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Dell CIO Says "Unix is Dead"

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the too-few-necks-to-choke dept.

Unix 656

An anonymous reader writes "I thought this might spur some good discussion on this board, including jabs at Dell and MS, which I always enjoy reading. Dell's CIO believes that the end of Unix is here, in fact his opening slide in a recent presentation was "Unix is dead." Specifically, he talked about the savings he claims in moving Dell's Oracle databases from Solaris to Red Hat.

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FP!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419283)

FP!!!

First Post! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419292)

First Post!

Dasvedanya! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419402)

In Soviet Russia UNIX kills Dell!

since 1980.... (2, Insightful)

Doug Merritt (3550) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419293)

I've been hearing that "Unix is dead" since 1980. Pundits are idiots.

For those of you who came in late, Unix and its workalikes (Linux etc) have grown in use exponentially since 1980.

Re:since 1980.... (3, Insightful)

wirelessbuzzers (552513) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419345)

For those of you who came in late, Unix and its workalikes (Linux etc) have grown in use exponentially since 1980.

Exactly. The point of the article is that Unix has fallen behind its workalikes, specifically Linux in this case.

And no, *BSD trolls, he did not say that *BSD is dying.

Re:since 1980.... (1)

GrenDel Fuego (2558) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419413)

BSD is Unix. Based off of the original Berkley Unix code.

Re:since 1980.... (5, Interesting)

uk_greg (187765) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419512)

The other issue here is cost.

Some background on Randy Mott, Dell's CIO. Before joining Dell, he was the CIO at Wal*Mart. Both Dell and Wal*Mart are kings of supply chain and operations management, especially cost reduction. This guy is very good at squeezing cost out of corporate IT infrastructures while delivering first rate solutions to his internal corporate customers. Any hyperbole aside, if Randy Mott speaks, he knows what he's talking about, and he knows what he's doing. It may not be right for every organization, but I guarantee it'll be right for Dell.

Re:since 1980.... (2, Informative)

Subcarrier (262294) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419393)

For those of you who came in late, Unix and its workalikes (Linux etc) have grown in use exponentially since 1980.

What you say is true but basically the article is just saying that Linux and the other free Unix lookalikes are eating into the cake of the commercial Unices. I've seen enough Solaris workstations replaced with Linux machines to know that this is happening. The Unix culture is going anywhere, though. Quite the contrary.

Re:since 1980.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419497)

exactly. Unless you're using solaris boxes, you could probably give a rats ass as to whether unix even exists anymore. As far as I can see, Linux (for most purposes) is a better all around choice to use than linux.

Aliens (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419294)

Unix is not dead, it just went home.

Learn to spell, Dude. (5, Funny)

dsb3 (129585) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419295)

Gee ... you think he'd at least be able to SPELL B-S-D.

(it's funny, laugh!).

Re:Learn to spell, Dude. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419463)

Yeah, no shit.

It's as if somebody decided a long time ago that the only real UNIX is commercial UNIX.

Re:Learn to spell, Dude. (1, Funny)

$$$$$exyGal (638164) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419487)

Unix CEO responds:
What do you mean my company is dead? There is no Unix company. I'm not even a CEO. I sell potatoe salad at First and Main. Why are you interviewing me?

Re:Learn to spell, Dude. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419508)

Christ, $$$$$exyGal, you DO comment on every story.

Don't you get tired?

We do.

Re:Learn to spell, Dude. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419513)

Hi. I'm a dirty old man who likes to draw in friends so that I can continue trolling the site. I do so by posting porn in my journal to attract the attention of those I surely believe of lesser intellect than myself, posing as a girl for additional "points" with the crowd. My real user name is ekrout.

--gal (not really, but hey..whatever works for you)

Same old (1)

flsquirrel (115463) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419296)

It's the same old debate. Unix, apple and BSD are all dead. Have been for years....right? Oh wait, nevermind.

You know (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419298)

>b?I've always just wanted to be at the top of the reply list

Move to red hat (0)

luuc (595203) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419300)

He must mean /commercial/ UNIX is dead...

UNIX CIO says DELL IS DEAD (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419301)

FIRST POST!!

could it be??? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419302)

fp for me???
Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic.
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I hope I'm not fired and I don't fail it.

Re:could it be??? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419329)

FUCKING GOING TO RAPE KATHLEEN AND GIVE HER THE DICK SHE DESERVES NOT SOME FLOPPY NOODLE LINUX GAY COCK SLAPPING HER CRAZY FAT FACE HOW DARE YOU FORCE ME TO WAIT TWO MINUTES ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY PRECIOUS SECONDS THAT WOULD HAVE MEANT ME GETTING FIRST POST INSTEAD OF TENTH!!!!!!!!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!!! COCKWHORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I am so fired now.

...film at 11. (-1, Offtopic)

ChrisGoodwin (24375) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419303)

(NT)

Tell that to the military (3, Interesting)

JiMbOb_ka (232846) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419305)

With HP-UX and Solaris based projects getting ready for launch in the next few years I imagine that Enterprise Unices will have a long life to live.

And to banks (5, Insightful)

Bonker (243350) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419343)

Large financial organizations are typically *just* moving away from COBOL based apps running on VMS and SCO to Java and C apps running on Solaris on Sun Hardware.

Re:And to banks (5, Interesting)

begatesau (654427) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419510)

No, I don't think so--OpenVMS still sits quietly in the back corner of financial institutions, chugging away at its COBOL based applications with real fault-tolerance quite nicely thank you! Why would a soul use Java on slowaris? http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/0 2/09/1347215&mode=thread&tid=108 Besides, OpenVMS also has java and netbeans. But then again, why would anyone spend the money to migrate from COBOL to java when everything works just fine and there are great migration products like BridgeWorks available? http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/bridgewor ks You speak as if you had the power to make migration decisions, but low and behold you're probably just some troll developer with a strange opinion.

Let's have a moment of silence. (4, Funny)

xintegerx (557455) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419307)

If that's truly the last remaining solaris web server, we just slashdotted it.

Re:Let's have a moment of silence. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419372)

must be those new brand-spanking new Dell boxen.

NEVER! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419308)

The DELL CIO is dead!

What? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419309)

Unix is not dead!

Unix is dead ! - Long Live the king ! (0)

bushboy (112290) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419311)

Unix is dead ! - Long Live the King !

The King is Tux !

Ling Live the King !

Someone pass me a napkin, I have a tear in my eye...

Sounds like fear (1)

bigberk (547360) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419312)

To make such a strong statement, I think he's growing fearful in the face of growing linux use in both the home and server market . . . or he's just B.S.'ing everyone, which kind of works in the business world. It's just a polite way of sucking c0ck.

Re:Sounds like fear (1)

bigberk (547360) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419339)

oop sorry, didn't realize that was UNIX and not Linux. Never mind :)

fp (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419315)

fp

UNIX is dead! (1)

Cid Highwind (9258) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419320)

Long live UNIX!

Dell Trolls (5, Insightful)

smoondog (85133) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419321)

Isn't this a little like those trolls that post obituaries on /. for people who aren't dead yet? Anyway, I sort of agree with him, moving to Linux makes the most sense for traditional UNIX vendors that want to keep up with the market.

Anyways, so what?

-Sean

Re:Dell Trolls (5, Insightful)

Amiga Trombone (592952) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419485)

Anyways, so what?

If I had any mod points, this would get moded up as "Insightful". Really, this is irrelevant. I admin Solaris, HP-UX and AIX systems, and I'd have to say that Linux isn't significantly any differnt from them than they are from each other. Arguably, Unix as a single, discrete OS expired decades ago. There's never been a time when you run out and buy a "Unix" application, throw it on J. Random Unix System and have it run. Other than in a legal sense, that is, copyrights on the name and some specific software, the term Unix hasn't had any real meaning in years. It's become a generic term, like Kleenex or Xerox.

If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck...

Slashdot Editors = Trolls???? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419323)

Seriously, the last week was an endless streams of M$(haha, funny) stories, KDE vs. GNOME flamewars, Unix vs. Windows comparisons, and now this?

Editors, there must be some other news out there. This is neither new or interesting. This is trolling, and the offending editors should be banned from posting.

Dell CIO Confirms: Unix is Dying (5, Funny)

carpe_noctem (457178) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419325)

It is official; Dell's CIO confirms: Unix is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered Unix community when IDC confirmed that Unix market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of any computer. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that Unix has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Unix is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict Unix's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Unix faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for Unix because Unix is dying. Things are looking very bad for Unix. As many of us are already aware, Unix continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood (and when hasnt it?)

Unix is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time Unix developers Some_Engineer#1 and Some_Engineer#2 only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: Unix is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

Unix leader Linus Torvalds states that there are 7000 users of Unix. How many users of Unix are there? Let's see. The number of Unix versus Wannabee posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 Unix users. Unix posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of Unix posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of Unix. A recent article put Unix at about 80 percent of the Unix market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 Unix users. This is consistent with the number of Unix Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of nobody, abysmal sales and so on, Unix is going out of business and is being taken over by Microsoft who sell another troubled OS. Now Unix is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that Unix has steadily declined in market share. Unix is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If Unix is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. Unix continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *nix is dead.

Fact: Unix is dying.

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

Re:Dell CIO Confirms: Unix is Dying (4, Funny)

worst_name_ever (633374) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419371)

A recent article put Unix at about 80 percent of the Unix market.

Presumably the non-Unix 20% of the Unix market is O'Reilly books?

Re:Dell CIO Confirms: Unix is Dying (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419423)

No, penguin mints (TM).

Re:Dell CIO Confirms: Unix is Dying (1)

Vooch (600495) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419493)

To quote: "now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of any computer".

How do you drop down to "less than a fraction"?

He should have said, "less than 1 percent".

Linux is next evolutionary phase of *nix (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419328)

Hmm, what he's missing is that Linux is the next jump in the evolution of Unix. So it's like noting the ascendency of Cro Magnon over Neanderthal, and deducing that "cavemen are dead". Nope, it's just evolution at work, and it's yielding impressive results.

OH PHEW!! (2, Insightful)

7-Vodka (195504) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419332)

I thought he was including linux in when he said "unix is dead".
I guess not.
Well, I wonder if he's *ever heard* of freebsd or openbsd or netbsd. They are real unix. They won't easily die for a long time.

Re:OH PHEW!! (1)

wirelessbuzzers (552513) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419438)

They [freebsd, openbsd, netbsd] are real unix. They won't easily die for a long time.

I think the *BSD trolls would disagree with you.

Unix is dead (4, Interesting)

sql*kitten (1359) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419338)

Unix is dead, the product trademark owned by SCO, that is. Who uses UnixWare any more?

The unix - note the lower case - family of operating systems, however is alive and well.

Kudos to Dell for using their own servers to run their business, tho'.

Re:Unix is dead (2, Funny)

stefanlasiewski (63134) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419412)

Unix is dead, the product trademark owned by SCO, that is. Who uses UnixWare any more?

Yes, but now that Caldera and SCO are one, is Linux now UNIX® ?

Dead in name only perhaps (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419340)

Considering that the base of so many things is the unix *concept* he must be either nuts, or just referring to the copyrighted NAME 'unix'.

Either way he's an idiot. Though a rich idiot he is.....

Then who's alive? (1, Insightful)

FooBarWidget (556006) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419341)

Then which OSses HAVEN'T reached their end?
BeOS? Dead. (the open source clones/alternatives are far from ready)
Windows? Even 2000 and XP aren't nearly as stable as Unix and are completely non-portable.

Sorry but I don't see any other OS ruling the server market for quite some time.

Re:Then who's alive? (2, Insightful)

batkiwi (137781) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419486)

READ.COMPREHEND.POST

In that order, as opposed to skipping steps 1 and 2 like you seem to have done.

He's saying the days of solaris/etc (propriatary unix) on "big iron" are gone, and the days of linux on commodity hardware are here.

ummm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419344)

Granted Linux isn't considered a "true" Unix but its still considered a varient of unix. so how is unix dead if they are moving to a linux platform for its db needs? DISCLAIMER I am not a linux fan, so now you have merit to mod me down :)

RIP: UNIX* (2, Funny)

plurrbat (589706) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419346)

[fineprint]UNIX was a trademark of Bell labs.[fineprint]

you know what UNIX would say to that (1)

automag_6 (540022) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419347)

Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.

Should they begin drug testing at Dell? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419349)

Obviously, This guy is smoking dope.

nice one timothy (4, Insightful)

rnd() (118781) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419353)

Despite the provocative headline, I don't think Unix can be dead if Linux is alive. Despite the different origins, they are functionally very similar.

Maybe you should have made the headline "Dell CIO Says Closed-Source *n*x is dead". Oh, wait, that might not be quite as good at causing knee-jerk reactions.

Re:nice one timothy (1)

$$$$$exyGal (638164) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419450)

"Dell CIO Says Closed-Source *n*x is dead"

If he would have said that, there wouldn't have been any comments at all (not even first post or goatse).

Re:nice one timothy (3, Informative)

_|()|\| (159991) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419455)

Maybe you should have made the headline "Dell CIO Says Closed-Source *n*x is dead".

Except that the Dell CIO literally said, "Unix is Dead." Mott's the troll, here, not Timothy.

Re:nice one timothy (1)

bluesangria (140909) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419504)

"CIOs and IT managers need to focus the lion's share of their IT resources on innovation rather than maintenance of the status quo. Otherwise, said Mott, companies and even entire industries will never realize their full potential."

This can't be right! Everyone knows that innovations are the death of companies! [slashdot.org] Aargh! Dell is DEAD!

For my part, I view this as good news. Coming from a middling-to-small-company background, we already went with Linux for server OS a long time ago. Maybe Dell is planning on adding more software Linux support?


blue

Re:nice one timothy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419511)

You would be right, except that you are wrong.

1.) Timothy didn't say that. A Dell guy did.

2.) He said "Unix" is dead. If you bothered to read anything, they use Linux, and said everyone should use Linux instead.

are we dead too then? (1)

suhit (171059) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419354)

Unix is dead? Holy crap! This means that since we are all using it, then are we all dead too? Flashbacks of The Sixth Sense here? Noooo!!!!

Suhit

OSX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419355)

Is OS X still "Unix"?

Re:OSX (2, Informative)

psyconaut (228947) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419515)

It never was UNIX...never will be.

The term UNIX these days refers not just to underlying mechanics, but also whether or not you've licensed the rights to use the UNIX trademark from X/Open.

Plus, having a Mach kernel, you could argue that MacOS X isn't built upon anything remotely similar to any true UNIX distribution.

Just because it's got bits of *BSD above that kernel does not UNIX make it ;-)

-psy

Hoorah! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419356)

Unix is dead! Long live unix!

Tell him to get a real job (3, Insightful)

t0ny (590331) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419357)

These are the kind of statements you get from a circa dot-bomb MBA. Tell him to get out of Dell for a while and see what real businesses (like some of their customers?) are using.

When you spend hundreds of thousands to millions for custom software running on a mainframe, you arent going to be replacing the hardware every year.

UNIX is DYING (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419381)

It is official; Dell CIO now confirms: UNIX is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered UNIX community when IDC confirmed that UNIX market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that UNIX has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. UNIX is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin [amazingkreskin.com] [amazingkreskin.com] to predict UNIX's future. The hand writing is on the wall: UNIIX faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for UNIX because UNIX is dying. Things are looking very bad for UNIX. As many of us are already aware, UNIX continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

*BSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: *BSD is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

Linux leader Linus Torvalds states that there are 7000 users of Linux. How many users of Solaris are there? Let's see. The number of Linux versus Solaris posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 Solaris users. AIX posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of Solaris posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of AIX. A recent article put RedHat at about 80 percent of the UNIX market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 RedHat users. This is consistent with the number of RedHat Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, SCO went out of business and was taken over by Caldera who sell another troubled OS. Now Caldera is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that UNIX has steadily declined in market share. UNIX is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If UNIX is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. UNIX continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, UNIX is dead.

Fact: UNIX is dying

yay. (1)

Anonvmous Coward (589068) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419383)

"I thought this might spur some good discussion on this board, including jabs at Dell and MS, which I always enjoy reading"

You'll get the latter, but did you really expect the former to happen?

Text of article: (1, Redundant)

rdevans (641403) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419384)

(The site seems to be loading slow already, so here is the article's text.)

"""
Dell and Sun executives provided one of the more interesting behind-the-scenes battles at last month's LinuxWorld.

In one corner was Randy Mott, Dell CIO. In his keynote presentation, Mott urged IT managers to consider a cultural revolution that would involve ditching Unix. Mott's opening slide was a mock obituary with the headline, "Unix is Dead."

In the other corner was Jonathan Schwartz, Sun software czar. Dining with journalists and customers, Schwartz reminded us that there are some tasks for which Unix remains the only viable solution. To underscore his point, he noted that Dell still uses Sun-based systems to manage its supply chain.

Although such hyperbolic sparring is typical of this industry, I decided to probe a bit deeper into Dell's talk of revolution. Dell's response: The company is in the process of migrating off those Sun-based systems. If true, this would be consistent with a key point in Mott's presentation: CIOs and IT managers need to focus the lion's share of their IT resources on innovation rather than maintenance of the status quo. "Otherwise," said Mott, "companies and even entire industries will never realize their full potential."

"Industries that don't plan for obsolescence will get out of date and they will turn out to be different industries than what they could have been." said Mott. "Look at the airlines, an industry with big possibilities. A lot of that was realized, but it got to a point and then it stopped. Look at the big failures: Eastern Airlines, Swissair, Pan Am. That industry's potential went unfulfilled because of dated processes and obsolescence. Just think about what could have been with technologies in the airline industry in terms of speed, capacity, lowering of fuel costs, and less overhead."

No industry was safe from Mott's barbed tongue. According to Mott, "The railroad industry's failure to plan for obsolescence resulted in competitive pressures, technology hurdles, regulatory issues, schedule delays and missed opportunities."

To get out of the rut of obsolescence, Mott recommended a cultural shift. Rather than spending 85 percent of a company's resources on the status quo or "keeping the lights on," and 15 percent on development and innovation, the ratio should be turned around.

Mott plans to put his money where his mouth is.

Dell has turned the Internet and a fully, software-greased supply-chain into huge competitive advantage. Without an emphasis on those systems (and some leverage Dell can bring to bear on its suppliers), the company's direct model might never have transformed the technology industry's channel the way it has, nor might have Dell been as successful at lowering its DSI. Few companies have streamlined their supply-chain to this degree. But Mott is not willing to rest on Dell's laurels. Staying far ahead of the obsolescence curve, says Mott, has incited a cultural revolution within his organization that will lead to a long term reallocation of Dell's resources.

But these revolutions take time. Mott's roadmap shows Dell getting to the 15/ 85 status quo/innovation ratio by the end of the decade. By the end of Dell's fiscal year 2004, Mott predicts, the company will achieve a 45/55 split. By 2006, it will be 25/75.

This is where the Unix issue plays a key role in Mott's plans. To reallocate resources in this fashion, Dell has to do more (or at least the same) with less. Because Dell's systems are based on Oracle, and Oracle is available to both the Sun Solaris and Red Hat Linux environments, Mott says that Dell looked into switching to Linux. The company determined that such move would yield a configuration 89 percent faster and 41 less expensive. Keeping in mind that Dell has strategic sales relationships with both Red Hat and Oracle, it's hard to say how much of this reconfiguration is mandated. On the other hand, I can't believe that Mott would risk his career and his company's future on a move in which he did not have full confidence.

That move, says Dell spokesperson Wendy Giever, is now underway. "Schwartz is right. Currently, our order management, customer transaction information, manufacturing flow, and software downloads (as a part of our build-to-order manufacturing process) all involve Sun-based Unix systems. But that's all being moved to Dell-based systems running Red Hat Linux and Oracle 9iRAC. So far, 14 Sun systems are gone and the plans are to complete the 'Sun setting' exercise this year."

"The importance of the Unix era vs. Linux era," says Mott, "Is that Linux is based on open standards that will allow CIOs to build flexibility, affordability and performance into business computing platforms."

Indeed, Linux on Intel may be an enabler of those Holy Grails sought by CIOs. But calling any primary part of the combined platform an open standard is a stretch. While Intel's architecture continues to dominate the industry, it is by no means an open standard. Oracle 9iRAC isn't even close to an open standard (although it supports many). And what of Linux? Does open source an open standard make? That's a question I'll leave open to you and Sun's Jonathan Schwartz, who told me that trusting your systems to open source could be a mistake.

Said Schwartz, "I don't think businesses are really prepared to trust their mission critical systems to technologies where, if something goes wrong with the open source, nobody is responsible for fixing it and doing all the testing on a timely basis. With Sun, you've got a single throat to choke and we can respond instantly."

Apparently, Dell's Mott doesn't see the risks the same way. And neither do some of ZDNet's readers, like Steve Goldsmith and Rick Proctor.

Reported by ZDWire Plus via NewsEdge.
"""

Red Hat != UNIX ?!? (5, Insightful)

ink (4325) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419386)

Specifically, he talked about the savings he claims in moving Dell's Oracle databases from Solaris to Red Hat.

Considering that I've migrated from systems such as NeXT and AIX to Linux-based solutions with very few problems, I'd put forth the assertion that any Linux distribution would qualify as `UNIX' to most lay definitions of the term. I've even taken applications from Oracle/WinNT to Oracle/RedHat with minor issues. Computer operating systems are simply getting better; more commoditizied, which is why Microsoft is afraid of Linux right now. The "UNIX vendors" are still shipping machines, but with Linux installed instead of their "big iron" legacy UNIX systems. I think that he should have said "Operating Systems are Dead" instead -- which is how it should be; the computer should simply get out of our way and let us get jobs done in an efficient manner.

What used to be home-user shops, such as Dell, can now ship high-quality UNIX solutions thanks to Linux and BSD. Quibbling over the proper definition of UNIX seems silly. If it looks like UNIX, acts like UNIX and runs the source found on "legacy" UNIX systems, well, what is it?

I've got to agree (4, Insightful)

arvindn (542080) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419390)

IMHO, There is one factor which is going to make it rapidly more difficult for Unix to exist, and I haven't seen mentioned anywhere.

Tomorrow's sysadmins and software chiefs are mostly today's CS students. Considering the enormous popularity of Linux with students (for obvious reasons), these new faces will enter the field with much more programming experience and familiarity on Linux than [insert properietary UNIX here]. So, except for very specialized scenarios, I don't think Unix stands a chance.

Just my 2 cents.

-- A humble CS student.

Re:I've got to agree (1)

Usquebaugh (230216) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419498)

I doubt very much that the next generation of 'software chiefs' are currently studying CS. More lilely they are studying economics or business. CS people do not get the big management roles, or very rarely.

Vested interest???!!! (5, Insightful)

LippyTheLip (582561) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419394)

Hmm... Could it be that Dell has an interest in actively killing enterprise-class unix, given that Dell doesn"t manufacture any serious unix hardware. (I know you can installed various flavors of unix on Dell servers and workstations, but Dell has clearly and intentionally linked its own success to Microsoft's.)

This is about as surprising as Microsoft claiming that open source software is crap.

To me, This just smacks of wishful thinking and marketing.

enjoy (5, Interesting)

suhit (171059) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419395)

John C. Dvorak writes "Unix is Dead! Wanna Fight??" [molgen.mpg.de] .

Also, here is a funny comeback from http://www.superhero.org [superhero.org] "Windows 95 is finally out, and I keep reading in all the consultants' columns that UNIX is dead. I believe them, of course--they're paid well to make such pronouncements--but UNIX seems pretty lively for a corpse. Whenever a hardware vendor brings out the latest hot box, it seems to be running UNIX; the telecom industry still likes UNIX pretty much; and there sure seem to be a lot of UNIX users out there on the Internet. If UNIX is so old, how can it be producing offspring like that little scamp, Linux?
"Maybe these consultants are confusing dying with age. UNIX is old, a lot older than the other operating systems that have long since passed on. In spite of its twenty-six years, however, UNIX continues to crunch numbers while younger systems can only gum them till they're mushy. What explains this mysterious longevity?

"I have a theory. UNIX survives because, unlike other operating systems, it lacks doubt and guilt. UNIX does just what you tell it to, as quickly and efficiently as it can, and then it waits for more work. It doesn't worry about whether what you asked it to do was fair, beneficial, or even sensible. It just does it.

"By contrast, Windows frets about you. It offers you hints and choices and dialog boxes. Help is everywhere (for what it's worth). And if you ask Windows to do anything of consequence, it asks you to confirm your request, and then it tells you what it did. Delete a large number of files, and Windows is exhausted. It's not the work, it's the *stress*. It's no wonder that Windows systems tend to freeze up where a UNIX system would crash.

"UNIX snorts at Windows-style solicitude. UNIX doesn't ask you to confirm--if you didn't want it to do what you asked, why did you ask it? Similarly, it won't annoy you by reporting the consequences of what you did. Why would you enter a command if you don't first know its consequences?"

Suhit

So.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419397)

Is BSD Dead?

Re:So.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419403)

This izz liek so lamo

Steps to world domination. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419400)

  1. Install kde-current from cvs.
  2. Install mosfet liqud
  3. Install Acqua l3m
  4. Make sure it looks like this [kdelook.org]
  5. Install wine
  6. post bsd is dying troll on slashdot
  7. Laugh at longhorn m4 for looking stupid
  8. Dude, your getting a penguin
  9. ????
  10. NO PROFIT (linux isn't a viable business model remember)

How the heck is he.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419405)

...anonymous,when u provide a link to his site,with everything from what he does to what he is going to do is documented:-).?
Did somebody here change the definition of ANONYMOUS?

Re:How the heck is he.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419468)

Hahaha. That is pretty fucking hillarious. Post anonymously, but make sure to link to your webiste, which is subtitled "...a shameless showcase of my life..." Well, he's not anonymous any more...

LOL (1)

Bob Wehadababyitsabo (629809) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419406)

/.'ed already? Must have been served off UNIX...

It's not dead. (1)

Jhon (241832) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419409)

It's pining for the fiords!

Sorry Folks (1)

smoondog (85133) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419410)

Message: Never believe any predictions from someone who has something to gain ($$) from them becoming true.

-Sean

He means commercial Unices (1)

BenjyD (316700) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419411)

"Because Dell's systems are based on Oracle, and Oracle is available to both the Sun Solaris and Red Hat Linux environments, Mott says that Dell looked into switching to Linux. The company determined that such move would yield a configuration 89 percent faster and 41 less expensive."

Before all the people who don't RTFA (or only read the first paragraph, he means "Old-style" Unix, not Linux. Carry on.

Re:He means commercial Unices (1)

psyconaut (228947) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419496)

He did, however, omit the factoid that the new system was 50% less reliable ;-)

But it does crash 89% faster now, so who cares? ;-)

-psy

i agree with him (1)

Dankling (596769) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419416)

Specifically, he talked about the savings he claims in moving Dell's Oracle databases from Solaris to Red Hat.

If I had a company using Red Hat or Solaris, i would want them to die out too.

The Plane! The Plane! (1)

anonymousman77 (584651) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419417)

To Dell's CIO:

Do you see planes landing where you are?
Are you standing next to a short guy named Tatu?
I only ask because, I think you're living on Fantasy Island.

UNIX is not dead. Windows is dead.

I a world without boundries or borders, who needs Windows and Gates?

So he didn't get the memo? (1)

loucura! (247834) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419424)

Hmm... I'll make sure he gets a copy.

From Dennis Ritchie's point of view, Linux is Unix. So, if Dell is switching from Solaris to Red Hat, then Unix really isn't all that dead.

Re:So he didn't get the memo? (5, Funny)

MeanMF (631837) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419492)

From Dennis Ritchie's point of view, Linux is Unix.

But if GNU's Not UNIX, then is GNU/Linux Unix or not?

part of evolution and some hype (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419427)



Unix is being phased out by Linux which is a Unix clone, so in a sense Unix is more alive then ever.
I guess the traditional Unices are becoming less popular mainly due to all the Linux hype. When it comes to server environement Linux is no better then commercial Unices.

Nah. (4, Insightful)

sbaker (47485) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419431)

As the boss of Silicon Graphics once famously said: "Linux is the Future of UNIX". UNIX isn't dead - it's just had a major rewrite/cleanup. That's hardly suprising for a 30 year old software package.

The code has changed completely - but the core ideas are exactly as they were back in 1976 when I used UNIX on a PDP-11.

There are more people using UNIX-like OS's now than there have ever been.

Linux is the next MS (1, Interesting)

jloukinas (304314) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419435)

Being a pre-linux supporter it does nothing but bad for Sun, HP, and IBM. Linux spends almost no money in R&D and Sun spends like 2 billion. Stop ripping their shit off and come up with your own stuff or Unix will die.

This is a BIG lie (0)

Blueice88 (648233) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419440)

I thought which it is a BIG lie.In this last years the Linux show to the world of computing your big progress.This guy who talk this is a bigger idiot.Ah just a answer:in your opinion what are the best distro of Linux?Debian,Suse,Mandrake???best regards Blueice88

Unix is not dead (1)

cyber_rigger (527103) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419452)

Paying for unix may be becoming dead. Unix (linux, BDS) is alive and well.

Byte agreed.... (4, Interesting)

veg (76076) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419453)

A few years ago, one of the ops at my place of work put a magazine in my (real-word) intray. It was a copy of Byte Magazine with a front-cover headline "Is NT the end of UNIX ?".

At the time this was a common headline in the popular rags...and then I noticed the date - February 1992 :)

This crap appears every five years along with "life on Mars" and "possible cure for cancer".

The words "snake" and "oil" come to mind.

unix is dead... (0)

cyranoVR (518628) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419458)

LONG LIVE UNIX!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Really? (1)

Omega's Wildfire (603364) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419461)

I guess we will all be switching over to somethig better like Microcrap. Whoops did I spell the company name wrong? hehe

I can't wait until I'm famous enough... (4, Funny)

exp(pi*sqrt(163)) (613870) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419469)

...that when I troll it doesn't just disappear in the mod trashcan but gets reported in the news and even appears on the fron page of /.

The only UNIX is Linux (1)

argoff (142580) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419479)


This was the title to a post I made a few years ago on slashdot on an article that talked about the future of UNIX, and where I was quickly beat down by people who suggested I was arrogant and condosending, out of touch, blah blah blah.

The fact is that Linux dosen't have anything they couldn't have - it's just too many people are trying to create some type of equivalency relationship between (or even worse claim superiority to) software that is free and software that is not. I wish people would get it. Freedom matters, and free markets are not about markets but about freedom - and people using that freedom to become successfull.

Linux just goes to prove that when you have freedom, markets tend to come about naturally as people use that freedom to seek out their own best interests and desires. But when you have markets that does not necssairly lead to freedoms as people who are still trying to believe in controlled software are suffering for failing to understand.

I see dead operating systems ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419481)

Dead? Well, it did feel a bit slow this morning :-)

BAHAHAH (0)

dpvtank (654603) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419482)

BAHAHA...thats hilarious..unix is dead...i think he is dead and speaking from beyond the grave :rolleyes:

clarification... (1, Informative)

3-State Bit (225583) | more than 10 years ago | (#5419502)

...unix is the "unix" that we used to write u*nix for or un*x, etc, because it was supposed to be trademarked or something.

it's not *BDS, including OS X.
It's not Linux.

And, honestly, when was the lastt ime you heard anything about Unix, proper.

I agree: unix is dead.

So is that the guy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#5419514)

who's been posting those BSD is dead messages almost on every story? Or has he been reading those?
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