but if it is true then who knows what else could be written to inaccessible (by the user at least) parts of the hard-disk?
It gets worse. The Computrace software creates a backdoor in your system which allows Computrace (and anyone else who figures out how to use it) to silently delete files from your drive). It also uses cloaking software which "is silent and invisible and will not be detected by looking at the disk directory or running a utility that examines RAM."
Claims are also made that it can worm its way through firewalls. Big claims indeed (perhaps too big without some clarification... the devil's in the details) but if this software is sold to the public by a private firm, what the heck could Government departments install on our computers to track what we do?
My Logitech mouse drivers installed spyware (Score:4, Informative)
This really blew my mind at the time. I can see someone who provides free software doing that using the excuse that they need to make money and pay the employees, etc. But spyware with a $49.99 USA mouse ! Jeez...............
I wonder... (Score:3, Funny)
The ultimate tax software! (Score:5, Funny)
Turbo-fuxxored (Score:3, Interesting)
So to use your software, I need to disable any virus scanners? That right there is a red flag if I ever saw one. Holy hell!
I'm all for , and understand, the need for them to try to protect themselves against piracy, but they are treading on dangerous ground with this.Someone read the EULA, does it cover them if your bootloader dies?
I filed a bug report :-) (Score:5, Insightful)
that said something like "TurboTax writes to boot sector"
In a past life, I managed a software product validation team. Nothing would have shipped past me with this in it. It's a bug. File a report. You do not need to be a registered user to file a bug report, it turns out.
Just filed mine... (Score:3, Insightful)
Even if you don't actually own TurboTax (I infact used it for the first time this year) I would file a bug report. We all know what the symptoms and causes are and they're valid no matter who reports them.
We must all make a stand to demonstrate consumers dislike and resist silly measures like this. Especially when these measures damage our computers!
I filed a "product suggestion" and got a reply (Score:3, Informative)
Not the boot sector! (Score:5, Interesting)
Track 0, sector 0 is the boot sector. The partition table is stored in this sector. The rest of track 0 (sectors 1 through 63) is not officially used, so some DRM systems like to stash data there.
What makes this annoying is when you try to install another DRM-enabled product that also wants to write in the same place; after you install the second program, the first one will accuse you of being a pirate, and it will refuse to run anymore. Since there is no standard for using this space, its easy for two DRM systems to conflict with each other.
If there were a standard for using that space, presumably the DRM authors wouldn't want to use it! After all, someone would write a utility that showed you what programs were using that space, and for what... and then it wouldn't be obscure, and so it wouldn't be "secure" anymore. Feh.
I won't ever buy programs that pull stunts like this.
steveha
This is *NOT* DRM (Score:5, Interesting)
DRM stands for "digital rights management." It refers to systems for encoding, managing, or enforcing rights and clearances for digital media. It's not a general-purpose synonym for any copy-protection or piracy-prevention system.
I've come to expect this kind of blatant misattribution from the mainstream media, but on Slashdot? I've come to expect four things from Slashdot over the years: misspellings, flame wars, trolls trolls trolls, and accuracy. If this kind of thing keeps up, I'm going to have to take #4 off my list.
Here's the response I received from them (Score:3, Informative)
I am sorry that it took us so long to respond to your e-mail. You expressed concern about how product activation will impede your ability to access your tax files in future years.
- If you reinstall TurboTax after October 15, 2003, you will not need to purchase a new product license. TurboTax 2002 products that currently require product activation will be activated free of charge, thus allowing anyone to install TurboTax on any computer without needing to purchase a product license. (Example: You activate TurboTax on your home computer and complete your taxes in March of 2003. The following December, you install TurboTax on a new computer. Because you installed TurboTax after October 15, you will not need to purchase a product license.)
- If you purchase a new computer or a new hard disk for your current computer, Intuit technical support agents can assist you in reinstalling and reactivating TurboTax at no additional cost.
- If you reformat your hard disk or replace your current operating system, in most cases reactivation will take place without you needing to contact Intuit.
- If you reinstall the same version of TurboTax on the same computer that it was previously activated on, you do not need to purchase a new product license.
- If you install TurboTax on another computer before October 16, 2003, you need to purchase a new product license only if you want to print from within TurboTax, electronically file, or save your tax return as a
.pdf file from that computer.
I hope this information answers your questions. If you would like to get more information about product activation, please see the Product Activation page at http://www.turbotaxsupport.com/default.asp?platfoYou are a valued customer and your opinion matters. If I can answer any additional concerns that you may have, please let me know.
Sincerely,
AnnabelG
Tax Development, TurboTax
ROI on an Accountant (Score:3, Insightful)
And if you have an S or a C corp for you consultants out there, you have NO EXCUSE. No amount of coffe-sippin-while-reading-tax-books will replace the mountain of cash a good accountant will save you! The $200 investment is CHEAP! Get a good accountant, and let him do all the hard work and educate you on deductions, etc.
Contact their PR dept. (Score:4, Informative)
"I'm a potential customer for TurboTax software. A recent discussion held at the Slashdot forum indicates that TurboTax is laden with DRM (Digital Rights Management) components, and even goes so far as to write to the boot sector of the hard drive. I wanted to know how InTuit responds to this. I can't support a company who would include such measures in their software. I understand the need to prevent piracy, but writing to the boot sector is something that only disk partitioning software and operating system installers should do. I'm eager to hear InTuits response on this matter, as it will be the deciding factor in whether I buy InTuit software.
Here are some links to the sites I am obtaining information from.
Original article claiming the action:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,39
Pursuant discussion on Slashdot:
http://slashdot.org/articles/03/02/16/
PS - I'm posting a copy of this to the Slashdot forum, and intend to forward the reply to Slashdot as well."
LEGALLY Circumventing (sortof) all this crap (Score:5, Interesting)
2.) It came with a Win98 license that I retained, but never used (it was a GNU/Linux box).
3.) Install legal copy of Win98
4.) Install copy of TurboTax
5.) Do taxes
6.) Pass laptop around to family and friends, who hook it up to their monitors and printers, but (as per the license) it is only installed on ONE machine. (The machine just happens to move around a lot...)
those guys! (Score:4, Interesting)
Joyce,
Thanks for the response -- let me tell you a little bit about my April 15,
2002:
The time - about 11:00 PM. I've completed my 1040 and related forms using
TurboTax on my main Windows 2000 computer (I have a home network, with
several computers connecting to the internet through a common router to a
cable modem). I go through the steps to file electronically, but
experience repeated failures, with a couple of different error
messages. I get on the live chat support and finally get through to an
attendant. I get some advice, then try again to no avail. Returning to
support I describe my setup a bit more. When the attendant learns that I
have a home network, he/she says that I'm more or less on my own. I try
making many different changes to the configuration of the Win2k computer,
including dialing up to the internet straight through a modem. No dice,
and no time to wait for another chat session with support.
The time is about 11:45 (and my blood pressure is rising
fast...). I uninstall TurboTax from the Win2k computer and install it on
my daughter's Win98 computer, transferring the
tax data file across the network. About 11:55, I try electronic filing
again, and it works! Without remembering or wishing to burden you with
the details, let me assure you that it appeared to be a Win2k related
problem, or at least a problem with the network set-up on the Win2k
machine. Blood pressure goes down, and I put the whole thing behind me.
Running that scenario again with product activation lands me in the
emergency room. I do appreciate the note, and I'm going to start my 2002
taxes soon. I'll revisit the product activation issue then.
Josh
On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, JoyceC Support - [snip] wrote:
> Dear Mr. Hamilton,
>
> Thank you for your E-mail to Intuit. My name is Joyce with Intuit's
> Executive Response Team. I would like to respond to your concerns about
> using our product. By working with our customers, it is our intent to
> establish clear, identifiable solutions to your questions and concerns.
> First and foremost, I am sorry for the delay in responding to your comments.
> Second, I gather you are giving up on TurboTax because of concerns with the
> product activation this year.
>
> Let me share some facts about our product activation:
>
> * TurboTax 2002 includes a product activation process that ensures
> TurboTax is used in accordance with the TurboTax software license and
> services agreement.
>
> * Product activation ties printing and filing from the TurboTax
> federal product to a single computer, preventing unlicensed use of the
> product.
>
> * Privacy was a key consideration when implementing the Product
> Activation technology in TurboTax. Product activation is completely
> anonymous -- no personal information is transmitted to Intuit.
>
> * Product activation transfers nothing but a Product Key and Request
> Code. The Key and Code key are matched together and a confirmation is sent
> from Intuit that activates TurboTax on your computer.
>
> * Product activation does not monitor any activities on your computer
> nor will it prevent you from using your CD-R or CD-RW drives.
>
> * The functionality that manages the TurboTax product activation
> (Macrovision SafeCast(r)) can be deleted from your computer when you are
> done using TurboTax. The uninstall utility is available on our support site
> at
> http://www.turbotaxsupport.com/default.asp?platfo
>
> I hope this information answers your questions. If you would like to get
> more information about product activation, please see the Product Activation
> page at http://www.turbotaxsupport.com/default.asp?platfo
>
> &docid=815. You are a valued customer and your opinion matters. If I can
> answer any additional concerns that you may have, please let me know.
>
> Joyce
> Executive Response Team
> Intuit. Inc.
> [snip]
>
>
> In response to the following E-mail received:
>
> I'm sad to hear about your product activation scheme. I will not buy
> TurboTax this year (as I have for many years so far) because of it. What's
> depressing for me is that I think the product is so good, otherwise - that
> is, without the product activation, I would be 100% certain to buy and use
> TurboTax, but with it, I'm 100% certain *not* to.
Is this discussion a DMCA violation? (Score:4, Interesting)
--jeff++
taxes? (Score:4, Funny)
IRS should provide XML-based forms, rules (Score:5, Interesting)
Two problems with Intuit (Score:4, Insightful)
Second, in my experience, people tend to see in others what they see in themselves. Intuit sees dishonesty in others. I think it would be very, very foolish to give sensitive financial data to a company that sees dishonesty in itself. I could be wrong, of course, but the risk is simply too great. Never make a bet you can't afford to lose.
Make it clear (Score:5, Insightful)
1. I wrote to Intuit telling them why I will not buy TurboTax ever again. They violated my trust. I will not trust them with my taxes again. I already stopped upgrading Quicken with Deluxe 2000 because it became noticably slower and because it is not available in a Linux version. Tell them you will buy TaxCut (if you plan to buy tax software again) next year and that this is why.
2. Join the EFF [eff.org]. I give them a small contribution every year.
3. Write your congressional delegation about your opposition to the DMCA. The existing laws are enough. The DMCA could be construed as making disk image backup software illegal!
Vote with your dollars. Intuit is never, EVER getting another dime from me.
If you feel the same way, great. But be sure to LET THEM KNOW.
Re:win4lin and vmware (Score:3, Insightful)
If Connectix pulls this nonsense next year, I am definately switching. I only bought it this year because I was unaware at the time. This is definately just too much to bear.
Re:win4lin and vmware (Score:3)
I meant to say if *Intuit* pulls this stuff next year.....
Re:win4lin and vmware (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Tax preparation for Macintosh (Score:5, Funny)
How, in the name of God, does a post which consists of three questions get modded "5 Informative"?
"5 Interrogative", would be more appropriate, no?
T&K.
Re:I just bought that yesterday! (Score:5, Funny)
2) Remove floppy drive from computer.
3) Install TurboTax.
4) Shut down computer.
5) Remove CD drive.
6) Power up.
7) Ooops. Unable to boot, MBR corrupt.
8) Return to shop, and demand compensation for 'destruction' of computer.
9) Be refused compensation.
10) Hire ludicrously overpriced consultant to fix MBR (say $300).
11) Send bill to TurboTax.
12) Have bill returned with letter expaining politely that it's not their problem.
13) Forward bill and letter to national news services who love to publish this kind of crap.
14) Watch the bottom drop out of TurboTax's share price, and smile.
Note: Paying the consultant is optional.
Re:I just bought that yesterday! (Score:5, Insightful)
The sad thing is that I think the EULA allows them to make this statement, as I believe it explicitly states that they are not responsible for damage done to your machine or software as a result of using their product. Warranty only guarantees you what you paid for their product.... I'd love to see how well it would stand up in court in a case like this, where their product did something known to be destructive in some cases without bothering to inform you of it ahead of time.
Re:I just bought that yesterday! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I just bought that yesterday! (Score:5, Interesting)
The point is, you make a media case out of the company and in light of a well informed marketplace, hope that people will see this software as dangerous and refuse to use it on that basis, especially when they clearly refuse to pay for damage that they clearly caused.
And EULA's aren't the impenetrable blanket they might appear to be. Yes, we can use them to avoid getting sued because some overlooked bug did something undesireable. But as far as I know, a contract that involves illegal activity is not a legal contract. And as long as initiating the spread of a dangerous virus is considered illegal (and judging by the arrests and convictions to that effect, I'm going to assume it is), the only thing a virus writer would have to do to exempt themselves from prosecution would be to include a EULA along with the virus that somehow the victim would agree to. Nobody reads them anyway, so the virus would still spread just as rapidly.
Writing to the boot sector is dangerous, and application software has NO reason to do so. As far as I'm concerned, make a public spectacle out of them. Let the public realize that in the name of DRM some software companies are doing inherently dangerous things, and let other software companies know that this type of activity will not be tolerated.
-Restil
Re:OK, this explains a lot (Score:3, Interesting)
1) www.turbotax.com you can do all your taxes on the web, with seemingly full functionality of the turbotax CD package. There are different levels that you can access, from very basic (and therefore cheapest) to full-featured. Also, if your income is under 27k (i believe) you can use turbotax on the web for FREE. You'll have to look for the link on their site for that. turbotax on the web does both federal and state and files electronically with option to print.
2) Taxcut from H.R.Block. Their software seems to be aimed as a full replacement for Intuit's, and it does appear to work. I still haven't had time to sit down and run through the different filing scenarios and see if TaxCut was as effective as TurboTax, but it looks solid.
By the way, I totally understand why Intuit is instituting this draconian measure, even if it pisses me off as a user. Tax software, unlike just about any other software, has a useful life of 4 and a half months (you wouldn't use it earlier than Jan 1st, and probably not later than April 15th) and infact, it's something you use exactly once. So unlike most other software, there's absolutely no chance that you'll "use it, love it, buy it eventually". Nor can Intuit compensate for piracy by jacking up the price, because there's only so much that people would pay for this software, since:
(1) It's something you use once, so you won't pay for it as much as you'd pay for an office suite you can use, potentially, for half a decade.
(2) You won't pay more than you perceive it will save you in tax returns.
Meanwhile, each year means tons of development for Intuit, with the ever-changing tax code. So it's absolutely imperative for them to make sure people pay for their software rather than have 10 people use the same CD to do their taxes or jus sharing the shit on Kazaa.
And yeah, to be honest it may be worth putting up with. If TaxCut proves to not be flexible enough for what I need to do ( a lot of contractual work, etc. Not a simple W-2 scenario ) then I'll bite the bullet and buy TurboTax, boot sector be damned.