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Ogg Vorbis Portables On The Way

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the when-when-when dept.

Announcements 362

Emmettfish writes "According to this release on Xiph.org, it looks like the Neuros player will support Linux users, and also give them the ability to play back Vorbis files on the move, starting in late May. Go Ogg! Remember, donating a few bucks to Xiph may not make the world a better place, but it'll definitely help it sound a lot better." For those of us craving a portable that plays from cheap CD-Rs rather than flash media or a hard drive, Emmett says by email that an agreement for development of firmware for a CD-based Ogg player is in the works, too.

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362 comments

Aquarium discovers two GAY PENGUINS (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5369836)

SUMMARY: Officials at the New York Aquarium finally realize that the most dedicated couple in the penguin enclosure is a pair of males.

Wendell and Cass would be more comfortable in a Greenwich Village one bedroom apartment than their current home at the New York Aquarium.

The male penguins, each about 14 years old, can't get enough of each other. The couple has been together for the past eight years, and the two have sex with each other whenever they can, which is often.

Presumably penguins can tell the guys from the gals, but aquarium officials apparently can't. For years they thought the pair was one of each. The truth didn't come out until aquarium staff carried out a blood test.

Angie Pelekedis, a spokeswoman for the aquarium on Coney Island, said: "They're one of the most dedicated couples in the penguin enclosure."

Penguin keeper Stephanie Mitchell added: "I was only seeing one mate with the other, but then one of the other keepers saw it happen the other way round so we did a blood test that proved they were both male.

"Cass tends to be a rather aggressive bird. Wendell is very nervous; always has been. He's on edge all the time. They're currently in a dispute with another couple over their nest. It seems to be one of the most desirable places in the penguin enclosure."

Troll 70 of 208 from the annals of the Troll Library [slashdot.org] .

First Post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5369838)

Has it passed?

Re:First Post (-1)

Adolf Hitroll (562418) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369873)

nope : you failed it.
but does it play ogg, btw ?

BUT DOES IT SUPPORT OGG AND RUN LINUX? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5370066)

How about a beowulf cluster?

Is it open source?

Dont mod me up im not a kharma whore.

this be the f1rs7 ogg!.. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5369840)

just for you Belinda!.. :*

Finally.. (-1, Offtopic)

adamofgreyskull (640712) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369844)

..freedom of movement :)

Re:Finally.. (-1, Offtopic)

adamofgreyskull (640712) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369924)

ungh...ya know...freedom...free as in beer...movement...portable

It must be monday, I never could get the hang of mondays...

It's about time (2, Interesting)

KiahZero (610862) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369846)

I'm glad this is finally happening... too bad it doesn't say how much this thing costs. Speaking as a broke college student, I can't afford to pay a ridiculous premium for a small gain in audio quality.

Re:It's about time (4, Informative)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369863)

$250 for the 128 meg, $400 for the 20GB.

In other words, more than my main desktop computer cost.

Re:It's about time (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5369951)

You must be using a pretty piece of shit desktop then. Let me guess, you're one of those AMD fanboys? Don't turn your back on your CPU fan, would hate for you to come home from school one day and find your house burned down to the ground.

Fucking AMD engineers wouldn't know a thermal diode if it up and bit them in the ass.

Wow (0, Offtopic)

0x0d0a (568518) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370002)

In other words, more than my main desktop computer cost.

I'm assuming you're talking about the 20GB version, but even so...you built your computer system (with a display) for less than $400? Did you buy it used or something?

Re:Wow (1)

DavidLeblond (267211) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370103)

Its not hard. You can get a brand new Lindows computer for $200.

Re:Wow (0, Offtopic)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370147)

My monitor is one they were getting rid of at work, it's 20 inches, from 1993, and sometimes the screen turns kinda pink, but if you bang it, it comes back. :)

I have about 4 other computers, some better than my primary one (one I use for security video capture has a huge hard disk and lots of vid capture cards).

But my main system I primarily use did indeed cost a little less than $400 total. K7SEM + 900Mhz Duron + 20GB hard disk + 256 RAM + Evercase + Antec 300W + CD-R/Floppy. The floppy was from my old computer, but other than that, it was all new components, brand name RAM, etc.

Re:It's about time (2, Insightful)

Dukebytes (525932) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370088)

No kidding. This is great and all - but good lord. All the MP3 players are big $$$$ IMHO.

They have about $12 worth of parts in them if that much and they are all over $150.00... I want one to work out with at the gym - but I'm not paying that much for one when I can have a CD walkman for $20 bucks....

Re:It's about time (1, Informative)

arkanes (521690) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370104)

I got the 128MB Nomad MuVo(stupid name, I know) for 131 from newegg, including shipping. Still a bit pricey, I know, but considering the advantages over a CD player (no skipping, much smaller, 12 hour battery life) I think it's worth it.

Re:It's about time (5, Insightful)

tsa (15680) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369875)

I find the fact that Ogg Vorbis is an open format more important than the small gain in audio quality.

Re:It's about time (1)

frodo from middle ea (602941) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370069)

And I find the fact that the site demo is flash based, very repulsive.
I can't spend two seconds on a site which is purely flash based.

Re:It's about time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5369884)

yeah, now we are looking for more employees.
The current technological scenarios always keeps us on toes.
President
RIAA

Re:It's about time (2, Informative)

radja (58949) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369885)

actually.. on the site, I found the price of $249 for the 128MB, $399 for the 20GB HD one.

$250 for 128MB, $400 for 20GB (4, Informative)

raygundan (16760) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369916)

You can confirm this cost by hitting the CompUSA preorder site (ship date of tomorrow, feb. 25th).

http://www.compusa.com/promos/neuros/default.asp [compusa.com]

Fairly expensive. But I do like the built-in FM transmitter. Also, I would recommend buying the 128MB unit, as the 20GB HDD will be available as a "backpack" that makes the 128 exactly the same (size, shape, capacity) as the 20GB unit. However, the 20GB unit can't be "downgraded" to a smaller, more pocketable 128.

Re:$250 for 128MB, $400 for 20GB (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5370070)

A built in FM transmitter?! Man, setting up your own pirate radio station has never been so easy!

the transmitter (5, Informative)

raygundan (16760) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370084)

It has a *very* limited range. Like you, and maybe the car next to you, if you both have your windows open and the other driver has a good antenna. Hell of a lot cleaner than a tape adapter, and easier than pulling your stereo out to add an RF modulator so that you can plug the thing directly in.

Re:$250 for 128MB, $400 for 20GB (1)

TheCrimsonUnbeliever (638597) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370085)

The kid is right - It works like one of those Microphones you got as a kid - SHORT range though - The site does not say how far but I am guessing within 20M~

An EXCELLENT idea that is

Slashdot celebrates Negro Month: Sammy Davis Jr. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5369852)

Sammy Davis Jr.

On November 19, 1954, the career of Sammy Davis Jr. almost came to a sudden and tragic close. While driving to Los Angeles to record the title tune of the Universal International picture "Six Bridges to Cross", Sammy was the victim of an automobile smash-up and narrowly escaped death. He was so seriously injured that his left eye had to be removed. In spite of the terrible shock, Sammy rallied and went on with his work; he even insisted that he was the "luckiest guy in the world".

Since his accident, Sammy's courageous spirit and ever-growing talent have won him increasingly enthusiastic audiences. Let's hear it for Sammy Davis Jr. !

Celebrate Negro Month 2003 with Slashdot.

MP3 players (5, Insightful)

mschoolbus (627182) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369857)

Well this is obviously good for ogg, but even if this does gain some momentum a big name portable mp3 player manufacturer will simply put it in their player and way underprice these guys.

I am not saying it isn't a good idea at all, but don't you think they could get shut out of business really quick?

Re:MP3 players (4, Interesting)

HaloZero (610207) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369874)

Your point is sound, but that's the way our society/industry works. People who make the money aren't the ones who pioneer new technologies - it's the people who innovate the new inventions, and make them better (e.g. putting new ogg (de|en)coding format in an existing player).

Re:MP3 players (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5370082)

Hash Bang Slash User Slash Bin Slash Perl

/usr does not mean "User". It stands for "Unix System Resource".

Re:MP3 players (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5370034)

Well this is obviously good for ogg...

Shouldn't that read: Well this is obviously good for AOL...

AOL is the creator of Ogg and is the backer of Ogg portables. I'm not surprised if other companies close to AOL and the music companies back this as well considering the format is AOL owned.

Re:MP3 players (0)

matithyahu (560061) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370196)

Lay off the crack okay? It's an open format

Re:MP3 players (4, Funny)

PhilHibbs (4537) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370109)

Good! I don't really care about any individual manufacturer, what I want is a portable Ogg player. If someone else brings out a cheaper or better one, that's fine by me. These guys will get a good few sales by ebing first to market, but after that it's ogg eat ogg (sorry).

Kreskin and "Hypno Duck" (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5369860)

What do you get when you cross Kreskin [amazingkreskin.com] the magician with an insurance-peddling duck? "Hypno Duck" -- The latest AFLAC commercial. This spot received the highest consumer recall score for television ads in the bi-weekly Intermedia consumer survey. Our congratulations to Kreskin, star of AFLAC. Many will recall the Amazing Kreskin as being the omniscient seer who correctly predicted the death of *BSD. [slashdot.org]

Implications: (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5369861)

Would we have to call it joggvorbising then?

nice (1)

robofunk (603189) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369864)

and it's secsi too. i wonder if it will give the ipod a run for its money...

Re:nice (1)

p8 (561334) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370097)

It seems that Ogg Vorbis is already on the minds of the Apples. I can already be integrated with iTunes. They will probably try to incorporate it in their new iPods.. This will probably only happen, when more people will (be forced to) use Ogg Vorbis in stead of MP3.

About time (5, Insightful)

Compact Dick (518888) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369865)


make sure the players support upgradeable firmware for future codec upgrades and I'm set - tho the specification does claim that all future Ogg Vorbis files will be decodable by the current decoder, it may miss out on improvements and enhancements.

The CD-based player is a good idea for those of us with massive disc collections but just cannot be bothered to transfer the songs - much easier with a change of disc.

Speaking of which - one of Ogg Vorbis' strongest selling points is bitrate peeling - you can "peel" a 192 kbps file to 128 kbps and the resulting file will sound just as good as if it were encoded directly off the original CD/wave file.

But there is no tool yet. When can we expect to see one?

Thanks for all the great work.

Re:About time (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5370052)


Speaking of which - one of Ogg Vorbis' strongest selling points is bitrate peeling - you can "peel" a 192 kbps file to 128 kbps and the resulting file will sound just as good as if it were encoded directly off the original CD/wave file.

But there is no tool yet. When can we expect to see one?


So how exactly is this a strong selling point given that there are no tools to produce peelable streams and most clients can't play peelable streams?

Re:About time (4, Informative)

Skuto (171945) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370152)

>Speaking of which - one of Ogg Vorbis' strongest
>selling points is bitrate peeling - you
>can "peel" a 192 kbps file to 128 kbps and the
>resulting file will sound just as good as if it
>were encoded directly off the original CD/wave
>file.

Almost. Peeling will not give *exactly* the same quality, but much better than decode/reencode, and it will be faster too.

>But there is no tool yet. When can we expect to
>see one?

There is a proof-of-concept tool available right now, but it does not get good quality yet. There hasn't been much demand for it yet so developers have focussed elsewhere - maybe with the portables out this will change.

--
GCP

But... (5, Funny)

CHUD-Wretch (578617) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369866)

Does it play Ogg? Oh! it does. I'm going back to sleep.

Re:But... (4, Funny)

Gabrill (556503) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370073)

Now if it only emulated the Atari 2600, we would have an entire Geek hobbyshop in one unit!

Too cool (-1, Troll)

NerdlyMcGeek (632454) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369868)

Good to "hear" that ogg is moving on to the portables. Now if I could be first! Just once dammit!

Nice, but I already have one... (5, Informative)

tjansen (2845) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369869)

Nice, but I already have a portable Ogg Vorbis player: tkcPlayer [thekompany.com]

Petition IRiver! (3, Interesting)

idealord (460644) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369876)

I've got the IRiver MP3 CD player and it's nice but it would be way nicer with OGG support. They've got upgradeable firmware and they mention OGG support in their docs... but it never comes thru!

same here (1)

timothy (36799) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369959)

the iRiver is what I'm waiting for. Slim, decent battery life, plays CD-R/RWs ... when that plays ogg, I want one for my car. Heck, that would be incentive enough to upgrade my terrible speakers! :)

Flash media is nice, hard drives can hold quite a bit at a time, etc, but now that CD burning is (given the context of regular computers users) more of a standard item than a luxury, I'd much rather have my audio stuff on CDs. Portable, replaceable, etc. Could be that flash media will one day be cheap enough that I stop caring that way, but for now, I could put several weeks worth of Car Talk on one CD, and *not* have to erase it when I wanted to put on the next several weeks.

timothy

Re:same here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5370053)

I love my IRiver IMP-350. It's the best buy I ever made. I just hope they add Ogg soon as I don't encode to Ogg only because my Slim X doesn't support it.

FM broadcasting feature. (5, Interesting)

borgdows (599861) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369878)

the MyFi feature of Neuros is very fun, useful and innovative!

MyFi allows you to broadcast the music on your Neuros through any FM radio. Like the one in your car. Or your kitchen. Or your coworker's boombox. MyFi automatically scans the FM radio dial for an available frequency and broadcasts using all digital stereo encoding, just like broadcast towers used by professional radio stations.

I don't think RIAA will like this, but this feature is really a killer-app amha.

Re:FM broadcasting feature. (2, Interesting)

questamor (653018) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369910)

I'd like the ability for it to play different songs on different FM frequencies, so maybe I could be in the office and say someone else could be too, and we could all be listening to different music all streamed from the one device. THAT would be killer!?!

Re:FM broadcasting feature. (2, Insightful)

$0 31337 (225572) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369919)

This kind of technology has been out for a long, long time. There are all kinds of devices that broadcast to a frequency on your radio... why would the RIAA care? The only people that are going to pick it up are the people 2 feet away from your current position.

Re:FM broadcasting feature. (2, Insightful)

trezor (555230) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370062)

Wow! A 2-feet piracy radius.

[sarcasm]

  • According to Hillary Rosen
  • "This would provide a very safe perimiter for pirates worldwide. Having this safety as a bonus would surely lead to an increase in piracy like nothing we have yet seen."

[/sarcasm]

No seriously, really, if their lawyers found out a way to suit these guys for money, they would care.

Law-suits probably has the record insdustries biggest income/outcome ratio as no real wokr is needed. Just free income(tm). It's their new business-model.

Indeed. (5, Insightful)

Compact Dick (518888) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369928)


What this means for me is that I can play my oggs in my friend's car without the aid of any doohickey cable or any other crap like that. All he needs is an FM receiver. A truly useful [and I do not use the word lightly here] innovation. Wonder why no one ever thought of it before...

I really wouldn't worry about the RIAA here - more likely is the FCC who dictates frequency spectrum allocation, but the transmitting range should be short enough to satisfy their requirements.

FCC (4, Informative)

crow (16139) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369969)

The FCC allows unlicensed low-power FM broadcasts without a license. This is how drive-in movie theaters usually work--you listen using your car's sound system. I'm sure someone here can post the exact limits the FCC imposes on such broadcasts, but they're certainly much more generous than this device would require.

Re:Indeed. (4, Informative)

cjpez (148000) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370078)

Wonder why no one ever thought of it before...
Um, they have. Drop by your local Radio Shack. For fifteen bucks you can buy a little device that plugs into the headphones jack on any portable device and broadcasts it on a channel of your choice (well, usually there's a choice of maybe four channels to try). This is how we listen to cassette tapes in my girlfriend's car, which only has a CD player. That said, it is pretty cool that it's built right into the device.

Re:FM broadcasting feature. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5369943)

It's nothing new, and it's not a killer feature - it's just so you don't have to hook up your player through a tape adaptor.

There's one for the iPod - $30.

Re:FM broadcasting feature. (2, Interesting)

Mr_Silver (213637) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370000)

the MyFi feature of Neuros is very fun, useful and innovative!

Indeed. Does anyone know of one that can be picked up in the UK (preferably London) which has a range that covers the house?

I'd love to tune the kitchen radio into my MP3's playing in my room without having to mess about with cables and moving equipment.

Re:FM broadcasting feature. (1)

qoncept (599709) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370130)

..Huh? You can do it with a wireless FM modulator you can buy at Radioshack for $10 anyway (and people with a discman or mp3 player in their car do it quite a bit already). It IS awesome that it's built in, though.

Synchronization manager?! (-1, Troll)

SailorBob (146385) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369894)

Positron will be the Linux synchronization manager

Synchronization manager? Why the fuck would we want something like that? This gives me flashbacks to the pre-NexII days of the Rio sync manager! Why the hell not to just mount it as a removable drive and be done with it?

Low bitrates - vast improvement! (5, Informative)

Frodo420024 (557006) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369901)

Recently, I've experimented with Ogg vs. MP3 for streaming voice (lectures, not music), and I find that at the low end of the bandwidth spectrum, Ogg is much better than MP3.

An MP3 file at 32 kbit/second sounds muffled - high frequencies largely removed - while an Ogg at 23 kbit/second (16 kbit nominal) has a much better tonal balance. The Ogg stream is not pristine quality, but much better than the MP3.

If you're interested in packing many hours of low bitrate material, Ogg is the way to go.

For speech, use Speex (3, Informative)

Compact Dick (518888) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369950)


If you're using Ogg Vorbis for recording lectures, I suggest you switch to Speex [speex.org] . From the website:

The Speex project aims to build a patent-free, Open Source/Free Software voice codec. Unlike other codecs like MP3 and Ogg Vorbis, Speex is designed to compress voice at bitrates in the 2-45kbps range. Possible applications include VoIP, internet audio streaming, archiving of speech data (e.g. voice mail), and audio books. In some sense, it is meant to be complementary to the Ogg Vorbis codec.

Problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5370068)

As a current 3th yearr post secondery student, I think Speex would be perfect for my recording of lextures. Just one problem: the Speex site does not render correctly in my Opera 7.01 browser. Once the open source comunity starts supportting standards in the web, I will support thier format. I will continuto use Windows Media Audio format for my recordding of lextures.

Re:Low bitrates - vast improvement! (4, Informative)

jmv (93421) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369993)

Actually, if you're interested in compressing voice, try Speex [speex.org] , another Xiph.org codec. At 16 kHz sampling rate, you can get almost transparent quality around 20-24 kbps and still decent quality in the 12 kbps range. (disclaimer: I'm the Speex author)

website doesn't render correctly (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5370131)

hey you bastard, speex.org doesn't render in my browser. it may render fine in the pieces of shit that are based on gechko and mozilla eta alla that you use or richard stallmans forbids internet explorer but it doesn't render in opera. fix this now or suffer my wrath you bastard

Go with the 20GB hard drive. (5, Interesting)

hwsquaredcubed (527387) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369902)

I have my doubts about this unit. In my opinion, the days of the flash-based MP3 (ogg, etc.) players are numbered for one simple reason: they don't hold enough music. Even if it's relatively simple to sync the device with the computer, it's still a pain to have to do that every time you want to listen to new music. I own the 15GB Archos Jukebox Recorder, which I got on sale for $150 (including rebate) a couple of months ago. I was able to put all of the songs I'd downloaded from my desktop and laptop - about 10GB worth of music - on it, and a bunch of my CDs as well. Now I don't have to take a bunch of CDs around with me, as the player can hook up to my home stereo, car stereo (it's a newer stereo that has an MP3 port and I use a cable to connect the player to the port - with the Neuros you could broadcast over the stereo's FM frequency), and also at work (I hook my computer's speakers up to the player). For me, it's a much better option than the flash-based players because I can fit so much more music on it. My only complaint is that there is so much music on it that it is sometimes hard to navigate around the HD to find exactly what you're looking for, especially if you don't take the time to really organize your music by folder, track number, etc., before you upload it to your player. I have heard that the user interface for the iPod solves some of these problems, so I am hoping that Archos comes out with a software fix soon. Anyway, the bottom line is that I would go with the 20GB option here - I guess my only concern about that in this instance is that the 20GB "backpack" looks huge, and might add a lot of weight to the unit and make it bulky. The Archos I have is a little heavier than I would prefer, but really not that bad. I am still able to jog with it, which is key. I carry it in my left arm now and for the first time in years, my left arm is the same size as my right arm. Just kidding.

Don't go with the 20GB drive! Well, sorta... (3, Informative)

raygundan (16760) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369962)

The 128MB Neuros player can be upgraded via a backpack to be exactly the same as the 20GB unit. Total price for the 128MB player and the 20GB backpack is only $430, just $30 more than the 20GB unit. The 20GB version is much larger and heavier, and cannot be "downgraded" to be the same as the 128MB unit. By going with the 128MB unit and a backpack, you can have a small, light, solid-state player for the gym (or whatever) and a 20GB backpack to hold all of your music, too. With the 20GB backpack on, it is *identical* to the 20GB unit. The 128MB piece is not available as a backpack, though.

If you jog with it, this is definitely the route to go. Tiny player for jogging, plug in the backpack for huge capacity.

Re:Don't go with the 20GB drive! Well, sorta... (1)

arkanes (521690) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370136)

If you can easily move songs from the backpack to the flash memory this would be one handy little puppy.

Xiph, Salon, or Madrake? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5369905)

Can't remember, which one am I supposed to donate to? All three?

Maybe I'll buy Xiph a subscription to Salon and kill two birds with one stone.

*ahem* (-1, Troll)

Big Mark (575945) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369907)

In Soviet Russia, Beowulf Cluster imagines ogg playing YOU!

-Mark

Re:*ahem* (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5369946)

Karma To Burn experiments go as planned. Nice to know the mods are as predictable as ever.

Looks like what I've been waiting for (4, Interesting)

teks0r (622346) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369920)

I've been researching various portable MP3 players for some time, meanwhile budgeting some cash that I could use to buy one. I had my mind set on a iPod for a while because the design looked sleek and elegant, stored gigs of music, and reportedly got good life out of its batteries.

My alternative to an iPod would have been the player from Archos, which was AFAIK the second portable music player that stored giga-, not mega- bytes.

Since the investment in one of these players is fairly substantial (300-400 USD), and as of late I have more and more music files in .ogg format, I decided to hold off until something actually played .ogg's.

This is probably the music player that I've been waiting for. A hard drive so I can store thousands of songs (as opposed to whatever I can squeeze into 32 or 64 megs), and some 'smart' features such as recording and being able to broadcast to a radio.

I'm sure there are other people out there like me that have been waiting for this kind of player to come along, so I for one am ready to plunck down the cash and buy one, and show the industry that .ogg is a viable format. Hopefully more players will come along.

I wish Neuros the best of luck with their new product, and of course, kudos go out to the Xiph.org team for all of their hard work.

-Jason Jones

Re:Looks like what I've been waiting for (2, Interesting)

be-fan (61476) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370173)

The OGG bit might be a kicker, but if you can afford to re-rip, GET AN IPOD. The 20GB model is supposed to be priced-dropped to $400 this week. You'll appreciate the big (small) difference in size.

One of the benedits of ogg... (4, Informative)

WPIDalamar (122110) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369923)

There's one benefit of Ogg that many people miss... compaines can use it in their products, whithout paying a royalty, and without worrying about the libraries changing (since they can distribute the libraries). For applications other than music players (such as games) that play sound, it's perfect. Who wants to use a system supplied mp3 library that may or may not work with your application 5 revisions down the road?

Re:One of the benedits of ogg... (2, Interesting)

GeckoX (259575) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370040)

If I'm not mistaken (99% sure I'm not), UT2003 uses ogg for all of it's music.

Not the only game I've seen using ogg either!

Re:One of the benedits of ogg... (1)

qoncept (599709) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370156)

Who wants to use a system supplied mp3 library that may or may not work with your application 5 revisions down the road?

I don't understand what you're talking about. Can you explain? I have mp3s that I downloaded 6 years ago that work in Winplay3 and Winamp 3.

Almost Perfect (2, Insightful)

entrigant (233266) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369929)

If it had usb2, firewire 800, and bluetooth support this thing would be damn near perfect. The ability to transmit music via FM radio is already hella neat. I like this thing.. although it is a wee bit expensive :(.

Off-topic: Linux support for Panasonic D-snap? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5369934)

Hi, this is off-topic but I was just wondering about Linux support for the Panasonic D-snap. I bought one of these puppies:

http://panasonic.jp/dvc/DIGICAM/av30/

(Fucking lee7 really small device which takes MPEG4 video, snapshots, and acts as an MP3 player).

The salesdroid told me I needed to buy the software option for creating MP3's in some format called "S-Jukebox" (?? something S...jukebox, anyway) but I call bullshit. SURELY I should be able to take my collection of (legal, so fuck you RIAA apologists) mp3's and USB the fuckers over to the thing?

Any advice appreciated, thanks!

But wait.. (1)

termos (634980) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369944)

But does it play MP3s as well? .. oh, wait.

cool (0)

simontek2 (523795) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369952)

schweet

Nex IIe player (2, Interesting)

nicedream (4923) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369953)

There have been several rumors lately that the Nex IIe [frontierlabs.com] from Frontier Labs will support Oggs RealSoonNow (tm).

Link to yahoo group thread [yahoo.com] .

Nex II player (5, Informative)

N8w8 (557943) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369966)

FYI, Frontier Labs expects to have ogg support ready for their Nex II [frontierlabs.com] player in Q2 2003.

Nice but... (3, Insightful)

arvindn (542080) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369967)

This is a Good Thing for sure, but keep in mind that the important thing is to help the average Joe see the benefits of Ogg. Sending your mom the CD you ripped in ogg format is way more useful than preaching benefits of ogg on slashdot.

Neat and Nifty (1)

hrieke (126185) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369973)

But why can't people hire Apple's design firm or at least be 'enspired' by the iPod?

And, while we're tossing out wish lists, more file formats to play, can't someone make the damn thing play everything under the sun? Why not use an engine design that allow for plug-ins, ala WinAmp?

Re:Neat and Nifty (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5370004)

But why can't people hire Apple's design firm or at least be 'enspired' by the iPod?

Because that usually results in a letter from Apple's lawyers.

Re:Neat and Nifty (0, Troll)

be-fan (61476) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370186)

It wouldn't matter. Only Apple can get the 1.8" drives at the moment, so everything else will be bigger. The iPod just slides under the "too big to pocket" limit. Even something just slightly larger (the Nomad Zen, for example) is too big.

FLAC? (1)

moncyb (456490) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369978)

On one of the Neuros surveys, it asked which new format you prefer they add support, and FLAC was one of them. I thought FLAC was a lossless format so one could record and edit sound files, not for listening? Do audiophiles really notice the difference between a high quality ogg/mp3 and FLAC? I don't notice any distortions with a high quality ogg vs the original. Is the FLAC file smaller? Logically and from what I've seen, the FLAC file should be bigger. It is lossless after all...

Re:FLAC? (4, Insightful)

0x0d0a (568518) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370023)

I thought FLAC was a lossless format so one could record and edit sound files, not for listening

Yup. You can certainly listen to it though.

Do audiophiles really notice the difference between a high quality ogg/mp3 and FLAC?

Not with a portable player and earbuds, they don't.

Is the FLAC file smaller?

No. It's much larger. At the bitrates I usually feel comfortable with, FLAC tends to be over five times as large as ogg. FLAC on this player would be more a gimmick than a useful feature.

Re:FLAC? (4, Interesting)

Junta (36770) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370071)

FLAC is indeed lossless, and is also indeed large. Yes, audiophiles do insist that all lossy compression is unbearable. Even if they couldn't tell the difference, they would still make the claims I'm sure. Else how could they call themselves audiophiles?

As for myself, I think Vorbis acheives the best quality to size ratio. If there are artifiacts, they aren't as irritating as mp3 artifiacts, since I notice mp3 artifacts and don't Vorbis (until you get past 128 kbps, at which point I can't tell anything about an mp3. For listening on mediocre at best headphones in public with noise around me, I would say a 64 kbps vorbis would be good enough, not so about mp3.

There is already a Zaurus media player plugin (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5369981)

I have built the plugin for the Qtopia media player on the Sharp Zaurus SL5500 myself a few weeks ago. You can also find someone else's build as an IPKG on http://www.killefiz.de/.
And the Zaurus could accomodate a CF harddisk (1gig)... I'm not saying that it would run off the battery for long tho.
Also, I heard that the integer only decoder (Tremor) used less power than the built-in MP3 one, so battery life as affected by that is supposed to be longer (10 percent I read someplace).

Re:There is already a Zaurus media player plugin (1)

5etanta (584344) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370049)

I've played with this, but you are quite correct, it works well but kills the battery in no time flat! It also takes a long time to load up and play the file. Final verdict, cool but not yet useful. Brian P Casey

Bah, this isn't that big of a deal... (1, Informative)

ActiveSX (301342) | more than 11 years ago | (#5369987)

Now Xiph.org merchandise [cafeshops.com] , however, is something I've been waiting a long time for. Go buy some, kids. The Xiph dudes get some cash out of it, and you get to pimp your fly audio compression.

I want to upgrade, not go sideways (4, Insightful)

yelims (160240) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370010)

I love my Rio SP250. I have a fairly large CD collection, and I love being able to just switch CD's and have a different portion of my collection.

But my question is, why would I want to make a lateral move to something that plays .ogg files off of CD (vs. my RIO which plays mp3 off of CD)?

What I would really like to see is a DVD +/- R solution. Then I could have 4.7GB vs. 700MB of music ready to go.

Am I just dreaming, or is there a market for this besides me?

Ogg Vorbis is Pure Shit (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5370012)

It's true. Ogg (or OGG or OgG or oGG) is complete shit. No one should waste their time with this format (except perhaps when using cheat portable music players with crappy headphones and loud background noises). Any other way it would be very easy to spot the terrible sound of the format at even high bitrates (360+) (like indoors and through a good stereo).

The read deal of audio formats is MPC. Although you may not have heard of it, it is the best format for great sounding audio. And unlike Ogg, MPC has no patents. You may have heard Ogg is free from patents, but this is just not true. It is simply AOL spread FUD. AOL directly holds a great number of patents on Ogg Vorbis and they have secretly embedding DRM (Digital Rights Management) software into Ogg. It is now possible to track users of the Ogg format and in the future these users may be charged for infringing copywrites. Would you want to be charged by some souless company just for exercising your god given rights? I would rather go to hell.

So the next time you download an Ogg formatted music file, watch out. When borrowing a mixed CD from a friend encodded in Ogg Vorbis, watch out. Because someone is surely watching you.

Yuck (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5370030)

Big, ugly, and no firewire. I'll stick with ipod thank you.

Supported by manufacturer... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5370037)

but what about us in Johannesburg, who don't have CompUSA accross street?

Obligatory (-1, Redundant)

guacamolefoo (577448) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370055)

...but will it play MP3?

GF.

moron having soul DOWt, after having broken (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5370056)

va lairIE's pateNTdead PostBlock(tm) device.

STRING OF SCANDALS

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"Ahold's accounting irregularities revive unpleasant memories. This is the main driver of the share price today as an investor just cannot trust the company's figures," said John Hatherly, head of global analysis at M&G Asset Management.

The failure of U.S. oil giant Enron Corp (Other OTC:ENRNQ.PK - News) was just the first of a string of accounting scandals that brought the likes of telecoms group WorldCom (Other OTC:WCOEQ.PK - News) and Xerox (NYSE:XRX - News) to the brink of failure or beyond.

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Ahold's U.S. foodservice is the second-largest food distributor to restaurants, hotels, healthcare institutions and sports facilities in the United States after Sysco Corp (NYSE:SYY - News).

accouNTing we will goo...

Reverse Engineer Firmware (1)

zachjb (221132) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370099)

I was wondering how hard it would be to reverse engineer some firmware for the CD MP3 players. I use a Riovolt SP-100. Now Rio hasn't updated their firmware in forever, but you can use their Korean cousin's firmware (iRiver).

Would this be possible and feasible? Or should we just wait until the company does it themselves?

Can anyone say ... (2, Informative)

mrfiddlehead (129279) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370153)

Zaurus? Sharp's zaurus has supported several ogg players for ages. And it's more than just a digital music recorder/player. I've been drooling over the damn thing for months, but cannot bring myself to spend the $800CAN for one of these things yet. Perhaps next week when I go consultant full time and can write off the PDA as a business expense.

only usb1.1 (5, Insightful)

alanak (451478) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370155)

I was thinking - this is pretty cool. Then I saw it connects to your computer via usb 1.1. Who in their right mind would develop a new product with a 20GB harddrive and stick a measly USB 1.1 connection on it? There's no way that's going to work without frustrating every user

finally (2, Informative)

doodzed (35795) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370164)

It is great that they added in an fm transmitter, but this may be the mp3 player for me for another reason. They added in mp3 recording with a line in. That means I can go, but a couple good mikes and record every show I go to. Hopefully the quality will be great.

Connections (4, Interesting)

HalfFlat (121672) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370178)

This device looks really nice: switchable piggyback storage, FM transmittery thing, not too heavy, not too bulky, 20Gb, etc. etc. Of course ogg support is a big plus too. It could be the iPod competition we've all been waiting for! But ...

USB 1.1?! What were they thinking? How could they get so close and still drop the bundle?! Transfering a CD's worth of music onto the device would take well over a minute at any decent quality. Transferring a collection onto the drive would take hours. If there were no alternatives, then sure, it's certainly not too bad. But with a disk attached to the device, there's no good reason why transfers couldn't be ten times as fast, if only they used USB2 or firewire.

As a portable harddrive, USB1.1 speeds are apalling.

Would putting firewire or USB2 on really have been so hard? As it stands, the player seems to be in the 'so close but' category.

Other ogg hardware (3, Informative)

RiffRafff (234408) | more than 11 years ago | (#5370185)

According to this site: http://www.mixstix.com/ they already have ogg playback.
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