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Intel To Redesign PC With "Grantsdale" Chip

CowboyNeal posted more than 11 years ago | from the a-whole-new-bus-is-coming dept.

Intel 309

MarkRH writes "Over at ExtremeTech, we tracked down some Intel roadmaps that discuss "Grantsdale", Intel's most important chipset in nearly a decade. Grantsdale brings PCI Express to the PC, so get ready to toss out your motherboard, AGP graphics card, and maybe a host of other components, too. Also check out our articles on the "Tejas" microprocessor, Intel's first CPU to forego pins (check out the waffle iron socket!), as well as the real reason Banias saves so much power."

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309 comments

Not necessary (1, Funny)

(1337) God (653941) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403814)

We've all switched to Macs!

Re:Not necessary (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403882)

Microsoft is doing a great job boosting the Macintosh. There is no way I will install software with product activation, so when win2k gets too obsolete, I'll have to switch to a mac. Linux still isn't an option on the desktop, I used it for 2 years and switched back to windows. I want to use my computer, not spend half a day configuring for any change.

Re:Not necessary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403953)

Extremely well said.

Re:Not necessary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5404045)

Parent poster is a known moron. Please mod down. Don't believe me? Check out his journal. Or watch how fast his freaks list is growing. He's setting a new record.

Re:Not necessary (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5404153)

With Intel and AMD delivering faster and more powerful processors at a rate which makes your head swim, the consequences are plain as day. Apple is hurting, its spindly financial footing sinking ever deeper into that fiscal bog of no return. Frankly, many prominent industry analysts have crunched the numbers, concluding that Apple's outlook is bleak indeed.

In Apple's latest numbers released in January for its fiscal first quarter of 2003, revenue fell from a year earlier and all of the company's major computer lines saw diminished numbers. PowerMac sales were down 20%, while iBook sales fell 8%.

At the same time Apple's sales were falling, PC sales rose, though just slightly, according to figures from IDC released last month.

The last time Apple was in this state, it brought back co-founder Steve Jobs to fix its issues. He fostered the development of the iMac and secured a US$150-million investment from Microsoft. But there aren't any new iMacs in Apple's future and Microsoft, bolstered by its victory over the U.S. Department of Justice, is clearly not going to help the beleaguered computer maker this time.

So what have you got left? Apple is a company that controls around 3% of the computer market, has recently undergone a restructuring and is slowly fading into nothingness. Software makers don't even have Mac users on their radar and it's not like Apple can bring Mr. Jobs back to right the ship this time -- he's already there.

Stick a fork in 'em -- this Apple is cooked.

real niggas do real things (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403818)

shout outs to the whole ave ..

Following PCI Express... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403821)

Will be the new improved AGP Express!

I hope APPLE uses this chip! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403824)

...so their Macintoshes have a fighting chance of being faster than Windows machines. They're about 1/2 the speed now. It's sad.

Re:I hope APPLE uses this chip! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403841)

I agree. Apple needs to do SOMETHING to get back on track. Being an early adopter for a new Intel chip would be a step in the right direction.

Re:I hope APPLE uses this chip! (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403854)

yeah! grantsdale is a chipset for controlling pci, ram access etc.

wow! let's add this into an apple! then what will we have.

uhhh. G4s at the same speed, using a different chipset.

Did you RTFA?

Re:I hope APPLE uses this chip! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5404131)

As long as Steve Jobs is at the helm of Apple, the situation is hopeless. He is a control freak whose main goal in life is keeping the Mac pickaninnies confined to his plantation, interoperability and industry standards be damned.

What about Hypertransport? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403829)

Anyone for Hypertransport?

Re:What about Hypertransport? (2, Informative)

Clay Pigeon -TPF-VS- (624050) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404189)

I am. The HT consortium needs to get its act together to offer some viable competition to PCI express in terms of cards and peripherals. HT is free to use while mobo and card makers will have to pay liscencing fees for pci express, driving up component prices and possibly adding to tech market stagnation (assuming the tech market doesnt turn around by h2 04, god forbid).

in case it is slashiziled (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403838)

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Intel To Redesign PC With "Grantsdale" Chip

Posted by CowboyNeal on Friday February 28, @12:33AM
from the a-whole-new-bus-is-coming dept.
MarkRH writes "Over at ExtremeTech, we tracked down some Intel roadmaps that discuss "Grantsdale", Intel's most important chipset in
nearly a decade. Grantsdale brings PCI Express to the PC, so get ready to toss out your motherboard, AGP graphics card, and maybe a host of other
components, too. Also check out our articles on the "Tejas" microprocessor, Intel's first CPU to forego pins (check out the waffle iron socket!), as well as the
real reason Banias saves so much power."

PCI Express effect on graphics cards (4, Interesting)

writertype (541679) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403844)

It's going to be really interesting, I think, to see what this does for the holiday selling season. Since it's out there now that Grantsdale is going to have such a dramatic effect on PC architecture, what is this going to do for sales of graphics cards? Of sound cards?

It looks like PCI will be supported in some way, but it's almost up to a motherboard manufacturer to come forward and say, "OK, we're only going to support one PCI slot, so figure out what you want to keep, now."

My guess is that Nvidia's NV35 will be released later this year (fall?) on AGP8X, but that it will REALLY run well on PCI Express. So--wait, or buy? An old question, but with far more significance.

Re:PCI Express effect on graphics cards (4, Insightful)

Max Romantschuk (132276) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403892)

It's going to be really interesting, I think, to see what this does for the holiday selling season. Since it's out there now that Grantsdale is going to have such a dramatic effect on PC architecture, what is this going to do for sales of graphics cards? Of sound cards?

I doubt this holiday season will be any big break for PCI Express. Remember when PCI was introduced? Roughly around the time of the first Pentiums. You can still buy motherboards with ISA slots...

It looks like PCI will be supported in some way, but it's almost up to a motherboard manufacturer to come forward and say, "OK, we're only going to support one PCI slot, so figure out what you want to keep, now."

The same applies here, the transition won't happen over night. There is lots of stuff which runs just fine on the bandwidth that PCI has to offer. You will have to decide what to keep, but I'd say that years from now.

Re:PCI Express effect on graphics cards (5, Interesting)

buffer-overflowed (588867) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404012)

And sometimes you need an ISA slot. It's rare, but recently I've had occassion to really, really need one (in fact several...).

Sure they're slow, ancient, legacy (appologize for the redundancy there) but sometimes you just really need an older piece of hardware or a board you can solder and design yourself without an EE degree.

The same will be true of PCI. There are more PCI cards out there than ISA, so PCI-Express should really be backwards compatible, capable of both modes. Or at least have a few slots on it that are mutual, then faze it out over a few years.

Why don't major vendors get the fact that some of us like our legacy stuff and don't want to move just because we "have" to?

Re:PCI Express effect on graphics cards (2, Insightful)

Zork the Almighty (599344) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404070)

Why don't major vendors get the fact that some of us like our legacy stuff and don't want to move just because we "have" to?

Oh I'm sure they do, it's just they make more money this way.

Re:But how many PCI slots will there be? (3, Interesting)

writertype (541679) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404078)

That's the question. If you read the article, there's going to be four PCI Express x1 slots.

OK...so does that mean those are going to take the place of the PCI slots that will normally be found within a motherboard? PCI will be supported--but how many slots will we have to work with?

PCI slots (1, Interesting)

DrMrLordX (559371) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403911)

On a side note, if they do design Grantsdale well, who cares about your legacy PCI slot? Stuff like sound cards, NICs, modems, etc should all be integrated with the motherboard ala nForce 2. Or, at least, the option for such a configuration should exist. I, for one, know that the only PCI card I have right now that I actually use is a horribly dated Ensoniq AudioPCI. Integrated sound solutions, even now, kick its ass. Oh, wait, and my modem. wheee. 56k powah

Anyway, old PCI stuff should be easily replaced by integrated components on the motherboard. One available legacy PCI slot would likely accomodate the rare exceptions.

Support your slashdot trolls! View at -1, and mod up all troll, offtopic, and flamebait posts. Thank you.

Re:PCI Express effect on graphics cards (2, Interesting)

naktekh (517517) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403926)

Nvidia's been releasing the NV30 cards (Geforce Ti4200 and MX series) as AGP8x modules.

The problem is that the bandwidth that is offered by the AGP bus tends to be a PCI-AGP bridge, rather than a true AGP graphics card, so what you essentially have is a PCI card running at a slightly faster dedicated bus speed.

If PCI Express can truly deliver, I'll be impressed... but Intel's known for making decisions that are not necessarily widely implemented in the long run (remember Rambus?). I'm taking a wait and see approach with this one.

ATI is currently Intel's only validation partner (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5404019)

Don't expect any PCI Express cards from Nvidia this year.

Who cares? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5404175)

First of all PCI-express will come in second half of the NEXT year.

Second, PCI-Express x 16 just double AGP8X bandwidth. We can expect same "dramatic" (1-2%) performance increase as we saw with AGP8X and AGP4X. It will take many years until this kind of performance is really needed. Since high-end video cards will have 512MB of very fast (~40GB/s) local memory in H2-2004, 4GB/s bandwidth offered by PCI-Express won't make much difference compared to 2GB/s AGP solution.

PCI-Express add-on cards won't be popular anytime soon. Since:
1) PCI replacement (PCI-Express x 1) offers just 250MB/s of bandwidth, thats isn't a lot more than current 133MB/s offered by PCI.

2) >90% of users won't need any external cards in H2-2004. Currently we have following stuff integrated on the chipset/motherboard:
-two 100Mbps NICs
-Sound with better quality than original Audigy
-Firewire/USB2 etc

In 2004 we will also have:
- NICs will be updated to 1Gbps
- Wireless LAN
- DSL modem

3) In the server market PCI-Express won't be popular since it isn't compatible with PCI. Currently servers use PCI-X (1GB/s) and it will be replaced with PCI-X 2.0 (2GB/s). This is enough bandwidth for many SCSI-raids and Gigabit NICs.

Big deal (4, Insightful)

Jason1729 (561790) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403848)

so get ready to toss out your motherboard

Since when can you upgrade to a new generation CPU and not have to replace the motherboard?

Jason
ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]

Re:Big deal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5404000)

Bah! You kids these days have it easy. Back in my day, if we wanted new components, we had to wire vacuum tubes together by hand... AND WE LIKED IT!

Re:Big deal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5404013)

Since AMD chose socket A, d00d.

Re:Big deal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5404181)

You could put a P266 in your socket 5 mb when you upgraded from a P100?

Has anyone upgraded from Athlon to Athlon XP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5404188)

Yeah, except most of the time you still end up needing a new board for new voltage requirements or whatnot. Has anyone actually upgraded from, say, an Athlon to an Athlon XP without getting a new board?

Re:Big deal (2, Insightful)

kfg (145172) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404111)

I have to toss out the motherboard pretty much every time I buy a cpu, which makes the "quick change" feature of this unit rather moot.

If they're going to hold the basic architecture steady for at least a few years this is going to be quite handy, but if each iteration is going to require a general upgrade to properly utilize the new speed and features anyway. . .big deal.

The motherboard manufacturers like to see a steady upgrade cycle too you know and it almost always comes down to "gut the case" and hope a few cards are still usable.

KFG

Re:Big deal (1)

buffer-overflowed (588867) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404123)

Excellent point, but since when do you have to upgrade everything at once?

I mean come on, I can't think of a processor upgrade yet that forced me to actually replace an entire system (graphics card, peripherals, etc.). This system is more like buying a PS3 over a PS1 than your typical computer upgrade. I'll swap a mainboard out, no problem.

Surely you can admit that?

Re:Big deal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5404176)

I recently went from a K6-2 to an XP. I had to replace the CPU/MB/Memory practically as a single unit. Now I'm left with a xpert@play video card that, a 36 gig HD, 4x CD-RW...it really brings down the system.

This means.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403859)

>so get ready to toss out your motherboard, AGP graphics card, and maybe a host of other components, too

And PC also?

Slide rule rules! ;-)

Re:This means.. (0, Offtopic)

kfg (145172) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403995)

Got two lovely aluminum Pickett's right here. One full size in a leather holster, and one pocket sized. . .in a leather holster. Now *that's* geek chic.

Someone wandered off with my K&E bamboo rule though. The bastard.

The batteries never wear out. You can use them by candlight in a power outage. You can fully douse them with water. They even keep working when your space capsule blows a gasket and you to figure out how to get home with the air you've got left.

Plus they keep on your toes with regards to the concept of of significant digits.

Quake runs a bit slow though.

KFG

Why NewCard? (4, Interesting)

KiahZero (610862) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403861)

I don't understand why revamped PC-cards are being pushed for desktop computing. I can understand increasing the bus speed on PCI cards (faster real-time TV encoding... yay!), but why does this need to happen in cards the size of two quarters?

Is the goal to make it so that users with two PCs can carry peripherals from one computer to the other? I would also hope that there will be legacy ports. I'm not planning on buying a new chip for a while, but I really don't feel like having to buy brand new hardware when I do. I'll have to buy a new video card (no AGP port), but they could at least put a few standard PCI ports on the mobo so I could slap in my more expensive expansion cards.

Re:Why NewCard? (1)

bellings (137948) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403879)

but they could at least put a few standard PCI ports on the mobo so I could slap in my more expensive expansion cards.

If you have expensive expansion cards, you'll be able to find PCI motherboards for a long, long, long time.

Unless, of course, you think that a $150 sound card is "expensive." Then, you're fucked.

Re:Why NewCard?-New case designs? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5404186)

Actually I would like to see what all this new technology does for case design. Our cases are the same boring boxes because of the fact that the internals are also big and bulky, or just plain awkward. Snazzy comes to the PC.

Re:Why NewCard? (4, Informative)

Apple Acolyte (517892) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403952)

KiahZero opined: I don't understand why revamped PC-cards are being pushed for desktop computing.

The parent makes it seem as if PCI Express only defines the standard for new generation PC Cards. It doesn't simply do that; otherwise it would be nearly worthless as the next generation successor to PCI. Take a look at relevant quotes from the PCI-SIG [pcisig.com]:

The "Mini PCI Express Electromechanical specification, an alternate for the existing Mini PCI form factor specification, is being completed for membership review and is expected to be finalized for publication in the first quarter of 2003."

"IBM is excited about the PCI Express architecture because of its compatibility with the past and its high-bandwidth options for the future," said Peter Hortensius, Vice President of Development, IBM Personal Computing Division. "IBM embraces open industry standards and provides innovation on top of them, and PCI Express presents outstanding opportunities for solving real customer problems."

Mini-PCI Express, then, is a spec in its infancy that is designed to replace the previous generation PC Card. It should make future laptops far more expandable, which is a great thing. And PCI Express is one of multiple candidates for desktop expansion. Yet, it seems that PCI Express is going to be backward compatible with important specs, and that it seemingly has industry support. I just wanted to make sure everyone understands the PCI card isn't going to be replaced by the PC Card.

Re:Why NewCard? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5404134)

I did not know that, thank you for informing me.

"Grantsdale"? Jesus H. Christ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403862)

If chips company would stop spending half of their research budgets on stupidly grandiose names, maybe we'd be getting somewhere.

Re:"Grantsdale"? Jesus H. Christ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403866)

I would call my new CPU "Barry"

the chipset, I believe I would call "Rhonda"

Re:"Grantsdale"? Jesus H. Christ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403904)

I believe Intel uses the names of nearby Rivers and Lakes for all their product code names, though they may have different naming schemes for different products. Also, AMD has their own system for naming new products; witness Barton, Thunderbird, etc

I think they should just stick with the product namese, that would be way cool. Of course, that would get confusing pretty quickly. Is this processor a Klamath, or a Coppermine? Is this chipset a Granite Bay, or a Springdale?

Re:"Grantsdale"? Jesus H. Christ (1)

JebusIsLord (566856) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404054)

I personally like Redhat's naming scheme, where each name has something to do with the one before and after it... shoot i can't find the link explaining the connections.. anyone?

hmmm (1)

jms258 (569015) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403873)

i'll be very interested to see amd's answer to this.

Re:hmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403967)

And I'll be very interested to see you SHUT THE HELL UP

Re:hmmm (2, Insightful)

cheezedawg (413482) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403985)

Um, considering PCI Express is an industry standard [pcisig.com], it probably will be a chipset with PCI Express. Of course AMD has already developed Hypertransport to use in some places where PCI Express would fit also.

Re:hmmm (2, Funny)

kwashiorkor (105138) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404007)

Well, their answer to Grantsdale's "whopping" 4GB of memory will be: "uh... your penis is so tiny".

* small that? that's my karma going up in flames *

Mmmm Chip Waffles (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403877)

Arghahghaghaaa

In Soviet Intel (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403917)

Waffle [vomit.com] chips you!

Most Important? (0, Troll)

silvakow (91320) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403878)

Intel's most important chipset in nearly a decade

Of course, because this will be the first chipset to fail in the marketplace because computers are already fast enough for businesses, and gamers already have overkill. The first market failure is always an important landmark.

Re:Most Important? (3, Interesting)

josh crawley (537561) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404174)

>>Intel's most important chipset in nearly a decade

>Of course, because this will be the first chipset to fail in the marketplace
>because computers are already fast enough for businesses, and gamers already have
>overkill. The first market failure is always an important landmark.

If anything, I'd like to see an addon vector processor for high speed math. G4
motherboards have them under an Altivec core instruction set. I would also want
the ability to directly program (in chip asm) to do misc functions.

Personally, they can take this waffle-chip and shove it. If anything, I'd want
an architechure where EVERYTHING's on a very high speed, very high bandwidth
quad-plane bus with basic controllable logic. You put drive cards on it,gfx
cards, sound cards, network cards, memory on it, cpu's on it.. anything. It
would be the backbone of the system where anything would go. You could build a
simple scan/bootstrap code to find what devices do what. It could be a simple
hex line of simple "whatis information". To those who say this isnt possible, I
believe the Altair 8800 used this similar architechure. You want a
"beowulf"system, add 1 drive controller, and rest cpu controllers. BAM! You now
have insta-BeoBox. You could also add DIFFERENT CPU architechures with this
system, given they coincide to your bus setup (including the altivec and x86like
one I want).

Banias is the real deal... (2, Interesting)

craenor (623901) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403883)

If you are thinking about making a Portable PC Purchase and are looking for either a performance or "road warrior" system...just wait a bit.

The ones I've been playing with at work just absolutely rock. You can clearly see the difference that 1mb L2 cache makes...and combined with systems that already have decent battery life you won't have to worry about whether or not you'll be able to finish the Braveheart DVD on battery power.

Craenor

Braveheart? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403901)

Aye, Laddy.
Me finds that ye olde porne plays better too.
Thank ye, Intel!

Linux (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403886)

Just got this off the linux-kernel mailing list, apparently Linux will be able to support the new architecture somewhere around 2038.

Re:Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403896)

hehe yeh and that >> support new architecture in 2034 >> might be the same timewhen apple crack the ghz!!

Intel's first CPU to forego pins... (5, Informative)

tommy (12973) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403888)

I beg to differ. My 10MHz Intel 286 had no pins. It looked like this [tcocd.de].

Re:Intel's first CPU to forego pins... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403942)

That is a seriously impressive looking chip!

Re:Intel's first CPU to forego pins... (1)

shepd (155729) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404068)

Those chips were manufactured by AMD, though. So technically, intel design, but AMD chip...

I used to keep one in my wallet for good luck. :-)

Forced Obsolecense? (2, Insightful)

Low2000 (606536) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403898)

I'm all for improving hardware but... Why would this be done other then to foce people to buy new hardware? Is the current PCI spec so bad?

I just see this happening.

Hey. So you want a new sound card? Great! What? You only have regular PCI? I'm sorry we only have it in PCI Express. No worries. We offer this brand new Intel board and chip and ram that will solve your problem. Only $1,200!

What am I missing? I hope I'm missing somthing =/

Re:Forced Obsolecense? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403905)

So, what's your point?

Or are you not American? This happens in every other industry, why be shocked when it happens here.

Re:Forced Obsolecense? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403928)

Basically, there is no need for more speed from systems, I agree with your point there. I suspect this is a case of moving forwards for the sake of moving forwards. There are very few REAL applications that require anywhere near 3Ghz. Currently, even top line servers are rarely over the 1.xGhz mark, going in favour of more CPUs, something that can be done more easily and less wastefully with current chipsets. Compatibility is also kept.

Honestly, a PC with eight $20 CPUs would end up far more responsive and just as useful for every task than one with one single several-hundred-dollar chip

Re:Forced Obsolecense? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403966)

Maybe if all you do is troll around websites you can manage with a Pentium and Netscape 3, people who do real work always need something better.

Re:Forced Obsolecense? (1)

kfg (145172) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404158)

Exactly. That's why I retired the 4mhz 8088 Compaq transportable that handled the core functions of my business a couple years ago.

Well, no, actually, now that I think of it I retired it because I couldn't find spare parts. It still did "real work" just fine.

Go figure.

Not that I don't like the box I replaced it with. That one runs *games* much better.

KFG

More CPU's dont mean faster (3, Interesting)

MatthewNewberg (519685) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404146)

One Fast CPU is always going to have an advantage over multiple slower CPUs. It takes a lot of bookkeeping in the background to assign different tasks to different CPUs. Not to mention programs need to be written multi-threaded to take advantage of another processor.

transemta crusoe? (4, Informative)

TerraFrost (611855) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403909)

it'll be interesting to see how the "Tejas" processor compares to the Transmeta Crusoe - currently, the least power intensive x86 compatable cpu out there...

also... if you're currious about PCI Express, this link seems to be pretty... informative:
http://www.intel.com/technology/pciexpress/

and is anyone else disappointed that the new "Grantsdale" chipset isn't supporting rambus ram!? i know i am :(

Who cares about RDRAM? (-1)

DrMrLordX (559371) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403946)

Currently, the fastest platforms for bandwidth-hungry P4s use dual-DDR setups, not RDRAM. It's good to see that Intel is aware of the potential of dual DDR and is getting away from RDRAM. Sure, there's the SiS quad-channel RDRAM solution coming as well, but we'll see if it really works all that well. I like SiS, don't get me wrong, but I sincerely hope they keep cranking out the dual-DDR chipsets too. SiS655 r0x0rs.

And who wants to buy RDRAM anyway? Does anyone think supporting Rambus, Inc. is a good idea?

Please support slashdot trolls. Mod down all posts that seem to be coherant. Even this post, if necessary. Thank you.

Re:transemta crusoe? (2, Informative)

istartedi (132515) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404145)

Crusoe is their old chip. I think you want to compare it with Astro, coming out RSN.

Oh Yeah! (3, Funny)

Waffle Iron (339739) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403932)

check out the waffle iron socket!

I'm stoked. I'm going to pull in some serious coin on this deal.

Every socket designer dreams about being chosen to do a major Intel processor. It doesn't get any bigger than this, baby!

GeForce/Quadro FX and ATI R400 obsolete already?. (0, Troll)

mcbridematt (544099) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403933)

If Intel stays on it's current plans, the only markets for the GeForce and Quadro FX as well as the ATI R400 (refreshed 9700) will be the AMD market. But then, if new Intel CPU's can't use them, such cards may only have a limited production run before being taken off until PCI Express versions come out.

Bloody tricks! (4, Insightful)

HoneyBunchesOfGoats (619017) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403935)

From the second page of the article on Banias:
EBL encompasses four features: a non-synchronous vertical refresh control for displays, which will save between 200 and 800 milliwatts; an optimized LCD inverter design, expected to cut an additional 550 mW to 880mW; device performance state monitoring, which will reduce overall power by an additional 900 mW; and a device power profile utility tool, designed to monitor the power of all devices in the system.
So basically, their "über-cool" power-saving processor isn't what's really saving power, but a bunch of other little tricks in the rest of the system. All they did with the processor was take a PIII-M, ramp up the frequency, and slap on a bigger cache.

Not that I hold this against them or anything; if in the end it increases battery life, that's a Good Thing. I just wish they wouldn't hype up their new processor as being so great, when really there isn't much more improvement over the PIII.

Nice (2, Insightful)

pheared (446683) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403939)

<rant>

I can't wait until I have no choice but to buy some hardware that's not compatible with anything I might possibly already own. What's even cooler is that I get to do my part and add my obsoleted hardware to our local dump.

P.S.: It would be nice to get the computing companies to do a bit more in the way of reuse. I don't think it's a good idea to use until there's no more, and then just move on to a new resource.

</rant>

Re:Nice (2, Insightful)

cheezedawg (413482) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404021)

So are you suggesting that the industry should ignore the increasing system bandwidth needs (gigabit ethernet, USB2, 1394, Infiniband, SATA, etc) just so you can use your old hardware for longer?

And your hardware will be compatible for years to come. Legacy interfaces linger for a LOOOONG time.

Re: Nice (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404133)


> What's even cooler is that I get to do my part and add my obsoleted hardware to our local dump.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to digital TV too!

About those macs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403955)

So that means you'll have all of the above around 2020?

PCI Express FAQ (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5403968)

PCI Express FAQ here. [pcisig.com]

Quick summary: Formerly known as 3GIO, Software compatibility. Point-to-point instead of bus. 1 to 32 bits wide @ 2Gbps per bit = 16 GB/sec max (vs. 1-4 GB/sec for regular PCI; this is about AGP16X)

Re:PCI Express FAQ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5404017)

Warning: parent poster is a known Karma Whore. Do not mod up!

Wait, what? (1)

exley (221867) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403973)

"The improved battery life derived from the ability of the Centrino platform to complete the assigned tasks more quickly than the Pentium III-M, Chandrasekher said"

With 1 MB of heat dissipatin' cache (assuming it's on-die) and higher clock speeds, I think things are a little more complicated than "oh, it does things faster." What all have they done to get energy consumption and heat dissipation under control?

Joy of joys (4, Interesting)

buffer-overflowed (588867) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403982)

Even more stuff that as someone who uses computers primarily for work, I don't need.

Sure it looks good, yea, I'm all exited about a "new era of computing," but it breaks backwards compatibility with all of my old stuff and I bet it still can't outperform the mainframe I program on now in terms of raw MIPS.

Why did we ever move to PC's from thin clients in the first place? We have consoles for gaming, windows for PC gaming, and *nix for serious work (try doing something else under say Solaris, and posting to slashdot doesn't count.) now. Why all of the redundancy? Aren't we in an economic downturn? The bus speeds and improvements are nice, don't get me wrong... but in a PC? It removes the PCI bottleneck problem, but I don't see where it removes the HDD bottleneck in terms of raw speed.

All in all i'd say it's a nifty gadget.

When we get holographic/full immersion, give me a call. I'd love to see what my brain can output in raw source without needing to actually type.

--I'm just continuing my tradition of posting drunk, pay me no head. Don't post to slashdot under wine.

Whole new bus? (4, Funny)

bluesoul88 (609555) | more than 11 years ago | (#5403990)

I just hope it ain't the short bus. I hate getting on that friggin' thing, and I don't do well with ramps on a friggin' bus.

Cost implications ? (2, Insightful)

bushboy (112290) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404022)

It would be great to have an idea of the cost implications of the new chipset - the fact that you'll need a new motherboard, CPU and graphics card means this setup isn't going to be for the masses right away.
The price to upgrade could easily reach $1200 US for early adopters.

I don't see much of a problem with the PCI slots as the majority of current modern systems have a lot of components onboard already, such as LAN, Sound, Video etc.
I guess the safe bet is they'll include 2xPCI slots which should be enough for most peoples purposes.

Total incompatibility? (1)

antispamist (653732) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404071)

That new tech. had better be damn fast! Good luck getting ppl to do widespread replacements. I would prefer to see some slow replacements through dual compatibility. Like USB 2.0, they could have just said to hell with it but they were smart. Eh, either way...long as it's fast.

Intel moves forward, Apple falls farther behind (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5404088)

With Intel and AMD delivering faster and more powerful processors at a rate which makes your head swim, the consequences are plain as day. Unable to keep pace, Apple is hurting. Apple's spindly financial footing is sinking ever deeper into that fiscal bog of no return. Frankly, many prominent industry analysts have crunched the numbers, concluding that Apple's outlook is bleak indeed.

In Apple's latest numbers released in January for its fiscal first quarter of 2003, revenue fell from a year earlier and all of the company's major computer lines saw diminished numbers. PowerMac sales were down 20%, while iBook sales fell 8%.

At the same time Apple's sales were falling, PC sales rose, though just slightly, according to figures from IDC released last month.

The last time Apple was in this state, it brought back co-founder Steve Jobs to fix its issues. He fostered the development of the iMac and secured a US$150-million investment from Microsoft. But there aren't any new iMacs in Apple's future and Microsoft, bolstered by its victory over the U.S. Department of Justice, is clearly not going to help the beleaguered computer maker this time.

So what have you got left? Apple is a company that controls around 3% of the computer market, has recently undergone a restructuring and is slowly fading into nothingness. Software makers don't even have Mac users on their radar and it's not like Apple can bring Mr. Jobs back to right the ship this time -- he's already there.

Stick a fork in 'em -- this Apple is cooked.

At First Glance (1)

mestoph (620399) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404094)

This may seem a bad idea for intel to aim for this now. Especially with current market releases of other hardware in formats these technologys do "not support" (Nvidia/ATi gfx cards, 1 gig lan cards and also soundcards). But this news can be taken in two ways. Firstly its actually trying to force us forward to better hardware and not stick with current day limited technologys, which is a damn good thing. Or it can be viewed at trying to hurt AMD. Afterall if it got support from nvidia/ati/cisco/creative/3com etc to provide "futuretech" cards it would certainly force AMD to rethink the Athlon-64 supporting chipsets. As to be honest we need to have some kind of standard. As to cost of upgrading, it wouldn't really bother me. I spend $2000 a year anyhow. But then again i'm AMDcore really and not intel. One last thing to consider is that staying with a 4gig limit on ram, it means they are not intending to go 64bit either, so i wonder whats the point in doing a half job. I personally currently have 1.5gig of ram and i still want more (640k blah).

I just love the idea... (1)

cyril3 (522783) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404095)

that some innocent tries to google tejass by accident and ends up listening to the butthole surfers.

Grantsdale? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5404124)

Feh. Anybody who's seen intel's roadmap (as I have) knows the Grantsdale chip is just a stepping stone.

Personally, I'm waiting for the Higgenbotham chips in early 2005. After that, the Ranmatheau chips. In earlier 2007, expect amazing performance from the Cleodranvier chipset.

2008 brings us the amazing 10-GHz Hefnestranthellhaller chipset, and 2009 unveils Intel's most impressive chip: the Quackenbush.

But the true surprise comes in 2010, when the world experiences the amazing speed of the Gentrecktagazunt.

Truly wonderous times ahead.

When Intel moves ahead, Apple slips farther behind (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5404138)

With Intel and AMD delivering faster and more powerful processors at a rate which makes your head swim, the consequences are plain as day. Apple is hurting, its spindly financial footing sinking ever deeper into that fiscal bog of no return. Frankly, many prominent industry analysts have crunched the numbers, concluding that Apple's outlook is bleak indeed.

In Apple's latest numbers released in January for its fiscal first quarter of 2003, revenue fell from a year earlier and all of the company's major computer lines saw diminished numbers. PowerMac sales were down 20%, while iBook sales fell 8%.

At the same time Apple's sales were falling, PC sales rose, though just slightly, according to figures from IDC released last month.

The last time Apple was in this state, it brought back co-founder Steve Jobs to fix its issues. He fostered the development of the iMac and secured a US$150-million investment from Microsoft. But there aren't any new iMacs in Apple's future and Microsoft, bolstered by its victory over the U.S. Department of Justice, is clearly not going to help the beleaguered computer maker this time.

So what have you got left? Apple is a company that controls around 3% of the computer market, has recently undergone a restructuring and is slowly fading into nothingness. Software makers don't even have Mac users on their radar and it's not like Apple can bring Mr. Jobs back to right the ship this time -- he's already there.

Stick a fork in 'em -- this Apple is cooked.

My God!! (1)

ksemlerK (610016) | more than 11 years ago | (#5404184)

This is almost assanine how fast technolgy is going. My motherboard is a DFI 586ITOX Rev. G, and I have 2 PCI slots (1 being shared), and 6 ISA slots. The only way I even have a modem for my system is because I fished it out of the trash behind a computer store that was throwing out all old equipment. I would like to upgrade, but I need to have at least 2 ISA slots, and modern motherboards do not have any. I find this rather inconvenient. Also, finding a motherboard that supports SDRAM is getting very difficult too. I have been looking for a decent P4 motherboard with 2 ISA slots and 4 SD RAM slots, but I do not think this is going to happen anytime soon. I have 768MB in SDRAM, and I am not about to throw any of it away just because of new "improved" technolgy. Where are all the old PIII and PII boards these days. And the processors? It is like trying to find gold at the dumpster now.

Great, another socket change (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5404207)

Does anyone remember Intels BX-chipset? It was released in 1998 when 400MHz was the fastest CPU. Many motherboards using it work with 1.4GHz CPUs.

With P4-era, Intels attidue has changed completely. Now we have:
Socket 423 - released in Novemeber 2000
Socket 478 - released in August 2001
Socket 755 - will be released in Fall 2004
+ many Intels chipsets released in the last year don't support hyperthreading.

Any Intel motherboard which is available now, will become obsolete in about a year. I hope that AMD Hammers platform will have a longer timespan.
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