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Cornell Implementing Bandwidth Charges

michael posted more than 11 years ago | from the information-wants-to-be-expensive dept.

Education 525

Sabalon writes "Cornell University is planning on implementing a plan where if faculty, staff or students use more than 2GB of bandwidth a month, they will be charged for the additional bandwidth usage. The article mentions that last year over 100,000GB worth of files were sent from Cornell's network. I'm sure this is not the only school doing this or moving to this. I'm sure the conspiracy theory people will see this as a suggestion by Microsoft to stop students from getting those pesky Linux iso images. At least, according to the RIAA, CD sales around Cornell should now skyrocket :)" It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Since students often have accounts on several different university machines, I suspect the more rebellious ones will be running an assortment of proxies and redirections to get around the restrictions.

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Necessary, but stifling (5, Insightful)

Templar (14386) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452539)

I agree that this is absolutely necessary, as I pay the bandwidth bills at my company and know what it's like, but they have to be careful not to stifle innovation, as the security features they will now need become more and more complicated.

What will this do to the thousands of students that use 802.11b at the library and other campus buildings? [80211-planet.com] Will the charges be based on MAC address? Since MAC addresses are so easy to spoof, authentication will become necessary. How can that be done easily across multiple platforms?

The new measures might wind up costing them more than they expected. How about limiting speed by user? That would not get in the way of most legitimate research, but it would render P2P movie sharing useless.

Re:Necessary, but stifling (-1)

Salad Shooter (600065) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452555)

You can kiss my ass, biaatch!

I'll beat you upside the head with a rubber dildo.

Re:Necessary, but stifling (5, Interesting)

diablobynight (646304) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452585)

and why would you want to render that useless? P2P is the reason why most people get broadband. Cornell students actually pay an added fee of 250$ per year for their network connection on top of their 30,000$ a year tuition. I say Cornell should quit bitchin and open up another OC3. lol

Re:Necessary, but stifling (4, Informative)

MeanMF (631837) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452594)

Will the charges be based on MAC address? Since MAC addresses are so easy to spoof, authentication will become necessary.

Most recently-made switches can be set to only allow a single MAC address per port.. This would fix their problem with hubs as well as prevent MAC spoofing. Some can also be set to only allow the first MAC address that they see on a port and then lock out any new ones, making administration a little easier.

Re:Necessary, but stifling (2, Interesting)

glenkim (412499) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452603)

Here at UC Berkeley, we have a thing called AirBears (http://airbears.berkeley.edu/ [berkeley.edu] ). Before you can use the net, you have to login through a web page, which is a proxy to kerberos authentication. This is a pretty easy to use setup, and I'm pretty sure that the login is simple enough that even something like lynx or w3m could use it. The only problem is that there is more than one wireless net access service on campus, and they don't all use the same authentication method as AirBears.

Re:Necessary, but stifling (1)

weave (48069) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452773)

That looks really sweet. Is the source open for this? I looked around and didn't see it. Any similar capability out there? I've been wondering how to provide wifi to our students and avoid WEP hassles. The kerberos bit shouldn't be a problem since we could use AD. I'm assuming there is a gateway that after authentication, starts routing the packets beyond the gateway.

Wireless takeovers Re:Necessary, but stifling (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452683)

What will this do to the thousands of students that use 802.11b at the library and other campus buildings?

With any growth of restrictions placed on their network, we could expect that wireless communications will increase as individuals find alternate routes in and out of the current infrastructure.

Re:Necessary, but stifling (5, Interesting)

pizza_milkshake (580452) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452703)

I completely disagree. While I don't necessarily support broadband restrictions, this could have interesting consequences. The most innovative solutions start happening when resources are limited.

How will the smart kids get around this? Perhaps finding students with no computer and negotiating to let them hook up some kind of wireless solution so they can use their bandwidth as well.

Perhaps the kids will figure out how to make it look like they're really other users in order to get their bandwidth. Ethically perhaps not great, but when the going gets tough...

As for downloading files, perhaps this will bring out more of a community spirit -- users should pool their resources. Instead of 50 students downloading a game, 5 will download it and share it via CDRs.

I have no doubt that the enterprising students will either find ways around (or at least optimal solutions to) the caps.

Re:Necessary, but stifling (4, Interesting)

Archfeld (6757) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452793)

or perhaps they will do like they did with the dorm phone systems when the colleges got greedy, go elsewhere...
I remember not to long ago the universites complaining about how they were losing money on dorm phones now. They got greedy, over-charged and found out that inovation isn't dead, it just needs some prodding. Now most on-campus students use cell phones, the universities are still REQUIRED to maintain an expensive phone system and they get no money for it...well thought out plan.

Re:Necessary, but stifling (1)

ruiner13 (527499) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452761)

Agreed, I don't know how they plan on doing this. If they use MAC addresses, those can be easily spoofed. If they use IP addresses, those are easy to get around too, but there is also the problem of roommates sharing a connection between two computers in the same room. If your roomie is a bandwidth hog, depending on how they implement this, it could be very troubling.

Re:Necessary, but stifling (2, Informative)

ttyp0 (33384) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452765)

How can that be done easily across multiple platforms?

Easily.. Our school uses a Cisco VPN [purdue.edu] solution to authenticate students accross the wireless network. Your MAC address is then attached to your student ID. I would imagine they could easily record bandwidth that way. And yes, they have Linux clients for this configuration :)

Ugh. (3, Interesting)

Luceo (552234) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452547)

And I was annoyed when WVU blocked access to Napster, hiding behind the lie that it used too much bandwidth. I knew the guys who worked in the NOC; we never used anywhere near the amount of available bandwidth.

Re:Ugh. (2, Insightful)

russx2 (572301) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452659)

But available bandwidth doesn't usually mean it's 'unmetered' in terms of cost within the amount available.

Re:Ugh. (1)

Slack0ff (590042) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452681)

This is just the universities still thinking they can outwit their own students. I dont know about the rest of you but I dont see this stopping anyone but a P2P Novice. Just my 2 Cents

Re:Ugh. (5, Insightful)

ayf6 (112477) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452772)

Probrably because the school doesnt WANT to reach their peak bandwith. They dont just get bandwith for free... They have to pay an upstream provider just like the majority of the rest of us. There are very few of use that are fortunate to be a Tier-1 provider. You school probrably - i have no idea of what their actually agreement w/ their telcom is - is that they pay for X bandwith but a rise to X' will cost them money. They have X' prime bandwith to use however they pay for X and have to pay an additional fee when they rise to X'. For example you may have a OC3/T3 line put into your company but have it capped at 25Mb/s but if you have need to rise to 45Mb/s you can call your telcom and ask them to do this. This is perhaps the reason your friend in the NOC thought you had more bandwith then you really did. "Sure joe we have and OC3 here..." but he neglects/doesnt know that its only a partial OC3.

Wow, high-tech... (4, Funny)

MeanMF (631837) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452548)

"entrepreneurial" staff and faculty members began using devices, called multiport repeaters, to plug more than one computer into a single network port.

That sounds pretty cool - maybe I'll get one of those to replace my hub...

Here it is, 20 minutes late... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452549)

First Unpaid Post!

Way Up In Ya! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452551)

I got it bitch! Suck it down! Drink dick!

Re:Way Up In Ya! (0)

mlerner (601733) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452631)

uhm that should read -1 off topic and too sick for /.

Only internet usage (2, Insightful)

fatwreckfan (322865) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452553)

So internal (i.e. resnet) usage continues unfettered? One person downloads The Two Towers and the whole school can get it. I don't see how the cap will make a huge difference in the long run.

Re:Only internet usage (3, Insightful)

Hiro Antagonist (310179) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452640)

This isn't an anti-piracy move, though -- this is a move to cut down on the amount of Internet bandwidth for which the University has to pay.

Re:Only internet usage (1)

Oculus Habent (562837) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452680)

Cornell has entered into a partnership with local Office Supply stores - CD-R sales are expected to skyrocket!

Re:Only internet usage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452759)

At Case Western, few people went outside of the campus network to get files because of a great search engine someone built to comb the SMB shares. Now, if every campus had that, I bet the outbound bandwidth usage would decrease by a large amount on many campuses. (But the RIAA would not be too happy about the new search engines.)

Re:Only internet usage (2, Insightful)

EvilTwinSkippy (112490) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452763)

I run a network for a science museum.

We have been fighting bandwidth wars with the Staff. One nice thing about clamping down on employees is that we are sending checks to THEM, not vice verse.

You just make sure you use a local mirror to do you linux installs, and stick to stories and still photos for pr0n. I mean, videos are nice but its the law of diminishing returns.

Re:Only internet usage (1)

LenE (29922) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452766)

The problem is that each port will be monitored, as well as each IP. Already, the campus IT department charges prohibitive fees for attaching a hub or switch to a wall port. They want each port to be used by one and only one computer. You could probably share the movies with your roommates, but anyone else would require going through the wall jack.

They already moniter bandwidth by both physical port and IP address. They do this to try to curb things like Code Red and the like as well as P2P.

In my lab, I have several machines that are used only occasionally, as well as some machines that are used constantly. Unfortunately, the machines are physically separated by being in two different rooms and most of the machines are on mobile carts. I either have to rent a port for each machine (~$100 a month) or attach a switch to a wall port (~$1000/month). Our solution was to tie the rooms together with fiber, and switch away. In this way, we only have to pay for one $1000 port, but it is quite inconvenient.

-- Len

Not that new.. (4, Insightful)

Gortbusters.org (637314) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452557)

I have a friend at Vanderbilt, he has a 200 meg per day quota. If he exceeds that quota he'll get a warning the first time, and the second time he will loose his LAN connection.

I have heard other stories as well where they have monthly quotas and then get charged - or more often - service revoked.

Re:Not that new.. (1)

nfsilkey (652484) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452672)

UTexas instituted a weekly resnet bandwidth quota during Christmas of 2000. 3GB/week with a 500mb grace quota. In the event an ACO went over the three gig mark, every hour auditing scripts would take notice and disable said port. To access the 500mb grace, a person had to logon to a pesky resnet port authentication page to request the grace quota. What is funny is I have no idea how they expected people to do as such without access to the net. Hooray for public terminals. ;)

Also, UTexas has been charging residents for ResNet. When I left the dorms, I was paying ~$6-7/mo for access. According to my mates in the dorms now, a.) the cost is over double that, and b.) ports must be paid for _IN ADVANCE_. Ouch.-

Re:Not that new.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452696)

If he exceeds that quota he'll get a warning the first time, and the second time he will loose his LAN connection.

I don't get it. If he looses his LAN connection, can't he just tighten it again?

Oh, wait...

It's a simple fix (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452729)

If he exceeds that quota he'll get a warning the first time, and the second time he will loose his LAN connection.

Just replace the jack at the end of the cable, and your loose LAN connection will be fixed.

2GB??! (1)

Clay Mitchell (43630) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452566)

Are they serious? Hell, I get that much SPAM a month. But in all seriousness, this is pretty weak. Really weak in fact. that comes out to ~66MB a day.

So much for playing games online, downloading game demos (those things are like 150-250MB a piece) and I don't think you can even download Mandrake's entire distribution (though that may be a sympton of Mandrake's bloat)...

Hey, I guess this will make Gentoo take off :)

Re:2GB??! (1)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452614)

So much for playing games online, downloading game demos

Not that I'm keen on the idea, but if you look on the other side of the fence... The computers and network are for educational purposes, not personal entertainment.

Re:2GB??! (1)

The Other White Boy (626206) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452666)

i think this applies to on-campus dorms with network connectivity as well, which the students pay for as an additional commodity. i dont think such a thing would/should be limited on an 'educational' basis, but probably does need to be capped to keep people from running servers, kazaa backbones, etc. =)

however, 2gb is WAY too low. good god.

Re:2GB??! (1)

jazznjava (639633) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452736)

It does apply to dorms. And they're already paying $40 per person per month to get it. That makes $0.02 per megabyte. Thank god I moved off campus and RoadRunner allows routers.

Re:2GB??! (1)

Clay Mitchell (43630) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452689)

Well, if it's just for lab computers, I'd agree.

But if this is for the dorms and such - no, you're wrong. People in college aren't learning 24/7, they do have some type of free time.

What are they going to do next, limit the amount of electricity you can use? Hate to see kids using TV for something other than learning...

Re:2GB??! (1)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452718)

But if this is for the dorms and such - no, you're wrong. People in college aren't learning 24/7, they do have some type of free time.

Its still the campus network. But, if bandwidth costs are part of your dorm expenses (explicitly), then its fair to cry foul.

Re:2GB??! (1)

RatBastard (949) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452725)

As long as it's the school's network they can say what yiou can use it for and how much is fair for you to use. Use of the school's network is a priveledge, not a right.

Re:2GB??! (1)

diablobynight (646304) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452760)

Uh huh, and if they block p2p like my school did. Then they'll have Kettering's (used to be GMI) problems. Now Kettering can only get freshman to live in dorms because off campus housing is cheaper even with the business class DSL I have coming into my house up there, I get 4MB/s all to me and my 4 friends. and still pay less than I did in dorms. "Fuck Cornell, Fuck them right in the mouth."

Re:2GB??! (1)

SirSlud (67381) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452791)

I dont go off like this too often, but you're a smarmy retard. That kind of response is Glib, Annoying Stock Answer #23.

If somebody pays tuition, they expect something back in return.

Whats next, you pay tution only to find out learning is a priveledge, not a right?

What the hell are students paying for, the right to maybe have access to the resources they pay tution for?

Re:2GB??! (1)

sebmol (217013) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452708)

I would have to disagree with that. While educational and administratives purposes are definitely a part of what university networks are for, entertainment is an important part too. Especially so, if you consider that a lot of students live in overpriced dorms anyway. Right now, I'm paying $675/month for a room the size of an average kitchen with bathroom down the hall, heating and air with a response time of two days and crappy food on campus. The internet connection is really just a consolation for the high cost.

And before you say that I don't have to live in the dorms, I'm sure my school is not the only one requring students to live on campus for at least a year.

Re:2GB??! (1)

diablobynight (646304) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452796)

we only paid 500 a month, but I still agree... we were required to live on campus as Freshman and not allowed to bring cars, that kind of limits possible activities. and after paying my 26 grand a year tuition, I don't have a lot of reserve money for going out to the movies, p2p saved my sanity, then they blocked the ports, and I spent a lot of time crying to the silence of a kazaa without a connection. next year moved off campus and could afford business call DSL with 4 of my friends and paid less than I did on campus, schools lie about the cost of their bandwidth

Re:2GB??! (0, Offtopic)

dildatron (611498) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452756)

Actually, it's both. Pr0n.

Re:2GB??! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452720)

YOu have to download the source with Gentoo! Source is at least twice as large, if not larger, than the binary. Screw Gentoo, I'll spend $10 to get a Debian CD set - much cheaper than the bandwidth it would have consumed.

Also, switch to Threaded on Slashdot - nested can get pretty big.

Oh come on. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452780)

What the heck do you think the university network is FOR? They aren't in the ISP business. Games? Get an account somewhere ELSE for god's sake...I thought you were at university to get a degree??

Oh wait, this is slashdot, home of "everything should be given to us for free regardless of legality"...not free as in beer or speech, free as in "gimme gimme gimme".

Linux distros (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452571)

In Sherbrooke (Quebec) where I studied, they found a solution to this : a fileserver on the university network. You want a distro? Get it from there. And yes, they support more than one distro.

Benoit

Re:Linux distros (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452702)

La petanque

Merci Benoit.

same here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452581)

My school should implement the same thing, because there are Kazaa installed on some of the machines and get hacked ;-)

Speaking of CIPA... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452587)

Have I told you how Michael Sims, the "author" of this story, stole the Censorware Project out of my very hands? I am personally shocked and appalled that he is still allowed to work without owning up to his complete irresponsibility.

And oh yeah, his stupid attempts at humor are terrible. Adbusters terrible. "Wah wah I hate corporations!" says the corporate whore Michael.

Though this message is posted anonymously, I will attest to it and verify it if needed. Other message posted by similar-looking accounts, or not attested, are frauds. - Seth Finklestein, uid#582901

What are you SMOKING?!? (2, Insightful)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452589)

I'm sure the conspiracy theory people will see this as a suggestion by Microsoft to stop students from getting those pesky Linux iso images.

That is the dumbest thing I've ever read. How often do you download Linux ISO images? Its one of those "Hey, if I mention Linux, maybe I'll get posted" lines. It was unneccessary (but surprising it wasn't michael, to be honest).

Re:What are you SMOKING?!? (1)

dd (15470) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452658)

Not that dumb actually. Even though Red Hat is mirrored here where I work, the betas, for example, are typically not. Three RedHat beta versions in the past two months, at a minimum of 3 iso-images each.. and you would kick your quota in the teeth pretty hard.

Re:What are you SMOKING?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452698)

Oh and students really need to download every beta of redhat that comes out. That is about as week an arguments as the guy who bitched about downloading game demos.

The fact is that in the real world bandwidth is not free. It's about time that these so-called students wake up.

Re:What are you SMOKING?!? (2, Insightful)

Clay Mitchell (43630) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452748)

the kids aren't getting the bandwidth for free. they are already paying up for it.

and bandwidth *ISN'T THAT EXPENSIVE* - seriously

there are several providers (rackshack.net, nocster.com) which provide dedicated servers + 3 or 400GB of tranfer for $100/month.

don't give me that "OMG IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE" bull.

Re:What are you SMOKING?!? (1)

intermodal (534361) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452667)

I download linux ISOs all the time. I don't use P2P filesharing utilities of the KaZaA type at all, I just use the internet for communications, business, and technical needs such as updates to my software (mostly on Gentoo) as well as downloading ISOs of distros I try out on my other boxes. I don't see how any educational facility of merit could possibly want to penalize me for researching my chosen interests.

ah, back to yearning for times when the internet didn't have everyone and his brother on it, despite the slow download speeds if you dont live on a campus...

Re:What are you SMOKING?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452694)

Red Hat is 5 ISOs for their latest distro. While only 3 of them are necessary for the install, that's still about 1.8 GB's to download with really little to spare the rest of the month.

But then again they could do an FTP install...

Would somebody please think of the poor, pr0n and mp3 needy students who don't want to run Microsoft software?

Re:What are you SMOKING?!? (1)

josh crawley (537561) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452738)

Too Too true. If anything, I carry around with me a Linuxcare bootable business card for computer fixing and (cough) other things ;-) Usually I'll do a Debian install of stable 3.0r1 and then decide to 'move on up' to testing if it's a desktop machine.

If I was running a Linux desktop lab, I'd use debian and netboot the whole thing and DD a ftpmount'ed image across the hard drive (Assuming the hardware is standardized. All the packages and cd's would be local. And if I had all that archive, I'd also open it to local traffic to school downloads (by dual-homing of course).

I totally agree with you that downloading 2 gigs per month every month of ISO's is bonkers. But you shouldnt have insulted "Deity Michael". He's a bonehead with infinte mod points. Still, anybody on my friends list is given +6 and anybody who's given FofF is +3. I still see the people who matter, no matter how deep in the karma ground they are. (wink)

Finally they hit it on the head. (1)

CaptainAx (606247) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452596)

This is packet shaping how it should have been implemented since this P2P craze began...

Bandwidth pooling (4, Interesting)

cybermace5 (446439) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452597)

Cornell students:

Whip up a little distributed program that people can run on their machines. When a bandwidth addict runs out of their 2GB, Internet packets can be forwarded and micropayments credited, undercutting Cornell's prices! The program automatically directs packet requests to the users with the most remaining bandwidth, and you can set a maximum forward limit, to save a little Internet for yourself.

Perfect for those students who don't use 2GB per month.

Re:Bandwidth pooling (1)

Slack0ff (590042) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452732)

Or they could just keep it simple and let that kid that doesnt use all his bandwidth download it for him and burn it on a cd. No need for all that excessive work.

Re:Bandwidth pooling (1)

cybermace5 (446439) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452797)

If one person downloads one CD of the Redhat ISOs, that's more than a quarter of their monthly bandwidth. Now, if all three Redhat ISOs are downloaded from 20 civil and chemical engineering majors, then nobody's hurting.

See, the people who would download a Redhat ISO are the ones who need bandwidth most. The object is to appropriate the bandwidth of those who don't need it.

Re:Bandwidth pooling (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452784)

Sounds like a senior project. ;)

odd (0)

xtac (597314) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452600)

And they thought schools were for learning :)

It is about time (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452606)

Cornell is a bastion of limousine liberals, socialists, and outright commies. They think everything in life is free. They don't want to work for anything, just take from the sweat of others to satisfy their sloth. These fees will be a good object lesson in how the real world works.

Re:It is about time (1)

diablobynight (646304) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452687)

That's a bunch of shit. Cornell is filled with student son scholarship or scraping buy to afford, my best friend is in the ROTC there to pay for his college. It's a very difficult engineering school, that you would be so lucky to have been accepted to.

Re:It is about time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452776)

diablobynight says:
Cornell is filled with student son scholarship or scraping buy to afford, my
best friend is in the ROTC there to pay for his college.
Evidently in addition to commies, Cornell is full of illiterates.

Re:It is about time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452735)

yes!!! in christ's name we pray amen!!!

From a CU guy (4, Interesting)

WTarrasque (565620) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452607)

From observing my friends, my enemies, and even thine professors here at CU, the CAP comes because of the incredible usage. With 500kbs and up transfer speeds from Cornell to elsewhere, it was bound to happen. Geeky friends have topped 20 GB of transfers in a night, and secondary computers used solely for storage on the network at not unheard of even in the dorms at CU. Currently, students are charged over $45 dollars a month for the use of Cornell's Uplink to the internet in dorms. Next years plan shows that this cost may go down, but so will the allowed bandwidth.

irrefutable? (2, Funny)

fandelem (559908) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452611)

"The logs provide an irrefutable record of which departments and users are consuming the most Internet bandwidth. "
Next week's headlines: The main routers that hold all the log information were found tampered with. -k

linux iso's (3, Insightful)

Stanley Feinbaum (622232) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452616)

Why not order or buy a box copy of your favorite linux distro? Maybe people should actually be supporting the linux distro companies. It's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying windows XP.

I'm sure if some people actually supported Mandrake by buying their product they wouldn't be going out of business now.

Re:linux iso's (3, Interesting)

Dynedain (141758) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452695)

Why not order or buy a box copy of your favorite linux distro? Maybe people should actually be supporting the linux distro companies. It's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying windows XP./I

Because they are students.....there's a reason why the Educational version of applications are usually much much cheaper.

Not a big deal (5, Funny)

Txiasaeia (581598) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452620)

So make a friend who doesn't use all of his/her bandwidth and leech offa that when you're at your limit.

I mean, the toughest part about this plan is the "making friend" bit... but I'm sure that's not too tough, right? Any one?

Re:Not a big deal (1)

Anonvmous Coward (589068) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452742)

"I mean, the toughest part about this plan is the "making friend" bit... but I'm sure that's not too tough, right? Any one?"

But Farscape's on tonight!

But of course... (2, Interesting)

themaddone (180841) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452629)

Of course, Cornell won't decrease the fees that students pay for their LAN access. They go from unlimited usage for X dollars per month or semester to 2 GB for the same X dollars.

Why can't you buy a bigger pipe? Cornell could make some good money off the 'bandwidth hogs,' who would never feel it because it's paid for by either a) Mommy and Daddy or b) Financial aid anyway.

Yeah, CD sales will rise. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452636)

Blank CD sales. Who needs to download an iso when you can just grab a CD of one from a LUG. Consolidation of resources is the way to get around this capping. Done correctly, P2P should consume less bandwidth than the normal internet, as all the traffic would be local. But does anybody recognize this? No.

Wish they had this back in 1995... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452637)

...when I went to Cornell. Then I might have spent less time playing Quake and hording mp3's, and more time on academics...

Skyrocket this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452645)

2 GB is 400 singles. I don't think more CD sales are destined around Utica.

What about streaming video? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452647)

With my subscrition to Ten.com it is easy to push 2 gig in a single day.

redirections also good for prioritized connections (1)

ca1v1n (135902) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452661)

At my university, those few privileged enough to have unix machines in offices under their complete control often set up IPsec tunnels from their dorm machines, because the dorm net connection to the outside world is prioritized, and anything other than port 80, port 22, port 5190 (AIM) and a few others goes painfully slow. The main campus network is not on a prioritized router, and the connection between the dorm net and the main net is not either, so people use that to play nice low-latency quake. If they implement something like that here, unless they're metering at the switch to the dorm room, people will get around it.

Re:redirections also good for prioritized connecti (1)

robi2106 (464558) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452798)

Even accounting for people that do this, Universities will save loads of bandwidth. The few and far between that can do this will do this. The vast majority of kids sharing out their e:\mp3 drive will be affected, to the gain of everyone else on campus (reduced network strain = less frequent equipment upgrades; faster DB access for inside comuting, faster comm between universities).

robi

The abusers probably won't know what hit them (2, Interesting)

ThePyro (645161) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452665)

"I suspect the more rebellious ones will be running an assortment of proxies and redirections to get around the restrictions."

I suspect that the majority of the people with that kind of know-how weren't the users causing the bandwidth problems in the first place. At my school, the heaviest abusers were usually people that didn't have a clue what they were doing. For example, one girl left a file sharing program running overnight... which was set to share her whole collection by default. She was completely surprised when the IT staff called her the next day to scold her for using over 50 GB of bandwidth in a 24 hour period.

Of course, with that in mind... I'm not sure how much the bandwidth charges will help initially given that many of the students don't know they're abusing anything. Just a little file sharing program running in the background...

As a Network Administrator... (1)

EvilTwinSkippy (112490) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452669)

Its about fscking time!

The only thing funnier than people whimpering that bandwidth is a right are the folks who get mad when you don't really feel like giving your DSL line away for free through WIFI.

On my network I have seen some very sad, sorry, and sloppy things go down. I have folks who clog up the network and don't even know it. They just install some p2p software, fill up their hard drive, and leave the software running.

(Cue BOFH) and they are always so surprised so come in on Monday to a reformatted machine...

Throttled bandwidth (4, Interesting)

cjhuitt (466651) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452670)

The university I used to attend (and still have friends at), Iowa State University [iastate.edu] , fairly recently had to look into something like this.

They started off by monitoring bandwidth, and cutting anyone off who had sent more than X amount of data outside the campus network. To get your connection back, you had to go to a certain office, plead your case, etc. And then you were put on a monitored connection.

Now, they have moved to a more tolerant policy. After a certain amount of uploads (I think it's just uploads) in a week, your connection is throttled down to a small amount. That amount is enough for simple things like page-requests for the web, but basically kills things like hosting multiplayer games.

For the curious, they track it based on the MAC address. When you hook a computer up to the network with a MAC address that isn't in their database, the only thing you can do is view a form over the web that requests your ID and password (the same as e-mail for most users). They reset this database once a year to clear out old info. It's certainly possible to spoof to an existing address and get that person's bandwidth limit, but since this is a permanent-on network, that would lead to general badness with the routers not being sure where to send things. At least, that is what the officials say, anyway...

A benefit of doing things this way, that I appreciated, was the ability for them to give you a "permanent" URL to use to access your machine. They mapped the DHCP address they gave you to your MAC, and allowed you to specify a hostname. Then you could access your machine from anywhere with the URL ..iastate.edu. For instance (this doesn't exist anymore): cjhuitt.stures.iastate.edu.

Sneakernet (3, Funny)

acoustiq (543261) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452671)

...CD sales around Cornell should now skyrocket..

You mean, of course, CD-Rs once everyone discovers the sneakernet [ic.ac.uk] .

My school is more ruthless. (3, Informative)

MasterRa (655503) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452685)

At my school, if you download just about anything during the day, or download anything over aboug 5 megs at full speed (about 1.5megabytes/s - its an oc3) you simply get cut off. No questions, and no getting it back.

They're running an ACADEMIC network (5, Insightful)

b.foster (543648) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452693)

Contrary to popular belief (and, yes, contrary to my own usage patterns in college), Universities provide network resources for academic uses. This usually means that they intend for those networks to be used for research (this is often the main reason the institution exists), completing assignments, and communicating with one's professors and peers. These networks are not and never have been intended to be used for entertainment purposes.

Cornell's change is a Good Thing(tm) in that they will encourage private entities to provide metered, regulated internet service to the members of the campus community. In this way, the individual members, not the aggregate, will be responsible for paying for the proportion of resources they use. Because, after all, when everybody agrees to divide the check, most of the people at the table order lobster. It's time for the liberals at universities to drop their Ivory Tower facade and face the fact that human nature is a greedy algorithm.

Multiple Accounts? (1)

mcmonkey (96054) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452697)

Since students often have accounts on several different university machines, I suspect the more rebellious ones will be running an assortment of proxies and redirections to get around the restrictions.
Is this still true? Back in my university days, before the web, when all we had was this thing called the internet, and we were glad to have it! each department was an IT fiefdom. It was possible to get an account on the engineering machines, and the math dept, and the chem dept...if you had classes in those departments, or at least knew a kindly prof.

However that was before they handed you an email addresses with your student ID. I did spend a year at a small private college that did issue every student an email address, and their IT resources were centrally controlled. I presumed individual departments didn't handle student accounts anymore since most students these days have addresses like @school.edu and not so much @math.school.edu.

Of course, we did have the advantage of shopping for the best accounts. IIRC, the math dept had fewer students so each account had 4 or 5 times the disk space as an engineering account.

thats alot (1)

Stinson (564450) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452706)

did anyone really stop to question before complaining about how this is a bad idea (2gig cap)? How often do you download 2gigs of mp3s a month, or atleast share them. And even if you are some big server sharing, you can always just reduce the load a bit, programs like bearshare (etc) have trasfer capping built in. Not like anyones goinna miss that much mp3 traffic anyways

Do students consider network in choosing college? (3, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452716)

It's been a while since I've been to college, but I have to wonder if students factor in network availiability when choosing colleges, and this might actually make some students attend a college other than Cornell.

From the article it seems like the charge above 2GB is probably $1/GB (they actually said a fraction of a cent per additional MB, I'm assuming that fraction is 1/100). That's not too bad so you could still download a few ISO's and not pay a lot, but then again students don't have a lot of money to start with.

At any rate, putting any artificial limits on bandwith for students and professors seems like a poor idea...

How dare you michael! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452727)

I am calling for a boycott of Michael Sims, America's number one enemy in the fight against anti-anti-censorware, until he gives me an apology for his rampant goatse'ing [sethf.com] and [sethf.com] usurping [sethf.com] of the Censorware Project [censorware.net] , my pride and joy.

Frankly, I'm shocked that I am not revered by all of Slashdot. My contributions to the world of anti-censorware research are comparable to the contributions of Jesus Christ to the field of religion. I won more awards from that project than Michael won in his whole damned life.

Do not underestimate me. I will be heard.

Though this message is posted anonymously, I will attest to it and verify it if needed. Other message posted by similar-looking accounts, or not attested, are frauds. - Seth Finklestein, uid#582901

So what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452740)

My university did 200 Terabyte in 2002. This is with email though, which is approx. 10 to 20 percent.

Why all that trouble?

Skyrocketing CD sales? (2, Interesting)

rnturn (11092) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452746)

``At least, according to the RIAA, CD sales around Cornell should now skyrocket''

Why? Is there going to be a sudden rise in the amount of cash in college students' bank accounts when this policy takes effect? Now it has been a while since I've worked in a college town, but I didn't exactly see the local businesses lowering their prices to accomodate the relative lack of buying power that many (if not most) college students have. If anything the prices tended to be higher. It'll be interesting and/or amusing to see the RIAA attempt to place some kind of positive spin on the news that CD sales are still down. Who will they blame next?

This is for combating spam (1)

Disoriented (202908) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452747)

I'm a Cornell grad and I still use my cornell.edu e-mail address. And yes, it gets a sizable amount of spam. Maybe this bandwidth limit is to prevent spammers setting up relays from resnet computers.

Older story on this problem [slashdot.org]

Hey, if it slows the flow of spam, I'm for it.

Real concerns (2, Insightful)

bfree (113420) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452752)

For a university, the only real concern I can imagine they should have is the cost of outgoing net connections so I would wonder what efforts they have undertaken to minimise bandwidth usage? Do they have any decent caching technology in place and if so how will bandwidth be accounted for? For example I get a new laptop and install debian over the network, forget for a moment the fact that I could probably have used an internal mirror and avoided the charging altogether. So am I charged for the 1Gb I downloaded or am I charged nothing because someone else had already primed the files into their cache? If I am the first person to install Slackware 9 am I charged with downloading 1Gb or is that 1Gb diveded by the number of people who subsequently pull it from the cache? It would be a sad state of affairs if it became the responsibility of the students to create the network required to minimse bandwidth use rather than the university themselves. I realise of course that gaming is certainly not going to be cached, but how about multicasting to save on streaming bandwidth? Also they don't appear to be going to any efforts to designate "legal" traffic which is integral to the functioning of the university/faculties/students from "leisure" traffic which is simply about quality of life. All in all I wonder if they aren't simply trying to make more money not save it.

Here's an incentive for mirroring on campus (2, Insightful)

GrenDel Fuego (2558) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452753)

In the article they talk about the bandwith tracking being router based. It sounds like they should be able to track traffic between machines on the network separately from traffic off net.

If so, then this could be a big incentive for people to start creating on campus mirrors for large content that is often retrieved.

Of course, this could be good or bad depending on what is being mirrored. I personally would mirror linux distros, or similiar things, but people could start mirroring movies, music and pirated software as well.

Good to see Cornell implement a sensible policy (4, Insightful)

shalunov (149369) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452757)

I've long advocated usage-based billing as the way to manage campus bandwidth (see slide 6 of `QoS Appliances Considered Harmful' [internet2.edu] presentation at the spring 2002 Internet2 member meeting).

If you think you're entitled to use as much network capacity for as long as you want because you already pay tuition, compare network use to printer use. No-one expects to be able to print 10000 pages a day, day after day, on the department printer for free. This is because it is understood that each page costs something. The marginal cost of transit of each packet on Internet1 is non-zero: universities are billed for traffic.

Internet2 traffic is a different matter: the marginal cost of transit of a packet is zero, and there's plenty of capacity to play with.

TOO SMALL (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5452779)

2 GB is way too small of a monthly limit. You can hit that through through mere slightly above average browsing, not just through mass file transfers.

Excuses (1)

maximillianarturo (655330) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452782)

"I couldn't afford to research the paper, sir..."

A View Fom Hell (5, Interesting)

cyberia625 (464246) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452783)

Resnet at Cornell is, at best, a real shady business.

The reaction from most people around here has been less than enthusiastic. You can easily burn through 2 GB of data in a month just by visiting ESPN.com to check game scores, or visiting any other media-heavy site. They claim it's better than the alternative (Roadrunner cable) and say that we're given options. Actually, we're not given any option if we live in the dorms. We are not allowed to have a cable internet connection installed, though most of the rooms have a cable jack installed already. Hell, we don't even get basic cable TV for free (little dongle on the cable wire apparently blocks cable...though, we did fix that problem early on in the year ;) ). It's really disappointing to see how much they've changed things in the past couple years. I'm happy to be moving off campus next year.

We actually had wireless access points in some of the dorms (in the common areas like lounges and study lounges). They got pulled this year due to "lack of funding". It was great, some anonymous donor supplied the money for Cornell to set up wireless nodes all around campus. And now they took it away.

As if Ithaca NY didn't suck enough, now they're trying to limit our contact with civilization. Fantastic.

Poor idea for poor students (1)

mrtroy (640746) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452785)

As a student, I know that I dont have much money in the bank. So, that being said, my school has a great strategy for dealing with bandwidth useage!

If you go over a certain amount, ours being 500meg in 10 days or less, you get knocked down to a lower bandwidth region, and you can get at max 2k/sec. You can still view webpages and everything, just not download movies/etc.

This is annoying at times...however when you are in the fast bandwidth region, the speed jumped up considerably after, and internet access in general is much better when its super fast.

Even if I wanted to do some casual downloading, it was not a problem as long as I did not exceed my limit, and intranet bandwidth was not included.

It is a great idea, way better than the pay for more (for students).

From a Cornell Alum... (4, Interesting)

BTWR (540147) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452789)

I went to Cornell ('01) and one thing that was VERY popular were entire bootleg movies on the network neighborhoods (~650 megs each). Those would get passed around so quickly or simply viewed over the connection. My friend even got busted for having like 40 gigs of movies he was sharing with Cornell kids and FTP.

However, I don't see Cornell's point since we were CHARGED for our internet usage, and this charge was something that was comparable, if not higher, than simply getting off the dorm LAN and splitting a cable modem with your roommate(s). Then again, if Cornell only makes it a nominal fee (more of a symbolic fine), I can see them having a claim. It'll be interesting to see how it develops.

That's friggen hilarious. (1)

Geekwad (309774) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452790)

My school technically has a 750MB/24hrs limit but I just plugged in an extra two nics and now it's not uncommon for me to do more than 2GB a DAY.

Holy crap. How can people satisfy all their pr0n and warez needs at Cornell with a mere 2GB per month?

First the wrong admissions... (1)

joesao (466680) | more than 11 years ago | (#5452801)

...and now this. So they've made it easier to get into school, but once you do, slap your wrist for setting up a pr0n server!

I wonder if this has anything to do with students being used as relay for spam. I know cornell doesn't implement any sort of spam filtering -- at least not for alums using their email server for forwarding.
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