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A 1974 Review of D&D

michael posted more than 11 years ago | from the start-of-an-era dept.

Games 404

CleverNickName writes "Boing Boing pointed me to this 1974 review of the 'new' Dungeons and Dragons game. Some highlights: D&D was subtitled 'Rules for Fantastic Medieval Wargams Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil and Miniature Figures.' The reviewer concludes, 'In general, the concept and imagination involved is stunning. However, much more work, refinement, and especially regulation and simplification is necessary before the game is managable.'"

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THIS IS GAY! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358667)

Pointless crap

frist postty? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358668)

BAWHH??!!

Re:frist postty? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358678)

It may be frist postty, but it's certainly not FIRST POST. You fail it [despair.com] miserably!

if this is forst (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358670)

It will be my third today.

If not, I had a good run anyway.

forst. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358711)

forst gump.

(you dillweed)

Ah the good old days (2, Insightful)

stankyho (172180) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358671)

I remember playing D&D back then. Back when it took imagination to play a good RPG.

1974? 1982! (2, Funny)

conner_bw (120497) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358796)

I don't know about the 1974 good old days, but in 1982 Tom Hanks and his imagination [imdb.com] turned him into a sick delusional mental patient. Beware! A good RPG can make you insane!

On a lighter note, Tom hanks did seem to have snapped out of it by he had his 1984 Bachelor Party. Man come to think of it... why doesn't Tom Hanks submit star trek stories to this site?

first poop (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358673)

i win!

A Troll apologizes (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358674)

For the last year, I've been posting inflamatory messages under various handles. I'm not proud of what I've done, but I hope to explain my actions so everyone can at least understand it.

When I first joined AOL, I hadn't had that much experience with the internet. I naturally gravitated to the politics forums, since I watch tv to keep myself informed of current events.

I was shocked by all the Republican rhetoric - war is good, civil liberties are bad, people demonizing poor mothers, racist and anti-semetic attacks, and constant ass kissing of the rich and powerful. I am a conservative, but I would post against these people and register my disapproval.

Of course, writing a well reasoned response to rabid propaganda had the expected effect: just more attacks, and lots of insinuations that I was involved in sexual practices that I most certainly am not.

After one particualarly obscene posting from someone CLAIMING to be a Republican, I shot back a witty comeback in which I claimed to be a Republican too, and I took his idea to a ridiculous point that would offend all normal Americans. Reductio ad absurdem, as the French would say. I expected him to call me names again, but I was shocked that he took me seriously, and told me he forwarded my posts to a few Republican friends. I was amused, somewhat frightened, and a bit curious.

Then everything got out of hand. I started posting the most vile, crazy, semi-illiterate crap, and the Republicans and conservatives keep agreeing. I wrote that the ACLU was hell bent on destroying our country because they defend free speech for bad people like the KKK. I said that Bill Clinton personally trained terrorists in Arkansas. I explained that Fox news is really centrist, but all the other large corporations were so hell bent on destroying capitalism that FOX seemed conservative in comparison. And I wrote that one black welfare queen was responsible for 2% of the 1998 federal budget, and posted a link to a long, complicated chart about accounting or something.

Since then, things have gone pretty well. I've got a blog now, I've been a semi-regular guest on a few talk radio shows, and I'm in discussion with Bantam for a book tentatively titled, Why Do You Hate America So Much?

Anyway, I just wanted to say thank you to all of you who responded, and especially those of you who took my writing and reposted it around the internet. I think that was what kept me going, even when someone called me on that welfare link (boy, was that embarrasing!)

And I am truly very sorry for trolling.

I'll be signing copies of some of my most classic posts at Borders Books in San Francisco March 3, 7:00 PM. See you there!

Re:A Troll apologizes (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358685)

Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

ShuT UP fUCKEr (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358758)

Everyone hates you now.

Offtopic? no (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358907)

It's a troll, morons. Much like the email virus hoaxes that are themselves a form of self-replicating email.

Sheesh. (5, Funny)

majestynine (605494) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358677)

I know Slashdot is renowned for posting news thats weeks or even months old, but *this* is just stupid!

Re:Sheesh. (4, Insightful)

Xzzy (111297) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358757)

I know you're joking, but it should be a valuable example to the anti-slashdot trolls that just because something didn't happen within the past 8 hours doesn't mean it is an uninteresting story.

I suppose implying an old story is new could be worth a valid complaint, but the simple act of posting something "old" isn't inherently wrong. Slashdot is at it's best when it directs us to links that focus on nerdly curiosities.. I don't care when it was created, if I haven't read it before it qualifies as "news".

Re:Sheesh. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358784)

I know you're joking, but it should be a valuable example to the anti-slashdot trolls that just because something didn't happen within the past 8 hours doesn't mean it is an uninteresting story.

But THIS story is conslusive proof that you are incorrect :-)

Re:Sheesh. (2, Funny)

red_dragon (1761) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358781)

How do you know this is not a duplicate article, eh?

Re:Sheesh. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358876)

The really impressive part is that this is the oldest story that isn't a dupe.

Okay, really now (5, Funny)

mattdm (1931) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358679)

Does it *get* more geeky than a story about D&D sent in by Wil Wheaton? I can't see how it possibly could.

Re:Okay, really now (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358693)

First ROFL!!!

Re:Okay, really now (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358705)

Yes, you could be reading it on a Friday night.

Re:Okay, really now (4, Funny)

mattdm (1931) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358774)

Heh. You mean *we* could be reading it on a Friday night.

Re:Okay, really now (2, Insightful)

Ryan Stortz (598060) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358847)

Why do the stories that remind me I'm a total loser always show up on friday night?

Re:Okay, really now (1)

alaric187 (633477) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358712)

Yeah, because stories about beowulf clusters and linux running everything from a bar to your tv is completely normal? Cool maybe, but if you ask the average person what a beowulf cluster is, they'll mention something about English Lit.

Re:Okay, really now (1)

Lord_Slepnir (585350) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358738)

A story about a version D&D for linux sent in by Wil Wheaton.

Re:Okay, really now (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358864)

> A story about a version [of] D&D for linux sent in by Wil Wheaton.

A story about an encrypted open source animé version of D&D for Linux sent in by Wil Wheaton and Natalie Portman.

Disaster could have been averted (4, Funny)

Sagarian (519668) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358681)

If the review were more vehemently negative, the celibacy of thousands could have been averted.

Re:Disaster could have been averted (5, Funny)

EvilSporkMan (648878) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358733)

That WAS an aversion of disaster. Think how many more people that'd be in about 10 generations. Way to fight overpopulation!

Re:Disaster could have been averted (1)

LooseChanj (17865) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358822)

What makes you think they'd have been any more socially adept or attractive if they'd had more time to work with their computers?

Did anybody actually (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358684)

use those dumb figurines, or was that just a TSR "trading card, collect them all" scam?

Re:Did anybody actually (1)

Jeremy Erwin (2054) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358773)

TSR just published the rules-- the miniatures could be purchased from third parties.

TSR did license the name "Dungeons & Dragons" to Grenadier, but (I think) that deal postdated 1st edition.

Dungeon's and Dragons began as a extension to the Chainmail miniature rules-- which was also included in the box. The physical quality of the Chainmail rulebook outstripped the quality of the other "role playing" books.

Much more regulation? (4, Funny)

Hawthorne01 (575586) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358689)

However, much more work, refinement, and especially regulation and simplification is necessary before the game is managable.'"

And 19 years and dozens of rule books later, the quest continues..... :-)

Re:Much more regulation? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358706)

2003
-1974
-----
29

RPN example (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358715)

2003 1974

Re:Much more regulation? (1)

Hawthorne01 (575586) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358732)

If you add in the ten years of my life I lost to playing D+D, my math works out fine. ;-)

It's only funny 'cause it's true....

Re:Much more regulation? (2, Funny)

dalassa (204012) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358803)

Second edition was managable, you just had to ue the secret magical DM power of, "No! Bad Player!"

"Can I use this supplement?" "No! Bad Player!"
"My old DM said..." "Bad Player, No XP."
"We should so do this in GURPS." *DM does a Shadowrun and shoots the player*

See? Simple.

Re:Much more regulation? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358873)

In response to your sig: No, Feminism is the notion that feminists are -better- people.

I have no D&D experience... (3, Interesting)

ndnet (3243) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358709)

I've never played D&D - doing so required friends (which I'm already out of the running) that liked the game.

Still, I did collect a large number of AD&D cards, though I lost those after some water damage.

I've played Baldur's Gate, and it's pretty decent, but how much better is an actual D&D game?

Re:I have no D&D experience... (2, Insightful)

Anne_Nonymous (313852) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358739)

AD&D:Book::Baldur:Movie

Re:I have no D&D experience... (4, Insightful)

Alien54 (180860) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358746)

vaguely like a lan party, but it's all face to face, and narrated.

A lot depends on the referee / game master.

sort of like how a joke can be messed up or great depending on who tells it.

Re:I have no D&D experience... (3, Informative)

elmegil (12001) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358908)

A lot depends on the referee / game master.

A lot? Try everything. D&D gives you a framework, and consistent rules for engagement so you don't think you're at the GM's whims, but without someone who

  • has imagination
  • is organized
  • is able to keep a group of unruly nerds in line
the game is still unplayable. This was proven to me time and again in a group of us with rotating gamemasters a long while back. Only one GM was worth playing with....

Re:I have no D&D experience... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358749)

If you get a decent group of people, a real d&d game walks all over CRPG (Computer Role Playing Games). That said i think most "RPG" games are still little more than hack and slash, although even with the best of games the social interaction and use of imagination will always IMO make for a much better experience.

HZ.

Re:I have no D&D experience... (1)

SoSueMe (263478) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358782)

It was no better by todays gaming standards. All you needed were a notebook, pencil, some funky multi-sided die, a couple books (DM Guide & Player's Handbook), some friends and a shitload of imagination. Your notebook was a sacred possession.

Think of a "LAN Party" or something without the electronic bulk.

Re:I have no D&D experience... (1)

SoSueMe (263478) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358819)

Apparently, Gary Gygax (credited with creating D&D) is still busy in this genre. Click here [gygax.com] . Unfortunately, there is a shortage of detail on the site.

Re:I have no D&D experience... (1)

Shardis (198372) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358891)

Well, I can only speak from a few years of experience. 10+ or so. I DID like Baldur's Gate, and BG2, and the TOB expansion (Haven't done the NWN bit yet). It's much better than most games out there, unless you cound one of my personal favorites, MUD's. ;)

It's good, but compared to a good DnD game, *extremely* limited. Yeah, you can go out and drink yourself stupid and even get laid irl, but if you can get a descent group together with a good imagination (less common than you'd think), you can spend almost endless hours hanging out and bullshitting and playing. A DM that knows the various rules helps lubricate playing and keep the action going, but the primary thing is having fun and exploring... whatever you want. It's a genuinely good time if you can suspend disbelief and get into things. Just don't forget to have a life, and don't forget you really can't fly and jump off a cliff. :P

DnD has gotten slagged enough 'cause of mentally unbalanced people taking things too seriously...

I must do this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358710)

go to rpol.net
and/or to www.pbem.com
for ultimate geekiness
play dnd (and other roleplaying games) online with little graphics, text only

play by post/play by email

OOC:I hope no one is recoding my IP

Wow! (0)

Jellybob (597204) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358719)

It's a link straight to a .gif, and they havn't been /.ed yet!

What's wrong with you people tonight ;)

Re:Wow! (0, Offtopic)

Tyler Eaves (344284) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358766)

Not surprising. A decent pipe isn't that hard to find. In addition, it's a HELL of a lot easier for the server to serve a straight binary file than some PHP-coded, theme/skin-ridden bloatware.

Re:Wow! (1)

korea (615587) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358775)

umich = fat pipes. it's a reasonably small file about something that is of a very limited scope of interest.

Hey (-1, Offtopic)

xmnemonic (603000) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358723)

Hello Wil Wheaton. How are you?

Pussies (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358729)

Ahhhh, I've never had as much fun as I did kicking the fuck out of little D&D pussies in high school. Whats fags.

D&D Irony (1, Redundant)

korea (615587) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358734)

Heh, this is great to see. It tickles me that this article was consequently dug up from more than likely a nice metaphorical archive 'dungeon'. I can't wait until D&D 3.5 Edition. Druids will change the most, but eh... Min/Max number crunchers will always find fun ways to make ridiculous characters. Thank god for (though intellectual) backwards compatibility. D&D has really evolved. Some would say for the worst, but it has always been this great, cheap hobby that promotes the imagination, mathematics, and cameraderie. A lot of people misunderstand and look down on Dungeons and Dragons, and I guess it's really refreshing to think that in 1974 that it had gotten a fair review. Pen and paper tabletop games tend to be a great hobby, and I think TSR handing their brainchild to wizards of the coast was for the best.

Re:D&D Irony (1)

korea (615587) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358745)

Might I add,

Go Blue!

Re:D&D Irony (1)

Phantasmo (586700) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358902)

I always loved D&D, and when Third Edition came out I was overjoyed. I preordered all three core rulebooks and introduced my closest friends to one of my favourite childhood hobbies.

That was about four years ago - now, thanks to version "3.5" I have to repurchase those core rulebooks, along with my DM's screen so I can keep current.

I was more than happy to buy supplements (Monster Manual 2, Epic Level Handbook, Tome and Blood) to support Wizards, but having to throw away my old books and adventures in order to enjoy new material is not something that I look forward to.

3.5E is an insult. From now on, Wizards is dead to me!

DEAD!

I'm going to stick with White Wolf [white-wolf.com] - sure, they update more often than Wizards, but at least you only have to buy one book (not three) to play a given game.

phone/mail D&D (4, Funny)

unsinged int (561600) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358741)

The optimum solution seems to be play by phone, or when distances are too great, play by mail.

Oh I can see this working. "Hey, Fred, did you get my letter I mailed last week? You know, the one where I rolled a 20? I haven't heard from you yet. Did we kill the sucker or not?"

And old D&D book got me into RPG video games (4, Interesting)

mao che minh (611166) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358743)

When I was a kid, my sister's boyfriend had this weird book about knights and wizards that he duplicated the art work from. It contained all sorts of pictures and descriptions of fantastic monsters and magical weapons and items. The artwork was great. It also had a brief quest that you could play. You were a warrior that had to go into a dungeon and hunt down a rogue wizard (called a "mage", a term that I had never heard at that time). It presented you with a narrative, a story, that asked of you to make decisions on what to do next. It also asked that you roll a dice at certain times and goto a certain page dependant upon the result. I remember dying by this damn giant spider about 8 times. I felt rewarded when I finished it - it was fun.

It was a cool book, a Dungeons and Dragons book. The adults told me that it was bad and made people act out elaborate fantasies and commit violent crimes. So I gave it up before ever actually playing it in the classic sense. But when this game for the Nintendo came out named "Dragon Warrior", I pounced on it. In a way, it a was a video game representation of what I loved about that book. I have since been a avid RPG video game player since.

Re:And old D&D book got me into RPG video game (1)

Jellybob (597204) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358789)

I'm the same, but a lot newer to D&D, since my first RPG I've actually got into was Neverwinter Nights (which got reinstalled after a break a couple of nights ago. God damn that lack of sleep!)

Re:And old D&D book got me into RPG video game (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358883)

..Probably because NWN can actually give some manner of representation of roleplaying.

Just like the zealots here scream every time some reporter misues the word 'hacker', I'm going to start screaming every time some game company misues the term 'roleplaying'.

To put it simply, killing the monster, getting the experience, and winning the game ain't roleplaying. Sure, you can have killing the monster - violence happens. Sure, you can have getting the experience - without 'coded' rules, there'd be no roleplaying due to twinks and "powerplayers". Winning? That's right out. You can't win in a roleplaying game.*

Fight the system! Damn the man! Screw the bastards who wish to corrupt good, fine words!

* Unless you roll a three-sided die and have it land on an edge. Then, you have won, and may never play another roleplaying game. Ever.

The story of my (spare time) life... (1)

skippythehobbit (647706) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358744)

If i had a dime for every rpg book i ever owned.... I still couldn't afford those stupid 3ed %$^# d&d books! At $30 each, you would think the WOtC was the Riaa.

Acolyte Dorn (5, Funny)

MoonFacedAssassin (539728) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358755)

<from the article>...the Acolyte Dorn from the village of Thane ventured into the ruins of Takator...</from the article>

Whoa! Michael Dorn played D&D?? Coincidence that Wil Wheaton posts this story...I think not.

Still have the orginal three brown books (1)

Gilmoure (18428) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358761)

While not gaming with D&D any more, I'm still RPGing with GURPS. Waste of time? Perhaps. But it's cheaper than drugs and less morally repugnant than professional sports (of what possible connection is there between me and a bunch of rich jocks playing a game with a ball?). Wife doesn't get gaming much, but then she's a solitare fanatic on the computer. Go figure.

much simplification is neede (1)

dirk (87083) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358763)

And thus was born roleplaying with crayons. To think that D&D could have been a complex, complete role-playing system if not for this article. Instead it became the dice-rolling combat system it is today.

I give credit to D&D for starting the genre, but the genre moved past D&D long ago.

Re:much simplification is neede (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358818)

The dice are random fate in action, nothing more.

The game system should not get in the way of role playing. You can't stop someone determined to ruin a game, or min/max to death. It's just not possible.

THIS JUST IN!! (4, Funny)

josh crawley (537561) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358764)

We recently got an email from a guy in Finland that he's going to duplicate a Unix box on commodity hardware! If you would like to give a hand, Send the person, Linus Torvalds an email or post on comp.os.minix ! He really needs your help.

Re:THIS JUST IN!! (3, Funny)

op00to (219949) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358787)

He's insane, Minix is the end-all be-all *nix on my 386!

Re:THIS JUST IN!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358802)

He would certainly get a low grade for that design in my class

Not more regulation, less regulation (0)

Hao Wu (652581) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358768)

Less rules was better in my opinion. It let me free my story-line, and a GOOD dungeon master could bend any rule to make the game better, or move it along at least.

If you want more rules, go play a game like mine sweep.

Admit it. (1)

kirknall (575369) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358770)

Most of you out there at least tried it once or twice. Even if the rules were horribly cumbersome and difficult to understand (for an 11 year old, anyway).
You rolled up 100 times more characters than you ever finished campaigns with, because you either had a DM that took great pleasure in killing you in the most demeaning way possible, or you simply never had the requisite 400 hours to finish a campaign in the first place.
If anyone hasn't, I pity you. You'll never appreciate what it's like to be "the wondrous wizard of Latin!" or even the "dervish of declension and a conjurer of conjugation, with a million hit points and maximum charisma."
On an off note, Karma can have a religious connotation to it. Charisma is a bit more non-denominational.....

Quotes courtesy snpp.com for those who know or care.

Just a few years later . . . (1)

GMontag (42283) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358771)

Just a few years later, about 1978 or 1979, the game "Traveler" riveted my interest in a much more interesting way. Then I got a car and a girlfriend, but I progress . . .

The couple of D&D Dungeons I was involved in then were interesting, but I never really got the "big deal" of it.

Very interesting. (4, Interesting)

Lendrick (314723) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358772)

I'm especially amused at the bit about $3.50 apiece (or $10 for the whole set) being expensive. And here I paid sixty bucks for the three core D&D3 books and felt like I was getting a deal. I won't even start on how much all the other accessory books I've bought have set me back.

That said, D&D has come a long way from its roots. I've never played 1st edition, but I played a lot of second, and it in comparison to 3rd, it feels at the same time far too limiting and overly complicated. I was surprised how much they managed to simultaneously simplify the game and allow for so many more options.

Out of curiosity, those of you who have played all three and a half revisions of D&D, which one did you like the most?

Re:Very interesting. (2, Insightful)

Gilmoure (18428) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358800)

I started with the first version (three books in a white box) and within a year or two (memory fading now-a-days) had a copy of the Player's Manual and Monster Manual (v. 1). Did several years of playing but kept running into rule natzi's. Eventually settled in with a group of friends that did very open-ended play (really needed a good DM/GM for this). Got away from the books altogether and our games really became free form story telling.

A few years later, wanting to get into Traveller, I got into GURPS and really like the system. It's looser than D&D (as I remember it, not getting into v2 of the hardback books) but provides as much framework as you like or need.

$10, Cheap! (1)

No Such Agency (136681) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358814)

Yes, I imagine anyone who's ever spent $400 on a modest army for Warhammer Fantasy Battle, and spent the better part of $100 on rulebooks and "Codices" so they know how to use the army, would sympathize with you. That $10, even with inflation, was probably a bargain.

Re:$10, Cheap! (1)

Geopoliticus (126152) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358867)

That is one modest 40k army. I have spent so much on this game and only have about 30 of my minis painted! That's works out to about one mini every 73 days. "Oh, I've wasted my life."

Re:Very interesting. (1)

LaissezFaire (582924) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358874)

Yup, inflation is negligible.

Anyway, I played red book basic, blue book expert, and 1st or second edition AD&D. Dungeon Master's Guide had the big demon on it, Player's Manual had some sort of warrior, maybe?

While I knew the rules for AD&D pretty well, I think I like basic best. You didn't have to get bogged down in encumberance. Ick.

Re:Very interesting. (1)

Lendrick (314723) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358893)

My house encumbrance rule is, "Wow, sounds like you're trying to carry a lot of crap. We better add the weights up just to make sure you can do it."

Fortunately, most of the players I have aren't packrats at all, but then I don't give out much treasure. :)

Grand-daddy of all those RPGs. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358777)

It's fascinating to read this. By the time I was a nerd, AD&D had taken over, and had certainly corrected enough of the deficiencies to make it playable.

But what makes this so interesting is that so many of todays PC RPGs have their basis in D&D rules. Sure, they've evolved significantly and taken different directions in different games, but the fact remains that most RPGs have their battle decisions based on complex mathematical rulesets, and D&D basically introduced these. (Orc attacks with 3d8, beating your 2d10 defence and inflicting d8 damage.)

Early computer 'RPG' were very simplistic in their battle rules, rarely better than 'attacker wins', but by the time that home computers advanced enough to support better rulesets, there was a very advanced 'template' for developers to start from.

Re:Grand-daddy of all those RPGs. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358791)

Complex mathematics? I think RPGs should include more tensor calculus to throw off the kids.

I remember watching (4, Funny)

Zapdos (70654) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358785)

The strange people who played this all night long in the lounge.. As far as I know they all are still virgins.

Re:I remember watching (1)

sconeu (64226) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358805)

Nope. I'm married with kids. :-)

Re:I remember watching (2, Funny)

cranos (592602) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358863)

Hmmm not only did I play D&D, AD&D, Rifts, Heroes Unlimited and many others but strangly enough I am married with 1 and a half kids.

Imagination and the desire to move outside the square is usually a bonus in a sex life not a deficit.

Re:I remember watching (1)

Gilmoure (18428) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358912)

I might be a virgin in my ear.

I'm married with child now. Back when I was single, there were two occasions where I had three women at once (or rather, we all had a slimey, gloopy, fun time together) and numerous other times with two women. Nothing like having a bi-sexual girlfriend who liked to share and that all the women wanted. I'll admit that my time spent gaming that year was somewhat less than in other years.

Play By Phone? (5, Funny)

Quaoar (614366) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358786)

How the hell is the DM supposed to physically abuse the players if we did that?!

Or... (1)

No Such Agency (136681) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358853)

As Penny Arcade pointed out about Magic: Online [penny-arcade.com] ...

Re:Play By Phone? (4, Funny)

OblvnDrgn (167720) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358881)

No, no. You've got it all wrong.

A good DM mentally and emotionally abuses the players. It's far more satisfying than just hitting them with a rolled up newspaper when they try to twink. You know you're a good "referee" when the very mention of a Ring of Wishing puts fear into their hearts.
"Yes, please. Make a wish. I'm sure that this one... unlike the last seventeen your party has made... won't horribly backfire at all. Trust me."

Printing D&D (5, Interesting)

duplicate-nickname (87112) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358795)

Here's an interesting story....

My father's family ran a small printing business in Twin Lakes, WI (not too far from Lake Geneva). Back in the early 70's, these two guys from a small company came to my dad needing booklets to be printed for a new game. He and his brother decided against taking the risk of doing this large job and turned them down. It turns out that they were from TSR, trying to get D&D printed. Doh!

Sucks to be you (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358809)

too bad your father didn't kill himself. Kill two fuckheads with one bullet, so-to-speak

MODS ARE USELESS! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358880)

Here's an interesting story....

Oh, he said interesting... so it must be true, lets mod up this worthless scumbag for his 'story' that contains no truth what-so-ever.

This shit is SO gay, (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358801)

fucking 70's style

NEVER say an unkind word about the time (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358833)

Me and CoyBoi based our whole lives on Dungeons And the Dragons.
I'm a flaming homo who loves the ass, and tubby here is my nigger man servant. WHAT!

I remember this wager I made (1)

baywulf (214371) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358820)

When I was DM for a D&D game in my younger days one of my friends kept nagging me that he wanted me to place a +5 magic vorpal sword in the game for him to find. I got tired of the nagging after a while and told him he could roll the 100 die and if it came a 00 I would give him the sword and otherwise, he would lose all his considerable magic items. I thought he was a sucker for taking the change but he did and lo and behold he rolled the die and got the 00.

Re:I remember this wager I made (1)

dazed-n-confused (140724) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358910)

... so the next monster he encountered cut off his head with a vorpal blade?

Or did I miss the punchline?

Gary already saw it... (1)

waytoomuchcoffee (263275) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358821)

Someone pointed out this story to Gary yesterday [lejendary.com] , interestingly enough.

You might want to check out his new MMORPG [gamepoint.net] , based off his Paper-and-Pencil game Lejendary Adventure. A FAQ on the online game is here [gamepoint.net] .

But come on, who uses "rules"? (1)

Lord Bitman (95493) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358828)

some of the best games I've played where ones in which we rolled the die, 20 meant good, 1 meant bad, and anything inbetween was entirely random.
The games are about role-playing. Keeping track of shit just gets in the way. Hit points, and how much gold you have. Ignore anything else. You shot him with an arrow did you? Well shit, then. He sure as hell is dead. Grazing shots my ass.

And I'll tell you, I'm sore.

Re:But come on, who uses "rules"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358911)

"You shot him with an arrow did you? Well shit, then. He sure as hell is dead. Grazing shots my ass."

I hope you hit him directly in the heart, and managed to kill him with shock, otherwise, he's not quite dead yet.

Even a shot through the eye, depending on the angle of entry, would only result in a slow, lingering death.

*sigh* At least D&D reflected the fact that the purpose of archery on the battlefield wasn't killing.

People finally started to get it through their heads that arrows = wound and disable. Then, Peter Jackson had to give Legolas a Bow +5 with a quiver full of Arrows of INSTANT DROP OVER DEAD EVEN THOUGH IT DIDN'T EVEN HIT YOU!!!!

Pah.

Hey, cut this out! (3, Funny)

Lethyos (408045) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358834)

michael, don't you realize that Dungeons & Dragons is a tool of The Devil? Satan uses D&D to warp and manipulate young minds into doing the will of darkness! How dare you use such a popular forum for advocating and informing people of this horror. D&D is nothing but suicide, sex, drugs, and evil! Burn it!

Oh wait a minute, you mean it's just a game? Sheesh!

Talk about missing the point! (5, Insightful)

apeleg (159527) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358839)

"The scope is too grand, while the referee is expected to do too much in relation to the players ..."

The beauty of D&D can be boiled down to two propositions:

1. Anything can happen.
2. The Dungeon Master is God (and a capricious one at that).

This is why computer rpg's are, at best, pale imitations of a good pen and paper game.

And how has it managed since then? (2, Funny)

kfg (145172) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358841)

"However, much more work, refinement, and especially regulation and *simplification* is necessary before the game is managable."

Well, they sure blew THAT one, didn't they?

KFG

DUPE (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5358865)

This story is a dupe [slashdot.org] .

Plus ca change, plus c'est le meme chose (1)

dazed-n-confused (140724) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358892)

'In general, the concept and imagination involved is stunning. However, much more work, refinement, and especially regulation and simplification is necessary before the game is managable.'

Amen to that, brother! Maybe the fourth edition rules will clear this up...

This does not bode well for Tom Hanks. (-1, Offtopic)

Picass0 (147474) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358899)

RUN FOREST RUN!!!! [imdb.com]

In related news (-1, Offtopic)

Huh? (105485) | more than 11 years ago | (#5358905)

Teenage boys and young men everywhere are suffering from a new epidemic dubbed 'lack-a-nookie'.
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