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U.S. Army's Future Combat System Will Run Linux

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the projects-always-get-scrapped-and-revised dept.

Linux Business 742

jkastner writes "In 2001 Boeing was chosen to be the lead system integrator for the Army's Future Combat System. The bumper sticker description of this project is 'see first, understand first, act first and finish decisively,' and while Boeing's official FCS site doesn't have a lot of technical details, but you can find some good information at Global Security. To quote their page, "FCS is envisioned as a networked 'system of systems" that will include robotic reconnaissance vehicles and sensors; tactical mobile robots; mobile command, control and communications platforms; networked fires from futuristic ground and air platforms; and advanced three-dimensional targeting systems operating on land and in the air.' The Phase 2 request for proposals just appeared and the estimated price is $26 billion through fiscal year 2009. The fact that the Army is spending billions of dollars on a project isn't anything new, but a little known fact is that the OS for FCS will be Linux (FAQ 4 here.)"

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742 comments

-1 First Post (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416264)

One small step for man... (1)

dethl (626353) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416265)

One giant leap for Linux.

Re:One small step for man... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416373)

One giant leap into nuclear armageddon.

Re:One small step for man... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416420)

One giant picnic for cockroaches

Re:One small step for man... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416454)

Join the Army. Travel the world, meet new interesting people, and then kill them (with the help of new and improved open source GNU/Linux killing technology!).

Re:One small step for man... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416465)

One giant leap for Linux.

Yes, makes for a good slogan Linux kills better than Windows, doesn't it ?

Alright though. Going to get modded down to -99 anyway. Just feeling sad about something good being used for something bad again. It's so human, though.

Still.

Didn't these people see JAG?!?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416469)

Some guy sabotaged and then sold the audio threat aquisition technology to a game company. The DSP algorithm is flawed. Colonel McKenzie solved this. It's all in the episode that aired this season.

my head hurts (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416270)

first still hungover post

fp? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416273)

yes i think so...

the true purpose (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416274)

the true purpose of anticipatory scheduling is revealed

of course (-1, Flamebait)

BarrettAnderson (622397) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416276)

it'll be linux. Linux is best for 2 things: Web Servers, and robots. It's not best for anything else, however. (and this is a pro-linux comment from a Windows XP user)

It is the embedded systems (5, Insightful)

einhverfr (238914) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416325)

If you have ever worked with Platform Builder or Embedded NT (or XP) and compared that to building an embedded system on Linux, you will see that the Microsoft products are targetted at a very narrow market and are not really all that well suited for many things that Linux is in the embedded world.

Windows is currently better than Linux in a few (unfortunatly critical areas), but even that is changing quickly. And in the embedded market, Microsoft's products really are niche products, while it is Linux, DOS, and a few other products that are the best products for most projects.

Of course in general server software, I have to say I *much* prefer Linux. For client programs I use Linux mostly (as well as XP occasionally) but even over the last six months, there have been incredible improvements made in many critical areas. Give it another couple years, and I suspect that Linux will be *the* corporate desktop of choice.

Re:It is the embedded systems (0)

BarrettAnderson (622397) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416333)

yes, i don't know if i made it clear, but "robots" is a very general category covering everything except servers (still linux) and Desktop Computers (Windows)... well, i guess there's probably a few other things that it doesn't cover, but very few.

money saving technique (5, Insightful)

dgp (11045) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416278)

I can rent terminator 2 for a lot less than $26 billion dollars. How about $26 billion for global no-cost healthcare and food? THATs futuristic!

Re:money saving technique (0)

BarrettAnderson (622397) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416288)

YEAH! feed everyone for less than $5 a year! that'll work! and with that extra $500 give treatment for 500,000,000 cases of diabetes!

Re:money saving technique (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416297)

go back to Soviet Russia, you fucking commie!

Re:money saving technique (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416313)

There are six billion people in the world. Hmmm...if you can provide food and healthcare on $4.33, please call me! We couldn't even provide healthcare for everyone in the United States on that ($92.85). And until the entire middle east and the rest of the world starts thinking with western ideas instead of frivolous arguments over land and religion, we will need to spend money on defense.

Re:money saving technique (5, Insightful)

cannon_trodder (264217) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416380)

The US are constantly claiming an attack on their beliefs and way of life. Yeah, it's not a religion but those people in the middle-east are certainly fighting for their beliefs and way of life. And land?? America would not fight to protect their own soil? I hardly think so.

Your argument is "we haven't enough to feed the world so it's ok to blow it on crap". If we invested this sort of money regularly in these countries, they'd feed *themselves*. They *do* have sunshine, soil, water and seed. It's just hard to grow food when your fields have been napalmed.

Re:money saving technique (2, Insightful)

BarrettAnderson (622397) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416421)

ehem... they're gonna LEARN to feed themselves if we invest in them? how does one invest in these countries?

one way, and probably the only way, is to rid them of horrible leaders, like hussein etc... HE is the one with an economy worse than the state of alaska who is spending most of its money on weapons, not us. Sure, the US spends a lot on the military, but why not? Whether the US participates in the causes or not, there WILL be more wars, and it's worth the lives of 300,000,000 people to develop a good military

Re:money saving technique (5, Insightful)

cannon_trodder (264217) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416320)

Because splashing £26 billion dollars on a "super-duper" defence system is easier than sitting down and talking to all the other countries in the world to sort out the real problems.

Re:money saving technique (0)

BarrettAnderson (622397) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416354)

real problems... like giving courses in college on "common sense" and publishing a book called "dividing for dummies"

Re:money saving technique (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416332)

26 billion for global food and healthcare?

ok.

26 billion/6 billion = 4.3-ish

Wow, you can feed people 4.3 meals. After that, what?

Re:money saving technique (5, Insightful)

JonWan (456212) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416339)

How about $26 billion for global no-cost healthcare and food? THATs futuristic!

That works out to about $5 per person... One meal at McDonalds. About the only health care you can do for that is a pack of bandaids.

Re:money saving technique (0)

BarrettAnderson (622397) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416377)

please mod that comment down overrated someone. how does one get free food and healthcare forever for $4? i hate to be the person to make this clear, but food and healthcare cost a LOT more than that.

Re:money saving technique (1)

odyrithm (461343) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416447)

your mouth dont stop does it... fuck-sake the blokes got a point, no matter how stupid it is, if more people thought about the good points than the bad like you, we (as in the world) would'nt be in such a fecking mess like it is now.. its like it is because of igits like you bikering over crap like "oh the math dont work so the idea cant, lets use the money to line our pockets instead" get a life or atleast have some respect for it.

mods: yes I guess this is flamebait, but please just use your points to mod up the good posts.

Re:money saving technique (4, Insightful)

Planesdragon (210349) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416399)

I can rent terminator 2 for a lot less than $26 billion dollars. How about $26 billion for global no-cost healthcare and food? THATs futuristic!

And if we do that, some petty dictator will take the food and keep it from getting to the starving nobodies we're trying to feed.

We'd be better off spending the money on the troops, and then using them to enforce every UN decree that there is. Warlords causing human suffering? US leads the way to stop them. Need to distribute food fairly? US donates military to guard the food and keep it from getting stolen & hoarded.

And, of course, $26 billion is only about $3 for every inhabitant of the planet. I suspect that "global free healthcare" would cost a bit more than that.

Re:money saving technique (4, Insightful)

kfg (145172) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416428)

There is no such thing as no cost health care or food. That's why you think you need that $26 billion to pay for it.

There is *displaced* cost food and health care.

What would make a lot more sense than throwing away this $26 billion, acomplishing little to nothing, would be to devise systems allowing people to provide their own food and health care.

If, however, we merely feed people who live where producing food is inherently impossible, but the population expands exponentially with the food supply, the more we feed them the worse off *they* are.

You can't solve social problems by writing a check.

KFG

Fisrt psot! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416279)

Or not. Whatever!

great (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416280)

great, more spending on the military....even if it does run linux.

Wonderful! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416281)

Will RAS and company demand it be called "GNU/Army" ?

way (1)

odyrithm (461343) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416284)

26 billion
and they say linux costs nothing ;) (just joking mods honest!) on a more serious note.. it cant cost that much to develope a system like what your describing.... really it cant, can it?

Re:way (1)

Mark (ph'x) (619499) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416344)

hehe...

it cant cost that much to develope a system like what your describing

no... i would imagine it costs about $5000 to develop the system... then you have a small overhead of 25 billion dollars for the management :)

Re:way (1)

odyrithm (461343) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416378)

thats what I thought it might have been... that or pocket lining... if theres a difference.. ;)

crazy frenchmen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416286)

FCS C4ISR has selected the Linux OS

And I have selected Iraq COUNTRY.

What the f*** (5, Funny)

Libor Vanek (248963) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416287)

What the fu** is "Kernel panic" and what is he doing with my B-52?

Re:What the f*** (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416309)

Colonel Panic is General Protection Fault's second-in-command. Are you questioning his authority, private?

Re:What the f*** (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416443)

Colonel Panic is General Protection Fault's second-in-command. Are you questioning his authority, private?
That wasn't Private Parts, but Corporal Punishment, who was ordered to do so by Major Malfunction.

Networked fires (1)

einhverfr (238914) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416395)

From the description:
networked fires from futuristic ground and air platforms;

Is that what the "printer on fire" code will be used for ;-)

Re:What the f*** (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416419)

Attention slashdot: f*** = fsck = fuck, fuck, FUCK .

Hell yes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416291)

The open source community will lend their over powering and rapidly progressive hand in the demolishen of our enemies. Booyaa.

Bittersweet news (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416292)

This is good news as it means that GNU/Linux will have another set of *very careful* eyeballs looking through the code. After all, it is now a matter of national security. The driver support for robotics and other real-time systems is also likely to improve dramatically.

On the other hand, I think that more than a few hackers will feel a twinge of sadness when they see footage of some people being blown up. Doesn't exactly make you want to point and say "oh look see, that was my code they used to send the `fire' command to that unit..." Especially if it is one of those not-declared-or-debated sort of wars that we seem to be getting into these days.

Re:Bittersweet news (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416324)

AC whines:
a few hackers will feel a twinge of sadness when they see footage of some people being blown up.
Boo hoo. Cry me a river.

Let's roll !

Re:Bittersweet news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416452)

Are you related to the hijackers? Because a fucking war that seems to say "We control the world, shut up and bow before us." is going to bring you more footage of people being blown up in terrorist attacks against the USA, I bet you.

Re:Bittersweet news (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416343)

so much for IBM's ad campaign of "Peace. Love. Linux."

Know thy enemy? (1)

rmdyer (267137) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416352)

If the enemy can look through your entire source, then they know what your maximum capabilities are, even if it is 100% secure. Is this a good thing?

+2 cents contributed.

Re:Know thy enemy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416374)

They wont actually store the source code on the plane. Just the compiled executables. And those will probably be embedded on microchips.

Re:Know thy enemy? (1)

rmdyer (267137) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416416)

And how does that matter? Open Source is open, meaning it could have been open for months before deployment of binaries. Does the military have to release their code because they are running on a GPL platform?

+2 cents contributed.

Re:Know thy enemy? (2, Informative)

einhverfr (238914) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416423)

Does the military have to release their code because they are running on a GPL platform?


They would have to provide access to the code to people they distribute binaries to. Of course that is probably not the general public.

Re:Know thy enemy? (1)

Libor Vanek (248963) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416414)

What means "+2 cents contributed"? I've read this everywhere but couldn't find out the meaning of it.

Re:Know thy enemy? (1)

dillon_rinker (17944) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416448)

Old saying in the US..."I've put in my two cents worth" means "I've said what I thought" Don't knot what the origin is.

Re:Bittersweet news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416356)

This is good news as it means that GNU/Linux will have another set of *very careful* eyeballs looking through the code. After all, it is now a matter of national security. The driver support for robotics and other real-time systems is also likely to improve dramatically.

Not necessarily, will they release their improvements ?? .. That is the question.

Re:Bittersweet news (2, Insightful)

einhverfr (238914) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416370)

Not necessarily, will they release their improvements ?? .. That is the question.

If they don't want to redo all the work the next time they want to upgrade the kernel, they will. If they don't mind passing over that the auditing task to the Department of Redundency Department, they will not release their changes.

Re:Bittersweet news (2, Insightful)

tshak (173364) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416468)

This is good news as it means that GNU/Linux will have another set of *very careful* eyeballs looking through the code.

Not necessarily. There is nowhere in the GPL that forces you to give away your source to the world - it only forces you to distribute (or make easily available) the source to those that you are selling/giving the binaries. So, unless Boeing plans on giving us their software (ya right!), we won't benefit at all. Rather, all of the donated work is benefiting a profiting corporation without any form of compensation. This is where the GPL fails IMHO.

They'll have to overload (5, Funny)

MrRudeDude (450053) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416294)

the kill command.

FUNNYEST COMMENT EVAR (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416337)

LOLOLOL

Seriously, ROTFLMFAO!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA::breathes::HAHAHA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

this is the funnyest comment I have evar read!!!!!!!

Good - now other services take notice! (2, Insightful)

Hao Wu (652581) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416302)

This is great for the army, but as we consolidate overlap between services, I would like to see all branches adopt similar platforms (Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, National Guard, Reserve Force, CIA, and Secret Service). It would save moneys for the purpose of cross-training and upgrading in the-long-run.

So does this mean . . (1)

Geaty (654469) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416303)

more geeks will enlist in the Army? That leads to some interesting prospects for the future of the Army. "Geek First Class" might become a common rank. Hmm.

IF they used windows.... (1)

Goalie_Ca (584234) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416305)

They would be able to camouflage with the sky and kill everyone in a massive BSOD. There's no way they could stop it either!

Linux wins again . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416308)

As my old friend Lawrence Welk would say, "Wunnerful, wunnerful !"

High fives to all the Linux hackers.

Good. How do you download a windows update (1)

happyhippy (526970) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416326)

...from 30,000ft?

With Linux the pilot can ha>0r straight into the computers.

U.S.'s Future Combat System (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416334)

Bribe, bug, bully and bomb to get its way.

Extra credit:

How many Americans know where Iraq is on a map?
How many Americans have traveled outside of the US?
How many Americans aren't led by their own media?
How many times has the US supported dictatorships and governments with whom we disagree?

Call me a troll if you must, but if so, provide the proof (yet something else the US has failed to do.)

Re:U.S.'s Future Combat System (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416353)

Well to the second one only 15% of the pop have passports.
And to the last, all of them.

Re:U.S.'s Future Combat System (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416369)

I must say that the amount of Americans that have never left their own shores is quite depressing.

The world is a wonderful place. Full of interesting people.

Go and meet them.

Oh, and when you're there, don't moan and whine. Don't complain about how things are worse (different). Go with the flow. Oh, and try and be less obviously American.

Re:U.S.'s Future Combat System (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416398)

An american that doesnt whine?!?!?!?!?!?!
Such a creature does not exist!

Here's some proof: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416406)

Go fuck yourself you European prick

I hope we accidentally 'misfire' a nuke and kill all the fuckin liberal European pricks...everyone knows America is all that counts, and you're fucking jealous =)

England can stay

Re:Here's some proof: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416432)

You fagots are so bent you'd miss and hit the fucking south pole.

Re:Here's some proof: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416471)

England can stay

Well, that's very magnanimous of you ;)

Conribute back? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416345)

Will they give the community back improvements they make?

SON OF A BITCH! (5, Funny)

spoonist (32012) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416348)

TWENTY-NINE BILLION DOLLARS? (That's dollars, right? Not pesos or something?)

Somebody had better tell the Army that Linux is free and they're getting ripped off big time!

Re:SON OF A BITCH! (2, Insightful)

Rolo Tomasi (538414) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416401)

Bleh, always the same. New gigantic futuristic (and super-expensive) program is announced. A bunch of defense companies (with good connections to the gov'ment) works on various projects for a few years, a few people get rich, and then the project is quietly shelved. Star Wars anyone?

Say bye-bye with EMP (3, Insightful)

errittus (13200) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416360)

You know, I just can't help but feel that this not-so-recent shift to electronic warfare (in contrast to "modern" warfare) or heavy usage of electronics would leave an army equipped as such VERY vulnerable to ElectroMagnetic Pulse.

http://www.wsmr.army.mil/paopage/Pages/WU%2312.h tm

As advanced as many armies are in the world the advent of more and more electronic warfare systems, innovation will bring on more portable and potent EMP weapons. There's always a rub.

Re:Say bye-bye with EMP (1)

Libor Vanek (248963) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416379)

Not true - I've done some job with Israeli military RF systems and they were all EMP shielded (and that was 7 years ago!)

Re:Say bye-bye with EMP (1)

errittus (13200) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416418)

Granted, I'm no expert, but there would have to be some degree of fragility with such a complex robotic/networked system like this. Just my un-educated opinion.

Re:Say bye-bye with EMP (4, Informative)

superdan2k (135614) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416451)

You do understand that military hardware is hardened against EMPs, right? You also do understand that while soldiers will be equipped with high-tech combat gear, they'll still be trained to use the basics?

When I went into the Army in 1991, no Army unit had executed a bayonet charge since World War II, but we still learned to fight with them attached to the M-16. There's all sorts of high tech gadgetry that can help you kill the enemy deader than shit...but you still learn to do it with bayonet, bare hands, and rifle with iron-sights before you ever learn to call in MLRS fire or pull down realtime data from a Predator drone...

Pacifists (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416365)

Let's hope the kernel hackers are not pacifists. We could be wasting the U.S. Tax dollars. Does Linus have any comments?

$29,000,000,000 (4, Funny)

spoonist (32012) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416372)

You've got to be kidding. $29 BILLION for this:
#!/bin/sh

rm -rf enemy
And why just Linux? That script is portable to any flavor of Unix!

Re:$29,000,000,000 (1)

Libor Vanek (248963) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416437)

Don't forget - it's ARMY, not garbage collectors ;-) They'll surely use:

#!/bin/sh
killall enemy

Good, if they can (1)

White_Lightning (638657) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416390)

keep the weight down and develop a system that can be used for 24 hrs. before the batteries run dry.

This was tried before and failed because it was too heavy, and the batteries would last only 1/2 hr. During the tests, when the batteries ran down, the soldiers dumped the equipment. Too heavy and useless.

repeated cron job (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416408)

cat landscape | grep 'arab' | fire --with-rocket

(parabol)

They'd better (3, Informative)

arvindn (542080) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416412)

"FCS is envisioned as a networked 'system of systems".

For such a system, linux is the obvious choice IMHO. Here's why: Consider the possibility of a malicious agent (possibly an insider) gaining unauthorized access to some of the systems. Because the whole thing is networked and remotely coordinated, the possibility for damage is immense. In that case, it is absolutely essential to detect the intrusion, track the attacker's footprints and minimize the damage as quickly as possible. And I would say linux wins hands down at this, because of its transparency. The main thing is not cost or ease of use or applications or any of the things that are usually considered, but having the innards of the system open for the administrator to see.

To quote "Hackers"... (1)

TheDarkener (198348) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416415)

"Kernel WHO?"
"It's the system command processor. The BRAIN!"

"..No, I mean in the airplane!"

"...It's the Linux kernel, damn it!"

"...What's that?"

"Somebody get her a $*@!ing manual to read!"

picture (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416439)

I just found a picture [mini-itx.com]...

Linux will take over (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5416449)

I want to eat Linux CDs and poop them out and build my own little Linux pyramid of POO with them and there I can sit inside the pyramid, I, a pseudo-pharoah of poop. YES! I will LOOK at the all the old M$ software I had previously bought and used and they will erupt into flames. The golden tux states will seemingly smile as I wave my buttocks around like a dancing dot to the sound of my musical pipe organ flatulence.

F33R L1NUX!

New Device Drivers (4, Funny)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 11 years ago | (#5416470)

This ought to make for some interesting device drivers and kernel patches.

I can see it now on the Kernel mailing list - a bunch of new developers with .mil addresses submitting kernel patches --

Hey Linus - this one gives improved target acquisition for the Patriot II antimissle. If you want you can come see the live tests in Iraq.

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